2017 General Election Thread

[SaigonSaddler]

Had to google it ... :D



Wonder if someone can help him filling up her tank?

[Cowshed]

Robert Joyce, a tax expert from the Institute for Fiscal Studies was talking about raising taxes for high earners.

If you have somebody currently paying the 45p tax rate, you raise that to 50p and there is no change in behaviour then the excequer gains an extra 5p in the pound.

But if they decide to try to reduce their tax bill by saving more into their pensions, for example, or indeed decide to work fewer hours, then you lose 45p in the pound as well as some National Insurance.

So you only need one person in 10 to change their behaviour and you don't make any money from raising the tax.

Any more than 1 in 10 and the tax income actually falls.

Not to mention the enterprise investment schemes and venture capital trusts that allow tax to be reclaimed no one pays these taxes it is all uncosted and will be borrowed

[Exile]

Oh dear.
And this clown wants to run this country but can't work out costs of his own pledges.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40090520

Yes, easy to bag Labour for not remembering off the top of their heads at every occasion, but how about the Tories?

What will their manifesto cost you? You don't know because they've not costed anything. Ominous...

[PT]

Oh dear.
And this clown wants to run this country but can't work out costs of his own pledges.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40090520

Yes, easy to bag Labour for not remembering off the top of their heads at every occasion, but how about the Tories?

What will their manifesto cost you? You don't know because they've not costed anything. Ominous...

You're right Exile but it is honestly a choice between a right couple of showers.

Labour have had a go at costing it but it's all over the shop. It is basically assuming that the top 5% who currently pay 50% of total tax revenue will just suck up another increase and not change their behaviour. It assumes that business can take a hike in corporation tax, minimum wage and give out extra holidays with no impact.

We love to pick teams and stick with them, the choice this time is clear but shocking. The weak and wobbly Tories who don't care or the financially illiterate Socialists who can't count. Don't trust either mob to be honest. And the tartan clad National Socialists have launched their manifesto today. Utter Pish.

[Cully]

Oh dear.
And this clown wants to run this country but can't work out costs of his own pledges.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40090520

Yes, easy to bag Labour for not remembering off the top of their heads at every occasion, but how about the Tories?

What will their manifesto cost you? You don't know because they've not costed anything. Ominous...

I don't blame Corbyn for being a bit of a thicko, if he can't remember or doesn't know he can always make something up like Dianne Abbott who regularly forgets the odd manifesto costing such as the cost of employing 10,000 police officers just like John Mc Donnell who can't remember the total cost of Labours manifesto pledges but said it was an affordable sum unlike his colleague Angela Rayner, labour foghorn, who regular makes up uncosted pledges which she says 'have yet to be costed.'
To be honest I don't really care that much about your unrepresentative and out of touch retched Labour Party but I can see you're desperate for a few costings so why don't you make some up for them, it won't matter what ever you cook up because nobody in this country takes them seriously.
On a positive note, the shadow cabinet are the weirdest bunch of characters I have witnessed in my lifetime, no mean achievement :D

[SaigonSaddler]

Oh dear.
And this clown wants to run this country but can't work out costs of his own pledges.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40090520

Yes, easy to bag Labour for not remembering off the top of their heads at every occasion, but how about the Tories?

What will their manifesto cost you? You don't know because they've not costed anything. Ominous...

I don't blame Corbyn for being a bit of a thicko, if he can't remember or doesn't know he can always make something up like Dianne Abbott who regularly forgets the odd manifesto costing such as the cost of employing 10,000 police officers just like John Mc Donnell who can't remember the total cost of Labours manifesto pledges but said it was an affordable sum unlike his colleague Angela Rayner, labour foghorn, who regular makes up uncosted pledges which she says 'have yet to be costed.'
To be honest I don't really care that much about your unrepresentative and out of touch retched Labour Party but I can see you're desperate for a few costings so why don't you make some up for them, it won't matter what ever you cook up because nobody in this country takes them seriously.
On a positive note, the shadow cabinet are the weirdest bunch of characters I have witnessed in my lifetime, no mean achievement :D

This puts a Shakespearian tragedy to shame! :D :D :D

It's provided some ammo for the starving dimwit self-servative press and associated simpering acolytes to latch onto, and how they've milked it, but it's nothing near the seismic magnitude that they're trying to desperately make out. Especially so when it's actually in the costed manifesto anyway (imagine May having one of those).

Reading their claims and even this above, it sounds like he's butchered a child live on air, not forgotten the exact cost of providing money for childcare.

He should have spooned out some of the vacuous blandishments that May seems to specialise in, but that's what you get if you actually want to provide accuracy and aren't so accommodated to dispensing falsehoods. Nice hamming up though. :D :wink:

[Exile]

Speaking of muddling numbers, here's the chancellor in a major gaffe, losing £20,000,000,000 in a live interview. Funnily enough it didn't get major media coverage...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 42006.html

...and then there's the scrapping of school lunches, with breakfast budgeted at 7p per child instead...

http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/24/tory-free ... m-6658186/

When they do have figures, they don't add up. Makes you wonder about the rest of it.

[SaigonSaddler]

Speaking of muddling numbers, here's the chancellor in a major gaffe, losing £20,000,000,000 in a live interview. Funnily enough it didn't get major media coverage...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 42006.html

...and then there's the scrapping of school lunches, with breakfast budgeted at 7p per child instead...

http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/24/tory-free ... m-6658186/

When they do have figures, they don't add up. Makes you wonder about the rest of it.

The paradox is in how May and chums sprinkle glitter on what is the poisonous slime of their own deceitful effluent.

It's like a vile abscess that will only burst after people have voted, hoping for the best yet perched on the precipice of their own doom. :x

[Guest]

It could be a hung parliament.



https://www-independent-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/c/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-majority-poll-election-2017-latest-labour-hung-parliament-seats-theresa-may-conservatives-a7764271.html?amp

Best of both worlds? :mrgreen:

(That picture may be the reason for the narrowing of the polls.)

[saddlerken]

Trust the polls or the bookies?

https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/most-seats

[Cully]

Speaking of muddling numbers, here's the chancellor in a major gaffe, losing £20,000,000,000 in a live interview. Funnily enough it didn't get major media coverage...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 42006.html

...and then there's the scrapping of school lunches, with breakfast budgeted at 7p per child instead...

http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/24/tory-free ... m-6658186/

When they do have figures, they don't add up. Makes you wonder about the rest of it.

The paradox is in how May and chums sprinkle glitter on what is the poisonous slime of their own deceitful effluent.

It's like a vile abscess that will only burst after people have voted, hoping for the best yet perched on the precipice of their own doom. :x

Good use of the English language there Saigon, I'll have to give you an 'A' for descriptive writing, I was gripped until the very last word but then I remembered your lavish praise for Corbyn after his "statesman like performance" on tv when you raised the bar for his god like status by declaring rather generously that he was "less of an imbecile than you previously thought". I've just checked my online synonyms thesaurus and you could have used halfwit or simpleton which in my opinion would have been kinder. :D
Have you ever thought of pursuing a career as an English teacher?

[SaigonSaddler]

Speaking of muddling numbers, here's the chancellor in a major gaffe, losing £20,000,000,000 in a live interview. Funnily enough it didn't get major media coverage...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 42006.html

...and then there's the scrapping of school lunches, with breakfast budgeted at 7p per child instead...

http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/24/tory-free ... m-6658186/

When they do have figures, they don't add up. Makes you wonder about the rest of it.

The paradox is in how May and chums sprinkle glitter on what is the poisonous slime of their own deceitful effluent.

It's like a vile abscess that will only burst after people have voted, hoping for the best yet perched on the precipice of their own doom. :x

Good use of the English language there Saigon, I'll have to give you an 'A' for descriptive writing, I was gripped until the very last word but then I remembered your lavish praise for Corbyn after his "statesman like performance" on tv when you raised the bar for his god like status by declaring rather generously that he was "less of an imbecile than you previously thought". I've just checked my online synonyms thesaurus and you could have used halfwit or simpleton which in my opinion would have been kinder. :D
Have you ever thought of pursuing a career as an English teacher?

:D

My initial submission of bumbling beardy fool just didn't sit right on the page.

I did think of that career but realised that I might as well live in a toilet in Denmark for a better pension and health care.

:D :wink:

[SaigonSaddler]

Trust the polls or the bookies?

https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/most-seats

The polls Ken, cos they're always so accurate! :D :wink:

Not bad to come down from 100/1 outsiders to 7/1 and even 6/1 though.
Wonder if May has a few quid on Labour and is trying to throw it deliberately. :wink:

[Exile]

Imagine Labour had been in power since 2010, and Corbyn had risen through the ranks to Home Secretary, then party leader on the back of a desperate campaign promise to hold a referendum on the EU, that he didn't agree with but now has to push through despite his principles being on the other side of the debate.

During this time, he'd have been responsible for:

- slashing 20,000 police jobs (conveniently taking us back to the 70s in terms of police numbers)
- decimating the UK Border Agency budget, ensuring millions annually came through UK ports and airports without proper checks
- 'Losing' files on a parliamentary paedophile ring
- introducing a dementia tax in his manifesto
- cutting 30% off disability benefits, while outsourcing the cuts to a private company that costs more than the savings it has made
- signing an arms deal with an Arab nation that openly supports Islamic extremism and terrorists
- cutting free school meals
- failing to properly fund the NHS
- stripping the armed forces of 20,000 soldiers, 8,500 airmen and 5,500 naval staff
- stopping the bursary for trainee nurses
- going against staff number recommendations and refused pay rises for nurses, doctors, firefighters, armed forces, civil service
- telling poor people that getting a job is a way out of poverty, ignoring the fact that many poor are in vulnerbale jobs working zero hour contracts with no security of pay
- overseeing a huge increase in the number of citizens using food banks

Now imagine that during this time he's been telling everyone that the cuts are necessary, and that you're all in it together.

Also during this time every single financial target his government set has been missed, and debt has more than doubled.

Then along comes an election he called, after promising not to call one, and he produces an uncosted manifesto full of vacuous ephemera, no substance, and tells you he's strong and stable.

Q1 - What do you think the media would say about that?
Q2 - Why aren't they saying it about May and the tories?

Nudge...

[Super Gabor]

Just some reflections on what is probably the most bizarre run up to a GE and with the poorest calibre of politicians I can recall in my life of voting.

The PM called it at at time when the Tories had a 15% to 20% lead over Labour, who had a Leader with the worst ratings of any leader in Labour's history and was supported by a rag-tag front bench (aside from the relatively impressive Kier Starmer) of what was left of the Labour MPs willing to work with the Momentum style agenda. (I will come onto the Tory front bench in a moment). She should have sat at home for 6 weeks, released a 2 page manifesto saying "more of the same" and she'd have probably landed a decent majority. :wink:

We had solid, lifelong Labour supporters saying they couldn't vote for Corbyn and thought Mrs May seemed a decent woman and would be best to deliver a better Brexit deal. How hard would it be to balls that up? Well, the go-to-man to secure election victories, Lynton Crosby, came up with the "strong and stable" slogan....repeat ad infinitum.... (£500K, 3 words, 6 weeks work - not a bad earner that) and the Tories have appeared to lock away the majority of their own front bench (unless I have missed it, not seen a peep from Liz Truss, Justine Greening, Jeremy Hunt, Chris Grayling, Liam UKIP Fox, Savid Javed) and they occasionally release Boris, Fallon, Hammond and Rudd to front up their campaign. Most of us who follow politics, have noted for some time that there was not much strength in depth, so they over-played the Theresa May card.

But what appears to have happened is that Mrs May, who appeared to have taken on the PM mantle fairly effortlessly for the past 8 or 9 months, has come across as rather awkward, gets a bit flustered, is not great at thinking on her feet, and has been programmed to repeat slogans under Crosby instructions which got pretty tiresome after a few days let alone weeks and the more the public have seen, the less they are convinced. David Cameron - for all his faults - would have walked all over this campaign with confidence and re-assurance.

The more the public have seen of Comrade Corbyn, the more they appear to have warmed to him, or at least, their barriers of mistrust have begun to be slowly chivvied away at. What I do think is that Corbyn has pretty much gone out there and been himself and campaigned without much pre-programming from party strategists, whereas May has campaigned in a style fashioned by an election machine that only serves to make her appear unnatural and awkward. Remember John Major and his soap box? Not a PM exuding too much in the personality stakes but Major came across pretty well getting up on a soap box, talking to real people and not shying away from debate. I do think the British public respect that approach more than what the Tory machine thinks is a vote winning strategy.

It is a pity that she has not elaborated on the sentiment of the speech she made when entering No.10 which was pretty powerful stuff and signalled a shift to the left for the Tories, to the centre-ground. Beyond "who will be the best PM to negotiate a good Brexit deal" she has much more to say about the importance of encouraging a strong environment for business growth, job creation and linking growth to areas of deprivation (amongst other issues) yet I don't think I have heard much about this beyond the usual slogans.

With the dark clouds of Brexit hanging over our heads, any British Govt. is going to need a vibrant business community more than ever over the coming years. Labour's manifesto looks like no-one with any business acumen has been near it. In fact it has over 100 pledges provided directly by trade unions yet appears to have nothing that would suggest input or soundings have been gleaned from the likes of FSB, IoD or CBI or indeed anyone who has set up and run a business. There are massive assumptions in the "tax take" that McDonnell feels he can get from businesses to pay for his enormous wish-list. Yet, corp tax take has increased since 2010 as a result of corp taxes being lowered. As has been mentioned by others, when tax rates go up, behaviours change, and there does appear to be a concept of a "sweet spot" which maximises tax take. Simply raising the rate doesn't necessarily give you what you expect and its impact is more likely to be negative on business investment. Whilst I do agree with the £10/hr minimum wage Labour suggest, they are looking to squeeze businesses - the very ones we need to flourish, to invest, to grow and to create good jobs. If I was in the PM's shoes I would be focusing on stuff like this over the next week.

[Optimistic]

Imagine Labour had been in power since 2010, and Corbyn had risen through the ranks to Home Secretary, then party leader on the back of a desperate campaign promise to hold a referendum on the EU, that he didn't agree with but now has to push through despite his principles being on the other side of the debate.

During this time, he'd have been responsible for:

- slashing 20,000 police jobs (conveniently taking us back to the 70s in terms of police numbers)
- decimating the UK Border Agency budget, ensuring millions annually came through UK ports and airports without proper checks
- 'Losing' files on a parliamentary paedophile ring
- introducing a dementia tax in his manifesto
- cutting 30% off disability benefits, while outsourcing the cuts to a private company that costs more than the savings it has made
- signing an arms deal with an Arab nation that openly supports Islamic extremism and terrorists
- cutting free school meals
- failing to properly fund the NHS
- stripping the armed forces of 20,000 soldiers, 8,500 airmen and 5,500 naval staff
- stopping the bursary for trainee nurses
- going against staff number recommendations and refused pay rises for nurses, doctors, firefighters, armed forces, civil service
- telling poor people that getting a job is a way out of poverty, ignoring the fact that many poor are in vulnerbale jobs working zero hour contracts with no security of pay
- overseeing a huge increase in the number of citizens using food banks

Now imagine that during this time he's been telling everyone that the cuts are necessary, and that you're all in it together.

Also during this time every single financial target his government set has been missed, and debt has more than doubled.

Then along comes an election he called, after promising not to call one, and he produces an uncosted manifesto full of vacuous ephemera, no substance, and tells you he's strong and stable.

Q1 - What do you think the media would say about that?
Q2 - Why aren't they saying it about May and the tories?

Nudge...

But Labour have not been in power since 2010 for the very reasons you mention.

They had already brought the country to its knees which is partially the reason for all the cuts and now they plan to spend more money which we have not got which makes no sense at all. They can't even get the sums right in the public glare, what will they be like behind closed doors. Most of the issues which people complain about started under a Labour government anyway.

In answer to your questions the media say what they want and don't let the facts get in the way. But does that make the Tories a worse option than Labour, never in a million years. What we need at the moment in the UK is a strong government with a large majority and the only way we will get that is with the Tories. Then we need them to understand what real people want and need and I do think we are getting there.

[SaigonSaddler]

Then we need them to understand what real people want and need and I do think we are getting there.

Reads like the usual 'Labour's to blame for everything' crib sheet content (last in power 2010 as you say ... but still to blame for everything) until your final sentence.

The self-servatives have zero interest in anything 'the people want'.
The people want an NHS, support for a faltering education system, some clarity on how much the state will take if they go into care, and any kind of Brexit plan that is more ambitious than 'being bloody difficult'. Not persistently performing handbrake U-turns would be a start.

You're hoping that suddenly they will respond with empathy with real people trying to reason with them? :?:

No chance.

[Guest]

Theresa May speaks ...

[SaigonSaddler]

Theresa May speaks ...

COWARD.

Now she's bottled having a face to face debate.

[Exile]

[SaigonSaddler]

This is an example of strong and stable?

Self-servatives got ripped a new one tonight, and May wasn't anywhere to be found.

Not AWOL, MAYWOL.

[PT]

This is an example of strong and stable?

Self-servatives got ripped a new one tonight, and May wasn't anywhere to be found.

Not AWOL, MAYWOL.

I completely agree. Amber Rudd did pretty well given her very recent bereavement and in that context the five others (let's not even count Nutty) piling into her was unseemly at times.

But the bigger disgrace is the fact that her boss made her go through this rather than facing it herself. Forget the figures, numbers etc, this has blown a complete hole in the "strong and stable" guff. May is in hiding whilst putting her workmate through that. Awful.

I'm beginning to think that Brexit is so fraught with pitfalls that the Tories are doing a collective Boris/Nigel and actually throwing an election so that they can be wise from the sidelines rather than having to carry it through. There can be no other explanation for their pitiful campaign.

[Cowshed]

A free party political broadcast for the tories more like

It was important that Corbyn was there to answer before millions the question of

How many

Answer

Floodgates open

The summer Mediterranean crossings are preparing for the Corbyn thumbs up on June 9th

Just keep on asking him

How many

[yoda]

May is finished!.......



....... June has begun.

[Guest]

A free party political broadcast for the tories more like

It was important that Corbyn was there to answer before millions the question of

How many

Answer

Floodgates open

The summer Mediterranean crossings are preparing for the Corbyn thumbs up on June 9th

Just keep on asking him

How many

It looks like you think Corbyn will be the next PM. :mrgreen:

[Cowshed]

This is an example of strong and stable?

Self-servatives got ripped a new one tonight, and May wasn't anywhere to be found.

Not AWOL, MAYWOL.

I completely agree. Amber Rudd did pretty well given her very recent bereavement and in that context the five others (let's not even count Nutty) piling into her was unseemly at times.

But the bigger disgrace is the fact that her boss made her go through this rather than facing it herself. Forget the figures, numbers etc, this has blown a complete hole in the "strong and stable" guff. May is in hiding whilst putting her workmate through that. Awful.

[size=150]I'm beginning to think that Brexit is so fraught with pitfalls that the Tories are doing a collective Boris/Nigel and actually throwing an election so that they can be wise from the sidelines rather than having to carry it through. There can be no other explanation for their pitiful campaign.[/quote]

[/size]
baldrick - I have a plan sir

captain blackadder- really baldrick a cunning and subtle one

baldrick -yes sir

captain blackadder - as cunning as a fox who's just been appointed professor of cunning at Oxford university?

baldrick -yes sir

[NEWPORT SADDLERS DAD]

Speaking of muddling numbers, here's the chancellor in a major gaffe, losing £20,000,000,000 in a live interview. Funnily enough it didn't get major media coverage...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 42006.html

...and then there's the scrapping of school lunches, with breakfast budgeted at 7p per child instead...

http://metro.co.uk/2017/05/24/tory-free ... m-6658186/

When they do have figures, they don't add up. Makes you wonder about the rest of it.

Can you not see that this 7p per meal is part of the Tory's plan to beat child obesity. :roll: :roll:

[saddla]

very interesting read from the Institute of fiscal studies:

Neither Conservatives nor Labour are properly spelling out consequences of their policy proposals

https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/9259

They're all lying to us :shock:

[Cowshed]

very interesting read from the Institute of fiscal studies:

Neither Conservatives nor Labour are properly spelling out consequences of their policy proposals

https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/9259

They're all lying to us :shock:

Thanks saddla

Balanced report and independent

Interesting point made about tax

Corbyns taxes will affect all of our hard earned pensions as I have been saying

Not just the high net worth pensions but all private personal pensions so if you have started paying into a company group personal pension as part of the workplace pension rules recently introduced - bad luck

Let's be very clear here- he is not being a Robin Hood

He is not taking from the rich to give to the poor

When you look into it he is losing money for the people with very little pension savings and giving it to the middle and upper classes who can afford uni fees , don't need fuel allowance and can easily manage with state pension that still goes up with the cost of living.

[Cowshed]

It's probably fair to say you were not aware that her dad had died a few days ago