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SOTV

Threads that have run on UpTheSaddlers that might or might not be worth keeping...
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Willenhall Saddler
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Re: SOTV

Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:00 am

Exile wrote:Bonser's loans to the club currently stand at £1.73 million. This money has carried the club through a very difficult post-ITV Digital period (admittedly with plenty wasted by Merson) and enabled it to play its way out of the fourth division. Currently we're cutting our cloth according to our pocket rather than investing any more and this is apparent in the wages we pay and the team fielded on the pitch. Would you want these loans to increase to over £2.5 million just to try and tempt you back? Even if you have as many as 500 like-minded mates, your return to watch the club wouldn't make a dent in the income required to service that debt were Bonser to call it in so forget about it.

A much better boost to the budget would be all the stayaways actually turning up and watching the club they purportedly love instead of killing it with their kindness.

Meanwhile the ambition is still there, but it's a slimmed-down ambition, an ambition to survive in the face of adversity, to triumph against the odds and to succeed against better-funded rivals. Unfortunately some fans seem to believe we're a big club slumming it in league one, rather than a small club championing itself a league above where it currently belongs. The more people see this, the better. The investment you want has been invisible - we have a category 3 EPPP academy which will hopefully enable us to offer more yungsters a better chance of a footballing future at Walsall, and this will underpin our future, which the directors are being realistic about - laying the groundwork for advancement through a systematic and professional development structure instead of throwing money at a problem.

I'm looking forward to the next few seasons - it may be three steps forward, two steps back stuff, but I believe the club is actually doing something right instead of muddling along for the first time in years.

Finally, to keep the thread on track, I sincerely hope Villa get relegated. Twice. Then go bust.


You can't say that! You'll have Mr Villa fan Sound Out (we should all want the other Midlands clubs to do well because it's healthy) berating you! It's healthy for them yeah, the better they do, the more fans they would pull in and we would get less than we do now :roll:

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Re: SOTV

Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:13 am

King Crimson wrote:Great post, Exile.

Staying away from the club you love because of the owner you hate hurts the club you love whilst having no impact on the owner you hate.

It's at best ill-conceived and at worst a badge of convenience for the onset of apathy.

I think it was the Buddha who said that holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. Knew what he was talking about, that fella.

And whilst I'm getting all philosophical, try this:
'Anger is an acid that does more damage to the vessel in which it is stored than anything on which it is poured.' Similar sentiment, but from Mark Twain. Does anyone think Bonser, or Gilman, or Whalley, or Scott Dann's agent, or the directors of ITV Digital, or David Dein and the others who peddled the notion of the Premiership at the expense of everyone else, etc. lose a nanosecond of sleep over where we find ourselves?

Where we find ourselves is not where we'd hope to be, but nor is it where some of our peer clubs are. I'll finish on another quotation that I think sums my views up: life isn't about waiting for the storms to pass but about learning to dance in the rain.

Portsmouth at home on a Friday night, on the back of two home wins, friends for a fiver - sounds like a decent plan to me.


I find the whole stayaway situation depressing, and sad. As has been said many times, it isn't hurting the man it is apparently aimed at, but it is hurting our football club, and the team we have on the pitch. Looking beyond that though, I personally find it difficult to understand how you come to a decision like this. I get that people may not want to go to watch Walsall anymore, it's not cheap (although we do a decent job of keeping it reasonably priced) and not always value for money what we have watched on the pitch. I to at certain times have come out of games and made rash statements like "I'm not going again" My heart drags me back there though. I haven't been following Walsall as long as some of our stayaways, but to me personally I am so attached emotionally to Walsall Football Club, they are part of my family. Even if I wanted to stop going, I just can't do it. I live in hope Walsall Football Club has a future, so I can take my kids, and make wonderful memories with them, like I have with my Dad. If you love something/someone, you don't turn your back on it, and I love Walsall Football Club.

Why should Bonser, or anyone else stop me going to watch Walsall? I was there long before he arrived, and I am hopeful (If not convinced) that there will still be a club to follow once he has gone. I'd have far more respect for fans, if they just said they have lost the bug, have got out of the habit, think it's a waste of money, found better things to do, rather than hide behind some notion that they are doing it for the good of the club, to save us from our demon.

I can't go tonight, it is straight choice out of having my Daughter come to stay, or going to the match, the kids always win, and I'm not ashamed to say that. I probably go to 20 games a season now instead of the 46 I used to do, I make that decision because it fits in with my life, not because I think I am doing one over Jeff Bonser.

I understand what Geoff is saying in some respects, we need a better team to attract more fans back, and they would come back if we were doing well, regardless of who the owner is, but we do need a bit more money for the playing side of things to have a better team. Vicious circle, we are going to have to build a team and be patient, hope that we continue to bring through some good young players that bear fruit for us. We've played some nice football this season, had some great games, and I do believe with a bit more luck and some better decisions from our young manager, we could have had a really good season this season, if he gets things right in the summer, next season could be better, lets hope so, then maybe we can gradually get back a few more through the gates, and start to end this cycle.

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King Crimson
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Re: SOTV

Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:50 am

Amen, brother.

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SheffieldSaddler
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Re: SOTV

Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:20 am

Magic Man Fan wrote:
geoffwhiting wrote:
Fray Bentos is God! wrote:
chestersaddler wrote:What a load of old betties, Geoff, if you don't mind me saying :D


I agree. Even taking the other Midland clubs out of the equation, the amount of glory hunters from Walsall is sickening.

If you turned those into Walsall fans, you'd see five figure crowds at least.


If, if, if, if ?? What a small word with such a big impact. So FBIG, how would you propose to turn these people into Walsall fans then?


How about their parents give their kids a sense of local pride? Make them realise they should be proud of where they're from, and that they can't always have what they want in life. Kids get given everything they want these days, and that includes supporting whichever team is top of the Premier League that day. And people wonder why they all grow up to be spoilt, workshy wuckfits. I'd suggest that kids who support Walsall, grow up to be much more rounded individuals than glory hunting brats. In fact all glory hunters suffer from a lack of intelligence, which is why most of them are pot noodle eating, blue pop drinking scrubbers.


Pride is defined as "the achievements of those with whom one is associated".
With all due respect, what achievements and more importantly ambition are Walsall FC showing these kids?
That is one of the main reasons they turn to other clubs, end of.

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Aldridge_saddler
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Re: SOTV

Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:34 am

SheffieldSaddler wrote:Pride is defined as "the achievements of those with whom one is associated".
With all due respect, what achievements and more importantly ambition are Walsall FC showing these kids?
That is one of the main reasons they turn to other clubs, end of.


Here are a few;

- Do not live beyond your means.
- Aim high but do not hamstring yourself trying to get there.
- Patience is a virtue.
- Villa are a bunch of tossers.

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King Crimson
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Re: SOTV

Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:15 pm

SheffieldSaddler wrote:
Magic Man Fan wrote:
geoffwhiting wrote:
Fray Bentos is God! wrote:
chestersaddler wrote:What a load of old betties, Geoff, if you don't mind me saying :D


I agree. Even taking the other Midland clubs out of the equation, the amount of glory hunters from Walsall is sickening.

If you turned those into Walsall fans, you'd see five figure crowds at least.


If, if, if, if ?? What a small word with such a big impact. So FBIG, how would you propose to turn these people into Walsall fans then?


How about their parents give their kids a sense of local pride? Make them realise they should be proud of where they're from, and that they can't always have what they want in life. Kids get given everything they want these days, and that includes supporting whichever team is top of the Premier League that day. And people wonder why they all grow up to be spoilt, workshy wuckfits. I'd suggest that kids who support Walsall, grow up to be much more rounded individuals than glory hunting brats. In fact all glory hunters suffer from a lack of intelligence, which is why most of them are pot noodle eating, blue pop drinking scrubbers.


Pride is defined as "the achievements of those with whom one is associated".
With all due respect, what achievements and more importantly ambition are Walsall FC showing these kids?
That is one of the main reasons they turn to other clubs, end of.

But any association with other clubs on the basis of their greater achievements is a fabrication, and consequently 'pride' is equally hollow.

Many kids will learn this the hard way.

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Re: SOTV

Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:16 pm

Aldridge_saddler wrote:
SheffieldSaddler wrote:Pride is defined as "the achievements of those with whom one is associated".
With all due respect, what achievements and more importantly ambition are Walsall FC showing these kids?
That is one of the main reasons they turn to other clubs, end of.


Here are a few;

- Do not live beyond your means.
- Aim high but do not hamstring yourself trying to get there.
- Patience is a virtue.
- Villa are a bunch of tossers.


:lol:

One really nice thing about this board (IMHO) is that we can disagree, but still appreciate the humour of those with opposite views!

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Re: SOTV

Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:54 pm

chestersaddler wrote:
geoffwhiting wrote:I have to say I find it amazing that the members of a message board that seem to hate, almost to a man, everything that Chelsea Football Club stands for, can actually delight in them hammering and humiliating a team from our patch.

London vs West Midlands, London won by a country mile, and being West Midlands born and bred, I honestly don't find that the slightest bit funny myself. Just sad, and I can feel the embarrassment for Midlands football.


The only reason Chelsea has so much air time on here is because the site has a Chelsea loving troll. If that was not the case they would get no more of a mention than the other "big" clubs.

Villa, West Brom and Wolves deprive us of more supporters than Chelsea ever will, so should be despised. I couldn't care less that it was Chelsea that beat them, just that somebody put 8 past them :D Even sweeter that they have that nob as a manager too.

Hope they are relegated


I would like to see Wolves, Villa, Brum, West Brom and even Shrewsbury in the Championship - along with US! Tasty! Four excellent local Derbies to look forward to. Of course, Swansea and Cardiff would have to be there for me (and Chester and Welshie). I might have a bet on it happening(£1 wins a few million, eh? :lol: ).
I could also throw in Port Vale, the Nottinghams, Derby, Leicester and Stoke along with a pair of Bristols (for us South Wales Exiles again) but I don't want to stretch the odds too far :lol: :lol:

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Re: SOTV

Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:15 pm

Exile wrote:Blow me.

The club's commitment is there for all to see, chariman aside, and he's just a figurehead - the passion's in the future, with Mole, Gamble et al, not Bonser and Whalley. The landlord is a different kettle of fish entirely, but, and here's the key point that you seem to have failed to grasp totally, we can't change the past.

We can help shape the future, and that's what being a fan is all about. I wish we'd never almost gone broke thanks to Ramsden (and sundtry predecessors), wish that GMI, Denglen and Davenmanor hadn't totally kippered us, wish that there'd been an alternative to Bonser, and desperately wish that Bonser had at least tried to keep the land with the club instead of securing his own lucrative future through it (according to him he was the only decent deal on the table besides developers although I don't recall much public effort to find an alternative at the time) but that's what happened in the past. Here's another key point: Staying away makes not the blindest bit of difference to our owner, but it does make a large difference to what the football club can offer.

By the way, has it occurred to you that the younger fans coming to matches weren't even born when the Bescot move and the change in ownership came about? They still come along, hoping, like we did at their age, for a decent match, some great 'terrace' craic, a good cup run and to go home happy. Until you can reconcile yourself with the present you're stuck in a past that we cannot ever change.

Look forward not back, or are you this bitter about every decision you never made in your life? No doubt your time is too valuable to rue those things that might have made a difference, but hey, you've done well, you're heading into the busy period, and you'll have billed a lot of people for your precious time, which is much easier than justifying your (in my opinion) untenable position.

Sorry, stayaways make me angry.


No need to say sorry Exile, people who keep giving Bonser money and watch him bank an excessive proportion of it into his pension scheme could make ME angry, but it's their right, just as my rights are mine. We must all do as we think best. It's no-one else's choice but our own, so "sorry" isn't necessary for that, from either or any of us.

I appreciate your point of view and for putting it over so well, and I know that in the short term the easiest thing is to give the club your money and keep them ticking along "for the love of the club and because we're fans", while JB takes his massive wedge without batting an eyelid. I went along with that for long enough, many many years in fact, and for much of that time without even bothering or thinking about the background to what was going on. Maybe if it wasn't for my involvement with this site since the late 1990s, and the many detailed and searching questions asked and discussions that go on here, I may never have become interested at all in the politics and the finances of the club, my extreme dis-satisfaction at our state of affairs may never have arisen, and maybe I'd still be trolling down to the Banks's for every home match as before, blissfully unaware and uncaring about how my club was being "raped".

Unfortunately, rightly or wrongly depending on your point of view, it DID get to me, which is why I became a stayaway and why we have had so many discussions about it over the last 5 years.

While most people seem to see it as the responsibility of the fans to cough up the cash to keep the club going, maybe it's because I am an accountant that I look on this from the opposite direction. The businesses I deal with can't wait until customers come along asking for their products and services, they have to promote themselves, present good desirable products and services that attract the buyers, convince them they are good value for money, and sell themselves to those customers. If they fulfil their customers' hopes, wishes and aspirations, they'll have loyal customers, but it won't end there, they have to keep on providing those products and services and keeping those customers happy, and if the word is good and it gets around, they'll hope and expect to acquire more and more of them.

I don't make much of a distinction between that business model and Walsall FC, though I appreciate that lots of people do, and I completely understand that football clubs are of a different nature and feelings and loyalties come into it that just don't exist anwhere else. But my mind reduces it to that argument over quality and service, and I don't think we are getting that, and haven't for quite a few years, due to lack of investment on the pitch. I see that lack of investment as a management problem, whereby it is up to the owner(s) to invest and present a desirable product to the customers and, perhaps more importantly, to the lost and potential new customers, to kickstart the building/re-building of the customer/fan base.

You seem to suggest that I am somehow dwelling in the past, but no, not at all, you miss the point. I am looking at what can and needs to be done for the future, to build the club and set it on the right track. That needs investment at a level that another 200 - 300, even 500 fans can't and won't provide in the short term. The past does indeed suggest that JB won't go down the right route, but that does not make the need and the argument any less valid, and it is, I agree, the future that is what's important, and I see investment as the beginnings of that.

I think we both know most of the facts and the problems, but we come at them from opposite viewpoints. I don't say you're wrong, it's right for you and that's absolutely fair enough and is why I never have and never would discourage people from going to matches, supporting the club and the team, and enjoying themselves in the process. But neither am I wrong, because this is how it is for me, and that's what I have to act upon unless someone convinces me otherwise, but that hasn't come near to happening yet.

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King Crimson
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Re: SOTV

Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:47 pm

In the current set-up, the only way Bonser won't get his money is if and when WFC are liquidated.

This conscientious objection is no more noble than refusing to take up arms to protect one's own family from invading hordes.

In short, sometimes the price of a single set of principles is too high to offset other things we hold dear.

That's how I see it in any case. However, we are all entitled to our views.

Back on topic, I have no strong feelings towards Villa, not hailing from these parts. But anything that takes potential support from WFC (including the success of other local clubs) shouldn't be welcomed.

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Re: SOTV

Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:40 pm

King Crimson wrote:In the current set-up, the only way Bonser won't get his money is if and when WFC are liquidated.

This conscientious objection is no more noble than refusing to take up arms to protect one's own family from invading hordes.

In short, sometimes the price of a single set of principles is too high to offset other things we hold dear.

That's how I see it in any case. However, we are all entitled to our views.

Back on topic, I have no strong feelings towards Villa, not hailing from these parts. But anything that takes potential support from WFC (including the success of other local clubs) shouldn't be welcomed.


Agree with that, absolutely.

Also, I have no strong feeling towards Villa either, which you may find surprising after my posts on this thread, but I just like local clubs to do well instead of constantly hearing all about success happening in London and the North West.

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Re: SOTV

Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:58 pm

Geoff, as you watched the game last night, you contributed directly to Jeff Bonser.

As a stayaway, you must try harder!

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Re: SOTV

Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:09 pm

saddlerken wrote:Geoff, as you watched the game last night, you contributed directly to Jeff Bonser.

As a stayaway, you must try harder!

you could argue indirectly, definitely not directly.

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Re: SOTV

Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:13 pm

HKSaddler wrote:
saddlerken wrote:Geoff, as you watched the game last night, you contributed directly to Jeff Bonser.

As a stayaway, you must try harder!

you could argue indirectly, definitely not directly.

Directly to Rupert Murdoch.

Better?
;-)

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Re: SOTV

Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:40 pm

saddlerken wrote:Geoff, as you watched the game last night, you contributed directly to Jeff Bonser.

As a stayaway, you must try harder!


And to Aston Villa to I would imagine, as Sky funds all Premiership teams. So this probably compensates :lol:

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Re: SOTV

Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:39 pm

King Crimson wrote:
HKSaddler wrote:
saddlerken wrote:Geoff, as you watched the game last night, you contributed directly to Jeff Bonser.

As a stayaway, you must try harder!

you could argue indirectly, definitely not directly.

Directly to Rupert Murdoch.

Better?
;-)

definitely worse, but largely unavoidable.

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Re: SOTV

Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:11 pm

HKSaddler wrote:
King Crimson wrote:
HKSaddler wrote:
saddlerken wrote:Geoff, as you watched the game last night, you contributed directly to Jeff Bonser.

As a stayaway, you must try harder!

you could argue indirectly, definitely not directly.

Directly to Rupert Murdoch.

Better?
;-)

definitely worse, but largely unavoidable.


I pay the subscription to watch the whole Sky package, all channels, all sports, and the match last night didn't add to my cost, so in that respect I look on that as free! :D

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Re: SOTV

Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:19 pm

geoffwhiting wrote:
HKSaddler wrote:definitely worse, but largely unavoidable.


I pay the subscription to watch the whole Sky package, all channels, all sports, and the match last night didn't add to my cost, so in that respect I look on that as free! :D


But by adding to audience figures you add to advertising revenues which ..

So indirectly to Bonser and arguably indirectly to Murdoch.

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Re: SOTV

Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:33 pm

While this thread is primarily concerned with excreting on the Villa, we shouldn't miss the opportunity to revel in the Luton's victory this afternoon

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: SOTV

Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:36 pm

And Villa very nearly beat Swansea, didn't they (thanks to the Swans missing a hatful of chances, especially in the first half). :roll:

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Re: SOTV

Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:52 pm

HKSaddler wrote:
geoffwhiting wrote:
HKSaddler wrote:definitely worse, but largely unavoidable.


I pay the subscription to watch the whole Sky package, all channels, all sports, and the match last night didn't add to my cost, so in that respect I look on that as free! :D


But by adding to audience figures you add to advertising revenues which ..

So indirectly to Bonser and arguably indirectly to Murdoch.


A tenuous link, to say the very least! :)

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Re: SOTV

Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:52 pm

geoffwhiting wrote:
HKSaddler wrote:
King Crimson wrote:
HKSaddler wrote:
saddlerken wrote:Geoff, as you watched the game last night, you contributed directly to Jeff Bonser.

As a stayaway, you must try harder!

you could argue indirectly, definitely not directly.

Directly to Rupert Murdoch.

Better?
;-)

definitely worse, but largely unavoidable.


I pay the subscription to watch the whole Sky package, all channels, all sports, and the match last night didn't add to my cost, so in that respect I look on that as free! :D

If you're going to go all semantic over chucking money at Murcodh over Bonser, then try looking at it from the other way round - the market, the Bonser Suite and the season ticket holders' regular income have already more than covered the cost of the rent and most of the overhead at Walsall FC, so you just denied them the money that would have helped put one better player on the pitch. :wink:

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Re: SOTV

Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:12 pm

Bradford 1-0 Villa. :lol:

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Re: SOTV

Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:22 pm

Can you get a refund on that Hotel Cowshed ? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: SOTV

Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:35 pm

Ho. Ho. And thrice Ho.

cack On The Villa.

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Re: SOTV

Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:38 pm

geoffwhiting wrote:
Cowshed wrote:
yoda wrote:Booking hotel rooms before they are even in a final? Using some vauge 'family connection' to jump on some glory? I've long held the view that villa fans are the man utd fans of the midlands - jumped up brats with a sense of entitlement because of some tedious link to a club they have no real affiliation to. It sounds like cowshed will fit right in with those tossers.



This is why people dont want to take heir kids to the bescot anymore and why the crowd will soon be sub 3000

Its embarrassing !!


Exactly, cowshed.

Any Villa fan would expect they'll reach the final over two legs, and why shouldn't they? I certainly do. So if you can afford it, go ahead and book those rooms to make sure you're fixed up with accommodation, so you can make a good weekend of it. Then if they don't get through, you cancel.

It ain't rocket science, in fact it's absolute plain and simple common sense, but unfortunately some people can't resist interpreting that as some kind of big-headed over-confident "attitude" - which it certainly isn't.


But why let the facts get in the way of bigotry and hatred? :D



Really ? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Any Villa fan might expect it, but as I said they are all thick as pig muck. :lol: :lol: :lol: (Slight sarcasm possible in this post)

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Re: SOTV

Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:41 pm

Fray Bentos is God! wrote:Ho. Ho. And thrice Ho.

guano On The Villa.


Indeed, let us excrete upon them tonight

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: SOTV

Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:43 pm

What a sad night for midlands football

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Fray Bentos is God!
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Re: SOTV

Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:43 pm

As a Midlands football fan, I'm crying.

With fudge laughter.

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Re: SOTV

Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:59 pm

The gift that keeps on giving...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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