Leyton Orient (A) League 1 Saturtday 29/12/12.

[shrewsbury saddler]

It's a cliche to say that the sign of a promotion team is that they win whlle playing badly.if that's true,it's likely the opposite is also true.A team heading for relegation fails to take points when they play well.If it is the case ,it's worrying for us.

[Cully]

.

Doesn't make any difference whatsoever, just providing Dim Deano with convenient excuse. They are supposed to be professional athletes, playing a couple of games a week is an easy life.

Blame Deano he's rubbish.LLLLDLDDLLLDDDLDWWL[/quote]

Stats don't back that up though Cully. Look at the record of teams after playing midweek in Europe or those that have a million games in hand at the end ofthe season - remember Dagenham a couple of seasons ago.

I am concerned though by the overall number of goals that we concede.[/quote]

What stats? You're just making the usual football manager excuses. The number of goals we concede is down to Smiths coaching, his poor player selections and signings not some imaginary bad luck, may as well blame our bad luck on a burgundy jumper :D[/quote]

Nonsense - no matter how much coaching he does on the training ground and how many hours of defensive work Smith does with the squad it simply doesn't replicate a game situation, his squad selection is based on the resources he has (the back 4 he picked today is probably the "strongest" we have at the club) but the coaching staff are simply observers if we fail to hold onto leads/chuck away points - there isn't much you can do from the touchline unfortunately and i'm speaking from past experiences.[/quote]

So following that brilliant piece of logic all managers and coaches are surplus to requirements? Smith out QED

[Tyldesley_saddler]

.

Doesn't make any difference whatsoever, just providing Dim Deano with convenient excuse. They are supposed to be professional athletes, playing a couple of games a week is an easy life.

Blame Deano he's rubbish.LLLLDLDDLLLDDDLDWWL

Stats don't back that up though Cully. Look at the record of teams after playing midweek in Europe or those that have a million games in hand at the end ofthe season - remember Dagenham a couple of seasons ago.

I am concerned though by the overall number of goals that we concede.[/quote]

What stats? You're just making the usual football manager excuses. The number of goals we concede is down to Smiths coaching, his poor player selections and signings not some imaginary bad luck, may as well blame our bad luck on a burgundy jumper :D[/quote]

Nonsense - no matter how much coaching he does on the training ground and how many hours of defensive work Smith does with the squad it simply doesn't replicate a game situation, his squad selection is based on the resources he has (the back 4 he picked today is probably the "strongest" we have at the club) but the coaching staff are simply observers if we fail to hold onto leads/chuck away points - there isn't much you can do from the touchline unfortunately and i'm speaking from past experiences.[/quote]

So following that brilliant piece of logic all managers and coaches are surplus to requirements? Smith out QED[/quote]


i agree

[bangsection]

One of those games. Our two best chances coincided with two very good saves (and arguably Westcarr shooting straight at the keeper with the goal gaping) their two best chances coincided with pretty poor defending and a first goal with an offside in the build up that wasn't given.

That said, we created little second half and although it is almost a contractual obligation when attending matches to be baffled by Smith's substitutions I have to confess to being baffled by Smith's substitutions. Bowerman and Cuvelier were entirely ineffective and I'm genuinely not sure which position Cuvelier was supposed to be playing in.

To be fair, only one team was interested in playing football today and it wor Orient. Whoever said this is a poor League One is spot on. What was that, their eighth win in nine games? And they're bang average on that performance.

Biggest positive today was Mantom's performance - MOTM and a 'worldy' as the appalling Merson would say. Biggest negative was Downing. Kid had a bit of a stinker I'm afraid.

Will try to do player ratings after I finish the East 17 heritage tour. Just off to Brian Harvey's Mum's house. X

[DYSaddler]

One of those games. Our two best chances coincided with two very good saves (and arguably Westcarr shooting straight at the keeper with the goal gaping) their two best chances coincided with pretty poor defending and a first goal with an offside in the build up that wasn't given.

That said, we created little second half and although it is almost a contractual obligation when attending matches to be baffled by Smith's substitutions I have to confess to being baffled by Smith's substitutions. Bowerman and Cuvelier were entirely ineffective and I'm genuinely not sure which position Cuvelier was supposed to be playing in.

To be fair, only one team was interested in playing football today and it wor Orient. Whoever said this is a poor League One is spot on. What was that, their eighth win in nine games? And they're bang average on that performance.

Biggest positive today was Mantom's performance - MOTM and a 'worldy' as the appalling Merson would say. Biggest negative was Downing. Kid had a bit of a stinker I'm afraid.

Will try to do player ratings after I finish the East 17 heritage tour. Just off to Brian Harvey's Mum's house. X

Disappointing to hear about Downing's performance - still see a lot of potential in him, but no doubt after today DS will re-establish the solid partnership that is Butler-Holden :roll:

[DYSaddler]

[/quote]

So following that brilliant piece of logic all managers and coaches are surplus to requirements? Smith out QED[/quote]

No, never said that at all. If as a coach you spend, for example, 5 hours a week on heading with two centre halfs, and they are clearing the ball 30-40m with every header but on a saturday that same situation is replicated and they make a mess of it and it leads to a 89th minute winner for the opposition, what are you meant to do as a coach?

[King Crimson]

Will try to do player ratings after I finish the East 17 heritage tour. Just off to Brian Harvey's Mum's house. X

If she asks "won't you stay another day?" she may well be quoting a lyric rather than making an indecent proposal.

Forewarned is forearmed!
xx

[Cully]

Nonsense - no matter how much coaching he does on the training ground and how many hours of defensive work Smith does with the squad it simply doesn't replicate a game situation, his squad selection is based on the resources he has (the back 4 he picked today is probably the "strongest" we have at the club) but the coaching staff are simply observers if we fail to hold onto leads/chuck away points - there isn't much you can do from the touchline unfortunately and i'm speaking from past experiences

I dont agree with that all. Even though he has a great team look how often Man Utd score late and it's not purely down to skill it's down to good management/tactics and setting them into believing they can score until the whistle goes. If you don't want to accept Man Utd as an example, look at Steve Burr at Kidderminster, despite an appaling start to the season (5 points in 10 games) he has turned them round and got them into the playoffs (before kick off today). They have scored a lot of last minute winners this season and the Kiddy fans I know rave about Burr as a manager.

Good call mossa, one of my favourite hobby horses, championing the case of going into the non league scene to find new managers. Unfortunately league chairmen, like the majority of fans, never look beyond 'the usual' suspects of failed football league managers and trot out bizarre and tedious lists of useless, unsuccessful and failed managers most of which are periodically suggested by posters on this forum.

Steve Burr has had a successful career as both player and manager in non league, my younger son played in the same team as his son and I got to know him reasonably well. He did apply for the managers job at Walsall on a couple of occasions but never even got the courtesy of an acknowledgement. Closed shop as far as he was concerned with both him and other non league managers.

Smith out - Steve Burr in :D

[DYSaddler]

Nonsense - no matter how much coaching he does on the training ground and how many hours of defensive work Smith does with the squad it simply doesn't replicate a game situation, his squad selection is based on the resources he has (the back 4 he picked today is probably the "strongest" we have at the club) but the coaching staff are simply observers if we fail to hold onto leads/chuck away points - there isn't much you can do from the touchline unfortunately and i'm speaking from past experiences

I dont agree with that all. Even though he has a great team look how often Man Utd score late and it's not purely down to skill it's down to good management/tactics and setting them into believing they can score until the whistle goes. If you don't want to accept Man Utd as an example, look at Steve Burr at Kidderminster, despite an appaling start to the season (5 points in 10 games) he has turned them round and got them into the playoffs (before kick off today). They have scored a lot of last minute winners this season and the Kiddy fans I know rave about Burr as a manager.

Good call mossa, one of my favourite hobby horses, championing the case of going into the non league scene to find new managers. Unfortunately league chairmen, like the majority of fans, never look beyond 'the usual' suspects of failed football league managers and trot out bizarre and tedious lists of useless, unsuccessful and failed managers most of which are periodically suggested by posters on this forum.

Steve Burr has had a successful career as both player and manager in non league, my younger son played in the same team as his son and I got to know him reasonably well. He did apply for the managers job at Walsall on a couple of occasions but never even got the courtesy of an acknowledgement. Closed shop as far as he was concerned with both him and other non league managers.

Smith out - Steve Burr in :D

Absolutely - and not only management, young and talented footballers who can make a name for themselves in the football league. I would love to see us approach the likes of Kiddy for Anthony Malbon or Macclesfield for Matthew Barnes-Homer - give them a chance is what I say and see what happens - not the Claude Gnapka kinds mind :mrgreen:

[Cully]

One of those games. Our two best chances coincided with two very good saves (and arguably Westcarr shooting straight at the keeper with the goal gaping) their two best chances coincided with pretty poor defending and a first goal with an offside in the build up that wasn't given.

That said, we created little second half and although it is almost a contractual obligation when attending matches to be baffled by Smith's substitutions I have to confess to being baffled by Smith's substitutions. Bowerman and Cuvelier were entirely ineffective and I'm genuinely not sure which position Cuvelier was supposed to be playing in.

To be fair, only one team was interested in playing football today and it wor Orient. Whoever said this is a poor League One is spot on. What was that, their eighth win in nine games? And they're bang average on that performance.

Biggest positive today was Mantom's performance - MOTM and a 'worldy' as the appalling Merson would say. Biggest negative was Downing. Kid had a bit of a stinker I'm afraid.

Will try to do player ratings after I finish the East 17 heritage tour. Just off to Brian Harvey's Mum's house. X

Sounds just as dire as my shrine, could you pick up a few lucky pigs knuckles and a cockney rhyming slang dictionary before you head back up north, I'm a little worried that you may not have understood the difference between your Plymouth Argylls and having a few Britney Spears.

[Fray Bentos is God!]

Not wanting to piss on your chips, but Gnapka had scored 15-20 goals in the Conference when we picked him up. I'm not saying he was good, but he was exactly what you are saying, he just didn't work out.

Barnes-Homer used to play for Willenhall, when they were decent.

[Cully]

Nonsense - no matter how much coaching he does on the training ground and how many hours of defensive work Smith does with the squad it simply doesn't replicate a game situation, his squad selection is based on the resources he has (the back 4 he picked today is probably the "strongest" we have at the club) but the coaching staff are simply observers if we fail to hold onto leads/chuck away points - there isn't much you can do from the touchline unfortunately and i'm speaking from past experiences

I dont agree with that all. Even though he has a great team look how often Man Utd score late and it's not purely down to skill it's down to good management/tactics and setting them into believing they can score until the whistle goes. If you don't want to accept Man Utd as an example, look at Steve Burr at Kidderminster, despite an appaling start to the season (5 points in 10 games) he has turned them round and got them into the playoffs (before kick off today). They have scored a lot of last minute winners this season and the Kiddy fans I know rave about Burr as a manager.

Good call mossa, one of my favourite hobby horses, championing the case of going into the non league scene to find new managers. Unfortunately league chairmen, like the majority of fans, never look beyond 'the usual' suspects of failed football league managers and trot out bizarre and tedious lists of useless, unsuccessful and failed managers most of which are periodically suggested by posters on this forum.

Steve Burr has had a successful career as both player and manager in non league, my younger son played in the same team as his son and I got to know him reasonably well. He did apply for the managers job at Walsall on a couple of occasions but never even got the courtesy of an acknowledgement. Closed shop as far as he was concerned with both him and other non league managers.

Smith out - Steve Burr in :D

Absolutely - and not only management, young and talented footballers who can make a name for themselves in the football league. I would love to see us approach the likes of Kiddy for Anthony Malbon or Macclesfield for Matthew Barnes-Homer - give them a chance is what I say and see what happens - not the Claude Gnapka kinds mind :mrgreen:

There is a local lad, playing centre half for Rushall who has been regularly scouted by Doncaster and Tranmere together with two local non league teams willing to pay a bigger contract for him called Mitchell Tolley. Can't vouch for his 'talent' but when I asked the obvious question of someone who supports Walsall whether he had ever been approached by our very own Super Soaraway Saddlers over the last few years not a single person to his knowledge from the club had ever approached him. No doubt Pedagogue, who I assume may have seen him play, can probably let us know if this is just a tale or a genuine prospect.

[Whitters]

Not wanting to pee on your chips, but Gnapka had scored 15-20 goals in the Conference when we picked him up. I'm not saying he was good, but he was exactly what you are saying, he just didn't work out.

Barnes-Homer used to play for Willenhall, when they were decent.

Anyone with the name Homer is worth a try in my book.

[Bernie]

There is a local lad, playing centre half for Rushall who has been regularly scouted by Doncaster and Tranmere together with two local non league teams willing to pay a bigger contract for him called Mitchell Tolley.

A real gent on Twitter. https://twitter.com/Mitchmufc1990

[mossa]

Nonsense - no matter how much coaching he does on the training ground and how many hours of defensive work Smith does with the squad it simply doesn't replicate a game situation, his squad selection is based on the resources he has (the back 4 he picked today is probably the "strongest" we have at the club) but the coaching staff are simply observers if we fail to hold onto leads/chuck away points - there isn't much you can do from the touchline unfortunately and i'm speaking from past experiences

I dont agree with that all. Even though he has a great team look how often Man Utd score late and it's not purely down to skill it's down to good management/tactics and setting them into believing they can score until the whistle goes. If you don't want to accept Man Utd as an example, look at Steve Burr at Kidderminster, despite an appaling start to the season (5 points in 10 games) he has turned them round and got them into the playoffs (before kick off today). They have scored a lot of last minute winners this season and the Kiddy fans I know rave about Burr as a manager.

Good call mossa, one of my favourite hobby horses, championing the case of going into the non league scene to find new managers. Unfortunately league chairmen, like the majority of fans, never look beyond 'the usual' suspects of failed football league managers and trot out bizarre and tedious lists of useless, unsuccessful and failed managers most of which are periodically suggested by posters on this forum.

Steve Burr has had a successful career as both player and manager in non league, my younger son played in the same team as his son and I got to know him reasonably well. He did apply for the managers job at Walsall on a couple of occasions but never even got the courtesy of an acknowledgement. Closed shop as far as he was concerned with both him and other non league managers.

Smith out - Steve Burr in :D

Yep I would love Steve Burr at Walsall. His used to working with budgets and done wonders at most clubs his been at. Don't see why he couldn't step up a couple of divisions, it's hardly like stepping up from league 1 to the prem. Like you say though most clubs just stick with failed football league managers. Oh and besides we have Smith on a 2 and a half year contract, how could i forget that?

[Pedagogue]

There is a local lad, playing centre half for Rushall who has been regularly scouted by Doncaster and Tranmere together with two local non-League teams willing to pay a bigger contract for him called Mitchell Tolley. Can't vouch for his 'talent' but when I asked the obvious question of someone who supports Walsall whether he had ever been approached by our very own Super Soaraway Saddlers over the last few years, not a single person to his knowledge from the club had ever approached him. No doubt Pedagogue, who I assume may have seen him play, can probably let us know if this is just a tale or a genuine prospect.

22 year-old Mitchell Tolley (who is under contract at Rushall and would, therefore, command a transfer fee, albeit small) has been watched by a number of clubs but none have rated him sufficiently highly to put in a bid for him. I rate him as an outstanding defender at Northern Premier League (Premier Division) standard. He has pace and his tackling skills are first class. However, his distribution and use of the ball is poor. With good coaching he could easily step up to Conference level. Above that - who knows?

[bangsection]

Ratings as promised.

McCarey 6 - not much to do apart from a couple of regulation saves in the second half but will be disappointed withe the first Orient goal - looked like it went through his legs from a very tight angle.

Purkiss 7 - kept Cox quiet all game until skinned for their winner.

Butler 6 - did a decent job on Lisbie but his last ditch tackle for the first goal neither took enough of the man or the ball. Result: Mooney kept the ball and scored from the tightest of angles. One horrendous hospital pass second half when under no pressure.

Downing 5 - looked shaky. Difficult conditions but a couple of dreadful touches and poor clearances put us under unnecessary pressure.

Taylor 6 - have to be question marks over his positioning for Orient's winner. Lad unmarked at the back post but was he Paterson's responsibility?

Paterson 6 - see above. Usual Paterson display: great cross for Brandy's saved header but a few woeful shots and poor decisions as per usual. Rarely beat his man.

Chambers 7 - another good game. Seems to relish his job in a 4-2-3-1.

Mantom 8 - MOTM. Good drive and creativity from midfield. A Chambers type performance with a bit extra today. Great long range strike.

Brandy 7 - is the wide right of a 4-2-3-1 his best position? Would like to see him play more centrally given his current goalscoring form. Shame that the second-best chance of the game fell to our smallest player but fair play to him, it was an excellent header and a great save by their keeper. Very unlucky to be subbed.

Westcarr 6 - strange game. Very good first half and enjoyed his auxiliary striker role as the central member of our midfield three. Best chance of the game in first half - unmarked on the penalty spot and opted for power rather than placement. Straight at the keeper who saved well. Peripheral second half - bordering on not that interested which was weird. Awful delivery for the last free kick of the game when McCarey had come up.

Grigg 6 - not particularly involved today. One half chance in the first half where he might have done better from a cross that fell to him in the box.

Subs:

Cuvelier 5 - struggled to have any impact on the game playing as a sort of number 10 behind Bowerman.

Bowerman 5 - ditto. Pristine kit at the final whistle indicative of his unwillingness to at least make the Orient centre halves earn their money.

Hemmings 5 - not a huge amount of time to do owt apart from send a cross sailing out for a goal kick when in a decent position.

[latviancheese]

Brandy suspended for next game, which is a bit of an arse.

[mossa]

There is a local lad, playing centre half for Rushall who has been regularly scouted by Doncaster and Tranmere together with two local non league teams willing to pay a bigger contract for him called Mitchell Tolley. Can't vouch for his 'talent' but when I asked the obvious question of someone who supports Walsall whether he had ever been approached by our very own Super Soaraway Saddlers over the last few years not a single person to his knowledge from the club had ever approached him. No doubt Pedagogue, who I assume may have seen him play, can probably let us know if this is just a tale or a genuine prospect

Not seen him play i must admit but have heard good things about him. My mate used to play for rushall called Lee Gough, was a cracking player and was surprised knowone signed him up back then. There are definately some gems to be found in the lower leagues

[fatboyslim]

There is a local lad, playing centre half for Rushall who has been regularly scouted by Doncaster and Tranmere together with two local non league teams willing to pay a bigger contract for him called Mitchell Tolley.

A real gent on Twitter. https://twitter.com/Mitchmufc1990

Sounds like a braindead tool!! Maybe his attitude is keeping him at that level? I know most footballers aren't that bright but he sounds like he is a total moron.

[Surrey Saddler]

I went today. Orient were poor. We shoud have finished them off. We didn't. Don't know enough about football to say why not. It drizzled all through and I got cold and fed up. Am thinking of going on strike.

[Pedagogue]

I know most footballers aren't that bright ...

That could qualify as the understatement of the season! :lol: You certainly won't see Tolley on University Challenge but, then again, have you read the tweets of Walsall FC's current players? Intellectuals they certainly are not!!!

[Fray Bentos is God!]

He's a glory hunter. Says it all.

[JonnyOwen]

I went.

Deano is tactically oblivious.
Orient were okay, nothing special.
Mantoms goal was a SCREEEAMER!
We need to work on our finishing.
Andy Butlers white shorts became cack brown after 45 minutes.
Grof back in please!

[Bernie]

I know most footballers aren't that bright ...

That could qualify as the understatement of the season! :lol: You certainly won't see Tolley on University Challenge but, then again, have you read the tweets of Walsall FC's current players? Intellectuals they certainly are not!!!

Perhaps it is a generational thing. I cannot imagine, and certainly do not want to believe, that past players such as Colin Taylor, Tony Richards, Alan Buckley, Colin Harrison etc would ever have put their name anything like the public tweets of Mitch the ManU fan and some of the Walsall tweeters.

I suppose when I was young I used to look up to Walsall players as heroes. Now I am old I have to try hard not to look down on (some of) them as pathetic idiots.

[We-ARE-Walsall]

I know most footballers aren't that bright ...

That could qualify as the understatement of the season! :lol: You certainly won't see Tolley on University Challenge but, then again, have you read the tweets of Walsall FC's current players? Intellectuals they certainly are not!!!

Perhaps it is a generational thing. I cannot imagine, and certainly do not want to believe, that past players such as Colin Taylor, Tony Richards, Alan Buckley, Colin Harrison etc would ever have put their name anything like the public tweets of Mitch the ManU fan and some of the Walsall tweeters.

I suppose when I was young I used to look up to Walsall players as heroes. Now I am old I have to try hard not to look down on (some of) them as pathetic idiots.

We don't have heroes anymore, this is why it is so hard to get kids down there to watch us. Who was the last one we had? I think it's probably Jorge, although I may have missed someone out. There is no one the kids can relate too these days, we probably wont have half the team that played today next season.

When I started going, they players were like gods to me, I loved them, I felt part of something, now it is just 11 players wearing a Walsall shirt, that give or take the odd one, couldn't really care less.

[Darth Vader]

216 Saddlers at Orient, fair play to em.

[We-ARE-Walsall]

216 Saddlers at Orient, fair play to em.

Great support, far more than they deserve.

[lichsaddler]

Was at the game today, got to say thought we played alright today, probably deserved to win, let alone draw.

Orient looked poor and there was only one team trying to play football and win the game, if nobody knew, they would have guessed Walsall were the home side.

Might get some stick for saying this but as well as good performances for Mantom, Chambers and Butler, i thought Westcarr was our most threatening player. Yes he wasted a few chances but for me, he showed some nice touches, some good deliveries and looked the most likely to score.

McCarey and Downing were the only two negatives today. Cuvelier also looked slightly off the pace again but that's probably due to a lack of match fitness.

If we can pick up four points from Stevenage and Pompey, I think we'll be in a more than healthy position.

Just to pick up on a few points mentioned earlier in the thread
1. The late goal conceded today was nothing like the late goals conceded this season. We weren't sitting deep, we hadn't switched to defensive, hoof ball mode so I think today's late goal was just one of those things
2. Can't understand how you can criticise Smith for his subs. He took off Westcarr for Cuvelier so Flo could come on and hopefully have an influence playing in his best position - just off the striker. Grigg was doing OK but didn't look too threatening. We needed a goal and Bowerman did well when he came on against Colchester so that substitution made perfect sense as well. Despite making some awful decisions regarding subs and some point this season, I feel people find it easy to criticise subs when they can't think of anything else to criticise.

[latviancheese]

We don't have heroes anymore, this is why it is so hard to get kids down there to watch us. Who was the last one we had? I think it's probably Jorge, although I may have missed someone out. There is no one the kids can relate too these days, we probably wont have half the team that played today next season.

When I started going, they players were like gods to me, I loved them, I felt part of something, now it is just 11 players wearing a Walsall shirt, that give or take the odd one, couldn't really care less.

They will return, plenty of decent lads about. The money tarnishes it, but at the end of the day they are also human. If someone offers your 200 quid more a week. You cant really afford to turn that down in this day and age. :(