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Swansea City (A) Carling Cup - Tuesday 14th August 2007

Reports and reaction from the 2007-08 season as Walsall finished 12th in League 1
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Duke
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Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:24 pm

Magic Man Fan wrote:
DAVEDEAN wrote:
Asps wrote:Early days yet.

More signings to come.

Ishy back Saturday.

Cool heads required.


agreed .
DD has just said we had 4 key missing players , Weston , Roper , Butler , Ishmel
Roper in his plans for saturday , these players will make a difference .


How can they Dave?

Weston is ginger. Roper is fat. Butler is at Posh and Ishmel has an asbo. We stand no chance. Certain relegation this season. :roll:





:lol: :lol: Macclesfield here come.

one defeat our season is over :roll:
Last edited by Duke on Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Stu
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Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:25 pm

Magic Man Fan wrote:Completely agree and fed up of the negativity after 2 games to be honest. Should be used to it by now.


I do think some are over-reacting, its only two games in to the season, but I don't think they're being negative, just pointing out concerns and issues. Be fair to both sides.

Yes we had a great 2nd half against Carlisle, but the 1st half was a complete role reversal. Tonight we've rolled over very tamely against a team starting 4 of their first choice XI, and finishing with just 6 of the first XI. Yet we've really struggled to cause them any sort of problem, despite having a fair piece of possession.

If we'd played great and looked good in both, folk would have been quick enough to praise and point out the positives. Therefore its only natural to expect the opposite, you can't just dismiss that as folk being negative.

You've been quick enough to jump on the pro's of seeing Nicholls and Deeney introduced and the nice style of play in the 2nd half on Saturday. You can't give that, but refuse to take any of the criticisms that are there for folk to see.

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Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:27 pm

stefano123 wrote:
Magic Man Fan wrote:
Asps wrote:Early days yet.

More signings to come.

Ishy back Saturday.

Cool heads required.


Completely agree and fed up of the negativity after 2 games to be honest. Should be used to it by now.

All the issues being raised were issues last season but they didn't count for anything. And yes, I am fully aware that we're in a different division.


My "negativity" is based on a concern. If Sonner and Dobson come good then ill be the first to put my hands up. However, I THINK we are not strong enough across the midfield.
This is my basis for my comments and aprasial of the midfield, please feel free to slate me or agree:


Ishy - could be good but depends which ishy turns up
Fox - Not Creative enough can't beat a player, capable squad player though.
Dobin - Poor distribution, bottles it against tough tackin midfielders but hes a trier and would be good backup.
Sonner - Most Creative of our centre midfielders but is not an attacking midfielder looks better when sitting.
Nicholls - Potentially very good indeed. Has pace, skill and a decent delivery. But is young and inexperinced.
Hall - Doesn't set the world alight, no pace but would take him over wright any day.
Sonko - Untried. Could come good but could be useless too. Jury is out on that one.
Bradley - Again untried and inexperienced but i think he deserves a chance becuase looks very capable.
Wrack - Not the same player since he came back from injury but would prefer him and Sonner centre mid than Dobson.

*Puts on bullet/knife/atomic bomb proof suit* :)


Hey Stef, was that you on the radio, if so, can I have your autograpgh :lol:
Last edited by Purple Toucan Saddler on Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Cueball
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Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:28 pm

Stu wrote:
Magic Man Fan wrote:Completely agree and fed up of the negativity after 2 games to be honest. Should be used to it by now.


Come on, be fair to both sides. Its not being negative, its stating what is being seen so far after two matches, so its realistic.

Yes we had a great 2nd half against Carlisle, but the 1st half was a complete role reversal.

Tonight we've rolled over very tamely against a team starting 4 of their first choice XI, and finishing with just 6 of the first XI. Yet we've really struggled to cause them any sort of problem, despite having a fair piece of possession.

I do think some are over-reacting, its only two games in to the season, but I don't think they're being negative, just pointing out concerns and issues.

If we'd played great and looked good in both, folk would have been quick enough to praise and point out the positives. Therefore its only natural to expect the opposite, you can't just dismiss that as folk being negative.

You've been quick enough to jump on the pro's of seeing Nicholls and Deeney introduced and the nice style of play in the 2nd half on Saturday. You can't give that, but refuse to take any of the criticisms that are there for folk to see.


Don't let DD hear you say that! He virtually bit the WM interviewer's head off when he made the comment!

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Stu
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Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:30 pm

Cueball wrote:
Stu wrote:Tonight we've rolled over very tamely against a team starting 4 of their first choice XI, and finishing with just 6 of the first XI.


Don't let DD hear you say that! He virtually bit the WM interviewer's head off when he made the comment!


What did he say, I turned the commentary off at full time.

At least Sjoke lost at Rochdale, that gave me something to laugh at.

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Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:31 pm

On a more positive note, Rochdale are 2-1 up in extra time against Sjoke

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SheffieldSaddler
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Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:32 pm

stefano123 wrote:
Magic Man Fan wrote:
Asps wrote:Early days yet.

More signings to come.

Ishy back Saturday.

Cool heads required.


Completely agree and fed up of the negativity after 2 games to be honest. Should be used to it by now.

All the issues being raised were issues last season but they didn't count for anything. And yes, I am fully aware that we're in a different division.


I like to consider myself as one of the more optiistic poster but on this issue i have to worry. My "negativity" is based on a concern. If Sonner and Dobson come good then ill be the first to put my hands up. However, I THINK we are not strong enough across the midfield.
This is my basis for my comments and aprasial of the midfield, please feel free to slate me or agree:


Ishy - could be good but depends which ishy turns up
Fox - Not Creative enough can't beat a player, capable squad player though.
Dobin - Poor distribution, bottles it against tough tackin midfielders but hes a trier and would be good backup.
Sonner - Most Creative of our centre midfielders but is not an attacking midfielder looks better when sitting.
Nicholls - Potentially very good indeed. Has pace, skill and a decent delivery. But is young and inexperinced.
Hall - Doesn't set the world alight, no pace but would take him over wright any day.
Sonko - Untried. Could come good but could be useless too. Jury is out on that one.
Bradley - Again untried and inexperienced but i think he deserves a chance becuase looks very capable.
Wrack - Not the same player since he came back from injury but would prefer him and Sonner centre mid than Dobson.

*Puts on bullet/knife/atomic bomb proof suit* :)


Sonner and Wrack in midfield, so whose would be the one that breaks up attacks? :roll:

Can you name me the "tough tackling midfielders" Dobson has bottled it against please? :roll:

So when have you seen Nicholls do all that? :roll:

Bradley - When has he looked "very capable"? :roll:

I so look forward to your responses to the above......

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Duke
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Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:32 pm

On another night Mooney could have had an hat-trick , thats football it happens .
After 2 games Dobson and Sonner are not good enough , Carlos is a cart horse . we are relegation doomed :roll:

Give me strenght.

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tinned
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Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:32 pm

Stu wrote:
Magic Man Fan wrote:Completely agree and fed up of the negativity after 2 games to be honest. Should be used to it by now.


I do think some are over-reacting, its only two games in to the season, but I don't think they're being negative, just pointing out concerns and issues.


Probably am. I just can't see the "everything will be fine in a few weeks" line that some people continually trot out. It's not like I've only just started with my concerns. I had them from the second part of last season. I had them whilst this seasons squad was being built. Nothing's changed as far as I can see.

I will be as happy as anyone if I'm proved to be wrong, but I can't pretend I think something I don't :?

Jeremy Busby
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Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:35 pm

Jeremy Busby wrote:On a more positive note, Rochdale are 2-1 up in extra time against Sjoke


Update: Sjoke get a second in the last minute of extra time but Rochdale win 4-2 on penalties :D

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Stu
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Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:36 pm

DAVEDEAN wrote:On another night Mooney could have had an hat-trick , thats football it happens .


That could be said of every team and every match though, I'm sure they missed a couple of chances too tonight.

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Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:37 pm

All the comments on the match are based upon what we have heard on WM. If the commentary had said that we had played well in all departments and were unlucky to lose then I am sure that is what we would be talking about. Instead we heard of some good performances by individuals but rather more that were not so good, and some weaknesses in certain areas were described.

Perhaps the SMAGBTL brigade think that the WM commentators simply being unfair and negative. They should take into account that it is only two games into the season - we were playing a tough team - it was raining - nobody thought Walsall were going to be any good this season anyway - etc etc. I think a stiff letter to the station editor is required to put a stop to this terrible negative tone during commentary on Walsall matches.
Last edited by Bernie on Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:38 pm

Bernie wrote:All the comments on the match are based upon what we have heard from the commentary. If the commentary had said that we had played well in all departments and were unlucky to lose then I am sure that is what we would be talking about. Instead we heard of some good performances by individuals but rather more that were not so good, and some weaknesses in certain areas were described.

Perhaps the SMAGBTL brigade think that the WM commentators simply being unfair and negative. They should take into account that it is only two games into the season - we were playing a tough team - it was raining - nobody thought Walsall were going to be any good this season anyway - etc etc. I think a stiff letter to the station editor is required to put a stop to this terrible negative tone during commentary on Walsall matches.


:lol: They'd laugh at you.

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Magic Man Fan
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Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:51 pm

Myself and saddlerken never waived from the fact we said we would be promoted last season, even through our dodgier spells. Same goes for Dave Dean and Geordie.

This wasn't based on blind faith, it was based on the qualities we saw. We were right, the doom mongers were wrong, just as they are now.

I'm not as confident as saddlerken this time round, I think the play offs are out of reach as it stands...but if we can make two key signings in the next week or so then it is a possibility. We'll be closer to the top 6 than the relegation places. If we don't make those signing then we'll be lower mid-table.

We were right last time and we will be again because we based our views on the facts and the evidence. We had all the deficiencies last season that people are bringing up now but it didn't matter then and if the right signings come in, it won't matter now either.

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Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:51 pm

SheffieldSaddler wrote:Sonner and Wrack in midfield, so whose would be the one that breaks up attacks? :roll:

Can you name me the "tough tackling midfielders" Dobson has bottled it against please? :roll:

So when have you seen Nicholls do all that? :roll:

Bradley - When has he looked "very capable"? :roll:

I so look forward to your responses to the above......


1. I could say the same about Dobson. What attacks does he break up?

2. Anthony Grant against Wycombe for one, don't no the names of the others but i can tell you the teams... Lincoln, Bury, Swindon, Rochdale want me to go on?

3. EVERYTIME i have wathced niko play, reserve and first team, he has impressed me greatly.

4. Again EVERYTIME i seen Bradly play, admitidly in the reserves, he has been MOM. And he is an international player

Just my Opinion though for what it is worth.

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Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:17 pm

Purple Toucan Saddler wrote:
Hey Stef, was that you on the radio, if so, can I have your autograpgh :lol:


I'll c what i can do just send me a PM stamp addressed envelope and a blank cheque...

Who should i make it out to? :D

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YGA Saddler
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Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:19 pm

Not fussed.

Now if we were to lose on Saturday that would be completely different.

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YGA Saddler
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Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:22 pm

DD said on WM "We had five players out tonight"?? Pretty dodgy comments to be honest.

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Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:23 pm

YGA Saddler wrote:Not fussed.

Now if we were to lose on Saturday that would be completely different.

But without wanting to join the doom-merchants, I think it's a big ask. Even after Saturday I think people should refrain from reaching for the anti-depressants as Orient are a very decent side, as we all expected Swansea to be tonight.

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Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:43 pm

This will be a very bitty match report, as I had to keep giving my attention to my 11-year old - "What happened there Dad, why did he do that, is it our throw-in" etc. etc.

The Saddlers really weren't at the races, so to speak. Swansea had no more than four shots on target all the game, and scored from two of them. We had quite a few good chances, and a couple presented on a plate, but couldn't convert.

Player by player.....

Ince was very steady, had no chance with the two goals. Kicking occasionally wayward, occasionally atrocious.

Wrack was our right-back, and often ventured forth up the wing leaving a huge area vacant behind him. It was a left-wing cross that brought Swansea their first goal - it fell straight at the feet of a completely unmarked Swansea player, who was able to take his time and find the net. I thought Wrack played very well in fact, but perhaps he was trying to do too much.

Boertin at left-back had class that stood out - unruffled under pressure (and the Swansea forwards did put him under some pressure). Good link up play with Mooney, but no help at all from Carneiro.

I'll bracket Dann and Gerrard together, because both played the same kind of role, and both were not far short of immense. They broke up Swansea attacks, tackled well, and tried to supply some sort of service to the front men. The fact that some of the front men apparently couldn't be bothered to chase anything played into the channels is another matter.

Sonner - apart from a few neat touches, I found him anonymous (or, rather, I didn't find him, if you see my point).
Dobson - more solid than Sonner, but again, not joining in on all cylinders, so to speak.

Hall - Played like a man who's got himself a contract and doesn't see the need to exert himself. It is known that Paul Hall has pace (the man's supposedly a winger for goodness sake), but he certainly didn't show it tonight. Tried hard enough with his little delicate flicks-on with Mooney, but these went astray all to often.

Mooney - tried and tried and tried. After about 15 minutes with the score still 0-0 he intercepted a badly-played backpass by the Swansea full-back, and was one-on-one with the goalkeeper. As he was approaching the goal from the inside-left area he tried to slot it past him using his left foot. Bad move - the keeper got his legs to it. If that had gone in the whole game might have changed.

Carneiro - anyone that thinks this guy is even fit to lace Jorge Leitao's boots can think again. He was awful. Whenever he did make the effort of getting into a position to receive a ball played forwards to him, he was caught off-side. In the end he just didn't bother running, and was quite correctly substituted as the second half started.

Nicholls, coming on as sub for Carneiro, tried his best as a right-winger, but never quite had the beating of his man. Towards the very end he did twist and turn to wrong-foot the full back, and managed to get enough space to lash in a left-foot shot which missed the post by about 6 feet. That was probably our only direct attempt on goal in the second half.

Fox - I don't know what he was trying to achieve, and I don't think he did either.

We must have had around ten corner kicks to Swansea's one, but nothing came of them. The other statistic where we outnumbered Swansea ten to one was that of free kicks - you can't accuse Mr. Singh (referee) of being a "homer", because he was constantly awarding us free kicks, usually because Mooney was being held back going for a header, or tackled from behind as he ploughed a lonely furrow forward. However, our free-kick tactics fell into the same category as our corner-kick tactics - whatever they were, they didn't work. That's not to say it was a dirty game, because it wasn't. There was only one booking, and that for a Swansea defender kicking the ball away near the end to waste a bit of time.

Richard Money was shouting in animated fashion from the "technical area", all to no avail. Clayton Ince was often shouting at his nearest and dearest defenders, with the same outcome.

Changes to make...... based on this one game, Carneiro is a liability, as is Hall. When we have a fit and able right back (Weston) I would move Wrack up to the Carneiro role. ASBO should replace Hall straightaway, and whether Butler fits in with the Manager's plans has yet to be seen. With a slightly better rub of the green we might have given Swansea a closer game tonight. You can't place any blame on the pitch or the weather - both were ideal.

Still some settling in to be done. I'm not too downhearted, and even though Swansea reputedly had some reserves playing, they were obviously playing for places to be had.

Mini-rant over - I'm still optimistic of a mid-table finish.

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Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:53 pm

I dont like rumers, But does anyone know if theres any truth in Peterbough being interested in Butler?

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Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:58 pm

Cheers for that break down Welsh saddler.

Good to hear that our backline was very good. Dann and Gerrard were very good on Saturday too I felt and Boertien we know has class. Interesting that you felt wrack got caught too far forward a few times and may have led to their first goal. There were signs of this on Saturday in the first half but he certainly shows commitment and I'm guessing it is something he will be working on while he is at full back.

Mooney we know will put in 110% all game, just wonder how much of the season he can do that for. Shame that Caneiro seemed disinterested, the jury is still out on him a little bit and I hope, with time, he adapts to the needs of English football (particularly on a wet mid week night in south Wales!!!)

Be interesting to see what happens on Saturday, a few days to work on stuff on the training ground!

UTS!

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Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:11 pm

Great report Welsh Saddler, thanks very much. Those of us who listened to the match on WM will not be surprised by anything you wrote.

I hope that you do not get too much stick from the "It is Boring and Negative to Criticise a Walsall Player (unless he is being inexplicably left out of the side by the manager)" brigade.

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Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:13 pm

:wink:

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Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:13 pm

Bernie wrote:Great report Welsh Saddler, thanks very much. Those of us who listened to the match on WM will not be surprised by anything you wrote.

I hope that you do not get too much stick from the "It is Boring and Negative to Criticise a Walsall Player (unless he is being inexplicably left out of the side by the manager)" brigade.


He won't from me because Welsh Saddler bothered to go to the match so is entitled to his opinion.

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Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:25 pm

Magic Man Fan wrote:Myself and saddlerken never waived from the fact we said we would be promoted last season, even through our dodgier spells. Same goes for Dave Dean and Geordie.

This wasn't based on blind faith, it was based on the qualities we saw. We were right, the doom mongers were wrong, just as they are now.

I'm not as confident as saddlerken this time round, I think the play offs are out of reach as it stands...but if we can make two key signings in the next week or so then it is a possibility. We'll be closer to the top 6 than the relegation places. If we don't make those signing then we'll be lower mid-table.


Absolutely. We have a very good goalkeeper, three very good centre backs, an excellent left back and, hopefully in Weston, a good right back. A better defence than most in the division, in other words. Because of the infamous "negative" way the midfield is set up, that makes us even more solid. We won't concede many. Teams who don't concede many don't tend to get relegated. The worry of course is that we won't score many either - so we need either Butler playing and firing on all cylinders again (seems unlikely), or a new striker in to partner Mooney. Another midfielder would be welcome too. If we get those I think we'll have a comfortable season, but even if we don't then I doubt we'll be in a relegation battle, we're just too solid defensively.

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Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:25 am

Overall not too disappointed with the result. We tried to play a decent enough game but fell short of ideas in the creativity stakes. Even so, Mooney had two good attempts on goal which on another occasion he would have taken.

The defence looked pretty solid although it is obvious Wrack isn't in his rightful position. Both Gerrard and Dann played well and couldn't really be faulted for the two well taken swansea goals.

In midfield Dobson and Sonner done as well as they could. They done the simple thinge effectively BUT they are not box to box players and as a result there was no support for the forwards.

Having slated Fox on saturday i will say he played well tonight although it is his effectiveness and not his effort that should be questioned. Far too often he went to support the forwards leaving Boertien exposed.

We played a mixture of short and long football. The short was pretty static and immobile (no pace) and the direct approach was nullified as Caneiro has the anticipation of an ant. Quite rightly taken off at half time.

Nicholls showed exactly what he is when he came on. A youngster, and very naiive to boot. Far from being our saviour i'm afraid.

From what i've seen tonight we need a box to box midfielder, pacy winger and a player to support the excellent mooney.

Nothing new there then.

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Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:40 am

Sod it. Here goes.

Match report from yours truly.




""Prior to setting off for Swansea I found myself questioning my wisdom in travelling to deepest Wales on a Tuesday night for the first round of the Carling cup. Ten hours and 323 miles later coupled with a 0-2 defeat I am convinced I am slightly insane. Not that I was alone. At least 200 others should seek medical attention forthwith.

Richard Money started as expected with the same eleven who kicked off against Carlisle and still no sign of Butler who didn't make the bench.

Walsall started off fairly brightly controlling the first 20 minutes with some fairly decent passing. It wasn't the slick pass and movement you see from top notch teams but more of a struggle and a grunt to get things going.

As early as the third minute the home side were carved open and Fox really should have done much better than to launch the ball high into the empty stand from the edge of the box when released by Paul Hall.

Saddlers had other chances too. Moony failed in a one on one with De Vries (I think that's who it was in the Swans goal) and the home keeper also denied Mooney again following a good cross from Fox.

Swansea gradually came into the game and in the same manner as Carlisle they passed and attacked the flanks with pace and ease. The two teams by contrast were an elegant figure skater Vs a twenty stone lardy on ice with a bottle of Stella and twenty fags.

With their first shot of the game the Swans took the lead after 20 minutes. No-one was particularly at fault but a poor headed clearance fell just outside the box, no-one closed it down and it was volleyed rocket like past the startled Ince.

Swansea then went on to dominate without threatening further.

Walsall mixed it up with some clumsy short passing and longer balls over the top.

Unfortunately the longer balls into the channels were not working because Caneiro had the anticipation and movement off the ball on a sliding scale from 0 - 10 as somewhere between nought and zero. He didn't have a clue what he was supposed to be doing.

On the rare occasions he got near the ball he lost out to man mountain Austin. No surprise really given the size of his marker. Welcome to the Football League. Ouch!

Sonner and Dobson played as well as they could. They done the simple things effectively but what was missing was an energy in the middle of the park. A box to box player. We are as suspected far too static and this is something that needs to be remedied if we are to have an impact on League One.

Fox gave his all. He ran, passed and looked for the ball but his actual effectiveness in the overall game plan should be questioned, not his effort .

Whether or not he was following instructions or not I do not know but whenever he passed he always ended up behind the strikers as if to give support. Sadly this left Boertien hopelessly exposed at times particularly when Swansea broke on the counter attack.

One nil down at the break but there was still hope. For all their superior skill and pace they had only threatened the visiting goal on the one occasion.

During the interval Caneiro was hauled off and Nicholls put onto the wing. Paul Hall moved up front with Mooney.

During the first ten minutes Saddlers had boat loads of corners but none from which they looked like scoring. The game continued in the same pattern as the first half.

The added width and pace expected from Nicholls just didn't happen. He looked every bit the youngster he really is. On one occasion he skilfully beat his player and with 3 visiting attackers looking for a neat cross he lost his head and went for glory. He failed.

Midway through the second period Mooney almost drew the visitors level. A short corner was returned to Sonner who crossed to the back stick. Mooney's powerful downward header was kept out by the home keeper's foot on the line more by luck than judgement.

For the last 10 minutes the gaffer through caution to the wind sending Scott Dann up front. It had little effect other than to expose us further to counter attacks as expected. In the dying seconds Swansea scored a second which their overall good play deserved.

The winger moved in off the flank before thwacking an almighty thunderbolt straight into the top corner.

Other than the two great goals they scored Swansea only had one other clear cut chance. A defence splitting pass needed Ince to win his one on one situation.

Overall can't really grumble with the effort but, we need someone to link up front with Mooney, a box to box midfielder and a bit of pace down the flanks.

Man of the match once again was Tommy Mooney. Head and shoulders above his team mates.""

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Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:15 am

Thanks for the report, Cannock. Most informative.

stefano123 wrote:
Purple Toucan Saddler wrote:
Hey Stef, was that you on the radio, if so, can I have your autograpgh :lol:


I'll c what i can do just send me a PM stamp addressed envelope and a blank cheque...

Who should i make it out to? :D


"To my number one fan" :twisted:

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SheffieldSaddler
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Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:16 am

I know this might be a silly question, but if the defence was "solid" and "immense", how come they conceded 2 goals? :roll:

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