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Birmingham City (H) 28/07/07

Reports and reaction from the 2007-08 season as Walsall finished 12th in League 1
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Duke
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Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:35 am

Max & Daddy wrote:
Bernie wrote:Can any member of the Martin Butler fan club who said the reason that he was disappointing during the second half of last season was that he was tired after taking the burden on his own for so many matches please come up with another excuse pretty fast?


I'm an active member of MWAS, not MBAS, whilst his performances at the end of last season were lacking, I think we are jumping the gun a bit to start sledging him based on his performance in nothing friendlies. I'm sure he will come good come the 11th of August.

Roll on Carlise and Butler and Mooney goals, and the Jackel can add a couple to.


I share your confidence in Butler . M&D

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Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:39 am

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
booster cogburn wrote:
WSOne wrote:Decent game, decent performance. Impressed with Boertien and Mooney, especially the former. However, we do not have enough quality to challenge at the right end of the table.


This is EXACTLY the sort of comment that makes me hate pre-season friendlies like these. People jump to too many knee-jerk conclusions too quickly.

Same goes for those who have decided we're going to have a good season based on that showing yesterday.


Hear, hear. What we got was a good workout against a Premiership side (who look as if they'll struggle a bit, to say the least), out of which you should (and Money will be looking) for lessons. They're easy - Wrack is good cover for Weston, Boertien is a class above, Sonner and Dobson have a good understanding already (and look capable of bossing midfield) and I'm not sure about Butler/Mooney - especially as we livened up not when Ishy came on, but before that when Carneiro came on and we stopped wasting possession up front.


Is that post tongue in cheek Neil?

Initially you agree with Booster who says he can't understand why folk use-preason to make judgements on how a season will go... Then 10 words later you say Blues will struggle based on a 90 minute pre-season performance. :roll:

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Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:39 am

Bernie wrote:Can any member of the Martin Butler fan club who said the reason that he was disappointing during the second half of last season was that he was tired after taking the burden on his own for so many matches please come up with another excuse pretty fast?


That was a valid excuse at the end of last season. It wasn't yesterday.

Can those above supporting him please tell me where this hard work was? Mooney put him to shame. Butler did want to leave in the Summer as I said and in my opinion it showed yesterday. He doesn't look interested to me. It will be Mooney + 1 other and if yesterday is going to become the norm I'd make it Nicholls or Deeney. As someone said above it's the first time I've seen Nicholls since his injury and he's still lightning quick.

Overall though, first half wasn't brilliant but I thought we were very good in the second half and created lots of chances, not many of them clear cut although it would have been nice to see a couple more on target.

After his suspension, DD has to bite the bullet and start with Ishmel if we want to have anything going forward. I thought Dobson played well and looked fitter than at most times last season, not sure about Sonner still but it could work if DD is prepared to use others and provide competition for places.

Wrack made a fool of those who say he's not fit enough any more. He was excellent at right back and was keeping up with McSheffrey and others right to the end. If Weston is first choice right back Wrack should still be able to find a place to deputise for Hall or in the middle instead of Sonner.

Star of the show by a mile though was Boertien. He was so comfortable and composed on the ball yet tough in the tackle. IF he can stay fit we've got a gem and if Ishmel can prove to DD that he can be trusted then it means we don't have to see more poor set pieces from Fox.

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Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:45 am

Magic Man Fan wrote:
Bernie wrote:Can any member of the Martin Butler fan club who said the reason that he was disappointing during the second half of last season was that he was tired after taking the burden on his own for so many matches please come up with another excuse pretty fast?


That was a valid excuse at the end of last season. It wasn't yesterday.

Can those above supporting him please tell me where this hard work was? Mooney put him to shame. Butler did want to leave in the Summer as I said and in my opinion it showed yesterday. He doesn't look interested to me. It will be Mooney + 1 other and if yesterday is going to become the norm I'd make it Nicholls or Deeney. As someone said above it's the first time I've seen Nicholls since his injury and he's still lightning quick.

Overall though, first half wasn't brilliant but I thought we were very good in the second half and created lots of chances, not many of them clear cut although it would have been nice to see a couple more on target.

After his suspension, DD has to bite the bullet and start with Ishmel if we want to have anything going forward. I thought Dobson played well and looked fitter than at most times last season, not sure about Sonner still but it could work if DD is prepared to use others and provide competition for places.

Wrack made a fool of those who say he's not fit enough any more. He was excellent at right back and was keeping up with McSheffrey and others right to the end. If Weston is first choice right back Wrack should still be able to find a place to deputise for Hall or in the middle instead of Sonner.

Star of the show by a mile though was Boertien. He was so comfortable and composed on the ball yet tough in the tackle. IF he can stay fit we've got a gem and if Ishmel can prove to DD that he can be trusted then it means we don't have to see more poor set pieces from Fox.


I think it's a wait and see, if Butler is still after a move, is looking unhungry the best way to encourage a potential new employer?

It's pre-season, let's face it how interested were we, let alone the players, crowd was quiet and unexcited, they players are just getting a runout.

Re: Wrack I thought he was good yesterday, but you can tell he needs some games in that position. He played the blues on a few times in the second half when the rest of the line was pushed up. If you remember blues fluffed up a good few breaks to the line in the second half. We were in just the right place to see it albeit we had a few distractions. I'd like to see Wrack more regulary this season, and I'd also like to see him give the free kicks again, we weren't very good at them yesterday.

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Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:00 pm

More plus than minus mooney and boertien was impressive caneiro look useful butler will have to start performaning soon or he will be out the team roper looks his usual start of the season self i thought it was big baz playing centre half today

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Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:08 pm

Max & Daddy wrote:
Magic Man Fan wrote:
Bernie wrote:Can any member of the Martin Butler fan club who said the reason that he was disappointing during the second half of last season was that he was tired after taking the burden on his own for so many matches please come up with another excuse pretty fast?


That was a valid excuse at the end of last season. It wasn't yesterday.

Can those above supporting him please tell me where this hard work was? Mooney put him to shame. Butler did want to leave in the Summer as I said and in my opinion it showed yesterday. He doesn't look interested to me. It will be Mooney + 1 other and if yesterday is going to become the norm I'd make it Nicholls or Deeney. As someone said above it's the first time I've seen Nicholls since his injury and he's still lightning quick.

Overall though, first half wasn't brilliant but I thought we were very good in the second half and created lots of chances, not many of them clear cut although it would have been nice to see a couple more on target.

After his suspension, DD has to bite the bullet and start with Ishmel if we want to have anything going forward. I thought Dobson played well and looked fitter than at most times last season, not sure about Sonner still but it could work if DD is prepared to use others and provide competition for places.

Wrack made a fool of those who say he's not fit enough any more. He was excellent at right back and was keeping up with McSheffrey and others right to the end. If Weston is first choice right back Wrack should still be able to find a place to deputise for Hall or in the middle instead of Sonner.

Star of the show by a mile though was Boertien. He was so comfortable and composed on the ball yet tough in the tackle. IF he can stay fit we've got a gem and if Ishmel can prove to DD that he can be trusted then it means we don't have to see more poor set pieces from Fox.


I think it's a wait and see, if Butler is still after a move, is looking unhungry the best way to encourage a potential new employer?

It's pre-season, let's face it how interested were we, let alone the players, crowd was quiet and unexcited, they players are just getting a runout.


I agree and I won't be basing my thoughts on one game on Butler but you can at least look interested whether it's a pre-season game or not. He certainly didn't work hard as some suggest. I'm hoping he doesn't seem that bothered because he knows we're about to sign another striker that might jeopardise his place, we might need him unless Caneiro starts (who looked tidy if unspectacular.)

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Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:12 pm

Magic Man Fan wrote:I agree and I won't be basing my thoughts on one game on Butler but you can at least look interested whether it's a pre-season game or not. He certainly didn't work hard as some suggest. I'm hoping he doesn't seem that bothered because he knows we're about to sign another striker that might jeopardise his place, we might need him unless Caneiro starts (who looked tidy if unspectacular.)


Did you not see his barnet? And you're having a go at the players for not looking interested :wink:

Can't wait for [post moderated] to sign will really give Butler the boot he needs.

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Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:18 pm

Where did Butler want to go? Did the club turn down an offer, or did he just want a free transfer?

I would not have worried about him leaving. Especially since if he had gone one of this board's most nauseating posters would have handed in his season ticket.

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Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:25 pm

Bernie wrote:Where did Butler want to go? Did the club turn down an offer, or did he just want a free transfer?

I would not have worried about him leaving. Especially since if he had gone one of this board's most nauseating posters would have handed in his season ticket.


Now, I know you're the pot - but who's the kettle?

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Turnstiles at Blues game

Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:12 pm

I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned the monumental c*ck-up at Bescot, yesterday, regarding the number of turnstiles open for Blues fans. Only ONE of the three entrances was open for the Family Stand (and one for the Homeserve Stand). As a result, 5 minutes before kick-off, the queue snaked back, from the turnstile, right to the back, and round, the visitors' car park. Spectators were still coming in at 3-30 p.m.

O.K., I know that the Blues' fans could have got there a bit earlier but I would have thought that even WFC would have realised that there would be a lot of visiting fans, yesterday. To have only 1 or 2 turnstiles working, out of a possible 6, was ridiculous. Things could have turned nasty.

Memo to to the staff - there may be a few more than usual visiting fans when we play the Villa!

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Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:44 pm

[Leamore Saddler]I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned the monumental c*ck-up at Bescot, yesterday, regarding the number of turnstiles open for Blues fans. Only ONE of the three entrances was open for the Family Stand (and one for the Homeserve Stand). As a result, 5 minutes before kick-off, the queue snaked back, from the turnstile, right to the back, and round, the visitors' car park. Spectators were still coming in at 3-30 p.m.

O.K., I know that the Blues' fans could have got there a bit earlier but I would have thought that even WFC would have realised that there would be a lot of visiting fans, yesterday. To have only 1 or 2 turnstiles working, out of a possible 6, was ridiculous. Things could have turned nasty.

Fact 4 turnstiles open for tickets at the homeserve stand plus 2 for cash, also 2 cash turnstiles open on the WBBS which was increased to 4 once Homeserve stand was full.
They also had chance to purchase tickets weeks before game 5000 sent to blues sold 1300 - 1500.
With people on holiday maybe they did not have enough staff to open all turnstiles.

[/quote]

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Neil Ravenscroft
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Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:46 pm

Stu wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
booster cogburn wrote:
WSOne wrote:Decent game, decent performance. Impressed with Boertien and Mooney, especially the former. However, we do not have enough quality to challenge at the right end of the table.


This is EXACTLY the sort of comment that makes me hate pre-season friendlies like these. People jump to too many knee-jerk conclusions too quickly.

Same goes for those who have decided we're going to have a good season based on that showing yesterday.


Hear, hear. What we got was a good workout against a Premiership side (who look as if they'll struggle a bit, to say the least), out of which you should (and Money will be looking) for lessons. They're easy - Wrack is good cover for Weston, Boertien is a class above, Sonner and Dobson have a good understanding already (and look capable of bossing midfield) and I'm not sure about Butler/Mooney - especially as we livened up not when Ishy came on, but before that when Carneiro came on and we stopped wasting possession up front.


Is that post tongue in cheek Neil?

Initially you agree with Booster who says he can't understand why folk use-preason to make judgements on how a season will go... Then 10 words later you say Blues will struggle based on a 90 minute pre-season performance. :roll:


Not really, in their case, Stu. Although it is notoriously difficult to judge performances in friendlies, I did think their midfield four looked very weak against ours even, at least until Nafti came on, when it had a better balance, I thought. It could be a very long season for them, unless Olivier Kapo makes a difference.

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Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:51 pm

Think Blues will be ok, there are some poor sides in the Premier League, just waiting to be relegated, get you're money on Bolton. Then Possibly Fulham, and Sunderland, who have spent near to twenty millon on tat

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Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:06 pm

Blazing_Saddler wrote:Think Blues will be ok, there are some poor sides in the Premier League, just waiting to be relegated, get you're money on Bolton. Then Possibly Fulham, and Sunderland, who have spent near to twenty millon on tat


And wigan.

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Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:07 pm

Blazing_Saddler wrote:Think Blues will be ok, there are some poor sides in the Premier League, just waiting to be relegated, get you're money on Bolton. Then Possibly Fulham, and Sunderland, who have spent near to twenty millon on tat


Have to agree about Sunderland! I'd also add Wigan to your list, but Blues will have to be careful. They don't have a lot of strength in depth in midfield and I think they have only one striker, Forssell, capable of scoring regularly at that level.

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Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:18 pm

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
Blazing_Saddler wrote:Think Blues will be ok, there are some poor sides in the Premier League, just waiting to be relegated, get you're money on Bolton. Then Possibly Fulham, and Sunderland, who have spent near to twenty millon on tat


Have to agree about Sunderland! I'd also add Wigan to your list, but Blues will have to be careful. They don't have a lot of strength in depth in midfield and I think they have only one striker, Forssell, capable of scoring regularly at that level.



Derby, Wigan and one other to go down for me.

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Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:03 pm

Pheasey_Saddler wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
Blazing_Saddler wrote:Think Blues will be ok, there are some poor sides in the Premier League, just waiting to be relegated, get you're money on Bolton. Then Possibly Fulham, and Sunderland, who have spent near to twenty millon on tat


Have to agree about Sunderland! I'd also add Wigan to your list, but Blues will have to be careful. They don't have a lot of strength in depth in midfield and I think they have only one striker, Forssell, capable of scoring regularly at that level.



Derby, Wigan and one other to go down for me.


exactly what ive been saying. wigan were poor last year and now theyve lost jewell i think theyll be in trouble. derby dont have a strong squad or the money to buy themselves out of trouble.

ive a sneaky suspiscion that middlesborgh may be down there as they are lacking strikers with losing viduka and maybe yakubu. however they do have money to spend in january if they are in trouble so could survive.

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Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:23 pm

Max & Daddy wrote:
Bernie wrote:Can any member of the Martin Butler fan club who said the reason that he was disappointing during the second half of last season was that he was tired after taking the burden on his own for so many matches please come up with another excuse pretty fast?


I'm an active member of MWAS, not MBAS, whilst his performances at the end of last season were lacking, I think we are jumping the gun a bit to start sledging him based on his performance in nothing friendlies. I'm sure he will come good come the 11th of August.

Roll on Carlisle and Butler and Mooney goals, and the Jackal can add a couple to.


Here, Here!

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Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:46 pm

LancsSaddler wrote:
Pheasey_Saddler wrote:
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
Blazing_Saddler wrote:Think Blues will be ok, there are some poor sides in the Premier League, just waiting to be relegated, get you're money on Bolton. Then Possibly Fulham, and Sunderland, who have spent near to twenty millon on tat


Have to agree about Sunderland! I'd also add Wigan to your list, but Blues will have to be careful. They don't have a lot of strength in depth in midfield and I think they have only one striker, Forssell, capable of scoring regularly at that level.



Derby, Wigan and one other to go down for me.


exactly what ive been saying. wigan were poor last year and now theyve lost jewell i think theyll be in trouble. derby dont have a strong squad or the money to buy themselves out of trouble.

ive a sneaky suspiscion that middlesborgh may be down there as they are lacking strikers with losing viduka and maybe yakubu. however they do have money to spend in january if they are in trouble so could survive.


Bolton will struggle imo , not sure they'll be relegated , but reckon a bottom half finish

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Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:08 pm

i DONT USUALLY GO TO FRIENDLIES BUT I DROVE UP TO WALSALL BECAUSE I WAS KEEN TO SEE A FEW OF THE NEW FACES
BOERTIEN LOOKED EXCELLENT AND I WAS PLEASED WITH CARLOS WHEN HE CAME ON
A GOOD WORK OUT AGAINST PREMIERSHIP PLAYERS, NOTHING MORE THAN THAT REALLY
LOTS OF BLUES FANS MADE ATHE ATTENDANCE RESPECTABLE
SURELY THERE WAS MORE TO THE HALF TIME FIASCO THAN SOMEONE GRABBING A QUICK FAG! IT COULD HAPPEN OFTEN IF THATS THE CASE
GOT MY TICKETS FOR CARLISLE ME AND THE LAD ARE ALREADY LOOKING FORWARD TO THE SEASON
COME ON YOU SADDLERS

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Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:42 pm

Daventry Saddler wrote:i DONT USUALLY GO TO FRIENDLIES BUT I DROVE UP TO WALSALL BECAUSE I WAS KEEN TO SEE A FEW OF THE NEW FACES
BOERTIEN LOOKED EXCELLENT AND I WAS PLEASED WITH CARLOS WHEN HE CAME ON
A GOOD WORK OUT AGAINST PREMIERSHIP PLAYERS, NOTHING MORE THAN THAT REALLY
LOTS OF BLUES FANS MADE ATHE ATTENDANCE RESPECTABLE
SURELY THERE WAS MORE TO THE HALF TIME FIASCO THAN SOMEONE GRABBING A QUICK FAG! IT COULD HAPPEN OFTEN IF THATS THE CASE
GOT MY TICKETS FOR CARLISLE ME AND THE LAD ARE ALREADY LOOKING FORWARD TO THE SEASON
COME ON YOU SADDLERS


Whoa! Caps Lock DS

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Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:45 pm

I thought first half we were poor, although to take positives sonner passed the ball well, hall muscled down the wing and other then the two goals we were generally to a league one standard. Special mention to Forsell who i though was particularly lively in the first.
Although birmingham were a higher class there wasn't really to much of a difference, other then maybe the striking potentcy. Mooney won a few free kicks and whilst butler wasn't really involved in much, when he was -wasn't bad at all.



Second half, and a neautral wouldn't have known the difference between the two teams, We had chances , boertien overlapped and whilst we still lacked some potency we did pentrate, don't forget birmingham despite not looking it still had a solid premier league defence, that soaked our preussure well. Mooney led the line well and butler looked more active. When ishamel came on and boertian overlapped we looked a high league one standard, we lookd like we had width and looked aggresive like we would score goals.

The second half performance really changed my mind-set for this year. PLay like that and we shall be talking mid table and upwards.

Ince - Solid, Needs Kicking practice

Boertien - WHAT A SIGNING, this bloke shows higher quality then many left backs at walsall i've seen, very interesting to see if he doesn't get injured. He could be key

Gerrard- Nothing spectacular, not his best, not his worst,generally solid but looks mistake prone.

Roper - Very un-fit, did generally alright, other then that read gerrard.

Wrack - A surprisingly good performance, i thouight when mcsheffrey was on the list and wrack at right back, goals for city galore, in qracks defence mcsheffrey was kept quiet %95 of the time.

Dobbin - Another typical dobbo performance, solid at tackling,made a few good runs, had a shot blocked and got into positions a few times where he should of shot- were not arsenal you know dobbin. Still can't pass for anything.

Sonner- Was really impressed, spread the ball nicely, never lost the ball and generally ran the idfield very well, has a good set piece, and will no doubt set up a few next year. Good signing.

Fox - I thought had one of his better games, used the ball well, spread it nicely with some good long range passes, although still doesn't overlap, which is what's needed when attacking if we are to push for promotion.

Hall - Played well, especially second half, thought he muscled well. Not forgetting i've seen bigger midgets. He looks reasonably qucik if not eletric. Should provide some width and definetely set up and score a few.

Mooney - NIcely surprised actually, first half was slow and predictable but won a few good freekicks. I read his shotting record 1 goals in 20 shots and i can see why the chances he had he did nothing with, no excuses favoured foot or not. Second half really rose to the occation played well, held up the ball and yes looked far more interesting then butler.

Butler- Whilst not having a lively game, when he was involved did look ok. Still think he probably needs a bit more fitness and does lack pace. But when back to full fitness and is sharp again will be everything he was early last year.


Subs -

Nicholls - Didn't really have much time but had one good run.

Deeney - Same goes , looks lively

Carnerio - Looked more potent then butler and mooney put together, you never no he looks like a puff.

Ishy - A really good performance again, pacey, lively,looked interested, a few good runs and forced what was an excellent low save from a good premier league keeper. Definetely a key figure this year, even if he doesn't start often.

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Re: Turnstiles at Blues game

Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:27 am

Leamore Saddler wrote:I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned the monumental c*ck-up at Bescot, yesterday, regarding the number of turnstiles open for Blues fans. Only ONE of the three entrances was open for the Family Stand (and one for the Homeserve Stand). As a result, 5 minutes before kick-off, the queue snaked back, from the turnstile, right to the back, and round, the visitors' car park. Spectators were still coming in at 3-30 p.m.

O.K., I know that the Blues' fans could have got there a bit earlier but I would have thought that even WFC would have realised that there would be a lot of visiting fans, yesterday. To have only 1 or 2 turnstiles working, out of a possible 6, was ridiculous. Things could have turned nasty.

Memo to to the staff - there may be a few more than usual visiting fans when we play the Villa!


I didn't want to mention it in case any Hereford fans were reading. Like I said after the Hereford game, it was odd that our fans were saying it wouldn't happen at Bescot when it often does when there's a big game. For the sake of a friendly they should have opened every turnstile yesterday and taken cash instead of having wasted turnstiles where they were only taking tickets.

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Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:52 am

a2b wrote:Fact 4 turnstiles open for tickets at the homeserve stand plus 2 for cash, also 2 cash turnstiles open on the WBBS which was increased to 4 once Homeserve stand was full.
They also had chance to purchase tickets weeks before game 5000 sent to blues sold 1300 - 1500.
With people on holiday maybe they did not have enough staff to open all turnstiles.

The match was not all ticket, so it is totally unacceptable that fans who arrived in good time should miss the start of the match. It was an embarrasment to Walsall fans to see the huge line of Blues fans patiently waiting for admission.

There is no excuse for the mess that was made. I hope that the club will apologise to the Birmingham fans who had to queue for nearly an hour, some of whom missed the first 25 minutes, through no fault of their own.

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Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:16 am

Bernie wrote:
a2b wrote:Fact 4 turnstiles open for tickets at the homeserve stand plus 2 for cash, also 2 cash turnstiles open on the WBBS which was increased to 4 once Homeserve stand was full.
They also had chance to purchase tickets weeks before game 5000 sent to blues sold 1300 - 1500.
With people on holiday maybe they did not have enough staff to open all turnstiles.

The match was not all ticket, so it is totally unacceptable that fans who arrived in good time should miss the start of the match. It was an embarrasment to Walsall fans to see the huge line of Blues fans patiently waiting for admission.

There is no excuse for the mess that was made. I hope that the club will apologise to the Birmingham fans who had to queue for nearly an hour, some of whom missed the first 25 minutes, through no fault of their own.


same as Hereford apologised to us??

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Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:12 pm

Only just got online since Friday.

I thought the game totally vindicated my concerns about pace. Surely DD will now realise that if we are not going to have pace in the centre of midfield then we REALLY do need it on the wings. With Fox out left there was just no attacking intent. The support from the front two in the first half was very limited. Bring on Nicholls and Ishmel and what happens? We start to pin them back in their own third. If it can be done to a Premiership team it can be done to many League One teams. I still think we need a pacy alternative in the centre (but that's just my personal hobby horse).

Boertien was a class above most players (us and theirs). Hopefully he can stay injury free.

I caught the free bus to Tame Bridge Parkway after the game. Imagine my surprise when Ishmel (& friend/family) were on there as well. I thought it was only in the 1950's that players caught the bus home with the fans :D

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Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:29 am

tinned wrote:Only just got online since Friday.

I thought the game totally vindicated my concerns about pace. Surely DD will now realise that if we are not going to have pace in the centre of midfield then we REALLY do need it on the wings. With Fox out left there was just no attacking intent. The support from the front two in the first half was very limited. Bring on Nicholls and Ishmel and what happens? We start to pin them back in their own third. If it can be done to a Premiership team it can be done to many League One teams. I still think we need a pacy alternative in the centre (but that's just my personal hobby horse).


I think you were watching a different game. We actually had MORE pace in central midfield (their "pacy" threat was from Jerome) than they did and certainly passed the ball better than they did. As for "pinning them back in their third" when Nicholls and Ishy came on, I thought they were, at that point, pushing us back and we were hitting them on the break, which is where the extra pace was useful - but, of course, they had, by then, made changes in their defence and it was Carneiro's extra mobility that had made the big difference.

I think you're pandering to your personal hobby horse, as witnessed by most people on here rating Dobson and Sonner's perfrormances.

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Ned_Kelly
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Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:22 am

Max & Daddy wrote:
Magic Man Fan wrote:I agree and I won't be basing my thoughts on one game on Butler but you can at least look interested whether it's a pre-season game or not. He certainly didn't work hard as some suggest. I'm hoping he doesn't seem that bothered because he knows we're about to sign another striker that might jeopardise his place, we might need him unless Caneiro starts (who looked tidy if unspectacular.)


Did you not see his barnet? And you're having a go at the players for not looking interested :wink:

Can't wait for [post moderated] to sign will really give Butler the boot he needs.


As long as it's not "canary yellow" :D

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Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:48 am

Sorry Neil --totally agree with tinned. Our lack of pace in the first half was embarrasing.It was only when Ishmel came on that we posed any serious threat.

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Ned_Kelly
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Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:00 am

m&m wrote:Sorry Neil --totally agree with tinned. Our lack of pace in the first half was embarrasing.It was only when Ishmel came on that we posed any serious threat.


Would that be against a much better team who have better training facilities, better coaching and play 2 divisions above us

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