Wrexham (h) League- Saturday 28/04/07

[Stu]

Stu-- hate , when we are TOP :shock:

Aye, hate... To be frank, we've been awful to watch for the majority of the season and I've been bored rigid in most matches. I've happily put up with it because we're top mind you, but I've still been bored rigid a lot of the time.

At the risk of being hung, drawn and quartered, if I woke up tomorrow morning to find DD had done a runner to another club, I wouldn't really be that bothered to be honest with you. I know that my old man and brother feel exactly the same way as well. Appreciate what he has done, but I've not taken to him like I did Graydon for example.

[Registered Saddler]

Stu - depends how you describe entertainment.
Manchester United
West Brom
Colchester
Blackpool
Accrington Stanley
Stockport
Peterborough
That's the full list of teams who have scored more home goals than us. So, assuming that teams tend to do the majority of their attacking at home, that puts us eighth in the country. We score goals, we win matches. I don't know what more people expect? A lot of missed chances?

Sure, we work on keeping it tight at the back first and foremost, but I think that is Money's style. I think we probably need to play exactly the same way next season - and I don't see it not working. If, however, we aren't winning games then I can't see DD continuing in the same manner if we're losing week after week. He's shown us often enough this season that he is astute enough to change things round when needs must.

[Stu]

Stu - depends how you describe entertainment.
Manchester United
West Brom
Colchester
Blackpool
Accrington Stanley
Stockport
Peterborough
That's the full list of teams who have scored more home goals than us. So, assuming that teams tend to do the majority of their attacking at home, that puts us eighth in the country. We score goals, we win matches. I don't know what more people expect? A lot of missed chances?

Sure, we work on keeping it tight at the back first and foremost, but I think that is Money's style. I think we probably need to play exactly the same way next season - and I don't see it not working. If, however, we aren't winning games then I can't see DD continuing in the same manner if we're losing week after week. He's shown us often enough this season that he is astute enough to change things round when needs must.

I'm not one of those that classes goals as entertainment, so that doesn't really wash with me.

Personally, I like to see the football kept on the ground. I'm a traditionalist, give me 4-4-2. In that, I want one striker who can hold a ball up, one striker with a bit of nip and pace to stretch a team over the top if needed. I like to see one midfielder with the ability to get ahead of his forwards, and most importantly, by a country mile, I love watching wide men. Proper wide men, who provide width, hug a touchline, run with the ball and put the ball across the face of goal.

I don't enjoy seeing fullbacks immitating wingers, I don't enjoy seeing two midfielders sitting deep, I don't enjoy 20 yard gaps between my midfield pair and my central striking pair. I don't enjoy seeing constant balls lumped up into the channels or to a bumbling Trevor Benjamin.

Maybe I'm just naive instead.

[Atomic Rooster]

Done what was needed a win and its now back in our own hands.I thought gerrard was solid and had his best game for a while wrighty in the second half was back to how he was playing early in the season full of confidence.We seem to struggle with the full backs again but apart from that :D :D :D

[Bristol Fan]

Stu-- hate , when we are TOP :shock:

Aye, hate... To be frank, we've been awful to watch for the majority of the season and I've been bored rigid in most matches. I've happily put up with it because we're top mind you, but I've still been bored rigid a lot of the time.

Indeed. I've been delighted to put up with it because of the results - we're top now, we deserve to be top, and the manager has done exactly the right things to get us there. If we play the same way next season then we certainly won't be pulling up any trees, so the acid test is to see whether we start approaching things differently. We're up because of an outstanding defence, but we'll need a little more ambition next season. It's been painful to watch most of the "football" in this division - we're the best of a very, very bad bunch - but at the same time a joy to keep getting the results, time and again.

I can't really believe it, but I can't be bothered to go to Swindon next week, even though it's a rare match for me that is within a hundred miles of here, and there is a title at stake.

[sj]

Stu-- fair point, well made and I agree with you about Sir Ray

[Whitti Steve]

I was disappointed when Ishy went off - but it was the correct decision for his sake. Surely it is obvious that Money had to take him off. Fair play to Ishy for keeping his cool - esp in the first half when their players had him marked as a target to "thump". Then Ishy made his one mistake of the game - shortly after winning it for us - he gets a silly booking (I know it's a stupid rule - but they all know the rule, and we all knew the bookingwas coming). Therefore once the manager see him react to what was a terrible challenge - he had no choice.*



EDIT * OK - he had a choice - but I think he made the right one, and we should now see him next week too!

[PT]

Appreciate what he has done, but I've not taken to him like I did Graydon for example.

just thinking back to Rays first magnificant season. He took over a club where discipline had become a stranger and set about instilling some work ethic and organisation. He succeeded on the back of loads of 1-0's with the ole warhorse bagging most of the goals. There were lots of backs to the wall victories where sheer guts and a fantastic back 5 dug us out. Not too much entertainment on view then either but it was really effective.

Rings very familiar to me.

BUT......I do hold money in slightly less regard, not because of the football but bcause of his rant before the lincoln game at us, the paying punters. If, at the end of the campaign, he reflects on that and is man enough to admit his mistake then my opinion of him will be about as high as it could be.

[Duke]

A Much improved second half by all accounts, the same as Bury except we scored . we need a 90+ performace to get anything from Swindon.

[Kiansmom]

Good three points, combined with the monkey hangers' mess-up (shame about that ref, eh?). One thing amused me - TWO onto Ishy every time he was near the ball, yet this is only his second start of the year? Sounds like we've got a great little winger on our hands. Hopefully he'll have a bit more space and respect in League One, rather than get tonked by the cloggers and carthorses down here.

Yeh it's funny aint it... two games in a row he's been the best performer, but he's only played around 100 minutes in 2007. What a waste

Aye, his lack of playing time is nearly as disappointing as the decision to take him off today. For a team, who at that time were top of the league, to make such a defensive substitution against a team so poor really was quite disappointing. I bet the Wrexham fans and management were thanking their lucky stars when they saw Ishmel coming off.

And before anyone rambles on about discipline, he held his discipline superbly. He may have reacted to the Ref after that disgraceful late boot, but he did what any player would have done in that position.

I know we won, I know we're top, but that decision summed up exactly why I hate the tactics we've used this season, far too defensive.

I think it was the right decision to take him off considering he was on a yellow card, If he had done something stupid it would have been red, at least this way he has the chance to play at Swindon

[Neil Ravenscroft]

Match report:

http://upthesaddlers.com/wp/archives/20 ... am-report/

You mean there are people who actually wouldn't have taken Ishy off? I don't really blame him for getting upset over a disgusting challenge, but he had to be hooked.

[Chomper]

There were three or four challenges similar, which went unpunished. I'm not one for wrapping people in cotton wool but he should have had more protection from the ref and i think he may well get it next week, hopefully because we'll have a more competant offical (touching wood as i type)...

What a talent though, and was it no surprise that when we have width and attacking intent down BOTH FLANKS, Wrighty has a good game also. Wonder why that was!!!!!!!! :wink:

[Magic Man Fan]

BUT......I do hold money in slightly less regard, not because of the football but bcause of his rant before the lincoln game at us, the paying punters. If, at the end of the campaign, he reflects on that and is man enough to admit his mistake then my opinion of him will be about as high as it could be.

He pretty much did to a small percentage of fans after the game in the Bonser Suite when he made a bit of a speech accepting his MOTM award. He said we had a wobbly patch in the middle where we all said things we shouldn't have but we came through it and achieved what we set out to do.

Agree with Stu and Bristol though but I think we will see a slightly different slant next season depending on who we bring in but I do expect us to see a lot of pace.

With regards to the match.

Defensively, good as ever, Westy was very good. Bedeau isn't a right back but I think DD was playing both him and right to make his mind up about them for next season. On that showing Bedeau will hopefully be gone and Wright won't.

Fox was average at best. Rob, watch him closely, he might win a few headers and tackles but will then nearly EVERY time kick the ball against an opposing player or float an aimless ball to their defence, both of which concede possession. We risk losing a good footballer and a better full back (proved in this first half season stats) in Taylor in the Summer and it should be the other way round in my opinion. Pead did well when he came on, as I've said through the season, he's dependable and good cover in a few positions. I still think he may be gone in the Summer though.

Midfield was as usual with Dobson and Keates. Dobson played well yesterday I thought and KEates was the same as he has been recently.

Wright was quiet first half with the odd foray here and there but he still did some good things despite not having the ball that often. Someone mentioned about him looking up before he crosses, I sort of agree but some managers just tell players to get the ball in the danger area, unfortunately if he's telling Wright to do that he's not telling Butler and Benjamin to do the same cos they're hardly ever there. :roll: It was a great run for the goal and like phil says it's a shame he doesn't have the confidence to kick it past full backs and get past them more often. If fans are more patient with him and support him like yesterday then we might see it more often. The moment after the goal when he went past the full back then a heavy touch kicked it out of play summed his season up.

Ishy proved again why a few of us have been calling to see more of him all season. It's quite obvious to see his talent because we saw it several times last season. As I said last week, he's got pace and no defenders at this level can handle it. There's often 2/3 defenders marking him but he still gets past them at times which gives him more space to run into when he does.

Butler worked hard, made runs blah blah blah all to no effect. I had to laugh at one incident in the second half when a ball/free kick? was played to the far post and got flicked towards the Banks's Stand. He just outside the 6 yard box on that side of the pitch and would have been clear favourite to get the ball and get a cross but instead watched for a couple of seconds until the defender had gone past him then he bothered to move, they won the throw in and lots of people sing his name for making the token run I have been talking about for a while. As I say, watch a bit more closely. And yet once again he's still the one to stay on the pitch when Sam comes on. And his first touch was awful throughout the game, it really was. And knackered or not it doesn't matter when it comes to first touch. :?

Benjamin - I thought in the first half he was very good. His first touch was excellent often holding the ball up with a good chest down or good touch, then held the ball up and layed it off simple. Exactly what Butler was doing before Xmas but seems to have forgotten how. He wore off in second half and as Butlers contract says he has to play every minute of every game I wasn't surprised to see him go off.

All in all a very typical of this season display and it was job done which is all that matters. And if we'd done that in the first half last week we'd have won the title but now but it certainly sets up the match at Swindon. Everything to play for for both sides and it could be another Notts County style away day now we can win the title. I hope so anyway. :D

[Bristol Fan]

Wright was quiet first half with the odd foray here and there but he still did some good things despite not having the ball that often. Someone mentioned about him looking up before he crosses, I sort of agree but some managers just tell players to get the ball in the danger area, unfortunately if he's telling Wright to do that he's not telling Butler and Benjamin to do the same cos they're hardly ever there. :roll:

This is one of the most frustrating things about our play - the forwards' movement. We finally (after years of waiting) have a striker who can win flick-ons, Benjamin, but his partner is never within ten yards of him to take the benefit. There's no point humping long balls to Benjamin to flick on - which we do, and which he wins - if Butler isn't running behind him to pick up the pieces. Equally, there's no point playing two pacey wingers (which admittedly, we don't do very often) if the strikers don't bust a gut to get into the box when they're making their runs. A pacey striker is the missing ingredient.

I can't really understand what's happened with Hector Sam. He's not brilliant, but he was played time and again when struggling for form earlier in the season, but as soon as he actually hit some form he was dropped. I think Benjamin has generally done OK and offers us something nobody else does, and clearly it should have been Butler and not him who came off yesterday, but it was very harsh on Sam to find himself out of the team just when he was looking like a really dangerous player.

[Stu]

Match report:

http://upthesaddlers.com/wp/archives/20 ... am-report/

You mean there are people who actually wouldn't have taken Ishy off? I don't really blame him for getting upset over a disgusting challenge, but he had to be hooked.

Why would I have taken him off? He didn't react to the player. He reacted as any other player would have to a tackle like that.

Instead, we spent the rest of the match on the backfoot in my opinion as we lost a big attacking outlet, we were back down to a single option in Mark Wright.

Of course he reacted to that challenge, who wouldn't, but last season he'd have shoved that player to the ground before any of our lot got too him. Instead, after complaining to the ref, Keates kept him away from the situation and Ishy let him do that and walked away too.

For me, it was a horribly negative thing to do.

[PerStener]

Match report:

http://upthesaddlers.com/wp/archives/20 ... am-report/

You mean there are people who actually wouldn't have taken Ishy off? I don't really blame him for getting upset over a disgusting challenge, but he had to be hooked.

Why would I have taken him off? He didn't react to the player. He reacted as any other player would have to a tackle like that.

Instead, we spent the rest of the match on the backfoot in my opinion as we lost a big attacking outlet, we were back down to a single option in Mark Wright.

Of course he reacted to that challenge, who wouldn't, but last season he'd have shoved that player to the ground before any of our lot got too him. Instead, after complaining to the ref, Keates kept him away from the situation and Ishy let him do that and walked away too.

For me, it was a horribly negative thing to do.

Ishy already had a yellow card and we know he can be a bit instabile in some of his reactions and the opposition is very aware of this too and might try and play on this advantage to get him pick up a 2nd bookable or a straigt red card.

Even if we got more static and not as offensive after Ishy went of its better then risk ending the match with 10 players.

[WFC_Rob]

Fox was average at best. Rob, watch him closely, he might win a few headers and tackles but will then nearly EVERY time kick the ball against an opposing player or float an aimless ball to their defence, both of which concede possession.

I see what you're saying about Fox, and I make a point of watching him closely as I still believe people need to look at the bigger picture. Nearly every time, he is forced to play a long 'aimless' ball because Richard Money decides to play with such a narrow midfield that he has no-one to pass to.
A number of times yesterday, he put his foot on the ball, looked up and found no-one. He was crying out for Ishmel to show him the ball down the line, but Ishmel was never in a wide enough position to receive the ball (mainly in the first half). I don't blame Ishmel for that, because I think he's told to play narrow by the manager.

I'm far from thinking that Fox has been anything much above average this season, but he's not the useless footballer people make out he is.

[Stu]

Match report:

http://upthesaddlers.com/wp/archives/20 ... am-report/

You mean there are people who actually wouldn't have taken Ishy off? I don't really blame him for getting upset over a disgusting challenge, but he had to be hooked.

Why would I have taken him off? He didn't react to the player. He reacted as any other player would have to a tackle like that.

Instead, we spent the rest of the match on the backfoot in my opinion as we lost a big attacking outlet, we were back down to a single option in Mark Wright.

Of course he reacted to that challenge, who wouldn't, but last season he'd have shoved that player to the ground before any of our lot got too him. Instead, after complaining to the ref, Keates kept him away from the situation and Ishy let him do that and walked away too.

For me, it was a horribly negative thing to do.

Ishy already had a yellow card and we know he can be a bit instabile in some of his reactions and the opposition is very aware of this too and might try and play on this advantage to get him pick up a 2nd bookable or a straigt red card.

Even if we got more static and not as offensive after Ishy went of its better then risk ending the match with 10 players.

Sorry Par, but he is a professional footballer.

He has to learn, if he'd have got sent off yesterday, I'd have seriously considered booting him out the football club.

There comes a time when you have to let someone learn from their mistakes and show it, yesterday was that time. Instead what we said was "I don't trust you".

I bet Wrexham were thanking their lucky stars when he walked off that pitch.

[Whitti Steve]

Match report:

http://upthesaddlers.com/wp/archives/20 ... am-report/

You mean there are people who actually wouldn't have taken Ishy off? I don't really blame him for getting upset over a disgusting challenge, but he had to be hooked.

Why would I have taken him off? He didn't react to the player. He reacted as any other player would have to a tackle like that.

Instead, we spent the rest of the match on the backfoot in my opinion as we lost a big attacking outlet, we were back down to a single option in Mark Wright.

Of course he reacted to that challenge, who wouldn't, but last season he'd have shoved that player to the ground before any of our lot got too him. Instead, after complaining to the ref, Keates kept him away from the situation and Ishy let him do that and walked away too.

For me, it was a horribly negative thing to do.

Ishy already had a yellow card and we know he can be a bit instabile in some of his reactions and the opposition is very aware of this too and might try and play on this advantage to get him pick up a 2nd bookable or a straigt red card.

Even if we got more static and not as offensive after Ishy went of its better then risk ending the match with 10 players.

Sorry Par, but he is a professional footballer.

He has to learn, if he'd have got sent off yesterday, I'd have seriously considered booting him out the football club.

There comes a time when you have to let someone learn from their mistakes and show it, yesterday was that time. Instead what we said was "I don't trust you".

I bet Wrexham were thanking their lucky stars when he walked off that pitch.

You may have a point.... also, do we know if the challenge injuered him?

[Neil Ravenscroft]

Stu - depends how you describe entertainment.
Manchester United
West Brom
Colchester
Blackpool
Accrington Stanley
Stockport
Peterborough
That's the full list of teams who have scored more home goals than us. So, assuming that teams tend to do the majority of their attacking at home, that puts us eighth in the country. We score goals, we win matches. I don't know what more people expect? A lot of missed chances?

Sure, we work on keeping it tight at the back first and foremost, but I think that is Money's style. I think we probably need to play exactly the same way next season - and I don't see it not working. If, however, we aren't winning games then I can't see DD continuing in the same manner if we're losing week after week. He's shown us often enough this season that he is astute enough to change things round when needs must.

I'm not one of those that classes goals as entertainment, so that doesn't really wash with me.

Personally, I like to see the football kept on the ground. I'm a traditionalist, give me 4-4-2. In that, I want one striker who can hold a ball up, one striker with a bit of nip and pace to stretch a team over the top if needed. I like to see one midfielder with the ability to get ahead of his forwards, and most importantly, by a country mile, I love watching wide men. Proper wide men, who provide width, hug a touchline, run with the ball and put the ball across the face of goal.

I don't enjoy seeing fullbacks immitating wingers, I don't enjoy seeing two midfielders sitting deep, I don't enjoy 20 yard gaps between my midfield pair and my central striking pair. I don't enjoy seeing constant balls lumped up into the channels or to a bumbling Trevor Benjamin.

Maybe I'm just naive instead.

No, but you are looking back to a past that, if it ever existed, is certainly no longer the reality. The sheer amount of money riding on the game nowadays means that success is all and that the "pragmatist" rather than "negative" - much better description - managers are winning out. I'm sorry, but there are very, very few managers who wouldn't have taken the safety first option of taking off Ishy yesterday when we were already leading, to protect him from a possible red card, when we will need him next week, especially when it turns out Cooper has been crocked all along.

As for teams taking the attacking option, rather than the "safety first", I can think of two who don't - Manchester United and Arsenal. I'm sorry, but even the man who could afford not to play that way, Mourinho, does.

The last point I'd make is that I really don't think that Money's side is any less attacking in intent that Nicholls' or Gradon's. They were just fortunate that Sun Tan Man managed to find them a couple of players with flair. That might still happen here.

All in all, I'm afraid the game has changed to something more tactical, more technical and some of the things people say they want from games just aren't going to happen while there is so much riding on it. Football is no longer part of the entertainment business, even at our level, but is big business where success is the only criterion that matters.

I also have to say that I don't particularly like it, but don't see anything to change it while the greed in the game continues to grow.

[Purple Toucan Saddler]

Don't you think the Sam miss was reminiscent of the Butler miss when we played Rotherham.

The Wrexham fans will be speaking about it for years to come.

Told you it would happen (see quote below off red passion site)

WREX01
Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 203

Hector Sam

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He got a great reception from the fans, and he also acknowledged the fans ( something that fergie an Rooster did not do at posh).

I like to hope that Hector missed that great chance on goal on purpose, in order to give us a chance to get back into the game

[philthesaddler]

Good three points, combined with the monkey hangers' mess-up (shame about that ref, eh?). One thing amused me - TWO onto Ishy every time he was near the ball, yet this is only his second start of the year? Sounds like we've got a great little winger on our hands. Hopefully he'll have a bit more space and respect in League One, rather than get tonked by the cloggers and carthorses down here.

Yeh it's funny aint it... two games in a row he's been the best performer, but he's only played around 100 minutes in 2007. What a waste

Aye, his lack of playing time is nearly as disappointing as the decision to take him off today. For a team, who at that time were top of the league, to make such a defensive substitution against a team so poor really was quite disappointing. I bet the Wrexham fans and management were thanking their lucky stars when they saw Ishmel coming off.

And before anyone rambles on about discipline, he held his discipline superbly. He may have reacted to the Ref after that disgraceful late boot, but he did what any player would have done in that position.

I know we won, I know we're top, but that decision summed up exactly why I hate the tactics we've used this season, far too defensive.

Spot on.

[hullsaddler]

Thought the first half was pretty mediocre. A neutral would never have known that there was nearly a whole table between the teams. Enjoyed the second half. Thought Westwood had an excellent game. Brilliant run by Wright that led to the goal, if only he could cross the ball in a couple of yards further away from the keeper! Thought Ishy was excellent & was disappointed when he was subbed, but can see the reasoning behind it, as long it was to make sure he can start the game next week. At least he is someone who can pose a threat next year. It was a shocking decision to not book the guy going straight through him from behind & agree with the points that in past he would have reacted before Keates could have got to him.
Looking forward to next week's game, going with a friend who lives near Newbury.
Only downside for me about the afternoon was some morons near me chants of 'I'd rather be a p**i than a Taff'

[geoffwhiting]

Stu - depends how you describe entertainment.
Manchester United
West Brom
Colchester
Blackpool
Accrington Stanley
Stockport
Peterborough
That's the full list of teams who have scored more home goals than us. So, assuming that teams tend to do the majority of their attacking at home, that puts us eighth in the country. We score goals, we win matches. I don't know what more people expect? A lot of missed chances?

Sure, we work on keeping it tight at the back first and foremost, but I think that is Money's style. I think we probably need to play exactly the same way next season - and I don't see it not working. If, however, we aren't winning games then I can't see DD continuing in the same manner if we're losing week after week. He's shown us often enough this season that he is astute enough to change things round when needs must.

I'm not one of those that classes goals as entertainment, so that doesn't really wash with me.

Personally, I like to see the football kept on the ground. I'm a traditionalist, give me 4-4-2. In that, I want one striker who can hold a ball up, one striker with a bit of nip and pace to stretch a team over the top if needed. I like to see one midfielder with the ability to get ahead of his forwards, and most importantly, by a country mile, I love watching wide men. Proper wide men, who provide width, hug a touchline, run with the ball and put the ball across the face of goal.

I don't enjoy seeing fullbacks immitating wingers, I don't enjoy seeing two midfielders sitting deep, I don't enjoy 20 yard gaps between my midfield pair and my central striking pair. I don't enjoy seeing constant balls lumped up into the channels or to a bumbling Trevor Benjamin.

Maybe I'm just naive instead.

No, but you are looking back to a past that, if it ever existed, is certainly no longer the reality. The sheer amount of money riding on the game nowadays means that success is all and that the "pragmatist" rather than "negative" - much better description - managers are winning out. I'm sorry, but there are very, very few managers who wouldn't have taken the safety first option of taking off Ishy yesterday when we were already leading, to protect him from a possible red card, when we will need him next week, especially when it turns out Cooper has been crocked all along.

As for teams taking the attacking option, rather than the "safety first", I can think of two who don't - Manchester United and Arsenal. I'm sorry, but even the man who could afford not to play that way, Mourinho, does.

The last point I'd make is that I really don't think that Money's side is any less attacking in intent that Nicholls' or Gradon's. They were just fortunate that Sun Tan Man managed to find them a couple of players with flair. That might still happen here.

All in all, I'm afraid the game has changed to something more tactical, more technical and some of the things people say they want from games just aren't going to happen while there is so much riding on it. Football is no longer part of the entertainment business, even at our level, but is big business where success is the only criterion that matters.
I also have to say that I don't particularly like it, but don't see anything to change it while the greed in the game continues to grow.

Yet every now and again teams prove that entertainment is possible, and that fans will put up with a defeat as long as they are fully entertained.

Take last weekend - Wolves vs Birmingham - so much at stake and yet arguably the most entertaining game seen in the top two divisions for many a long day. Absolutely superb, had everything, loads of attacking, loads of chances, near misses, great saves and good goals. And at the end, despite the defeat the "fickle" Wolves fans were 100% behind their team. So it was a great game in a great atmosphere, the way it should be, and some clubs could learn a lot from that.

[geoffwhiting]

Good three points, combined with the monkey hangers' mess-up (shame about that ref, eh?). One thing amused me - TWO onto Ishy every time he was near the ball, yet this is only his second start of the year? Sounds like we've got a great little winger on our hands. Hopefully he'll have a bit more space and respect in League One, rather than get tonked by the cloggers and carthorses down here.

Yeh it's funny aint it... two games in a row he's been the best performer, but he's only played around 100 minutes in 2007. What a waste

Aye, his lack of playing time is nearly as disappointing as the decision to take him off today. For a team, who at that time were top of the league, to make such a defensive substitution against a team so poor really was quite disappointing. I bet the Wrexham fans and management were thanking their lucky stars when they saw Ishmel coming off.

And before anyone rambles on about discipline, he held his discipline superbly. He may have reacted to the Ref after that disgraceful late boot, but he did what any player would have done in that position.

I know we won, I know we're top, but that decision summed up exactly why I hate the tactics we've used this season, far too defensive.

Spot on.

Don't agree at all. It was disappointing to see Ishy go off, but it was exactly the right decision. He already had a yellow card in the game, and the last thing we needed was to lose him for next week's crucial title decider. Ishy COULD make the difference between some points or none at Swindon, so DD got it spot-on for me.

Just imagine what might have happened. The Wrexham player wasn't booked - ridiculous refereeing in the circumstances but that's how it was - and Ishy had already kicked-off, thankfully not too much before Keatesy got to him and calmed him down. The same Wrexham player would have seen Ishy's reaction and known he had another opportunity to risk a yellow and get us down to 10 men.

I think, if DD had allowed that risk to be taken, and if as a result Ishy had got himself sent off, we'd all be on here today questioning why DD didn't foresee that situation and withdraw him from the game.

DD just can't win with some people can he ?

[Neuromantic]

Good three points, combined with the monkey hangers' mess-up (shame about that ref, eh?). One thing amused me - TWO onto Ishy every time he was near the ball, yet this is only his second start of the year? Sounds like we've got a great little winger on our hands. Hopefully he'll have a bit more space and respect in League One, rather than get tonked by the cloggers and carthorses down here.

Yeh it's funny aint it... two games in a row he's been the best performer, but he's only played around 100 minutes in 2007. What a waste

Aye, his lack of playing time is nearly as disappointing as the decision to take him off today. For a team, who at that time were top of the league, to make such a defensive substitution against a team so poor really was quite disappointing. I bet the Wrexham fans and management were thanking their lucky stars when they saw Ishmel coming off.

And before anyone rambles on about discipline, he held his discipline superbly. He may have reacted to the Ref after that disgraceful late boot, but he did what any player would have done in that position.

I know we won, I know we're top, but that decision summed up exactly why I hate the tactics we've used this season, far too defensive.

Spot on.

Don't agree at all. It was disappointing to see Ishy go off, but it was exactly the right decision. He already had a yellow card in the game, and the last thing we needed was to lose him for next week's crucial title decider. Ishy COULD make the difference between some points or none at Swindon, so DD got it spot-on for me.

Just imagine what might have happened. The Wrexham player wasn't booked - ridiculous refereeing in the circumstances but that's how it was - and Ishy had already kicked-off, thankfully not too much before Keatesy got to him and calmed him down. The same Wrexham player would have seen Ishy's reaction and known he had another opportunity to risk a yellow and get us down to 10 men.

I think, if DD had allowed that risk to be taken, and if as a result Ishy had got himself sent off, we'd all be on here today questioning why DD didn't foresee that situation and withdraw him from the game.

DD just can't win with some people can he ?

Totally agree mate!

[Duke]

Good three points, combined with the monkey hangers' mess-up (shame about that ref, eh?). One thing amused me - TWO onto Ishy every time he was near the ball, yet this is only his second start of the year? Sounds like we've got a great little winger on our hands. Hopefully he'll have a bit more space and respect in League One, rather than get tonked by the cloggers and carthorses down here.

Yeh it's funny aint it... two games in a row he's been the best performer, but he's only played around 100 minutes in 2007. What a waste

Aye, his lack of playing time is nearly as disappointing as the decision to take him off today. For a team, who at that time were top of the league, to make such a defensive substitution against a team so poor really was quite disappointing. I bet the Wrexham fans and management were thanking their lucky stars when they saw Ishmel coming off.

And before anyone rambles on about discipline, he held his discipline superbly. He may have reacted to the Ref after that disgraceful late boot, but he did what any player would have done in that position.

I know we won, I know we're top, but that decision summed up exactly why I hate the tactics we've used this season, far too defensive.

Spot on.

Don't agree at all. It was disappointing to see Ishy go off, but it was exactly the right decision. He already had a yellow card in the game, and the last thing we needed was to lose him for next week's crucial title decider. Ishy COULD make the difference between some points or none at Swindon, so DD got it spot-on for me.

Just imagine what might have happened. The Wrexham player wasn't booked - ridiculous refereeing in the circumstances but that's how it was - and Ishy had already kicked-off, thankfully not too much before Keatesy got to him and calmed him down. The same Wrexham player would have seen Ishy's reaction and known he had another opportunity to risk a yellow and get us down to 10 men.

I think, if DD had allowed that risk to be taken, and if as a result Ishy had got himself sent off, we'd all be on here today questioning why DD didn't foresee that situation and withdraw him from the game.

DD just can't win with some people can he ?

Exactly geoff , very well said, here we are on the brink of only our second ever title , and fans still question his management .

[Magic Man Fan]

Wright was quiet first half with the odd foray here and there but he still did some good things despite not having the ball that often. Someone mentioned about him looking up before he crosses, I sort of agree but some managers just tell players to get the ball in the danger area, unfortunately if he's telling Wright to do that he's not telling Butler and Benjamin to do the same cos they're hardly ever there. :roll:

This is one of the most frustrating things about our play - the forwards' movement. We finally (after years of waiting) have a striker who can win flick-ons, Benjamin, but his partner is never within ten yards of him to take the benefit. There's no point humping long balls to Benjamin to flick on - which we do, and which he wins - if Butler isn't running behind him to pick up the pieces.

How dare you point out that Butler is not making the most of some excellent play by Butler. He is beyone criticism don't you know?

Butler can't play the big man role, Benjamin can but you need a pacy person alongside him who can read the flick ons and make the most of them. I wasn't sure at first but I'd consider keeping Trev if we can find that pacy player and if DD has got the balls to drop Butler, which he hasn't.

Shame because Butler can't seem to fit into either partnership for me. Not the big man with the good first touch and not the small nippy partner to score lots of goals. He's an inbetweener who makes lots of good runs, unfortunately not often to any effec.

[SaigonSaddler]

Good three points, combined with the monkey hangers' mess-up (shame about that ref, eh?). One thing amused me - TWO onto Ishy every time he was near the ball, yet this is only his second start of the year? Sounds like we've got a great little winger on our hands. Hopefully he'll have a bit more space and respect in League One, rather than get tonked by the cloggers and carthorses down here.

Yeh it's funny aint it... two games in a row he's been the best performer, but he's only played around 100 minutes in 2007. What a waste

Aye, his lack of playing time is nearly as disappointing as the decision to take him off today. For a team, who at that time were top of the league, to make such a defensive substitution against a team so poor really was quite disappointing. I bet the Wrexham fans and management were thanking their lucky stars when they saw Ishmel coming off.

And before anyone rambles on about discipline, he held his discipline superbly. He may have reacted to the Ref after that disgraceful late boot, but he did what any player would have done in that position.

I know we won, I know we're top, but that decision summed up exactly why I hate the tactics we've used this season, far too defensive.

Spot on.

Don't agree at all. It was disappointing to see Ishy go off, but it was exactly the right decision. He already had a yellow card in the game, and the last thing we needed was to lose him for next week's crucial title decider. Ishy COULD make the difference between some points or none at Swindon, so DD got it spot-on for me.

Just imagine what might have happened. The Wrexham player wasn't booked - ridiculous refereeing in the circumstances but that's how it was - and Ishy had already kicked-off, thankfully not too much before Keatesy got to him and calmed him down. The same Wrexham player would have seen Ishy's reaction and known he had another opportunity to risk a yellow and get us down to 10 men.

I think, if DD had allowed that risk to be taken, and if as a result Ishy had got himself sent off, we'd all be on here today questioning why DD didn't foresee that situation and withdraw him from the game.

DD just can't win with some people can he ?

Exactly geoff , very well said, here we are on the brink of only our second ever title , and fans still question his management .

The manager, the players - not good enough apparently, just don't tell the other teams that......the other teams that are all below us. :D

[Magic Man Fan]

Nearly every time, he is forced to play a long 'aimless' ball because Richard Money decides to play with such a narrow midfield that he has no-one to pass to.
A number of times yesterday, he put his foot on the ball, looked up and found no-one. He was crying out for Ishmel to show him the ball down the line, but Ishmel was never in a wide enough position to receive the ball (mainly in the first half). I don't blame Ishmel for that, because I think he's told to play narrow by the manager.

Or Fox could use his brain (which I don't think exists) and play a low pass down the line for Ishmel to run onto instead of kicking it into someone's arse.

Ishmel doesn't have to be showing for him, by playing the pass down the line has two benefits, it goes into the corner which is often unoccupied and means we can have Ishmel to run onto it and we can get players forward to sustain an attack and also it means it's not Fox's favourite floated pass to a centre half which is easy for them to deal and puts us on the back foot as we have to sit back and defend.

I do see the bigger picture, I also know a lot about the game and how a full back should play. Fox plays more like a centre half to me. Winning headers, generally defending well then hoofs it away. It's up to him to take the initiative and pass the ball down the line for someone to run onto, or he could do the full backy thing of playing a simple pass into midfield or the winger, then overlapping to receive it back to create an attack. Unfortunately he doesn't think like a full back, he often doesn't think at all and Taylor is by far the better full back, defender and footballer and we are about to see his talent lost.