Mansfield Town (A) League Saturday 20/1/07

[Neuromantic]

Tut tut Phil. dont you know you cant criticise Mark Wright ??? :roll:

[cal wfc fan]

although i wasn't at the game yesterday.

some of the comments and criticism of players sound like weve lost for the 10th game in a row, not for the THIRD time this season.

Players need our support and backing if we are to achieve the aim of promotion, not criticism. After all we are still top of the league and three points clear.

I totally agree!! Last week Walsall Football Team were GREAT after the win against Grimsby, this week they are totally crap and all need replacing. I think some of the so called SUPORTERS need replacing :evil:

[Geordiesaddler]

Westwood did'nt do a lot wrong .
DD was wrong to change things IMO. Sam and Keates should have started.
Second half we look a little better but created very little.

I'd ditto that, as soon as Metfan told me the team before the match I said I thought it was the wrong thing to do.

When your trying to create competition for places, then players who play well and in a winning team should hold their position. After the last win, to drop Keates for Fox and Sam for Cederqvist was like saying "Regardless of performances, I've got my first choice XI and they'll play when they're fit."

Still as said, t'was only the 3rd defeat of the season so no need to worry too much. Every team has off days.

Totally agree. DD got it wrong yesterday, absolutely no question.

Cederqvist had a confidence knocking 45 minutes, Butler was forced deeper and deeper to go in search of the ball and couldn't capitalise on his return to form. Sam must be wondering what's going on. For weeks he was below par and retained his place. Now havig been our best forward for over a month, and having had his best performance in a Walsall shirt in the last game, he gets subbed and dropped!! Bizarre, almost Mersonesque Im afraid.

On top of that, yesterday we left ourselves without a plan B. Ishy and Cederqvist can both have an impact coming on when the game is stretched, Sam and Bedeau don't have that energy or pace to change the game.

Both defeats I've seen this season at Grimsby and yesterday were down to Taylor's poor defending, and on both ocassions we took and early lead and should have snatched an undeserved draw at the end, almost like carbon copies. Lets hope we bounce back in the same fashion next Saturday!

[geoffwhiting]

Seeing the goal again , its difficult to tell if it was hand ball or a foul on Ince.
One thing for the sure , the reaction of the Mansfield players tells me they was as much suprised as we were that goal was allowed.

I've said this on another thread too.

When have any of us seen a player, scoring a potentially winning goal against the league leaders, just turn away blank-faced as the ball goes over the line into the net ?

I'm still unsure if it was a foul or hand-ball from the brief action that I've seen on TV, but the lack of celebration of any kind either by his actions or his facial expression speaks volumes. Absolutely no doubt the scorer didn't expect a goal to be awarded, and that's the convincing evidence for me.

[Cannock]

Fact is. They scored and won by two goals to one.

Our display was pretty dismal to say the least so i can't really complain about the defeat. We didn't deserve to win in my opinion. Mansfield battled harder and had more bottle.

Geordie has got it spot on.

We need to dust ourselves down and bounce back rather than screaming "it's not fair, their goal was maybe a foul or possibly handball"

Take the good with the bad.

[Cheesebag]

Fact is. They scored and won by two goals to one.

Our display was pretty dismal to say the least so i can't really complain about the defeat. We didn't deserve to win in my opinion. Mansfield battled harder and had more bottle.

Geordie has got it spot on.

We need to dust ourselves down and bounce back rather than screaming "it's not fair, their goal was maybe a foul or possibly handball"

Take the good with the bad.

Agreed

[Geordiesaddler]

Yep agree totally. And had our late chance gone in, most welcome though it would have been it would have also been almost embarrassing to take anything from the game to be honest. That performance simply wasn't deserving of anything. Bloke behind me was saying how a decent team would have put five or six past us. I'm not sure anyone in this league is capable of that but had they won by a clearer margin there could have been no complaints as there have been regarding the validity of the winning goal. They beat us fair and square on the day IMO. I must be one of the few people who thought it was a good goal with the naked eye, and seeing it on the tv just confirmed it more so. His lack of celebration was probably just due to the fact that Refs always err on the side of the keeper in these situations.

[Magic Man Fan]

ii) Fox/Keates - well I had to admit to MMF that I was wrong, we really missed Keates! At least he tries to get involved in the game. Fox hid from the game as much as possible, never held the wing so we had no width and seemed to lose the ball every time he had it.

I thought you were joking. :D Nice to meet you mate, and the other UTSers I met yesterday.

Not a good performance at all and DD didn't help matters in my opinion. I think it was a tough call whether to start Par or Sam and I am not Sam's biggest fan but I don't see the point in changing a winning team. That includes Keates starting instead of Fox who showed why I think he is poor on left midfield.

Even when 2-1 down DD got it wrong and bought on Keates for Wright who had been poor but we were coming from behind and needed as many attacking players as possible to chase the game...that means leaving Bedeaun't out of the picture all together and having Ishy on the bench. Too many defensive players for me today.

But ignoring that, the winning goal was poor. Pointless, terrible mistake by Taylor and regardless of whether it was handball it was an awful mistake. He shouldn't be concerned whether it was a head or hand that touched the ball, he should be claiming it and it's normally his strength but he got it completely wrong and it cost us.

I hope the players weren't distracted by any speculation surrounding Money because it's not often we've put in performances like that.

I've said for a couple of weeks what good signings Conlon and Gritton were, and they both proved it by scoring the goals to beat us.

3 points clear, only third loss of the season which is excellent, it's just disappointing that the other teams all did well on the day. 3 points against Boston will put us back on track though.

[Magic Man Fan]

Tut tut Phil. dont you know you cant criticise Mark Wright ??? :roll:

Nothing wrong with criticising players but there was loud booing when Wright messed up just before he was taken off. You're all idiots who booed, you know who you are. The same ones that cheered when he got taken off. Wright was poor but it's the hypocrisy that pisses me off.

Where were your boos for Ince for messing up for the goal and his terrible kicking? Where were the boos for the completely ineffective Fox?

You're supposed to be SUPPORTERS. With supporters like you we don't deserve promotion and if you knock the players confidence like that we won't get it.

[Matt'sdad]

Just seen it on the Championship, no indication of a handball at all there to be honest... He certainly didn't get to it before or at the same time as Ince.

Cross lumped in, Ince jumps and spills/flaps it, drops it literally onto their players chest/arm and he knees it into the net. It may have hit his arm, after Ince spilled it, but thats not handball.

Certainly no "hand of god", the bloke didn't even jump into Ince, he must have been 6-12 inches away from him.

Looks like a simple balls up to me.

I saw it on the Championship too, it looked the way Stu tells it, but I'd need to have another look to be more sure - wish I'd recorded it.

The ball certainly seemed to go in off their players thigh, hip or something in that region, but I didn't see a hand to the ball.

Clayton seemed distracted by their bloke heading towards him, maybe took his eye off the ball, and he certainly seemed to have chance to hold the ball just BEFORE their player clattered him.

I've seen it too.

Clayton was just about to catch it, and thats the important moment. What knocked the ball out of Claytons Grasp? To me, it was his upper forearm, which corresponds with why so many have come on here saying hand of god, it definately seems to strike his arm at the moment Clayton is about to catch it. It then hits his head, thigh and goes in.

A Clanger all round, Clayton for not being more decisive, the ref for not spotting an infringement, and taylor in the first place for the terrible clearance.

Wright and Fox were atrocious, and both should be dropped for next week. That is where we showed no endeavour, and with Wrack approaching full fitness [according to the OS] and Demon chomping at the bit, i'd bring them two in for Wright and Fox respectively, and possibly keates in for Pead. Those kind of performances shouldn't be tolerated. Yes we are top of the league, but we are letting points drop needlessly. It wasn't that long ago we had a 9 point lead, since then we've dropped two points in the last minute against Bristol, and lost to Mansfield.

To me its very worrying. When we come up against a side with anything about them, we struggle to stamp our authority on the game. We do fine against the dross of this god awful division like P'boro and Grimsby, but against teams with a bit of balls like Swindon, Mk Dons and Mansfield, we struggle because our lightweight, lazy and slow midfield don't cut it.

I've been saying for ages we need to strengthen midfield, and I think yesterday proved it.

Unlike you guys I don't see them play from week to week so I can only base my opinions from what I read in the press and from this forum.

I have to agree with Phil on that point which I have highlighted, we are not finishing teams off. OK if we are promoted it does not matter.

I was at the match against Plymouth and to be honest , that was not their main priority, we stopped them playing and got the deciding goal.

The team is set up not to lose, many have done it in the past and been successful.
Then I go on to Phil's other point about the midfield ....... there has to be an attacking dimension and that requires someone who has a footballing brain and give the strikers goal scoring opportunities. In any league the top goal scorers are playing for the top teams ... look at league two minus one team ... I am not complaining but our main strikers are not scoring.

I also think we are not very strong out wide ... not wishing to critisise any particular player..... because they are playing within a system ... which at the moment is working.

We won't win every game between now and the end of the season but let's get behind the team and get out of this crap league and enjoy the success :D

[ShropsSaddler]

I thought you were joking. :D Nice to meet you mate, and the other UTSers I met yesterday.

Aye, good to meet you too MMF. No, I wasn't joking at all. I'd forgotten what a waste of space Fox is!!! And yet Mr Money comes on the radio afterwards saying that Fox deserved to play because he's "done his job all season"?!?! Hmmm.....

Not a good performance at all and DD didn't help matters in my opinion. I think it was a tough call whether to start Par or Sam and I am not Sam's biggest fan but I don't see the point in changing a winning team. That includes Keates starting instead of Fox who showed why I think he is poor on left midfield.

Even when 2-1 down DD got it wrong and bought on Keates for Wright who had been poor but we were coming from behind and needed as many attacking players as possible to chase the game...that means leaving Bedeaun't out of the picture all together and having Ishy on the bench. Too many defensive players for me today.

Agree with that assessment. Changes shouldn't have been made after winning against Grimsby and taking Wright off totally lost us any width. He hasn't made too many errors of judgement this season but yesterday was a bad day at the office. Perhaps he's trying to dissuade Coventry from making an approach? ;-)

But ignoring that, the winning goal was poor. Pointless, terrible mistake by Taylor and regardless of whether it was handball it was an awful mistake. He shouldn't be concerned whether it was a head or hand that touched the ball, he should be claiming it and it's normally his strength but he got it completely wrong and it cost us.

Agree that Taylor's clearance was abysmal....but see my earlier point (on other thread?) re lack of options from Fox, possibly Dobson as well? Taylor's first thought was to look up and look for a pass. No-one offered themselves for that pass.

As for Ince, we really can't be critical......against the "mistake" for the 2nd goal, we have the tremendous save he made from Conlon when he broke through and was favourite to score.

[Magic Man Fan]

Agree that Taylor's clearance was abysmal....but see my earlier point (on other thread?) re lack of options from Fox, possibly Dobson as well? Taylor's first thought was to look up and look for a pass. No-one offered themselves for that pass.

As for Ince, we really can't be critical......against the "mistake" for the 2nd goal, we have the tremendous save he made from Conlon when he broke through and was favourite to score.

I agree on both of those points but if Taylor didn't have a pass on, he should make his point by launching it up the field not gifting possession away.

Ince has been tremendous all season which is presumably why he wasn't booed after making the mistake. The facts show that Wright has been good all season but he still go booed. :roll:

[cal wfc fan]

You're supposed to be SUPPORTERS. With supporters like you we don't deserve promotion and if you knock the players confidence like that we won't get it.[/quote]

Totally agree 100%

[Exile]

You're supposed to be SUPPORTERS. With supporters like you we don't deserve promotion and if you knock the players confidence like that we won't get it.

Totally agree 100%[/quote]

Indeed. At the very least, when we're top of the league we ought to be taking the positives and concentrating on them, not the negatives that'll inevitably crop up in a side in the lower reaches of the football pyramid. All our players are flawed, otherwise they'd be collecting millions a year in the Premiership. Our entire club turnover last year would just about pay John Terry's wages, without bonuses.

[Stu]

It'll never change... Once a boo-boy, always a boo-boy... Some may change an opinion, but some never will.

I know one thing though, I don't think we'd be 3 pts clear if we hadn't had Mark Wright on the right hand side this season, and we'd had to play Bedeau or Pead there instead.

[Chomper]

Poor performance but lets hope it's a blip.

I think DD made a couple of poor decisions today. I don't understand any of the substitutions. I thought Par had looked okay and deserved another 10 mins.

And then when we are 2-1 down to bring our most attacking, player (and leading assist) off for Keates (why not Bedeau)??? That left a midfield of Fox, Keates, Dobbo and Pead!!! It's little wonder we failed to support the front two thereafter.

No Ishy on the bench? He is the only player in the squad who should feel dissapointed at not being involved more, as our left wing was none existant yesterday.

The bench was way to defensive. After Ishy's cameo on Monday I thought he would have had a place on the bench, as could Wracky. But no, we must make space for Bedeau mustn't we.

[SaigonSaddler]

You're supposed to be SUPPORTERS. With supporters like you we don't deserve promotion and if you knock the players confidence like that we won't get it.

Totally agree 100%[/quote]

Agree BUT people still travel and pay to stand (or sit) in the cold to watch. There are plenty of other things to do so I expect full commitment from the players. We can criticise because we are the fans, this is our right.

Having said that I'm not too unhappy, a poor performance but they did try. Wright did play badly and it's only fair to say so. Dobson played very well and I think those who did criticise him in the past should re-evaluate their judgement on him.

[We-ARE-Walsall]

You thought Dobson played well ?

I wouldn't have give any one of them 2 out of 10

[SaigonSaddler]

You thought Dobson played well ?

I wouldn't have give any one of them 2 out of 10

The strikers got next to know service so I can't blame them, Dobson did very well breaking up their attacks through the centre but the wings were exposed and we created nothing down our wings. Sam: Good, Keates: Good, Dobbo: Good, the rest a bit pants. :wink:

[Pedagogue]

You're supposed to be SUPPORTERS. With supporters like you we don't deserve promotion and if you knock the players confidence like that we won't get it.

If you are referring to being at the match, I couldn't agree more, Cal. For example, I have got no time at all for Mark Wright. In my opinion, he is a total waste of space who should not even be on the playing staff (sorry, MWAS members :( ). However, I would NEVER boo or jeer him for his incompetence nor would I cheer at his substitution, as apparently happened yesterday. Similarly, I am disgusted at the "Dingle" jibes aimed at Westwood (particularly as CW has been one of better players over the last two or three months). To barrack a player is counter-productive. I assume all our followers wish us to play well, so why try to publicly humiliate our players, thereby causing them to under-perform?

However, I must defend those who express negative opinions on this forum, even if I don't agree with them (as is often the case). This IS the place to argue different points of view. What a boring site it would be if we all expressed the same opinion, revelling in an orgy of self-congratulation and mutual back-slapping. There are clearly areas for improvement in the team, at present (although not as many as in other teams), and it is within the confines of this forum that the various options should be debated, NOT shouted from the stands and terraces. So please let's not hear criticism of posters who express opinions and arguments that are different to our own.

[Cannock]

Excellent use of bold lettering Leamore. :wink:

[Flikster]

I hope you don't object to a Mansfield fan (yes there are a few of us) posting on your site.
I was seated in the West Stand near the half way line so a clear view of the incident was impossible. However, my first reaction the challenge was that Gritton had somehow impeded Ince (who I have personally rated highly since his days at Crewe) and, it was with astonishment that the linesman signalled a goal. It seemed to be an eternity before the goal was given.
I saw the goal again on Championship this morning, having videoed it. I played it back again and again looking for an infringement. From the camera angle it wasn't obvious what had happened. Ince looked perplexed. Gritton just turned away as if he knew it was a foul without celebration. The best angle to have seen the incident I decided was from the postion of the linesman. Even behind the goal would have been slightly obscured by the goals and the keeper.
That said for once, Mansfield fought hard, harder than I've seen for a while and seemed inspired. A few weeks ago that last minute clearance would have gone in. We're good at conceding last minute goals, ask any Bristol City fan.
Walsall are clearly an excellent team who will obviously get automatic promotion to Div1.
All the best for the rest of the season.

[Kiansmom]

we let anyone in here :wink: nice to have other opinions on the game, I thought we were very poor today, but we will still go up :lol:

[geoffwhiting]

I hope you don't object to a Mansfield fan (yes there are a few of us) posting on your site.
I was seated in the West Stand near the half way line so a clear view of the incident was impossible. However, my first reaction the challenge was that Gritton had somehow impeded Ince (who I have personally rated highly since his days at Crewe) and, it was with astonishment that the linesman signalled a goal. It seemed to be an eternity before the goal was given.
I saw the goal again on Championship this morning, having videoed it. I played it back again and again looking for an infringement. From the camera angle it wasn't obvious what had happened. Ince looked perplexed. Gritton just turned away as if he knew it was a foul without celebration. The best angle to have seen the incident I decided was from the postion of the linesman. Even behind the goal would have been slightly obscured by the goals and the keeper.
That said for once, Mansfield fought hard, harder than I've seen for a while and seemed inspired. A few weeks ago that last minute clearance would have gone in. We're good at conceding last minute goals, ask any Bristol City fan.
Walsall are clearly an excellent team who will obviously get automatic promotion to Div1.
All the best for the rest of the season.

You're very welcome here, and it's nice to get comments from sensible people like you, rather than the more usual inflamatory kind of stuff.

I couldn't go to the match, but it's clear from comments on the radio and from fans that the Mansfield win was deserved. There are views and opinions on the winning goal, but I've watched it several times and still can't make my mind up, so what's a Ref or Assistant Ref to do, given one chance to make a judgement?

I'm well known to be critical of referees, and he may have been crap overall yesterday, but on this one I can't really fault him if he got it wrong - and I mean IF he got it wrong - not saying he did.

If you played above your normal form, well that's fair enough, it's what most teams SHOULD do when playing the top of the table team, and if we were complacent then we got what we deserved, nothing!

Good luck for the rest of the season, if you carry on with the same spirit you'll be fine, and with these two new guys up front, I expect to see Mansfield climb the table quite rapidly to be honest.

[Neuromantic]

I never Booed - You can ask Al-MWAS terror Leader Percie for confirmation on this, I just simply didnt do anything. Just like his performance :)

Stu, you say we wouldnt be 3 points clear?............ We would be 12 points clear!! :D

[Stu]

I never Booed - You can ask Al-MWAS terror Leader Percie for confirmation on this, I just simply didnt do anything. Just like his performance :)

Stu, you say we wouldnt be 3 points clear?............ We would be 12 points clear!! :D

]

12 pts clear of relegation you mean...

[King Crimson]

0-2 to the supers. Sam to get both.

Dammit! So close with my prediction. :roll:

Bad day. Still top. Learn the lessons. Thump Boston.

[Duke]

You thought Dobson played well ?

I wouldn't have give any one of them 2 out of 10

Westwood did'nt do a lot wrong , the booing of Wright is getting past a joke .
fans if you can call them fans , gave the lad some stick in the second half.
its not helping the lads

[Magic Man Fan]

I never Booed - You can ask Al-MWAS terror Leader Percie for confirmation on this, I just simply didnt do anything. Just like his performance :)

Daz, I didn't say you did booed but your comment at the top was obviously aimed at me and was incorrect. No problem with criticising players at all, Wright was crap but booing is pointless, and there were a lot of people booing.

Wright was no worse than a few other players on the pitch.

As Saigon says, I think the players did try but just didn't reach the top of their game. In my opinion it was DD's fault we lost on Saturday, not the players. Team selection and tactics were wrong, from before the game to the end of it.

[aaaae]

You thought Dobson played well ?

I wouldn't have give any one of them 2 out of 10

I thought Dobbie was our man of the match, but he didn't have much competition. Hector did well when he came on, that's about it.