Walsall v Torquay...marks out of 100...?

[Whitti Steve]

When at the game i shout/moan/cheer along with the rest of you, and to be honest, i wasn't that impressed yesterday - i had a feeling of frustration - all of us can see that this team can play much better than they did.

BUT when i get home and look at the league table we are sitting pretty at the top of it, and at the moment this is the one overriding stat that we should all be concerned about.

WE HAVE TO GET OUT OF THIS LEAGUE, and it shouldn't matter how - of course in an ideal world we would win 3 or 4-0 but right now i will settle for promotion ahead of entertainment.

The big question is - were you warm enough today? You were "dolled up" for winter big style :lol:

[Duke]

I can fully understand Sid's view , but we are top of the league with the best home record in the country , teams wil come to Bescot and shut up shop and make it difficult for us to break them down .
Given the choice of this and playing open attacking entertaining football sitting comfortable in mid table i know which i would prefer .

And the end of the day promotion is what matters , get out of this bloody league then worry about life in league 1 .

I cant see that happening Dave...if the away side shut up shop as well we would have a really boring game wouldn't we?...oh we did didn't we... :?

This may sound a bit daft Sid , but in some ways in will be a good thing
when this home record is broken . the pressure will be of . I do do feel we are defending this no goals conceded record to much.
But again i say 3points back on top , not a bad weekends work

[sid swifty]

When at the game i shout/moan/cheer along with the rest of you, and to be honest, i wasn't that impressed yesterday - i had a feeling of frustration - all of us can see that this team can play much better than they did.

BUT when i get home and look at the league table we are sitting pretty at the top of it, and at the moment this is the one overriding stat that we should all be concerned about.

WE HAVE TO GET OUT OF THIS LEAGUE, and it shouldn't matter how - of course in an ideal world we would win 3 or 4-0 but right now i will settle for promotion ahead of entertainment.

YOUR NOT TELLING ME WE NEED TO BE QUITE SO DEFENSIVE AGINST THE 2ND RATE SIDES IN THIS LEAGUE SURELY...AND I AM THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE TO YOU MERSE-IAH...I LIKE THE ENTERTAINMENT AT THE STADIUM...AND I CAN FIND OTHER THINGS TO DO AT HOME... :wink: (sorry for shouting i forgot to press the caps lock... :oops: )

[Registered Saddler]

I do understand what a lot of you are saying...and i understand why you are saying it...because you would feel disloyal if you said what i have said...but i wonder what you would say if you went to the theatre and saw a crappy play...or went to a theme park and really hated it...or went out for a meal and didn't enjoy it at all...yes i know they are not football matches but they do bring the same thing up...VALUE FOR MONEY...now i haven't said i will stop going to watch them as i did last season even though it brought me a lot of abuse from people on this site...but i wouldn't rule it out if week after week we are treated to this defensive...uninspiring garbage...and i think a lot on this site will follow my lead when you suddenly realise that next season will be a hell of a lot better standard than the rubbish teams we play against in this division...so i think next season we may see (if its possible) an even more defensive team... :? ....up the saddlers.. :D

Here your argument falls down. If you go to the theatre or theme park then the sole purpose of those trips is to be entertained. Dickie Dosh's job isn't to entertain the fans, it's to get results. It's his prerogative to do that whichever way he sees fit. You don't like that style, that's your lookout, but he's not going to change it while we are so successful. If we were playing this way and losing, there would obviously be a different reaction from the fans, but I'd venture to suggest that the disappointment would be with the results and not with the way we are playing. I would also suggest that you are underestimating the entertainment on offer. We've score 29 goals this season which, from a quick glance, is more than anyone in England apart from Crewe, Lincoln and Cardiff.

[sid swifty]

i'm off to work now...if this thread is still going when i get back i will put you all right later... :D

[sid swifty]

I do understand what a lot of you are saying...and i understand why you are saying it...because you would feel disloyal if you said what i have said...but i wonder what you would say if you went to the theatre and saw a crappy play...or went to a theme park and really hated it...or went out for a meal and didn't enjoy it at all...yes i know they are not football matches but they do bring the same thing up...VALUE FOR MONEY...now i haven't said i will stop going to watch them as i did last season even though it brought me a lot of abuse from people on this site...but i wouldn't rule it out if week after week we are treated to this defensive...uninspiring garbage...and i think a lot on this site will follow my lead when you suddenly realise that next season will be a hell of a lot better standard than the rubbish teams we play against in this division...so i think next season we may see (if its possible) an even more defensive team... :? ....up the saddlers.. :D

Here your argument falls down. If you go to the theatre or theme park then the sole purpose of those trips is to be entertained. Dickie Dosh's job isn't to entertain the fans, it's to get results. It's his prerogative to do that whichever way he sees fit. You don't like that style, that's your lookout, but he's not going to change it while we are so successful. If we were playing this way and losing, there would obviously be a different reaction from the fans, but I'd venture to suggest that the disappointment would be with the results and not with the way we are playing. I would also suggest that you are underestimating the entertainment on offer. We've score 29 goals this season which, from a quick glance, is more than anyone in England apart from Crewe, Lincoln and Cardiff.

Well thats where we differ mate...i go to the match to spend 90 mins being entertained...not all the 90 mins...60 mins will do...but ive been going to the match a long time now and sometimes you get the odd dour perfomance...but the football we are seeing this season is designed to be like this so god help us.

[merse-iah's disciple]

When at the game i shout/moan/cheer along with the rest of you, and to be honest, i wasn't that impressed yesterday - i had a feeling of frustration - all of us can see that this team can play much better than they did.

BUT when i get home and look at the league table we are sitting pretty at the top of it, and at the moment this is the one overriding stat that we should all be concerned about.

WE HAVE TO GET OUT OF THIS LEAGUE, and it shouldn't matter how - of course in an ideal world we would win 3 or 4-0 but right now i will settle for promotion ahead of entertainment.

YOUR NOT TELLING ME WE NEED TO BE QUITE SO DEFENSIVE AGINST THE 2ND RATE SIDES IN THIS LEAGUE SURELY...AND I AM THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE TO YOU MERSE-IAH...I LIKE THE ENTERTAINMENT AT THE STADIUM...AND I CAN FIND OTHER THINGS TO DO AT HOME... :wink: (sorry for shouting i forgot to press the caps lock... :oops: )

Think you perforated my ear drum with that rant Sid :lol:

Like i said ideally i would like us to win with style, but i want us to win at all costs. Just to get out of this basement league - we're a bit too close to non-league obscurity.

I am not going to have a rant about Mark Wright on this thread but suffice it to say the only reason we had so many corners was because he kept on hitting the first defender with his crosses if some of them had actually got into the box then we would be talking about a 2 or 3-0 victory and maybe then we could have been entertained.

[We-ARE-Walsall]

When at the game i shout/moan/cheer along with the rest of you, and to be honest, i wasn't that impressed yesterday - i had a feeling of frustration - all of us can see that this team can play much better than they did.

BUT when i get home and look at the league table we are sitting pretty at the top of it, and at the moment this is the one overriding stat that we should all be concerned about.

WE HAVE TO GET OUT OF THIS LEAGUE, and it shouldn't matter how - of course in an ideal world we would win 3 or 4-0 but right now i will settle for promotion ahead of entertainment.

YOUR NOT TELLING ME WE NEED TO BE QUITE SO DEFENSIVE AGINST THE 2ND RATE SIDES IN THIS LEAGUE SURELY...AND I AM THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE TO YOU MERSE-IAH...I LIKE THE ENTERTAINMENT AT THE STADIUM...AND I CAN FIND OTHER THINGS TO DO AT HOME... :wink: (sorry for shouting i forgot to press the caps lock... :oops: )

Wooo things are bad, Sid's Caps Lock is stuck again :D

[sid swifty]

When at the game i shout/moan/cheer along with the rest of you, and to be honest, i wasn't that impressed yesterday - i had a feeling of frustration - all of us can see that this team can play much better than they did.

BUT when i get home and look at the league table we are sitting pretty at the top of it, and at the moment this is the one overriding stat that we should all be concerned about.

WE HAVE TO GET OUT OF THIS LEAGUE, and it shouldn't matter how - of course in an ideal world we would win 3 or 4-0 but right now i will settle for promotion ahead of entertainment.

YOUR NOT TELLING ME WE NEED TO BE QUITE SO DEFENSIVE AGINST THE 2ND RATE SIDES IN THIS LEAGUE SURELY...AND I AM THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE TO YOU MERSE-IAH...I LIKE THE ENTERTAINMENT AT THE STADIUM...AND I CAN FIND OTHER THINGS TO DO AT HOME... :wink: (sorry for shouting i forgot to press the caps lock... :oops: )

Wooo things are bad, Sid's Caps Lock is stuck again :D

:oops: :D

[merse-iah's disciple]

When at the game i shout/moan/cheer along with the rest of you, and to be honest, i wasn't that impressed yesterday - i had a feeling of frustration - all of us can see that this team can play much better than they did.

BUT when i get home and look at the league table we are sitting pretty at the top of it, and at the moment this is the one overriding stat that we should all be concerned about.

WE HAVE TO GET OUT OF THIS LEAGUE, and it shouldn't matter how - of course in an ideal world we would win 3 or 4-0 but right now i will settle for promotion ahead of entertainment.

The big question is - were you warm enough today? You were "dolled up" for winter big style :lol:

being a softie southerner where it is soooo much warmer i have to wrap up warm when i'm up north!

[Neil Ravenscroft]

match Report

http://upthesaddlers.com/wp/archives/20 ... wo-halves/

The only thing I'd add to this debate is that you should learn to appreciate all aspects of the game. It's summed up by the comment that, if the crossing had been better, we'd have scored a couple more and been better entertained. Why are goals the only criteria? In the second 45 minutes yesterday, the passing was crisp, the covering and organisation superb and, quite frankly, I was royally entertained by a magnificent display of defending by Ian Roper. The fact that, on the continent, fans appreciate all aspects of the game is one of the main reasons the players are technically better. Instead, all we get is complaints if the ball isn't got forward as quickly as possible in any old fashion that's to hand.

[Manchester Saddler]

Well I was entertained by Walsall beating Mansfield 4-0 and I'll bet that most of the crowd (with the exception of Sid :D - only joking Sid) were entertained by the 5-0 win against Posh!

This league is scrappy and crappy and entertainment is not easy to find in a game. Stockport v Lincoln was a comedy yesterday - and these are our closest rivals. I also saw Stockport play last season once or twice and it was the same story then.

Things will change next year because the opposition will be better and the flow will improve.

Whoever said that teams will come here and shut up shop has hit the nail on the head. That is a massive contributary factor to the lack of entertainment value in my view - and if we can still win such games then I am entertained.

[merse-iah's disciple]

I am not going to have a rant about Mark Wright on this thread but suffice it to say the only reason we had so many corners was because he kept on hitting the first defender with his crosses if some of them had actually got into the box then we would be talking about a 2 or 3-0 victory and maybe then we could have been entertained.

To clarify my above statement - If we had a buffer of two goals i think we may have opened up a bit and so played more attractive football, Torquay would have to come at us even more to salvage something and thus create more space which we could expolit.

I have seen a few really dull 2-0 games, so i am not saying that a 2-0 game is automatically a more entertaining one that a 1-0 or 0-0.

[Bernie]

Sid, you have been on this site long enough to know that if you offer any criticism of the team - no matter how mild, constructive or measured - you will receive a barrage of replies on the lines of "STOP MOANING AND GET BEHIND THE LADS".

We are all delighted with our league position, our home record, our defence and our goalkeeper.

Sid puts forward an interesting opinion that despite all that he is not really enjoying most of our games because we are not very entertaining. Some people will agree; some will disagree and explain why they have been entertained by the quality of our play this season. That is a proper debate to have, indeed it is the sort of debate that a football messageboard is all about.

Thank you for starting this thread Sid, please ignore the idiots who think that you should not express any views critical of the team.

[Neil Ravenscroft]

I am not going to have a rant about Mark Wright on this thread but suffice it to say the only reason we had so many corners was because he kept on hitting the first defender with his crosses if some of them had actually got into the box then we would be talking about a 2 or 3-0 victory and maybe then we could have been entertained.

To clarify my above statement - If we had a buffer of two goals i think we may have opened up a bit and so played more attractive football, Torquay would have to come at us even more to salvage something and thus create more space which we could expolit.

I have seen a few really dull 2-0 games, so i am not saying that a 2-0 game is automatically a more entertaining one that a 1-0 or 0-0.

I'm glad to hear it, because you are spot on. As for the whole entertainment question, i couldn't really give a toss as long as we get out of this God awful Division.

[Duke]

I am not going to have a rant about Mark Wright on this thread but suffice it to say the only reason we had so many corners was because he kept on hitting the first defender with his crosses if some of them had actually got into the box then we would be talking about a 2 or 3-0 victory and maybe then we could have been entertained.

To clarify my above statement - If we had a buffer of two goals i think we may have opened up a bit and so played more attractive football, Torquay would have to come at us even more to salvage something and thus create more space which we could expolit.

I have seen a few really dull 2-0 games, so i am not saying that a 2-0 game is automatically a more entertaining one that a 1-0 or 0-0.

I'm glad to hear it, because you are spot on. As for the whole entertainment question, i couldn't really give a toss as long as we get out of this God awful Division.

here here

[boringteacher]

even during Mersons "reign" I couldn't be bothered to offer personal insults as some part of me knew that his defenders probably felt that they had the best interests of the club at heart. Even though I was going to chuck in the season ticket that I've had for the majority of the past thirty years if the club hadn't sacked him when they did, I thought that they still had a right to their views. Now that we 're actually doing well, can we actually try to give the players and manager a chance?

At the end of last season, the squad looked fit for relegation to the conference. With pretty much the same players, we are probably going to be promoted comfortably because we now have a team spirit, team organisation and players who actually know what they are supposed to be doing. The team remind me of what we had under sir ray - no real stars, but a solid 442. We weren't always pretty under him, and I can't remember how many times we sat back, closed down the opposition and stopped them from scoring. Sorry to remind those who yearn for the "beautiful football" that Merson gave us, but to compare the current way of playing with the horribly negative stuff that Lee ended up playing is completely wrong.

Give DD a chance - we need stability and to retain this bloke for years to come. He has the makings of one our great managers.

[Magic Man Fan]

sid, dler, Bernie & Cully. The facts are this.

We are top of the league.

You pay £18 to get in which you don't see as value for money. Fair enough.

However, it is YOUR choice to pay that £18. If you don't feel you are being entrtained, don't go. Simple as that.

You don't watch a film or TV programme a second time that hasn't entertained you the first. Being boring but winning is becoming a theme, which personally I feel isn't helped by our oppositions insistence to make things difficult and grab a point. So you pretty much know what will happen next game. It's your choice.

Sid, last season you refused to come while M*rs*n was in charge. Fair play to you. In that time we were losing. Now were are winning. Make the same pledge and say you won't come while DD is in charge if you feel so strongly about it. It's the same reason after all, isn't it?

[1933]

£18!?

Only £12 quid in the Lower Floors to Go, better value for money down there :lol:

There's not much I'd like to add to the thread other then 3 points are all that matter to me and I don't care how we get them.

Ian Roper is my idol 8)

Up The Saddlers

[Bernie]

sid, dler, Bernie & Cully. The facts are this.

We are top of the league.

You pay £18 to get in which you don't see as value for money. Fair enough.

However, it is YOUR choice to pay that £18. If you don't feel you are being entrtained, don't go. Simple as that.

You don't watch a film or TV programme a second time that hasn't entertained you the first. Being boring but winning is becoming a theme, which personally I feel isn't helped by our oppositions insistence to make things difficult and grab a point. So you pretty much know what will happen next game. It's your choice.

Sid, last season you refused to come while M*rs*n was in charge. Fair play to you. In that time we were losing. Now were are winning. Make the same pledge and say you won't come while DD is in charge if you feel so strongly about it. It's the same reason after all, isn't it?

In other words STOP MOANING AND GET BEHIND THE LADS

[Bernie]

even during Mersons "reign" I couldn't be bothered to offer personal insults as some part of me knew that his defenders probably felt that they had the best interests of the club at heart. Even though I was going to chuck in the season ticket that I've had for the majority of the past thirty years if the club hadn't sacked him when they did, I thought that they still had a right to their views. Now that we 're actually doing well, can we actually try to give the players and manager a chance?

At the end of last season, the squad looked fit for relegation to the conference. With pretty much the same players, we are probably going to be promoted comfortably because we now have a team spirit, team organisation and players who actually know what they are supposed to be doing. The team remind me of what we had under sir ray - no real stars, but a solid 442. We weren't always pretty under him, and I can't remember how many times we sat back, closed down the opposition and stopped them from scoring. Sorry to remind those who yearn for the "beautiful football" that Merson gave us, but to compare the current way of playing with the horribly negative stuff that Lee ended up playing is completely wrong.

Give DD a chance - we need stability and to retain this bloke for years to come. He has the makings of one our great managers.

In other words STOP MOANING AND GET BEHIND THE LADS

[futuresobright]

It has been along time since I have agreed with so many posts on a single thread. Despite being top of the division this is anything but a vintage season so far. Indeed, as I have said before we have a weaker squad, playing worse football than we had 12 months ago. Ince is undoubtedly proving to be a very strong goalkeeper. The manner in which he has dealt with crosses in recent matches has been tremendously impressive. With good support from Roper, Gerrard, Dann and Westwood he has made it extremely difficult for the the opposition to score.
But our forward line and midfield are very weak. Surely DD has seen enough of Sam, and if we had any sort of quality forwards Butler would be on the bench after a month of poor performances.
Perhaps most disappointing is DD's reluctance to use Ishmel. Who doubts, apart fromDD, that the lumbering full backs in this division would rather face Wrack, Fox or Taylor than Ishy?

[We-ARE-Walsall]

It has been along time since I have agreed with so many posts on a single thread. Despite being top of the division this is anything but a vintage season so far. Indeed, as I have said before we have a weaker squad, playing worse football than we had 12 months ago. Ince is undoubtedly proving to be a very strong goalkeeper. The manner in which he has dealt with crosses in recent matches has been tremendously impressive. With good support from Roper, Gerrard, Dann and Westwood he has made it extremely difficult for the the opposition to score.
But our forward line and midfield are very weak. Surely DD has seen enough of Sam, and if we had any sort of quality forwards Butler would be on the bench after a month of poor performances.
Perhaps most disappointing is DD's reluctance to use Ishmel. Who doubts, apart fromDD, that the lumbering full backs in this division would rather face Wrack, Fox or Taylor than Ishy?

Alright Bernie it is a bit boring now we know who you are :D

[Magic Man Fan]

sid, dler, Bernie & Cully. The facts are this.

We are top of the league.

You pay £18 to get in which you don't see as value for money. Fair enough.

However, it is YOUR choice to pay that £18. If you don't feel you are being entrtained, don't go. Simple as that.

You don't watch a film or TV programme a second time that hasn't entertained you the first. Being boring but winning is becoming a theme, which personally I feel isn't helped by our oppositions insistence to make things difficult and grab a point. So you pretty much know what will happen next game. It's your choice.

Sid, last season you refused to come while M*rs*n was in charge. Fair play to you. In that time we were losing. Now were are winning. Make the same pledge and say you won't come while DD is in charge if you feel so strongly about it. It's the same reason after all, isn't it?

In other words STOP MOANING AND GET BEHIND THE LADS

Indeed. ;)

Seriously though, no, moan all you like about players, formations etc etc, I just don't think it's right to moan about entertainment levels and price. We know pretty much what to expect after seeing Money's side so far. Every manager has a trademark style and this is Money's. Like it or lump it.

I'm prepared to bit my tongue on criticism as long as we are successful. I can see lot's of room for improvement and I will make my feelings clear when results change for the worse. So if it does go wrong, no smart @rse can say we told you this months ago when we were winning. I can see the problems but I just don't see the point in complaining too much when the ultimate goal is being achieved.

[shrewsbury saddler]

Probably Lincoln and Swindon played in more entertaining games yesterday.But I bet their fans would swap the entertainment for our 3 points.
I've said it before-you could transplant a decent premiership team into this division and they wouldn't win playing sublime football all that often.they'd have to battle.there will be games when we dominate playing impressive stuff.but promotion will be decided by how we do when this isn't possible-and so far DD's team have answered every challenge.

[WS1]

First half was poor, but we dominated most of the second half and I was entertained more than adequately by that.

The ref was entertaining too, certainly got me shouting anyway, the incompetent pr@t !

I'm happy with the turnaround from last season, happy with our league position, happy with our clean sheets at home, happy to see other teams falling away.

We are 3 points clear with a better goal difference, 7 points clear of Swindon, and 12 points ahead of the first team outside the play-off frame. Just what is there to be unhappy about ? I'll take this any day of the week.

Well said Geoff, what do people some supporters want---Merson back !!!!!!!!!! only joking :wink:

[WS1]

First half was poor, but we dominated most of the second half and I was entertained more than adequately by that.

The ref was entertaining too, certainly got me shouting anyway, the incompetent pr@t !

I'm happy with the turnaround from last season, happy with our league position, happy with our clean sheets at home, happy to see other teams falling away.

We are 3 points clear with a better goal difference, 7 points clear of Swindon, and 12 points ahead of the first team outside the play-off frame. Just what is there to be unhappy about ? I'll take this any day of the week.

Well said Geoff, what do people some supporters want---Merson back !!!!!!!!!! only joking :wink:

[Exile]

It has been along time since I have agreed with so many posts on a single thread. Despite being top of the division this is anything but a vintage season so far. Indeed, as I have said before we have a weaker squad, playing worse football than we had 12 months ago. Ince is undoubtedly proving to be a very strong goalkeeper. The manner in which he has dealt with crosses in recent matches has been tremendously impressive. With good support from Roper, Gerrard, Dann and Westwood he has made it extremely difficult for the the opposition to score.
But our forward line and midfield are very weak. Surely DD has seen enough of Sam, and if we had any sort of quality forwards Butler would be on the bench after a month of poor performances.
Perhaps most disappointing is DD's reluctance to use Ishmel. Who doubts, apart fromDD, that the lumbering full backs in this division would rather face Wrack, Fox or Taylor than Ishy?

I agree with fsb :oops: .

Well, mostly. The squad's weaker in the forwards due to one obvious missing face from this time last season, but I do disagree with the 'playing worse football' comment. In the midfield, fsb, you and I are not alone in saying that Dobson / Keates doesn't work, and the weekend experiment with Wrack seems to have clarified the fact that he's not really a wide player. Still unsure on Sam, but there seems to be a call from regular matchgoers for him to stand up and fight, not fall over like a girl. I'd also like to see more of ASBO, and I think a majoirty would, but it looks like Dickie's chosen to introduce him gradually this season - perhaps he could be a secret weapon in League One next season, as not many opponents will have seen him play that much.

Also agree with Bernie, that there's a place for all opinions, but I don't see that having a majoirty say that one opinion is wrong isn't also valid on the messageboard. It isn't 'gang up on Sid' day, it's lots of people telling him they think he's wrong, and to be fair to Sid, he's argued his point most politely and insistently. Doesn't mean I agree with him though (sorry, Sid).

[Bristol Fan]

Also agree with Bernie, that there's a place for all opinions.

This is of course the case, and anybody suggesting that there isn't room for improvement is mistaken, but when you're top of the league after a reasonable number of games, that's the one occasion when saying "stop moaning and get behind the lads" actually has some merit.

I'm a bit surprised we haven't seen more of Ishy - but the Taylor/Fox partnership has worked well. It was a shame that it was interrupted to make room for Wrack, when such accommodation had never been made for the far more potent-seeming threat of Ishy - and parity was restored when the same became true of that partnership in the second half yesterday.

The central midfield and partner-for-Butler issues are the places where I would like to see a change. Keates hasn't been bad individually, but Dobson is clearly the better player and needs a partner who will allow him to get on with things. A creative midfielder should be top of the shopping list, I think. Second top would be a striker because Sam just isn't doing it any more (having been excellent at the start of the season) and maybe thinks he doesn't have any competition, since Constable is obviously very out-of-favour and Bedeau is desperately poor.

[Cheesebag]

I agree with fsb :oops: .

BAN HIM :lol: