Brexit Breakfast

[tinned]

What, now it was a work of carefully concealed comedy genius? Go back and read it, then inform me where I've so clearly got the obvious hilarious quip so very wrong. It wasn't even a response to you.

Comedy genius? Me? I can only wish!

Just an off the cuff remark that pointed out you used a funny remark to swerve a sensible question from Pinnacle.

No malice intended.

[SaigonSaddler]

What, now it was a work of carefully concealed comedy genius? Go back and read it, then inform me where I've so clearly got the obvious hilarious quip so very wrong. It wasn't even a response to you.

Comedy genius? Me? I can only wish!

Just an off the cuff remark that pointed out you used a funny remark to swerve a sensible question from Pinnacle.

There wasn't a sensible question though was there?

We were 4th in 1970 before our entry into the common market, slipped to 5th within a year later and pretty much stayed there since !
Where is your answer to the Italian swing in the vote or are you waiting for them to justify themselves to you and Robin :lol:

There was a statement and a flippant question, ending in an absurd and amusing caricature. Fine. Think I'm allowed to respond equally flippantly. Your assertion that I dodged the question remains, both in the original:

Translated that reads "I've got no answer to that so will make a "funny" quip".

And above. Still trying to find how I'm not supposed to take that at face and rather snotty value. And I did answer it, at your insistence:

suppose I had better earnestly hack my way through the latest non-event of a Brexit point.

Except their isn't one. We've fallen from 5th to 6th in November 2017 following a post-Brexit drop in growth. No surprise - it was predicted and has happened.

And Italy voting in a general election is a vast chasm away from Italy leaving, which is again another chasm away from the break-up of the EU.

The end. Nothing dodged and not much in the way of misunderstanding. Let's move on.

[shrewsbury saddler]

Radio 4's Today programme came from Gibraltar this morning, so I assume that's where the uncredited story is supposed to be from. Can you give the approximate time of this story? I must have missed it.

Nothing so far. Maybe I can help. Was this what you referring to?

'"We're very linked to the UK, we see the world through British eyes and we don't want to change that," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

"But at the same time, we believe we should be engaging more closely with Spain. I think we can create, even despite Brexit, a rainbow of opportunities for people who live in the bay of Gibraltar and the wealth that Gibraltar creates."' (BBC)

Hardly "embracing" "a great opportunity," is it?

Heard the item before leaving for work on bbc 4 about 8 am. I can reply to your enquiry now I have returned.
Patience is a virtue.Be patient with Brexit all will be rosy.

I presume you mean the report at about 7:50. I'm not sure what I was supposed to be hearing. There was a man putting forward an opinion that the 95% vote to remain wouldn't be so high now. It can't be that, because earlier in this thread, you've already dismissed any possible changes in voting pattern since 2016 as an irrelevance.

Maybe it was the bit bit about European insurance companies thinking about setting up in Gibraltar. An opportunity,yes. But I'm not sure it's one you can use, as Gibraltar was being given as an alternative to setting up in the UK.

[Manchester Saddler]

Have you been taking drugs today Tinned?

Are you asking or making an accusation?

Just a bit of banter, Tinned.

banter

noun
1.
the playful and friendly exchange of teasing remarks.
"there was much good-natured banter"
synonyms: repartee, raillery, ripostes, sallies, swordplay, quips, wisecracks, crosstalk, wordplay; More
verb
1.
exchange remarks in a good-humoured teasing way.
"the men bantered with the waitresses"
synonyms: joke, jest, pun, sally, quip;

[Manchester Saddler]

Interesting reading:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43336351

[NEWPORT SADDLERS DAD]

Interesting reading

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_p ... referendum

[Manchester Saddler]

Interesting reading

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_p ... referendum

Very interesting actually, in particular, the "polling within professional groups section":

The Confederation of British Industry reported a survey of 773 of its members, carried out by ComRes. With numbers adjusted to reflect CBI membership, the poll indicated that 80% of CBI members saw a "remain" outcome as the best outcome for their business, with 5% seeing "leave" as the best outcome.

In a poll of 350 board directors of UK businesses, published in June 2015, 82% agreed with the statement that "the UK's membership of the EU is good for British businesses", while 12% disagreed.

In May 2016, law firm King & Wood Mallesons published a survey of 300 businesses, equally split between France, Spain, Italy, and Germany. Asked about the prospect of the UK leaving the EU, 68% said it would adversely affect their businesses and 62% said they would be less likely to do business in the UK. When asked to name ways in which their businesses could benefit from Brexit, a majority of respondents in France, Italy, and Spain said that their countries could benefit as companies move jobs out of the UK.

In March 2016, Nature reported a survey of 907 active science researchers based in the UK. Of these, 78% said exit from the EU would be "somewhat harmful" or "very harmful" for UK science, with 9% saying it would be "somewhat beneficial" or "very beneficial".

Legal Week surveyed almost 350 partners in legal firms. Of these, 77% said that a UK exit from the EU would have a "negative" or "very negative" effect on the City's position in global financial markets, with 6.2% predicting a "positive" effect.

The Financial Times surveyed 105 economists about how an exit from the EU would affect their views of the UK's prospects, publishing the results in January 2016. In the medium term, 76 respondents (72%) said the UK's prospects would be worse, 8 (7.6%) said they would be better, and 18 (17%) predicted no difference.

It's interesting because I think that Brexiters simply do not realise how bad it will be.

Taking the case for Business. surely, Business Leaders' opinions count? Surely economists opinions count?

The bottom line is that most Brexiters do not really understand how the EU works and what the prospects for trade etc, are.

They are called Business Leaders for a reason.

This is the reason why the majority of MPs don't want to leave the EU too.

The result has come down to people who simply don't know how business works, how the economy works, how the legal system works all making a terrible choice because of things like immigration, fuelled by xenophobia. The older generation in particular. A family member, for example, who is in his mid-70s and voted Leave actually said to me:

"Well - we won't be around to see the fallout probably. It's the younger generation who will have to sort it out."

Fantastic! Absolutely fantastic!

[reedswood sadler]

The result has come down to people who simply don't know how business works, how the economy works, how the legal system works all making a terrible choice because of things like immigration, fuelled by xenophobia. The older generation in particular. A family member, for example, who is in his mid-70s and voted Leave actually said to me:

"Well - we won't be around to see the fallout probably. It's the younger generation who will have to sort it out."

Fantastic! Absolutely fantastic![/quote]

After all the passion and arguments that you put forward to remain which I respect if not always agree with I am surprised that you have come out with the remainers fall back stance all remainers do not understand ( thick ) are mainly racists and of course blame us old guys for everything.
The oldies turned out to vote as we usually do while the youngsters who are doing a lot of moaning could not be bothered to get of their x boxes or facebook to go and vote.
You are more into this than me but I believe I read only 26% of youngsters voted just think what could have happened if only more of them bothered.
You could say the result would have been reversed blame them not me.

[swampysaddler]

Interesting reading

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_p ... referendum

Very interesting actually, in particular, the "polling within professional groups section":

The Confederation of British Industry reported a survey of 773 of its members, carried out by ComRes. With numbers adjusted to reflect CBI membership, the poll indicated that 80% of CBI members saw a "remain" outcome as the best outcome for their business, with 5% seeing "leave" as the best outcome.

In a poll of 350 board directors of UK businesses, published in June 2015, 82% agreed with the statement that "the UK's membership of the EU is good for British businesses", while 12% disagreed.

In May 2016, law firm King & Wood Mallesons published a survey of 300 businesses, equally split between France, Spain, Italy, and Germany. Asked about the prospect of the UK leaving the EU, 68% said it would adversely affect their businesses and 62% said they would be less likely to do business in the UK. When asked to name ways in which their businesses could benefit from Brexit, a majority of respondents in France, Italy, and Spain said that their countries could benefit as companies move jobs out of the UK.

In March 2016, Nature reported a survey of 907 active science researchers based in the UK. Of these, 78% said exit from the EU would be "somewhat harmful" or "very harmful" for UK science, with 9% saying it would be "somewhat beneficial" or "very beneficial".

Legal Week surveyed almost 350 partners in legal firms. Of these, 77% said that a UK exit from the EU would have a "negative" or "very negative" effect on the City's position in global financial markets, with 6.2% predicting a "positive" effect.

The Financial Times surveyed 105 economists about how an exit from the EU would affect their views of the UK's prospects, publishing the results in January 2016. In the medium term, 76 respondents (72%) said the UK's prospects would be worse, 8 (7.6%) said they would be better, and 18 (17%) predicted no difference.

It's interesting because I think that Brexiters simply do not realise how bad it will be.

Taking the case for Business. surely, Business Leaders' opinions count? Surely economists opinions count?

The bottom line is that most Brexiters do not really understand how the EU works and what the prospects for trade etc, are.

They are called Business Leaders for a reason.

This is the reason why the majority of MPs don't want to leave the EU too.

The result has come down to people who simply don't know how business works, how the economy works, how the legal system works all making a terrible choice because of things like immigration, fuelled by xenophobia. The older generation in particular. A family member, for example, who is in his mid-70s and voted Leave actually said to me:

"Well - we won't be around to see the fallout probably. It's the younger generation who will have to sort it out."

Fantastic! Absolutely fantastic!

And with that one paragraph you prove what I and others think of you.
You are an arrogant, patronising, egotistical person (note no insult, you have just proved everything I have said about the ego) who thinks he knows everything but actually knows little or nothing.
May I just say thank you again for proving mine and many others opinion of the great and knowledgeable Manchester Saddler. barclays.

[Manchester Saddler]

Ah - so basically you start resorting to insults instead of engaging?

That's okay, Swampy. I can take it.

Anyway, I have nothing to say to you in return because, like I said, I've learned everything I need to from you.

Thanks for replying anyway.

:mrgreen:

[Manchester Saddler]

The result has come down to people who simply don't know how business works, how the economy works, how the legal system works all making a terrible choice because of things like immigration, fuelled by xenophobia. The older generation in particular. A family member, for example, who is in his mid-70s and voted Leave actually said to me:

"Well - we won't be around to see the fallout probably. It's the younger generation who will have to sort it out."

Fantastic! Absolutely fantastic!

After all the passion and arguments that you put forward to remain which I respect if not always agree with I am surprised that you have come out with the remainers fall back stance all remainers do not understand ( thick ) are mainly racists and of course blame us old guys for everything.
The oldies turned out to vote as we usually do while the youngsters who are doing a lot of moaning could not be bothered to get of their x boxes or facebook to go and vote.
You are more into this than me but I believe I read only 26% of youngsters voted just think what could have happened if only more of them bothered.
You could say the result would have been reversed blame them not me.

I didn't say that all Leavers are thick - I've been called thick by Leavers for voting Remain (take a look at Cully's retorts for example.

It was a trend.

Immigration is the biggest reason for Brexit based on what I have read. I didn't mention racism - xenophobia is a different beast and certainly amongst some of the older generation (people my age and younger are included), it is a big reason. Take Cowshed's seven Megacity example - scared that with the influx of so many immigrants, the island would fill up eventually. Maybe I am being a bit unfair picking on Cowshed (sorry about that - I actually quite enjoy sparring with you :D ) but I've heard that a lot from Leavers.

Another one - this time from the Mother-in-Law - "There are too many migrants in the NHS!" - a headline she read somewhere in the Daily Express and a similar thing that has been mentioned previously on here by somebody - Health Tourism. We had a good debate about that because without migrants the NHS would be in an even bigger mess than it is.

I can cite more examples if you want.

The fact is that I didn't know that much about economics and business but I read up on it and have learned a little bit, particularly about the fears of people owning and running businesses.

I do agree with you on one thing though - the youngsters should gave got up off their arses and voted.

The problem is that many of them don't really care about politics at that age. I know I didn't.

I do now - probably when it's too late.

The final thing I will say is that I too am an old git. In fact, I fit into the demographic that actually voted Leave if you look at my age, etc. If you take a look at age and Leave voters, the trend is there in plain sight.

I'm sorry if I have upset some people but in a moment of frustration, the red mist sometimes descends and I think my passion overflows.

I still think that Brexit is a massive mistake and if only people had known more at the time then maybe we wouldn't have to worry about what is already happening and what will ultimately happen!

I just want people to look into what I'm saying - that's all!

[SaigonSaddler]

... you prove what I and others think of you.
You are an arrogant, patronising, egotistical person (note no insult) who thinks he knows everything but actually knows little or nothing. barclays.

:?:

No more drinks for Lord Swampington please, he's had enough!

:shock: :D :wink:

[chunkster]

You worry me manc, we have just had a season changing decision made by the board by sacking the manager, and not only have you not posted anything about it, you continue to argue about shite down here, are you REALLY a saddlers fan or just a brexit troll that happened to be born in walsall :|

[Manchester Saddler]

You worry me manc, we have just had a season changing decision made by the board by sacking the manager, and not only have you not posted anything about it, you continue to argue about shite down here, are you REALLY a saddlers fan or just a brexit troll that happened to be born in walsall :|

Thanks for your concern, Chunkster, and thanks for the veiled insult (yet another one :? ).

FYI News of the sacking of a Walsall manager doesn't tend to feature on the local news in Manchester and I didn't spot it in the All About Walsall section. To be honest I am more of a lurker there these days to get the gist of what's going on - particularly following my views on the sacking of Colin Lee all those years ago caused some controversy.

For your information, I was a Saddler probably before you (not sure of your age - apologies if I'm younger than you - I doubt it though) and although I don't go to that many games these days I follow my team with fervour and fight the cause up here amongst the Man United, Man City, Bolton, Blackburn, Wigan and , yes, even one Accrington Stanley fan!

I may post later and open myself up for yet another front to attack me on by actually posting my true thoughts on Whitney - in fact I'll give you a taster here. Basically there is no way I would ever consider being a football manager because whatever you do in the job you are screwed and will only survive a year or two if you are lucky. Statistically Whitney had run his course at Walsall FC and I am not surprised - but ultimately I think he should have statyed until the end of the season. Now the likelihood is that we will be lucky not to end up being sucked into a relegation scrap with a new manager who hardly knows the team.

Happy?

[reedswood sadler]

The result has come down to people who simply don't know how business works, how the economy works, how the legal system works all making a terrible choice because of things like immigration, fuelled by xenophobia. The older generation in particular. A family member, for example, who is in his mid-70s and voted Leave actually said to me:

"Well - we won't be around to see the fallout probably. It's the younger generation who will have to sort it out."

Fantastic! Absolutely fantastic!

After all the passion and arguments that you put forward to remain which I respect if not always agree with I am surprised that you have come out with the remainers fall back stance all remainers do not understand ( thick ) are mainly racists and of course blame us old guys for everything.
The oldies turned out to vote as we usually do while the youngsters who are doing a lot of moaning could not be bothered to get of their x boxes or facebook to go and vote.
You are more into this than me but I believe I read only 26% of youngsters voted just think what could have happened if only more of them bothered.
You could say the result would have been reversed blame them not me.

I didn't say that all Leavers are thick - I've been called thick by Leavers for voting Remain (take a look at Cully's retorts for example.

It was a trend.

Immigration is the biggest reason for Brexit based on what I have read. I didn't mention racism - xenophobia is a different beast and certainly amongst some of the older generation (people my age and younger are included), it is a big reason. Take Cowshed's seven Megacity example - scared that with the influx of so many immigrants, the island would fill up eventually. Maybe I am being a bit unfair picking on Cowshed (sorry about that - I actually quite enjoy sparring with you :D ) but I've heard that a lot from Leavers.

Another one - this time from the Mother-in-Law - "There are too many migrants in the NHS!" - a headline she read somewhere in the Daily Express and a similar thing that has been mentioned previously on here by somebody - Health Tourism. We had a good debate about that because without migrants the NHS would be in an even bigger mess than it is.

I can cite more examples if you want.

The fact is that I didn't know that much about economics and business but I read up on it and have learned a little bit, particularly about the fears of people owning and running businesses.

I do agree with you on one thing though - the youngsters should gave got up off their arses and voted.

The problem is that many of them don't really care about politics at that age. I know I didn't.

I do now - probably when it's too late.

The final thing I will say is that I too am an old git. In fact, I fit into the demographic that actually voted Leave if you look at my age, etc. If you take a look at age and Leave voters, the trend is there in plain sight.

I'm sorry if I have upset some people but in a moment of frustration, the red mist sometimes descends and I think my passion overflows.

I still think that Brexit is a massive mistake and if only people had known more at the time then maybe we wouldn't have to worry about what is already happening and what will ultimately happen!

I just want people to look into what I'm saying - that's all!

No offence meant Manchester I just get annoyed with hearing it all the while and how we have ruined youngsters futures when they could not even be bothered to vote.
It is not easy to get neutral information for every " expert " in finance, buisness or goverment who says Brexit will be a disaster another " expert "will tell you it will be okay who do you believe the one who agrees with you or the other side.

[Manchester Saddler]

That's a fair point - I tend to believe percentages and people in that field I have encountered plus my own feelings on the matter, given that I think the EU is a good thing and has proven to be over the last 20 or so years in particular.

The bottom line is that up to now there is nothing wrong with the UK and how it fits into the EU.

We have thrown it all in the skip based on - on what exactly?

That's why I simply do not understand the Brexit mentality given what we have to lose.

And nobody can explain it to me.

No offence taken BTW Reedswood and once again I apologise if I stepped over your line.

:D

[Morty]

UK growth to be slowest of all G20 nations:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43384718

But that's okay as it's a prediction by experts and therefore doesn't count!! :evil:

[tinned]

I like this chap and his common sense.

http://www.digbylordjones.com/apples-and-pears.html

[Manchester Saddler]

I like this chap and his common sense.

http://www.digbylordjones.com/apples-and-pears.html

And he is so biased - an uber-Brexiter. He is supposedly trying to discuss a "common sense" approach yet constantly calls half the country "Remoaners" without explaining why Brexit is good.

Tinned - it's simple.

We have been in the EU for 43 years and we have absolutely thrived. We are better off now than we have ever been.

So why on Earth is leaving the EU a good thing?

Lord Digby Jones certainly added nothing in his post to make "Remoaners" change their minds. On the contrary, it has made me probably more worried than ever.

[chunkster]

You worry me manc, we have just had a season changing decision made by the board by sacking the manager, and not only have you not posted anything about it, you continue to argue about shite down here, are you REALLY a saddlers fan or just a brexit troll that happened to be born in walsall :|

Thanks for your concern, Chunkster, and thanks for the veiled insult (yet another one :? ).

FYI News of the sacking of a Walsall manager doesn't tend to feature on the local news in Manchester and I didn't spot it in the All About Walsall section. To be honest I am more of a lurker there these days to get the gist of what's going on - particularly following my views on the sacking of Colin Lee all those years ago caused some controversy.

For your information, I was a Saddler probably before you (not sure of your age - apologies if I'm younger than you - I doubt it though) and although I don't go to that many games these days I follow my team with fervour and fight the cause up here amongst the Man United, Man City, Bolton, Blackburn, Wigan and , yes, even one Accrington Stanley fan!

I may post later and open myself up for yet another front to attack me on by actually posting my true thoughts on Whitney - in fact I'll give you a taster here. Basically there is no way I would ever consider being a football manager because whatever you do in the job you are screwed and will only survive a year or two if you are lucky. Statistically Whitney had run his course at Walsall FC and I am not surprised - but ultimately I think he should have statyed until the end of the season. Now the likelihood is that we will be lucky not to end up being sucked into a relegation scrap with a new manager who hardly knows the team.

Happy?

No veiled attack manc, just a little tongue in cheek humour :wink:

[Manchester Saddler]

I kinda guessed that but thought I would oblige anyway!

:D

[tinned]

I like this chap and his common sense.

http://www.digbylordjones.com/apples-and-pears.html

And he is so biased - an uber-Brexiter. He is supposedly trying to discuss a "common sense" approach yet constantly calls half the country "Remoaners" without explaining why Brexit is good.

Tinned - it's simple.

We have been in the EU for 43 years and we have absolutely thrived. We are better off now than we have ever been.

So why on Earth is leaving the EU a good thing?

Lord Digby Jones certainly added nothing in his post to make "Remoaners" change their minds. On the contrary, it has made me probably more worried than ever.

You keep harping on about business leaders forecasting doom for the country after Brexit and we're supposed to take their word as gospel. Another very experienced, respected and successful businessman makes arguments in favour of Brexit and you write him off as a fool. Whoda thunk it? :?

[chestersaddler]

I like this chap and his common sense.

http://www.digbylordjones.com/apples-and-pears.html

Tinned - I have been at numerous CBI events when this man was Director General - so far up his own arse it beggars belief. Was peddling the same crap 15 years ago, praising China and other low cost economies where workers rights are non existent. He would have people work for £2 an hour if it meant giving business an "edge".

[SaigonSaddler]

But it's always possible to wheel out an individual who bucks a trend and advance these as a visionary genius.

Look at the general picture - the CBI and BCC both agree that Brexit is a dangerous experiment at the very, very best and have repeatedly highlighted the negative impacts on the economy. And it's a fact that they state this.

[chestersaddler]

But it's always possible to wheel out an individual who bucks a trend and advance these as a visionary genius.

Look at the general picture - the CBI and BCC both agree that Brexit is a dangerous experiment at the very, very best and have repeatedly highlighted the negative impacts on the economy. And it's a fact that they state this.

I am active in the CBI in Wales. The vast majority of businesses are pro remain. Generally the leavers tend to be smaller family owned businesses who, in my view see Brexit as an excuse to reduce employees rights whilst lining their own pockets.

[tinned]

And it's a fact that they state this.

I don't doubt you. Doesn't mean it IS a fact though, does it?

[SaigonSaddler]

And it's a fact that they state this.

I don't doubt you. Doesn't mean it IS a fact though, does it?

Well the fact is unfolding and confirming their predictions thus far.

[NEWPORT SADDLERS DAD]

But it's always possible to wheel out an individual who bucks a trend and advance these as a visionary genius.

Look at the general picture - the CBI and BCC both agree that Brexit is a dangerous experiment at the very, very best and have repeatedly highlighted the negative impacts on the economy. And it's a fact that they state this.

But its not the CBI & BCC that vote in referendums is it.

[SaigonSaddler]

But it's always possible to wheel out an individual who bucks a trend and advance these as a visionary genius.

Look at the general picture - the CBI and BCC both agree that Brexit is a dangerous experiment at the very, very best and have repeatedly highlighted the negative impacts on the economy. And it's a fact that they state this.

But its not the CBI & BCC that vote in referendums is it.

As indivduals, yes. They exist as groups to inform and guide business best practice.

Ignore at your peril, oh you already did.

[Super Gabor]

I like this chap and his common sense.

http://www.digbylordjones.com/apples-and-pears.html

I like Digby Jones too. Have heard him interviewed many times and consistently talks common sense on the economy, skills, investment and what is needed to help British businesses compete more effectively. On Brexit, I don't agree with him, as I still think it's a shocking decision. That said, the more we corral upbeat, energetic yet realistic voices from the business world over the coming months, the better.