Brexit Breakfast

[Cowshed]

May is being lobbied to make the vote on brexit a no confidence vote so that any mp thinking of voting down the plans know they will also be fighting for their seat

Oh really?

So are these lobbyists trying to force MP's hands? Hardly the democracy you appear to crave is it? Especially as the referendum vote was "Leave or Remain" and not "Remain, BRINO, Soft Brexit, Medium Brexit, Harder Brexit, Throw us off a cliff and fork the country".

The only choices are reverse Brexit or have another referendum!

Any MP who votes against his conscience to save his seat doesn't deserve to be an MP.

The half the population that are Remainers do not deserve this!

Mmmm fork the country

With around 750k births and 500k deaths and 250k net immigration we need to build a city the size of Birmingham (1m) every 2 years.

Tell me Manchester how many cities the size of the 2nd city do you think this island could sustain. Serious question tell me a number

More Brexit rollbacks than a supermarket sweep:

Theresa May has conceded that EU migrants who come to Britain during the Brexit transition will have the right to settle permanently in the UK, in a major climbdown over future residency rights.
The concession, slipped out in a Brexit policy paper by the Home Office, also makes clear that EU migrants who arrive after March 2019 will be given a five-year temporary residence permit, not the two-year one that was previously proposed by ministers.

Still can't square the circle can you? The much needed custons Union = free movement. Also, this hasn't impacted whatsoever on immigration outside the EU, which appears to be the trigger point for most concerns about immigration.

Do you know I haven't found a remainder yet that gives me a number


Ok Saigon I put it to you how many cities?

It's not a trick and there is no right or wrong answer

Simple question

Just tell me in your opinion how many cities should be built before we say enough now

[reedswood sadler]

In short, yes. Equally, I guess you are certain that people won't have changed their minds.

The only way to find out is a second referendum.

:D

I am not in favour of a 2nd referendum, no more than I was the first one. This is far too complex a subject to allow everyone to have an equal say. We elect our MP's to make these decisions for us. If we cannot trust them to make the right decisions for the country we should vote them out. I am happy if Parliament decides, happier if they keep us in, but will accept if they take us out.

Chester saddler this is the first sensible post on this thread I voted to leave and would do so again but agree with what you say.

[NEWPORT SADDLERS DAD]

For example I saw a poll that contradicts yours and states that if there were another referendum then Remain would win by 51% to 49% - a bit of a swing then.

:lol:

Surely a referendum result this close would trigger a 3rd referendum or would you like to stick this time. :)

[SaigonSaddler]

More Brexit rollbacks than a supermarket sweep:

Theresa May has conceded that EU migrants who come to Britain during the Brexit transition will have the right to settle permanently in the UK, in a major climbdown over future residency rights.
The concession, slipped out in a Brexit policy paper by the Home Office, also makes clear that EU migrants who arrive after March 2019 will be given a five-year temporary residence permit, not the two-year one that was previously proposed by ministers.

Still can't square the circle can you? The much needed custons Union = free movement. Also, this hasn't impacted whatsoever on immigration outside the EU, which appears to be the trigger point for most concerns about immigration.

Do you know I haven't found a remainder yet that gives me a number
Ok Saigon I put it to you how many cities?
It's not a trick and there is no right or wrong answer
Simple question
Just tell me in your opinion how many cities should be built before we say enough now

Have you found anyone yet to give you a number? I mean a realistic number and the method to obtain it?

Didn't think so.

Immigration brings benefits as well as challenges, and while it can be an emotive trigger point for some of the worst kind of jingoism and prejudice, it's easy to lose sight of the gaps in the economy it fills, be it doctors or vegetable pickers.

It's also easy to lump immigrants together in one enormous mass, choosing the worst example to represent the lot. The vast majority of EU migrants come here for economic reasons. They contribute to society and pay tax.

If you're that concerned about it, then maintaining a strong economy becomes an absolute necessity, but so does having a fair society with a decent living wage. That's one of the biggest problems facing the UK today and the one which leads to social division, frustration and anger. Simply counting heads out of context is a massive red herring.

[SaigonSaddler]

For example I saw a poll that contradicts yours and states that if there were another referendum then Remain would win by 51% to 49% - a bit of a swing then.

Fine. So reference it.

This is where Brexiteers get a bit cagey all of a sudden. Out comes the 'experts - wha'da they know' nonsense.

Why?

Because the experts and the evidence confirms that Brexit is leading to economic decline.

[PINNACLE]

For example I saw a poll that contradicts yours and states that if there were another referendum then Remain would win by 51% to 49% - a bit of a swing then.

Fine. So reference it.

This is where Brexiteers get a bit cagey all of a sudden. Out comes the 'experts - wha'da they know' nonsense.

Why?

Because the experts and the evidence confirms that Brexit is leading to economic decline.

Leave voters (Brexiteers is a derogatory name for them) need to prove nothing, we were asked a once in a lifetime question and responded overwhelmingly.
The people who voted leave are the real experts because the choice that we made was shared by the majority of people who voted.
The only thing that we are cagey about at the moment is the people that we put our trust in and are being let down on a daily basis by our so called peers and betters.
Experts ? That's us mate, we knew it was coming and voted for the winning side so stop with the constant whining and embrace the future whatever it may be. There is never going to be a re-run of the referendum, we are not the Irish who have fought the UK for centuries to gain independence only to dance to the EUs tune and not be allowed to implement the will of the people who voted to leave. Weak people get what they deserve and by capitulating to bullying masters that is exactly what they deserve, how dare they dictate to us ? Puppets dancing to the tune of the puppet masters..........sad.

[swampysaddler]

In short, yes. Equally, I guess you are certain that people won't have changed their minds.

The only way to find out is a second referendum.

:D

Provide these facts then ?
Not just your assumptions due to your mates have changed their minds. Let's see the evidence
I will wait patiently again as per normal.

:lol:

Listen mate, I've been waiting FAR LONGER for ANY Brexiter to even give me a reason why Brexit is so great.

We've given you hundreds of facts about why Brexit is the worst thing we as a country have ever done and you have given us nothing in return.

NOT ONE THING!

I am patient too - definitely MORE patient given your lack of response.

I can only conclude that there ARE NO positives for Brexit.

By the way, the former Brexiters I have spoken to are not all mates. And there is a mix of Tory and Labour voters amongst them.

I asked why they changed their minds and they have cited lots of things such as:

"It was a protest vote against Cameron!"
"After the last few months it's clear that Brexit is a bad idea!"
"The Leave campaign told us a bunch of lies!"
"I didn't really think they would go through with it!"
"The government are forking it up!"
"I made a mistake!"

And lots more.

As soon as I meet somebody new who confesses to being a Brexiter, I engage in conversation with them to find out if they still feel the same and if so why.

Some do, some don't - but the WHY'S are not forthcoming.

Personally I think they are embarrassed.

Are you embarrassed, Swampy? If you don't want to admit you are wrong, that's fine.

PM me!

It's okay, you know. You can talk to me about it.

:D :wink:

Is it me claiming I have evidence to back up my assumptions ? No that's your job. So provide a link or evidence we can all see to substantiate your claim.

Again evidence please !

Has anyone ever told you how patronising you actually are ? If not allow me, you patronising twerp.

[swampysaddler]

All I have to say about this is HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

https://www.westmonster.com/tony-blairs ... er-cost-1/

:lol:

You are cherry picking your sites again Swampy that give you "evidence" for your views.

Here's what people say about Westmonster:

It is co-owned by Michael Heaver, a former press adviser to Nigel Farage. - so its supporters are a little biased then? :lol:

The tone is very similar to Breitbart news, a site that is described by Bloomberg as “a haven for people who think Fox News is too polite and restrained”. Westmonster seems to want to court similar levels of controversy. - :lol: Breitbart - - Donald Trump's only news source.

Westmonster seems to be following suit: on Twitter they link to an article with the headline “BONKERS: Uni Professor says Brits should learn Polish and Punjabi. Yeah, right!” Other articles posted just on their first day include a piece on Marine Le Pen leading in the polls and “REVOLT: Opposition to EU open borders spreading across Europe.” - :lol: Not surprised you are a reader, Swampy to be honest,

For example I saw a poll that contradicts yours and states that if there were another referendum then Remain would win by 51% to 49% - a bit of a swing then.

:lol:

Cheery picking evidence of a poll sanctioned by the Remain saviour Tony Blair.
You remind me of Blair and Major actually. All 3 of you acting like petulant children because you haven't got your own way.
Here have a dummy, suck on that and cry your tears.

[Exile]

Perhaps one of the leave voters could take the time to explain what 'leave' means. What can we expect?

[Cowshed]

More Brexit rollbacks than a supermarket sweep:

Theresa May has conceded that EU migrants who come to Britain during the Brexit transition will have the right to settle permanently in the UK, in a major climbdown over future residency rights.
The concession, slipped out in a Brexit policy paper by the Home Office, also makes clear that EU migrants who arrive after March 2019 will be given a five-year temporary residence permit, not the two-year one that was previously proposed by ministers.

Still can't square the circle can you? The much needed custons Union = free movement. Also, this hasn't impacted whatsoever on immigration outside the EU, which appears to be the trigger point for most concerns about immigration.

Do you know I haven't found a remainder yet that gives me a number
Ok Saigon I put it to you how many cities?
It's not a trick and there is no right or wrong answer
Simple question
Just tell me in your opinion how many cities should be built before we say enough now

Have you found anyone yet to give you a number? I mean a realistic number and the method to obtain it?

Didn't think so.

Immigration brings benefits as well as challenges, and while it can be an emotive trigger point for some of the worst kind of jingoism and prejudice, it's easy to lose sight of the gaps in the economy it fills, be it doctors or vegetable pickers.

It's also easy to lump immigrants together in one enormous mass, choosing the worst example to represent the lot. The vast majority of EU migrants come here for economic reasons. They contribute to society and pay tax.

If you're that concerned about it, then maintaining a strong economy becomes an absolute necessity, but so does having a fair society with a decent living wage. That's one of the biggest problems facing the UK today and the one which leads to social division, frustration and anger. Simply counting heads out of context is a massive red herring.

Thought so

No remainder can ever give a number they bury their heads or default to the prejudice card

It’s not about prejudice

The car park sign is not prejudiced when it says full

When we get to a point that we have spaces then the green light must go on again of course

But there is a finite resource and space and at some point we have to put a tap in there

pure geography will take priority over economic benefits literally a new city every 2 years and the next generations will have to deal with this

So when people say we are messing things up for the younger generations it is in fact the opposite

[SaigonSaddler]

Cowshed - we weren't part of Shengen correct? So we had control over immigration without having to leave.

But 'Full'

Then the plaintive claim for the moral high ground. Boo-hoo prejudice. Have a go at reading what was actually written.

Carpark's full lads, Cowshed says so. :|

[saddla]

Just for your information cowshed the UK has a population density of 267 persons per sq km.
The Netherlands has a population density of 393 and Belgium 337.
They must be double parked in Holland! and they still find room to grow the tulips! :lol:

[Manchester Saddler]

May is being lobbied to make the vote on brexit a no confidence vote so that any mp thinking of voting down the plans know they will also be fighting for their seat

Oh really?

So are these lobbyists trying to force MP's hands? Hardly the democracy you appear to crave is it? Especially as the referendum vote was "Leave or Remain" and not "Remain, BRINO, Soft Brexit, Medium Brexit, Harder Brexit, Throw us off a cliff and fork the country".

The only choices are reverse Brexit or have another referendum!

Any MP who votes against his conscience to save his seat doesn't deserve to be an MP.

The half the population that are Remainers do not deserve this!

Mmmm fork the country

With around 750k births and 500k deaths and 250k net immigration we need to build a city the size of Birmingham (1m) every 2 years.

Tell me Manchester how many cities the size of the 2nd city do you think this island could sustain. Serious question tell me a number

I will tell you a number. Of those 250k migrants, a massive 153k of them come in to study - so we are talking university students who actually pay a fortune to help our higher education system. And most university cities have specific accommodation for them. Of the rest, 61,000 come to work and a smaller percentage come to join their families.

There is something else you should know here - we are 53rd in the world in terms of population density - hardly bursting at the seams. Places like the Netherlands and Belgium have a higher population density.

Also, other EU countries exercise their rights to deport EU citizens who have become a burden to their welfare states. So, for example, Belgium in 2014 sent letters to thousands of EU citizens living in Belgium asking them to leave.

The reason that we seem to attract these kinds of people is because successive governments, Labour, LibDem/Tory alliance and Tory, have not asked such citizens to leave.

If EU citizens or indeed ANY other citizens from other countries come here to work and contribute to our economy then I welcome them. If not then we should exercise our right to deport them. We haven't - that is why xenophobic Brexiters are up in arms and start spouting hysterical nonsense about having to build a new city the size of Birmingham every two years.

Tell me Cowshed - how many new cities the size of Birmingham have been built in the last 10 to 15 years? by your "logic" we should have at least 7!

You asked for numbers, Cowshed - you've got 'em.

Now then - quid pro quo - why is Brexit so great???

[Manchester Saddler]

For example I saw a poll that contradicts yours and states that if there were another referendum then Remain would win by 51% to 49% - a bit of a swing then.

:lol:

Surely a referendum result this close would trigger a 3rd referendum or would you like to stick this time. :)

I will only stick when we end this madness!

Party politics over the future of our country - what a total disaster!!

[Manchester Saddler]

For example I saw a poll that contradicts yours and states that if there were another referendum then Remain would win by 51% to 49% - a bit of a swing then.

Fine. So reference it.

This is where Brexiteers get a bit cagey all of a sudden. Out comes the 'experts - wha'da they know' nonsense.

Why?

Because the experts and the evidence confirms that Brexit is leading to economic decline.

Leave voters (Brexiteers is a derogatory name for them) need to prove nothing, we were asked a once in a lifetime question and responded overwhelmingly.
The people who voted leave are the real experts because the choice that we made was shared by the majority of people who voted.
The only thing that we are cagey about at the moment is the people that we put our trust in and are being let down on a daily basis by our so called peers and betters.
Experts ? That's us mate, we knew it was coming and voted for the winning side so stop with the constant whining and embrace the future whatever it may be. There is never going to be a re-run of the referendum, we are not the Irish who have fought the UK for centuries to gain independence only to dance to the EUs tune and not be allowed to implement the will of the people who voted to leave. Weak people get what they deserve and by capitulating to bullying masters that is exactly what they deserve, how dare they dictate to us ? Puppets dancing to the tune of the puppet masters..........sad.

If you are all such "experts" then tell us "thickos" why Brexit is so great!

Your refusal to do so speaks volumes.

[Manchester Saddler]

Has anyone ever told you how patronising you actually are ? If not allow me, you patronising twerp.

There you go again, Swampy. Clearly you don't recognise a bit of banter and gallows humour so you lash out with insults.

it is a sure sign of defeat, which is why you keep flouncing away before coming back again.

Call me what you want - I have a thick skin.

I'm not going to insult you back because I genuinely want to understand your mindset.

I just don't understand why you keep avoiding the question.

It's perplexing to be honest. I think I know why and your insults go some way to proving my points but then again I may be wrong.

So, again, why am I so wrong about Brexit?

Come on Swampy - tell me!

[Manchester Saddler]

Thought so

No remainder can ever give a number they bury their heads or default to the prejudice card

It’s not about prejudice

The car park sign is not prejudiced when it says full

When we get to a point that we have spaces then the green light must go on again of course

But there is a finite resource and space and at some point we have to put a tap in there

pure geography will take priority over economic benefits literally a new city every 2 years and the next generations will have to deal with this

So when people say we are messing things up for the younger generations it is in fact the opposite

I just did give you some numbers (read the post above).

And I think prejudice and xenophobia have played a chunky part in the leave vote - that is one reason I suspect that Brexiters are unwilling to give me their reasons for leaving.

Prove me wrong Cowshed! I dare you!

I might be travelling this weekend - can you recommend any of the 7 sparkling new Birmingham-sized cities that have shot up in the past 10 to 15 years? Or perhaps not because they are full of foreigners ? Do they have any good football teams to watch? 21 new clubs the size of Villa, West Brom and Birmingham City?

:mrgreen: :D :wink:

[NEWPORT SADDLERS DAD]

Here is an interesting article from the FT for remainers to ignore especially paragraph 10.(which is by the way a FACT )

https://www.ft.com/content/e9f3b8b8-1c6 ... db76e69936

[Exile]

Here is an interesting article from the FT for remainers to ignore especially paragraph 10.(which is by the way a FACT )

https://www.ft.com/content/e9f3b8b8-1c6 ... db76e69936

Paywalled. Please quote paragraph 10. Otherwise it's a fluff piece about a car being made in the UK because the manufacturer had already committed substantial capital to retool a factory before a certain referendum...

[NEWPORT SADDLERS DAD]

Here is an interesting article from the FT for remainers to ignore especially paragraph 10.(which is by the way a FACT )

https://www.ft.com/content/e9f3b8b8-1c6 ... db76e69936

Paywalled. Please quote paragraph 10. Otherwise it's a fluff piece about a car being made in the UK because the manufacturer had already committed substantial capital to retool a factory before a certain referendum...

Not a FACT then? or is it a brexit FACT that doesn't count.

[Exile]

Here is an interesting article from the FT for remainers to ignore especially paragraph 10.(which is by the way a FACT )

https://www.ft.com/content/e9f3b8b8-1c6 ... db76e69936

Paywalled. Please quote paragraph 10. Otherwise it's a fluff piece about a car being made in the UK because the manufacturer had already committed substantial capital to retool a factory before a certain referendum...

Not a FACT then? or is it a brexit FACT that doesn't count.

I don't know, because it's paywalled. If you're stalling on quoting it, then it's probably not as much of a fact as some might want it to be, but hey ho, we'll never know.

[NEWPORT SADDLERS DAD]

Here is an interesting article from the FT for remainers to ignore especially paragraph 10.(which is by the way a FACT )

https://www.ft.com/content/e9f3b8b8-1c6 ... db76e69936

Paywalled. Please quote paragraph 10. Otherwise it's a fluff piece about a car being made in the UK because the manufacturer had already committed substantial capital to retool a factory before a certain referendum...

Not a FACT then? or is it a brexit FACT that doesn't count.

I don't know, because it's paywalled. If you're stalling on quoting it, then it's probably not as much of a fact as some might want it to be, but hey ho, we'll never know.

Sorry, here it is.

Toyota will build the next version of its Auris car in its Derbyshire plant in spite of threats to disruption from Britain leaving the European Union, the latest UK facility to win fresh work since the vote.

The Japanese car maker will also use a higher proportion of engines from its Welsh Deeside plant in the next version of the hatchback car, it said on Wednesday.

The move follows an investment of £240m to re-tool the Burnaston facility with equipment allowing it to build the next generation of Toyota vehicles.

Business secretary Greg Clark called the decision a “testament to the highly-skilled and committed workforce that helps make the UK’s automotive sector one of the most productive in the world”.

The government has pledged to do all it can to support the sector’s competetiveness after Brexit, and has pledged to invest up to £21.3m in Toyota’s re-tooling project.

The UK’s car industry has warned of the possible impact of Brexit on manufacturers, from the disruption of its largely-European supply chain to potential tariffs on exports.

Investment across the sector has halved in the two years since the ballot was announced, falling to £1.1bn in 2017 from £1.7bn in 2016 and £2.5bn in 2015, as car makers and their suppliers delay all-but the most essential spending decisions.

Every time carmakers launch a new or refreshed model, their plants across the world compete for the work.

Manufacturers have warned that anything that makes UK plants less competitive lessens their changes of winning future models.

Yet every major model decision taken by car makers since the vote in June 2016 has seen British plants continue to win more work.

In November 2016 Nissan announced plans to build a new generation of Qashqai and X-Trail sports utility vehicles at its Sunderland site, while BMW has opted to assemble the all-electric Mini at its Oxford plant, albeit using German batteries.

Last year, Toyota said it would spend £240m installing new equipment in the site, a move required of all its global plants by the Japanese car maker in order to prepare them for the company’s new vehicle architecture system.

Wednesday’s decision to build the new Auris at the site, which already makes the current generation of the car, will require very limited additional spending. The majority of engines for the new model will be sourced from the company’s Deeside factory in north Wales, a site that already provides some engines for the UK assembly plant.

The decision will help to secure 3,000 jobs across the two sites, Toyota said. The two plants have produced 4m cars and 5m engines over the last 25 years.

Around three quarters of cars made are exported to the EU, while the company also relies on Europe for part of its supply chain.

Secretary of State for Wales Alun Cairns said: “Toyota’s commitment to the UK is an enormous economic boost for Deeside and Wales as a whole. Toyota has played a crucial role in helping to demonstrate why Wales continues to be a prime location to invest and do business through its anchor status on Deeside.”

[SaigonSaddler]

What was the date of this revelation?

Is it before or after the Japanese ambassador's Brexit warning?

Japan sees Brexit as an act of economic and political self-harm that will reduce the United Kingdom’s influence on the world stage, a warning from Japan’s ambassador to the UK after meeting with Theresa May last week that Japanese firms could continue operations there only if they remained profitable.
Many Japanese companies using the UK as their European base had been attracted to invest in the country because EU membership provided tariff-free trade and regulatory alignment with Britain’s largest market.

Does the Japanese Ambassador count as an expert? I'm asking because he's the specific representative of Japan.

Where do Toyota and Nissan hail from again? Oh ... :|

[SaigonSaddler]

This is the 25th consecutive page on this topic where the Brexiteer appeals and musings have disintegrated into a pile of ash.

[NEWPORT SADDLERS DAD]

This is the 25th consecutive page on this topic where the Brexiteer appeals and musings have disintegrated into a pile of ash.

28th February .This isn't a pile of ash it's one of those fact things.


Yet every major model decision taken by car makers since the vote in June 2016 has seen British plants continue to win more work.

[SaigonSaddler]

This is the 25th consecutive page on this topic where the Brexiteer appeals and musings have disintegrated into a pile of ash.

28th February .This isn't a pile of ash it's one of those fact things.


Yet every major model decision taken by car makers since the vote in June 2016 has seen British plants continue to win more work.

Oh, I see. So it's just pretended the Japanese Ambassador didn't say anything. OK.

Sounds legit.

[NEWPORT SADDLERS DAD]

The Japanese have always been canny at seeing the future as they took over the motorcycle industry and later car industry.

They can see that the futures bright the futures brexit.

[SaigonSaddler]

The Japanese have always been canny at seeing the future as they took over the motorcycle industry and later car industry.

They can see that the futures bright the futures brexit.

Except that is the exact opposite of what they've just said.

[SaigonSaddler]

In other news ... May preparing the ground to renage on her much vaunted EU red lines.

Strong and stable.

[NEWPORT SADDLERS DAD]

The problem with remainers is that they look for and thrive on what could be bad news for their own country.