Brexit Breakfast

[reedswood sadler]

We are now on page 17 of this thread with the same things being repeated over and over again, it could be all condensed to 2 pages of discussion if the main posters stopped just repeating same thing nobody on either side is going to change their mind.
The only FACT about what will happen after Brexit is nobody knows as Manchester keeps saying we have not left yet until then it is all predictions and opinions from both sides none that can be proved until they happen.

[Manchester Saddler]

We are now on page 17 of this thread with the same things being repeated over and over again, it could be all condensed to 2 pages of discussion if the main posters stopped just repeating same thing nobody on either side is going to change their mind.
The only FACT about what will happen after Brexit is nobody knows as Manchester keeps saying we have not left yet until then it is all predictions and opinions from both sides none that can be proved until they happen.

You are correct - but the reason I keep repeating myself is that there are reams of evidence to support my argument and not one Brexiteer has given me a positive for Brexit.

It will keep on with this cycle (from my perspective) until at least one Brexiteer tells me why brexit is a good thing with evidence to support his or her argument.

There is a lot of "you are wrong Manchester" but no reasons why, no alternative reasons and absolutely no positives about Brexit.

I guess the same can be said about the stance of Uber-Brexiteers like Farage, Rees-Mogg etc.

This will go on and on either until I am proved wrong (extremely unlikely given the facts) or am proved correct and the shitstorm erupts.

Or Brexit is stopped.

Believe me, if the UK economy crumbles post-Brexit (should Brexit happen) I for one won't enjoy posting "I told you so" at all.

All this goes to prove is that the country is totally divided on the subject even 20 months after Cameron put party politics before the good of the country.

[SaigonSaddler]

We are now on page 17 of this thread with the same things being repeated over and over again, it could be all condensed to 2 pages of discussion if the main posters stopped just repeating same thing nobody on either side is going to change their mind.
The only FACT about what will happen after Brexit is nobody knows as Manchester keeps saying we have not left yet until then it is all predictions and opinions from both sides none that can be proved until they happen.

You are correct

He's not correct, we're on page 18.

:D :wink:

I hope The Swampster doesn't post anything about June 2016, because I think one more reference to it and I'll definitely be swayed by the sheer intellectual weight of that argument. Just saying.

:mrgreen:

[chunkster]

Just to add something, it is stated that people knew what they were voting for. People were asked on TV from South Yorkshire, South Wales Cornwall (all areas which voted to leave) what they knew about the EU. There answers were the same from all 3 areas what has the EU done for us. The EU poured millions into the UK and these areas under the European Structural and Investment Funds which helped with the re-generation of the Coalfields amongst other areas. Millions under the European Social Fund were spent on re-training people throughout the UK with millions more in these 3 areas under Objective 1 funding. They had`nt a clue what the EU has done in the UK because each € did`nt come stamped "from the EU". Just 1 example of people knowing "all the facts" before voting.

In 2016 the UK government paid £13.1 billion to the EU budget, and EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4.5 billion.

Lets do our own re-generation.

Reality Check:

That is not quite true, NSD.

The figures I saw were that we give £18.9 billion to the EU - a figure that is far more than the £13.1 billion. :shock:

However,we get a rebate of £4.2 billion (as negotiated by the Blue Witch) PLUS £5.6 billion EU funded public and private sector credits, leaving a total of £8.1 billion net contribution.

Putting that into perspective, the government spends £814 billion pounds annually - i.e. we spend about 1% to be members of the EU.

For that, we get full access to the customs union, single market and everything else EU membership gives us, contributing to a stronger economy and bigger growth forecasts.

According to the leaked report:

In north-east England growth would be 3% lower if the UK stayed in the single market, 11% under a trade deal and 16% with no trade deal compared with staying in the EU.

The research suggests London - which backed Remain - would fare the best, with reductions of 1%, 2% and 2.5% in each of the three scenarios.

Scotland's estimated hit would be 2.5%, 6% and 9%. Wales would see reductions of 1.5%, 5.5% and 9.5%.

I don't think we will be able to afford our own regeneration - do you?

Sounds a bit like being on an All Inclusive holiday but you don't drink :lol: i rather prefer a self catering one where you get what you pay for and it's your own choice :mrgreen:

That must be a wind up!

:D

I do like dropping the odd nugget in there :wink:

[Manchester Saddler]

More good news Brexiteers?

https://news.sky.com/story/japanese-amb ... s-11241558

[SaigonSaddler]

More good news Brexiteers?

https://news.sky.com/story/japanese-amb ... s-11241558

Don't they know about June 2016?

:mrgreen:

[swampysaddler]

We are now on page 17 of this thread with the same things being repeated over and over again, it could be all condensed to 2 pages of discussion if the main posters stopped just repeating same thing nobody on either side is going to change their mind.
The only FACT about what will happen after Brexit is nobody knows as Manchester keeps saying we have not left yet until then it is all predictions and opinions from both sides none that can be proved until they happen.

You are correct

He's not correct, we're on page 18.

:D :wink:

I hope The Swampster doesn't post anything about June 2016, because I think one more reference to it and I'll definitely be swayed by the sheer intellectual weight of that argument. Just saying.

:mrgreen:

What happened June 2016 ? I can't remember. :mrgreen:

[chunkster]

Watched question time tonight, and Richard Tice was absolutely spot on in his assessment of brexit, so manc and saigon, anymore questions about reasons for leaving, can you direct them to him please? :mrgreen: because he got ovations for every sentence :D and terry christian is a twerp and got boooooed :mrgreen I fully expect some posters to come back and say that Richard is a past child killer and terry is a puppy lover :lol:

[SaigonSaddler]

Watched question time tonight, and Richard Tice was absolutely spot on in his assessment of brexit, so manc and saigon, anymore questions about reasons for leaving, can you direct them to him please? :mrgreen: because he got ovations for every sentence :D and terry christian is a twerp and got boooooed :mrgreen I fully expect some posters to come back and say that Richard is a past child killer and terry is a puppy lover :lol:

I've just watched it as well. Think you saw the June 2016 version mate.

:mrgreen:

[chunkster]

Watched question time tonight, and Richard Tice was absolutely spot on in his assessment of brexit, so manc and saigon, anymore questions about reasons for leaving, can you direct them to him please? :mrgreen: because he got ovations for every sentence :D and terry christian is a twerp and got boooooed :mrgreen I fully expect some posters to come back and say that Richard is a past child killer and terry is a puppy lover :lol:

I've just watched it as well. Think you saw the June 2016 version mate.

:mrgreen:

:lol: :wink:

[swampysaddler]

Was going to watch QT till I saw the guests on the show.
If that is the calibre of guests that BBC have sunk to, that are meant to be knowledgeable on the subjects being discussed not just a gobshite "eh arrrrrrr", then god help them.
Who made Terry Christian a Political expert all of a sudden ?
Terry, I can shout louder than you because I am an obnoxious gobshite from Manchester, Christian jesus wept :!: :!:
All he is, and will ever be, known for is being a gobshite DJ who presented a Channel 4 show late on a Friday night for the piss heads to slump in front of when they got home (myself included).

[Manchester Saddler]

Watched question time tonight, and Richard Tice was absolutely spot on in his assessment of brexit, so manc and saigon, anymore questions about reasons for leaving, can you direct them to him please? :mrgreen: because he got ovations for every sentence :D and terry christian is a twerp and got boooooed :mrgreen I fully expect some posters to come back and say that Richard is a past child killer and terry is a puppy lover :lol:

I agree that Terry Christian is a twerp. :D

But, please, if Richard Tice was spot on with his assessment of Brexit, share what his thoughts were that managed to get an ovation.

If he actually came up with a positive for Brexit then he's doing a lot better than the paltry efforts of UTS Brexiteers. :D :wink:

I'm all ears.

[chestersaddler]

QT used to be a decent watch before the referendum. Now it is just tribal like two sets of rival supporters at a local derby. People only listening to what they already agree with and applauding the panelists who are on "their" side.

[Manchester Saddler]

Was going to watch QT till I saw the guests on the show.
If that is the calibre of guests that BBC have sunk to, that are meant to be knowledgeable on the subjects being discussed not just a gobshite "eh arrrrrrr", then god help them.
Who made Terry Christian a Political expert all of a sudden ?
Terry, I can shout louder than you because I am an obnoxious gobshite from Manchester, Christian jesus wept :!: :!:
All he is, and will ever be, known for is being a gobshite DJ who presented a Channel 4 show late on a Friday night for the piss heads to slump in front of when they got home (myself included).

Everyone's got an opinion so everyone is entitled to voice it.

I agree that Terry Christian is a complete knob - I never liked him when he did "The Word". I was delighted when he slowly vanished from my telly box and took up the perfect role for him (an obnoxious loud-mouthed DJ). If you listen to his accent - it is kind of forced to emphasise that he is a Mancunian but a lot of Mancunians hate him (he supports Manchester United - say no more).

So we agree on something Swampy Lad!! :D

Having said that though, I started wondering what happened to Question Time the first time they invited Nigel Farage onto the panel And then Nick Griffin.

One of the problems I have with the show is that all the politicians just use it as a party political broadcast for their parties. They rarely answer the questions truthfully, choosing instead to add political spin to their answer, rather than giving their honest opinions.

Personally, I would prefer it if the panel were treated as witnesses in a trial where they had to swear an oath before answering the question so that they had to tell the truth.

Mind you, even that would probably not stop them lying (Jeffrey Archer anyone)?

Back on topic.

Can any Brexiteer give me a positive for Brexit?

If Richard Tice's performance on QT helps, rather than you having to scratch around for evidence yourself, then I welcome you quoting his views.

Just bear in mind that we are now 18 pages into this thread and I have heard nothing.

Also bear in mind that I am well-known for my patience so even if this thread reaches 118 pages I will wait.

:D

[Manchester Saddler]

QT used to be a decent watch before the referendum. Now it is just tribal like two sets of rival supporters at a local derby. People only listening to what they already agree with and applauding the panelists who are on "their" side.

I rarely watch it these days for that and the reasons I mentioned above.

I am sure that Chunkster didn't notice those who applauded views that were contrary to his own. And he probably thinks "Terry Christian's a knob so I'll ignore everything he says!" - actually I kind of feel like that too if I'm totally honest.

:D :wink:

[SaigonSaddler]

More good news Brexiteers?

https://news.sky.com/story/japanese-amb ... s-11241558

Japan's ambassador has warned the Prime Minister of the "high stakes" of Brexit following talks in Downing Street.
Koji Tsuruoka, speaking outside Number 10, claimed international companies could close their operations in Britain if there is "no profitability" in staying.

Above and beyond the rhetoric, this can't be good for the country surely?

The Japanese have invested massively over decades and such statements are not made by the Japanese lightly. They take business incredibly seriously and need a base with an EU customs union. If that's not us, they will relocate somewhere else.

However optimistic the most nailed on Brexiteer, replacing such investment would be a gargantuan undertaking and the process would take a decade or more to properly bear fruit, even assuming success. It would cause massive damage to the economy and especially to the local area where these investments have been made.

Tangible, palpable, and imminent consequences of the vote.

[Morty]

we all know how our lovely tabloid media cant resist the opportunity for some xenophobic guff - which surely can't help the debate, and possibly/probably influenced people's voting.

So as an example of this here's the same story from 2 different websites:-

http://www.dw.com/en/european-parliament-votes-for-review-of-daylight-saving-time/a-42510308

"The EU assembly has called for a review of the twice-yearly hour changes across the bloc. A Finnish citizens' petition and health concerns have led to the move.
European Parliament members voted 384 to 153 in a non-binding resolution on Thursday to urge the European Commission to carry out a "thorough assessment" of the daylight saving time (DST) arrangements for summer time and, if necessary "come up with a proposal for its revision."

"Numerous studies have failed to reach a conclusive outcome, but indicate negative effects on human health," the members of European Parliament wrote in their proposal."

And from our friends at the (Daily?) Express:-

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/916278/European-Union-news-Italy-British-Summer-Time-Daylight-Savings-Times-CET-GMT-EU-UK-Brexit

"Brussels considers changing BST to 'BERLIN TIME' in Britain even AFTER Brexit

THE European Union has been branded "ridiculous" after Brussels voted to consider scrapping British Summer Time and pushing the UK to accept 'Berlin time'.

Theresa May’s Government would be able to block the move through the European Council up until March 2019, but ‘Berlin time’ could be imposed on Britain unchallenged during the proposed transition period."

:roll:

[aaaae]

Can any Brexiteer give me a positive for Brexit?

The value of the pound fell, boosting our exports, manufacturing and tourism -

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -uk-august
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ing-brexit

All lovely and positive for a Friday.

[aaaae]

Japan's ambassador has warned the Prime Minister of the "high stakes" of Brexit following talks in Downing Street.
Koji Tsuruoka, speaking outside Number 10, claimed international companies could close their operations in Britain if there is "no profitability" in staying.

Above and beyond the rhetoric, this can't be good for the country surely?

The Japanese have invested massively over decades and such statements are not made by the Japanese lightly. They take business incredibly seriously and need a base with an EU customs union. If that's not us, they will relocate somewhere else.

However optimistic the most nailed on Brexiteer, replacing such investment would be a gargantuan undertaking and the process would take a decade or more to properly bear fruit, even assuming success. It would cause massive damage to the economy and especially to the local area where these investments have been made.

Tangible, palpable, and imminent consequences of the vote.

And would any company keep operations running if there was "no profitability"? You're posting the bleeding obvious.

Fortunately, the cost of paying British workers has fallen by 10%-15% with the fall in the value of the pound, so I dare say the Japanese parent companies are delighted.

[aaaae]

That was it yes, the fact that we were having the warmest year on record was somehow irrelevant, because - look, snow.

Oh how we laughed. :D

And yet still cooler than the Roman and Mediaeval warm periods. Natural warming since the end of the 17th century. Come on in, the water's loverly.

[SaigonSaddler]

That was it yes, the fact that we were having the warmest year on record was somehow irrelevant, because - look, snow.

Oh how we laughed. :D

And yet still cooler than the Roman and Mediaeval warm periods. Natural warming since the end of the 17th century. Come on in, the water's loverly.

'Natural warming' Yeah ok. :D

The water's really nice and warm.

[SaigonSaddler]

Japan's ambassador has warned the Prime Minister of the "high stakes" of Brexit following talks in Downing Street.
Koji Tsuruoka, speaking outside Number 10, claimed international companies could close their operations in Britain if there is "no profitability" in staying.

Above and beyond the rhetoric, this can't be good for the country surely?

The Japanese have invested massively over decades and such statements are not made by the Japanese lightly. They take business incredibly seriously and need a base with an EU customs union. If that's not us, they will relocate somewhere else.

However optimistic the most nailed on Brexiteer, replacing such investment would be a gargantuan undertaking and the process would take a decade or more to properly bear fruit, even assuming success. It would cause massive damage to the economy and especially to the local area where these investments have been made.

Tangible, palpable, and imminent consequences of the vote.

And would any company keep operations running if there was "no profitability"? You're posting the bleeding obvious.

I'm posting the comments of Japanese industry, who are basically raising the possibility of buggering off elsewhere. Apparently that's so bleeding obvious it doesn't count in the equation. Any idea as to why they're saying it now? Anything that might be in the pipeline to stir them into this comment? No?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

If it's that obvious, why wasn't THAT slapped on the side of a bus instead of the utter crap you obviously fell for? :mrgreen:

[Manchester Saddler]

Is this a typical Brexiteer?

Warning - contains swearing.

https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2018/02/08/teabagger/

:lol:

[Manchester Saddler]

Can any Brexiteer give me a positive for Brexit?

The value of the pound fell, boosting our exports, manufacturing and tourism -

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -uk-august
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ing-brexit

All lovely and positive for a Friday.

Explain to me why either of these are positives.

To be this into perspective:

(1) The pound has crashed and will crash further so it will be much more expensive to go abroad. People will go on "staycations" in rainy cold old Blighty because the thought of a terrible exchange rate will stop all but the well off from going abroad. But I guess that's okay for those Brexiteers who are xenophobes.

(2) Heeding the warning of the Japanese ambassador - a lower pound means lower profit and they will pull out (as they have hinted strongly at). Manufacturing (what's left of it) will fall as a result.

By "positives" I think you mean "false positives" don't you?

[Morty]

Can any Brexiteer give me a positive for Brexit?

The value of the pound fell, boosting our exports, manufacturing and tourism -

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -uk-august
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ing-brexit

All lovely and positive for a Friday.

Explain to me why either of these are positives.

To be this into perspective:

(1) The pound has crashed and will crash further so it will be much more expensive to go abroad. People will go on "staycations" in rainy cold old Blighty because the thought of a terrible exchange rate will stop all but the well off from going abroad. But I guess that's okay for those Brexiteers who are xenophobes.

Now apologies if I've got this wrong, but if a falling pound = stronger exports then doesn't conversely mean more expensive imports?? :?:

So all those lovely South Korean & Japanese smart phones, TVs, cars, etc become more expensive???

[SaigonSaddler]

Can any Brexiteer give me a positive for Brexit?

The value of the pound fell, boosting our exports, manufacturing and tourism -

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -uk-august
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ing-brexit

All lovely and positive for a Friday.

Explain to me why either of these are positives.

To be this into perspective:

(1) The pound has crashed and will crash further so it will be much more expensive to go abroad. People will go on "staycations" in rainy cold old Blighty because the thought of a terrible exchange rate will stop all but the well off from going abroad. But I guess that's okay for those Brexiteers who are xenophobes.

Now apologies if I've got this wrong, but if a falling pound = stronger exports then doesn't conversely mean more expensive imports?? :?:

So all those lovely South Korean & Japanese smart phones, TVs, cars, etc become more expensive???

But you're not supposed to raise this as it's talking the country down, which is the bastardisation of project fear apparently.

Also the position taken by Japanese industry doesn't count cos 'it's bleeding obvious', which ranks right up there as a proper Brexit quote.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

The future's bright Morty, just put the blinkers on and plough ahead. Don't overthink anything as experts are 'normally wrong'.

Flipping epic levels of thick. :wink:

[Manchester Saddler]

Can any Brexiteer give me a positive for Brexit?

The value of the pound fell, boosting our exports, manufacturing and tourism -

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -uk-august
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ing-brexit

All lovely and positive for a Friday.

Explain to me why either of these are positives.

To be this into perspective:

(1) The pound has crashed and will crash further so it will be much more expensive to go abroad. People will go on "staycations" in rainy cold old Blighty because the thought of a terrible exchange rate will stop all but the well off from going abroad. But I guess that's okay for those Brexiteers who are xenophobes.

Now apologies if I've got this wrong, but if a falling pound = stronger exports then doesn't conversely mean more expensive imports?? :?:

So all those lovely South Korean & Japanese smart phones, TVs, cars, etc become more expensive???

Yep! Hence the phrase "false positive!"

Can we have a REAL positive please Brexiteers?

Just one?

Watching the news about Brexit and the shambolic catastrophe that is the negotiations, I feel more and more depressed.

David Davies "surprised" that pulling out of the customs union and single market will make border checks between NI and the Republic of Ireland unavoidable?

FFS - I think my cat could do a better job!

[SaigonSaddler]

Drilling down through increasingly rich levels of absurdity.

We'll be paying for the lack of even the most basic preparations and associated mistakes for decades to come.

[Wragbyred]

Believe me, if the UK economy crumbles post-Brexit (should Brexit happen) I for one won't enjoy posting "I told you so" at all

Come on Manchester, surely you can be more pessimistic and negative than that!
Don’t you mean “when”?

[Manchester Saddler]

Believe me, if the UK economy crumbles post-Brexit (should Brexit happen) I for one won't enjoy posting "I told you so" at all

Come on Manchester, surely you can be more pessimistic and negative than that!
Don’t you mean “when”?

The optimist in me hopes that Brexit will be reversed.

:D