Brexit Breakfast

[Manchester Saddler]

Oh dear! BREXIT now means BRINO ....

WTF?

I know this is something from the mind of Jacob Rees-Mogg, arguably the most out of touch man in the Tory party.

He basically postulates that we the people voted for complete and utter disconnection from the EU and I don't remember seeing that or indeed anything CLOSE to it on the ballot paper.

Did anybody see any options whatsoever other than stay or leave?

Did anyone see any caveats?

These hard-line Brexiteers are suggesting something that we simply didn't vote for - not by any stretch of the imaginuation.

Jacob Rees-Mogg and others like him are welcome to their opinions but stop, for God's sake, lying about what we voted for in order to force a hardline Brexit that will fork the UK in a way that is even worse than the catastrophe we are already stumbling towards.

JRM is gathering quite a groundswell of support across all of the demographics and quite right too he's saying it exactly how it is

He's saying it how HE wants it to be.

The kind of Brexit he wants wasn't an option.

Am I wrong?

[Cowshed]

Oh dear! BREXIT now means BRINO ....

WTF?

I know this is something from the mind of Jacob Rees-Mogg, arguably the most out of touch man in the Tory party.

He basically postulates that we the people voted for complete and utter disconnection from the EU and I don't remember seeing that or indeed anything CLOSE to it on the ballot paper.

Did anybody see any options whatsoever other than stay or leave?

Did anyone see any caveats?

These hard-line Brexiteers are suggesting something that we simply didn't vote for - not by any stretch of the imaginuation.

Jacob Rees-Mogg and others like him are welcome to their opinions but stop, for God's sake, lying about what we voted for in order to force a hardline Brexit that will fork the UK in a way that is even worse than the catastrophe we are already stumbling towards.

JRM is gathering quite a groundswell of support across all of the demographics and quite right too he's saying it exactly how it is

He's saying it how HE wants it to be.

The kind of Brexit he wants wasn't an option.

Am I wrong?

Options were stay or leave

If the decision had been stay then it's as you were

As it was leave then we should leave not stay on different terms

Everyone knows what they were voting for

What needs to happen is May to be removed IMMEDIATELY

The successor who I believe will definitely be an hard line brexit supporter needs to call a general election

If conservatives win we go hard brexit

The time is now for this decisive leadership and to stop the messing around

[SaigonSaddler]

The world according to Cowshed ... err, no thanks. :lol: :lol: :lol:

A massive part of the leave argument was DEMOCRACY!

Now as democracy is working precisely as it should, it's not good enough for you.

A hard brexit looks further away than ever, and it's looking like entirely as we were, paying a great deal and with NO SAY in the EU.

Well played Wrexiteers! :roll:

[Manchester Saddler]

Options were stay or leave

If the decision had been stay then it's as you were

As it was leave then we should leave not stay on different terms

Everyone knows what they were voting for

What needs to happen is May to be removed IMMEDIATELY

The successor who I believe will definitely be an hard line brexit supporter needs to call a general election

If conservatives win we go hard brexit

The time is now for this decisive leadership and to stop the messing around

That's where you are wrong. Very few brexiteers knew what they were voting for and I know numerous people who have changed their minds.

Of those who voted for Brexit - there was no choice between a HARD Brexit and a Soft Brexit. So no - they did NOT know what they were voting for.

Why do you want Theresa May removed exactly? I presume you would want a hard-line Brexiteer in her place. Now THAT would go down well in a General Election given that a lot of folks have changed their minds. Look at the evidence - why do you think Theresa May lost her majority? It's because she called the election to INCREASE her majority and force through a crap Brexit.

Look where THAT got her.

Don't forget, most MPs are Remainers and given the way the last election went - not even a hard-liner could get a No Deal Brexit through parliament, let alone the UNELECTED Lords.

The Tories are totally divided about this and it doesn't matter who the leader is and what form of Brexit he or she desires, they will STILL remain divided - and just start bashing the new leader (from the Remain/Soft Brexit side).

The only decision is to overturn Brexit via another referendum.

It's been over 18 months now - plenty of time for the electorate to see what Brexit REALLY means - AND CHANGE THEIR MINDS!!

[Manchester Saddler]

The world according to Cowshed ... err, no thanks. :lol: :lol: :lol:

A massive part of the leave argument was DEMOCRACY!

Now as democracy is working precisely as it should, it's not good enough for you.

A hard brexit looks further away than ever, and it's looking like entirely as we were, paying a great deal and with NO SAY in the EU.

Well played Wrexiteers! :roll:

Yes - a further two years of being subjected to EU regulations, unable to influence them this time and also with no change in freedom of movement.

Well done Brexiteers.

What a total fork up.

And they thought we would be better off.

:lol:

[Cowshed]

It starts with a vote of no confidence

Mp duly lobbied :D

[Cowshed]

Options were stay or leave

If the decision had been stay then it's as you were

As it was leave then we should leave not stay on different terms

Everyone knows what they were voting for

What needs to happen is May to be removed IMMEDIATELY

The successor who I believe will definitely be an hard line brexit supporter needs to call a general election

If conservatives win we go hard brexit

The time is now for this decisive leadership and to stop the messing around

That's where you are wrong. Very few brexiteers knew what they were voting for and I know numerous people who have changed their minds.

Of those who voted for Brexit - there was no choice between a HARD Brexit and a Soft Brexit. So no - they did NOT know what they were voting for.

Why do you want Theresa May removed exactly? I presume you would want a hard-line Brexiteer in her place. Now THAT would go down well in a General Election given that a lot of folks have changed their minds. Look at the evidence - why do you think Theresa May lost her majority? It's because she called the election to INCREASE her majority and force through a crap Brexit.

Look where THAT got her.

Don't forget, most MPs are Remainers and given the way the last election went - not even a hard-liner could get a No Deal Brexit through parliament, let alone the UNELECTED Lords.

The Tories are totally divided about this and it doesn't matter who the leader is and what form of Brexit he or she desires, they will STILL remain divided - and just start bashing the new leader (from the Remain/Soft Brexit side).

The only decision is to overturn Brexit via another referendum.

It's been over 18 months now - plenty of time for the electorate to see what Brexit REALLY means - AND CHANGE THEIR MINDS!!

I think we would need to see if many have changed their minds through a general election with a Tory leadership who have set out their stall in terms of out means out

In a general election the MPs who vote against hard brexit will need to test how their elecorate feel about them blocking an hard brexit

[Guest]

"Some Brexit supporters will have to live with disappointment" (Liam Fox)

[Manchester Saddler]

I think we would need to see if many have changed their minds through a general election with a Tory leadership who have set out their stall in terms of out means out

In a general election the MPs who vote against hard brexit will need to test how their elecorate feel about them blocking an hard brexit

No - a referendum.

If you are so confident then why not? After all, surely people are now realising Brexit is a GOOD thing aren't they? According to most Brexiteers anyway.

Yet there is NO EVIDENCE of this.

On the other hand - a leaked GOVERNMENT report (this is a TORY report) indicates that ANY Brexit deal will hit the UK economy.

Do you really think that any government will want to go for the worst kind of deal after that?

The ONLY way is to take it back to the nation with a referendum.

"... growth over the next 15 years could be up to 8% lower than if the UK stayed in the EU."

And for three years of that we would not have a say in EU regulations!

Lemmings heading towards a cliff ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42867668

[SaigonSaddler]

But Manc, we are entering a zone where some plonkers are demanding a hard Brexit because.

Because what?

Cos.

And that's all you'll get out of them. There's plenty of evidence on this thread for the sheer lack of ... well any kind of cogent leave argument.
What was it? PC gone mad. Immagrunts. We want our passports back. Apparently there was a vote that carefully and deliberately displayed precisely what kind of exit was being voted for. Nope, I didn't see it either.

Passport covers are 19 pence at the post office.

:!:

[shrewsbury saddler]

It's a bit rich them being specific about what people voted for, when, during the referendum, a leave vote meant whatever was convenient at the time. One day it was a complete break with the US and China coming cap in hand for a trade deal. Then, when that proved to be a bit silly, they offered all the benefits of the free market without the drawbacks. Then when it was suggested the EU might want something in return, we had vague mutterings of agreeing immigration quotas, without any suggestion of why the EU would want to give up the principle of free movement. I think they thought that Good Old Blighty would run rings round Johnny Foreigner in any negotiations once freed from the yoke of Brussels.

[Cowshed]

I think we would need to see if many have changed their minds through a general election with a Tory leadership who have set out their stall in terms of out means out

In a general election the MPs who vote against hard brexit will need to test how their elecorate feel about them blocking an hard brexit

No - a referendum.

If you are so confident then why not? After all, surely people are now realising Brexit is a GOOD thing aren't they? According to most Brexiteers anyway.

Yet there is NO EVIDENCE of this.

On the other hand - a leaked GOVERNMENT report (this is a TORY report) indicates that ANY Brexit deal will hit the UK economy.

Do you really think that any government will want to go for the worst kind of deal after that?

The ONLY way is to take it back to the nation with a referendum.

"... growth over the next 15 years could be up to 8% lower than if the UK stayed in the EU."

And for three years of that we would not have a say in EU regulations!

Lemmings heading towards a cliff ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42867668

No a General election

Brexit or not

Corbyn or not

needs to be decided so that we can move forward either way.

the remainer mps need to put their seats on the line if they want to block an hard brexit

especially the labour mps in the Northern heartlands

David Winnick did it

[SaigonSaddler]

No a General election
Brexit or not
Corbyn or not
needs to be decided so that we can move forward either way.
the remainer mps need to put their seats on the line if they want to block an hard brexit
especially the labour mps in the Northern heartlands
David Winnick did it

The reality of what Brexit actually entails will be decided by a few people who people voted in for very different reasons. As I've suggested pragmatism will win, and this doesn't include a hard brexit, or anything like it.

We'll basically be Norway, expensively buying into the EU on almost identical terms with NO SAY in how it's run.

Hard brexit basically died on it's arse when Europe said we couldn't have access without free movement. How's that for putting Europe in it's place?

That's what happens when the hubris of one man with an ambition to pull his party into line overrides the good of the country.

Suck it up snowflakes! :oops: :oops: :oops:

[scott_powell]

So Saigon, what is your solution to ISIS inspired terrorists murdering innocent children at a concert? Why should they be kept in comfort at our expense?
The Americans have one of the best solutions, keeping them at arms length in a god forsaken outback, but are ridiculed by the PC mad world that we sadly have to live in for being too cruel, ah didums.

[post moderated - hate speech]

Whilst I do think we need to be firmer with ALL terrorists I also think going down the American route would be disastrous. What about that white fella who drove into a load of innocent Muslim folk in Finsbury Park? Do you think he should receive the same punishment as ISIS inspired terrorists? Or is that just "revenge".

Moderated for hate speech? What an absolute joke. Ever heard of context or do you take everything literally Mods? Get off your high horses.

Not a single complaint after my post kinda proves it wasn't hate speech.

[Manchester Saddler]

No a General election

Brexit or not

Corbyn or not

needs to be decided so that we can move forward either way.

the remainer mps need to put their seats on the line if they want to block an hard brexit

especially the labour mps in the Northern heartlands

David Winnick did it

No a referendum.

Both Labour and the Tories are split over Europe - this is not a left/right thing. A General Election will give us more of the same no matter who wins.

Also, I take it you didn't read the news item?

Burying your head in the sand won't solve our problems.

[Guest]

The turkeys that voted for Christmas.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/m ... s-14220340

[Cowshed]

No a General election

Brexit or not

Corbyn or not

needs to be decided so that we can move forward either way.

the remainer mps need to put their seats on the line if they want to block an hard brexit

especially the labour mps in the Northern heartlands

David Winnick did it

No a referendum.

Both Labour and the Tories are split over Europe - this is not a left/right thing. A General Election will give us more of the same no matter who wins.

Also, I take it you didn't read the news item?

Burying your head in the sand won't solve our problems.

a leak!!! what a disaster!!!! how could this happen???

not sure what your thoughts are on Stochastic modelling Manchester but leave or remain if anyone can guarantee me growth at all over the next 15 years I would snap their hands off. Now tell me Manchester can you guarantee me that these forecasts will happen. the answer should be yes or no.

[swampysaddler]

I think we would need to see if many have changed their minds through a general election with a Tory leadership who have set out their stall in terms of out means out

In a general election the MPs who vote against hard brexit will need to test how their elecorate feel about them blocking an hard brexit

No - a referendum.

If you are so confident then why not? After all, surely people are now realising Brexit is a GOOD thing aren't they? According to most Brexiteers anyway.

Yet there is NO EVIDENCE of this.

On the other hand - a leaked GOVERNMENT report (this is a TORY report) indicates that ANY Brexit deal will hit the UK economy.

Do you really think that any government will want to go for the worst kind of deal after that?

The ONLY way is to take it back to the nation with a referendum.

"... growth over the next 15 years could be up to 8% lower than if the UK stayed in the EU."

And for three years of that we would not have a say in EU regulations!

Lemmings heading towards a cliff ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42867668

Predictions again. They couldn't forecast last years so what chance have we with them being right in 15 years ?
As for predictions just read this and then tell me all these so called experts and predictors are always right.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/brit ... ysis-shows

Just the paragraph says it all really............ "This analysis shows that such a decision would cause an immediate and profound economic shock across the country, creating instability and uncertainty which would be made worse by the complex negotiations that would follow to agree the terms of Britain’s exit from the EU and its new relationship with the rest of Europe".
I think the term is "they don't know what they are doing".
See Mr Self Righteous MS, the only person in the whole country who knew what he was voting for, I do research as you preach. But due to it not being to your liking it will be ignored.

[SaigonSaddler]

Loving the 'experts wadda they know anyway' reprise.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

This is the best leave argument now? Hoping that the combined weight of, what is it 8 major trusted economic institutions, (CBI - heard of them?) have somehow, all got it wrong on stating that Brexit is and will have a negative impact on the British economy?

I await the usual deluded conspiracy claims to be wheeled out for this singular instance, before the normal grasp at the odd positive cherry renders them the last word in certainty for that singular instance.

Pa - fecking - thetic.

What's it like to be proven WRONG again and again snowflakes??? :wink:

[Cowshed]

No a General election
Brexit or not
Corbyn or not
needs to be decided so that we can move forward either way.
the remainer mps need to put their seats on the line if they want to block an hard brexit
especially the labour mps in the Northern heartlands
David Winnick did it

The reality of what Brexit actually entails will be decided by a few people who people voted in for very different reasons. As I've suggested pragmatism will win, and this doesn't include a hard brexit, or anything like it.

We'll basically be Norway, expensively buying into the EU on almost identical terms with NO SAY in how it's run.

Hard brexit basically died on it's arse when Europe said we couldn't have access without free movement. How's that for putting Europe in it's place?

That's what happens when the hubris of one man with an ambition to pull his party into line overrides the good of the country.

Suck it up snowflakes! :oops: :oops: :oops:

Hard Brexit has died? has it?

The matter won't go away though will it

A circumvention of the Nation's democratically achieved decision to regain control of laws, borders and membership payments will see the strong re-emergence of parties like UKIP. only this time it will be intensified due to the deception. The rise of these fringes was sufficiently worrying for Cameron to promise the referendum and it will be of more concern to the major parties enough to pander in some way.

It will happen

Don't you just love Populism

Nice touch by the way 'snowflakes' very inclusive. I understand that it has just been introduced as a derogatory term in the dictionary. You yourself have been victim to unfair name calling on here and so I am surprised that you have taken the first steps of that path!!!

In terms of economic predictions of the so called 8 - Can anyone of them guarantee the outcome with accuracy? please show me as I make a living out of such information. The answer should be yes or no

[SaigonSaddler]

Hard Brexit has died? has it?

The matter won't go away though will it

A circumvention of the Nation's democratically achieved decision to regain control of laws, borders and membership payments will see the strong re-emergence of parties like UKIP. only this time it will be intensified due to the deception. The rise of these fringes was sufficiently worrying for Cameron to promise the referendum and it will be of more concern to the major parties enough to pander in some way.

It will happen

Don't you just love Populism

Nice touch by the way 'snowflakes' very inclusive. I understand that it has just been introduced as a derogatory term in the dictionary. You yourself have been victim to unfair name calling on here and so I am surprised that you have taken the first steps of that path!!!

In terms of economic predictions of the so called 8 - Can anyone of them guarantee the outcome with accuracy? please show me as I make a living out of such information. The answer should be yes or no

What deception? What circumvention?

No-one was informed as to which kind of Brexit was on offer. No-one. Unless you know something we don't?

There's as much claim on the meekest of soft brexit terms as there is on your stiffy variant. :D

Predictions ... what a fantastic way to hide from reality. Well, no-one can predict the future with 100% certainty and guess what neither can you, so there comes a point when you make a judgement based on probability. If everyone is stating option X is a rotten idea and providing evidence then there's an excellent reason to suspect that it's a rotten idea. Pretty basic stuff.

I think you're about to be rolled by the machinations of great British parliament based upon the findings of the CBI, as they and everyone else realises that all the lies they were told amount to naff all and brexit will have a very real effect on the economy. 350 million for the NHS? Forget it. Have massive economic cake and eat it? No chance. Germany and France to grovel cap in hand? LOL. Amazing trade deals with Atlantis? Errr nope.

It's called reality mate. Have a massive quaff of it, then I'd like you to make a prediction as to what kind of flavour of brexit is going to be cack out. There's plenty of information for you to make an educated and informed judgement.

If you're still not sure, make a guess as to which way the economy will influence it when people are in danger of losing money. There's your answer. A custom union at all costs, and everything else is relegated to a wish list.

[Manchester Saddler]

a leak!!! what a disaster!!!! how could this happen???

not sure what your thoughts are on Stochastic modelling Manchester but leave or remain if anyone can guarantee me growth at all over the next 15 years I would snap their hands off. Now tell me Manchester can you guarantee me that these forecasts will happen. the answer should be yes or no.

Leaks happen and usually because it something that isn't good and the perpetrators feel that the public need to know.

Given the current economic trends,, the growth of the EU compared to us, the initial impact of Brexit then I am convinced that we will suffer. ALL scenarios are catered for and, don't forget:

(a) We haven't left yet.

(b) Nobody is trying to convince the electorate - this is a government study -and a lot of these studies have proven to be fairly accurate.

[Manchester Saddler]

Predictions again. They couldn't forecast last years so what chance have we with them being right in 15 years ?
As for predictions just read this and then tell me all these so called experts and predictors are always right.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/brit ... ysis-shows

Just the paragraph says it all really............ "This analysis shows that such a decision would cause an immediate and profound economic shock across the country, creating instability and uncertainty which would be made worse by the complex negotiations that would follow to agree the terms of Britain’s exit from the EU and its new relationship with the rest of Europe".
I think the term is "they don't know what they are doing".
See Mr Self Righteous MS, the only person in the whole country who knew what he was voting for, I do research as you preach. But due to it not being to your liking it will be ignored.

There's no need for insults, Swampy lad. I haven't called you any names. Do you mind stopping that - it does make people think that you are losing the argument whether you like it or not.

Anyway - That particular article was an attempt to sway voters ahead of the vote. The Leave campaign did it too - remember floods of refugees, £350 million etc. etc. etc?

I have read the small amounts of research you have posted and they have failed to convince me. Nothing has pointed out to me that "we will be better off after Brexit".

As far as I can see, the only light at the end of the tunnel is that we will be able to do business with the rest of the world. All countries want to trade with us with no consequences (like letting in their countrymen) in the idealic post-Brexit Britain.

But, correct me if I'm wrong - isn't that an EXPERT OPINION? Is that not PREDICTING THE FUTURE???

You choose to believe that but fail to look at the more believable and compelling evidence that is presented to you.

So - the challenge still stands, Swampy lad (or any Brexiteer).

Tell me why Brexit is a good thing and why we will be better off post-Brexit????

You just can't.

It's a bit like being a Scientologist or a Flat Earther. You seem to ignore all evidence that contradicts your belief system and dig your heels in no matter how absurd your beliefs are.

Come on, Swampy. Convince me!

:D

[Manchester Saddler]

Silence is golden!

:D

[Exile]

Silence is golden!

:D

Too busy feeding his golden goose and celebrating the trade deals with Narnia and Cloud Cuckoo Land. :D

[Manchester Saddler]

Silence is golden!

:D

Too busy feeding his golden goose and celebrating the trade deals with Narnia and Cloud Cuckoo Land. :D

They ALL are Exy.

:D

[canadiansaddler]

Silence is golden!

:D

Too busy feeding his golden goose and celebrating the trade deals with Narnia and Cloud Cuckoo Land. :D

They ALL are Exy.

:D

is it a Canadian Goose , assuming it was fed and raised in Canada it can be sold to the EU under the CETA

[swampysaddler]

Have you noticed Manchester you have no replies ?
Maybe it is because us Leavers are sick and tired of proving you wrong and we will let you sink into your self imposed depression, because we voted against you, and enjoy the view.
Toodle pip.
I am off to read more doom and gloom predictions from experts that are set up to fail (any MP will tell you that) that will be proven wrong AGAIN .
Still waiting by the way for the big "financial crash". Any idea when it is due ? Been waiting something like 18 months now !

[shrewsbury saddler]

Have YOU noticed this? I don't think it's remainers who are getting desperate.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tori ... -r7nc79cw5

[Manchester Saddler]

Have you noticed Manchester you have no replies ?
Maybe it is because us Leavers are sick and tired of proving you wrong and we will let you sink into your self imposed depression, because we voted against you, and enjoy the view.
Toodle pip.
I am off to read more doom and gloom predictions from experts that are set up to fail (any MP will tell you that) that will be proven wrong AGAIN .
Still waiting by the way for the big "financial crash". Any idea when it is due ? Been waiting something like 18 months now !

That's because, Swampy, that no leaver has proved me wrong. Try re-reading the thread. Even the government KNOW we will be WORSE off after Brexit.

The overwhelming evidence in favour of Remaining dwarfs any desperate nincompoopery that Brexiteers can pluck from their imaginations.

See you on a non-Brexit related thread, Swampy.

Thanks for acknowledging you've lost the argument.

:D

Any more Brexiteers want to take his place?

:D