Brexit Breakfast

[chunkster]

Good of Macron to agree we did the right thing in voting out, and the fact that if the same referendum has taken place in France they would have voted out as well :D give the peasants a voice and they will make themselves heard.

If you give the peasants a voice in a referendum Chunkster, we'd also no doubt have a return of the death penalty :shock:

Fred West
Myra Hindley
Ian Huntley
Peter Sutcliffe
Levi Belfield
Dennis Nielsen
Ian Brady
Seems like a good idea to me

So what about incorrect convictions? How many people have been given life sentences and then later proved to be innocent?

Even one mistake is too much!

Manchester, I chose those names for a reason, all had irrefutable evidence of guilt.
I will pick one name from that list, Ian Brady, a man so mentally unstable that he was unable to be ever released into the general population.

Explain why he should have lived any life after what he did to those children?

And costing us hundreds of thousands for his care :x

[SaigonSaddler]

Good of Macron to agree we did the right thing in voting out, and the fact that if the same referendum has taken place in France they would have voted out as well :D give the peasants a voice and they will make themselves heard.

If you give the peasants a voice in a referendum Chunkster, we'd also no doubt have a return of the death penalty :shock:

Fred West
Myra Hindley
Ian Huntley
Peter Sutcliffe
Levi Belfield
Dennis Nielsen
Ian Brady
Seems like a good idea to me

So what about incorrect convictions? How many people have been given life sentences and then later proved to be innocent?

Even one mistake is too much!

Manchester, I chose those names for a reason, all had irrefutable evidence of guilt.
I will pick one name from that list, Ian Brady, a man so mentally unstable that he was unable to be ever released into the general population.

Explain why he should have lived any life after what he did to those children?

Because he was mentally unstable and legally had diminished responsibility - the answer's in your own statement.

This knee-jerk vengeful attitude really is harking back to a dogmatic religious past. We're better than these people, submission to pay back violence is childish, counter-productive and misguided.

[chunkster]

As a matter of interest, when was the death penalty introduced ? and abolished in this country?

[SaigonSaddler]

As a matter of interest, when was the death penalty introduced ? and abolished in this country?

Abolished in the 1960s.

[chunkster]

As a matter of interest, when was the death penalty introduced ? and abolished in this country?

Abolished in the 1960s.

I think i can remember 2 cases that shouldn't have resulted in the death penalty in this country, ruth ellis which was described as a crime of passion, and in this day and age she would only have got a few years imprisonment, and derek bentley, who had learning difficulties, and got convicted for shouting to his friend with the gun, "let him have it" the prosecution said he meant, shoot the police officer, but the defence team argued that after the officer shouted "just give me the gun" that is what derek meant when he said "let him have it"he meant the gun not to shoot him :(

[Manchester Saddler]

Good of Macron to agree we did the right thing in voting out, and the fact that if the same referendum has taken place in France they would have voted out as well :D give the peasants a voice and they will make themselves heard.

If you give the peasants a voice in a referendum Chunkster, we'd also no doubt have a return of the death penalty :shock:

Fred West
Myra Hindley
Ian Huntley
Peter Sutcliffe
Levi Belfield
Dennis Nielsen
Ian Brady
Seems like a good idea to me

So what about incorrect convictions? How many people have been given life sentences and then later proved to be innocent?

Even one mistake is too much!

Manchester, I chose those names for a reason, all had irrefutable evidence of guilt.
I will pick one name from that list, Ian Brady, a man so mentally unstable that he was unable to be ever released into the general population.

Explain why he should have lived any life after what he did to those children?

If one person who has been executed is then later found to be innocent then that is a reason NOT to have the death penalty.

Timothy Evans - a man convicted of murdering his wife and infant child was later found innocent - 16 years later in fact - and posthumously pardoned.

There are quite a few cases similar to this from around the world.

If an innocent person is murdered (and that is what we are talking about here Wragbyred) by the state then that is totally and utterly wrong!

Tell me how it can be right!

[Wragbyred]

If an innocent person is murdered (and that is what we are talking about here Wragbyred) by the state then that is totally and utterly wrong!

Tell me how it can be right!

So, using that thinking, when a soldier/sailor/airman goes into battle they could come home as murderers?

[yoda]

As a matter of interest, when was the death penalty introduced ? and abolished in this country?

Abolished in the 1960s.

If I recall, the death penalty for treason was only abolished in the late 90's (although it wasn't used).

[El_Nombre]

If an innocent person is murdered (and that is what we are talking about here Wragbyred) by the state then that is totally and utterly wrong!

Tell me how it can be right!

So, using that thinking, when a soldier/sailor/airman goes into battle they could come home as murderers?

No, that would be the person giving the orders. Soldiers are murderers by trade. The idea is that it's lawful killing on orders of the state.

[SaigonSaddler]

If an innocent person is murdered (and that is what we are talking about here Wragbyred) by the state then that is totally and utterly wrong!

Tell me how it can be right!

So, using that thinking, when a soldier/sailor/airman goes into battle they could come home as murderers?

Of course not!!!

Unless there's some massive deviation from the rules of engagement.

[swampysaddler]

If an innocent person is murdered (and that is what we are talking about here Wragbyred) by the state then that is totally and utterly wrong!

Tell me how it can be right!

So, using that thinking, when a soldier/sailor/airman goes into battle they could come home as murderers?

Of course not!!!

Unless there's some massive deviation from the rules of engagement.

So explain the witch hunt that is going on for ex serving members of Operation Banner (Northern Ireland) who where only following orders.

[derbysaddler]

Really not sure what Brexit has to do with the death penalty, even without EU law I doubt very much any prime minister would touch that particular subject with a barge pole. Some posters appear to be getting confused again with the theme of the thread.

[El_Nombre]

Really not sure what Brexit has to do with the death penalty, even without EU law I doubt very much any prime minister would touch that particular subject with a barge pole. Some posters appear to be getting confused again with the theme of the thread.

Because most people that support Brexit would love a return to the 1960s.

I mean, they had less money, no TV and no Car but at least Johnny Foreigner wasn't walking around as if he owned the place and we all had street parties with Jam sandwiches.

[SaigonSaddler]

If an innocent person is murdered (and that is what we are talking about here Wragbyred) by the state then that is totally and utterly wrong!

Tell me how it can be right!

So, using that thinking, when a soldier/sailor/airman goes into battle they could come home as murderers?

Of course not!!!

Unless there's some massive deviation from the rules of engagement.

So explain the witch hunt that is going on for ex serving members of Operation Banner (Northern Ireland) who where only following orders.

See - rules of engagement.

[Wragbyred]

Really not sure what Brexit has to do with the death penalty, even without EU law I doubt very much any prime minister would touch that particular subject with a barge pole. Some posters appear to be getting confused again with the theme of the thread.

Because most people that support Brexit would love a return to the 1960s.

I mean, they had less money, no TV and no Car but at least Johnny Foreigner wasn't walking around as if he owned the place and we all had street parties with Jam sandwiches.

If you were lucky you even had jelly and orange pop
Those were the days!!

[swampysaddler]

If an innocent person is murdered (and that is what we are talking about here Wragbyred) by the state then that is totally and utterly wrong!

Tell me how it can be right!

So, using that thinking, when a soldier/sailor/airman goes into battle they could come home as murderers?

Of course not!!!

Unless there's some massive deviation from the rules of engagement.

So explain the witch hunt that is going on for ex serving members of Operation Banner (Northern Ireland) who where only following orders.

See - rules of engagement.

I know all to well about the "Rules of Engagement" but why chase after ex serving from over 40 years ago whilst convicted murdering IRA terrorists are walking free thanks to the one and only Mr Cottager Anthony Charles Lynton Blair ?

[Cowshed]

No death penalty it's too quick

Life sentence with absolutely no chance of release

The prisons budget to be decimated and redirected to Nhs

Left to rot in low budget prisons

[chunkster]

Good to see mr Cameron admitting today that the vote hasn't been the disaster he thought it would be :mrgreen: so with Macron's quote last week it is looking like we brexiteers are slowly looking to be proved right :)

[SaigonSaddler]

Good to see mr Cameron admitting today that the vote hasn't been the disaster he thought it would be :mrgreen: so with Macron's quote last week it is looking like we brexiteers are slowly looking to be proved right :)

How d'ya work that one out???

Macron's statement is nothing more than an exercise in diplomacy, a single sentence response which you're attempting to conflate into a ringing endorsement. :? 'A lot of losers voted to leave'. LOL

Cameron ... :lol: :lol: :lol: You don't think it's in his interests to play down the fiasco, having directly caused it?

Assume your post is another light-hearted quip. :D

[chunkster]

Good to see mr Cameron admitting today that the vote hasn't been the disaster he thought it would be :mrgreen: so with Macron's quote last week it is looking like we brexiteers are slowly looking to be proved right :)

How d'ya work that one out???

Macron's statement is nothing more than an exercise in diplomacy, a single sentence response which you're attempting to conflate into a ringing endorsement. :? 'A lot of losers voted to leave'. LOL

Cameron ... :lol: :lol: :lol: You don't think it's in his interests to play down the fiasco, having directly caused it?

Assume your post is another light-hearted quip. :D

:lol: :lol: i wish there was a fishing emoji :wink:

[SaigonSaddler]

Good to see mr Cameron admitting today that the vote hasn't been the disaster he thought it would be :mrgreen: so with Macron's quote last week it is looking like we brexiteers are slowly looking to be proved right :)

How d'ya work that one out???

Macron's statement is nothing more than an exercise in diplomacy, a single sentence response which you're attempting to conflate into a ringing endorsement. :? 'A lot of losers voted to leave'. LOL

Cameron ... :lol: :lol: :lol: You don't think it's in his interests to play down the fiasco, having directly caused it?

Assume your post is another light-hearted quip. :D

:lol: :lol: i wish there was a fishing emoji :wink:

Well played sir! :D :wink:

[Ancient Moaner]

Really not sure what Brexit has to do with the death penalty, even without EU law I doubt very much any prime minister would touch that particular subject with a barge pole. Some posters appear to be getting confused again with the theme of the thread.

Because most people that support Brexit would love a return to the 1960s.

I mean, they had less money, no TV and no Car but at least Johnny Foreigner wasn't walking around as if he owned the place and we all had street parties with Jam sandwiches.

At least we had UK laws, not subject to Jonny Foreigner sticking his garlic embellished fingers in, and telling us we can't send that terrorist to prison, or stop him watching sky from his cell, because it is against his human rights etc.
Was watching a sky channel programme today about cam wearing police, when it was revealed that many police forces are not allowed to use spit hoods when being spat at by foul mouthed, chip on their shoulder, wastrels! my god PC'ness is turning this country into a joke, no sorry it's the 'remoaners' that are the joke!

Couldn't resist............
Slinks underground for the tirade of abuse to follow! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Manchester Saddler]

Really not sure what Brexit has to do with the death penalty, even without EU law I doubt very much any prime minister would touch that particular subject with a barge pole. Some posters appear to be getting confused again with the theme of the thread.

Because most people that support Brexit would love a return to the 1960s.

I mean, they had less money, no TV and no Car but at least Johnny Foreigner wasn't walking around as if he owned the place and we all had street parties with Jam sandwiches.

At least we had UK laws, not subject to Jonny Foreigner sticking his garlic embellished fingers in, and telling us we can't send that terrorist to prison, or stop him watching sky from his cell, because it is against his human rights etc.
Was watching a sky channel programme today about cam wearing police, when it was revealed that many police forces are not allowed to use spit hoods when being spat at by foul mouthed, chip on their shoulder, wastrels! my god PC'ness is turning this country into a joke, no sorry it's the 'remoaners' that are the joke!

Couldn't resist............
Slinks underground for the tirade of abuse to follow! :lol: :lol: :lol:

<sigh>

We still have UK laws AM. Tell me - which EU law would you want to get rid of?

Maybe you want to get rid of some EU guidelines - like the "working time directive" that protects workers' rights and stops corporate fat cats from sacking people when they refuse to work 100 hour weeks? Or perhaps you would love us to become like America generally where we end up with only two weeks holiday a year?

Or maybe we should arm the police like America and allow them to shoot innocent people?

Maybe - even better - we get rid of human rights completely and allow the government/police to arrest people for NO REASON and keep them behind bars indefinitely and torture them?

Don't you think that if the police were to arrest suspected terrorists and keep them indefinitely even though they had little or no proof of their guilt (which sadly does happen) thus alienating ethnic minorities further and ultimately causing yet MORE trouble?

Or maybe in your Utopian world, hate-spreading far right organisations like the EDL, BNP or Britain First would fall under this umbrella and be arrested for encouraging people like Darren Osborne to plough his van into innocent Muslims?

What do you think of that, by the way AM?

And don't you think that calling foreigners "Johnny Foreigner" and referring to "garlic embellished fingers" is a bad thing to write on a forum?

I'm, sorry, AM - I've met you and you seem like a nice guy - but posts like this really wind me up.

The world has changed and such xenophobia (and I'm being kind here) should have no place in the modern world.

[Guest]

Oh dear! BREXIT now means BRINO ....

[yoda]

Slinks underground for the tirade of abuse to follow! :lol: :lol: :lol:

"Having delivered my thoughts, I'm now going to run away so I don't have to read everyone else's. This could be because my ego tells me my views are more important than yours or it could be because I don't want to break the habit of a lifetime of actually engaging with people and considering other solutions to problems. Or it could be because I'm too lazy to read replies.

Either way I am poorly representing other people who share my viewpoint (who have valid reasons) as narrow minded, egotistical and impolite and furthering the negative stereotype that we have not considered our actions."

[shrewsbury saddler]

"my god PC'ness is turning this country into a joke"

What is political correctness? Basically not using words to describe people that they find distasteful If the makes us a joke, I'm happy to be the butt of it. Or maybe you preferred a world where people where routinely called, "darkies," "faggots" and "mongols?"

[Manchester Saddler]

Oh dear! BREXIT now means BRINO ....

WTF?

I know this is something from the mind of Jacob Rees-Mogg, arguably the most out of touch man in the Tory party.

He basically postulates that we the people voted for complete and utter disconnection from the EU and I don't remember seeing that or indeed anything CLOSE to it on the ballot paper.

Did anybody see any options whatsoever other than stay or leave?

Did anyone see any caveats?

These hard-line Brexiteers are suggesting something that we simply didn't vote for - not by any stretch of the imagination.

Jacob Rees-Mogg and others like him are welcome to their opinions but stop, for God's sake, lying about what we voted for in order to force a hardline Brexit that will fork the UK in a way that is even worse than the catastrophe we are already stumbling towards.

[Manchester Saddler]

"my god PC'ness is turning this country into a joke"

What is political correctness? Basically not using words to describe people that they find distasteful If the makes us a joke, I'm happy to be the butt of it. Or maybe you preferred a world where people where routinely called, "darkies," "faggots" and "mongols?"

There are a lot of people from this age group in particular who crave the lifestyle of the 50's to 70's.

This is what has ultimately led us to the situation we are in because youngsters (who will be mostly affected by things like Brexit) are mostly unaware of what will be the consequences.

Really there are some posts on this thread that ought to be put out there on social media to open their eyes to the kind of (older) people who are ruining their future.

The standing joke that UKIPpers are old farts is not too far from the truth,

[Cowshed]

Oh dear! BREXIT now means BRINO ....

WTF?

I know this is something from the mind of Jacob Rees-Mogg, arguably the most out of touch man in the Tory party.

He basically postulates that we the people voted for complete and utter disconnection from the EU and I don't remember seeing that or indeed anything CLOSE to it on the ballot paper.

Did anybody see any options whatsoever other than stay or leave?

Did anyone see any caveats?

These hard-line Brexiteers are suggesting something that we simply didn't vote for - not by any stretch of the imaginuation.

Jacob Rees-Mogg and others like him are welcome to their opinions but stop, for God's sake, lying about what we voted for in order to force a hardline Brexit that will fork the UK in a way that is even worse than the catastrophe we are already stumbling towards.

JRM is gathering quite a groundswell of support across all of the demographics and quite right too he's saying it exactly how it is

[Cowshed]

"my god PC'ness is turning this country into a joke"

What is political correctness? Basically not using words to describe people that they find distasteful If the makes us a joke, I'm happy to be the butt of it. Or maybe you preferred a world where people where routinely called, "darkies," "faggots" and "mongols?"

There are a lot of people from this age group in particular who crave the lifestyle of the 50's to 70's.

This is what has ultimately led us to the situation we are in because youngsters (who will be mostly affected by things like Brexit) are mostly unaware of what will be the consequences.

Really there are some posts on this thread that ought to be put out there on social media to open their eyes to the kind of (older) people who are ruining their future.

The standing joke that UKIPpers are old farts is not too far from the truth,

Given the longevity statistics for this demographic the old farts are only going to increase in number :)