Brexit Breakfast

[shrewsbury saddler]

I did suggest that pressure for 2nd referendum would eventually come from Brexiteers, but not, I thought, this quickly.(Assuming you can take what Farage said at face value.)



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42649214

[Guest]

I did suggest that pressure for 2nd referendum would eventually come from Brexiteers, but not, I thought, this quickly.(Assuming you can take what Farage said at face value.)



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42649214

They are finally realising that what they are going to get from May will not be Brexit.

[shrewsbury saddler]

I did suggest that pressure for 2nd referendum would eventually come from Brexiteers, but not, I thought, this quickly.(Assuming you can take what Farage said at face value.)



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42649214

They are finally realising that what they are going to get from May will not be Brexit.

I also think he's looking at the demographic of the referendum vote. If there is to be a 2nd, it's in his interests for it to be sooner than later. The longer it takes the more of the older Brexit voters will have died, being replaced by first timers statistically more likely to be Remainers.

[Manchester Saddler]

You should read the comments on the Daily Express website.
But then again what would you expect from the Daily Mail and Daily Express.

You are not just hysterical, you are also obsessed.

You've also little respect for democracy nor respect for the views of someone other than you.

I'm neither hysterical nor obsessed,Ken.

What I am is furious - still!

And what I have proven by this and other threads is that Brexiteers have not one positive to say about Brexit itself.

I read around, Ken, which means I read sources from the left and the right. As much as I despise reading papers like the Daily Mail and Daily Express, in my quest to find something positive about Brexit (cos I ain't getting anything from UTS Brexiteers that's for sure) I am looking for something that will give me hope. And, of course, I find nothing but vitriol and contempt for "traitors".

I have respect for democracy because at least we can turf out the Tories when they start to fork things up (as they are doing now). The problem with the Brexit referendum was that it should never have happened in the first place - and worse - many Brexiteers now regret that decsion and, really, want a chance to redeem themselves particularly as the clueless Tories are forking this up big time.

Many Brexiteers now know that they have made a mistake. The vote was close and I am certain that if there were a referendum then it would go the other way know that we all have more knowledge about what is involved.

I noticed that Farage is coming round to the idea - although he is misguided in that he thinks the Leave vote will be even stronger - that's not what I've read.

The problem with you, Ken (and I am saying this in as nice a way as possible) is that you just don't look at the bigger picture. You don't try to understand the opposite viewpoint - I have by asking the question CONTINUALLY and reading rags like the Mail. I have found nothing to convince me.

You talk about democracy but in a TRUE democracy, we have the RIGHT to speak up for our opinions and challenge the people in power - otherwise this is a dictatorship not a democracy.

We had the chance to have another election within two years of Cameron's victory - and look how many people changed their minds!

Brexit is a HUGE mistake - people know that. Why shouldn't we have the chance to rectify our mistake?

Or perhaps, Ken, you can persuade me that I am wrong.

I am all ears.

Why is Brexit a GOOD THING???

(How many times do I have to ask?????).

Persuade me Ken - without petty insults preferably.

[Manchester Saddler]

I did suggest that pressure for 2nd referendum would eventually come from Brexiteers, but not, I thought, this quickly.(Assuming you can take what Farage said at face value.)



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42649214

What's interesting about Farage and UKIP is that had they LOST the referendum then they had contingency plans to fight for a second referendum as soon as possible. They criticise Remainers for wanting a second referendum and not accepting the result but had they lost there would have been uproar in the UKIP camp and you can bet your bottom dollar that UKIP wouldn't have accepted the democratic vote of the people and disbanded!

Total hypocrisy!!

[saddlerken]

Why is it a bad thing?

Can it be neither?

Can't it just be a thing?

You can read as many predictions from either sides experts but they are only predictions.

I like democracy which is one very good reason to leave an organisation led by people who are unelected. That's a reason. If I wanted to vote for something for one reason, and that was it, what would be wrong with that?

People will vote for Labour on the NHS and for no other reason, the same goes for people who vote for other partys.

I cannot understand why so many people are so hysterical. You are hysterical.

[SaigonSaddler]

Why is it a bad thing?

Can it be neither?

Can't it just be a thing?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

What the ... :?: :wink:

[Manchester Saddler]

Why is it a bad thing?

Can it be neither?

Can't it just be a thing?

You can read as many predictions from either sides experts but they are only predictions.

I like democracy which is one very good reason to leave an organisation led by people who are unelected. That's a reason. If I wanted to vote for something for one reason, and that was it, what would be wrong with that?

People will vote for Labour on the NHS and for no other reason, the same goes for people who vote for other partys.

I cannot understand why so many people are so hysterical. You are hysterical.

<sigh>

With all due respect, Ken - that is a totally misinformed and clueless response and it proves that you do not understand what you voted for.

My first point that I have repeated ad nauseam is that members of the EU parliament ARE elected. What do you think an MEP is? What do you think the European Elections are? Nigel Farage himself is an MEP.

"People only vote Labour for the NHS" - OH MY GOD!!!!

You actually have no idea what democracy is. While others may laugh at the naivety of your response, I am deeply saddened by it.

:(

I would suggest that you actually start reading things. There is hope for you if you do that!

[saddlerken]

I think you just proved my point.

You are hysterical and irrational.

[chunkster]

WHEN we leave the EU will it have an effect on health tourists? because if it does then there is a positive manchester, because i read the other day that they have cost the NHS 10 million last year, and with them struggling to treat people, no beds and having to treat patients on trolleys then surely that 10 million we save would help :D

[Manchester Saddler]

I think you just proved my point.

You are hysterical and irrational.

How so? By pointing out you how naive and clueless your previous post was?

:lol:

[Manchester Saddler]

WHEN we leave the EU will it have an effect on health tourists? because if it does then there is a positive manchester, because i read the other day that they have cost the NHS 10 million last year, and with them struggling to treat people, no beds and having to treat patients on trolleys then surely that 10 million we save would help :D

Yes - read it in the Daily Express, no doubt! :roll:

Perhaps the NHS will benefit from the £350 million PER WEEK that was promised as a result of Brexit?

The NHS needs a hell of a lot more than 10 million a year to sort out it's problems!

You are another who would benefit from reading up about health tourism.

Ken called me hysterical ( :lol: ) - I wonder whether he thinks YOU'RE hysterical for this scaremongery?

[chunkster]

WHEN we leave the EU will it have an effect on health tourists? because if it does then there is a positive manchester, because i read the other day that they have cost the NHS 10 million last year, and with them struggling to treat people, no beds and having to treat patients on trolleys then surely that 10 million we save would help :D

Yes - read it in the Daily Express, no doubt! :roll:

Perhaps the NHS will benefit from the £350 million PER WEEK that was promised as a result of Brexit?

The NHS needs a hell of a lot more than 10 million a year to sort out it's problems!

You are another who would benefit from reading up about health tourism.

Ken called me hysterical ( :lol: ) - I wonder whether he thinks YOU'RE hysterical for this scaremongery?

i think Ken would probably agree with me :) and you could benefit from reading up on the fact that we are leaving. and no amount of your hissy fits will change that :lol:

[Manchester Saddler]

Are you telling me you are as clueless as Ken? :D :wink:

Believe me - I have read a lot - and it is not cast in stone!!

Wondering when I had a hissy fit though!

If pointing out the glaring flaws in Brexiteers' arguments while looking for evidence of the positives of Brexit ( :lol: ) are what you call a hissy fit then you probably need to reread the urban dictionary!

:D :wink:

[chunkster]

Are you telling me you are as clueless as Ken? :D :wink:

Believe me - I have read a lot - and it is not cast in stone!!

Wondering when I had a hissy fit though!

If pointing out the glaring flaws in Brexiteers' arguments while looking for evidence of the positives of Brexit ( :lol: ) are what you call a hissy fit then you probably need to reread the urban dictionary!

:D :wink:

I love coming down here for a mauling now and again :mrgreen:

[Cowshed]

Are you telling me you are as clueless as Ken? :D :wink:

Believe me - I have read a lot - and it is not cast in stone!!

Wondering when I had a hissy fit though!

If pointing out the glaring flaws in Brexiteers' arguments while looking for evidence of the positives of Brexit ( :lol: ) are what you call a hissy fit then you probably need to reread the urban dictionary!

:D :wink:

Ok Manchester you are clearly using the site as part of some sort of social media campaign but I have to say that you are struggling somewhat.

When People take action to buy into something i.e goods or services, or in this case, vote, it is usually emotion based. They may do some research but definitely the final decision is based on how they feel about it. Trust me on this.

From a sales perspective the eu referendum campaign by the leave side was a fantastically professional example of salesmanship or spin. In fact several sales texts are now referring to the strategies used and I can see why. Classic sales theory is to play on emotion, create a shortfall or build up a fear and then bring a solution to fill the shortfall or need.

As a method of influence the power of 'expert' can be significant but the more skilful user will know how and when to use it. When you keep telling people how much more knowledgeable you are than them and how stupid they are for following their gut feelings, what emotions do you think you invoke in them? Do you think you are selling remain or do you think people , leave or remain, couldn't care less about brexit but every emotion they feel tells them they could never agree with you?

[chunkster]

Are you telling me you are as clueless as Ken? :D :wink:

Believe me - I have read a lot - and it is not cast in stone!!

Wondering when I had a hissy fit though!

If pointing out the glaring flaws in Brexiteers' arguments while looking for evidence of the positives of Brexit ( :lol: ) are what you call a hissy fit then you probably need to reread the urban dictionary!

:D :wink:

Ok Manchester you are clearly using the site as part of some sort of social media campaign but I have to say that you are struggling somewhat.

When People take action to buy into something i.e goods or services, or in this case, vote, it is usually emotion based. They may do some research but definitely the final decision is based on how they feel about it. Trust me on this.

From a sales perspective the eu referendum campaign by the leave side was a fantastically professional example of salesmanship or spin. In fact several sales texts are now referring to the strategies used and I can see why. Classic sales theory is to play on emotion, create a shortfall or build up a fear and then bring a solution to fill the shortfall or need.

As a method of influence the power of 'expert' can be significant but the more skilful user will know how and when to use it. When you keep telling people how much more knowledgeable you are than them and how stupid they are for following their gut feelings, what emotions do you think you invoke in them? Do you think you are selling remain or do you think people , leave or remain, couldn't care less about brexit but every emotion they feel tells them they could never agree with you?

And i also love it when someone who knows what they are talking about posts something to make the manc look like the stupid supersilious git that he can be :wink:

[Manchester Saddler]

Are you telling me you are as clueless as Ken? :D :wink:

Believe me - I have read a lot - and it is not cast in stone!!

Wondering when I had a hissy fit though!

If pointing out the glaring flaws in Brexiteers' arguments while looking for evidence of the positives of Brexit ( :lol: ) are what you call a hissy fit then you probably need to reread the urban dictionary!

:D :wink:

Ok Manchester you are clearly using the site as part of some sort of social media campaign but I have to say that you are struggling somewhat.

When People take action to buy into something i.e goods or services, or in this case, vote, it is usually emotion based. They may do some research but definitely the final decision is based on how they feel about it. Trust me on this.

From a sales perspective the eu referendum campaign by the leave side was a fantastically professional example of salesmanship or spin. In fact several sales texts are now referring to the strategies used and I can see why. Classic sales theory is to play on emotion, create a shortfall or build up a fear and then bring a solution to fill the shortfall or need.

As a method of influence the power of 'expert' can be significant but the more skilful user will know how and when to use it. When you keep telling people how much more knowledgeable you are than them and how stupid they are for following their gut feelings, what emotions do you think you invoke in them? Do you think you are selling remain or do you think people , leave or remain, couldn't care less about brexit but every emotion they feel tells them they could never agree with you?

What I am trying to do, Cowshed, is to get Brexiteers to tell me why they voted for Brexit and why it will benefit the country, That is all. And the only struggle I am having is to get a decent answer. I haven't had a single positive. I haven't read a single positive. I am looking for just one positive.

Brexiteers tell me that I am wrong but offer no evidence. I am merely seeking to expand my knowledge into the mindset of a Brexiteer,

I don't claim to know everything - but what I do on this board is basically say "This is why I voted Remain - now tell me why I should have voted Leave!"

Look back through my posts on this and other threads.

If there is evidence of "Brexit is Best" - where is it? GIve me proof.

It is a debate. In a debate, you state why you support one side of the debate and the other side do the same. You offer evidence to support your opinions. The other side does the same.

The difference here is that I am offering loads of evidence and giving my reasons to Remain. No Brexiteer has done this. Read back if you don't believe me.

Even better - correct me if you think I am wrong.

That is all I am doing.

With the exception of Ken above, whose answer was rather naive, I try not to insult people (actually he insulted me calling me "hysterical" just because I disagree with him :? ).

Emotion is a strong thing and so is passion. I am passionate about this because I believe that Brexiteers are wrong.

Nothing more - nothing less.

I hate to repeat myself yet again but I want an equally passionate Brexiteer to engage with me and offer evidence to support their cause.

If we had had a decent debate about this massively important issue then perhaps the result might have been different.

I have opened up and challenged people to convince me that I am wrong.

That is all.

[Manchester Saddler]

Are you telling me you are as clueless as Ken? :D :wink:

Believe me - I have read a lot - and it is not cast in stone!!

Wondering when I had a hissy fit though!

If pointing out the glaring flaws in Brexiteers' arguments while looking for evidence of the positives of Brexit ( :lol: ) are what you call a hissy fit then you probably need to reread the urban dictionary!

:D :wink:

Ok Manchester you are clearly using the site as part of some sort of social media campaign but I have to say that you are struggling somewhat.

When People take action to buy into something i.e goods or services, or in this case, vote, it is usually emotion based. They may do some research but definitely the final decision is based on how they feel about it. Trust me on this.

From a sales perspective the eu referendum campaign by the leave side was a fantastically professional example of salesmanship or spin. In fact several sales texts are now referring to the strategies used and I can see why. Classic sales theory is to play on emotion, create a shortfall or build up a fear and then bring a solution to fill the shortfall or need.

As a method of influence the power of 'expert' can be significant but the more skilful user will know how and when to use it. When you keep telling people how much more knowledgeable you are than them and how stupid they are for following their gut feelings, what emotions do you think you invoke in them? Do you think you are selling remain or do you think people , leave or remain, couldn't care less about brexit but every emotion they feel tells them they could never agree with you?

And i also love it when someone who knows what they are talking about posts something to make the manc look like the stupid supersilious git that he can be :wink:

So funny - but nobody ssems to know what they are talking about. Again - convince me!

[chunkster]

hissy fit
nounNORTH AMERICANinformal
an angry outburst; a temper tantrum. when someone is trying to get a pointless point across :wink:

[Manchester Saddler]

hissy fit
nounNORTH AMERICANinformal
an angry outburst; a temper tantrum. :mrgreen:

Then it's clear that I HAVEN'T Had any hissy fits!

:D

[chunkster]

hissy fit
nounNORTH AMERICANinformal
an angry outburst; a temper tantrum. :mrgreen:

Then it's clear that I HAVEN'T Had any hissy fits!

:D

ok maybe i over stated it :wink: but you have got to admit you do go on and on and on about the bloody out vote being the wrong decision, even if it is a result that we as a country have voted for, even if you don't agree with it, why don't you just get over it? it is going to happen so move on, you will feel so much better when you let it go :mrgreen:

[swampysaddler]

Just listen to what is said around the minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRowLjb0x48

[Exile]

Just listen to what is said around the minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRowLjb0x48

You voted leave, you want to leave. Why? What's the benefit to you? What improvements will leaving the EU bring to you as an individual and to the country as a whole?

[saddlerken]

Hysterical.

Doesn't respect other people's opinions or democracy.

Strangely arrogant given small brain.

Repetitive.

Boring.

Manchester.

Can you imagine if I came on here every day and asked you 10 times a day why on Earth you'd vote for Jeremy Corbyn? Far more dangerous to our Economy than Brexit could ever be. And it would be impossible to convince me otherwise. I don't because anyone can do what the fudge they like.

[Manchester Saddler]

Hysterical.

Doesn't respect other people's opinions or democracy.

Strangely arrogant given small brain.

Repetitive.

Boring.

Manchester.

Can you imagine if I came on here every day and asked you 10 times a day why on Earth you'd vote for Jeremy Corbyn? Far more dangerous to our Economy than Brexit could ever be. And it would be impossible to convince me otherwise. I don't because anyone can do what the fudge they like.

First of all, I genuinely don't think you understand the gravity of the situation, Ken, And puerile name-calling won't make me go away.

So I will attempt to engage you again (don't know why but let's try).

(1) Why do you think I am being hysterical?

(2) Why don't I respect other people's opinions? I am asking you WHY you voted for Brexit in order to FIND OUT your opinion!!

(3) Why don't I respect democracy? Do you honestly think that once a vote has taken place then people who lost should just change their own opinions or shut up? Like I said, you don't understand democracy if you think that the losers should be suppressed. That is a dictatorship.

(4) Strangely arrogant given small brain? How clever of you. If you have to resort to insults then that says a lot about you and your arguments. What makes you think I am arrogant? And why do you think I have a small brain?

(5) Repetitive and boring - Repetitive - yes - boring? No! I am simply trying to get an answer to a question and none is forthcoming. Why is Brexit a good thing?

(6) I would welcome a debate with you on the pros and cons of either Theresa May OR Jeremy Corbyn. Even more interesting I would like to know why Corbyn is far more dangerous to our economy than Brexit. Why do you think that Ken? Let's start another discussion - and I won't get bored with your repetitive questions.

I ain't going to go away, Ken.

And if you don't want to engage because you are "bored" then simply stop reading the thread and stop replying to my posts.

Simple.

[Manchester Saddler]

Just listen to what is said around the minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRowLjb0x48

You voted leave, you want to leave. Why? What's the benefit to you? What improvements will leaving the EU bring to you as an individual and to the country as a whole?

Good questions, Exile.

I'd love to hear the answers from Swampster or indeed any other Brexiteer.

[Manchester Saddler]

hissy fit
nounNORTH AMERICANinformal
an angry outburst; a temper tantrum. :mrgreen:

Then it's clear that I HAVEN'T Had any hissy fits!

:D

ok maybe i over stated it :wink: but you have got to admit you do go on and on and on about the bloody out vote being the wrong decision, even if it is a result that we as a country have voted for, even if you don't agree with it, why don't you just get over it? it is going to happen so move on, you will feel so much better when you let it go :mrgreen:

I won't get over it because I think Brexit is a huge mistake that is going to make our country a far worse place to live.

I am trying to understand why people think Brexit is a good thing and why Brexiteers think I am wrong.

We live in a country of free speech and democracy so I am entitled to question the establishment.

Please tell me why I am wrong and why you think that Brexit is a good thing for the country.

That's all I am asking.

:D

[SaigonSaddler]

Can you imagine if I came on here every day and asked you 10 times a day why on Earth you'd vote for Jeremy Corbyn? Far more dangerous to our Economy than Brexit could ever be. And it would be impossible to convince me otherwise. I don't because anyone can do what the fudge they like.

Sorry in advance but the comparison is utter bollocks. Corbyn, or indeed anyone has to lay out a clear indication of what they propose - it's called a manifesto. The opposition exists to challenge how well they are doing and deviations from the manifesto.

How is this similar to Brexit?

No-one from the top down knows what 'the plan' is. Even the chief negotiators are flying by the seat of their pants, reacting to EU statements and backtracking wildly on claims made over the past 18 months.

The comparison is utterly absurd, the claim massively over-egged and only succeeds in completely missing the entire point.

Apart from that, excellent. :wink:

[El_Nombre]

Can you imagine if I came on here every day and asked you 10 times a day why on Earth you'd vote for Jeremy Corbyn? Far more dangerous to our Economy than Brexit could ever be. And it would be impossible to convince me otherwise. I don't because anyone can do what the fudge they like.

Because he'd be spending that money on things like the NHS, Building affordable homes to actually give people a chance of getting on the property ladder and accessible education FOR ALL.

Not blue passports, bendy bananas and keeping them brown people out.

Not everything is about the economy.