Capello

[Fray Bentos is God!]

Love the terry and upson comment. Cant head a ball if there life depended on it. Who scored for england this afternoon. And how was the goal scored.

Consdering the both of them couldn't read a goal kick, I would still say I am right.

[SheffieldSaddler]

Lampard - I suppose getting a shot or two on target in a finals is an improvement but apart from that... CLUELESS.

And remind me again.
Which England player had most shots on target in the World Cup in 1996?
:roll:

:lol: you're defending him. I know love hurts sometimes but if you're going to snipe. Do it over PM.

Whoops... you tried that.

Over and out, Simple.

Its FACTS thats all CLUELESS one.

[Duke]

Alan Shearer believes the player are not happy under Capello and don't like him if that's the case where do we go from here .
Not suggesting Shearer is right but clearly there is a problem in the England camp.

[tinned]

Capello has disappointed me big time. I thought he was too smart to fall in to the same trap that Sven did of shoe horning the same players into formations and positions that don't suit them.

Having said that the players deserve all the criticism they're going to get. If I was at a Premier League game this season I'd be making my thoughts known, especially to that thick scouse idiot Rooney. How dare you criticise loyal England fans for voicing their opinions, you overpaid, useless, twerp.

[4143]

I've never been fully convinced by Capello, in all honesty, I've never liked him.

I also dislike the way he was built up to be some kind of genius - the look on his face suggests he doesn't know what bloody day it is, to me.

Yes, the players will rightly receive criticism, but I want to make sure Postman Pat doesn't go under the radar.

[tinned]

I've never been fully convinced by Capello, in all honesty, I've never liked him.

I also dislike the way he was built up to be some kind of genius - the look on his face suggests he doesn't know what bloody day it is, to me.

Yes, the players will rightly receive criticism, but I want to make sure Postman Pat doesn't go under the radar.

After the Algeria game he looked like Jimmy Muddle.

[Exile]

This is from a meeting some time ago:

At the gathering called to resolve a dispute over Sven's request for his players to report for four weeks before next year's World Cup, Dave Richards, the Premier League chairman, thumped the table. "The Premier League won't stand for this," he screamed, furious about disagreements among the FA's bureaucrats. "Go on like this, and the Premier League will break away. Our players don't want to play for England."

Is that the case? Then **** off.

Full source article: The Guardian, July 2005 Still relevant today.

Forgot to add them to my list in the England/Germany thread, as I lumped them in with the FA, forgetting that the FA has no control over it's illegitimate spawn.

[edit] Relevance to the Capello thread - I think it was quite clear that the players had far more respect for themselves than for their manager or their country. Against egos massaged weekly by the popular press and stratospheric earnings to fulfil your every whim, I don't think Capello stood a chance. His players, ultimately, have no heart.

[Exile]

Newsnight's Economics editor talks a lot of sense here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/paulmason/

Germany 4 - England 1. Why were England so poor?

It all goes back to the basic truth of modern tournament football: the well-coached sides win things. Now everybody can defend you have to be able to defend, break, find space but above all - in a tournament - adapt to new conditions like a team. You have to be a learning organism.

This is what Capello tried to teach England: to play like a squad, adapt like a squad. But all that happened was that some of the players attempted a rebellion against his system. That is no surprise because it is exactly what happened with France as well. Italy too went home because they could not or would not play the system the manager wanted to play.

Having tried and failed to impose their own system on Capello, the players then lost morale, self-belief and skill.

In the case of England and France this dissent and player power reflects the huge problem of trying to make millionaire club stars play to a system they don't like. In the case of Italy, the "terror in the legs" phenomenon was probably the result of a similar issue. It's not a problem in club football because players get bought by managers with an exact idea of their skills and on-pitch role, so they rarely have to involuntarily adapt.

Maybe in this World Cup we've seen the first real triumph of the economics of modern football over skill and organisation: the triumph of a club-first, nation-last mentality and individualism over teamwork.

Capello did his best to kill the player power culture that was evident last time: the self-selecting team, the WAGs, etc. But it simply resurfaced in the form of failing motivation and failing skill. This in turn reflects England's weak domestic skills base that's resulted from the unrestricted use of foreign money and foreign players.

If you look at the teams that had very little talent but were well coached eventually they too fell apart against teams that had both: Ghana beat the USA for this reason, and for the same reason the next three games are a cert. Argentina, Holland and Brazil should go through. So Capello was not wrong to try to impart system and team discipline to England. Even if he chose the wrong system (4-4-2) we will never know, because England never won themselves the breathing space to try 4-4-1-1 in a competitive game.

The whole English FA now looks very exposed as a result of this poor showing. They failed miserably to keep control of Sven or the players in 2006. Their remedy was to appoint a disciplinarian who could at least control the players and who seemed to get the best out of them until they faced world class opposition.

But if you look at what's wrong with English football it starts with the junior game, where there's a horrendously physical and low-skill philosophy preached; then, for some reason, all the clever people get weeded out by the club system so that the words "intelligent, inventive England player" are impossible to write; finally the money pouring into the English premiership in the form of leveraged club buyouts allows club managers to buy their way out of having to train and develop English talent and we only find out once every four years what is wrong.

England's outstanding badness in World Cup 2010 must be a symptom of something bigger: the fact that we've got the most expensive, highest leveraged club system - and that none of our players play outside it - must have contributed to the weakening of commitment to the national colours, the evisceration of upcoming talent, the creation of an unmanageable team of frightened individuals, each of whom will now be dictating a valedictory ghost-written column to their chosen tabloid newspaper before getting on with life as a millionaire.

Like failed bankers they will pay no penalty for failure other than public opprobium and, as everybody in high finance knows, you can live with that as long as you own a Lamborghini.

Basically, we've just seen the Lehman Brothers of football and it was not pretty.

That deserves it's own thread. Exquisite summary.

[longdogs]

That deserves it's own thread. Exquisite summary.

Feel free to split it from the original thread!

[Pedagogue]

Newsnight's Economics editor talks a lot of sense here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/paulmason/

Germany 4 - England 1. Why were England so poor?

... the fact that we've got the most expensive, highest leveraged club system - and that none of our players play outside it - must have contributed to the weakening of commitment to the national colours, the evisceration of upcoming talent, the creation of an unmanageable team of frightened individuals ...

The validity of that point is rather undermined by the fact that ALL 23 players in the German squad play in their own domestic Bundesliga.

[Exile]

Newsnight's Economics editor talks a lot of sense here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/paulmason/

Germany 4 - England 1. Why were England so poor?

... the fact that we've got the most expensive, highest leveraged club system - and that none of our players play outside it - must have contributed to the weakening of commitment to the national colours, the evisceration of upcoming talent, the creation of an unmanageable team of frightened individuals ...

The validity of that point is rather undermined by the fact that ALL 23 players in the German squad play in their own domestic Bundesliga.

Counterpoint: German players are mostly surrounded by other German players, so their failings are apparent immediately, not covered up by their talented overseas team-mates sweeping up behind them. Germany also introduced a decent youth system 10 years ago, after their dodgy Euro 2000 campaign. Investing in their future appears to have paid off.

[Exile]

One more comment. What happened to the much-maligned MacLaren after he was dumped by England?

He managed FC Twente to their first-ever Eredivise title, and is now the first ever English manager in the Bundesliga (with Wolfsburg). Obviously it was all his fault England were terrible under him, same as it was Sven's fault before that. Perhaps now we can stop laying the blame entirely at the manager's door every time things turn sour.

[Neuromantic]

I blame the way football is played in this country. Pathetic, rubbish, tactically inept, mindless kick and rush football. We are an embarassment - and an absolute shambles.

Capello is NOT a bad manager. that was near enough the same side that waltzed through the qualifiers. Quite simply, the over rated, over played, over hyped morons playing in that glorious white shirt should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. What a pathetic bunch of 'footballers'.

We have hyped the likes of Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney to be 'world class'..no..they are premiership class - which means they take advantage of slower players - but when it comes to the world stage, Rooney could not even lace Lionel Messi's boots, Gerrard should never be allowed to breathe the same air as Andres Iniesta.

If we are going to the win the world cup in the next 20 years, there needs to be a revolution of the type of football we play in this country. We need to produce skilful players with good technical ability (like most nations now), who look to keep the ball, and play triangles and will receive the ball under pressure. What we don't want is kick and rush football employed by sunday morning kids managers. If we do not do this, then we will be resigned to failures like today again.

The germans have done it brilliantly over the last 10 years. I watch the Bundesliga a lot, and I have seen the emergence of a short and attacking style of play in the last few years especially. The dutch have done the same since the 70's. The dutch incidentally (as have Germany) have rebuilt a side from scratch in the last few years - promoting their hungry young players into the international arena - that is what we need to do.

At the moment, the way football is in this country, we could not even dream of producing a player like Mesut Ozil.

For me we need to bring in the youth - in preparation for 4 years time:

Hart

G.Johnson Dawson Tomkins Bertrand

Milner Huddlestone Rodwell

Walcott Rooney A.Johnson

I would rather see a young and hungry team fight for England, than a bunch of over paid morons. I wish David Beckham was out there today - I think we missed his class and distinction on the pitch.

What a desperate state we are in...

[latviancheese]

Another person who believes football should only be played sideways, and the ball must never leave the floor.

I like all different style of football. Most countries play a particular way, and thus the players are brought up this way.

English football is a high tempo game. When was the last time we actually played this way in the national game? What the fudge is the point of trying to play like Spain with players who arent pin point passers?

I would say the fact most footballers are thrown on the scrapheap in this country if they aren't 6 foot and pacey is the biggest problem, not the way we play. We import too many pissy over rated foreign players too.

Football would be fudge boring if we all played like Spain wouldn't it? Contrasting styles make football what it is.

Triangles, fudge me. Id rather go and watch cricket.

[Pedagogue]

... I watch the Bundesliga a lot, and I have seen the emergence of a short and attacking style of play ...

You mean like the first German goal, last night?

[derbysaddler]

Newsnight's Economics editor talks a lot of sense here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/paulmason/

Germany 4 - England 1. Why were England so poor?

... the fact that we've got the most expensive, highest leveraged club system - and that none of our players play outside it - must have contributed to the weakening of commitment to the national colours, the evisceration of upcoming talent, the creation of an unmanageable team of frightened individuals ...

The validity of that point is rather undermined by the fact that ALL 23 players in the German squad play in their own domestic Bundesliga.

True, but it's not a problem for Argentina, Brazil and the Netherlands? many of their world cup players are based in overseas leagues.

Anyway, its clear that Capello has made some mistakes, but let's be honest, what can he do with a team that can only play one system and will throw a complete strop when asked to do something different?

[Neuromantic]

... I watch the Bundesliga a lot, and I have seen the emergence of a short and attacking style of play ...

You mean like the first German goal, last night?

I thought you were better than that.

[Neuromantic]

Newsnight's Economics editor talks a lot of sense here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/paulmason/

Germany 4 - England 1. Why were England so poor?

... the fact that we've got the most expensive, highest leveraged club system - and that none of our players play outside it - must have contributed to the weakening of commitment to the national colours, the evisceration of upcoming talent, the creation of an unmanageable team of frightened individuals ...

The validity of that point is rather undermined by the fact that ALL 23 players in the German squad play in their own domestic Bundesliga.

True, but it's not a problem for Argentina, Brazil and the Netherlands? many of their world cup players are based in overseas leagues.

Anyway, its clear that Capello has made some mistakes, but let's be honest, what can he do with a team that can only play one system and will throw a complete strop when asked to do something different?

I agree 100% Derby.

Can someone please tell me why they have a problem with the short passing game ???

Are they mad? Are you suggesting our 'brand' of football is as exciting and as aesthetic as the way the Spanish, Dutch, Argentinians and Brazilians play??????? I think that sums up why we won't win a world cup again.

[SheffieldSaddler]

I blame the way football is played in this country. Pathetic, rubbish, tactically inept, mindless kick and rush football. We are an embarassment - and an absolute shambles.

Capello is NOT a bad manager. that was near enough the same side that waltzed through the qualifiers. Quite simply, the over rated, over played, over hyped morons playing in that glorious white shirt should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. What a pathetic bunch of 'footballers'.

We have hyped the likes of Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney to be 'world class'..no..they are premiership class - which means they take advantage of slower players - but when it comes to the world stage, Rooney could not even lace Lionel Messi's boots, Gerrard should never be allowed to breathe the same air as Andres Iniesta.

If we are going to the win the world cup in the next 20 years, there needs to be a revolution of the type of football we play in this country. We need to produce skilful players with good technical ability (like most nations now), who look to keep the ball, and play triangles and will receive the ball under pressure. What we don't want is kick and rush football employed by sunday morning kids managers. If we do not do this, then we will be resigned to failures like today again.

The germans have done it brilliantly over the last 10 years. I watch the Bundesliga a lot, and I have seen the emergence of a short and attacking style of play in the last few years especially. The dutch have done the same since the 70's. The dutch incidentally (as have Germany) have rebuilt a side from scratch in the last few years - promoting their hungry young players into the international arena - that is what we need to do.

At the moment, the way football is in this country, we could not even dream of producing a player like Mesut Ozil.

For me we need to bring in the youth - in preparation for 4 years time:

Hart

G.Johnson Dawson Tomkins Bertrand

Milner Huddlestone Rodwell

Walcott Rooney A.Johnson

I would rather see a young and hungry team fight for England, than a bunch of over paid morons. I wish David Beckham was out there today - I think we missed his class and distinction on the pitch.

What a desperate state we are in...

Just a quick question then.
If our football is so bad, how come the teams from the Premiership always do well in the Champions League?
Do not these players/teams play the football you so want us to move away from?

[Neuromantic]

I blame the way football is played in this country. Pathetic, rubbish, tactically inept, mindless kick and rush football. We are an embarassment - and an absolute shambles.

Capello is NOT a bad manager. that was near enough the same side that waltzed through the qualifiers. Quite simply, the over rated, over played, over hyped morons playing in that glorious white shirt should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. What a pathetic bunch of 'footballers'.

We have hyped the likes of Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney to be 'world class'..no..they are premiership class - which means they take advantage of slower players - but when it comes to the world stage, Rooney could not even lace Lionel Messi's boots, Gerrard should never be allowed to breathe the same air as Andres Iniesta.

If we are going to the win the world cup in the next 20 years, there needs to be a revolution of the type of football we play in this country. We need to produce skilful players with good technical ability (like most nations now), who look to keep the ball, and play triangles and will receive the ball under pressure. What we don't want is kick and rush football employed by sunday morning kids managers. If we do not do this, then we will be resigned to failures like today again.

The germans have done it brilliantly over the last 10 years. I watch the Bundesliga a lot, and I have seen the emergence of a short and attacking style of play in the last few years especially. The dutch have done the same since the 70's. The dutch incidentally (as have Germany) have rebuilt a side from scratch in the last few years - promoting their hungry young players into the international arena - that is what we need to do.

At the moment, the way football is in this country, we could not even dream of producing a player like Mesut Ozil.

For me we need to bring in the youth - in preparation for 4 years time:

Hart

G.Johnson Dawson Tomkins Bertrand

Milner Huddlestone Rodwell

Walcott Rooney A.Johnson

I would rather see a young and hungry team fight for England, than a bunch of over paid morons. I wish David Beckham was out there today - I think we missed his class and distinction on the pitch.

What a desperate state we are in...

Just a quick question then.
If our football is so bad, how come the teams from the Premiership always do well in the Champions League?
Do not these players/teams play the football you so want us to move away from?

Who has won the champions league twice in the last two years? Funny how that has coincided with their European Championship win...and their status as favourites....

The other favourites for the World Cup are Argentina and Brazil. We could not even shine their boots.

I think you miss the distinction I am trying to make though in all honesty. It is all well and good having strong club teams - however when those club teams are in the MAJORITY NOT ENGLISH - then you have a problem - a serious problem.

Let's look at the two winners of the Spanish and English leagues.

Chelsea - Terry and Cole (Joe Cole is now a free agent)
Barcelona - Valdes, Pique, Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Pedro - and have now signed Villa (investing in SPANISH talent).

Hmmm - I see the difference. Do you?

[SheffieldSaddler]

Who has won the champions league twice in the last two years? Funny how that has coincided with their European Championship win...and their status as favourites....

The other favourites for the World Cup are Argentina and Brazil. We could not even shine their boots.

I think you miss the distinction I am trying to make though in all honesty. It is all well and good having strong club teams - however when those club teams are in the MAJORITY NOT ENGLISH - then you have a problem - a serious problem.

Let's look at the two winners of the Spanish and English leagues.

Chelsea - Terry and Cole (Joe Cole is now a free agent)
Barcelona - Valdes, Pique, Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Pedro - and have now signed Villa (investing in SPANISH talent).

Hmmm - I see the difference. Do you?

So are you now suggesting we have a cap on foreign players (which of course would be totally illegal) in the Premiership?

[Duke]

Capello's press conference is arranged for 13.30 BBC news are covering the event .

[latviancheese]

I have no problem with "passing" football. I just dont think England should be playing it.

Personally i find it boring when teams get a goal and then proceed to playing "passing" football, by passing it around the back 4 for 85 minutes. So exciting. Not.

[tinned]

I would rather see a young and hungry team fight for England, than a bunch of over paid morons. I wish David Beckham was out there today - I think we missed his class and distinction on the pitch.

I agree with a lot of your points but I can't believe you said those two sentences.

[derbysaddler]

Who has won the champions league twice in the last two years? Funny how that has coincided with their European Championship win...and their status as favourites....

The other favourites for the World Cup are Argentina and Brazil. We could not even shine their boots.

I think you miss the distinction I am trying to make though in all honesty. It is all well and good having strong club teams - however when those club teams are in the MAJORITY NOT ENGLISH - then you have a problem - a serious problem.

Let's look at the two winners of the Spanish and English leagues.

Chelsea - Terry and Cole (Joe Cole is now a free agent)
Barcelona - Valdes, Pique, Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Pedro - and have now signed Villa (investing in SPANISH talent).

Hmmm - I see the difference. Do you?

So are you now suggesting we have a cap on foreign players (which of course would be totally illegal) in the Premiership?

No, he's suggesting that perhaps English clubs should invest more time in developing players from England.

[aaaae]

I have no problem with "passing" football. I just dont think England should be playing it.

Personally i find it boring when teams get a goal and then proceed to playing "passing" football, by passing it around the back 4 for 85 minutes. So exciting. Not.

If England don't learn to play "passing" football we are doomed to watch the same fiasco every time England play in an International tournament.

[Duke]

Capello says he wants to stay on , the FA will decide his future in 2 weeks time , if he stays on he realizes changes will have to be made and he will look at younger players .

He went on to say the players were physically and mentally tied for this world cup , on 442 formation Fabio said yes you could change it bit its no good if the players don't perform. on a winter break Capello is in favour .

[saddlersam]

Capello says he wants to stay on , the FA will decide his future in 2 weeks time , if he stays on he realizes changes will have to be made and he will look at younger players .

If I was Fabio, after being told I would have to wait 2 weeks for a decision on my job, I'd tell them to stick it. He still has his dignity.

Wait until 'Arry comes in and gets his dream job, then you'll see how much we'd miss Capello.

[Duke]

I reckon Capello wants a full vote of confidence from the FA and is prepared to wait for it .
both manager and the FA must to consider are the players fully behind him after events in South Africa . I think its best all round to wait a couple of weeks and not rush into any rash decisions and to find our why it went so badly wrong.

[We-ARE-Walsall]

Capello says he wants to stay on , the FA will decide his future in 2 weeks time , if he stays on he realizes changes will have to be made and he will look at younger players .

If I was Fabio, after being told I would have to wait 2 weeks for a decision on my job, I'd tell them to stick it. He still has his dignity.

Wait until 'Arry comes in and gets his dream job, then you'll see how much we'd miss Capello.

You think he would do worse ? I'm sorry,but there is no worse than what has happened in my opinion. We may just as well have stayed at home, than not bother turning up at all. I don't blame Cappello (completely) the players are a bunch of (insert naughty word) but I fail to see why we should pay so much for a foreign manager, who in reality hasn't bought us on one little bit.