Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
Reports and reaction from the 2009-10 season as Walsall finished 10th in League 1
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Pedagogue - Board Pedant
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
No doubt Nick Mashiter will be dusting off all of his "game of two halves" clichés for Monday's Excuse & Dingle but it cannot be denied that we saw two different Walsall teams today. The names and numbers were the same throughout but the performances were chalk and cheese. In the first half, our performance was as dire as it has been in recent seasons - back to the Merscum days, in fact. I don't know what Hutchings and O'Connor said at half-time but it had the desired effect. Perhaps they threatened to tell Santa that all the team had been naughty boys?
Ince - not at his commanding best. With Hughes missing, this is when you would expect a seasoned international player to take command - but, no, he dithered and hesitated and this uncertainty spread to his defence. Could/should have done better on their first goal - weak wrists, palming the ball out to the Orient player.
Weston - like his team-mates, he improved after the interval but his distribution is still poor.
Smith - dodgy first half, good second half
Vincent - I'm reluctant to criticise Vincent too much as I guess he hasn't played much in central defence, recently.
Sansara - see Weston comments, above. Shows all of the classic signs of lack of confidence by having an extra (unnecessary) touch on the ball to "make sure" but, as a consequence, gets caught in possession.
Till & Richards - ideally, wide men should have pace but this is what Tilly and Wendy lack - specifically pace over the first two or three yards - a "burst" which takes a player clear of his opponent and gives him that vital advantage. If poor opponents stand off them and give them a couple of yards then both are more than capable of delivering good quality crosses. Good defenders won't do this but today's lot did in the second half.
Mattis & Bradley - quite how Mattis avoided being cautioned, I'll never know. I suppose that the referee "cut him some slack" as he was captain. His hot-headed tackling will injure some-one soon. I felt sorry for both of them as the so-called off-the-ball movement of our wide players and strikers consisted of standing hiding behind opponents instead of offering themselves as targets for a pass during the first half. Matters improved considerably after the interval.
Deeney & Byfield - both worked very hard and were probably our two best players. Byfield will have nightmares about the "one-on-one" sitter that he missed, near the end.
Quite simply, we made a poor Orient team look like world-beaters in the first half but the second half performance gave a big hint of what the team is really capable - WHEN IT TRIES!
Notes to Hutchings:-
1) You are allowed to bring on substitutes, to freshen things up a bit, you know.
2) Next time, give them the half-time bollocking BEFORE the match. :twisted:
P.S. Doesn't Noddy Holder look old? :mrgreen:
Ince - not at his commanding best. With Hughes missing, this is when you would expect a seasoned international player to take command - but, no, he dithered and hesitated and this uncertainty spread to his defence. Could/should have done better on their first goal - weak wrists, palming the ball out to the Orient player.
Weston - like his team-mates, he improved after the interval but his distribution is still poor.
Smith - dodgy first half, good second half
Vincent - I'm reluctant to criticise Vincent too much as I guess he hasn't played much in central defence, recently.
Sansara - see Weston comments, above. Shows all of the classic signs of lack of confidence by having an extra (unnecessary) touch on the ball to "make sure" but, as a consequence, gets caught in possession.
Till & Richards - ideally, wide men should have pace but this is what Tilly and Wendy lack - specifically pace over the first two or three yards - a "burst" which takes a player clear of his opponent and gives him that vital advantage. If poor opponents stand off them and give them a couple of yards then both are more than capable of delivering good quality crosses. Good defenders won't do this but today's lot did in the second half.
Mattis & Bradley - quite how Mattis avoided being cautioned, I'll never know. I suppose that the referee "cut him some slack" as he was captain. His hot-headed tackling will injure some-one soon. I felt sorry for both of them as the so-called off-the-ball movement of our wide players and strikers consisted of standing hiding behind opponents instead of offering themselves as targets for a pass during the first half. Matters improved considerably after the interval.
Deeney & Byfield - both worked very hard and were probably our two best players. Byfield will have nightmares about the "one-on-one" sitter that he missed, near the end.
Quite simply, we made a poor Orient team look like world-beaters in the first half but the second half performance gave a big hint of what the team is really capable - WHEN IT TRIES!
Notes to Hutchings:-
1) You are allowed to bring on substitutes, to freshen things up a bit, you know.
2) Next time, give them the half-time bollocking BEFORE the match. :twisted:
P.S. Doesn't Noddy Holder look old? :mrgreen:
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Neuromantic - Site Addict
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
Very poor performance bar 20 second half minutes. The people who seriously think we are play off contenders are mental.
The game was made interesting by good company, my dad, Percie and Fray bentos is god.
The game was made interesting by good company, my dad, Percie and Fray bentos is god.
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scott_powell - Site Addict
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
We shudda won.
Till and Deeney played very well in the second half
Weston and Sansara are shocking
Fair play to Vincent who I thought played very well at centre back
2 points lost
Till and Deeney played very well in the second half
Weston and Sansara are shocking
Fair play to Vincent who I thought played very well at centre back
2 points lost
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scott_powell - Site Addict
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
bleed_red_n_white wrote:Just back we should of won it Byfield one on one at the end tryed to chip there keeper and kicked it straight into his hands, we were awful first half and threw the kitchen sink at them second, special shout to Weston who is awful.
Im surprised you didnt say Deeney was useless
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yoda - Site Addict
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
Could have been worse - Orient missed from 2 yards out towards the end!
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Banksy - UTS Veteran
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
Netan Sansara is a terrible excuse for a footballer. I dont care if he is still young and learning he needs to learn how to play football.
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geoffwhiting - Site Addict
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
Clearly on the day the draw was the fair result, but I am very very unhappy with it. Once we equalised with goals that were never on the cards first half, I thought we would definitely go on to win it, but we let Orient back into the game again as we went off the boil instead of pressing on for the winner.
Agreed that Byfield had a golden chance to win it, but Orient missed at least two close-range sitters in the second half, so to say we should have won is hardly truthful - after all, THEY could have won it too with either of those chances, and the first of them would have made it 3-1, which could (and should) have killed the game for us.
I can't believe CH kept the same eleven on the pitch throughout, and by doing that I think he robbed us of winning the most winnable game of the Xmas period. If we reproduce anything like that first half display against Norwich and Charlton, they will embarrass us and there'll be no coming back.
I foresee a win-less Xmas period now. :(
Agreed that Byfield had a golden chance to win it, but Orient missed at least two close-range sitters in the second half, so to say we should have won is hardly truthful - after all, THEY could have won it too with either of those chances, and the first of them would have made it 3-1, which could (and should) have killed the game for us.
I can't believe CH kept the same eleven on the pitch throughout, and by doing that I think he robbed us of winning the most winnable game of the Xmas period. If we reproduce anything like that first half display against Norwich and Charlton, they will embarrass us and there'll be no coming back.
I foresee a win-less Xmas period now. :(
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scott_powell - Site Addict
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
Banksy wrote:Netan Sansara is a terrible excuse for a footballer. I dont care if he is still young and learning he needs to learn how to play football.
Bansky, it is official. That is the most sence to ever leave your lips
See you at footy tommorow :)
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SheffieldSaddler - Site Addict
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
Deano_Saddler wrote:Very poor result against a very poor side today. Both goals were just poor sloppy defending. I'd actually take the point now considering we were 2-0 down.
1st half was probably the worst i've seen us all season, didn't like it when the fans started to get on their backs and cheering sarcastically when we did something right because that does not help the situation at all, getting behind them would have been alot better.
2nd half we were alot better, Deeney played the best i've seen him all season taken both goals well particularly the 1st.
Also thought Till was actually a real threat in the 2nd half too which i was happily surprised about. Byfield missed a sitter towards the end, just lost him concentration i think.
Overall a poor performance against a team we should have beaten comfortably.
So according to your quote on another thread -
"whyy, i don't think we are that far away from a team capable of getting into the playoffs, i think we could still sneak it without even adding to the squad. We have showed a few times this season that we are quite capable of picking up points away and if we can maintain a good home record then who knows"
Its not looking so good after today then?
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Exile - Jobsworth
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
Two points dropped. Disappointed.
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
It really should have been 0-0 at half time.Both sides were poor but we just gifted them 2 goals thanks to Ince and Mattis.
Totally different story second half and we really should have won the game.Saying that both sides missed sitters so overall a draw was about right.
Once again I looked to our manager to make a change in order to win the game.once again i'm left with the same opinion that he really is not watching the same game as the vast majority of fans.
Totally different story second half and we really should have won the game.Saying that both sides missed sitters so overall a draw was about right.
Once again I looked to our manager to make a change in order to win the game.once again i'm left with the same opinion that he really is not watching the same game as the vast majority of fans.
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cyclothymic - UTS Legend
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
First 45 we were not even there
Second 45 we were pretty feckin' good
So I guess a draw is a fair result
Deeney is a far better footballer than most on here would have predicted two years ago
Byfield is a legend - HE tried throughout the first half when all else around him was falling and failing
Something is pretty feckin' wrong with Walsall fc that they can not play for 45 then after a team talk play for the next 45
Sort it out Chris - that is what a manager's job is ark!
Second 45 we were pretty feckin' good
So I guess a draw is a fair result
Deeney is a far better footballer than most on here would have predicted two years ago
Byfield is a legend - HE tried throughout the first half when all else around him was falling and failing
Something is pretty feckin' wrong with Walsall fc that they can not play for 45 then after a team talk play for the next 45
Sort it out Chris - that is what a manager's job is ark!
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cyclothymic - UTS Legend
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
Bangor Cymru Saddler wrote:Very poor performance bar 20 second half minutes. The people who seriously think we are play off contenders are mental.
The game was made interesting by good company, my dad, Percie and Fray bentos is god.
You were at the match and avoided me???
See you next Tuesday :wink:
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
I wasnt at the game today but cant understand why Hutch would have played Vincent at centre half??? He isnt tall enough or comanding enough to play there. Surely it would have made more sense to play Weston alongside Smith and brought Taundry/Westlake in at right back??
I just cannot understand Hutchings at the moment.
I just cannot understand Hutchings at the moment.
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Duke - Site Addict
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
when will we learn a football match lasts for 90 plus minutes :twisted:
very disappoining
very disappoining
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scott_powell - Site Addict
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
Jockey wrote:I wasnt at the game today but cant understand why Hutch would have played Vincent at centre half??? He isnt tall enough or comanding enough to play there. Surely it would have made more sense to play Weston alongside Smith and brought Taundry/Westlake in at right back??
I just cannot understand Hutchings at the moment.
Well Vincent played very well sooo .... :roll: Maybe you should have been there to comment
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
Spare a thought for 5 Torquay fans who, upon reaching Birmingham New Street today and discovering their game against Crewe had been called off, decided to come and watch the Saddlers vs. Orient rather than miss out seeing any football! I hope they made it past half time and our thanks to them for swelling the attendance.
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geoffwhiting - Site Addict
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
Oxsall wrote:Spare a thought for 5 Torquay fans who, upon reaching Birmingham New Street today and discovering their game against Crewe had been called off, decided to come and watch the Saddlers vs. Orient rather than miss out seeing any football! I hope they made it past half time and our thanks to them for swelling the attendance.
They still didn't see much football though ! :D
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
Vincent has played centre half a few times before, rather him that pissy Weston.
Till helped set up two goals, how did that happen :?
Just saw the goals on the telly, we both missed sitters, one each.
Till helped set up two goals, how did that happen :?
Just saw the goals on the telly, we both missed sitters, one each.
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King Crimson - Poet Laureate
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
scott_powell wrote:We shudda won.
Till and Deeney played very well in the second half
Weston and Sansara are shocking
Fair play to Vincent who I thought played very well at centre back
2 points lost
That's a fair reflection for me. I thought Smith was well and truly found out today. He's not any better than average, I'm afraid. Both full backs were very poor all game I thought.
And a note for the Richards baiters who sit behind me. He's not responsible for all the woes that befall us. Or the Kennedy assasination. Or 9/11. Or global warming. I would say that half the team played worse than him today (Sansara, Weston, Bradley, Smith, Ince). He played some decent balls in and with better finishing could have claimed half a dozen assists.
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Fray Bentos is God! - Site Addict
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
King Crimson wrote:scott_powell wrote:We shudda won.
Till and Deeney played very well in the second half
Weston and Sansara are shocking
Fair play to Vincent who I thought played very well at centre back
2 points lost
That's a fair reflection for me. I thought Smith was well and truly found out today. He's not any better than average, I'm afraid. Both full backs were very poor all game I thought.
And a note for the Richards baiters who sit behind me. He's not responsible for all the woes that befall us. Or the Kennedy assasination. Or 9/11. Or global warming. I would say that half the team played worse than him today (Sansara, Weston, Bradley, Smith, Ince). He played some decent balls in and with better finishing could have claimed half a dozen assists.
I actually thought only Wendy and Byfield could come off at half time with their heads up.
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
Cant believe how Weston blatantly cant be bothered any more. Shame, I used to rate him.
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
I used to rate Weston, but now he fills me with hatred. The man is a fool.
[post moderated]
[post moderated]
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chestersaddler - Site Addict
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
latviancheese wrote:I used to rate Weston, but now he fills me with hatred. The man is a pratt.
Calm down dear :)
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Neil Ravenscroft - Site Admin
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
I think you misunderstand the situation. Think back to that first goal yesterday. That was not down to any individual (although Sansara may have been able to do better getting to the eventual scorer and Ince might also have done better), but was, from the start of the break, an example of bad TEAM defending. We are leaving our fullbacks over exposed, yet, at the same time, don't seem to push the wide men forward when attacking either. The set up and organisation of the side just don't sem right. That's why we are letting so many goals in. The other criticism of Weston is his distribution, but, to be frank, I think that's down to team orders as well. All of the back four continually launch it long. I think Hutchings is obsessed by having some pace up front and has told them to try and hit the strikers down the inside forward channels as early as possible. We never seem to play through the midfield. The result? We are continually gving possession away.
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WFC_Rob - Site Addict
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
Neil Ravenscroft wrote:I think you misunderstand the situation. Think back to that first goal yesterday. That was not down to any individual (although Sansara may have been able to do better getting to the eventual scorer and Ince might also have done better), but was, from the start of the break, an example of bad TEAM defending. We are leaving our fullbacks over exposed, yet, at the same time, don't seem to push the wide men forward when attacking either. The set up and organisation of the side just don't sem right. That's why we are letting so many goals in. The other criticism of Weston is his distribution, but, to be frank, I think that's down to team orders as well. All of the back four continually launch it long. I think Hutchings is obsessed by having some pace up front and has told them to try and hit the strikers down the inside forward channels as early as possible. We never seem to play through the midfield. The result? We are continually gving possession away.
Spot on, Neil.
Successful teams above League Two level are usually made up of players who are comfortable on the ball. The ratio of those sort of players in our team to those who just can't pass to a red shirt must be about level.
In terms of positioning and ball retention, I thought Vincent looked a class above the rest yesterday. The likes of Sansara and Weston ought to have a look at him and realise that it's not that difficult to play a simple pass now and again.
Their first goal was purely down to a lack of organisation from our point of view. Weston had pushed too far forward to risk giving the ball away and then Smith was far too slow to get across and cover the space he'd left behind. As a result, McGleish picked his spot, and there was little Ince could do other than push the ball right into Jarvis' path.
The plus points from yesterday are that Deeney continues to improve as an all-round player, Byfield seems to enjoy playing up front with him & Till had his best game in a Walsall shirt. Vincent also looked very tidy at the back.
The rest of the side were patchy. That's why we'll be rooted around mid-table all season.
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Wyrley_saddler - UTS Legend
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
Byfield felt like crying after defeat:
Darren Byfield wrote:
Sat in the changing room n I feel like crying,just missed a sitter,we wud have won 3-2,lads done well 2 come bk from 2-0 down
5:12 PM Dec 19th from UberTwitter
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Exile - Jobsworth
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
Wyrley_saddler wrote:Byfield felt like crying after defeat:Darren Byfield wrote:
Sat in the changing room n I feel like crying,just missed a sitter,we wud have won 3-2,lads done well 2 come bk from 2-0 down
5:12 PM Dec 19th from UberTwitter
A bit off topic - can you imagine Roy W on twitter? :D
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tinned - Site Addict
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
First time on since the game. Any ideas of play offs are nothing more than fanciful fantasies of those that refuse to accept we're nowhere near good enough.
Hutchings hasn't got a clue when it comes to substitutions or changing games. Pointless removing him but forget going up with him in charge.
Weston is pub team clogger. Richards is cluelss. Bradley, well Bradley, you'd have more steel in midfield if you played a jelly baby rather than Bradley. Well out of his depth.
Hutchings hasn't got a clue when it comes to substitutions or changing games. Pointless removing him but forget going up with him in charge.
Weston is pub team clogger. Richards is cluelss. Bradley, well Bradley, you'd have more steel in midfield if you played a jelly baby rather than Bradley. Well out of his depth.
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Sadders - UTS Legend
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Re: Leyton Orient (H) League 1 Saturday 19/12/09.
Richards, Sansara, Bradley and in the first half Till are totally inept and shocking footballers. Weston has very poor distribution but his defending his better than Sansara's which leaves him in the just "averagely poor" box. First half was shocking. 3 of 4 of our midfield have to be the worst midfielders in the division.
Till's second half performance was against a player Charlie Daniels, that is a right footed central midfielder by trade and is being asked to play at LB by Geraint Williams as they have literally no-one else - the orient fans on the football forum deem him the worst left back in the clubs history. Therefore, Till's performance doesn't reallt effect the fact that he's a bottom half league 2 player at best. Sadly he'll no doubt play at Bristol now as Hutchings "play well and keep your shirt" idea will shine through, and his love for Richards means that we probably wont even see a fit Steve Jones at brizzle, in an important game that we need to win to have any hope of anymore than midtable. Mean while Hutchings love affair with Richards is seemingly allowing the career of our best young player Nicholls to rot away. Poor management and he will no doubt be off very soon - very bad news, he's our best young player.
Things were better in the second half. Deeney and Byfield were excellent, Byfield though sadly missing a one on one and having a header saved by Jones (the time wasting git). Mattis played well, borke up play and started most attacks although his all for one lunge style of tackle will result in serious injury or a straight red card VERY shortly. The back 4 all looked dodgy, thought Vincen'ts marking for both goals was pretty sub standard but he is a full back so i'll forgive him. Smith did ok & bar the first goal Ince was reasonable.
I see another winless christmas time coming up.
Till's second half performance was against a player Charlie Daniels, that is a right footed central midfielder by trade and is being asked to play at LB by Geraint Williams as they have literally no-one else - the orient fans on the football forum deem him the worst left back in the clubs history. Therefore, Till's performance doesn't reallt effect the fact that he's a bottom half league 2 player at best. Sadly he'll no doubt play at Bristol now as Hutchings "play well and keep your shirt" idea will shine through, and his love for Richards means that we probably wont even see a fit Steve Jones at brizzle, in an important game that we need to win to have any hope of anymore than midtable. Mean while Hutchings love affair with Richards is seemingly allowing the career of our best young player Nicholls to rot away. Poor management and he will no doubt be off very soon - very bad news, he's our best young player.
Things were better in the second half. Deeney and Byfield were excellent, Byfield though sadly missing a one on one and having a header saved by Jones (the time wasting git). Mattis played well, borke up play and started most attacks although his all for one lunge style of tackle will result in serious injury or a straight red card VERY shortly. The back 4 all looked dodgy, thought Vincen'ts marking for both goals was pretty sub standard but he is a full back so i'll forgive him. Smith did ok & bar the first goal Ince was reasonable.
I see another winless christmas time coming up.
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