Thanks very much for that LS. I really appreciate reading detailed accounts like that.
You say that you have not seen the TV highlights - do you know that the BBC site now has a much better highlights service than the clunky Virgin package we had last season. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 207650.stm
From the highlights Ince seems to be at fault for the first goal - it was a gentle cross that he could easily have taken about three yards from his goal line - also Westlake was in the middle after a Charlton attack, so it was Till who tried to stop the cross being made. At the second goal one wonders where on earth Vincent was.
Totally agree with you about Deeney.
Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.
Reports and reaction from the 2009-10 season as Walsall finished 10th in League 1
- Bernie
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saddlerJP - Glitterati
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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.
Deeney hasn't had the silver spoon treatment most footballers have had and is more grounded. At accrington, all the players walked off expect for deeney who was trying to call them back to applaud the fans, most ignored him, especially Nicholls who wouldn't even turn round while Deeney was shouting at him to pay some respect the the hardy souls that got soaked to support them.
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Wyrley_saddler - UTS Legend
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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.
I have alot of time for Deeney. He was 'mistreated' under Mullen, being shoved out on the wing, taking alot stick from the fans, but still giving 110% every match. Now he is playing in his rightful position, playing alot better and still giving the same great work ethic. He seems to realy care about the fans which is nice to see as you don't see it that often nowadays. He is always one of the first to come over and applaud the fans, like mentioned above, at Accy, he was one of the only ones.
- latviancheese
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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.
Ive got alot of time for Deeney too, i might not think hes all that great as a player but he certainly has come on leaps and bounds in the last year or so.
At least he looks bothered.
At least he looks bothered.
- BathSaddler
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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.
leics_saddler wrote:Disclaimer: this was my first match of the season and so I can only say it how I saw it, certainly not how any journalist saw it. I have not watched the TV highlights.
Make no mistake, this was a poor effort. Charlton were able to brush us aside without breaking sweat. It's only their utter complacency that saved us from a mauling. The E&S has it spot on and the static first half was a shameful display. We played better in the second half and still could have come away with a scarcely deserved point.
Another thing that has become apparent is the excellent points made by a number of individuals from previous games, Neil regarding formation and MMF's comparison of Parkin and Ricketts to name but two. I'll do player by player first though:
Ince: standard
Westlake: struggled
Hughes [c]: excellent
Smith: excellent
Vincent: abysmal
Till: Adrian Thorpe
Richards: poor
Mattis: contributed
Jones: blameless
Deeney: excellent
Parkin: statuesque
Subs:
Taundry: contributed
Nicholls: didn't
Going, from the back:
To me Ince was pretty blameless for both goals. His kicking was suspect as ever and Charlton (including the crowd) soon twigged it. The opening goal has caused some debate (even amongst the players it appears) but the fact remains that if there are two players unmarked at the far post to bundle the ball in, it's unfair to expect Ince to deal with that, even discounting that one of them appeared to jump on him. I was surprised to see the goal stand.
Hughes and Smith were excellent and it's their partnership that will stop us from sliding all the way down the league this season. They put in countless blocks, tackles and headers. Hughes took his 'goal' superbly for a defender.
The fullbacks were a different story however as they came up against a team with ideas out wide. Westlake is a young lad and will have learned a lot. He must take some of the blame for the opener with a cross coming in from the Charlton left. Vincent is certainly old enough to know that he was roasted time and time again. Had he put in any tackles, he might have had more success. It wasn't as if he held play up at all by jockeying their winger Sam. Both goals were finished from the inside right position with players completely unmarked. If anyone can actually name a player Vincent marked or tackled I will give them five new English pounds. Let's be charitable and suggest the opening goal came because an offside trap went wrong. Where the hell was he for the second then?
In midfield, we have a bit of a problem in Richards, who looked like he'd just been given a 2yr contract. I would expect a midfielder at this level to be able to do two out of three of passing, running and tackling. He did none in the first half. His second half display was better with one or two crosses put in but that was it all game. Mattis consequently ended up chasing shadows for a lot of the game. He stuck to his game very well and looked a good player today.
Out wide, Till is exactly the sort of player I expected him to be. He flatters to deceive in patches, looking dangerous, but ultimately going through the motions with little sense of purpose. He faded today and I would expect this to be one of two stock performances with the other being the 'headless chicken' option. Jones looked to have a sense of purpose and in a poor first half looked our biggest threat. He is a winger/striker and spent most of time in the first half trying to back up Vincent. As Richards is better suited to this task, I would suggest his substitution was ultimately tactical, even if there were some words exchanged.
Deeney is a shining beacon is a sea of toss. Some posters have suggested he is of limited ability but willing and should be dropped. This is absolute horse plop. His attitude is not just good, it is absolutely outstanding. He was the one who led the attacking threat and workrate. At the end of the game he was the one player who led in applauding the away support, who rose to applaud him in turn. He ran himself ragged doing two people's work, harrying defenders and making the most of nothing in very Jorgesque way. He certainly has enough ability for this league and in a better team, I'd suggest he'd flourish.
Parkin could only be a shining beacon if he was set alight. Yes, he's scored two goals this year and hit the post yesterday, but that was strictly the sum total of his contribution. He is either unfit, extremely lacking in sharpness or lazy. His movement off the ball was nil and his inclusion leads to the chasm between forwards and midfield. I don't know if all of his early career goals came about as a result of golden chances presented on a silver platter, but he won't be getting that here. For the News of the World to award Deeney and him 5&6 is an absolute joke - 8&4 is far more accurate, as Vincent got 4.
Taundry did a lot to stiffen up midfield when coming on, despite taking an early knock. Nicholls did himself no favours and won't displace Parkin with this display. He lacked conviction after a bit of early huffing and puffing. A lazy last minute volley that ballooned over summed up his contribution.
The management do appear to have a bit about them and did make a good tactical change at half time to the team's benefit. However, this rigid 4-4-2 with two wide men isn't going to work with this personnel and there is little movement off the ball to give the required fluidity of play.
The officials were mediocre to poor, with one particularly impotent linesman. Baywatch blue showed of the referee's manly gut - er physique - and black culottes were very slimming to his fat ass.
Some people have questioned whether it is appropriate to expect anything from the game. This attitude isn't good enough from supporters or team alike. Should we just donate three points to save costs? The very least we can expect is a spirited and professional performance. One should compare this performance with that at Leicester 12 months ago. Deeney performed in a similar way to Jabo. Vincent and Westlake performed like Boertein and Palmer against good wingers. The difference is that between Ricketts and Parkin. Ricketts almost played a free role and linked up midfield and forward play by walking around and taking up intelligent positions, using the ball effectively.
Ultimately, little will matter when we finish in a mid-table position, but such a submissive display is very difficult to take and not likely to have anyone flooding back in a tearful homecoming.
Superb report, leicester. A very accurate report of events. I must have blanked Vincent's performance out of my imitial thoughts, but I do recall now that there were often two players trying to cover him throughout, and for someone of his experience, that is just not good enough.
I also entirely agree with your comments about supporters saying we should not expect anything from such a game. There will be teams at a similar resources level to us who will go to Charlton this season AND get a result. We did'nt because we looked from the off like we had no right to be there and seemed to be suffering an inferiority complex. Your description of "submissive" is completly right and there is no excuse for it.
- Bernie
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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.
Think back to January 2002. Walsall went to Charlton when they were in the Premier League and won 2-1 thanks to two goals from Jorge Leitao. The week before a limp display at West Bromwich had caused the great Ray Graydon to be sacked.
The point is that we should not be going into any match in this division, or indeed in any division, with the attitude that nobody can expect little Walsall to actually get anything out of these games. I am sure that Hutchings does not think that, and neither should the fans.
The point is that we should not be going into any match in this division, or indeed in any division, with the attitude that nobody can expect little Walsall to actually get anything out of these games. I am sure that Hutchings does not think that, and neither should the fans.
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Duke - Site Addict
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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.
We keep hearing how good our back 4 is , yes Westlake , Smith , Hughes and Vincent impressed me against Southend and Leeds nevertheless we conceded 2 goals in each game 2 more on saturday.
Our inability to keep the ball in midfield and our front men to hold up play is creating extra and at times constant pressure on the defenders . untill thats sorted will will continue to concede at an alarming rate add the fact that we are not creating chances and we have all the signs of a struggling side .
Wheather your playing Leeds , Charlton , Gillingham or Wycombe if don't keep enough of the ball or create chances you will not win games no matter how good the back 4 is.
Our inability to keep the ball in midfield and our front men to hold up play is creating extra and at times constant pressure on the defenders . untill thats sorted will will continue to concede at an alarming rate add the fact that we are not creating chances and we have all the signs of a struggling side .
Wheather your playing Leeds , Charlton , Gillingham or Wycombe if don't keep enough of the ball or create chances you will not win games no matter how good the back 4 is.
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tinned - Site Addict
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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.
Duke wrote:We keep hearing how good our back 4 is , yes Westlake , Smith , Hughes and Vincent impressed me against Southend and Leeds nevertheless we conceded 2 goals in each game 2 more on saturday.
Our inability to keep the ball in midfield and our front men to hold up play is creating extra and at times constant pressure on the defenders . untill thats sorted will will continue to concede at an alarming rate add the fact that we are not creating chances and we have all the signs of a struggling side .
Wheather your playing Leeds , Charlton , Gillingham or Wycombe if don't keep enough of the ball or create chances you will not win games no matter how good the back 4 is.
My, my, my. You know it's bad when Duke is down.
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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.
leics_saddler wrote:Parkin could only be a shining beacon if he was set alight.
Superb!!
'leics' - I thought your report was excellent too.
- leics_saddler
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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.
Thank you to those who offered kind words. It's most gratifying to hear my account described as 'accurate'.
Also thanks to Bernie, who reminds me that highlights are on BBC now. I'm still not used to that yet and keep forgetting.
Also thanks to Bernie, who reminds me that highlights are on BBC now. I'm still not used to that yet and keep forgetting.
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Exile - Jobsworth
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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.
Deeney could be the new Roper - solid workhorse, under-rated, yet good enough to be picked for ten years should he stay.
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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.
Exile wrote:Deeney could be the new Roper - solid workhorse, under-rated, yet good enough to be picked for ten years should he stay.
The phrase "damned with faint praise" comes to mind :)
- Bernie
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Re: Charlton Athletic (A) League 1 Saturday 22/8/09.
Exile wrote:Deeney could be the new Roper - solid workhorse, under-rated, yet good enough to be picked for ten years should he stay.
I wish he would stay for ten years, sadly he is already one of our longest serving players and is likely to be the next one out of the door. He has made 95 appearances for Walsall, which is more than any other outfield player at the club, so he is hardly an unknown quantity.
I am pleased to read that he is about to sign a new two year contract. That is good news, so well done to the club and to Deeney for coming to an agreement.
Roper was only under-rated by idiots, the vast majority of Walsall fans rated him as rather more than a workhorse all through his time at the club, just as most of us think Deeney is one of the better players in the side at present.
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