Preston (a) - League - 18th March 2003

[Andy]

By ANother Saddler (213.122.122.31) on Tuesday, March 18, 2003 - 08:34 pm: Edit

Sqaud for tonight's match, Lee's keeping faith, Wrack must still be ill by the looks of it, hopes he's back for Saturday what with Bazeley being suspended.

http://www.walsall-mad.co.uk/news/loadn ... W&id=94598

By Same Old Saddler (217.44.83.245) on Tuesday, March 18, 2003 - 09:35 pm: Edit

Why was Jimmy's brain left out of the squad?

By gray ellwood (81.131.81.36) on Tuesday, March 18, 2003 - 10:40 pm: Edit

Are you sure that we had any players out there tonight

By Exile (203.97.2.242) on Tuesday, March 18, 2003 - 10:53 pm: Edit

5-0. BBC teletext commentary suggested that we had quite of play, forced a lot forward but obviously, very obviously, failed to find the back of the net on every occasion.

Hopefully that will be the last result of that magnitude for some time to come, unless we're on the other end of it!

Cheers all,
Exile

By statto (81.77.149.43) on Tuesday, March 18, 2003 - 11:02 pm: Edit

according to a quick scan on soccerbase - walsall's heaviest league defeat for nine years, since losing 5-0 to Scunthorpe in 1992-93 season. is this correct?

By Jim (195.92.168.165) on Tuesday, March 18, 2003 - 11:12 pm: Edit

At least we scored 1 against Man Utd, how inconsistant can we get. Previously this year we have suffered a lot of 1 goal defeats suggesting that often we may have been unlucky or individual errors have cost us dear. Tonight though, how about disgusting, pathetic, useless, embarrassing. Just a few adjectives to get the ball rolling. If the players and manager cannot string two results together they might as well all feck off!

By freda greaves (195.93.49.12) on Tuesday, March 18, 2003 - 11:12 pm: Edit

Five goals shared.......somewhat enequally.

Still very confident we'll stop up.

By RushallSaddler (195.182.163.64) on Tuesday, March 18, 2003 - 11:22 pm: Edit

Sounded shocking on the radio - what the hell were the defence doing, did we have a defence - it didn't sound like it, midfield were no better, why didn't he change the formation like he was talking about doing, it back-fired on him for the Millwall game when he kept the same formation after two good away performances, it needed changing again tonight 4-4-2 is good at home but not so good away.
Unfortunately the other results (Brighton apart) didn't go too well for us, Dingles failed to deliver again, I see Crystal Palace lost at home, another team on a disappointing run of form, but can we capitalise on Saturday - we bloody well need to.

By Frank Stubbs (195.93.49.12) on Tuesday, March 18, 2003 - 11:38 pm: Edit

Just got back local game for me.Words fail me after what i have just watched.Walker after being red carded on saturday gave away a really stupid penalty,no way was the guy going to score but down he came......the rest they say his history,poss ofside for the 2nd Bazeley gave them the 3rd.I just wonder wether the players want Lee there no effort no pride no passion no guts.Lee would have been crucified whatever hed done tonight with a loss,we kept the same formation after a decent win and performance look what happened tonight?if we had changed the formation we would have changed a winning side ............christ knows
Starting to ramble so gonna go until i can be more rational
Tonight as hurt.

By Stu (195.92.67.68) on Tuesday, March 18, 2003 - 11:57 pm: Edit

You can't start blaming Lee and going on about formations.

Team does well at Bradford and Rotherham. He shows faith and belief in them by keeping the same team (Reading do fine with a 4-5-1 as have Burnley until late) and they are pants.
He changes back to a traditional 4-4-2, we're very good (apart from the first 10 and last 15 down to 10 men). He shows faith in them and keeps the same team.
Why should he go back to the side that were woeful vs Millwall. He did what any manager would, and should, do and keep a winning side.

If the players let him down then you can't blame him. If Walker goes down too early its not Lee's fault (he might have saved us some points this season, but I don't think I've seen him cost as many goals as well), we know Barras isnt a 1st division defender. You can't blame a manager for simple mistakes. By the sounds, we had chances at 2-0 to get ourselves into the game but we didn't take them.

And despite this, once again, everyone else really failed to capitalise. Remember, it doesn't matter if one of the bottom 4 makes a run, it needs 2 of the bottom 4 teams to string a run of results together and rely on us losing constantly for us to end up in the bottom 3.

We'll lose on Saturday (draw if we're lucky), lose at home to Pompey. But then we have an easier run of Coventry (H), Norwich (H), Grimsby (A) and Derby (H) before finishing off at Wendy who will be down before then!

•••• it may have been, but I'm coming to expect our inconsistency now.

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.49.12) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 12:21 am: Edit

Where are the Tony Barras supporters club now? sjlawton13? Aldridge Saddler? Welsh Saddler? ShifnalSaddler? Dave Roe? Cannock? Phil_G? Popperpancake?
Lets not forget that whatever player you play with this guy you are going to get murdered, whether it be Carbon, Roper or Hay, he will make them all luck like donkeys.
Cresswell murdered him tonight according to what I heard on the radio. How different it would have been if Roper or Hay would have been playing with Carbon.
The bloke is a liability, I would rather have Birch at centre half.

By Geordiesaddler (195.92.67.65) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 12:22 am: Edit

Problem I see is that after Saturday everybody else (I think?) plays twice before we kick a ball against Pompey. Quite concievably the gap could be down to a handfull of points with us having two games in hand, and that creates pressure. I wouldn't be in the least bit worried if we had Coventry a week on Saturday, but that game being put back, coupled with the late kick off against Pompey gives the bottom teams a chance to put the bite on, and unless we win on Saturday there's nothing we can do about it.

By Frank Stubbs (195.93.49.12) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 12:32 am: Edit

Somehow we have got to a find a way of not beating ourselves,nevermind what the others do.Knowing Walsall we will probably beat Palace although after what i have witnessed tonight i dont quite now how,at least Ropers back that is one positive at least.

By Pico (195.93.49.12) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 12:40 am: Edit

Just back from the game and only two words to describe it:

UTTER SHAMBLES!!

It is the first time since a 2-0 away defeat at Wigan I have left the ground early, and we have been laughing all the way back home in the car at just how bad we were.

I sat at the very back of the stand to get a clear view of the action, i.e the players movement and marking. The two things we were just awful at tonight.

It is the worst defensive display I have seen for years. Barras and Carbon looked little more than amatures. Zigor's distribution was shocking, O'connor's drive lacking, Pedro's crosses non existent. Then there is the two forwards. Their movement was terrible, they wouldn't show for the ball, they didn't lose their markers. Junior looks scared to jump, and his lack of fight and commitment is starting to concern me. His peformances away from home, like the whole team is just not good enough.

I think playing two 34/35 year old's in the centre of Midfield twice in the space of three days doesn't help. Samways apparantley only got out of the Bescot bath from Saturday's game 3 hours before kick off!!!.

How do we respond to this??.....This kind of showing is occuring too many times away from home for my liking. We just do not look like scoring. God help us on Saturday.

By popperpancake (81.79.41.232) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 12:50 am: Edit

Steady on Shef i'm not part of the barras fan club. I might of said he deserved to keep his place after a good performance but nothing else. And even if i was it's unconceivable to blame one player for that result. I didn't go and was pleased i didn't. Pathetic. Unbelievable. barclays. Etc.

By Paul G (62.31.220.94) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 01:07 am: Edit

Pico I think I watched a different game to you. This was awful yes but it was not another Stoke or Sheff Utd. There was pride and passion and there was an almost continuous drive from midfield and movement amongst the forwards which created probably more chances to score than we had on Saturday. It would be interesting to compare the possession and shots off/on target between tonight and saturday - no real difference I would expect.

What went horribly wrong tonight was the total absence of the defence. Not one of the goals was a "good" goal. We gifted the lot with defending for the 3rd and 4th that bordered on the farcial. This has undermined our season all the way through - Wimbledon away and palace and Rotherham at home. At least we scored in those games but tonight despite creating chances we could not score.

2 major turning points for me were:

(1) Mistake be barras and mad moment by Jimmy to bring a player down virtually on the goal line. When playing a form team away do not give away the first goal early in the match. it was uphill all the way from there and could have been prevented.

Whats got into Jimmy? He should take note of the moment that Junior put Jorge clean through in the first half. The PNE keeper let him take it wide around him and the resulting shot from an acute angle was easily cleared from the line by the covering defenders.

(2) Putting 2 subs on at a time when we on top in the game. I can understand the desire to introduce attacking players when you are two down in the second half but the 11 men on the pitch had PNE pinned back and were creating chances. When the subs came on it took them 2-3 mins to get into the game. We lost the impetus and they scored the 3rd goal during that period.

What is needed more than anything is a defensive coach to work alongside Lee. He is a natural attacker and it shows in his teams. It says everything that the defender he has given the longest contract to is a better attacker than defender. We need the individual mistakes to be cut out and we need the defensive unit as a whole to work together far more effectively. On a another night a couple of our many chances would have gone in and if we had defended properly we would have at least come away with the 2-2 draw SteveRoy predicted.

I was at the Scunthorpe game mentioned above. This was a shocking result but was in no way as bad as that game. We have come a long way. With some better defending we should not see this sort of result again. As bad as it was I would still rather watch us go out to try and win the game rather than the tepid passionless drivel we saw at Stoke.

By saddlesore (62.252.196.237) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 10:03 am: Edit

The last 20 mins I felt they mauled us with Barrass unfortunately not up to the job.Their passing & movement left us chasing shadows at times.We had plenty of possession throughout the match with no penetration in the last third.For me the crucks of the matter were they showed more mettle when it counted(a little push here & there when it really mattered-all part of the game Generally more physical & up for it !)Junior was simply our best player by a long chalk- if we don't shape up I fear he won't be here so long.Bazeley had plenty of opportunities to put a good cross but failed dismally (Credit to him though as he always made himself avilable & did not hide).We need to get stuck in !

By Ulster Saddler (212.3.176.14) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 10:06 am: Edit

The last few weeks have also put our result against Millwall in perspective. They lose 4 on the bounce - draw at home to Burnley who are on an awful run at the moment - completely outplay us and then lose since they played us. A win against Millwall would have left us sitting pretty.
UP THE SADDLERS

By Phil_G (194.201.73.1) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 10:31 am: Edit

Sheff, I'm not going to try and defend Barras for last night, it appears the whole team were poor, but, as popper said, to blame him alone for the defeat is churlish.
I haven't looked back at the thread, but I think the thrust if it was that Barras always gives 100% effort, something lacking in some of our other players.
"Lets not forget that whatever player you play with this guy you are going to get murdered" So, until Walker got sent off against Burnley, we were getting murdered?
"How different it would have been if Roper or Hay would have been playing with Carbon." How different would it have been? I think most people, me included, think Hay and Roper to be our first choice centre halves, but they were unavailable, so there is no point speculating as to how they would have changed the result.
"The bloke is a liability, I would rather have Birch at centre half." A young centre forward who has never played a first team game at centre half?
Perhaps we could have played your pal David Zdrilic at centre half? From listening to the game on the radio, it sounds like he would have blocked all the goals on the goal line, including the penalty, and scored a hat trick.

By Stu (212.137.33.208) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 10:59 am: Edit

Saddlesore, unless Mr Bonser gets his cheque book out then Junior won't be here come next season even if he wants to. He isn't out of contract, unless the club are keeping it really hush hush, so he'll require a transfer fee. How much he'd cost is a different question. Teams have worked him out now so he wouldn't cost anywhere near as much as people were speculating earlier in the season.

I'd usually put last night down as "one of those games" but there are far too many of them as of late. We are yet to win a game when we have gone a goal down this season, why? Why do we drop our heads as soon as going a goal down? Morale, resilience, lack of confidence. Inconsistent isn't the word.

At least on the positive side, the form table isn't that bad.

F W D L F A GD Pts
Stoke 6 2 3 1 2 1 1 9
Brighton 6 3 0 3 5 6 -1 9
Grimsby 6 2 2 2 7 10 -3 8
Walsall 6 2 1 3 6 11 -5 7
Sheff Wed 6 1 3 2 7 5 2 6
Derby 6 0 2 4 6 12 -6 2

(Stoke have scored just 2 goals in their last 8 games and are becoming draw experts, shame that they need wins to stay up)
I can't see two or three of the teams below us getting the required 9 points to overhaul us (remember our goal difference is far better). Derby must be worrying though.

By PJD (213.122.105.160) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 11:17 am: Edit

Two quick points. Someone mentioned a run of results, there is one stat I am clinging to and that is that we haven't lost two league games on the bounce since Christmas, and that is the sort of run of results I am happy with at this level. So roll on Saturday (Although we never get points against Palace away!)

Second point is to Sheffield Saddler. Did you go to Bradford? Barras had a great game and helped us to three points. He may not have the polish of others, but he is not as bad as you make out in your post and at times has proved to be invaluable this season. I would venture to say he has contributed more this season than your favourite Aussie Mr Corica.

By SheffieldSaddler (194.202.181.189) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 11:23 am: Edit

Phil_G - I didnt blame Barras for last night, please read my post. Yes I think Birch would do better at centre half than Barras whether he is proven or not. As soon as we have a decent attack against us they run rings around Barras, hence Cresswell last night and Sadlier for Millwall the other week. The bloke as passion but nothing else.
Get rid.
Just look at the number of goals scored by our forwards to the number of games played, then I think the conclusions will show Zdrilic is not as bad as you think.

By RushallSaddler (217.207.41.4) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 11:37 am: Edit

Lets hope Roper replaces Baras for Saturday then because we're gonna need him badly with the Palace attack consisting of Johnson, Adebola, Friedman, Black and Julian Gray, one or two classy performers amongst those and Palace and Francis in particular under severe pressure to produce a win.
Yet again we're up against a team on a shocking run of form, not playing too well etc etc (millwall springs to mind) so what result can we expect on Saturday, another defeat looks likely but you never know with us in this rollercoaster season of ours

By SheffieldSaddler (194.202.181.189) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 11:41 am: Edit

In fact looking at the stats -
Jorge scored 12 from 42 plus 1 as sub.
Junior scored 11 from 27 plus 7 as sub.
Zdrilic scored 5 from 10 plus 18 as sub.
This proves that Zdrilic is not as bad as people think, only starting 10 games, only thing I cant find is the minutes they have all played.

By popperpancake (81.134.94.20) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 11:55 am: Edit

It doesn't prove anything sheff.
Corica 4 from 37+6
Matias 2 from 7+9

And its not like corica has been setting them up left, right and centre is it? So how does he justify his place regularly ahead of matias?

Now don't get me wrong as i have continually defended corica along with u, but stats prove very little IMO.

By Stu (212.137.33.208) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 11:59 am: Edit

Rushall, how could you forget Adi Akinbiyi?

By Geordiesaddler (213.205.138.250) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 12:03 pm: Edit

The teams below us are starting to battle and scrap for their lives, and as usually happens are starting to grind out results against the mid-table teams. On Saturday Grimsby visit Burnley, Sheff Wed away are at Millwall, Stoke visit Watford. So with us at Palace, four of the bottom 6 visit the four teams who can't buy a win and probably can't wait for the season to end. These kind of fixtures provide clubs scrapping against relegation with the chance to go and grab a lifeline and get some belief, like we did at Forest last year. We are still very much in the box seat in terms of survival, but for me Saturday is a great oppportunity for all the above teams to grab some unlikely points. If we miss the boat we're gonna be in for an uncomfortable couple of weeks watching the other results coming in. Roper and Wrack must start on Saturday, and lets have a look at Shuker as a winger instead of a sawn-off Andy Rammell.

By RushallSaddler (217.207.41.4) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 12:39 pm: Edit

Stu - he's injured mate dodgy career threatening knee injury hoping to see top specialist in USA to save his career - I think!

By Red Ethel (62.31.204.211) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 02:12 pm: Edit

hurray! Zdrilic has started 10 games!

Good. He's crap. Get rid.

By Paul G (134.220.2.2) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 02:16 pm: Edit

The trouble with Barras is that although he can play well he almost certainly has a moment in every game where he makes a fundamental error. At this level that is usually punished (i.e. last night) but at lower levels he can get away with it. Even in the bradford game where he did play well, he had that one awful attempt at a back header that let a bradford player in on goal and ultimatly lead to Jimmy having to pull of that one handed save from the ball that struck Bazely. Is it a concentration thing because he does have the ability at times?

By RushallSaddler (217.207.41.4) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 02:28 pm: Edit

He also had a really poor first 20 minutes against Burnley

By Neil Ravenscroft (62.172.127.2) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 02:35 pm: Edit

He has a poor game anytime anyone attacks him on the ground at this level. He's OK with the ball in the air (in fact, coped well with Taylor on Saturday in that respect), but otherwise is not good enough.

By Frank Stubbs (195.93.49.12) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 02:46 pm: Edit

I want to remember Barras for the goal at the Dingles and so on,not the fact that he his out of his depth at this level,hopefully we can move him on deadline day and get some extra cover at centre half.Hay is out until when? and i am just waiting for Carbons next injury.It wasn't just about Barras last night Zigor was poor and so was Bazeley,who i have generally found to be a good signing although the last month has been poor.It is also time to say goodbye to Pedro,he's served us well but he is simply not good enough.Moc never stops battling but it was'nt enough jury still out on Sammways.Junior was lively on another night would have had a couple and Jorge well it was another case of will the real Jorge Leitao please stand up.
Where do we go from here........christ knows.We need 3 points at Palace and we can get them, but how we will perform is anybodys guess.We will stay up then it has to be one almighty clear out we cant be hear again in 12 months we must move on and if that means opening the cheque book,then lets dust it down and get it used.

By ToeJoe Jnr (62.30.233.102) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 05:05 pm: Edit

Spot on Red Ethel!!!

By everready (62.60.124.52) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 05:08 pm: Edit

Never mind. If Preston had played well it could have been a lot worse!

By Cheeky Monkey (62.60.124.52) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 05:12 pm: Edit

I knew it was a bad omen in dribbling practice on Monday. We were dribbing roung a line of 3 traffic cones and they won 5-0 as well!

By Cheeky Monkey (62.60.124.52) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 05:13 pm: Edit

I knew it was a bad omen in dribbling practice on Monday. We were dribbling roung a line of 3 traffic cones and they won 5-0 as well!

By Shifnalsaddler (213.120.56.33) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 07:46 pm: Edit

Sheff, here I am.
Barras has had some good games, such as Rotherham and Bradford recently, and he's had some bad ones.
Is he a great centre half? Not really. Is he a good bloke to have around in the squad, as a fourth choice centre back? Yes. Does he have a good attitude? Yes. Will last nights defeat hurt him? Yes. Will it hurt all our players? No it bloody well won't.

By PT (213.48.244.113) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 08:25 pm: Edit

We didn't deserve to lose by five last night but we certainly deserved to lose. The first 20 minutes wasn't disimilar to Saturday's it's just that unlike Burnley, Preston scored. Also like on saturday, we played some great stuff at times but couldn't convert a chance. Junior just before & Jorge just after half-time both should have scored and at 2-1 it would have been a different game.
For the second match running and for the second time against Preston this year, a dickhead piece of goalkeeping cost us a vital goal. I know Jimmy is universally acclaimed but his decision making is aweful at times.
Barras is so far out of his depth you worry about him getting the bends if he ever resurfaces in the 3rd division. The bloke has the heart of a lion but last night the jury of Channel 4's "faking it" would have had no problem spotting the spoofer unless of course Carl Robinson is still claiming to be Premiership quality.
Ropes is back on Saturday, thank god, and hopefully Wrack will be back soon, either to inject some urgency into the midfield or to play Right-Back as Bazeley desperately needs a rest.
I feel sorry for Lee. Every time he thinks he's cracked a winning team they let him down. I think it's a mixture of ability (Barras), age (MOC, DB & VS),mavericks(Junior,Corica & Pedro), lack of mental metal (Walker, Carbon and Jorge),lack of bloody minded desire (Robinson & Zigor) and size (Shukur). Apart from that lot the team did fantastic last night and I'm convinced it was a blip.

By saddlesore (62.252.196.9) on Wednesday, March 19, 2003 - 11:31 pm: Edit

Five flattered PNE no doubt!- But we were to airy fairy in & AROUND THE BOX ! PNE won virtually everything in the air,but the penny still did'nt drop as we continued to persist with crosses flung in by Bazeley.Noticably we don't have anyone in the divisions "dirty" top ten table - Im not advocating dirty play,but it may also suggest we're not getting stuck in enough !!& yes I do appreciate we don't have a particularly big squad.If only we could graft some of Barrass's desire onto the others & a bit of skill from the others onto Tony Barrass !

By PJD (213.122.113.14) on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 01:04 pm: Edit

To Tony Barras.....We'll always have Cardiff.

By Tim Wilkes (213.2.51.198) on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 02:14 pm: Edit

To Spain......you'll soon have Gibraltar

By Salop Saddler (213.78.104.143) on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 02:57 pm: Edit

To Walsall.....Akinbiyi. At least he'd add some bo!!ocks to the front line.

By Neil Ravenscroft (62.172.127.2) on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 03:54 pm: Edit

Going to Sjoke, according to rumour.

By Salop Saddler (213.78.107.168) on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 04:13 pm: Edit

Yes, I know having seen it already on teletext, but it's about time we started stepping in for one or two players instead of constantly and consistantly losing out to other clubs. If we can't sell ourselves above and beyond a limp gang of third rate clay throwers and tea cup makers it's a very poor show IMO. Further, I can't see the point in signing the likes of Shuker if the only reason for his being here is to witness, from the sidelines, how the game shouldn't be played.

By Neil Ravenscroft (62.172.127.2) on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 04:23 pm: Edit

Trouble is, I've heard far too many rumours about Akinbiyi's long term injuries.

By ANother Saddler (81.135.33.83) on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 04:28 pm: Edit

That one would go down like a lead balloon at Bescot. Christ, some of our less than charitable supporters might just get tipped over the edge if we signed another ex-Dingle!

I wouldn't mind seeing him with us. Might be a bit of a donkey but scores goals and we need some bloody muscle in the front line.

By everready (62.60.124.52) on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 04:32 pm: Edit

It's time for a review if we survive this season. Yes, if you base it on the longest time in this division- or equivilant- this is the most succesful squad ever. However,is it a strong squad for this Division? No, its one of the poorest in the division. We are one of the teams that others say, " we should beat them easily"
Looking at it objectively the pundits can easily predict Walsall to struggle again next season.
It's time for Colin Lee to stand up and be counted and really build a bit of stability and flair into the performances. Must do better!

By Salop Saddler (213.78.97.246) on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 04:56 pm: Edit

I think I understand what Lee's attempting to do, that being to construct a team who break down the opposition with a passing game, unfortunately it hasn't worked. Time therefore to lend some thought to the more physical aspect of the game combined with a little bit of raw pace. We've lacked both commodities all season, and because of it we are not capable of fighting back or frightening teams.

Defences fear pace, it wrecks the best laid of defensive plans because you can't make allowance for it. We don't have one single player on the books who could do even-time over a hundred yards and that's simply not good enough for a professional football club.

By Neil Ravenscroft (62.172.127.2) on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 05:00 pm: Edit

I think you are right on that one, Salop. Samways is the perfect example of the sort of player he likes. Trouble is, players like him need a couple of "minders" (like Ince and Batty have done for England in the past), to give them the time on the ball they can exploit. Sonner and O'Connor are the men who should be doing that job, but Mart's age is agin him and Sonner has been a little inconsistent!

By Stu (212.137.33.208) on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 05:14 pm: Edit

everready, you might be right in your assessment. But, as the saying goes, you get what you pay for.
We have spent a pittance and in return we're seeing a pittance.

There is a difference between getting promoted amongst a division of crap sides even though you spend nothing, and then establishing yourself in a division of good & half decent sides when you spend nothing.

Before people point to the likes of Rotherham, let me say Pollit £75k, McIntosh £125k, Mullin £100-£150k, Barker £100k, Lee £150, Byfield £50k. Thats £600k-£650k without really knowing about the rest of their side.

Division 2 was poor, so organistation, motivation and dedication can get you promoted. Division 1 is a big step up, thats when you need to add quality.

Its the same as Albion. They'd got the organisation, motivation, dedication AND talent to get out of Division 1. Unfortunately, what they didn't have was the talent to stay in the Premier.

We can survive in this division by spending nothing, but I doubt we'll ever get out of the bottom 6-8 teams because we'll only ever be able to compete with the teams who also spend virtually nothing! Next season though we may want to worry. Both Wigan and Cardiff will spend money IF they come up and both would expect to walk into the middle-reaches of the Division. As opposed to Joke and Brighton who we always knew would struggle.

By Salop Saddler (213.78.102.65) on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 05:41 pm: Edit

Stu, I have to agree. What we have achieved has been remarkable, but we can't go on just 'getting by', not at this level. There simply has to be a commitment to spending by the club, if not, the dead zone of division two will look forward to greeting us once again. It would be heartbreaking to lose our status at the end of this term, but it is a possiblilty, that said I still believe we'll be in division one next season, and should we be, then we must invest. Three or four half reasonable players (NOT cast off's) could see us really 'mixing it' with the 'bigger team's' in the league.

Another season like this could be detremental on several fronts. The increased fan base will decline back to the 4,500 level, we will struggle throughout the season, and we will be relegated. If the club want's to signal its intent for coming season, somebody needs to make a clear announcement regarding investment, not on infrastucture, but on the pitch. If such an announcement was made it would boost interest and would certainly result in record season ticket sales. If, however, they are content with what we have got, and what we are achieving then I forsee problems.

I'm not advocating that we 'bust the bank', simply reasonable investment, resulting in a stable first division team.

By Neil Ravenscroft (62.172.127.2) on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 06:00 pm: Edit

I think it's a chicken and egg situation, as Glenn would have it. They will not spend that kind of cash, even small amounts, while gates are low. We need to add another 1500 to 2000, otherwise I can't see them upping the invesment.

By Salop Saddler (213.78.102.65) on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 06:13 pm: Edit

Well...if the board continue to act like chickens, they'll end up with egg on their collective face's! Nobody is asking them to do anything silly, just an affordable cash injection on the park. The money's there courtesy of Middlesbro(ho ho ho!) so let's see it put to good use.

By RushallSaddler (217.207.41.4) on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 06:15 pm: Edit

Who other than Pompey (Chairmans money), Palace (Morrison fee) and Sheff Utd (Kabba - cup run) have actually paid a significant transfer fee on signings this season, I can't think of anyone, even the Dingles only acquired two ageing free transfers, granted on 10K per week - way out of our league, and I can't really see that changing for the foreseeable future, everyone in the first division is going to be doing as us looking around for Bosmans etc, then it will come down to wages, which is where the reasonable investment comes into play, can we compete in the Bosman market is the question.

By ANother Saddler (213.122.22.70) on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 06:18 pm: Edit

As I see it there was far too much optimism before the season started, which is why some people are viewing this season as disappointing, which in some ways is superb as it shows how far we've come if 18th in Division One isn't good enough, but also a bit daft because we'd have done anything to be in this position this time twelve months ago.

We need to invest (50k was needed for Ainsworth and we hadn't got it) which is worrying but I don't want us to blow a load of cash and see it backfire either.

By Jonathan Wakeling Lewis (80.194.166.69) on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 07:49 pm: Edit

What an absolute diaster 5-0 aaaaaaaahhhhhhh!!!!

By Torbaysaddler (80.225.118.48) on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 08:27 pm: Edit

Hey Billa, you told me you were doing well at school, obviously better than i thought. Next time you come round can you explain what a DIASTER is please.

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.49.12) on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 08:33 pm: Edit

At the moment I think we can compete with most clubs in the Bosman market, except obviously the bigger clubs like Portsmouth, Sheffield United, Reading etc.
Let us not forget pre-season we signed premiership players from England and Germany and first division players from England as well.
We also need to look at players with less that a year on their contract as you can usually get them for a decent price nowadays. Players like Ainsworth should be purchased when you consider you are spending just 50k on a proven first division player who I would have thought wanted to come back to Walsall.
Basically we not only need to look at Bosmans but also players with little time left on their current contract whose club will normally let them go for a decent price.
With CLs contacts we surely should be able to do this.

By JPD (203.18.34.5) on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 03:43 am: Edit

I think we can continue to survive and prosper on a shoestring.
The short term solution is to bring in veterans like Samways, but the long term solution is to bring in younger blokes who are strong, fit and dedicated and up to Div 1 standards.
To me loans are never a solution as I've seen so many loan players whimp out of things.
You never seem to get the 110% you need from them.
We need blokes around the mid 20's who have no history of injuries.
You pick up 1 every couple of months and in time you build a hungry hard working team which has no limits.
C Lee has had a year or so, so we should be seeing a team emerge which can take us through the next few years in comfort.
Its sad that this isn't happening and its a recruitment thing.
It could be happening while the panic signing of Samways etc is happening, but I don't think it is.
Colin - take some time out and look at the longer term.
And review your interview and recruitment techniques.
Don't let desperation rule.
Maybe we should pay better - use the Ricketts and cup money a bit or try and get even more off-field money making schemes going.
We want Div 1 and must do all in our power to stay.

By Paul G (134.220.2.2) on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 01:14 pm: Edit

Players that have come up through the youth system will be much more loyal than loan signings / short term transfers. This really is the area we must conentrate on. Our reserve strikers struggling to score consistently at Raith and kidderminster does not fill me with much optimism.

This really is a crucial area for us now. Crewe are the role model here painful as it is to say. They did not spend much during a 5 year stay in this league but almost continually bring good quality young players through. We will only start to attract good first division players to Walsall once we are established in div 1 as a team not going to be involved in the relegation battle.

And we should pray Cardiff will not go up. They will spend big and establish themselves straight away at this level, keep the only first division player currently interested in joining us and inflict the town with welsh hooligans.

[fish2508]

WOW how exciting!:(