Wycombe (A) League - Saturday 17/3/07

[Stu]

Why in gods name does he persist with BLOODY WRACK?
Just moaning but what exactly do Harper and Cooper give us that Wright and Demon dont?
Final winge and note to DD --Constable scored AGAIN today.

What Ex Walsall F.C. Striker didn't today? can't think of many, why are they always prolofic as soon as they leave us?

Well in Constable's case, because he's playing against Conference defences. The reason he was a donkey for us was that he wasn't up to the standard of League Two. Simple really.

Oh, and he's done OK, but "prolific" is perhaps a bit OTT when describing JC.

James Constable has played 187 minutes of League Two football in his entire career. I'm amazed people can be so judgmental as to label him a donkey after such a limited opportunity.

187 minutes, jeez, even I didn't think it was that little. And people say he didn't take his chance!!!

[Saddler4Life]

Why in gods name does he persist with BLOODY WRACK?
Just moaning but what exactly do Harper and Cooper give us that Wright and Demon dont?
Final winge and note to DD --Constable scored AGAIN today.

What Ex Walsall F.C. Striker didn't today? can't think of many, why are they always prolofic as soon as they leave us?

Well in Constable's case, because he's playing against Conference defences. The reason he was a donkey for us was that he wasn't up to the standard of League Two. Simple really.

Oh, and he's done OK, but "prolific" is perhaps a bit OTT when describing JC.

James Constable has played 187 minutes of League Two football in his entire career. I'm amazed people can be so judgmental as to label him a donkey after such a limited opportunity.

187 minutes, jeez, even I didn't think it was that little. And people say he didn't take his chance!!!

Yeah, and he has played his part in helping them get to Wembley! If he was still with us, he would help us steer clear of going to Wembley but gain a automatic place with the ratio of goals he has scored for Kiddy!

[We-ARE-Walsall]

[Well in Constable's case, because he's playing against Conference defences. The reason he was a donkey for us was that he wasn't up to the standard of League Two. Simple really.

Oh, and he's done OK, but "prolific" is perhaps a bit OTT when describing JC.

For the record, he has scored 13 goals in 23 matches for Kiddy, thats more than 1 goal every 2 matches, if thats not prolific, I don't know what is.

Geoff, there is no difference between the conference than League 2

Constable wasn't a donkey for us, he was just another with potential, that was booed out of Bescot

Congratulations x x

[Magic Man Fan]

I don't think we were as cautious as some people are making out. Most good managers win lots of away games by keeping it tight and sneaking the odd goal. DD's tactics would have been fine today if we didn't have the ineffective Sam and Butler (YES BUTLER and he has been for a good month or so.) People keep rattling on about his workrate and attitude but in the last two away games if his workrate and attitude were the same as in August he would have grabbed at least a couple of goals. At Darlington a good ball was put across the 6 yard box waiting for him to tuck away but he didn't bust a gut to make it. Yesterday when clean through, he weakly fell to the floor when if he'd stayed on his feet he'd have scored. I don't necessarily blame him, he needs resting but we have no one to replace him with.

We had THREE good chances yesterday. With a Constable like GOALSCORER in the team, we'd have won and DD would have been spot on.

Overall not a bad performance that perhaps deserved more even if as the game went on it was clear it wasn't coming. Harper and Cooper were not doing what we bought them in for and a Wright recall should be on the cards. Rob said Cooper warranted selection by one pass to Butler. Funny that, he's given stick to Wright all season and when we say one cross/pass deserved it he argued differently.

I can't believe the criticism of Wrack (who was poor) but on the pitch for a short time yet Lazyquest has not been mentioned. He's getting better though, he managed to fall over 3 times in three minutes. That's almost as good as Constable's goals to minutes ratio. ;)

Overall a good and welcome point despite suicidal comments from the person who isn't negative for the sake of it you know. ;) I think it was Shrops who said we may need to keep patience and perhaps take 5 points from Chester, Wycombe and MK before we win the games that will take us up. That seems very likely. The pleasing thing is that the clean sheets have returned and we limited Wycombe to long range shots, this is the trait most likely to see us pick up the points we need amongst teams letting in goals for fun.

[WFC_Rob]

Rob said Cooper warranted selection by one pass to Butler. Funny that, he's given stick to Wright all season and when we say one cross/pass deserved it he argued differently.

I argue differently because Cooper played 2 balls yesterday which were match-winning passes. He also made an excellent run into a one-on-one situation where he probably should have scored. In addition there were other aspects of his performance which were decent. I thought he tracked back and won the ball well a couple of times in the first half, as well as helping Fox out when he appeared to be stuck in the corner with no-one to pass to. They are basic features of a midfielder's performance which go unmentioned because that's what is expected. Mark Wright's lack of most of these basics was the main source of my criticisms when he was in the side.

Your buddy Mark Wright has 6 assists to his name this season. How many times did we see him make passes like Cooper's when he was in the side? How many times did we see him run beyond the front two to get into a shooting opportunity? I'd like to see a breakdown of his assists because I suspect at least 4 of them would be corners.
Pointless debate anyway - Wright is out of the 16, so I'm far from the only one who thinks he's a waste of space.

[Bernie]

If Constable had been replaced by a better player and our forwards were scoring goals for fun then I do not think anyone would be too bothered about him leaving.

I asked on another thread whether anyone thinks that Par Cederqvist would score regularly in the Conference.

The idea that a donkey can go into the Conference and find it easy to score goals is rubbish.

[clawtheolder]

[quote="Bernie"]If Constable had been replaced by a better player and our forwards were scoring goals for fun then I do not think anyone would be too bothered about him leaving.

I asked on another thread whether anyone thinks that Par Cederqvist would score regularly in the Conference.

The idea that a donkey can go into the Conference and find it easy to score goals is rubbish

Can anyone tell me what kind of league was Par playing in, give a comparison in our league because i`ve seen all is performances and i cant see when he will score. Saturday was five mins but he might has well have stayed on the bench.

[Bernie]

Par has two previous clubs on Soccerbase.

He played for Osters in Sweden from 2004 to 2005. They were in the Swedish 2nd division until the end of 2005 when they gained promotion to the first division. At that point Par left them and went to Norway.

In Norway he played for Raufoss in 2006. They were in one of the four third level leagues in Norwegian football. They gained promotion to the second level at the end of last season at which point Par left them.

There is every chance that Par could be heading for a hat trick of promotions (followed perhaps by a third departure?).

I have not been able to find out any information of goals or appearances by Cederqvist at those clubs.

I would appreciate someone who actually knows something about Scandanavian football to give us an idea of the standard of second and third level teams in those countries.

[We-ARE-Walsall]

DD seems to think there are some "MASSIVE"clubs in Scandinavia :D

[Magic Man Fan]

Rob said Cooper warranted selection by one pass to Butler. Funny that, he's given stick to Wright all season and when we say one cross/pass deserved it he argued differently.

I argue differently because Cooper played 2 balls yesterday which were match-winning passes. He also made an excellent run into a one-on-one situation where he probably should have scored. In addition there were other aspects of his performance which were decent. I thought he tracked back and won the ball well a couple of times in the first half, as well as helping Fox out when he appeared to be stuck in the corner with no-one to pass to. They are basic features of a midfielder's performance which go unmentioned because that's what is expected. Mark Wright's lack of most of these basics was the main source of my criticisms when he was in the side.

Your buddy Mark Wright has 6 assists to his name this season. How many times did we see him make passes like Cooper's when he was in the side? How many times did we see him run beyond the front two to get into a shooting opportunity? I'd like to see a breakdown of his assists because I suspect at least 4 of them would be corners.
Pointless debate anyway - Wright is out of the 16, so I'm far from the only one who thinks he's a waste of space.

My post was a bit of a wind up but that is so pathetic and hypocritical it's untrue. Wright was producing stuff like Cooper has, even if it was only once per game, all that Cooper is producing. Cooper hasn't produced and assist because the strikers aren't good enough to finish them off, just like they weren't with what Wright was creating.

PS (the bit in bold) - What and shoot pathetically wide with only the keeper to beat but get paid four times as much as Wright in the process. Fan-bloody-tastic that.

PPS - This isn't some bring back Mark Wright campaign. I'm happy with Cooper in the team. I'm just pointing out that the grass isn't always greener, even if the grass is far more expensive, experienced and talented. Copper, apart from a good 45 minutes has offered nothing that Mark Wright hadn't for most of the season, which is all some of us were trying to say at the time.

[Magic Man Fan]

Pointless debate anyway - Wright is out of the 16, so I'm far from the only one who thinks he's a waste of space.

I've known for a long time that most Walsall fans don't appreciate the level we are playing, the money we can afford to pay and consequently the quality of players that means we have to put up with. I also don't judge players on their skin colour like many Mark Wright critics do (not aiming that at anyone on here, but there are many unfortunately)

So that point proves nothing.

[Worthing Saddler]

The team performance and that of several players, was very good yesterday. The quality of a player is best assessed by his standards away from home. Gerrard and Dann played to a high consistent level throughout the game. I feel, however, the success of the season will be determined by the contribution of the recent acquisitions. Cooper rarely gives the ball away, something that happens frequently in this league. Yesterday, he always made himself available for the ball and was a great support to Fox, who is a more than adequate left back.
Harper, because of his pace, attracts more attention. But it is consistency that is needed and Cooper should prove the more reliable. Harper since arriving in England in '98, has started only approximately 150 league games, which indicates injuries and a lack of form. In the same period, Cooper has started almost twice as many games.
Any new additions to the squad have to be up and running with no time to adjust. Which makes any new signing unlikely unless they are very exceptional for this league. Our pattern of play will remain the same for the remainder of the season, because it has been successful in this league that we must exit at the first attempt, even if that means going up not as champions.

[ShropsSaddler]

I think it was Shrops who said we may need to keep patience and perhaps take 5 points from Chester, Wycombe and MK before we win the games that will take us up. That seems very likely.

Actually, worse than that MMF....I expected us to take 3 points off Chester but then forecast that we would lose against both Wycombe and MK, leaving us outside the top 3 this time next week. Well, in fact, we've taken a point more than I expected already and we CAN'T be outside the top 3 this time next week. It's all looking good to me.

[PT]

Worthing Saddler. I think you were chatting to my old man yesterday. He told me he was speaking to some bloke from worthing who clocks up as many miles as me driving all over the place watching the lads.

Good on ya fella

[geoffwhiting]

[Well in Constable's case, because he's playing against Conference defences. The reason he was a donkey for us was that he wasn't up to the standard of League Two. Simple really.

Oh, and he's done OK, but "prolific" is perhaps a bit OTT when describing JC.

For the record, he has scored 13 goals in 23 matches for Kiddy, thats more than 1 goal every 2 matches, if thats not prolific, I don't know what is.

Geoff, there is no difference between the conference than League 2

Constable wasn't a donkey for us, he was just another with potential, that was booed out of Bescot

Congratulations x x

No of course there isn't, they are one and the same.

So tell me, when Torquay drop down there in May, they are as good as us then ? The argument makes little sense IMHO.

Yes there ARE teams in the Conference, those playing towards the top, who could come up and hold their own, that has been proven over the years, and yes there have been teams in League 2 that have dropped into the Conference and never (so far) come back, but generally and on balance League 2 IS better than the Conference, just as League 1 is better on average than League 2.

If JC has found his level, if he gets games and gets goals, then good luck to him, and there may again be a way back for him into the League. But have we seen any league clubs snapping him up - not that I've noticed.

As for those lines of yours that I've highlighted, well frankly all I can say is you're throwing ridiculous accusations in my direction. I NEVER boo Walsall players, on the pitch or otherwise, so there are no "congratulations" due to me - I suggest you take 'em back !

[We-ARE-Walsall]

I rarely make sense to be fair

To me, it was correct to send him out on loan, he had a good loan spell, that was the ideal time to bring him back, and have him coming off the bench, confidence high, surely he is better than our other options up front ?

I don't think he was given a fair chance, because his face didn't fit

[Ned_Kelly]

[Well in Constable's case, because he's playing against Conference defences. The reason he was a donkey for us was that he wasn't up to the standard of League Two. Simple really.

Oh, and he's done OK, but "prolific" is perhaps a bit OTT when describing JC.

For the record, he has scored 13 goals in 23 matches for Kiddy, thats more than 1 goal every 2 matches, if thats not prolific, I don't know what is.

Geoff, there is no difference between the conference than League 2

Constable wasn't a donkey for us, he was just another with potential, that was booed out of Bescot

Congratulations x x

No of course there isn't, they are one and the same.

So tell me, when Torquay drop down there in May, they are as good as us then ? The argument makes little sense IMHO.

Yes there ARE teams in the Conference, those playing towards the top, who could come up and hold their own, that has been proven over the years, and yes there have been teams in League 2 that have dropped into the Conference and never (so far) come back, but generally and on balance League 2 IS better than the Conference, just as League 1 is better on average than League 2.

If JC has found his level, if he gets games and gets goals, then good luck to him, and there may again be a way back for him into the League. But have we seen any league clubs snapping him up - not that I've noticed.

As for those lines of yours that I've highlighted, well frankly all I can say is you're throwing ridiculous accusations in my direction. I NEVER boo Walsall players, on the pitch or otherwise, so there are no "congratulations" due to me - I suggest you take 'em back !

Of course not. We'll be 2 divisions above them and a class apart :wink:

[tinned]

If JC has found his level, if he gets games and gets goals, then good luck to him

That's all he needed with us Geoff, a fudge chance. He's been given a run with Kiddy and delivered. He could've done the same for us if he'd been given the chance. Instead we let fudge Sun Tan Man wave his magic wand and land us a gem. :evil:

Oooh, sorry! Isn't talking about Constable now against the AUP :roll:

[We-ARE-Walsall]

If JC has found his level, if he gets games and gets goals, then good luck to him

That's all he needed with us Geoff, a jolly chance. He's been given a run with Kiddy and delivered. He could've done the same for us if he'd been given the chance. Instead we let blinking Sun Tan Man wave his magic wand and land us a gem. :evil:

Oooh, sorry! Isn't talking about Constable now against the AUP :roll:

Don't think Sun Tan Man got Par, DD was tracking him wasn't he ?

I agree with your post though

[tinned]

Don't think Sun Tan Man got Par, DD was tracking him wasn't he ?

Was he? Fair enough. Another cracking signing then :roll:

[Bernie]

For the record, he has scored 13 goals in 23 matches for Kiddy, thats more than 1 goal every 2 matches, if thats not prolific, I don't know what is.

I am generally on the side of Constable in these arguments, so it is with some reluctance that I ask you where you got the total of 13 goals. According to Soccerbase he has scored 8 goals in 17 matches since he went to Kidderminster in November (5 in the league and 3 in the cup). That is not a bad return in itself, but I cannot find the six games you seem to know about in which he scored five more goals for Kidderminster.

[tinned]

2-0 win

Butler and Cederqvist to score! :lol:

You are getting more negative by the week :D

Although Ciderqvist scoring :shock:

A shut-up shop, negative performance. Either ending in the expected and sought after 0 - 0 or falling for the self-inflicted trap of a sucker-punch goal.

Sorry, it's all so predictably in the script.

How do I do it? I must be a fortune teller.

*Yawn emoticon here*

[geoffwhiting]

I rarely make sense to be fair

To me, it was correct to send him out on loan, he had a good loan spell, that was the ideal time to bring him back, and have him coming off the bench, confidence high, surely he is better than our other options up front ?

I don't think he was given a fair chance, because his face didn't fit

It's all about opinions, so call it "face didn't fit" if you like, but what I saw (and no doubt DD saw hence he sold him) was that he had no class whatsoever and wasn't worth keeping. On what grounds can you support this "face didn't fit" argument - are we managed by some sort of snob, or what ? Or was DD not just basing JC's sale on the fact he was completely and utterly sub-standard ?

The "better than Cerderquvist" argument thrown up by some is irrelevant as well, because being better than Cederquvist doesn't qualify anyone to be good enough for League football.

If JC didn't get "a fair chance" as YOU put it, isn't that because DD watched him in training and didn't rate him ? I'd say so, and I have no reason whatsoever to wonder why.

[Stu]

For the record, he has scored 13 goals in 23 matches for Kiddy, thats more than 1 goal every 2 matches, if thats not prolific, I don't know what is.

I am generally on the side of Constable in these arguments, so it is with some reluctance that I ask you where you got the total of 13 goals. According to Soccerbase he has scored 8 goals in 17 matches since he went to Kidderminster in November (5 in the league and 3 in the cup). That is not a bad return in itself, but I cannot find the six games you seem to know about in which he scored five more goals for Kidderminster.

From the following website

http://www.harriers-mad.co.uk/footydb/l ... pid=115663

Breakdown of every match he has played, how many goals he scored in that match and any bookings/sendings off.

[King Crimson]

The scourge of Vauxhall Motors. :?

[Magic Man Fan]

So tell me, when Torquay drop down there in May, they are as good as us then ? The argument makes little sense IMHO.

Geoff, you're being a little silly if you don't mind me saying so. When we talk about the standard between the bottom half of League One down to the top half of the Conference, we're talking about the general standard of defending that strikers have to face.

Torquay will go down because they are a poor TEAM so of course they're not as good as us.

James Constable is a player not a team. We have a good team and he could have made a difference in that good team. The standard of defending (not defenders) he would be playing against rarely changes.

PS - I'm astounded at the naivity surrounding STM, DD and the transfers. DD might have known about him before but STM knows of every foreign player going and their agents.

[Denmark Hill Saddler]

Went to the Wycombe game with a friend of mine who is a Portsmouth fan, that lives in West London - and who didn't know a huge amount about either team before the game. Tended to agree with his assessment - neither side did enough to win, but he was pretty impressed with the solidity of our defence against a pretty formidable strike force.

Distribution from both sides was pretty poor for most of the game, though the wind was obviously making it difficult to play. Our best period of play was the first 30 minutes, and really the first 10. Wycombe were out of the blocks extremely slowly, and they could not handle Harper's pace at all. Cooper should definitely have scored, and Butler's finish was disappointing.

After that Harper faded (though if his two assists had resulted in 2 goals, as they should have, his work for the day would have been pretty much complete!), and with that, so did our main attacking potential.

Agree with many of the other comments on here about the game - Dann and Gerrard were solid, and Keates rarely let their midfield settle. When Wycombe attacked, they did so with greater numbers than we did, but I can't remember them creating a chance of note.

Think the comments about Wrack are a bit harsh - he created different problems for their defence, and I thought unnerved them a bit. Sam worked his socks off in a completely thankless role - with more support from midfield, his team contribution would be much more noticeable. Butler played poorly - I personally would have taken him off rather than Sam.

Still, the result was a favourable one - especially given the Swindon result. And Stockport and Hartleppol cancelling each other out. I would be content with two points from these games at Wycombe and MK Dons - which would leave us still in 2nd place going into April.

[Bernie]

Stu, thanks for the link to the Kidderminster site confirming the 13 goals that Constable has scored.

Since he left he has scored 9 more goals than either Butler or Sam and 13 more than Cederqvist.

[SaigonSaddler]

[Well in Constable's case, because he's playing against Conference defences. The reason he was a donkey for us was that he wasn't up to the standard of League Two. Simple really.

Oh, and he's done OK, but "prolific" is perhaps a bit OTT when describing JC.

For the record, he has scored 13 goals in 23 matches for Kiddy, thats more than 1 goal every 2 matches, if thats not prolific, I don't know what is.

Geoff, there is no difference between the conference than League 2

Constable wasn't a donkey for us, he was just another with potential, that was booed out of Bescot

Congratulations x x

No of course there isn't, they are one and the same.

So tell me, when Torquay drop down there in May, they are as good as us then ? The argument makes little sense IMHO.

Yes there ARE teams in the Conference, those playing towards the top, who could come up and hold their own, that has been proven over the years, and yes there have been teams in League 2 that have dropped into the Conference and never (so far) come back, but generally and on balance League 2 IS better than the Conference, just as League 1 is better on average than League 2.

If JC has found his level, if he gets games and gets goals, then good luck to him, and there may again be a way back for him into the League. But have we seen any league clubs snapping him up - not that I've noticed.

As for those lines of yours that I've highlighted, well frankly all I can say is you're throwing ridiculous accusations in my direction. I NEVER boo Walsall players, on the pitch or otherwise, so there are no "congratulations" due to me - I suggest you take 'em back !

I see the main steps as this.......

Top premier

top third premier
average premier

struggling premier/best championship

playoff championship

best div 1/bottom half champs
average div 1
bottom third div 1/top div 2
average div 2/conference
bottom half conference

With some vast gulfs at the top end and gradations going down into the conference. There are some apalling teams in the conference so it's not a good comparison and constable suddenly isn't the answer to any league teams prayers. We tried him out, it was a jump too far, now he's improving but we're not inter milan and simply cannot afford to take a chance on every player that may/may not make it. Constable may become good enough in the future, it's looking good for the lad and good luck to him.

[Magic Man Fan]

Stu, thanks for the link to the Kidderminster site confirming the 13 goals that Constable has scored.

Since he left he has scored 9 more goals than either Butler or Sam and 13 more than Cederqvist.

I like the way you make the facts perfectly clear for everyone Bernie. :lol:

I know missing chances doesn't count for anything but I have been reading the Kiddy match reports and JC has been close with many other attempts that have been saved well by keepers or hit the woodwork. What's the old saying about forwards being in the right place at the right time. I honestly can't remember more than one position that Cederquist has been in to call it a good chance.

You can't teach goalscoring instinct.