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Brexit Breakfast

The place for all general topics not related to the Saddlers, plus the ever-popular Prediction League. Keep it fun.
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PINNACLE
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Thu May 10, 2018 3:43 pm

Manchester Saddler wrote:
PINNACLE wrote:
Manchester Saddler wrote:
swampysaddler wrote:
Manchester Saddler wrote:Swampy - calm down!

You are making yourself look like a idiot, mate. I would suggest that you refrain from threatening behaviour and using nasty insults and take a breather before you end up getting yourself banned again?

You've given all you have to give on this subject and have nothing new to add - just the same old disillusioned nonsense about George Osbourne!

Leave the rest of us to chat about this without the shadow of a violent assault or a vitriolic tirade.


I will calm down when YOU FINALLY provide me evidence of the forecasted demise of the UK if we voted Leave.
Manchester I have been asking you know for evidence and hard facts to back up your doom claims for nearly 2 years.
Still I am sat waiting.
Back your gob up. Provide evidence to back your claims up.
Not hard.

Oh and Manchester the only fools are you, Saigon, Exile, El Nombre. I ask for "proof" and you cant provide.


Must we go over this AGAIN, Swampy? Your lack of responses to MY questions? Simply because deep down you know that I am right? I asked my questions even further back in time. You just seem to have adopted a stubborn ignorance that is, quite frankly, making you look really daft. You can repeat the same cack over and over again Swampy but they key to your views on Brexit are totally open in the angry vitriol you have poured forth on this thread.

Why are certain Brexiters so angry I wonder? Mainly because they are openly made to look like fools in the media.

Read through the thread again, Swampy mate. The truth will set you free.

If you want an example of what I am talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXOu3U_CbpU

Anyway - back on point.

The "plan" is non-existent as far as I can tell. We seem to be taking ten steps back for every one step forward.

If anybody can recall the original thread, I predicted then that Brexit would effectively be the Norway/Swiss model and so far that's all I can see happening.

It seems that we will end up with the same deal but absolutely no power to influence the EU.

What did Brexiters win again?



As a staunch remainer would you be happy with that ? Would that really be what you would like for the future ?
I respect your decision to remain but surely not under those terms !
If we have no power to influence then what is the point of remaining ?
3 questions there............take your time !


It's a shame you refuse to answer MY simple questions, Pinnacle - but there you go!

But I will answer you - as I usually do!


First - the ONLY way to have ANY influence over the EU is to REMAIN in the EU. This is obvious even to the most stubborn Brexiter. The deal I am talking about in the above post is the one that I predicted should we leave - i.e. we remain in the Customs Union like Norway, BUT are not IN the EU therefore we cannot take part in the EU Parliament and vote - LIKE OUR MEP'S can.

What I want for the future is to REMAIN.

Absolutely NO Brexit deal will benefit us as a nation. None whatsoever.

You can see from all of our time in the EU that we are THRIVING as a nation. THIS IS BECAUSE OF THE EU.

Even the best Brexit deal is a bad one, i.e. Brexit In Name Only (BRINO as it is being called).

Under THAT scenario we will be subject to all of the weird and wonderful EU regulations WITHOUT INFLUENCE.

The other extreme, the HARD Brexit, will be a total disaster. We will return to the bad old days in Ireland - Gibraltar will be isolated, we will pay a fortune for European goods, we will have to rely on deals with other nations - which will not be as easy to negotiate as most Brexiters think - and we will be desperate because we will need it more than they do.

Add to this the fact that other nations will demand something in return - like MORE freedom of movement between the two nations (India and China have already stated this as a proviso of a special trade deal with the UK) it is hardly going to please the xenophobic element of the Brexiter camp.

REMAIN IS THE ONLY WAY!

Does that answer you questions?

And now - will you reciprocate? What exactly did the Brexiters win, Pinnacle? Why is Brexit a good thing, Pinnacle? Why did you vote Leave (be honest)?

Three for three, Pinnacle.

:D


And there you go again, In the grand scheme of things "you"are a nothing and in reality neither am i. In a previous post i have adamantly stated that it is nothing to do with you or anyone else how or why i voted but i have never stated on posts on here (especially in capital letters) "LEAVE IS THE ONLY WAY". People voted how they saw fit at the time and neither you or i can condemn them for the decision they made, that was their choice.
Approximately half of the people who voted won't get what they voted for but the other half will. You are a poster on a football forum site and only appeal to those who agree with you on a football forum site. You have no right whatsoever to demand answers from fellow posters to stroke your superiority complex and self fueled ego ! Everyone is entitled to an opinion whether you like it or not, not everyone will agree with you, how you react to that speaks volumes about you because the rest of us don't really care what your thoughts are regarding the future of Great Britain on a football fans forum.

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Super Gabor
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Thu May 10, 2018 4:10 pm

The Dept. of International Trade (Liam "it will be the easiest trade deal in history" Fox's department) has recruited 800 more civil servants to deal with all the new international trade negotiations that will need to be developed. He has been given more funds to do so, yet there is a "balancing of the books" act imposed on DiT by the Chancellor and the consequence of this, is that DiT is looking to cut 10% of its staff who actually do the ground work in supporting British SMEs to help them export.

Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving :roll:

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Manchester Saddler
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Thu May 10, 2018 4:13 pm

You are unreal, Pinnacle.

Ask me three questions and then, when I oblige with answers, and ask you to reciprocate you throw your toys out of the pram again accusing me of DEMANDING. Worse, you then hurl words at me in a huge font in bright red as if I am some sort of blind retard.

No quid pro quo with you, eh, Pinnacle?

There are enough people like me on this forum and in the country, Pinnacle, to make a difference in terms of voting, campaigning and generally putting our feelings out there to get noticed.

If you think people like us cannot make a difference then what is the point of existing?

Should we just sit here and take the bullshit hurled at us by politicians and the powers that be just because, in your view, we are "just posters on a football forum"?

And don't talk to me about ego, when your post is fuelled with EGO and "high and mightiness".

You fudge asked me three questions and I answered, yet when I ask you questions you turn them into DEMANDS!

What a hypocrite!!

Can't you see that?

FFS!!!

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SaigonSaddler
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Thu May 10, 2018 4:15 pm

PINNACLE wrote:And there you go again, In the grand scheme of things "you"are a nothing and in reality neither am i. In a previous post i have adamantly stated that it is nothing to do with you or anyone else how or why i voted but i have never stated on posts on here (especially in capital letters) "LEAVE IS THE ONLY WAY". People voted how they saw fit at the time and neither you or i can condemn them for the decision they made, that was their choice.
Approximately half of the people who voted won't get what they voted for but the other half will. You are a poster on a football forum site and only appeal to those who agree with you on a football forum site. You have no right whatsoever to demand answers from fellow posters to stroke your superiority complex and self fueled ego ! Everyone is entitled to an opinion whether you like it or not, not everyone will agree with you, how you react to that speaks volumes about you because the rest of us don't really care what your thoughts are regarding the future of Great Britain on a football fans forum.


What is this, nihilist Thursday?

Of course people have an opinion. The concept is to analyse those opinions to discover their veracity and which are more likely to occur. That's how good decisions are made and that's how progress is made.

No wonder you voted out if you can't be bothered to look deeper into an issue. Might as well have tossed a coin and gone down the pub.
Sounds like you did.

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PINNACLE
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Thu May 10, 2018 5:45 pm

Manchester Saddler wrote:You are unreal, Pinnacle.

Ask me three questions and then, when I oblige with answers, and ask you to reciprocate you throw your toys out of the pram again accusing me of DEMANDING. Worse, you then hurl words at me in a huge font in bright red as if I am some sort of blind retard.

No quid pro quo with you, eh, Pinnacle?

There are enough people like me on this forum and in the country, Pinnacle, to make a difference in terms of voting, campaigning and generally putting our feelings out there to get noticed.

If you think people like us cannot make a difference then what is the point of existing?

Should we just sit here and take the bullshit hurled at us by politicians and the powers that be just because, in your view, we are "just posters on a football forum"?

And don't talk to me about ego, when your post is fuelled with EGO and "high and mightiness".

You fudge asked me three questions and I answered, yet when I ask you questions you turn them into DEMANDS!

What a hypocrite!!

Can't you see that?

FFS!!!


Message to all UTS posters.................
Please read all of the above (maybe twice) and make your own mind up about who is throwing toys out of the pram !
Insults and shouting !
Poor soul can't take anyone disagreeing with his point of view, a sad reflection of Britain today and of the people who think they know it all.

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Thu May 10, 2018 6:37 pm

Message to UTS posters...Pinny frock requires people to answer his questions however is unable to do like wise.

Your utter fudge sponge.

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shrewsbury saddler
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Thu May 10, 2018 6:48 pm

Is this an irregular verb conjugation?
I ask questions
You demand answers
He/She/It won't mind their own business.

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Cowshed
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Thu May 10, 2018 7:52 pm

shrewsbury saddler wrote:
Cowshed wrote:
shrewsbury saddler wrote:
Manchester Saddler wrote:Aside from Swampy being taken to the cleaners by Sound Out too ... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Swampy aside, I would like to know what people think will genuinely happen.

May's position is weaker now than it has been and she is being attacked by members of her own cabinet as well as the uber-Brexiters on one side and the Remainers on the other.

Add to this the House of Lords and the Labour Party and you have one unholy mess just at the time we need a plan.

You all know my thoughts on this - what do the rest of you think?

What will happen? We'll end up with an agreement which leaves both sides asking, "What's the point of leaving?"

Longer term, I suspect the legacy of the leave campaign will be future generations having the Euro-not one of the EU's best ideas. A decade or so down the line, UK will have to rejoin,and the rules insist new members adopt the Euro. Another reason for millennials to hate baby-boomers.





If the uk debt to gdp ratio is reduced sufficiently to meet the euro entrance criteria I will be very pleased

Are we going tits up or not make your mind up

You seem to think that eurozone convergence criteria have to be met on joining the EU. They don't.



I thought the point related to having to adopt the euro as a currency are you saying the debt to gdp ratios are no longer relevant and any country irrespective of high debt to gdp can take part in the European monetary union?

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Manchester Saddler
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Thu May 10, 2018 8:12 pm

PINNACLE wrote:
Message to all UTS posters.................
Please read all of the above (maybe twice) and make your own mind up about who is throwing toys out of the pram !
Insults and shouting !
Poor soul can't take anyone disagreeing with his point of view, a sad reflection of Britain today and of the people who think they know it all.


Now I've really tried to be civil to you on this thread, Pinnacle and once again you just can't help reverting to your old ways.

PINNACLE wrote:
You have no right whatsoever to demand answers from fellow posters to stroke your superiority complex and self fueled ego !


The above actually tells people everything they need to know as does ...

PINNACLE wrote:
As a staunch remainer would you be happy with that ? Would that really be what you would like for the future ?
I respect your decision to remain but surely not under those terms !
If we have no power to influence then what is the point of remaining ?
3 questions there............take your time !


And yet when I answer and then ask nicely, I get ...

PINNACLE wrote:
You have no right whatsoever to demand answers from fellow posters to stroke your superiority complex and self fueled ego !


Sorry for repeating that quote but it does prove my point perfectly.

:lol:

I think this tells people what they need to know - without you trying to once again to paint me as something I am not (for some bizarre reason that I still can't fathom).

We'll see, Pinnacle.

I really don't want to stoop down to your level and start a war of words with you again - as tempting as it is - so, for now, I shall just allow you to be your own worst enemy.

Get the popcorn out UTS - I sense another bombastic, vitriolic and ill-thought response from Pinnacle Towers.

Hoisted by your own petard - AGAIN!!! :lol:

:mrgreen:

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PINNACLE
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Thu May 10, 2018 9:01 pm

i asked 3 questions but at no time demanded an answer !

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Manchester Saddler
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Thu May 10, 2018 9:44 pm

PINNACLE wrote:i asked 3 questions but at no time demanded an answer !


No demand's here...

Manchester Saddler wrote:And now - will you reciprocate? What exactly did the Brexiters win, Pinnacle? Why is Brexit a good thing, Pinnacle? Why did you vote Leave (be honest)?"


:lol: :lol: :lol:


I'll let others judge, Mr Touchy!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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PINNACLE
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Thu May 10, 2018 10:27 pm

Parliament gave the decision to the British people, didn't like it and so took it away.
For the 3rd time............i voted leave and that is all you need to know.
I will leave the name calling to you and your friends...................very mature !

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Thu May 10, 2018 11:16 pm

...and breathe...

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Manchester Saddler
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Fri May 11, 2018 6:35 am

PINNACLE wrote:Parliament gave the decision to the British people, didn't like it and so took it away.
For the 3rd time............i voted leave and that is all you need to know.
I will leave the name calling to you and your friends...................very mature !


Oh I see! The man who starts calling ME names now tries to take the high ground!

:lol:

Everyone who has ever read one of your posts knows EXACTLY why you voted leave, Pinnacle, and the only reason you will not debate or discuss the topic rationally is that you are afraid and ashamed that those reasons will come out to those who haven't so far been privy to your past on this board.

We vote for a new government every 5 years, Pinnacle. People change their minds. In fact, the last government didn't even make it that far before calling another election. The fact that we cannot choose on the future of our country again now that all of the facts have come to light is absolutely scandalous.

Keep you secrets to yourself, Pinnacle. How can you contribute to a thread if you don't give people your opinions? Your refusal to open up speaks volumes!


:lol:

seventies_saddler
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Fri May 11, 2018 10:42 am

PINNACLE wrote:Parliament gave the decision to the British people, didn't like it and so took it away.
For the 3rd time............i voted leave and that is all you need to know.
I will leave the name calling to you and your friends...................very mature !


How have they taken it away? We're still leaving as per the vote. Parliament are just exercising the sovereign democracy you Brexiteers are always banging on about. They are simply reacting to the attempt to subvert democracy by 'lunatic fringe' in the House of Commons who are trying to sneak through a load of extras not mentioned on the ballot paper.

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Fri May 11, 2018 11:05 am

This thread is definitely a leading contender for worst in UTS history.

Mazza01
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Fri May 11, 2018 11:09 am

aaaae wrote:This thread is definitely a leading contender for worst in UTS history.


happy to second that , mind-numbing drivel.

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Fri May 11, 2018 11:36 am

Mazza01 wrote:
aaaae wrote:This thread is definitely a leading contender for worst in UTS history.


happy to second that , mind-numbing drivel.


Thread summary.

Voted In - "Im right"

Voted Out "No, I'm right"

Voted In - "Provide evidence you're right"

Voted Out - "You provide evidence you're right"

*No solid evidence provided by either*

Voted In - *Shares a pointless link* "Look, I'm right"

Voted Out - *Shares a pointless link* "No, look at this, I'm right"

Voted In - "REVOTE, REVOTE, REVOTE!! I didnt get my way so REVOTE!!"

Voted Out - "No. This is a DEMOCRACY"

Voted In - "So, I want it my way. We were fed lies!!"

Voted Out - *Posts another pointless link*

Voted In - *Posts another link*

Voted Out - "Wheres this financial Armageddon that was predicted?!!"

Voted In - "We haven't left yet. But I'm still right with no real proof"

And so on.

I will say one thing, if you don't like the thread, just ignore :wink: ... But I agree, worst thread since the Sound Out days.

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SaigonSaddler
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Fri May 11, 2018 12:10 pm

Except our growth has slipped from being one of the G20s strongest to one of the weakest, the pound has dropped and has yet to recover, making imports more expensive and the grand plan to leave is an ongoing miasma and indecision and stupidity - all since the vote to leave.

None of these are predictions, but the kind of evidence people keep asking for, then ignoring.

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shrewsbury saddler
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Fri May 11, 2018 12:26 pm

Cowshed wrote:
shrewsbury saddler wrote:
Cowshed wrote:
shrewsbury saddler wrote:
Manchester Saddler wrote:Aside from Swampy being taken to the cleaners by Sound Out too ... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Swampy aside, I would like to know what people think will genuinely happen.

May's position is weaker now than it has been and she is being attacked by members of her own cabinet as well as the uber-Brexiters on one side and the Remainers on the other.

Add to this the House of Lords and the Labour Party and you have one unholy mess just at the time we need a plan.

You all know my thoughts on this - what do the rest of you think?

What will happen? We'll end up with an agreement which leaves both sides asking, "What's the point of leaving?"

Longer term, I suspect the legacy of the leave campaign will be future generations having the Euro-not one of the EU's best ideas. A decade or so down the line, UK will have to rejoin,and the rules insist new members adopt the Euro. Another reason for millennials to hate baby-boomers.





If the uk debt to gdp ratio is reduced sufficiently to meet the euro entrance criteria I will be very pleased

Are we going tits up or not make your mind up

You seem to think that eurozone convergence criteria have to be met on joining the EU. They don't.



I thought the point related to having to adopt the euro as a currency are you saying the debt to gdp ratios are no longer relevant and any country irrespective of high debt to gdp can take part in the European monetary union?

It's a two stage process. The criteria for joining are pretty loose , so even a "tits up" UK would probably meet them. But new members have to work to adopting the Euro. (Remember the Scottish referendum and the debate whether an independent Scotland would be a new member and have to adopt it.)

I suppose UK could try and get its opt-out back but I can't see the other members agreeing unanimously to that. Or they could just steer clear of meeting the convergence criteria , or cook the books, but I think the other members would be wise and cover that in the initial treaty. They could try "we'll cross that bridge when we get to it," but that's not a popular approach at the moment , for some reason.

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Fri May 11, 2018 12:29 pm

SaigonSaddler wrote:Except our growth has slipped from being one of the G20s strongest to one of the weakest, the pound has dropped and has yet to recover, making imports more expensive and the grand plan to leave is an ongoing miasma and indecision and stupidity - all since the vote to leave.

None of these are predictions, but the kind of evidence people keep asking for, then ignoring.


This is what amazes me. People ignore this stuff because it's not "Armageddon". As if anything other than "Armageddon" is a success.

Shite costs more. That's enough for me to think it was the wrong decision at the minute. Some people are pacified by there being fewer brown people around though. Simple as.

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Fri May 11, 2018 12:34 pm

Why this talk about us joining the Euro? It will never happen.

We will never again be part of the EU let alone the Eurozone.

The EU will carry on with it's relentless aim for closer and closer union (i.e. United States of Europe) and the populations of EU countries will begin to wake up to what a stupid and flawed idea that is and demand they have the chance of bailing out.

There's more chance of the EU crumbling than us re-joining, thankfully.

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Fri May 11, 2018 12:41 pm

tinned wrote:Why this talk about us joining the Euro? It will never happen.

We will never again be part of the EU let alone the Eurozone.

The EU will carry on with it's relentless aim for closer and closer union (i.e. United States of Europe) and the populations of EU countries will begin to wake up to what a stupid and flawed idea that is and demand they have the chance of bailing out.

There's more chance of the EU crumbling than us re-joining, thankfully.


Oh yeah. Only a matter of time until it does now the mighty United Kingdom have up and left...

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tinned
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Fri May 11, 2018 12:44 pm

El_Nombre wrote:
tinned wrote:Why this talk about us joining the Euro? It will never happen.

We will never again be part of the EU let alone the Eurozone.

The EU will carry on with it's relentless aim for closer and closer union (i.e. United States of Europe) and the populations of EU countries will begin to wake up to what a stupid and flawed idea that is and demand they have the chance of bailing out.

There's more chance of the EU crumbling than us re-joining, thankfully.


Oh yeah. Only a matter of time until it does now the mighty United Kingdom have up and left...


Don't put words in my mouth.

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SaigonSaddler
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Fri May 11, 2018 12:46 pm

tinned wrote:Why this talk about us joining the Euro? It will never happen.

We will never again be part of the EU let alone the Eurozone.

The EU will carry on with it's relentless aim for closer and closer union (i.e. United States of Europe) and the populations of EU countries will begin to wake up to what a stupid and flawed idea that is and demand they have the chance of bailing out.

There's more chance of the EU crumbling than us re-joining, thankfully.


Wrong. We'll be falling over ourselves to join again, just after 15 or 20 years of painful dithering and self-harm, when we've cack out a selfish, backward thinking and parochial generation.

Why? Simple pragmatics. The EU is the largest trading block on earth, why would we endure self-imposed economic exile? People have been confidently predicting the demise of the EU since day one and it's never happened. Because people recognise the idea is sound.

It'll happen far more quickly than you think.

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tinned
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Fri May 11, 2018 12:52 pm

SaigonSaddler wrote:
tinned wrote:Why this talk about us joining the Euro? It will never happen.

We will never again be part of the EU let alone the Eurozone.

The EU will carry on with it's relentless aim for closer and closer union (i.e. United States of Europe) and the populations of EU countries will begin to wake up to what a stupid and flawed idea that is and demand they have the chance of bailing out.

There's more chance of the EU crumbling than us re-joining, thankfully.


Wrong. We'll be falling over ourselves to join again, just after 15 or 20 years of painful dithering and self-harm, when we've cack out a selfish, backward thinking and parochial generation.

Why? Simple pragmatics. The EU is the largest trading block on earth, why would we endure self-imposed economic exile? People have been confidently predicting the demise of the EU since day one and it's never happened. Because people recognise the idea is sound.

It'll happen far more quickly than you think.


I'll buy you an evening's worth of ale if we ever fully re-join :mrgreen:

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Fri May 11, 2018 12:54 pm

seventies_saddler wrote:
PINNACLE wrote:Parliament gave the decision to the British people, didn't like it and so took it away.
For the 3rd time............i voted leave and that is all you need to know.
I will leave the name calling to you and your friends...................very mature !


How have they taken it away? We're still leaving as per the vote. Parliament are just exercising the sovereign democracy you Brexiteers are always banging on about. They are simply reacting to the attempt to subvert democracy by 'lunatic fringe' in the House of Commons who are trying to sneak through a load of extras not mentioned on the ballot paper.


' We need UK sovereign parliament to take back control!'

' well, that's what is happening, the UK's political and legal mechanisms are now following through process?'

' No! that's not what my Daily cack rag promised me! traitors!'

El_Nombre
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Fri May 11, 2018 1:15 pm

tinned wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
tinned wrote:Why this talk about us joining the Euro? It will never happen.

We will never again be part of the EU let alone the Eurozone.

The EU will carry on with it's relentless aim for closer and closer union (i.e. United States of Europe) and the populations of EU countries will begin to wake up to what a stupid and flawed idea that is and demand they have the chance of bailing out.

There's more chance of the EU crumbling than us re-joining, thankfully.


Oh yeah. Only a matter of time until it does now the mighty United Kingdom have up and left...


Don't put words in my mouth.


It won't crumble without the UK?

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NEWPORT SADDLERS DAD
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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Fri May 11, 2018 4:47 pm

SaigonSaddler wrote:
tinned wrote:Why this talk about us joining the Euro? It will never happen.

We will never again be part of the EU let alone the Eurozone.

The EU will carry on with it's relentless aim for closer and closer union (i.e. United States of Europe) and the populations of EU countries will begin to wake up to what a stupid and flawed idea that is and demand they have the chance of bailing out.

There's more chance of the EU crumbling than us re-joining, thankfully.


Wrong. We'll be falling over ourselves to join again, just after 15 or 20 years of painful dithering and self-harm, when we've cack out a selfish, backward thinking and parochial generation.

Why? Simple pragmatics. The EU is the largest trading block on earth, why would we endure self-imposed economic exile? People have been confidently predicting the demise of the EU since day one and it's never happened. Because people recognise the idea is sound.

It'll happen far more quickly than you think.



Thats a hell of a crystal ball you have, can you do lottery numbers or grand national winners.

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Re: Brexit Breakfast

Fri May 11, 2018 8:43 pm

What will happen? We'll end up with an agreement which leaves both sides asking, "What's the point of leaving?"

Longer term, I suspect the legacy of the leave campaign will be future generations having the Euro-not one of the EU's best ideas. A decade or so down the line, UK will have to rejoin,and the rules insist new members adopt the Euro. Another reason for millennials to hate baby-boomers.[/quote]




If the uk debt to gdp ratio is reduced sufficiently to meet the euro entrance criteria I will be very pleased

Are we going tits up or not make your mind up[/quote]
You seem to think that eurozone convergence criteria have to be met on joining the EU. They don't.[/quote]


I thought the point related to having to adopt the euro as a currency are you saying the debt to gdp ratios are no longer relevant and any country irrespective of high debt to gdp can take part in the European monetary union?[/quote]
It's a two stage process. The criteria for joining are pretty loose , so even a "tits up" UK would probably meet them. But new members have to work to adopting the Euro. (Remember the Scottish referendum and the debate whether an independent Scotland would be a new member and have to adopt it.)

I suppose UK could try and get its opt-out back but I can't see the other members agreeing unanimously to that. Or they could just steer clear of meeting the convergence criteria , or cook the books, but I think the other members would be wise and cover that in the initial treaty. They could try "we'll cross that bridge when we get to it," but that's not a popular approach at the moment , for some reason.[/quote]

So the rule about no more than 60% debt to gdp is just typical eu guff for we will set rules but not actually keep to them because we are chaotic and dysfunctional and most of our members are in such a mess we could never keep to the ratio. Oh by the way if the uk wants to come back we will turn a blind eye because we get another chance to milk them dry.

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