Boring

[chunkster]

Finland, Sweden, Estonia, Latvia, Italy, France, Czech Republic, Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia, Bulgaria, Turkey, Greece, Spain and Portugal ...

I've had the good fortune to go travelling in these countries in recent weeks and months.
Brexit has been discussed with various denizens and I can report some recurrent themes:

People can't understand why we voted out, and all thought it a strange decision and mistake.
The general opinion is *shrug* Europe will trundle on regardless, there wasn't the appetite to break out and go it alone.
People expressed the opinion that Europe was better together and welcome the opportunity to acquire some of the business leaving Britain - especially financial services and other services which Britain had been allotted.
The British are very much liked in Europe in my experience, especially in Scandinavia and Portugal. The French and Germans had critics in some countries.

My faves are Portugal and Turkey.
Great cities are Rome, Barcelona, Budapest, Istanbul, Porto, Paris, Prague and Lisbon.

Been to Turkey can't say i am a fan, stopped off in Hungary on my way to purchase some land in Bulgaria, the people in both contries were superb and very hospitable. never fancied Portugal, but as i am retiring at the spritely age of 57 next year, Rome is on my list with Australia,New Zealand, Thailand and Singapore :)

I think some of the hard-core tourist resorts in Turkey can be a bit cack, rude younger staff and bland local towns. Don't know if you went here or any of the other parts, but some of the other places are truly epic and the people great.

Ye tourist locations, Sarigerme, we went on the jeep safari, lets just say health and safety takes a backward seat over there, a couple of weeks after we got back, it was on the front pages of the national newspapers for crashing and killing a dad and his daughter :( . We also took a minibus trip. and as we were making our way up a mountain road we encountered a woman of about 70 years of age carrying what looked like half a tree on her back for use for firewood, and we think we have it bad over here :(

[Cowshed]

And you know my views on brexit. It was the only reason I have ever voted Tory because Cameron said he was giving us the vote. And I STILL think we made the correct decision despite all the shite we get from bremainers :roll: and I would vote the same again tomorrow so chew on that :mrgreen:

Well I hope you're not personally affected by the shitstorm that will arrive on our shores.

I've canvassed opinion from various foreigners since the vote, both in Europe and further afield and the one constant is that they consider us to be idiots for voting out of the EU.

Chew on that!

:mrgreen:

I wonder what those same foreigners will be saying in 20 years time when they're living in The United States Of Europe and economic, financial & political decisions are being made for the benefit of France & Germany?

Ah - another myth peddled by the Daily Express.

You should try chatting to people in Europe about this. I had an interesting chat with a Dutch guy in Amsterdam about Theresa May and Brexit and he was just laughing at the farce that is happening over here. To him, it is like a sensationalised fiction plot for a satirical novel - a joke!

And he's right.

When you see people OUTSIDE Europe shaking their heads in disbelief at why we are leaving Europe ,you catch a glimpse of what the rest of the world think about what we have done.

Still, old chap - stiff upper lip, eh? We can cope with any shitstorm can't we? We're British!

We're the laughing stock of the world at the moment (well apart from Donald J Trump being President of the US of course :D).

So we are called idiots and are laughing stock of the world.

In that case we must urgently reverse the decision .

Anything to seek global approval

[swampysaddler]

And you know my views on brexit. It was the only reason I have ever voted Tory because Cameron said he was giving us the vote. And I STILL think we made the correct decision despite all the shite we get from bremainers :roll: and I would vote the same again tomorrow so chew on that :mrgreen:

Well I hope you're not personally affected by the shitstorm that will arrive on our shores.

I've canvassed opinion from various foreigners since the vote, both in Europe and further afield and the one constant is that they consider us to be idiots for voting out of the EU.

Chew on that!

:mrgreen:

I wonder what those same foreigners will be saying in 20 years time when they're living in The United States Of Europe and economic, financial & political decisions are being made for the benefit of France & Germany?

Ah - another myth peddled by the Daily Express.

You should try chatting to people in Europe about this. I had an interesting chat with a Dutch guy in Amsterdam about Theresa May and Brexit and he was just laughing at the farce that is happening over here. To him, it is like a sensationalised fiction plot for a satirical novel - a joke!

And he's right.

When you see people OUTSIDE Europe shaking their heads in disbelief at why we are leaving Europe ,you catch a glimpse of what the rest of the world think about what we have done.

Still, old chap - stiff upper lip, eh? We can cope with any shitstorm can't we? We're British!

We're the laughing stock of the world at the moment (well apart from Donald J Trump being President of the US of course :D).

Glad to see that you haven't changed Manchester.
As per normal if it isn't printed in the Guardian, everything is a myth or a lie.
I did once think you was open minded and would accept views with different opinions to your own, how wrong was I.
Still living in your little shell clinging to the pipe dream that Brexit won't happen.
Wake up call, it is happening and the sooner the better.
One sentence for you and any other lover of a bunch of un-elected, corrupt, alcoholic, money grabbing parasites called the EU, "We are leaving, 03/2019, so suck it up buttercup".

[tinned]

We are in a bizarre situation where the majority of MPs want to remain but they are terrified to go against "the will of the people" (a very small majority) in case they lose their seat at the next election.

That's why we had what's called a referendum. The politicians decided the decision was so important that it should be handed over to the general public. Any MP that ignores the will of the people deserves all they might get.

[Exile]

We are in a bizarre situation where the majority of MPs want to remain but they are terrified to go against "the will of the people" (a very small majority) in case they lose their seat at the next election.

That's why we had what's called a referendum. The politicians decided the decision was so important that it should be handed over to the general public. Any MP that ignores the will of the people deserves all they might get.

You had what's called a referendum because Cameron (remember him?) made it an election pledge, so sure was he that he'd win. It was also a non-binding referendum, so the result could be safely ignored.

Since then the debate got hijacked and reduced to absurdity by xenophobic twunts like Farage and Johnson, peddling lies that were gleefully repeated by mainstream media. It's no surprise there's a correlation between level of education and reluctance to exit.

[Manchester Saddler]

So we are called idiots and are laughing stock of the world.

In that case we must urgently reverse the decision .

Anything to seek global approval

Yes! I am hoping that common sense will ultimately prevail. But, sadly, it won't as long as people aren't willing to admit their mistake or politicians are only interested in their own careers over sanity.

America is more of a laughing stock - but ultimately you may even see that decision reversed when Trump is finally impeached.

:D

[Manchester Saddler]

We are in a bizarre situation where the majority of MPs want to remain but they are terrified to go against "the will of the people" (a very small majority) in case they lose their seat at the next election.

That's why we had what's called a referendum. The politicians decided the decision was so important that it should be handed over to the general public. Any MP that ignores the will of the people deserves all they might get.

Yeah - we were lied to during that referendum (both sides actually).

It should never have happened and, for that, Cameron and the Conservative Party will be blamed when the shitstorm arrives.

And it will.

Come back in a few years. It's a real shame that the original Brexit thread disappeared. It would make interesting reading when we are up to our knees in the brown smelly stuff.

[Manchester Saddler]

Glad to see that you haven't changed Manchester.
As per normal if it isn't printed in the Guardian, everything is a myth or a lie.
I did once think you was open minded and would accept views with different opinions to your own, how wrong was I.
Still living in your little shell clinging to the pipe dream that Brexit won't happen.
Wake up call, it is happening and the sooner the better.
One sentence for you and any other lover of a bunch of un-elected, corrupt, alcoholic, money grabbing parasites called the EU, "We are leaving, 03/2019, so suck it up buttercup".

What do you expect Swampy? :D

Like I said before, this isn't a left v right issue (as you can see with the Conservative Party self-destructing before our eyes).

The reason I pick on the Daily Express and the Daily Mail in particular is that they accuse migrants and immigrants of terrible things on a daily basis.

Here's a few for you:

"Time To Silence EU Exit Whingers"

"1 Million Migrants To Rush In Before EU Exit"

"311 Languages Spoken In Our Schools"

"Britain's 40% Surge In Ethnic Numbers"

"Enemies Of The People"

You only see such headlines in these two poisonous rags. No wonder people are swayed by the lies.

And, as you know - or I keep telling you (but you don't listen) - I don't read ANY newspaper - just the headlines on the BBC website every day. You don't see such headlines in the Telegraph (Tory), the Times (Tory) or the Guardian (Labour).

I think what you, and most Brexiteers still fail to understand is that this country is totally divided over Brexit.

I think it is a colossal mistake. Nothing will change my mind.

And yes, I pray that common sense will prevail and we will reverse the decision. I am not going to fall in line and accept it. If the boot were on the other foot, you wouldn't either - you've said as much in previous arguments, We elect a new government every five years (or every year or two when the PM totally misjudges the electorate like Theresa May did). People change their minds. Why shouldn't people change their minds now?

Nothing is cast in stone - and given the way the government is screwing everything up, people probably already are.

"un-elected, corrupt, alcoholic, money grabbing parasites called the EU" - nice sentiment - could apply to the House of Lords (unelected), any MP (corrupt), any MP (alcoholic - the booze culture in the House of Commons is legendary as recent events have shown), any Tory MP (money-grabbing parasites - look at the expenses debacle plus cash for questions).

Maybe we should look at our own doorstep before casting the first stone.

:mrgreen:

[chunkster]

Do you know what the sad fact is about all of this? we voted out even though the country was split, but the sad losers are that insenced that they lost they are making it their life's mission to scupper any deal that would make it look like it could work :| just so they can say "we told you so" if they put as much effort into making it work we could all be better off. SAD SAD BARSTEWARD'S :|

[Cheesebag]

We did all the important stuff years ago, when the pinnacle of debate was achieved with the 'hello wat your favrit film' thread.

Never again can we attain such glory.

Well thank you :D

[Manchester Saddler]

Do you know what the sad fact is about all of this? we voted out even though the country was split, but the sad losers are that insenced that they lost they are making it their life's mission to scupper any deal that would make it look like it could work :| just so they can say "we told you so" if they put as much effort into making it work we could all be better off. SAD SAD BARSTEWARD'S :|

It will never work so your comment is irrelevant.

[chunkster]

Do you know what the sad fact is about all of this? we voted out even though the country was split, but the sad losers are that insenced that they lost they are making it their life's mission to scupper any deal that would make it look like it could work :| just so they can say "we told you so" if they put as much effort into making it work we could all be better off. SAD SAD BARSTEWARD'S :|

It will never work so your comment is irrelevant.

says one of the sad losers i was talking about :lol:

[tinned]

Do you know what the sad fact is about all of this? we voted out even though the country was split, but the sad losers are that insenced that they lost they are making it their life's mission to scupper any deal that would make it look like it could work :| just so they can say "we told you so" if they put as much effort into making it work we could all be better off. SAD SAD BARSTEWARD'S :|

It will never work so your comment is irrelevant.

says one of the sad losers i was talking about :lol:

It's people like Manchester that will eventually cause problems with Brexit. They will talk us into economic meltdown.

[Manchester Saddler]

Do you know what the sad fact is about all of this? we voted out even though the country was split, but the sad losers are that insenced that they lost they are making it their life's mission to scupper any deal that would make it look like it could work :| just so they can say "we told you so" if they put as much effort into making it work we could all be better off. SAD SAD BARSTEWARD'S :|

It will never work so your comment is irrelevant.

says one of the sad losers i was talking about :lol:

It's people like Manchester that will eventually cause problems with Brexit. They will talk us into economic meltdown.

Ah - if I had the power. :D

Chunkster - didn't know you were an expert in anything at all.

Please enlighten me as to why I am a "sad loser" for sticking to my beliefs.

Tell me why I am wrong.

I am all ears ...

[El_Nombre]

Do you know what the sad fact is about all of this? we voted out even though the country was split, but the sad losers are that insenced that they lost they are making it their life's mission to scupper any deal that would make it look like it could work :| just so they can say "we told you so" if they put as much effort into making it work we could all be better off. SAD SAD BARSTEWARD'S :|

Jesus this argument. You mean I'm not pulling to make something work that I don't want to happen in the first place? Shocking.

It's almost like the people who promised this should be the ones who have to make it work. I didn't vote for 350 million pounds or whatever it was to be put into the NHS and am still waiting for it. I didn't vote to pay billions of pounds just for the divorce bill. I didn't vote for massive risks in trade markets.

Anybody that voted leave did. But now it's my fault it's not working? I'm sure leavers would have been equally supportive if it had been a remain majority. And we are supposed to be the delicate snowflakes, always moaning :roll:

[Wragbyred]

Do you know what the sad fact is about all of this? we voted out even though the country was split, but the sad losers are that insenced that they lost they are making it their life's mission to scupper any deal that would make it look like it could work :| just so they can say "we told you so" if they put as much effort into making it work we could all be better off. SAD SAD BARSTEWARD'S :|

It will never work so your comment is irrelevant.

says one of the sad losers i was talking about :lol:

It's people like Manchester that will eventually cause problems with Brexit. They will talk us into economic meltdown.

Ah - if I had the power. :D

Chunkster - didn't know you were an expert in anything at all.

Please enlighten me as to why I am a "sad loser" for sticking to my beliefs.

Tell me why I am wrong.

I am all ears ...

So Manchester, tell all the Racist, mistaken, self servant, idiotic Brexiteers why you are right.
You seem to have an incredible insight into the future, would love to find out how you KNOW we are heading for a "shitstorm"

P.S.. got this weekends winning lottery numbers?

[Manchester Saddler]

So Manchester, tell all the Racist, mistaken, self servant, idiotic Brexiteers why you are right.
You seem to have an incredible insight into the future, would love to find out how you KNOW we are heading for a "shitstorm"

P.S.. got this weekends winning lottery numbers?

OUCH!!

You're not the first one to crack the "lottery/crystal ball" gag.. I answered that one on another thread. The Lottery is pure chance, whereas the signs of the shitstorm are appearing slowly every day.

I think the phrase "engaged in a slow suicide" is fairly apt - and this is not from a Remainer - it is from a foreign and well-travelled journalist.

I kind of miss the very first thread on this topic because I did a lot of research and wrote a post about my findings. If it still exists, perhaps a mod can resurrect it or at least up to the point was ruined by Sound Out.

I can't recall everything I wrote but the bottom line was that I was watching the news, listening to commentary from both sides, researching and forming an opinion and I concluded that leaving the EU would ultimately be a huge mistake for many reasons. The symptoms wouldn't manifest themselves for a while but we would be much worse off. This news came from loads of sources both internally in the UK and externally.

I have had some decent chats with Brexiteers since the domesday vote trying to understand what possessed them. Your description of Brexiteers as "Racist, mistaken, self servant, idiotic" is a little paranoid to be honest but there are elements of truth in each word.

"Racist" - take a look at UKIP. You can acknowledge that there are racists in this country and you can guarantee that most of them voted out. From a less extreme viewpoint, there was a lot of xenophobia. Some of the older generation seem to think that "they are stealing our jobs". Some of the younger generation seem to think that "we are full as an island - there's no room!" Interestingly both are myths so some of these people are in the "mistaken" category.

A lot of Brexiteers are under the misapprehension that the EU make our laws. They don't. Look it up. What they do is provide guidance for trade, various regulations etc. to enable smooth running between the member states. I can't recall the exact details but if the mods find my post that will enlighten you. Another myth - the amount of money we hand over to the EU was grossly exaggerated. £350 million is one thing but the rebates we got back were rather large and funded a hell of a lot of projects all over the UK, something that was not really reported that much. The "billions" we lose is therefore blown out of all proportion. Check the figures yourself - it's all over the internet. We will lose out on that because governments will not supply the shortfall and subsidies we currently get - austerity anyone?

We are the 5th biggest economy in the world. That won't last long. We are there because of the EU not in spite of it and figures show that the rest are catching up since article 50 was invoked. Expect a drop soon.

Those expecting a clean break are dreaming. The EU want to make an example of us to deter any other states from leaving. That will happen and that IS happening right now. Look at the negotiations.

Worse, as EU citizens we had rights in Europe that we will now lose. Freedom of movement works two ways and young people who may have seen their future in a European country will now have that dream shattered. I feel particularly bitter about this because my plans for retirement are now all scuppered. I have been stripped of a privilege - and that hurts a lot.

Many Brexiteers will hail the fact that freedom of movement will go because they don't want foreigners taking our jobs. Think about that for a moment. Is that a wise move? Really? WIth the NHS relying on EU staff (amongst others), with my own company employing excellent EU nationals who will no longer be able to do so? If I had any plans to move to Germany for work then I can forget it.

And the economy - yes indeed. Your average Brexiteer dismissed experts advice, economists, business leaders, finance experts etc. because "they know better". Really? Fred the Butcher know more about world economics and business than a highly paid expert in the field? I'm sure it feels great to stand your ground when you know nothing and say "that showed them" without realising the consequences of your vote.

The economic fallout will be slow. Brexiteers expected the economy to crash the day after the result and when it didn't they said "I told you so - you scaremongering Snowflake." What they do not realise is that (a) we haven't left yet, (b) the economic fallout will be gradual (c) business leaders are still hoping that Brexit doesn't happen. Look at the evidence. Watch the news - it's all there.

You can see the pound fall sharply - my holidays in Europe this year have been really expensive thanks to the pound being so weak. Every time something happens it falls again. What do you think will happen on the day we leave? Look at the evidence. Watch the news - it's all there.

Many companies are starting to look at moving to the continent. Look at the evidence. Watch the news - it's all there.

Many foreigners and foreign governments are queuing up to say we have messed up big time. Look at the evidence. Watch the news. It's all there.

Our own parliament has more Remainers than Brexiteers and we find ourselves in the situation where the government are debating and voting on something they do not want to happen. The Tories are split down the middle - just like the population. Look at the evidence. Watch the news. It's all there.

And most of our laws are passed by a bunch of unelected Lords. How ironic!

Now then!

Can somebody please tell me why Brexit is a good thing?

I'm all ears,

:D

[chunkster]

Do you know what the sad fact is about all of this? we voted out even though the country was split, but the sad losers are that insenced that they lost they are making it their life's mission to scupper any deal that would make it look like it could work :| just so they can say "we told you so" if they put as much effort into making it work we could all be better off. SAD SAD BARSTEWARD'S :|

It will never work so your comment is irrelevant.

says one of the sad losers i was talking about :lol:

It's people like Manchester that will eventually cause problems with Brexit. They will talk us into economic meltdown.

Ah - if I had the power. :D

Chunkster - didn't know you were an expert in anything at all.

Please enlighten me as to why I am a "sad loser" for sticking to my beliefs.

Tell me why I am wrong.

I am all ears ...

you haven't got to be an expert to realise that voting out of Europe was right, and sticking to your beliefs doesn't make you a sad loser, it is the way you keep sticking to the belief that you can still turn it around or at least try to :roll: here's a radical thought, why don't we all stick together and MAKE it work so that the country gets the best deal that it can? instead of the cronies you support trying to sabotage it :roll: and i know a surgeon that could sort those ears out for ya :mrgreen:

[chunkster]

Do you know what the sad fact is about all of this? we voted out even though the country was split, but the sad losers are that insenced that they lost they are making it their life's mission to scupper any deal that would make it look like it could work :| just so they can say "we told you so" if they put as much effort into making it work we could all be better off. SAD SAD BARSTEWARD'S :|

Jesus this argument. You mean I'm not pulling to make something work that I don't want to happen in the first place? Shocking.

It's almost like the people who promised this should be the ones who have to make it work. I didn't vote for 350 million pounds or whatever it was to be put into the NHS and am still waiting for it. I didn't vote to pay billions of pounds just for the divorce bill. I didn't vote for massive risks in trade markets.

Anybody that voted leave did. But now it's my fault it's not working? I'm sure leavers would have been equally supportive if it had been a remain majority. And we are supposed to be the delicate snowflakes, always moaning :roll:

Have you got a persecution complex? i was talking about the politicians not wanting it to work, mind you, if they hadn't got the support from deluded voters like yourself then they would probably start to accept the situation :roll:

[swampysaddler]

Do you know what the sad fact is about all of this? we voted out even though the country was split, but the sad losers are that insenced that they lost they are making it their life's mission to scupper any deal that would make it look like it could work :| just so they can say "we told you so" if they put as much effort into making it work we could all be better off. SAD SAD BARSTEWARD'S :|

Jesus this argument. You mean I'm not pulling to make something work that I don't want to happen in the first place? Shocking.

It's almost like the people who promised this should be the ones who have to make it work. I didn't vote for 350 million pounds or whatever it was to be put into the NHS and am still waiting for it. I didn't vote to pay billions of pounds just for the divorce bill. I didn't vote for massive risks in trade markets.

Anybody that voted leave did. But now it's my fault it's not working? I'm sure leavers would have been equally supportive if it had been a remain majority. And we are supposed to be the delicate snowflakes, always moaning :roll:

Of course you didn't, and no-one is telling you otherwise.
But let's not let the hard facts of the £350 million printed on the bus was a "suggestion" of what it could be spent on not a promise !!!
But hey listen to all the Remainers and their campaign WASN'T full of bullshit and scaremongering tactics, it was all a bed of lovely roses.

[Manchester Saddler]

you haven't got to be an expert to realise that voting out of Europe was right, and sticking to your beliefs doesn't make you a sad loser, it is the way you keep sticking to the belief that you can still turn it around or at least try to :roll: here's a radical thought, why don't we all stick together and MAKE it work so that the country gets the best deal that it can? instead of the cronies you support trying to sabotage it :roll: and i know a surgeon that could sort those ears out for ya :mrgreen:

Er no it wasn't right.

And you can't even start to tell me why I'm wrong. That says something.

Over 48% of the people of this country are with me. That's a lot of people, mate.

[reedswood sadler]

If you believe remainers I am your typical brexiter old, white and therefore must be racist, Bullshit I find it very offensive to be labeled this by people who know nothing about me ask friends workmates and neighbours before casting everyone the same.

I voted leave and would do again but as I have said in the old thread I do not think a lot of people voted on the issue of the EU but used it as a protest vote by the "little" people north of Watford who were and still are ignored by the London Elite who only think of themselves and nobody else.
People were losing jobs and struggling due to industries closing down and some moving to EU countries.

Cameron is to blame for calling a referendum because he thought it was a no brainer the peasants would vote as the experts who were trying to make sure the gravy train carried on told them .

Result split country and him not having the guts to carry on as as promised.

[chunkster]

you haven't got to be an expert to realise that voting out of Europe was right, and sticking to your beliefs doesn't make you a sad loser, it is the way you keep sticking to the belief that you can still turn it around or at least try to :roll: here's a radical thought, why don't we all stick together and MAKE it work so that the country gets the best deal that it can? instead of the cronies you support trying to sabotage it :roll: and i know a surgeon that could sort those ears out for ya :mrgreen:

Er no it wasn't right.

And you can't even start to tell me why I'm wrong. That says something.

Over 48% of the people of this country are with me. That's a lot of people, mate.

so were the other 52% with me???? mate

[swampysaddler]

you haven't got to be an expert to realise that voting out of Europe was right, and sticking to your beliefs doesn't make you a sad loser, it is the way you keep sticking to the belief that you can still turn it around or at least try to :roll: here's a radical thought, why don't we all stick together and MAKE it work so that the country gets the best deal that it can? instead of the cronies you support trying to sabotage it :roll: and i know a surgeon that could sort those ears out for ya :mrgreen:

Er no it wasn't right.

And you can't even start to tell me why I'm wrong. That says something.

Over 48% of the people of this country are with me. That's a lot of people, mate.

Granted that is a lot of people but 52% are against you. That is slightly more than 48% last time I checked.
But lets not let hard facts and figures get in the way of your pipe dream, and that is all it is a pipe dream, that the Referendum will be rerun (or best of 5, 7, 9 scenario till the petulant remainers get their way).

[Manchester Saddler]

@Reedswood - Nobody said you were racist but you raise an interesting point about a protest vote. Quite a few people said "I didn't think we would REALLY LEAVE!" and others have admitted to being so shallow that they thought they would oust Cameron. They were right I suppose in that he ran away from his responsibilities like the coward that he is. What really irks me is that the hard Brexiteers are now saying "We voted for a HARD BREXIT!" We didn't. And anybody who did use it as a protest vote against Cameron and realises what he/she has done must be kicking themselves for their stupidity. That fact alone makes a complete mockery of the referendum result.

And that leads me nicely to Chunkster and Swampy. Some Brexiteers I have spoken to regret their decision and the majority was so small that if we were to have a referendum again, the result could be a lot different. Love him or loathe him, Jeremy Corbyn did amazingly well in the last election because for once the youth turned out and voted for him.

Imagine if that had happened during the referendum?

After all, really it is the young who will suffer most from Brexit; by the time the shitstorm has really established itself they will be right in the thick of it. I fear less for myself than I do for my kids.

And if you look at the distribution of votes, the young who actually turned out were overwhelmingly in favour of Remaining. Imagine how they will feel in 20 years when most of the old Brexiteers have popped off?

I think we should have a referendum because now we know MORE about will happen, more people will be informed of the consequences and the young vote will increase.

And I'm still waiting for Brexiteers to tell me why I'm wrong about the things I say.

The truth is, I believe, that deep down you know I'm right and simply can't convince me otherwise.

Prove me wrong, guys.

I'm waiting.

[swampysaddler]

@Reedswood - Nobody said you were racist but you raise an interesting point about a protest vote. Quite a few people said "I didn't think we would REALLY LEAVE!" and others have admitted to being so shallow that they thought they would oust Cameron. They were right I suppose in that he ran away from his responsibilities like the coward that he is. What really irks me is that the hard Brexiteers are now saying "We voted for a HARD BREXIT!" We didn't. And anybody who did use it as a protest vote against Cameron and realises what he/she has done must be kicking themselves for their stupidity. That fact alone makes a complete mockery of the referendum result.

And that leads me nicely to Chunkster and Swampy. Some Brexiteers I have spoken to regret their decision and the majority was so small that if we were to have a referendum again, the result could be a lot different. Love him or loathe him, Jeremy Corbyn did amazingly well in the last election because for once the youth turned out and voted for him.

Imagine if that had happened during the referendum?

After all, really it is the young who will suffer most from Brexit; by the time the shitstorm has really established itself they will be right in the thick of it. I fear less for myself than I do for my kids.

And if you look at the distribution of votes, the young who actually turned out were overwhelmingly in favour of Remaining. Imagine how they will feel in 20 years when most of the old Brexiteers have popped off?

I think we should have a referendum because now we know MORE about will happen, more people will be informed of the consequences and the young vote will increase.

And I'm still waiting for Brexiteers to tell me why I'm wrong about the things I say.

The truth is, I believe, that deep down you know I'm right and simply can't convince me otherwise.

Prove me wrong, guys.

I'm waiting.

This would be the "youth" that were voting twice in GE (from their home address and college/university address, which is being investigated), that have never had the unfortunate pleasure of living under a debt ridden Labour party and were promised unicorns and free tuition off Corbyn and his cronies (that was all funded by the magic money tree in Mr Anti Austerity Jeremy Corbyn's childhood multi bed-roomed home in leafy Shropshire).
Poor person to use as backup to your claims of Armageddon, which never materialized last June as predicted by numerous Remainers.

[JonnyOwen]

This would be the "youth" that have never had the unfortunate pleasure of living under a debt ridden Labour party and were promised unicorns and free tuition off Corbyn and his cronies (that was all funded by the magic money tree in Mr Anti Austerity Jeremy Corbyn's childhood multi bed-roomed home in leafy Shropshire).
Poor person to use as backup to your claims of Armageddon, which never materialized last June as predicted by numerous Remainers.

The very same OLD Labour that has been made painfully clear is very different from new Labour (that was a laughing stock for a while). So using the "the youth haven't experienced economy destroying labour" argument isn't very relevant now.

What we youth HAVE experienced is the current Tory party of greedy and self serving politicians that only care about themselves and the rich, with the public services fully demolished and young people case to the side as an afterthought (the same people that some of those who voted Leave in protest against). It's odd that we'd vote in-mass for someone who actual considers us relevant.

I'll ignore the "magic money tree" comment cause it's laughable to still hear that line being traipsed out still, I'll just leave this here: :lol:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/magic-money-tree-false-but-enchanted-brexit-fountain-real-20170602128690

Poor person to use as backup to your claims of Armageddon, which never materialized last June as predicted by numerous Remainers.

Go on then, tell us "Remainers" ONE positive change that has occurred because of us voting Leave. For every one (if there even is one) I could provide dozens of negatives. It may not have been sudden day 1 Armageddon, but only negatives have been coming from it.

[Surrey Saddler]

I am still not convinced Brexit will happen. I realise it may be wishful thinking. As for the "will of the people" argument, it is our elected representatives who should decide for us on such a detailed and complicated matter. Most of them - apart from the nut cases who have the ascendency now - were in favour of remaining. The reason they should decide for us is that they are elected to listen to all sides, take evidence and most important of all DEBATE. The man in the street, or at least 95% of them are NOT APPRAISED of the facts, and have no desire to be. But MPS are - they attend Select Committees, can ask DIRECT question, both written and verbal from Ministers, and can debate amongst themselves. That is their JOB, what they are paid to do, what they are supposed to be good at. The rest of us, unless we take unreasonable trouble to appraise ourselves of what's going on, are just not equipped with the detailed knowledge. And in any case, the referendum vote was, in reality, a protest about austerity, a "let's give them a good kicking". The tragedy is, of course, the very people who voted out are the ones most likely to suffer when/if we leave.

As for "we shall be able to trade all over the world" (Brazil, Chile, Japan, Australia etc). Think of this.....if we were starting from scratch, who would we try and get a trade agreement with? Our next door neighbours (EU) or South America. Only one answer really!! Geddit

[Cowshed]

I am still not convinced Brexit will happen. I realise it may be wishful thinking. As for the "will of the people" argument, it is our elected representatives who should decide for us on such a detailed and complicated matter. Most of them - apart from the nut cases who have the ascendency now - were in favour of remaining. The reason they should decide for us is that they are elected to listen to all sides, take evidence and most important of all DEBATE. The man in the street, or at least 95% of them are NOT APPRAISED of the facts, and have no desire to be. But MPS are - they attend Select Committees, can ask DIRECT question, both written and verbal from Ministers, and can debate amongst themselves. That is their JOB, what they are paid to do, what they are supposed to be good at. The rest of us, unless we take unreasonable trouble to appraise ourselves of what's going on, are just not equipped with the detailed knowledge. And in any case, the referendum vote was, in reality, a protest about austerity, a "let's give them a good kicking". The tragedy is, of course, the very people who voted out are the ones most likely to suffer when/if we leave.

As for "we shall be able to trade all over the world" (Brazil, Chile, Japan, Australia etc). Think of this.....if we were starting from scratch, who would we try and get a trade agreement with? Our next door neighbours (EU) or South America. Only one answer really!! Geddit

29 March 2019 get it in your diary

[SaigonSaddler]

I think pragmatism will win through, probably sooner than you think. Primarily as the economic fallout in Britain begins to become clear and the vaunted phantom saviours (European cheese manufacturers that 'need' us so, so badly and can't bear the thought of selling to 1.3 billion Chinese, German car industry and 'that' trade deal with El Dorado) never materialise: this is already happening to some extent as financial institutions are opening offices in Europe - primarily Paris and Frankfurt.
I thought the pound was going to recover and it was a blip? :? :roll:

We'll get to more less the same position as we've just left, but we'll simply go through maybe 20 years of unnecessary economic pain to get there. We may even become closer to Europe as the younger generation react against the foolishness of the Brexit bus dupes.

I'm with Surrey - why would you give a vote to the general population, a proportion of whom think Hitler was French and can't be bothered to read anything other than when Britain's got Talent is next on. :?: :wink: