Preston North End (A) League One 24th Feb, 7.45pm

[aaaae]

I think you are too harsh on Smith, Phil.

I can see though that if you mainly go to home games you would be much more unhappy than if you went to more away matches. This season I've done half and half, seen us abject at home and brilliant away - MK Dons being my highlight, which was just brilliant. Did you go to that match Phil?

I think Smith and O'Kelly have proven that they deserve more time, at the very least because I think they are lucky, in as much as their poor runs have been timed so that they haven't seen us relegated and we got a bye in the first round of the JPT! Napoleon always preferred lucky generals to good ones.

Also, to be fair to them, you have to take into account that their playing budget. When Sam Mantom, our player of the year last season, got injured we have had to replace him with a loan signing who is 20, 3 years younger than Mantom and prior to us had a footballing career that consisted of a sum total of 2 matches for Mansfield. That's our financial reality. Beyond that we have Reece Flanagan. I'm not running Cain of Flanagan down, just saying that our squad is so thin, when we lose our best player we have to replace him with absolute footballing novices. Doesn't that say anything to you?

At the same time we've been able to bring in players of the quality of Bradshaw & Forde, for which you have to credit Smith. I really don't think we are far away and hopefully the money from the JPT will give us the ability to level the playing field at least a little. Lets just hope that Brentford and Watford get promoted and we can get even more cash for Grigg and Deeney.

I think your view is glass half empty and mine is glass half full, and I must admit Wembley makes it seem a lot fuller.

[aaaae]

Definitely not a foul on Rico Henry for their first goal, but watch their goal keeper shove Hiwula on the O'Connor chance at the end. Hey ho!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVewvUp8FCo[/youtube]

[Ancient Moaner]

Anybody considered that we just lost to a better, more consistent side who were probably well up for the game after we denied them a Wembley appearance, while we missed a couple of key players?

First away defeat since October and we've got people asking for refunds.

Got to love Walsall FC. :mrgreen:

You were there then? presumably you were lucky enough to sleep through the embarrassment.
Though how could you with than interminable 'Deano's barmy army' chant that went on unbearably for at least 10 frustrating minutes.................Guys PLEASE change the record!!!!!

Missed a couple of key players? That team couldn't have scored a goal if we were still playing now.....without an opposition!! We should be able to cope better, we had Forde/Cook/Hiwula & latterly Sawyers and created precisely nothing!!

Losing 1 nil to one of the best teams in the league is an embarrasment, how did you describe the Slough and Mansfield cup defeats! :lol:

I knew we would lose to Slough! I know someone who made an awful lot of money on that one!
THE most embarrassing in recent years HAD to be the Lincoln City cup defeat!
I note the BBC stats from Preston had us as 8 shots on goal and 2 on target? what match were the watching? I remember us getting into their penalty area twice in the second half...end of.

[philthesaddler]

I think you are too harsh on Smith, Phil.

I can see though that if you mainly go to home games you would be much more unhappy than if you went to more away matches. This season I've done half and half, seen us abject at home and brilliant away - MK Dons being my highlight, which was just brilliant. Did you go to that match Phil?

I think Smith and O'Kelly have proven that they deserve more time, at the very least because I think they are lucky, in as much as their poor runs have been timed so that they haven't seen us relegated and we got a bye in the first round of the JPT! Napoleon always preferred lucky generals to good ones.

Also, to be fair to them, you have to take into account that their playing budget. When Sam Mantom, our player of the year last season, got injured we have had to replace him with a loan signing who is 20, 3 years younger than Mantom and prior to us had a footballing career that consisted of a sum total of 2 matches for Mansfield. That's our financial reality. Beyond that we have Reece Flanagan. I'm not running Cain of Flanagan down, just saying that our squad is so thin, when we lose our best player we have to replace him with absolute footballing novices. Doesn't that say anything to you?

At the same time we've been able to bring in players of the quality of Bradshaw & Forde, for which you have to credit Smith. I really don't think we are far away and hopefully the money from the JPT will give us the ability to level the playing field at least a little. Lets just hope that Brentford and Watford get promoted and we can get even more cash for Grigg and Deeney.

I think your view is glass half empty and mine is glass half full, and I must admit Wembley makes it seem a lot fuller.

Did you not read my post?

I said Smith should be given next season, but be given clear targets that he has to achieve.

I took Leigh Pomlett to task over this at the July/August focus meeting. He said we were progressing under Smith - I argued that we weren't, and the league table over the past 3 season proves me right. At the time, I asked him what his opinion would be if come the end of the season we hadn't progressed at all, or indeed gone backwards, he was pretty much stumped.

Personally, I dont want us to tread water, I dont buy the budget b*llshit for one second, the last 2 seasons have proved that breaking the top 8 is possible for a team like us. Granted - there will always be 2 or 3 teams in this division who have the budget to buy their way out of the league, but thats nothing new, and it aint going to change any time soon. Those teams will more often than not occupy the top 3 - see Wolves, Bristol City, Bournemouth 2 years ago...etc

The day out at Wembley will be great, but I remember when the LDV, or AutoWindscreens Cup was treated with disdain by WFC - we used to play trialists in these games FFS - now we celebrate reaching the final like it's an achievement? That to me is a sign of where our ambitions lie. Financially it isn't all that good either - you'd make more money reaching the 5th round of the FA Cup that you would reaching the final of the JPT.

I stand by my comments - Smith is not a good manager, he's a lucky one - he rolls the dice, plays the same numbers every week - he's managerial equivalent of what anyone who's played football will know as a "percentage ball"... you hit the ball enough times at a certain angle to a certain player and you'll win it a percentage of times...that's Smiths managerial mantra - do the same thing 100 times and you'll success 30% of the time.

The JPT run this season should boost the coffers for next season, which makes it even more important Smith is given a clear target, and if he doesn't achieve it, that the club parts company with him.

Here's a question for you Smith-lovers - this time next year, we're 15th in the table, with a very similar record. What then? Will you be happy? Should he stay indefinitely?

[aaaae]

Did you not read my post?

I said Smith should be given next season, but be given clear targets that he has to achieve.

I took Leigh Pomlett to task over this at the July/August focus meeting. He said we were progressing under Smith - I argued that we weren't, and the league table over the past 3 season proves me right. At the time, I asked him what his opinion would be if come the end of the season we hadn't progressed at all, or indeed gone backwards, he was pretty much stumped.

Personally, I dont want us to tread water, I dont buy the budget b*llshit for one second, the last 2 seasons have proved that breaking the top 8 is possible for a team like us. Granted - there will always be 2 or 3 teams in this division who have the budget to buy their way out of the league, but thats nothing new, and it aint going to change any time soon.

The day out at Wembley will be great, but I remember when the LDV, or AutoWindscreens Cup was treated with disdain by WFC - we used to play trialists in these games FFS - now we celebrate reaching the final like it's an achievement? That to me is a sign of where our ambitions lie. Financially it isn't all that good either - you'd make more money reaching the 5th round of the FA Cup that you would reaching the final of the JPT.

I stand by my comments - Smith is not a good manager, he's a lucky one - he rolls the dice, plays the same numbers every week - he's managerial equivalent of what anyone who's played football will know as a "percentage ball"... you hit the ball enough times at a certain angle to a certain player and you'll win it a percentage of times...that's Smiths managerial mantra - do the same thing 100 times and you'll success 30% of the time.

The JPT run this season should boost the coffers for next season, which makes it even more important Smith is given a clear target, and if he doesn't achieve it, that the club parts company with him.

Here's a question for you Smith-lovers - this time next year, we're 15th in the table, with a very similar record. What then? Will you be happy? Should he stay indefinitely?

If we have the same record next season as this I'd be happy for Smith to stay. If I had matches like MK Dons, Doncaster away and Preston x 2 in the JPT to watch and a Wembley cup final and league safety - yes I'd be happy for Smith to stay.

There is so much about your post that is contradictory or just straight wrong I don't know where to start. You say you don't buy the budget BS - why not? Can you not see that we have a decent first 11 and virtually nothing else? Why do you think that is?

To say the club hasn't progressed from when Smith took over is delusional. Do you remember what it was like at the end of the Mullen / Hutchings era? It was fudge woeful. We now have a young team that can beat anyone in our division, exciting players like Bradshaw, Forde, Mantom, O'Donnell, Downing, Sawyers. Yes they are inconsistent, but they are only going to get better and more consistent.

Did Ray Graydon treat the JPT with disdain? Your point about making as much money from the 5th round of the FA cup is what exactly? It's self evident that we'd make money from any cup run. Are you going to Wembley if it is such a non achievement? Will you refuse to celebrate if we win because we should be in the 5th round of the FA Cup or eighth in the league?

[Magic Man Fan]

Why is it that moan most, don't go to as many games?

Smith isn't perfect, but those who think there are better out there, who could work on his budget are either delusional, have short memories, or both.

[tinned]

To say we haven't progressed from the Mullen/Hutchings days is way off IMO. We're so much more organised than we were. I no longer fear relegation with anywhere near the degree I used to.

On the other side of the coin, Smith is noting more than bang average. He has no plan B whatsoever (I don't think he even knows the phrase), For two seasons our home form has been little more than woeful, there is no indication that anything different is being done to rectify this.

I can't see any chance of seriously pushing for the play off's any time soon. Perhaps that's enough for some (and I'm not knocking that). I just worry about years of happily muddling around in mid table, with good enough tools to progress but being held back by a mediocre manager.

[philthesaddler]

If we have the same record next season as this I'd be happy for Smith to stay. If I had matches like MK Dons, Doncaster away and Preston x 2 in the JPT to watch and a Wembley cup final and league safety - yes I'd be happy for Smith to stay.

I didn't say anything about the cup games.

Take the cup games out of the equation. May 2016, we finish 15th. Happy or not? Is that progress?

There is so much about your post that is contradictory or just straight wrong I don't know where to start. You say you don't buy the budget BS - why not?

1) No one knows the budgets, the wage breakdown or the bonus scheme we employ.
2) Did our perceived lack of budget cause us to turn it woeful performances against Crewe? Port Vale? Coventry? Rochdale?

Can you not see that we have a decent first 11 and virtually nothing else? Why do you think that is?

Mainly because he's create a squad that contains/contained players patently not good enough for league 1 level to fill out the squad. Players such as Baxendale, Benning, Manset, Holden, Grimes, Clifford - have all taken up wages this season, all of whom offer nothing apart from a man to make up the team to 11 when someone else is injured.

To say the club hasn't progressed from when Smith took over is delusional. Do you remember what it was like at the end of the Mullen / Hutchings era? It was fudge woeful.

Depends what you class as progress. The home form wasn't that different, and as I said, both those managers tenures were blighted by the in-fighting at the club. Is going from finishing in the bottom 6 to finishing in the bottom 10 really progress? Is scoring at barely a goal a game progress? Was the football more entertaining? Arguably not - we do some pretty passing now, but we're very ineffective and not very penetrative.

We now have a young team that can beat anyone in our division, exciting players like Bradshaw, Forde, Mantom, O'Donnell, Downing, Sawyers. Yes they are inconsistent, but they are only going to get better and more consistent.

So? Merson signed Danny Fox and Anthony Gerrard, they were exciting young players. Smith wont change the clubs ability to keep exciting players unless progress is made in the league.

Did Ray Graydon treat the JPT with disdain?

Yes. Walsall 2 Wigan 1, Jan 20th 2001 - Emberson (reserve), Barras, Gaunt (reserve), Scott (reserve), Bryan Small (trialist), Wrack, Gadsby (reserve), Bukran, Wright (reserve), Birch (reserve), Byfield

Playing a team with 6 reserves and one trialist in the team, I'd call that a significant lack of respect for the competition.

Your point about making as much money from the 5th round of the FA cup is what exactly?

Because the FA Cup carries more kudos. It's more of an achievement to reach the FA Cup 5th round than it is to reach the final of the JPT.

Are you going to Wembley if it is such a non achievement?

Yes. Why, does wanting progress preclude me from going to special matches?

Will you refuse to celebrate if we win because we should be in the 5th round of the FA Cup or eighth in the league?

That's flippancy, so I wont bother answering.

[aaaae]

To say we haven't progressed from the Mullen/Hutchings days is way off IMO. We're so much more organised than we were. I no longer fear relegation with anywhere near the degree I used to.

On the other side of the coin, Smith is noting more than bang average. He has no plan B whatsoever (I don't think he even knows the phrase), For two seasons our home form has been little more than woeful, there is no indication that anything different is being done to rectify this.

I can't see any chance of seriously pushing for the play off's any time soon. Perhaps that's enough for some (and I'm not knocking that). I just worry about years of happily muddling around in mid table, with good enough tools to progress but being held back by a mediocre manager.

I will agree that there have been too many piss poor performances at home, sometimes losing when we don't even appear to want to attack. But away form has compensated for that for me.

Get Mantom back, sign Hiwula on a season long loan next season, strengthen in a couple of areas, central defence and central midfield and I think we would be on the right track. If we have £500K from the JPT we can achieve this. If Watford sell Deeney even more so.

[aaaae]

If we have the same record next season as this I'd be happy for Smith to stay. If I had matches like MK Dons, Doncaster away and Preston x 2 in the JPT to watch and a Wembley cup final and league safety - yes I'd be happy for Smith to stay.

I didn't say anything about the cup games.

Take the cup games out of the equation. May 2016, we finish 15th. Happy or not? Is that progress?

Why take the Cup games out of the equation. It's why I'm a Walsall fan! If you take Bristol Rovers, Leicester & Arsenal 1978 or Liverpool, Rotherham & Coventry 1984 or Wolves 1985 or West Brom 1987 out of the equation I doubt I'd even be a Walsall fan. When comparing the relative merits of Walsall managers, Cup runs are right at the top of my list.

It's like the sketch from the Life of Brian, "apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what has Dean Smith ever done for us?"

There is so much about your post that is contradictory or just straight wrong I don't know where to start. You say you don't buy the budget BS - why not?

1) No one knows the budgets, the wage breakdown or the bonus scheme we employ.
2) Did our perceived lack of budget cause us to turn it woeful performances against Crewe? Port Vale? Coventry? Rochdale?

1) Have you seen our attendances and how much our owner takes out of the club and that we never post a loss? Do the sums?
2) Erm yes. Why do you think Wolves & Brentford were more consistently good last season? Greater moral fibre?

Can you not see that we have a decent first 11 and virtually nothing else? Why do you think that is?

Mainly because he's create a squad that contains/contained players patently not good enough for league 1 level to fill out the squad. Players such as Baxendale, Benning, Manset, Holden, Grimes, Clifford - have all taken up wages this season, all of whom offer nothing apart from a man to make up the team to 11 when someone else is injured.

Why do you think he has signed players that you think aren't good enough for League 1? Why didn't we sign Nouha Dicko instead of Ashley Grimes. BTW Manset & Holden have gone.

To say the club hasn't progressed from when Smith took over is delusional. Do you remember what it was like at the end of the Mullen / Hutchings era? It was fudge woeful.

Depends what you class as progress. The home form wasn't that different, and as I said, both those managers tenures were blighted by the in-fighting at the club. Is going from finishing in the bottom 6 to finishing in the bottom 10 really progress? Is scoring at barely a goal a game progress? Was the football more entertaining? Arguably not - we do some pretty passing now, but we're very ineffective and not very penetrative.

You have got a very short memory. We were penetrative at MK Dons & Doncaster and various other games this season. Is finishing in the top 15 and playing a Wembley final progress? fudge hell yes!!!

We now have a young team that can beat anyone in our division, exciting players like Bradshaw, Forde, Mantom, O'Donnell, Downing, Sawyers. Yes they are inconsistent, but they are only going to get better and more consistent.

So? Merson signed Danny Fox and Anthony Gerrard, they were exciting young players. Smith wont change the clubs ability to keep exciting players unless progress is made in the league.

Eh? Merson? Really? With the amount of money he pissed up the wall? Smith is getting these players on a shoestring

Did Ray Graydon treat the JPT with disdain?

Yes. Walsall 2 Wigan 1, Jan 20th 2001 - Emberson (reserve), Barras, Gaunt (reserve), Scott (reserve), Bryan Small (trialist), Wrack, Gadsby (reserve), Bukran, Wright (reserve), Birch (reserve), Byfield

Playing a team with 6 reserves and one trialist in the team, I'd call that a significant lack of respect for the competition..

A game we won! He got to the regional final against Millwall, we reached the regional final the year before too. You are wrong, we have not always treated this competition with disdain.

Your point about making as much money from the 5th round of the FA cup is what exactly?

Because the FA Cup carries more kudos. It's more of an achievement to reach the FA Cup 5th round than it is to reach the final of the JPT.

You were talking about money, not achievement. It is significantly harder to get to the 5th round because you have to play teams from the two divisions above, but your point was about money. You said "you'd make more money reaching the 5th round of the FA Cup". So what?

Are you going to Wembley if it is such a non achievement?

Yes. Why, does wanting progress preclude me from going to special matches?

No of course not, but why are you describing it as "special" when 5 minutes ago you said "we used to play trialists in these games FFS - now we celebrate reaching the final like it's an achievement?" It is special and an achievement by Smith that you then want to discount as if it's nothing, when I think it is firmly in the plus column.

Will you refuse to celebrate if we win because we should be in the 5th round of the FA Cup or eighth in the league?

That's flippancy, so I wont bother answering.

Fair enough. I need a coffee!

Phil I respect your passion for the success of the club, I just don't think you are getting things into perspective. Smith is making progress, it may be inch by painful bloody inch, but it is progress. Again it may be because I've seen those great away performances that my perspective is different.

[Guest]

More highlights.

http://m.lep.co.uk/sport/preston-north-end-news/watch-highlights-from-pne-s-1-0-win-against-walsall-1-7127035

[Walsallone]

I am not a Smith hater or lover. I am a realist who has supported Walsall for over 50yrs. We are ,at the moment ,in our average league position since we entered the League. Is that good or bad? I have seen much worse teams than this one and I have seen much better teams than this one but I am optimistic because our younger players will be better next year,our key players(most of them) are contracted and with one or two additions we will be a force to be reckoned with IF Dean signs the right players in the Summer. His transfer record is somewhat patchy but probably no worse than many managers.
Having said all that I agree to some degree with Phil-next year will be the "crunch" season. We have made progress but if we are not challenging for promotion next year questions will have to be asked of the Manager.In particular we must start winning regulary at home.

[chestersaddler]

Phil - how do you know that Smith doesn't have KPI's. I would say that he most certainly will. I am also pretty certain that they will be less aspirational than those that you would like him to have.

Avoid relegation (or potential to be relegated)
Work within agreed budget - do not moan or ask for more.
Develop / find nuggets to sell on.

The above to be an enabler for Mr Bonser to continue his little ruse.

[Whitters]

Personally, I dont want us to tread water, I dont buy the budget b*llshit for one second,

Another wishy-washy dreamer with no life experience and no grasp on reality.

[Whitters]

Phil - how do you know that Smith doesn't have KPI's. I would say that he most certainly will. I am also pretty certain that they will be less aspirational than those that you would like him to have.

Avoid relegation (or potential to be relegated)
Work within agreed budget - do not moan or ask for more.
Develop / find nuggets to sell on.

The above to be an enabler for Mr Bonser to continue his little ruse.

I'd say you're correct in your assessment chester.
There may be another aim he has to achieve - "avoid promotion as it creates a possibly expensive season or two of financial uncertainty".

[SoccerHQ]

Must admit in October I came as close as ever to wanting Smith out....after the low point of defeats to Crewe and Crawley within three days.

Since then typically the form has picked up and it must be top 10 at least.

I can't quite get my head round people wanting him gone though. Yes the team are inconsistant but christ look at league one, there's only four decent teams in it.

Get 24 fans in one room before the season in which they all have to say their expectations and demands of the team and Phil would get laughed out of the room when it was his turn and he said top 6.

To me Walsall are a top half, I'd say based on last few months top 10 standard team so a target for Smith would be to finish in the top 10 this season. I couldn't quite believe the team didn't finish in the top half last season after spending 99% of the season there.

[<Nat>]

I'll be barracked for saying this but Smith should've been sacked earlier in the season. A lot of managers have been sacked this season for losing less games in a row.

He won't take us in to the play offs in a million years. But a lot of people are happy to finish 10th every year, and have the odd cup run

I won't 'barrack' you, but I'll definitely question your logic, I know its been 2 years now since we've had a brush in with serious relegation position and you feel safe enough to make such a lambasting comment but surely you can see the entire squad, youth, structure and club has benefited from his 4 years in charge now with the stability its brought other clubs would dream for.

If not, I recommend an opticians.

[paddy]

I'll be barracked for saying this but Smith should've been sacked earlier in the season. A lot of managers have been sacked this season for losing less games in a row.

He won't take us in to the play offs in a million years. But a lot of people are happy to finish 10th every year, and have the odd cup run

I won't 'barrack' you, but I'll definitely question your logic, I know its been 2 years now since we've had a brush in with serious relegation position and you feel safe enough to make such a lambasting comment but surely you can see the entire squad, youth, structure and club has benefited from his 4 years in charge now with the stability its brought other clubs would dream for.

If not, I recommend an opticians.

But we're not progressing on the pitch. We're no closer to challenging for promotion. It's great having such good off the field facilities, and structure within the club, but it's not doing much good on the pitch.

The budget reason for not doing well is bull. He wasted money again on league 2 players like Grimes & Manset. He got lucky with Bradshaw, and I don't believe he had anything to do with finding Hiwula.

Next season will be the same minus the Wembley appearance, then it'll be deemed a failure

[bangsection]

Good players Smith has signed = lucky

Bad players Smith has signed = another nail in his managerial coffin

You're right about Hiwula though. Look at the shadow that he casts on the photo of him signing: it's 20 degrees out from the position of the sun at that time on that day. I think you'll find the entire thing was staged in a secure facility in the Nevada desert. All the hallmarks of another signing by the shadowy forces that sign players for Walsall. Apart from the cack ones - they're signed by Smith, obvs!

Wibble.

[Tom_1992]

I'll be barracked for saying this but Smith should've been sacked earlier in the season. A lot of managers have been sacked this season for losing less games in a row.

He won't take us in to the play offs in a million years. But a lot of people are happy to finish 10th every year, and have the odd cup run

I won't 'barrack' you, but I'll definitely question your logic, I know its been 2 years now since we've had a brush in with serious relegation position and you feel safe enough to make such a lambasting comment but surely you can see the entire squad, youth, structure and club has benefited from his 4 years in charge now with the stability its brought other clubs would dream for.

If not, I recommend an opticians.

But we're not progressing on the pitch. We're no closer to challenging for promotion. It's great having such good off the field facilities, and structure within the club, but it's not doing much good on the pitch.

The budget reason for not doing well is bull. He wasted money again on league 2 players like Grimes & Manset. He got lucky with Bradshaw, and I don't believe he had anything to do with finding Hiwula.

Next season will be the same minus the Wembley appearance, then it'll be deemed a failure

Unbelievable, you completely undermine your own argument by lambasting his poor signings and then brushing off Bradshaw as 'lucky'. Also with regards to Hiwula there was a behind closed doors friendly with Man City a few days before he signed, so I'm pretty sure he might have had something to do with his signing... :roll:

Why do you have such a blatant agenda against Smith, Paddy? I accept he's not perfect and he makes mistakes, but if you look at our bench for the Port Vale game;
13 MacGillivray
16 Preston
17 Flanagan
22 Kinsella
24 Grimes
25 Henry
29 Murphy

I would say that he's doing a pretty good job with the squad he has at his disposal, seriously what else could you realistically expect from this squad?

[aaaae]

Wow, with the exception of Ashley Grimes who is 28, the average age of that bench is 19.18!

[saddla]

Wow, with the exception of Ashley Grimes who is 28, the average age of that bench is 19.18!

If you have the time to sit down and work that out you must be as bored as I am. :lol:

[aaaae]

Wow, with the exception of Ashley Grimes who is 28, the average age of that bench is 19.18!

If you have the time to sit down and work that out you must be as bored as I am. :lol:

Multitasking! :lol:

[tinned]

I don't think Smith's success rate for buying players is too bad considering the finances (or lack of them) at his disposal. Making out that every good signing is luck and every bad one is evidence of Smith's weakness's is silly and only weakens any argument against Smith.

I think he can build a decent enough squad, it's just using those players, with formations/tactics to get the best results, where Smith is obviously lacking ability.

[paddy]

If fans are happy with 10-16th every season then so be it. I want my club to aim for higher & actually achieve getting to the play offs. I just don't think Smith is the man to take the club to the next step

[aaaae]

If fans are happy with 10-16th every season then so be it. I want my club to aim for higher & actually achieve getting to the play offs. I just don't think Smith is the man to take the club to the next step

No. 10-16th and a Wembley cup final! Then I'm happy. This is a good season as far as I'm concerned.

Next season we will have more money to spend (earned by the current manager) let's see what he does with it.

Look where we are on the attendance table last year. 18th. 19th if Coventry weren't playing silly buggers. And we have an owner who takes money out of the club. Why is finishing below 6th a failure?

1 Wolverhampton Wanderers Wolverhampton Wanderers 480.211 23 20.879
2 Sheffield United Sheffield United 402.656 23 17.507
3 Bradford City Bradford City 324.780 23 14.121
4 Bristol City Bristol City 274.357 23 11.929
5 Preston North End Preston North End 235.393 23 10.234
6 Milton Keynes Dons Milton Keynes Dons 208.085 23 9.047
7 Rotherham United Rotherham United 194.353 23 8.450
8 Swindon Town Swindon Town 186.988 23 8.130
9 Brentford FC Brentford FC 177.460 23 7.716
10 Peterborough United Peterborough United 145.819 23 6.340
11 Port Vale FC Port Vale FC 143.734 23 6.249
12 Gillingham FC Gillingham FC 143.045 23 6.219
13 Shrewsbury Town Shrewsbury Town 128.355 23 5.581
14 Notts County Notts County 126.695 23 5.508
15 Leyton Orient Leyton Orient 125.753 23 5.468
16 Tranmere Rovers Tranmere Rovers 117.599 23 5.113
17 Crewe Alexandra Crewe Alexandra 113.445 23 4.932
18 Walsall FC Walsall FC 110.560 23 4.807
19 Oldham Athletic Oldham Athletic 101.554 23 4.415
20 Carlisle United Carlisle United 97.598 23 4.243
21 Colchester United Colchester United 85.908 23 3.735
22 Crawley Town Crawley Town 80.182 23 3.486
23 Stevenage FC Stevenage FC 68.166 23 2.964
24 Coventry City Coventry City 54.015 23 2.348

[paddy]

Yet again the only reason you're giving is a lack of budget/finances. Teams with the same budgets as ours have made the play offs & been promoted before.

Why not us?? (Please don't use the budget again as why we can't)

[aaaae]

Yet again the only reason you're giving is a lack of budget/finances. Teams with the same budgets as ours have made the play offs & been promoted before.

Why not us?? (Please don't use the budget again as why we can't)

I'm not saying we can't reach the play offs, I'm saying that not reaching them is not a sackable offence. If you look at the teams promoted 90%+ spend far more money than us.

[chestersaddler]

Yet again the only reason you're giving is a lack of budget/finances. Teams with the same budgets as ours have made the play offs & been promoted before.

Why not us?? (Please don't use the budget again as why we can't)

We have though, several times. We spent a few years in the next league up a few years ago, if you remember?

[chestersaddler]

If fans are happy with 10-16th every season then so be it. I want my club to aim for higher & actually achieve getting to the play offs. I just don't think Smith is the man to take the club to the next step

We all want our club to "aim" higher, but some of us can see the reality of trying to compete under the constraints the owner has put on us. Blame the owner, not the manager for the mismatch in ambition between you and the club.