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Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Reports and reaction from the 2013-2014 season as Walsall finished 13th in League 1
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Magic Man Fan
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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:02 am

Meh. Most average team in the world.

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sallian
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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:47 am

canadiansaddler wrote:And remember you only have to score one goal to win a game UTS


Not quite, rather, you only have to score ONE MORE GOAL THAN THE OPPOSITION to win a game.....but that could mean having to score four goals if your opponents scored three.

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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:02 am

i wanted to make a point about the game but my caps lock is broken so i can't emphasise bits. :(

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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:30 am

canadiansaddler wrote:Can it just be said that

Defence wins Championships - offense wins games


You've spent too long on the wrong side of the Atlantic mate. I think you mean 'attack'. :wink:

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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:37 am

Thought we gave them too much respect last night with over-cautious tactics. The three man midfield has worked well away from home against teams like Swindon and Wolves who were always going to come at us but Clough was quoted before the game as saying that he sets up to get a 0-0 and hopes to nick a goal and United were quite happy to give us the ball and sit back. When that happens we struggle to impose ourselves with only one up front.

As others have said, the Blades were there for the taking and it was crying out for Sawyers operating behind Westcarr to give us more attacking threat.

Still, that shouldn't take away from another resolute defensive display. Butler's clearance off the line was fantastic and the entire back four were as solid as we've come to expect. The first (not given) penalty was hilarious. It was the most blatant pen you'll ever see in your life and the sight of the tubby ref making the "got the ball" sign from 20 yards away as Nigel Clough virtually exploded on the touchline was delicious. You knew he'd hedge his bets if he got the opportunity though, and so it proved - he couldn't wait to award a very harsh "ball to hand" penalty against J Chambers.

The one bit of quality in the entire game came from Bax - kippered his man with the old ball through the legs trick and arrowed a fantastic ball straight on to Westcarr's noggin. Lovely.

Sawyers back in for Featherstone, Hemmings for Lalkovic and three points on Saturday please...

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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:42 am

sallian wrote:
There is no myth...it is factual. Walsall are not in the play off positions because they do not score enough goals. They don't win games they should. Walsall's attack is quite weak. Not enough chances are created or converted.

This is why I included supporters as a target of my sarcasm. Because from reading the board I see that Dean Smith is not only one who doesn't understand.

You can't win a game 0-0 (nil - nil).

You can't base a game on NOT CONCEEDING GOALS....yes you try to have the best defence possible and Walsall have a good defence and defend well as a team, thanks to Dean Smith.

But no matter how good the defence is, you are likely to let goals in in games...OFTEN MORE THAN ONE.

Because goals can be scored in many ways (speed, skill, bullet unstoppable shots, unlucky slips and mistakes, unfair penalties and free kicks etc) So you can't base your strategy on 'one goal is enough' as you will often fail in that even if you play and defend well! And 90mins is a long time for a good team to score one or two goals.

YOU ALSO should not put into your team....that 'ITS IMPORTANT To SCORE THE FIRST GOAL!' This will then create a mentality that they will struggle to win if they go a goal down!

Rather the mentality should be, let us try and score many goals and defend well....and if we even go 3 goals down WE MUST STILL TRY AND WIN

Think about this....If the strikers were offered a bonus of £10,000 per goal do you think their mentality, drive and effort would be the same?

If the team were told that they will get doubled salaries if they start scoring double the amount of goals...do you think their goalscoring ambition would remain the same?

Now guess what Mr Low Goal Ambition and Mr Agree with Dean Smith's erroneous first goal mentality....

The team WILL get more financial reward if they score more goals as too will the strikers....as all of their success and value will increase.

Low ambition and drive = LOW YIELD, LOW RESULTS

Create more chances = More goals

Intend and focus on creating more chances = more chances created

How many ways are there to create chances? MANY, MANY WAYS

How many ways are their to improve a strikers goalscoring ability? MANY WAYS...both mental and technique-wise.


I haven't got much time today but this has irked me somewhat.

Brian Clough, one of the best football managers, motivators that has ever walked the Earth (and seas as he'd have you believe) always based his teams on a sound defence. He is often quoted that it is imperative to have a strong spine down the centre and with that a strong defence.

Stating the 'bleeding obvious':

1. if you keep a clean sheet then you are not going to lose.
2. If you score the first goal the opposition have to score a) 1 to restore the status quo; b) 2 to win (assuming you don't score another). This is why it gives the side scoring first the psychological advantage.
3. Goals are indeed scored in many ways. This works both ways that's why the totals for the goals scored column of any division equals the goals against.
4. I can see that you haven't a clue about motivation when it comes to teams. If the incentive is more biased towards an individual such as a striker getting £10k for each goal then what do you think he (or anyone else for that matter) will do when in sight of goal? That's right he'll shoot. This however, is not always the best option as there may be a team mate in a better position in which case (if he misses) he will have squandered the opportunity not only for himself but also the team. I would imagine that would make him really popular within the club with no one giving him the ball etc. etc. That kind of bonus is too short term and doesn't do anyone any good in the long term.

Many years ago when I was involved in Junior Football it was quite common, especially at U7/8s for everyone to get the ball and try and score eventually though the team that passed the ball and who were technically more aware won.

Dean Smith understands the team philosophy; that holistically they are better off playing for each other. The money will come when they prove themselves and move on to bigger and better things.

As for strikers, show me a club who isn't looking for a proven 20+ goal a season hitman.

The thing is they cost loads ... of ... money! Money we haven't got.

I have to go now, see what you've done? I'm bloody late.

I'll finish this when I get back.

P.S. Welsh, I don't think this fella is Dumbo as he spelt centre, center. DTH would never do that, would he?

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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:52 am

arsehole of a journey meant i missed most of the 1st half, what i saw looked hopeless. i love bax, but he was terrible. then, in the 2nd, he turned his full-back inside out before firing in the most perfect cross.

featherstone was great 2nd half, bringing the ball forward and playing some great incisive passes. anyone claiming otherwise is chatting cack out they arse.

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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:58 am

priestley_saddler wrote:
sallian wrote:Lessons from tonights results apart from again not being in the play off positions due to inability to score more than one goal:-

Shrewsbury Town 1 Oldham Athletic 2

LESSON: Oldham were losing 0-1 but came back and won because they scored more than one goal. Lesson...you need to score more than one goal in some games to win.

Carlisle Utd 2 Crewe ALexandra 1
LESSON: Carlisle went up 2-0 and Crewe scored 1 late goal. Carlisle Won because they scored more than one goal. Crewe lost because they were only able to score one goal. Lesson....you need to score more than one goal in some games to win.

Lesson we get from both the above games. It is NOT ABOUT scoring "...The first goal..." as we have a team who won while leading and a team who won while trailing. i.e. the key issue is SCORING MORE GOALS THAN THE OPPOSITION. Not the FIRST GOAL but MORE GOALS.

Colchester Utd 3 MK Dons 1. Lesson Colchester were leading and remained the winners because.....? THAT'S RIGHT...you got it....because they scored....? MORE THAN ONE GOAL.....are we learning now? Or do we still think the main thing is to score the first goal or just pass the ball about without the immediate intention of creation many goalscoring chances?

Brentford 3 Peterboro Utd 2 Brentford were winning 2 - 1 (because they scored more than one goal) but Brentford won....why? Because they scored MORE THAN TWO GOALS...and MORE THAN THE OPPOSITION. Note the there was an own goal in the game.....another reason to score many, as accidental and 'unlucky' goals can be scored against you. Note, Brentford did not win because they scored the first goal...they won because they scored MORE GOALS.

This enough for today's lesson on the logic of scoring goals to win football matches.

You massively get on my fools, but I'm going to bite anyway.

Our record this season when scoring the first goal (all competitions):
W 9, D 1, L 0

Our record this season when not scoring the first goal (all competitions):
W 0, D 6, L 6

Seems pretty conclusive evidence that the first goal is quite important in our games :roll: When we do, teams are unable to SCORE MORE THAN ONE GOAL, or sometimes NO GOAL AT ALL in order to be able to take points off us. Notts County are the only team to have conceded first against us and not come out of the game with sweet FA. In contrast, Rotherham, Leyton Orient, Colchester and Sheffield United (and Wolves in the JPT if you discount the shootout as I've done in the stats above) all scored first against us and failed to win, because they COULDN'T STOP US FROM SCORING.


Breaking those games up by a different criteria

Our record this season when scoring a goal at any time during the game:
W 9, D 6, L 1 (the loss was against Stoke in the Cup)

Our record this season when not conceding a goal:
W 5, D 1, L 0

Considering this mythical problem we have with scoring goals, tonight is the first match where we've kept a clean sheet and failed to win, and we haven't yet lost a league game we've scored in. Would suggest to me that keeping them out at the other end is equally important, as if you're not conceding then you're not going to lose and SOMETIMES YOU DO ONLY NEED ONE GOAL TO WIN.

It also suggests that when Deano points out the first goal is important it's actually him who knows what he's talking about, and not you.


Hear Hear, I don't know who this Sallian bloke is, but he pisses me off. Up The Saddlers.

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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:55 am

Good grief, Sallian is going on so much that I've forgotten who actually made the good point.
This blithering on about strikers is Franksy-talk.

The issue tonight, like against MK, is that we are too cautious and keep it tight for too long in a game.
This goes a long way to explaining our superb defence, but also why we score relatively few goals.
Ultimately, we believe the hype of some teams and pay them too much respect.

I think this succession of away games is taking its toll on the midfield.
From the commentary they sounded tired and I think against the weaker opposition in the division we might benefit from mixing it up a little.
I'm wondering if McQuilkin can't get a go soon, his performance in the reserves the other day was outstanding by all accounts.

Also, I fail too see the logic of what Hewitt is expected to do for 5 min a week.
That is also a sign of keeping things too tight for too long.

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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:33 pm

So that err Westcarr chap, scored again didnt he?

fudge rubbish.

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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:53 pm

Pay no attention to Sallian, troll of the highest order.

Go away...

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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:57 pm

I feel Lalkovic is a bag of cack when we play the 4141, he has no support in the middle other than Westy, and is sort of forced to drive inside and so things on his own. When we play 4411 however, he has that extra man in behind Westy to play to, so his runs get wider and instead of coming inside to shoot, he more often than not drives to the byline and creates a decent chance or cross that way. Same thing with Baxo, on his own in a 4141, he is isolated when going forwards, but in a 4411 he has the extra man to play off of.

If we are going to insist on playing 4141, then play Hemmings who can take players on and drive to the edge of the box, instead of Lalkovic who tries to cut inside and score a 30 yard screamer. In fact Hemmings when he came on created our second best opportunity with a shot on target seconds after he came on, and the exact same happened against Crawley too.

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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:08 pm

sallian wrote:There is no myth...it is factual. Walsall are not in the play off positions because they do not score enough goals

Sorry, but that's bollocks.

Of the matches we've won this season, we've beat Tranmere 3-1, Crewe 3-0, Swindon 3-1, Peterborough 2-0 (and Shrewsbury 3-0 in the cup). Because we've been won by MORE THAN ONE GOAL in those four league games, scoring more goals than we actually needed too, we could potentially have scored 5 goals less than we have, and still been in the exact same position!!!

Also if scoring goals alone is what gets you into the playoffs, why are Port Vale, MK Dons, Oldham, Gillingham, Tranmere and Bristol City, all of whom have scored more goals than us, all below us in the league? Bristol City have actually scored six goals more than us, and are 22nd.

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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:12 pm

Highlights, ay they?

The goal looks even sexier the morning after...

http://youtu.be/qKbk3QoZtiw

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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:47 pm

sallian wrote:Another thing about Barcelona/Spain that some people want Walsall imitating...

Spain were quite fortunate a couple of times....The attacking, dynamic Germany were and are a better team than them. Germany should have won two of the tournaments that Spain won.

Germany made the mistake of changing their strategy and style for some of the games they failed in, such as against Spain and Italy.

And Germany even too had the wrong mentality on the occasion of beating England 4-1.... Germany could have won that game something like 7 or 8-1. But they decided to take their foot off the gas for the last 20 minutes of the game.


But they didn't did they?, and to be honest that's all that matters.
I think Mr Sallian fancies him/herself as some sort of psychologist, but not quite good enough to actually be one.

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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:51 pm

Have to say that with the exception of the most wonderfully centred cross and perfect header from Westcarr, last night was one of the most frustrating games I have watched. We dominated the premiership wannabies to the extent that we made them look less than distinctly relegation fodder! Butler was immense, never have I seen anyone so dominant in defence since that brute Jones at Donny. His goaline clearance in the first half was magnificent.
However, we huffed and we puffed, slide rule passes that split the Blades almost tediously, but regrettably, once again, sideways and backwards only....when are we ever going to score goals when we never consider forward passes or attacking as an idea? only during the last 5 minutes did we look like attacking might be a good thing. During the first half I counted the ball going back to O'Donnell from a starting position in THIER half on no less than seven occasions!
I love seeing OUR team being such a dominant force, years since witnessing such joy, but we are distinctly lightweight in attacking options, once we snuffed out the blades meagre attempts at attacking play, the ball seemed to fade into midfield obscurity until our options crumpled to nowt.
So my 1-1 scoreline forecast was correct (which won me £28 quid!). Again great to see a squad so full of confidence, strength and willingness to work for each other, but regrettably we aint scoring enough...... sorry 'priestly' but 'sallian' has a point (the guy HAS to be a teacher, only a teacher would waffle SO much to make a simple point).
Without a striker we can expect nothing more than mid table mediocrity (which would be a shame), find a goalscorer/bustling old fashioned 'centre forward' to create more goalmouth chances, then we may have a chance at the play off's!
Incidentally, the blatant penalty we 'gave away' was, as a ref myself, an outrageous mistake, he had very little option under the circumstances to give 'em a silly decision later on for their goal!
And bloomin eck, do the Sheffield Councillors get orgasmic relief to put up a set of traffic lights? Took me 40 minutes to get from the ground to the M1!
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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:37 pm

latviancheese wrote:So that err Westcarr chap, scored again didnt he?

fudge rubbish.


When Westcarr was on the floor injured in the second half AFTER he'd scored, someone behind me said loudly "I hope your leg is broken Westcarr"

What chance have we got with morons like this following us?

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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:39 pm

As for Sallian, why is everyone biting? I'm amazed how difficult some find it to spot a troll, and then don't realise that replying is exactly what they want.

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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:01 pm

Magic Man Fan wrote:As for Sallian, why is everyone biting? I'm amazed how difficult some find it to spot a troll, and then don't realise that replying is exactly what they want.


Ar, classic one-joke troll. We're getting a few of those recently.

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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:03 pm

bangsection wrote:
Magic Man Fan wrote:As for Sallian, why is everyone biting? I'm amazed how difficult some find it to spot a troll, and then don't realise that replying is exactly what they want.


Ar, classic one-joke troll. We're getting a few of those recently.


One joke, probably from one 'person' :roll: But as long as people reply, they will remain.

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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:10 pm

Not one of our best performances but it was always going to be a tough place to go. I'm fairly happy with a point but we really need to make our home game against Vale count on Saturday. 3 points on Saturday would be massive for us and would show a nice return of 5 points out of 3 games and maybe even a play off place if results go our way.

As for the game I'm surprised The ref didn't award a penalty for Lalcovic's stupid challenge, however, I feel the penalty for handball was a little harsh and I didn't actually think there was intent to bring his hand towards the ball deliberately. The ref knew he made a mistake and was always going to look to make a mens, but again 2 wrongs don't make a right.

Decent support from the saddlers last night I thought, pretty vocal and consistent, home fans were very quiet all game! Hope to see Sawyers come in the weekend!

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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:04 pm

Magic Man Fan wrote:
bangsection wrote:
Magic Man Fan wrote:As for Sallian, why is everyone biting? I'm amazed how difficult some find it to spot a troll, and then don't realise that replying is exactly what they want.


Ar, classic one-joke troll. We're getting a few of those recently.


One joke, probably from one 'person' :roll: But as long as people reply, they will remain.

Exactly. My foes list is filling up nicely with all these unremarkable trolls, along with anyone I suspect of being a foreigner, woman or a gypsy.

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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:33 pm

Registered Saddler wrote:
Magic Man Fan wrote:
bangsection wrote:
Magic Man Fan wrote:As for Sallian, why is everyone biting? I'm amazed how difficult some find it to spot a troll, and then don't realise that replying is exactly what they want.


Ar, classic one-joke troll. We're getting a few of those recently.


One joke, probably from one 'person' :roll: But as long as people reply, they will remain.

Exactly. My foes list is filling up nicely with all these unremarkable trolls, along with anyone I suspect of being a foreigner, woman or a gypsy.


To be fair though he does have a good underlying 'hook'. I also believe just a marginal improvement in our finishing would guarantee a top 6 finish and it is very frustrating how many points have been dropped because of this.

The way Salian puts it across though you'd think we were not scoring because its something Dean Smith has overlooked/forgotten about.

I'm also perfectly happy with the season so far, when you think of the dross for the majority of the last 5 years or so, so I am not especially hankering for a top 6 finish (wouldnt turn it down though).

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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:46 pm

Leatherman wrote:P.S. Welsh, I don't think this fella is Dumbo as he spelt centre, center. DTH would never do that, would he?


Is that the best you can do? A word which has two alternate spellings...okay if I wrote that I was Americanized (Americanised), I usually spell it as centre....I expect the low intellectual manifestations on the board made me dumb down my language and steer clear of Latin etymological derivations. Obiectum Utilium. Google it plebeius :)

I feel so humiliated at centre/center that I am now rethinking all the logic and rationality I posted....I think maybe Walsall might be served by having less attacking mentality and less goals scored....it might damage the passes completed/incompleted ratio.

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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:49 pm

funk_hits_the_fan wrote:Pay no attention to Sallian, troll of the highest order.

Go away...


Which perhaps makes you a sheep, goat, billygoat or rockerbilly who is struggling to cross a bridge.

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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:53 pm

Wragbyred wrote:
sallian wrote:Another thing about Barcelona/Spain that some people want Walsall imitating...

Spain were quite fortunate a couple of times....The attacking, dynamic Germany were and are a better team than them. Germany should have won two of the tournaments that Spain won.

Germany made the mistake of changing their strategy and style for some of the games they failed in, such as against Spain and Italy.

And Germany even too had the wrong mentality on the occasion of beating England 4-1.... Germany could have won that game something like 7 or 8-1. But they decided to take their foot off the gas for the last 20 minutes of the game.


But they didn't did they?, and to be honest that's all that matters.
I think Mr Sallian fancies him/herself as some sort of psychologist, but not quite good enough to actually be one.


Well according to Dean Smith....concentrating on performances is more important and the results will follow...I kind of agree with him....with the added ingredients of maximization mentality and attacking creativity....but this seems very unpopular on this board...I hope this isn't a a cross section of support and just few confused people in a forum.

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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:59 pm

Magic Man Fan wrote:As for Sallian, why is everyone biting? I'm amazed how difficult some find it to spot a troll, and then don't realise that replying is exactly what they want.


So a troll is someone who has raised the following points in a supporters forum:-

i) Adjust attacking formation
ii) Take less unnecessary passes
iii) deliver the ball quicker
iv) have greater ambition than one goal
v) make the strikers increase their expectations and standards
vi) implement repetitive strike drills for the forwards
vii) Make the team focussed on chance creation

and a whole load of other common sense and proven methods to increase success.....but yes, what a troll. Up the sheep and goats....lets all have conformity and stagnation. I'm pleased that none of you train the players....Walsall would have been non-league years ago under your misguidance.

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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:08 pm

With his vast understanding of the modern game and nuances involved, together with encyclopedic recovery of all information in support of his opinion, I propose that sallian plays the character of Anti-Statto in the next incarnation of Fantsy Football League on TV.

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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:09 pm

Andy_Petterson wrote:The way Salian puts it across though you'd think we were not scoring because its something Dean Smith has overlooked/forgotten about.


If you watch what happens to Walsall in the last quarter of the pitch so often....along with the goal tally.....then combine that with Dean Smith's assessment of the attack, along with his vision of goalscoring......something very clear can be derived.

However, it seems many do not want to admit this, so they argue with ridiculous...."No its good just to concentrate on defence and scoring one goal only etc" and "No, we are like barcelona you don't understand low scoring football formations"

I think this state of denial is perhaps because of Dean Smiths achievements with the team and that he is very likeable.

I like him and he is good and has made much progress. But the issue that I am carving on this board....is one of his weaknesses.

There are all sorts of managers with different methods, strategies and mentalities and it manifests in different results and styles on the pitch. The output for Dean and Walsall will improve if he makes the adjustments alluded to or EXPLICITLY SHOUTED.

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Re: Sheffield United (A) League One Tuesday 26th Nov 7.45pm

Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:17 pm

Wragbyred wrote:I think Mr Sallian fancies him/herself as some sort of psychologist, but not quite good enough to actually be one.


We are all psychologists and mental patients even if we don't recognize it.

I did actually do psychology at A level...but I abandoned it because it was frustrating having to listen to a whole load of conjectural theories, all of which were inferior to my own.

I am thinking of offering my sports psychology services to the team for free and also set up a midweek mental clinic for the disturbed posters in this forum, for a very small price....they just have to talk sense in here occasionally and call me sir.

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