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Smoking ban at Bescot

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What do you think?

Poll ended at Sat Dec 24, 2005 12:13 am

Yes
66
80%
No
17
20%
 
Total votes : 83
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Neuromantic
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:56 pm

HKSaddler wrote:I guessed you weren't deliberately insulting me, but you have to be careful bandying around words like simple minded.

You would need to define public areas before I would accept that your proposed ban is acceptable.


Public Area defined as: Heavily populated Area of Humans

e.g Town Centres, Bars, Restaurants etc

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HKSaddler
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:00 pm

OK, I think I see a small problem. I work in a large city which is heavily populated. My office is smoke free so I go down in the lift to the street to smoke. Your definition bans me from doing that I think, even though I'm in the open air and the effects of second hand smoking in that environment is not known. Most of the second hand smoking research has been done in enclosed environments such as pubs and restaurants. You have to give me somewhere to go to smoke, and surely outside of an office or pub would be acceptable.

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Neuromantic
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:07 pm

HKSaddler wrote:OK, I think I see a small problem. I work in a large city which is heavily populated. My office is smoke free so I go down in the lift to the street to smoke. Your definition bans me from doing that I think, even though I'm in the open air and the effects of second hand smoking in that environment is not known. Most of the second hand smoking research has been done in enclosed environments such as pubs and restaurants. You have to give me somewhere to go to smoke, and surely outside of an office or pub would be acceptable.


Go to a 'smoking shelter' then :wink:

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HKSaddler
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:24 pm

Can I build one in my office? I'll pay for breathing apparatus for the cleaner.

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Neuromantic
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:26 pm

HKSaddler wrote:Can I build one in my office? I'll pay for breathing apparatus for the cleaner.


No, not allowed. Rule is one shelter per 1000 people in a densely populted area

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HKSaddler
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:29 pm

But my building is 44 floors with up to 8 businesses per floor. Probably more than 1000 people in my building, let alone the surrounding area. If no other company in the building wants one, can I have it?

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Whitti Steve
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:22 pm

duvelken wrote:
aldridge steve wrote:
DAVEDEAN wrote:there are loads of no smoking areas at Bescot so you have a choice
i do smoke



Where? F2Go is only "No-smoking" inside. Not sure if Family stand is ? But the F2Go is all "smoking"


From official site: Non-smoking: F2Go Upper NU1, 6 and 7; Middle NM1,2 and 6.


Thanks - never knew that. Still - I like sitting in NM4 in the middle - I guess I will have to risk it!
The main thing that bugs me, is people who hold their fag, or blow the smoke in my direction - rather than their companion. They kind of turn from their friend, or twist their head, and send it towards someone they dont know - nice!

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SaigonSaddler
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:46 pm

I've developed a strong opinion about it because of the awful stinking fags most people smoke out here. Absolutely vile! :x

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Duke
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:09 pm

I pride myself on being a honest law abiding hard working man who loves his family
country and football club raised by two wonderful parents who taught me right and
wrong and to respect other people, If i find myself in a non smoking area i simply
dont light up all you non smokers are brain washed into thinking smoking is the cause
of every illness , ailment or disease known to mankind. I am all for smoking and non
smoking areas but totally against a all out ban because it takes away one of things this
country is built on one of the reasons our forefarthers fought 2 world wars for our freedom
of choice

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SaigonSaddler
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:17 pm

DAVEDEAN wrote:I pride myself on being a honest law abiding hard working man who loves his family
country and football club raised by two wonderful parents who taught me right and
wrong and to respect other people, If i find myself in a non smoking area i simply
dont light up all you non smokers are brain washed into thinking smoking is the cause
of every illness , ailment or disease known to mankind. I am all for smoking and non
smoking areas but totally against a all out ban because it takes away one of things this
country is built on one of the reasons our forefarthers fought 2 world wars for our freedom
of choice


I guess you're right in that respect, freedom of choice I mean. It's just the health issue.

However wasn't it recently proved beyond reasonable doubt that smoking is responsible for anthrax and piles?

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HKSaddler
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:20 pm

It sure is, as well as for measles, small pox, HIV, dubya being elected and the growth of fundamentalism, both Moslem and Christian. :)

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Duke
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:22 pm

SaigonSaddler wrote:
DAVEDEAN wrote:I pride myself on being a honest law abiding hard working man who loves his family
country and football club raised by two wonderful parents who taught me right and
wrong and to respect other people, If i find myself in a non smoking area i simply
dont light up all you non smokers are brain washed into thinking smoking is the cause
of every illness , ailment or disease known to mankind. I am all for smoking and non
smoking areas but totally against a all out ban because it takes away one of things this
country is built on one of the reasons our forefarthers fought 2 world wars for our freedom
of choice


I guess you're right in that respect, freedom of choice I mean. It's just the health issue.

However wasn't it recently proved beyond reasonable doubt that smoking is responsible for anthrax and piles?


if i ever get piles theres only one thing to blame.............paul "bloody "merson

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Zippy
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:24 pm

Whilst I agree with having smoking and non-smoking areas indoors, and I'm a smoker, this old cheddar about banning it in open spaces in nonsense.

There are no smoking blocks at Bescot already, if anyone is that upset by smoking, maybe they should put themselves in one of these areas.

Cully
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:26 pm

sj wrote:Goeff-- you are acting like the newly converted, moral high ground self-righteous stuff. I'm agin you on two points me old pal. Firstly on a practical note, if you light up next to me it is very very unlikely that I will breath in any of your smoke. There is always a draft/wind in the bescot moving the air around.

Secondly and more importantly, the attitude you reflect is one of intolerance for the needs/feelings of others. Taken to its logical conclusion they become the new social scapegoats, the unclean, those with the problem. The problem that must be eradicated. and you know where that can lead.

Sorry lads but this type of social outlook is fraught with dangers for all of us, please dont let it inflict our peaceful little club.

I dont smoke


What's happening to you sj, doesn't life teach you anything? Your first point is complete rubbish and goes against any experience that I have had around smokers who choose to pollute not only the surrounding air but also the vast semi enclosed areas at Bescot with their cancer sticks. There are a number of smokers that sit within 3 or 4 rows of me and the noxtious smoke always tends to permeate all areas.
Your second point is probably the most ridiculous and contraditory statement you have made in your adopted social guise, I thought that you cared about the abuse and exploitation of the human race, in particular those within the lower social levels of society. The 'workers' the 'working class' call them what you will, people that perform most of those tasks that others would rather avoid. These people form the majority of smokers and despite what others might think they are usually below average intelligence. You seem quite happy to defend these peoples right to smoke regardless of the consequences to their health and the financial cost to society in treating them for smoking related diseases, regardless to the effect on the majority who abhore the habit, regardless to the damage that this addiction causes throughout the Third World. For those that have a brain and continue to smoke let them continue to justify their actions, I'm sure that the 'happy clapper' approach to their habit will eventually lead them to the obvious conclusion and premature death. Its a pity that we have to waste health resources in treating these individuals who lack the responsibility for their own actions.
There is only one plus side to smoking and thats putting money in the pockets of the manufacturers.
I wish I owned a cigarette factory, you'd be my first appointment!

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SaigonSaddler
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:31 pm

Careful people, Cully has let off a stinker!

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HKSaddler
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:46 pm

Cully wrote:
sj wrote:Goeff-- you are acting like the newly converted, moral high ground self-righteous stuff. I'm agin you on two points me old pal. Firstly on a practical note, if you light up next to me it is very very unlikely that I will breath in any of your smoke. There is always a draft/wind in the bescot moving the air around.

Secondly and more importantly, the attitude you reflect is one of intolerance for the needs/feelings of others. Taken to its logical conclusion they become the new social scapegoats, the unclean, those with the problem. The problem that must be eradicated. and you know where that can lead.

Sorry lads but this type of social outlook is fraught with dangers for all of us, please dont let it inflict our peaceful little club.

I dont smoke


What's happening to you sj, doesn't life teach you anything? Your first point is complete rubbish and goes against any experience that I have had around smokers who choose to pollute not only the surrounding air but also the vast semi enclosed areas at Bescot with their cancer sticks. There are a number of smokers that sit within 3 or 4 rows of me and the noxtious smoke always tends to permeate all areas.
Your second point is probably the most ridiculous and contraditory statement you have made in your adopted social guise, I thought that you cared about the abuse and exploitation of the human race, in particular those within the lower social levels of society. The 'workers' the 'working class' call them what you will, people that perform most of those tasks that others would rather avoid. These people form the majority of smokers and despite what others might think they are usually below average intelligence. You seem quite happy to defend these peoples right to smoke regardless of the consequences to their health and the financial cost to society in treating them for smoking related diseases, regardless to the effect on the majority who abhore the habit, regardless to the damage that this addiction causes throughout the Third World. For those that have a brain and continue to smoke let them continue to justify their actions, I'm sure that the 'happy clapper' approach to their habit will eventually lead them to the obvious conclusion and premature death. Its a pity that we have to waste health resources in treating these individuals who lack the responsibility for their own actions.
There is only one plus side to smoking and thats putting money in the pockets of the manufacturers.
I wish I owned a cigarette factory, you'd be my first appointment!


Another person who seems to think that smokers are evil. Our huge cost in health care is at least partially offset by exorbitant tobacco taxes. As we die earlier we help slow down the rate at which our populations are aging. We take less in social security and/or pensions because we die earlier.

It's my right to kill myself in this way just as other people have the right to kill themselves jumping out of airplanes, drinking, climbing mountains, etc. I understand the need for restrictions, but they have to be reasonable. You have to recognise my freedom to smoke, just as I recognise your right to not being poisoned by my smoking.

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Manchester Saddler
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:54 pm

sj wrote:Goeff-- you are acting like the newly converted, moral high ground self-righteous stuff. I'm agin you on two points me old pal. Firstly on a practical note, if you light up next to me it is very very unlikely that I will breath in any of your smoke. There is always a draft/wind in the bescot moving the air around.

Secondly and more importantly, the attitude you reflect is one of intolerance for the needs/feelings of others. Taken to its logical conclusion they become the new social scapegoats, the unclean, those with the problem. The problem that must be eradicated. and you know where that can lead.

Sorry lads but this type of social outlook is fraught with dangers for all of us, please dont let it inflict our peaceful little club.

I dont smoke


It should be banned from every public place including Bescot Stadium.

It is the most anti-social addiction and a threat to the health of the smoker and the unfortunate people in the vicinity. I hate going to smokey pubs and I hate standing or sitting next to smokers in open air.

Just ban it! Tony has not gone far enough in this case!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:

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Saddler Jim
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:55 pm

A more important question is, would a smoking ban be enforced,I am a smoker,but never have one wene sitting in the upper uf2go as I think its not fair to the non smokers, some people do lite up in front of the security and they never say a word,altho there is a smoking ban.its seems that any ban that might be in place is will not be enforced.

Cully
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:03 pm

HK I did not say smokers were evil but I think that smoking is. Carry on smoking, die early of whatever disease smoking may gift you, carry on paying exorbitant taxes, take less in pensions, continue to smell of stale smoke on your clothes and your breath, carry on as long as you can convince yourself and others that you have a 'right to smoke'. Just take a moment to think about the consequences of your actions, if you have children think about how they might miss those years that you are happy to deny them.
However, I do feel some sympathy for you in that you are gripped by an addiction that is not easily rid. I'm sure you wish you had never started, good luck in giving up.

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Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:08 pm

It will be banned totaly in public before long anyway because most civilised countries are recognising just what anasty habit it is and the extent of damage it causes so the smokers can bleat all they like , the sooner the better ! :lol:

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Manchester Saddler
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:18 pm

Cully wrote:HK I did not say smokers were evil but I think that smoking is. Carry on smoking, die early of whatever disease smoking may gift you, carry on paying exorbitant taxes, take less in pensions, continue to smell of stale smoke on your clothes and your breath, carry on as long as you can convince yourself and others that you have a 'right to smoke'. Just take a moment to think about the consequences of your actions, if you have children think about how they might miss those years that you are happy to deny them.
However, I do feel some sympathy for you in that you are gripped by an addiction that is not easily rid. I'm sure you wish you had never started, good luck in giving up.


Do we agree on something Cully? Bloody Hell!!!

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geoffwhiting
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:21 pm

I'd really like to exercise my right to go to the pub - any pub - at night, showered, in my clean clothes, and not have to go home afterwards with the stink of smoke in my hair, on my skin and on my clothes.

Why do my clothes need washing after one visit to the pub, why do they still stink the next morning, smoking stinks, smokers stink, I know, I used to be one !

Cully
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:23 pm

Manchester Saddler wrote:[Just ban it! Tony has not gone far enough in this case!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:


Why do you think Princess Tony doesn't have a total ban? Heard the one about all the 'Working class man who has a right to have a fag at the end of his back breaking shift putting money in the pocket of the Capitalists' Step forward John Reid, who cares about anyones health when there are votes to be had amongst those 'working class' dregs. Piss of back to Jock land and shut the door behind you John. :twisted:

Cully
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:25 pm

Manchester, you know you want to :lol:

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HKSaddler
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:41 pm

Cully wrote:HK I did not say smokers were evil but I think that smoking is. Carry on smoking, die early of whatever disease smoking may gift you, carry on paying exorbitant taxes, take less in pensions, continue to smell of stale smoke on your clothes and your breath, carry on as long as you can convince yourself and others that you have a 'right to smoke'. Just take a moment to think about the consequences of your actions, if you have children think about how they might miss those years that you are happy to deny them.
However, I do feel some sympathy for you in that you are gripped by an addiction that is not easily rid. I'm sure you wish you had never started, good luck in giving up.


But you certainly implied it. We kill others, we spend your hard earned taxes, we destroy the environment.

I would like to give up, but more help is given to heroine addicts than to smokers. Illegal drug addicts need help, smokers just have to get on with giving up with just a hotline and self control. Methadone is available on the NHS, whilst nicorette (and others) cost as much as smoking a pack a day.

Maybe that's changed in the UK since I left, but it was certainly the case 15 years ago. I don't resent Heroine addicts the help they receive, but there could be some help for smokers which isn't just "put a colour photo of a lung on the pack and they'll stop."

Anyway, as I live 1000's of mles away, I won't kill you or spend your taxes on health care. I may take out a few people in HK, but the massive pollution here probably does that already. I'm sure my private health insurance will easily cover my medical issues if and when they arrive.

You know, I am supportive of bans on smoking in restaurants, bars, enclosed shopping malls, shops, even stadia and other high density public areas in the open air. I am concerned that I am massively villified by the anti-smoking lobby. I feel that I have become public enemy number 1 merely because of an addiction I have. In a world where people are tortured, robbed, raped, killed, my smoking seems to be the main problem in the world for some people.

Anyway, it's now 3:41am here. I have already spent longer on this topic than I ever intended. I'm not as commited to anti-anti-smoking as I may have come across tonight (yesterday my time), I just get a little ticked off on occasions.

'night all.

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geoffwhiting
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:44 pm

No staying power, some people !! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Manchester Saddler
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:46 pm

Cully wrote:Manchester, you know you want to :lol:


In your dreams :D

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sj
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:47 pm

Cully you're nasty nasty man :lol: You are this boards Mr Punch--a psychopath bereft of feelings for his fellow saddlers.

Saddly Like Dear Geoff you miss my point. Cully this hang um, ban um, punish um position is always the "moral majority" stopping the rest of us doing the stuff we like to do.

Cully my point is about FREEDOM and LIBERTY. Smoking is silly and harmful to all but not as harmful as being told what to , when to do it, and how to do it.

Cully if I want to run with the Bulls or have smoke or whatever- you must allow me to do it.

The populist attitude of restricting this and banning that is the thin end of the wedge of a repressive, sterile society.

Cully dont you see that your attitude (and Geoffs) will lead in the end to that which you hate the most---Yes "The Nanny State. :twisted:


Cully come with me on this one I'm trying to help you, to save you from yourself. Trust me :shock:

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Manchester Saddler
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:51 pm

sj wrote:Cully you're nasty nasty man :lol: You are this boards Mr Punch--a psychopath bereft of feelings for his fellow saddlers.

Saddly Like Dear Geoff you miss my point. Cully this hang um, ban um, punish um position is always the "moral majority" stopping the rest of us doing the stuff we like to do.

Cully my point is about FREEDOM and LIBERTY. Smoking is silly and harmful to all but not as harmful as being told what to , when to do it, and how to do it.

Cully if I want to run with the Bulls or have smoke or whatever- you must allow me to do it.

The populist attitude of restricting this and banning that is the thin end of the wedge of a repressive, sterile society.

Cully dont you see that your attitude (and Geoffs) will lead in the end to that which you hate the most---Yes "The Nanny State. :twisted:


Cully come with me on this one I'm trying to help you, to save you from yourself. Trust me :shock:


SJ that's ridiculous! Smoking is more harmful than being told what to do? Ban smoking in public places and let smokers kill themselves in their own homes, hopefully without there being any kids there to breath in second and smoke. I'm firmly with Geoff and, as much as it pains me to say this, I'm also with the evil Cully!

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sj
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:58 pm

Mancherter you make me smile, I'm smiling whilst typing this.

Being told what to do is the most destuctive thing in the world because its always THEM telling me. Makes my blood boil. What the fudge do they know ? Answer that Mancherster

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