SOTV

[chestersaddler]

The sad truth is that glory hunting has become the norm. Football, the latest karaoke singers, actors etc....

I'm not sure how much more the club can do to attract new fans apart from a wealthy benefactor coming along who will subsidise the next twenty years. Even then there is no guarantee. Look at Blackburn or Wigan.

[Magic Man Fan]

What a load of old betties, Geoff, if you don't mind me saying :D

I agree. Even taking the other Midland clubs out of the equation, the amount of glory hunters from Walsall is sickening.

If you turned those into Walsall fans, you'd see five figure crowds at least.

If, if, if, if ?? What a small word with such a big impact. So FBIG, how would you propose to turn these people into Walsall fans then?

How about their parents give their kids a sense of local pride? Make them realise they should be proud of where they're from, and that they can't always have what they want in life. Kids get given everything they want these days, and that includes supporting whichever team is top of the Premier League that day. And people wonder why they all grow up to be spoilt, workshy wuckfits. I'd suggest that kids who support Walsall, grow up to be much more rounded individuals than glory hunting brats. In fact all glory hunters suffer from a lack of intelligence, which is why most of them are pot noodle eating, blue pop drinking scrubbers.

[chestersaddler]

You can take yourself and your kid/s to Walsall for around £10 a game can't you ? Pretty good value I'd say.

As mentioned, they need to take it a step further and offer more of an incentive to get them there in the first place.

More like 20 quid. Plus your 3 quid for a program full of adverts. :lol:

No, if you have an early bird ST, it's more like 10quid, with as many kids as you want isn't it ?

I dont know i dont have one. If you dont though its 21.50/23.50 for an Adult and a Junior ticket.

That's what I pay for home tickets.

[latviancheese]

Well said MMF.

Walsall will also continue to be a shithole until people take some pride in it and make it into a nicer place.

I dont think a 17 year old with legs that open more than the doors of a 24 hour asda can install pride in anyone or anything though.

[We-ARE-Walsall]

What a load of old betties, Geoff, if you don't mind me saying :D

I agree. Even taking the other Midland clubs out of the equation, the amount of glory hunters from Walsall is sickening.

If you turned those into Walsall fans, you'd see five figure crowds at least.

If, if, if, if ?? What a small word with such a big impact. So FBIG, how would you propose to turn these people into Walsall fans then?

How about their parents give their kids a sense of local pride? Make them realise they should be proud of where they're from, and that they can't always have what they want in life. Kids get given everything they want these days, and that includes supporting whichever team is top of the Premier League that day. And people wonder why they all grow up to be spoilt, workshy wuckfits. I'd suggest that kids who support Walsall, grow up to be much more rounded individuals than glory hunting brats. In fact all glory hunters suffer from a lack of intelligence, which is why most of them are pot noodle eating, blue pop drinking scrubbers.

If you are gonna choose to glory hunt, first lesson, don't choose Aston Villa :lol:

Do kids not want to do what their Dad does these days? It was no different when I was a kid, class full of Villa "fans" They didn't go to games or anything though. They took the piss constantly about me supporting Walsall, never cared one bit. I just wanted to do what my Dad did. He taught me it wasn't just about a football team, but they were representing the town. I can honestly say hand on heart, I wouldn't change a single thing if I could do it all again. Can go to any away game, walk in a pub and know someone who I can have a drink and a laugh with.

I think a lot of the younger people who do go to Walsall games now, don't really understand what it is all about, educate the young, so Walsall Football Club can have a future.

[tinned]

I'm making this up as I go along.

And in those couple of minutes of rambling you've come up with better ideas than the club have managed in the last 20. Imagine what the club could do if they really put their minds to it.

[King Crimson]

I'm making this up as I go along.

And in those couple of minutes of rambling you've come up with better ideas than the club have managed in the last 20. Imagine what the club could do if they really put their minds to it.

Cheers matey. I follow the 'infinite number of monkeys with infinite number of typewriters' philosophy with my posts. If I ramble enough I may one day post a 'Macbeth' on the board. :idea:

;)

[geoffwhiting]

10 minutes gone at Swansea, Swansea 1 Villa 0, and the Sky commentator says it could have been 5-0 already. Not much improvement then, and Villa look like being embarrassed again. Should keep most of you guys happy, but doesn't help the reputation of West Midlands football one bit. :?

[We-ARE-Walsall]

Albion are doing well this season though, despite losing today. If it were Albion getting smashed each week, and Villa in the top six I doubt anything much would have been made of it.

Villa had their chance to push on when Martin O'Neil was manager, they failed to back him (as much as he thought he deserved) and since then have spent little money and had a couple of very poor managers, was only going to end one way. They wanted Ellis out at all costs, seems the grass isn't always greener.

[latviancheese]

10 minutes gone at Swansea, Swansea 1 Villa 0, and the Sky commentator says it could have been 5-0 already. Not much improvement then, and Villa look like being embarrassed again. Should keep most of you guys happy, but doesn't help the reputation of West Midlands football one bit. :?

What "reputation"? :? :?

[derbysaddler]

Bloody hell what do you want a claret & blue shrine or something?

[Exile]

10 minutes gone at Swansea, Swansea 1 Villa 0, and the Sky commentator says it could have been 5-0 already. Not much improvement then, and Villa look like being embarrassed again. Should keep most of you guys happy, but doesn't help the reputation of West Midlands football one bit. :?

The more they lose the worse they look, and I hope some of the lads and lasses in Walsall look a bit closer to home as the gloss wears off the plastic up the road.

Sod their reputation, let's look at ours first.

[Aldridge_saddler]

10 minutes gone at Swansea, Swansea 1 Villa 0, and the Sky commentator says it could have been 5-0 already. Not much improvement then, and Villa look like being embarrassed again. Should keep most of you guys happy, but doesn't help the reputation of West Midlands football one bit. :?

The more they lose the worse they look, and I hope some of the lads and lasses in Walsall look a bit closer to home as the gloss wears off the plastic up the road.

Sod their reputation, let's look at ours first.

To improve our reputation, in Geoff's eyes, will cost £900k.

But lets worry about Villa eh!?

[We-ARE-Walsall]

Looks to me like Villa may just stay up based on the fact there are 3 sides (and only 3 sides) worse than them. Buggers.
Will be close though.

I doubt it will have any affect on the reputation of midlands football whether they finish 4th from bottom, or drop through the trap door, we will still be a laughing stock, as much because of our awful accent and fickle fans as anything else.

[chestersaddler]

Looks to me like Villa may just stay up based on the fact there are 3 sides (and only 3 sides) worse than them. Buggers.
Will be close though.

I doubt it will have any affect on the reputation of midlands football whether they finish 4th from bottom, or drop through the trap door, we will still be a laughing stock, as much because of our awful accent and fickle fans as anything else.

According to a couple of lads from work that went yesterday, Villa were the worst side they have seen in the Premier League by a country mile (and that includes the Dingles last season :lol: ) Apparantly Swansea should have been out of sight after half an hour

[We-ARE-Walsall]

Looks to me like Villa may just stay up based on the fact there are 3 sides (and only 3 sides) worse than them. Buggers.
Will be close though.

I doubt it will have any affect on the reputation of midlands football whether they finish 4th from bottom, or drop through the trap door, we will still be a laughing stock, as much because of our awful accent and fickle fans as anything else.

According to a couple of lads from work that went yesterday, Villa were the worst side they have seen in the Premier League by a country mile (and that includes the Dingles last season :lol: ) Apparantly Swansea should have been out of sight after half an hour

Fingers crossed then eh ? Can't see them being worse than Q.P.R to be honest, or Reading, but I'd be happy to take their word for it. :lol:

[Magic Man Fan]

10 minutes gone at Swansea, Swansea 1 Villa 0, and the Sky commentator says it could have been 5-0 already. Not much improvement then, and Villa look like being embarrassed again. Should keep most of you guys happy, but doesn't help the reputation of West Midlands football one bit. :?

Walsall is West Midland football for me. Couldn't give a stuff about the other teams, or what the press perceive to be West Midlands football. And whilst you were worrying about how many Villa were going to lose by, I was too busy watching Walsall. The team, we're all supposed to support.

Incidentally Geoff, they won again and will improve on the last couple of seasons, despite a reduced budget, and having to rely on kids. In the process we're playing much better football, raining shots in on goal, and scoring goals that they'd be raving about on match of the day. Smith has had to rely on a young team, but they're playing for the shirt. You should take a look. I'm sure you will, as we're on telly on Friday. Support Murdoch, instead of Bonser. Murdoch is no slimy, scheming businessman, with no respect for his customer base though, is he?

I guess if we splashed your required £900k, we could get a couple of high profile mercenaries, who ultimately wouldn't make any difference to our final league position, but it would keep you happy, and make you return eh?

[geoffwhiting]

10 minutes gone at Swansea, Swansea 1 Villa 0, and the Sky commentator says it could have been 5-0 already. Not much improvement then, and Villa look like being embarrassed again. Should keep most of you guys happy, but doesn't help the reputation of West Midlands football one bit. :?

Walsall is West Midland football for me. Couldn't give a stuff about the other teams, or what the press perceive to be West Midlands football. And whilst you were worrying about how many Villa were going to lose by, I was too busy watching Walsall. The team, we're all supposed to support.

Incidentally Geoff, they won again and will improve on the last couple of seasons, despite a reduced budget, and having to rely on kids. In the process we're playing much better football, raining shots in on goal, and scoring goals that they'd be raving about on match of the day. Smith has had to rely on a young team, but they're playing for the shirt. You should take a look. I'm sure you will, as we're on telly on Friday. Support Murdoch, instead of Bonser. Murdoch is no slimy, scheming businessman, with no respect for his customer base though, is he?

I guess if we splashed your required £900k, we could get a couple of high profile mercenaries, who ultimately wouldn't make any difference to our final league position, but it would keep you happy, and make you return eh?

MMF, my reasons for staying away are well documented, as I'm sure you know. They are MY reasons, and whether anyone accepts them or not, I'm entitled to have them and to follow them.

The recent improvement on the pitch is as welcome to me as to anyone, and long may it continue, but it's not something that will, on its own, draw me back to Bescot. Bonser has sadly knocked that out of me, and he will only regain my support when he invests, or leaves.

I really don't know where this figure of £900k has come from though, I have never suggested that he should stump up that much, and if he did I would not expect it to go on a couple of mercenaries, as you put it. That is nonsense, frankly. I have said that a commitment to a rent holiday of 2 years, enabling money to be directed to team strengthening, would be enough to satisfy me that Bonser has the footballing side of the club at heart. I make that more like £750k - £800k, so I'd say someone's maths is rather a long way out. And that would be invested over 2+ years, not blown on 2 over-priced players - to imply that I have suggested otherwise is simply wrong.

[We-ARE-Walsall]

Can we stick to laughing at the Villa in here please, :)

[Exile]

MMF, my reasons for staying away are well documented, as I'm sure you know. They are MY reasons, and whether anyone accepts them or not, I'm entitled to have them and to follow them.

The recent improvement on the pitch is as welcome to me as to anyone, and long may it continue, but it's not something that will, on its own, draw me back to Bescot. Bonser has sadly knocked that out of me, and he will only regain my support when he invests, or leaves.

I really don't know where this figure of £900k has come from though, I have never suggested that he should stump up that much, and if he did I would not expect it to go on a couple of mercenaries, as you put it. That is nonsense, frankly. I have said that a commitment to a rent holiday of 2 years, enabling money to be directed to team strengthening, would be enough to satisfy me that Bonser has the footballing side of the club at heart. I make that more like £750k - £800k, so I'd say someone's maths is rather a long way out. And that would be invested over 2+ years, not blown on 2 over-priced players - to imply that I have suggested otherwise is simply wrong.

If you think £750k - £800k is two years' rent you must have expected a reduction to have happened, and a figure of £900k is entirely more accurate. As a beanie I'm sure you understand that.

A commitment to a rent holiday is not on the cards, thanks to the ownership structure of the land, and the stadium, all beholden to the taxman and the whim of our glorious owner, so while you pay lip service to a return on your own terms, you know it's never going to happen.

If a putative rent holiday windfall, as you put it, is reinvested over two years, how can it prove to be anything other than a band-aid, be it a couple of mercenaries or a temporary pay rise to our existing squad? We learned the ITV Digital lesson and there's no way the club will spend what it won't get in the future (and why should it?). It's one-off income that won't be replaced, so surely the only way the club can move forward now is to cut it's cloth according to it's ever-shrinking pocket?

Appreciate you have your reasons for staying away, which are much more valid now than 20 years ago of course, but meanwhile the rest of us have a club to support. Your support is like that of the parrot of Monty Python fame: "[It] is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-FAN (sic)!!". We might nail you to the perch but your life force has been extinguished in a public suicide.

The future of Walsall, for sale or otherwise, will depend on someone wanting to buy the club, maybe someone else buying the land, but regardless, the damage was done when Ramsden took us to the brink of disaster and we got allegedly fleeced by Denglen and Davenmanor (I am sure that directors of those companies, or their associates, I think Peter Gilman may know a few, can defend themselves and prove me wrong at any stage by filing some missing accounts). Whatever Bonser's excuse for acquiring the ground (and there are only two, self-aggrandisement or philanthropy), it is the club (OUR club) that's saddled with the everlasting repercussions, and who we pay rent to is immaterial to the future of Walsall FC, especially in the short to medium term.

If you want to spend more time rubbing brass, trainspotting or hanging around in a caravan that's fine by me, If the football's too boring, the players too inferior or the matchday experience not up to scratch that's fine too, but to say that one man has extinguished your flame, then to place unreasonable conditions on your return, and to continue to parade said reasons in front of all other supporters is a bit rich, I'm afraid.

I do appreciate you've been a wonderful supporter in the past, and would not take anything away from that, but don't understand why you think your reasons are rational. If you're happy being a non-contributing follower, all well and good, but I'm not dragging the step ladder around after your high horse.

Meanwhile, this a thread taking the mickey out of a club up the road that draws a large amount of our potential support to their own gates, and I wish them nothing but disaster. That's much more reasonable.

[Fray Bentos is God!]

Here, here, sexy Exy.

The 900k comes from Geoff himself saying that a two year rent holiday, with the money being reimbursed in the team would get him back.

Search through your own posts, Geoffrey, my ladder's not big enough.

[We-ARE-Walsall]

The thing is, we don't even need to spend £900k to have a good side. We already have the basis of a good side, with out paying ridiculous wages, or transfer fees. Sure I'd like us to have a bit more weight, and be able to attract a few more quality players (relative to our division) Maybe if a few more people turned up to watch us, we would have more.

The two year rent holiday is a non starter, I'm no expert on these matters, but it's not even legal is it? If Bonser wanted to put £900k into the team, it would have to come out of his own pocket I think? Which is also never going to happen. So what Geoff is basically saying is, he is never going back. It seems that even when Bonser has gone, we will still be in a similar position anyway, just paying the rent to someone else (if we still have a club at all)

[geoffwhiting]

MMF, my reasons for staying away are well documented, as I'm sure you know. They are MY reasons, and whether anyone accepts them or not, I'm entitled to have them and to follow them.

The recent improvement on the pitch is as welcome to me as to anyone, and long may it continue, but it's not something that will, on its own, draw me back to Bescot. Bonser has sadly knocked that out of me, and he will only regain my support when he invests, or leaves.

I really don't know where this figure of £900k has come from though, I have never suggested that he should stump up that much, and if he did I would not expect it to go on a couple of mercenaries, as you put it. That is nonsense, frankly. I have said that a commitment to a rent holiday of 2 years, enabling money to be directed to team strengthening, would be enough to satisfy me that Bonser has the footballing side of the club at heart. I make that more like £750k - £800k, so I'd say someone's maths is rather a long way out. And that would be invested over 2+ years, not blown on 2 over-priced players - to imply that I have suggested otherwise is simply wrong.

If you think £750k - £800k is two years' rent you must have expected a reduction to have happened, and a figure of £900k is entirely more accurate. As a beanie I'm sure you understand that.

A commitment to a rent holiday is not on the cards, thanks to the ownership structure of the land, and the stadium, all beholden to the taxman and the whim of our glorious owner, so while you pay lip service to a return on your own terms, you know it's never going to happen.

If a putative rent holiday windfall, as you put it, is reinvested over two years, how can it prove to be anything other than a band-aid, be it a couple of mercenaries or a temporary pay rise to our existing squad? We learned the ITV Digital lesson and there's no way the club will spend what it won't get in the future (and why should it?). It's one-off income that won't be replaced, so surely the only way the club can move forward now is to cut it's cloth according to it's ever-shrinking pocket?

Appreciate you have your reasons for staying away, which are much more valid now than 20 years ago of course, but meanwhile the rest of us have a club to support. Your support is like that of the parrot of Monty Python fame: "[It] is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-FAN (sic)!!". We might nail you to the perch but your life force has been extinguished in a public suicide.

The future of Walsall, for sale or otherwise, will depend on someone wanting to buy the club, maybe someone else buying the land, but regardless, the damage was done when Ramsden took us to the brink of disaster and we got allegedly fleeced by Denglen and Davenmanor (I am sure that directors of those companies, or their associates, I think Peter Gilman may know a few, can defend themselves and prove me wrong at any stage by filing some missing accounts). Whatever Bonser's excuse for acquiring the ground (and there are only two, self-aggrandisement or philanthropy), it is the club (OUR club) that's saddled with the everlasting repercussions, and who we pay rent to is immaterial to the future of Walsall FC, especially in the short to medium term.

If you want to spend more time rubbing brass, trainspotting or hanging around in a caravan that's fine by me, If the football's too boring, the players too inferior or the matchday experience not up to scratch that's fine too, but to say that one man has extinguished your flame, then to place unreasonable conditions on your return, and to continue to parade said reasons in front of all other supporters is a bit rich, I'm afraid.

I do appreciate you've been a wonderful supporter in the past, and would not take anything away from that, but don't understand why you think your reasons are rational. If you're happy being a non-contributing follower, all well and good, but I'm not dragging the step ladder around after your high horse.

Meanwhile, this a thread taking the mickey out of a club up the road that draws a large amount of our potential support to their own gates, and I wish them nothing but disaster. That's much more reasonable.

The last time I saw figures quoted, the rent was said to be about £380,000 as far as I recall - are you telling me it's gone up another 18%+ to £450k then? I have never quoted £900k, I couldn't have, because that was not my view on 2 years' rent.

I don't accept this "can't be done" argument either - it's Jeff's pension scheme, he has a degree of power over that. This isn't a pension scheme for 1000s of Rover workers, it's Jeff's. There is even a valid argument that it is in the interests of the pension scheme itself to assist in stabilising its tenant financially, to assure future income.

I really don't see why you don't see the connection between investing in the team and increasing the club's income through the gates, the one would follow the other. I personally know several dozen people who would return if that investment was there, and I'm sure there must be many more that are known to other UTSers, so I'm quite confident that attendances would increase, and income with it. The initial investment over a couple of years is a kick-start, for want of a better expression, not a two-yearly necessity. So it's not just (what you call) a band-aid, it's promoting the business to attract a larger audience for the future. That's what businesses do, or so I thought, if they want to grow. It's organic growth, and it's what Walsall FC needs to halt the decline.

Now, and I hope finally, I wasn't the one who diverted this thread from SOTV, so don't blame me for that. It was MMF and I think, before him, possibly FBIG who started involving me personally and attributing this oddball figure of £900k to me, to which I naturally responded. I'm happy to leave it here and return to SOTV, for those who want to carry out that unpleasant physical act!

[Fray Bentos is God!]

Two years' rent was your price which you said would get you back. Search through your posts if you wish, but this was not an "oddball" event that I plucked from thin air. If it's 380k then whoopedy-doo - your price has gone down to 760k.

[geoffwhiting]

Two years' rent was your price which you said would get you back. Search through your posts if you wish, but this was not an "oddball" event that I plucked from thin air. If it's 380k then whoopedy-doo - your price has gone down to 760k.

Anything in that region (£760k - £800k) would be a massive boost to the budget, and enable the squad to be strengthened. It seems to be quite good now, and one or two decent signings might be all it needs, and if that happened, who knows what we might feel we could achieve. If the ambition seems to be there, I firmly believe a fair number of fans will return, bringing extra gate-money to help boost the finances going forward.

[Exile]

Bonser's loans to the club currently stand at £1.73 million. This money has carried the club through a very difficult post-ITV Digital period (admittedly with plenty wasted by Merson) and enabled it to play its way out of the fourth division. Currently we're cutting our cloth according to our pocket rather than investing any more and this is apparent in the wages we pay and the team fielded on the pitch. Would you want these loans to increase to over £2.5 million just to try and tempt you back? Even if you have as many as 500 like-minded mates, your return to watch the club wouldn't make a dent in the income required to service that debt were Bonser to call it in so forget about it.

A much better boost to the budget would be all the stayaways actually turning up and watching the club they purportedly love instead of killing it with their kindness.

Meanwhile the ambition is still there, but it's a slimmed-down ambition, an ambition to survive in the face of adversity, to triumph against the odds and to succeed against better-funded rivals. Unfortunately some fans seem to believe we're a big club slumming it in league one, rather than a small club championing itself a league above where it currently belongs. The more people see this, the better. The investment you want has been invisible - we have a category 3 EPPP academy which will hopefully enable us to offer more yungsters a better chance of a footballing future at Walsall, and this will underpin our future, which the directors are being realistic about - laying the groundwork for advancement through a systematic and professional development structure instead of throwing money at a problem.

I'm looking forward to the next few seasons - it may be three steps forward, two steps back stuff, but I believe the club is actually doing something right instead of muddling along for the first time in years.

Finally, to keep the thread on track, I sincerely hope Villa get relegated. Twice. Then go bust.

[We-ARE-Walsall]

Be nice to believe there is some light at the end of the tunnel Exy,

The negativity around the club drags us down even further.

Totally agree about the Villa too !

[geoffwhiting]

Bonser's loans to the club currently stand at £1.73 million. This money has carried the club through a very difficult post-ITV Digital period (admittedly with plenty wasted by Merson) and enabled it to play its way out of the fourth division. Currently we're cutting our cloth according to our pocket rather than investing any more and this is apparent in the wages we pay and the team fielded on the pitch. Would you want these loans to increase to over £2.5 million just to try and tempt you back? Even if you have as many as 500 like-minded mates, your return to watch the club wouldn't make a dent in the income required to service that debt were Bonser to call it in so forget about it.

A much better boost to the budget would be all the stayaways actually turning up and watching the club they purportedly love instead of killing it with their kindness.

Meanwhile the ambition is still there, but it's a slimmed-down ambition, an ambition to survive in the face of adversity, to triumph against the odds and to succeed against better-funded rivals. Unfortunately some fans seem to believe we're a big club slumming it in league one, rather than a small club championing itself a league above where it currently belongs. The more people see this, the better. The investment you want has been invisible - we have a category 3 EPPP academy which will hopefully enable us to offer more yungsters a better chance of a footballing future at Walsall, and this will underpin our future, which the directors are being realistic about - laying the groundwork for advancement through a systematic and professional development structure instead of throwing money at a problem.

I'm looking forward to the next few seasons - it may be three steps forward, two steps back stuff, but I believe the club is actually doing something right instead of muddling along for the first time in years.

Finally, to keep the thread on track, I sincerely hope Villa get relegated. Twice. Then go bust.

Won't waste my valuable time on a lengthy rebuttal of that. To put it simply, you obviously think we're OK as we are, and worth investing in (as a fan). I totally disagree, the stayaways returning will never provide enough, unless they do so in droves, and that ain't gonna happen anytime soon. Recovery (of lost fans) has to start with a commitment from the club, not the fans, that's where we fundamentally disagree.

[Exile]

Blow me.

The club's commitment is there for all to see, chariman aside, and he's just a figurehead - the passion's in the future, with Mole, Gamble et al, not Bonser and Whalley. The landlord is a different kettle of fish entirely, but, and here's the key point that you seem to have failed to grasp totally, we can't change the past.

We can help shape the future, and that's what being a fan is all about. I wish we'd never almost gone broke thanks to Ramsden (and sundtry predecessors), wish that GMI, Denglen and Davenmanor hadn't totally kippered us, wish that there'd been an alternative to Bonser, and desperately wish that Bonser had at least tried to keep the land with the club instead of securing his own lucrative future through it (according to him he was the only decent deal on the table besides developers although I don't recall much public effort to find an alternative at the time) but that's what happened in the past. Here's another key point: Staying away makes not the blindest bit of difference to our owner, but it does make a large difference to what the football club can offer.

By the way, has it occurred to you that the younger fans coming to matches weren't even born when the Bescot move and the change in ownership came about? They still come along, hoping, like we did at their age, for a decent match, some great 'terrace' craic, a good cup run and to go home happy. Until you can reconcile yourself with the present you're stuck in a past that we cannot ever change.

Look forward not back, or are you this bitter about every decision you never made in your life? No doubt your time is too valuable to rue those things that might have made a difference, but hey, you've done well, you're heading into the busy period, and you'll have billed a lot of people for your precious time, which is much easier than justifying your (in my opinion) untenable position.

Sorry, stayaways make me angry.

[King Crimson]

Great post, Exile.

Staying away from the club you love because of the owner you hate hurts the club you love whilst having no impact on the owner you hate.

It's at best ill-conceived and at worst a badge of convenience for the onset of apathy.

I think it was the Buddha who said that holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. Knew what he was talking about, that fella.

And whilst I'm getting all philosophical, try this:
'Anger is an acid that does more damage to the vessel in which it is stored than anything on which it is poured.' Similar sentiment, but from Mark Twain. Does anyone think Bonser, or Gilman, or Whalley, or Scott Dann's agent, or the directors of ITV Digital, or David Dein and the others who peddled the notion of the Premiership at the expense of everyone else, etc. lose a nanosecond of sleep over where we find ourselves?

Where we find ourselves is not where we'd hope to be, but nor is it where some of our peer clubs are. I'll finish on another quotation that I think sums my views up: life isn't about waiting for the storms to pass but about learning to dance in the rain.

Portsmouth at home on a Friday night, on the back of two home wins, friends for a fiver - sounds like a decent plan to me.