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SOTV

Threads that have run on UpTheSaddlers that might or might not be worth keeping...
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Fray Bentos is God!
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Re: SOTV

Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:01 pm

I do love a good transfer fact off.

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SheffieldSaddler
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Re: SOTV

Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:22 pm

bangsection wrote:
SheffieldSaddler wrote:I am sure you will agree, if a premiership owner said to a manager, you have 20 million a season to keep us up, its not exactly a grand amount in reality.


Nope, I wouldn't agree. And neither would the FACTS.

Number of clubs who spent less than£24m (Villa's actual outlay) on players this season?

Nine - so almost half the league.

Number of those clubs who are above Villa in the table? Seven. The chairmen of Everton, West Brom, Swansea, West Ham, Fulham, Stoke and Norwich all gave their managers less than £24m - many significantly less - and they've all currently got more points than Lambert's Villa.


Its all relative though isnt it surely?
Out of the 7 clubs you mention, only 2 have really out performed Villa i.e Everton and West Brom.
The others are between 3 and 5 points ahead and could in effect end up below Villa in the table.

5 of the 7 clubs you mention also have an average attendance of 8000+ a match less than Villa, so relatively speaking you would expect Villa to be spending more than these clubs as they have more income.

I suppose the question is really, do you think Lambert as done a good job having spent 20 million.
I would say yes, mainly because of the young squad he as and mainly because of the signings of Lowton and Benteke.
You obviously dont agree but hey I am not surprised.

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Re: SOTV

Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:29 pm

Lambert is a cheating Scottish scumbag. End of.

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Re: SOTV

Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:37 pm

bangsection wrote:
SheffieldSaddler wrote:I am sure you will agree, if a premiership owner said to a manager, you have 20 million a season to keep us up, its not exactly a grand amount in reality.


Nope, I wouldn't agree. And neither would the FACTS.

Number of clubs who spent less than£24m (Villa's actual outlay) on players this season?

Nine - so almost half the league.

Number of those clubs who are above Villa in the table? Seven. The chairmen of Everton, West Brom, Swansea, West Ham, Fulham, Stoke and Norwich all gave their managers less than £24m - many significantly less - and they've all currently got more points than Lambert's Villa.

And not many if them left a 24 million pound striker in the stiffs or on the bench all season, either. It is Lambert's choice to do it this way.

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Re: SOTV

Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:46 pm

SheffieldSaddler wrote:
bangsection wrote:
SheffieldSaddler wrote:I am sure you will agree, if a premiership owner said to a manager, you have 20 million a season to keep us up, its not exactly a grand amount in reality.


Nope, I wouldn't agree. And neither would the FACTS.

Number of clubs who spent less than£24m (Villa's actual outlay) on players this season?

Nine - so almost half the league.

Number of those clubs who are above Villa in the table? Seven. The chairmen of Everton, West Brom, Swansea, West Ham, Fulham, Stoke and Norwich all gave their managers less than £24m - many significantly less - and they've all currently got more points than Lambert's Villa.


Its all relative though isnt it surely?
Out of the 7 clubs you mention, only 2 have really out performed Villa i.e Everton and West Brom.
The others are between 3 and 5 points ahead and could in effect end up below Villa in the table.

5 of the 7 clubs you mention also have an average attendance of 8000+ a match less than Villa, so relatively speaking you would expect Villa to be spending more than these clubs as they have more income.

I suppose the question is really, do you think Lambert as done a good job having spent 20 million.
I would say yes, mainly because of the young squad he as and mainly because of the signings of Lowton and Benteke.
You obviously dont agree but hey I am not surprised.


Your point is completely correct providing you massage the fact that every team mentioned has done better than Villa so far, ignore the fact that your point about attendances/increased finances further enhances that Lambert has underperformed as he's had so much more to work with, and also that he has basically been bailed out by one top player in Benteke (oh and has failed with N'Zogbia and Bent).

Spot on.

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Re: SOTV

Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:48 pm

Sheff's right as long as you give the facts a massage Annabel's Sauna would be chuffed with.

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Re: SOTV

Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:53 pm

Neil Ravenscroft wrote:
And not many if them left a 24 million pound striker in the stiffs or on the bench all season, either. It is Lambert's choice to do it this way.


24 million pound striker?
Who on earth was that?
:roll:

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Re: SOTV

Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:57 pm

Sheff's right as long as you give the facts a massage Annabel's Sauna would be chuffed with.

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Re: SOTV

Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:00 pm

kshammer wrote:
Your point is completely correct providing you massage the fact that every team mentioned has done better than Villa so far, ignore the fact that your point about attendances/increased finances further enhances that Lambert has underperformed as he's had so much more to work with, and also that he has basically been bailed out by one top player in Benteke (oh and has failed with N'Zogbia and Bent).

Spot on.


N'Zogbia was a failure before Lambert.
Bent is not playing because Benteke is, so the right decision as you have stated.

As I said, relatively 20 million is not a lot to spend in the Premiership.

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Re: SOTV

Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:02 pm

SheffieldSaddler wrote:I suppose the question is really, do you think Lambert as done a good job having spent 20 million.
I would say yes, mainly because of the young squad he as and mainly because of the signings of Lowton and Benteke.
You obviously dont agree but hey I am not surprised.


You asserted that Lambert had done well because he had "no money to spend". That has been demonstrated to be factually incorrect.

You have now shifted the goalposts and are arguing that he has done well with the "£20m" (sic) that he has spent. Again, it's £24m. The only empirical way we can judge how well he is doing is to look at the league table. Soccernomics, ay it? And thanks for bringing up the fact that many of the teams above Villa in the league have not only spent less but also have lower income. I hadn't thought of that but it's an excellent way to rebut your own argument.

I think it's perfectly possible to build a case for Lambert having done "a good job" in certain areas this season. Benteke and Lowton have been cracking signings and Villa have played excellent football at times but plenty of teams have been relegated despite having ticked those two boxes. They've also been unbelievably fragile at the back and looked mentally shot on a number of occasions. Something that is reflected in their current league position.

Again, my objection was to your assertion that he has had "no money to spend". I was merely pointing out that he has had more money to spend than almost half the teams in the league.

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Re: SOTV

Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:11 pm

SheffieldSaddler wrote:
kshammer wrote:
Your point is completely correct providing you massage the fact that every team mentioned has done better than Villa so far, ignore the fact that your point about attendances/increased finances further enhances that Lambert has underperformed as he's had so much more to work with, and also that he has basically been bailed out by one top player in Benteke (oh and has failed with N'Zogbia and Bent).

Spot on.


N'Zogbia was a failure before Lambert.
Bent is not playing because Benteke is, so the right decision as you have stated.

As I said, relatively 20 million is not a lot to spend in the Premiership.


My point was that for a manager who had done a "decent job" he had failed to get the best out of his (supposed) better players other than Benteke. N'Zogbia, Bent, even Gabby etc have largely underperformed all year. I accept they weren't his signings but he still didn't get one of them playing until Gabby turned his form a bit recently.

The FACTS are that -

1. Every team mentioned above has done better than Villa this year. No massaging of "relatively" or any of that bollocks - they just have.
2. He has a net spend above most other clubs but has still found himself with the current 4th worst team in the league.

Jury is still out on him massively.

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Re: SOTV

Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:28 pm

kshammer wrote:
SheffieldSaddler wrote:
kshammer wrote:
Your point is completely correct providing you massage the fact that every team mentioned has done better than Villa so far, ignore the fact that your point about attendances/increased finances further enhances that Lambert has underperformed as he's had so much more to work with, and also that he has basically been bailed out by one top player in Benteke (oh and has failed with N'Zogbia and Bent).

Spot on.


N'Zogbia was a failure before Lambert.
Bent is not playing because Benteke is, so the right decision as you have stated.

As I said, relatively 20 million is not a lot to spend in the Premiership.


My point was that for a manager who had done a "decent job" he had failed to get the best out of his (supposed) better players other than Benteke. N'Zogbia, Bent, even Gabby etc have largely underperformed all year. I accept they weren't his signings but he still didn't get one of them playing until Gabby turned his form a bit recently.

The FACTS are that -

1. Every team mentioned above has done better than Villa this year. No massaging of "relatively" or any of that jacksons - they just have.
2. He has a net spend above most other clubs but has still found himself with the current 4th worst team in the league.

Jury is still out on him massively.


Why is the jury out on him? Are we talking about Villa or is mangerial career in general?

Is mangerial career at Norwich is fantastic to say the least. 2 successive promotions and a survival in Premier League.
And all with next to nothing spent.

The bloke as been at Villa less than 12 months, I am not sure what you are expecting him to achieve in those 12 months in all honesty?
Last season Villa finished 16th with 38 points.
This season they are currently 16th with 37 points having spent 20 million quid.

If Villa are in same position this time next year. Perhaps something can be said, but to me you got to give him the chance.

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Re: SOTV

Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:31 pm

You've judged Rafa from brilliant to crap in less time.

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Re: SOTV

Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:36 pm

Fray Bentos is God! wrote:You've judged Rafa from brilliant to crap in less time.


:mrgreen:

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Re: SOTV

Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:40 pm

bangsection wrote:
SheffieldSaddler wrote:I suppose the question is really, do you think Lambert as done a good job having spent 20 million.
I would say yes, mainly because of the young squad he as and mainly because of the signings of Lowton and Benteke.
You obviously dont agree but hey I am not surprised.


You asserted that Lambert had done well because he had "no money to spend". That has been demonstrated to be factually incorrect.

You have now shifted the goalposts and are arguing that he has done well with the "£20m" (sic) that he has spent. Again, it's £24m. The only empirical way we can judge how well he is doing is to look at the league table. Soccernomics, ay it? And thanks for bringing up the fact that many of the teams above Villa in the league have not only spent less but also have lower income. I hadn't thought of that but it's an excellent way to rebut your own argument.

I think it's perfectly possible to build a case for Lambert having done "a good job" in certain areas this season. Benteke and Lowton have been cracking signings and Villa have played excellent football at times but plenty of teams have been relegated despite having ticked those two boxes. They've also been unbelievably fragile at the back and looked mentally shot on a number of occasions. Something that is reflected in their current league position.

Again, my objection was to your assertion that he has had "no money to spend". I was merely pointing out that he has had more money to spend than almost half the teams in the league.


He as spent net 19.95 million. 22.45 out and 2.5 in.
Either way its still not a large amount in Premiership terms relatively.

My argument was that his playing budget should be larger for the club he is at. As I previously stated only Everton and West Brom have really out achieved him out of the clubs you have mentioned. I think Everton is a different case, but certainly West Brom have done miracles considering.

Lets see what position Villa are in this time next season.

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Re: SOTV

Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:45 pm

I haven't seen backing out this fast since for ages. Villa have x amount of clubs who've done better on less. Only two count though apparently!

In breaking football news, European cups won on penalties don't count!

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Re: SOTV

Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:52 pm

SheffieldSaddler wrote:
bangsection wrote:
SheffieldSaddler wrote:I suppose the question is really, do you think Lambert as done a good job having spent 20 million.
I would say yes, mainly because of the young squad he as and mainly because of the signings of Lowton and Benteke.
You obviously dont agree but hey I am not surprised.


You asserted that Lambert had done well because he had "no money to spend". That has been demonstrated to be factually incorrect.

You have now shifted the goalposts and are arguing that he has done well with the "£20m" (sic) that he has spent. Again, it's £24m. The only empirical way we can judge how well he is doing is to look at the league table. Soccernomics, ay it? And thanks for bringing up the fact that many of the teams above Villa in the league have not only spent less but also have lower income. I hadn't thought of that but it's an excellent way to rebut your own argument.

I think it's perfectly possible to build a case for Lambert having done "a good job" in certain areas this season. Benteke and Lowton have been cracking signings and Villa have played excellent football at times but plenty of teams have been relegated despite having ticked those two boxes. They've also been unbelievably fragile at the back and looked mentally shot on a number of occasions. Something that is reflected in their current league position.

Again, my objection was to your assertion that he has had "no money to spend". I was merely pointing out that he has had more money to spend than almost half the teams in the league.


He as spent net 19.95 million. 22.45 out and 2.5 in.
Either way its still not a large amount in Premiership terms relatively.

My argument was that his playing budget should be larger for the club he is at. As I previously stated only Everton and West Brom have really out achieved him out of the clubs you have mentioned. I think Everton is a different case, but certainly West Brom have done miracles considering.

Lets see what position Villa are in this time next season.


Much the same, or slightly better with a different manager at a guess.

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Re: SOTV

Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:10 pm

SheffieldSaddler wrote:
He as spent net 19.95 million. 22.45 out and 2.5 in.
Either way its still not a large amount in Premiership terms relatively.

My argument was that his playing budget should be larger for the club he is at.


You're forgetting Sylla (Surprise Surprise!) signed in January. He's spent £24,490,400 this season.

His transfer outlay is bigger than nine other clubs in the league. Relatively.

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Re: SOTV

Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:15 pm

SheffieldSaddler wrote:
kshammer wrote:
SheffieldSaddler wrote:
kshammer wrote:
Your point is completely correct providing you massage the fact that every team mentioned has done better than Villa so far, ignore the fact that your point about attendances/increased finances further enhances that Lambert has underperformed as he's had so much more to work with, and also that he has basically been bailed out by one top player in Benteke (oh and has failed with N'Zogbia and Bent).

Spot on.


N'Zogbia was a failure before Lambert.
Bent is not playing because Benteke is, so the right decision as you have stated.

As I said, relatively 20 million is not a lot to spend in the Premiership.


My point was that for a manager who had done a "decent job" he had failed to get the best out of his (supposed) better players other than Benteke. N'Zogbia, Bent, even Gabby etc have largely underperformed all year. I accept they weren't his signings but he still didn't get one of them playing until Gabby turned his form a bit recently.

The FACTS are that -

1. Every team mentioned above has done better than Villa this year. No massaging of "relatively" or any of that jacksons - they just have.
2. He has a net spend above most other clubs but has still found himself with the current 4th worst team in the league.

Jury is still out on him massively.


Why is the jury out on him? Are we talking about Villa or is mangerial career in general?

Is mangerial career at Norwich is fantastic to say the least. 2 successive promotions and a survival in Premier League.
And all with next to nothing spent.

The bloke as been at Villa less than 12 months, I am not sure what you are expecting him to achieve in those 12 months in all honesty?
Last season Villa finished 16th with 38 points.
This season they are currently 16th with 37 points having spent 20 million quid.

If Villa are in same position this time next year. Perhaps something can be said, but to me you got to give him the chance.


Jury is out based on Villa. Don't deny his record with Norwich.

Obviously he deserves the chance to continue but I honestly don't expect them to be any further forward next year, even if he spends another £20m. God help them if they sell Benteke (and Weimann - has he signed a new deal yet?) then they will be in trouble.

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Re: SOTV

Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:54 pm

bangsection wrote:
SheffieldSaddler wrote:
He as spent net 19.95 million. 22.45 out and 2.5 in.
Either way its still not a large amount in Premiership terms relatively.

My argument was that his playing budget should be larger for the club he is at.


You're forgetting Sylla (Surprise Surprise!) signed in January. He's spent £24,490,400 this season.

His transfer outlay is bigger than nine other clubs in the league. Relatively.


I didnt forget Sylla though :roll:

This is how the 22.45 is made up

Karim El Ahmadi £2,000,000
Matthew Lowton £3,000,000
Ron Vlaar £3,200,000
Joe Bennett £2,750,000
Jordan Bowery £500,000
Christian Benteke £7,000,000
Ashley R Westwood £2,000,000
Yacouba Sylla £2,000,000

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Re: SOTV

Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:25 pm

Depends where you get your figures from. And whether the transfers were in euros and then rounded down or up when converted to pounds. But still, that's either 22 million or 24 million pounds more than the "no money" that you originally claimed Lambert had spent.

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Re: SOTV

Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:30 pm

bangsection wrote:Depends where you get your figures from. And whether the transfers were in euros and then rounded down or up when converted to pounds. But still, that's either 22 million or 24 million pounds more than the "no money" that you originally claimed Lambert had spent.


And also (nett) £8-10m more than their average over the last five years.

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Re: SOTV

Wed May 01, 2013 7:04 am

tinned wrote:Lambert is a cheating Scottish scumbag. End of.


And he doesn't like our pitch!

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Re: SOTV

Wed May 01, 2013 7:33 am

Willenhall Saddler wrote:
tinned wrote:Lambert is a cheating Scottish scumbag. End of.


And he doesn't like our pitch!


Who does? :?

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Re: SOTV

Sat May 04, 2013 3:44 pm

Wigan 3-2 v bagladies, CMON Norwic :!: h

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Re: SOTV

Sat May 04, 2013 3:48 pm

boringteacher wrote:Wigan 3-2 v bagladies, CMON Norwic :!: h


Cack :(

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Re: SOTV

Sat May 04, 2013 3:50 pm

chestersaddler wrote:
boringteacher wrote:Wigan 3-2 v bagladies, CMON Norwic :!: h


Cack :(

Useless webfingered Scunthorpe - hope the north sea floods them. They've let us down again.

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Re: SOTV

Sat May 04, 2013 3:52 pm

Mixed emotions for Midlands football.

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Re: SOTV

Sun May 05, 2013 8:31 am

Fray Bentos is God! wrote:Mixed emotions for Midlands football.


Well it now looks like they will survive, and although it almost makes me choke to say this, Lambert deserves a lot of credit for sticking to his principles and keeping faith with his young players. I can see them going from strength to strength from now on :(

His employers also deserve credit for not sacking him after the Bradford debacle and run of poor results during the winter months.

Contrast that with the Dingles sacking of McCarthy at a similar point the previous year.

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Re: SOTV

Sun May 05, 2013 8:45 am

chestersaddler wrote:
Fray Bentos is God! wrote:Mixed emotions for Midlands football.


Well it now looks like they will survive, and although it almost makes me choke to say this, Lambert deserves a lot of credit for sticking to his principles and keeping faith with his young players. I can see them going from strength to strength from now on :(


They'll be nothing without Benteke when he is sold in the summer. Even so, I don't think they'll be in a relegation scrap though. This was the chance!

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