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Questions to send to Roy and co

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swiftyboy
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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:47 pm

OmmerEmCradley wrote:
swiftyboy wrote:
OmmerEmCradley wrote:But you, nor I, can prove it one way or the other that the email is or isn't genuine.


Of course i frigging can! I copied and pasted it straight from my in-box!

What is it with you? You always have to question the legitimacy of peoples posts!


I cut and pasted this email from my inbox:

Dear Mr OEC

Thank you for your recent letter requesting clarification of some issues that you have read on the fansite UTS. I was very interested to hear that I had been quoted in one thread by Mr Dwayne Swift, who allegedly copied an email i sent to him in response to some of his earlier correspondence to the club. I perused the aforementioned site and read my alleged email with amusement. I can assure you that this email, nor any email remotely similar to that one shown was sent by any club employee or me.

I would be happy to meet to discuss the issues you raised in your letter and also to continue the chat we had last Saturday after the game. Please telephone me to arrange a suitable time for you to come to the Banks's Stadium. I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Regards

R Whalley


No you didnt cut and paste it from your inbox you effing idiot.

You made it up cos you think you are funny.

Do you really think i would post a made up e-mail with Mr Whalley as the sender on a public site if it was made up? Im sure the club would do me for libel. Like i said to another poster, another idiot called Percie, why dont you ASK Mr Whalley yourself if the e-mail is genuine?

Yoy wont do that though will you you? Dont like being proved wrong do you? As you have been put in your place on a few occaisions before. You just dissapear for a few days till its forgotten

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:50 pm

Any more personal abuse and people will get suspended.

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swiftyboy
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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:54 pm

Whitters wrote:Rather than do this impersonally by letter as Bangor has suggested....

A question for Mr W.
Does he and Mr B realise that if they spent a couple of hours over maybe a curry and a few beers with a small group which includes Pedagogue and Geordiesaddler (and a couple of others) then they may be able to clear up a number of issues which on communicating to fans via this board may result in a friendly relationship with the fans to everyones mutual benefit?
Then maybe there would be closure and we could all get on with life.



This was tried last year Whitters if you remember?

I sat in a room with Mr Bonser, and with other staff on numerous occaisions. I said that the main objective from fans was to improve communication. I suggested a 6 monthly meetings where i would compile a list of questions, concerns, and suggestions from Walsall fans, submitted to UTS and thus enabling me to obtain answers "from the horses mouth", which i would then relay back on UTS. It was met with 100% negativity, as they claimed, and still do that UTS is nothing more than a "fringe" web-site full of hooligans, hiding behind usernames.

The early promise, and the agreed regular meetings were brought to a premature end as soon as i started asking the questions that have been so passionately discussed on this site over the past few weeks.

Its a no go

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tinned
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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:00 pm

I've been to many Focus Meetings. I've been involved in many letters to the club from the Trust. In the end it boils down to the same thing. If you're asking questions about such weighty subjects as the colour of next season's away shirt, the positioning of programme sellers or the fact you're bloody angry at the fact that the sink in the F2G toilet is out of order then you can quite happily ask away. However, if you dare start mentioning subjects such has freeholds/rent/pension funds then you will be treated as 'an enemy of the state' and have your motives questioned. Even constructive criticism is not tolerated. Basically anything other than being a nodding dog will result in being publically rubbished.

It's when organisations are so paranoid that many people start to wonder why that is.

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OmmerEmCradley
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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:01 pm

swiftyboy wrote:Do you really think i would post a made up e-mail with Mr Whalley as the sender on a public site if it was made up? Im sure the club would do me for libel. Like i said to another poster, another idiot called Percie, why dont you ASK Mr Whalley yourself if the e-mail is genuine?
Yoy wont do that though will you you? Dont like being proved wrong do you? As you have been put in your place on a few occaisions before. You just dissapear for a few days till its forgotten


I DID ASK and you have seen his response

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Whitters
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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:02 pm

Thanks Swiftyboy.
Well it does look like there is no option other than years of rumours, conspiracy theories, stayaways and unrest.
Unless of course you want to try again?

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tinned
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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:06 pm

OmmerEmCradley wrote:
swiftyboy wrote:Do you really think i would post a made up e-mail with Mr Whalley as the sender on a public site if it was made up? Im sure the club would do me for libel. Like i said to another poster, another idiot called Percie, why dont you ASK Mr Whalley yourself if the e-mail is genuine?
Yoy wont do that though will you you? Dont like being proved wrong do you? As you have been put in your place on a few occaisions before. You just dissapear for a few days till its forgotten


I DID ASK and you have seen his response


Of course Mr Whalley would never, ever stretch the truth ever so slightly to try and rubbish people he see's as enemies would he?

For instance, he would never use his column in the matchday programme to warn people off using this site would he? Would he? Oh yes he bloody would. Apparently the owner of this site is a person who lives in London and has absolutely nothing to do with Walsall FC.

Scared of free speech are you Mr Whalley? Was that why you tried to have this site closed down? Or was it because for years this site has knocked your sterile effort into a cocked hat for news & opinions?

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swiftyboy
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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:07 pm

OmmerEmCradley wrote:
swiftyboy wrote:Do you really think i would post a made up e-mail with Mr Whalley as the sender on a public site if it was made up? Im sure the club would do me for libel. Like i said to another poster, another idiot called Percie, why dont you ASK Mr Whalley yourself if the e-mail is genuine?
Yoy wont do that though will you you? Dont like being proved wrong do you? As you have been put in your place on a few occaisions before. You just dissapear for a few days till its forgotten


I DID ASK and you have seen his response


How did you escape this time?

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swiftyboy
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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:09 pm

tinned wrote:
OmmerEmCradley wrote:
swiftyboy wrote:Do you really think i would post a made up e-mail with Mr Whalley as the sender on a public site if it was made up? Im sure the club would do me for libel. Like i said to another poster, another idiot called Percie, why dont you ASK Mr Whalley yourself if the e-mail is genuine?
Yoy wont do that though will you you? Dont like being proved wrong do you? As you have been put in your place on a few occaisions before. You just dissapear for a few days till its forgotten


I DID ASK and you have seen his response


Of course Mr Whalley would never, ever stretch the truth ever so slightly to try and rubbish people he see's as enemies would he?

For instance, he would never use his column in the matchday programme to warn people off using this site would he? Would he? Oh yes he bloody would. Apparently the owner of this site is a person who lives in London and has absolutely nothing to do with Walsall FC.

Scared of free speech are you Mr Whalley? Was that why you tried to have this site closed down? Or was it because for years this site has knocked your sterile effort into a cocked hat for news & opinions?


Is that true Mate? If so its yet more proof that they are running scared

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:09 pm

Exile wrote:Any more personal abuse and people will get suspended.


Does that mean that you know when I'm abusing myself ?

Bet you can't see me if I go behind the curtain.




You can't, can you ? :oops:

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swiftyboy
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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:11 pm

gerryhatrick wrote:
Exile wrote:Any more personal abuse and people will get suspended.


Does that mean that you know when I'm abusing myself ?

Bet you can't see me if I go behind the curtain.




You can't, can you ? :oops:



:lol: :lol: Turn your web cam off next time! :D

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:11 pm

swiftyboy wrote:
tinned wrote:
OmmerEmCradley wrote:
swiftyboy wrote:Do you really think i would post a made up e-mail with Mr Whalley as the sender on a public site if it was made up? Im sure the club would do me for libel. Like i said to another poster, another idiot called Percie, why dont you ASK Mr Whalley yourself if the e-mail is genuine?
Yoy wont do that though will you you? Dont like being proved wrong do you? As you have been put in your place on a few occaisions before. You just dissapear for a few days till its forgotten


I DID ASK and you have seen his response


Of course Mr Whalley would never, ever stretch the truth ever so slightly to try and rubbish people he see's as enemies would he?

For instance, he would never use his column in the matchday programme to warn people off using this site would he? Would he? Oh yes he bloody would. Apparently the owner of this site is a person who lives in London and has absolutely nothing to do with Walsall FC.

Scared of free speech are you Mr Whalley? Was that why you tried to have this site closed down? Or was it because for years this site has knocked your sterile effort into a cocked hat for news & opinions?


Is that true Mate? If so its yet more proof that they are running scared


Was a few years ago mate, but yes it's true. Mind you, I'm sure OCD (sorry, OEC) will need written confirmation form KRW himself :roll:

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:11 pm

Bangor, you're probably better off planning AFC Walsall than wasting your time on letters.

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swiftyboy
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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:13 pm

tinned wrote:
swiftyboy wrote:
tinned wrote:
OmmerEmCradley wrote:
swiftyboy wrote:Do you really think i would post a made up e-mail with Mr Whalley as the sender on a public site if it was made up? Im sure the club would do me for libel. Like i said to another poster, another idiot called Percie, why dont you ASK Mr Whalley yourself if the e-mail is genuine?
Yoy wont do that though will you you? Dont like being proved wrong do you? As you have been put in your place on a few occaisions before. You just dissapear for a few days till its forgotten


I DID ASK and you have seen his response


Of course Mr Whalley would never, ever stretch the truth ever so slightly to try and rubbish people he see's as enemies would he?

For instance, he would never use his column in the matchday programme to warn people off using this site would he? Would he? Oh yes he bloody would. Apparently the owner of this site is a person who lives in London and has absolutely nothing to do with Walsall FC.

Scared of free speech are you Mr Whalley? Was that why you tried to have this site closed down? Or was it because for years this site has knocked your sterile effort into a cocked hat for news & opinions?


Is that true Mate? If so its yet more proof that they are running scared


Was a few years ago mate, but yes it's true. Mind you, I'm sure OCD (sorry, OEC) will need written confirmation form KRW himself :roll:


:lol: :lol:

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OmmerEmCradley
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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:20 pm

tinned wrote:
swiftyboy wrote:
tinned wrote:
OmmerEmCradley wrote:
swiftyboy wrote:Do you really think i would post a made up e-mail with Mr Whalley as the sender on a public site if it was made up? Im sure the club would do me for libel. Like i said to another poster, another idiot called Percie, why dont you ASK Mr Whalley yourself if the e-mail is genuine?
Yoy wont do that though will you you? Dont like being proved wrong do you? As you have been put in your place on a few occaisions before. You just dissapear for a few days till its forgotten


I DID ASK and you have seen his response


Of course Mr Whalley would never, ever stretch the truth ever so slightly to try and rubbish people he see's as enemies would he?

For instance, he would never use his column in the matchday programme to warn people off using this site would he? Would he? Oh yes he bloody would. Apparently the owner of this site is a person who lives in London and has absolutely nothing to do with Walsall FC.

Scared of free speech are you Mr Whalley? Was that why you tried to have this site closed down? Or was it because for years this site has knocked your sterile effort into a cocked hat for news & opinions?


Is that true Mate? If so its yet more proof that they are running scared


Was a few years ago mate, but yes it's true. Mind you, I'm sure OCD (sorry, OEC) will need written confirmation form KRW himself :roll:


No I don't Kermit.

But I would be intrigued to see all the facts that are allegedly out there for us all to make up our own minds, when there in fact seems to be more grey areas now than before when the people with the facts posted them for us all to see.

Just like the quote that the rent of £75K was agreed as it would be cheaper than a mortgage in 1994 that has been stated on this thread. Where is that actually said, as i can only see the quote from August 1988 at the EGM where the rent was agreed as £75K, which is nearly 6 YEARS BEFORE the freehold was purchased. So where was the quote which has been used repeatedly about being cheaper than the mortgage then please.

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:52 pm

The petty argument on this thread, despite the clear announcement at the head of this thread that this is for questions, not arguments, shows why the club consider UTS to be a fringe website. I asked a question which bothered me, despite not being anti-Bonser (if we must be in groups about this). Those that are anti-Bonser can't help but preach and enter into the argument with those who are clearly on the wind up. We've all read the argument to death over the off-season, and I willI repeat as I have said before...nothing will ever be done, because the argument is enjoyed more than the action. I actually feel sorry for those at the trust and those outside of it who want to pursue some form of constructive conversation with the club.

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:53 pm

swiftyboy wrote:Yoy wont do that though will you you? Dont like being proved wrong do you? As you have been put in your place on a few occaisions before. You just dissapear for a few days till its forgotten


Its gone very quiet since I asked a few questions that still have as yet to be answered......................................................... over to you

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:06 pm

Jorge14 wrote:The petty argument on this thread, despite the clear announcement at the head of this thread that this is for questions, not arguments, shows why the club consider UTS to be a fringe website. I asked a question which bothered me, despite not being anti-Bonser (if we must be in groups about this). Those that are anti-Bonser can't help but preach and enter into the argument with those who are clearly on the wind up. We've all read the argument to death over the off-season, and I willI repeat as I have said before...nothing will ever be done, because the argument is enjoyed more than the action. I actually feel sorry for those at the trust and those outside of it who want to pursue some form of constructive conversation with the club.


Not sure the trust are aftyer constructive conversation with the club though............................

Bangor Cymru Saddler wrote:So here is an open thread for the mobilisation and discussion of ways to protest against the saviour.

A lot of threads have had discussion of ideas, but think it's right we get everything in one topic.

So...who's first? I'll be making an appearance on the E&S website video forum again soon, I won't be letting it up - that's for sure.

There is a facebook group about this subject - please join - search for 'Bonser out' and it will come up in the groups section of the search. That can be useful as a soundbite - i.e 'X amount of people just on facebook want him out' (stands at 216 at the moment)

Can an online petition be organised? Can media outlets be idenitified to target to get the message across? Does anyone have any contacts?

The first home game is also an important instance for the show of disgust with the way things are going. ideas?


deanonev69 wrote:Bangor,

Glad to hear you are up for the fight-know you've put your name forward for the trust previously-we have board meeting on 13th if you want to come and present some ideas and we can look at united front

Dean


Don't get frustrated that this thread has gone off track, its the norm for this site, sadly you'll have to get used to it.

If you genuinely want an answer to a question then write to or email the club yourself as you will get a better response. If you leave it to this site then it will end up with a basic answer as the questions will probably be wrapped up with the normal hype and spin, and will be treated with disregard by the club

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:10 pm

OmmerEmCradley wrote:
Whitters wrote:Rather than do this impersonally by letter as Bangor has suggested....

A question for Mr W.
Does he and Mr B realise that if they spent a couple of hours over maybe a curry and a few beers with a small group which includes Pedagogue and Geordiesaddler (and a couple of others) then they may be able to clear up a number of issues which on communicating to fans via this board may result in a friendly relationship with the fans to everyones mutual benefit?
Then maybe there would be closure and we could all get on with life.


Good idea Whitters.

The facts need to be sourced first to ensure that any questions posed are correct and therefore deserving of an answer.


Whitters - I agree with you wholeheartedly. For right or wrong, for over 20 years now, there's been suspicion, disbelief, cynicism and misunderstanding from fans towards the people who run the club resulting from the circumstances of the move from Fellows Park to Bescot, the club's subsequent financial difficulties following the Denglen/Devonmanor era and the circumstances of JWB's takeover.

I fail to understand why an open and honest disclosure and discussion of the facts would not be in the interest of all parties who have the interests of our football club at heart and I despair at the failure to address this issue.
The corrosive atmosphere that exists between the club and a significant body of fans is amply demonstrated, and indeed reflected, by the vituperative and increasingly intolerant discussions that occur on this website on the subject. I'm afraid the subject isn't going to go away.

OEC - with regard to sourceing facts, isn't it the lack of objective facts which causes much of the dispute? As for your point that only questions based on "Correct" facts are "Deserving of an answer", I disagree. What we need is enlightenment. If the "Correct" facts were known surely there would be no dispute or need for discussion? As paying customers - and loyal supporters - we all deserve answers.

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:14 pm

OmmerEmCradley wrote:
Jorge14 wrote:The petty argument on this thread, despite the clear announcement at the head of this thread that this is for questions, not arguments, shows why the club consider UTS to be a fringe website. I asked a question which bothered me, despite not being anti-Bonser (if we must be in groups about this). Those that are anti-Bonser can't help but preach and enter into the argument with those who are clearly on the wind up. We've all read the argument to death over the off-season, and I willI repeat as I have said before...nothing will ever be done, because the argument is enjoyed more than the action. I actually feel sorry for those at the trust and those outside of it who want to pursue some form of constructive conversation with the club.


Not sure the trust are aftyer constructive conversation with the club though............................

Bangor Cymru Saddler wrote:So here is an open thread for the mobilisation and discussion of ways to protest against the saviour.

A lot of threads have had discussion of ideas, but think it's right we get everything in one topic.

So...who's first? I'll be making an appearance on the E&S website video forum again soon, I won't be letting it up - that's for sure.

There is a facebook group about this subject - please join - search for 'Bonser out' and it will come up in the groups section of the search. That can be useful as a soundbite - i.e 'X amount of people just on facebook want him out' (stands at 216 at the moment)

Can an online petition be organised? Can media outlets be idenitified to target to get the message across? Does anyone have any contacts?

The first home game is also an important instance for the show of disgust with the way things are going. ideas?


deanonev69 wrote:Bangor,

Glad to hear you are up for the fight-know you've put your name forward for the trust previously-we have board meeting on 13th if you want to come and present some ideas and we can look at united front

Dean


Don't get frustrated that this thread has gone off track, its the norm for this site, sadly you'll have to get used to it.

If you genuinely want an answer to a question then write to or email the club yourself as you will get a better response. If you leave it to this site then it will end up with a basic answer as the questions will probably be wrapped up with the normal hype and spin, and will be treated with disregard by the club


Of course - you had nowt to do with it going off topic picking petty arguments in a thread that was meant for nothing of the sort.

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OmmerEmCradley
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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:24 pm

Fray Bentos

My first post stated that a question that had been posed by Geordie had been based on a half truth, and that the whole truth would need to be known before the right question and therefore the answer that people are looking for would be available.

One of my later posts asks for clarity as to how one quote made in Aug 1988 is then attributed as a major fact surrounding matters in June(?) 1994.

Wheres the problem in that

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OmmerEmCradley
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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:36 pm

And I wouldn't call that a petty argument would you?

i could answer some of the questions that have been posed to save the club sometime.

"Thank you for the question regarding the cost of Bescot stadium compared to the similar ground at Scunthorpe. As i am sure that all of you who support the Saddlers home and away will testify, Glanford is not an identical copy of the Bescot stadium. The ground bearing capacity and the types of foundation used at each ground are very probably quite different. Any Civil Engineer will tell you that foundations required on a brown field site are far in excess of those required on a green field site. Also labour charges differ significantly from region to region. The contract for Bescot Stadium was awarded after an open competetive tendering process, and was done for the best interests of Walsall FC. We did not have the luxury of a viable greenfield site with robust transportation links so close to the town centre. The Banks's Stadium has served both Walsall FC and the people of the borough for 20 years. We must all invest in the next 20 years to see us go from strength to strength. Therefore we cannot answer your question as we do not have, nor do we wish to know, the detailed construction costs of another football ground in the North of the country. we are only interested in one football ground, and that is Walsall FC.

I cannot answer your question regarding how the rent was preferable to a mortgage, as you are asking me to comment on one fact that happened in august 1998 and another that happened in 1994. If you would like to reassess your facts as you believe you have them and then repose this question then we will do our best to answer it."

Hows that for starters?

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:24 am

OmmerEmCradley wrote:
i could answer some of the questions that have been posed to save the club sometime.

"The contract for Bescot Stadium was awarded after an open competetive tendering process"

Hows that for starters?


Sadly.........that's not true.

There was NO " competitive tender " list.

Neither was there an opportunity to put together any form of package.


One of the West Midlands largest ( and Walsall based ) building contractors offered to put together a "design and build " package.......................the shrift they got was very short.

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:16 am

OEM - place look at what I said at the start of the thread and ask questions and not provide petty arguments - do that on your time.

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:27 am

OmmerEmCradley wrote:The ground bearing capacity and the types of foundation used at each ground are very probably quite different.


I like your qualifying statement - "probably". The geology and soil of the Midlands are well-known, and any competent construction company would have factored this into their (erm) bid. Remember the Bescot site was a sewage works and water treatment facility, not a repository for the burial of asbestos.

OmmerEmCradley wrote:Any Civil Engineer will tell you that foundations required on a brown field site are far in excess of those required on a green field site


No they won't. A brownfield site and a greenfield site are identical in terms of foundation, unless you're building on an infill site or a rubbish tip (refer Stoke).

OmmerEmCradley wrote:Also labour charges differ significantly from region to region


Yes, it's well-known (source: anecdotal evidence, Harry Enfield's "loadsamoney") that people up North are cheaper to hire than further South. Considerably. :roll:

OmmerEmCradley wrote:The contract for Bescot Stadium was awarded after an open competetive tendering process, and was done for the best interests of Walsall FC


Says who? Any souce for this extravagant statement? See kevin's response above.

OmmerEmCradley wrote:We did not have the luxury of a viable greenfield site with robust transportation links so close to the town centre.


True, perhaps, but never really researched, and definitely irrelevant and diversionary speculation when contrasted with what really happened.

OmmerEmCradley wrote:The Banks's Stadium has served both Walsall FC and the people of the borough for 20 years.


I agree.

OmmerEmCradley wrote:We must all invest in the next 20 years to see us go from strength to strength.


I agree. I assume ALL means the owner too. If bonser really wants to walk away, pension intact, and let go, I'd buy the club at his cost price plus compound interest (logic: we've stood still for his tenure, at best), and I assure you I'd make a much better job of the future than Bonser has of the past.

OmmerEmCradley wrote:we do not have, nor do we wish to know, the detailed construction costs of another football ground in the North of the country. we are only interested in one football ground, and that is Walsall FC.


We're also only interested in one ground, but the comparison is inevitable and no concrete figures or facts have ever been provided that can dissipate the idle speculation that perhaps something may have been amiss during the construction of Bescot. Of course, if either owning company (club and ground) at the time had ever filed accounts, we might not be having this discussion.

OmmerEmCradley wrote:I cannot answer your question regarding how the rent was preferable to a mortgage, as you are asking me to comment on one fact that happened in august 1998 and another that happened in 1994. If you would like to reassess your facts as you believe you have them and then repose this question then we will do our best to answer it.


Ah, dissembling and leaping on the slightest discrepancy as an avoidance tactic. the last refuge of the desperate. The question is easily rephrased and the answer is exactly the same in terms of relevance.

As an aside, I note that the RAC nerve centre, an award-winning, architecturally-designed and significantly more complex building than a bit of concrete and steel with pillars, cost £7million 20 years ago. That was also a brownfield site.

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canadiansaddler
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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:21 am

Question for Roy

1. If Mr Bonsor is serious about selling the club is he prepared to accept a realistic value for the club excluding the land or does he still believe the club is worth several million pounds on its own, if so how did he arrive at this valuation as all valuation models based on the clubs accounts depict a very different picture.

2. Can you provide assurances that the club is not in any danger of seeking bankruptcy protection in the next twelve months.

3. There have been rumours that the clubs current financial state is far from rosy and that a significant portion of the recent transfer funds are to be used to pay the clubs outstanding loans to it directors. Please can you provide clarity around this point.

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swiftyboy
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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:35 am

Exile wrote:
OmmerEmCradley wrote:The ground bearing capacity and the types of foundation used at each ground are very probably quite different.


I like your qualifying statement - "probably". The geology and soil of the Midlands are well-known, and any competent construction company would have factored this into their (erm) bid. Remember the Bescot site was a sewage works and water treatment facility, not a repository for the burial of asbestos.

OmmerEmCradley wrote:Any Civil Engineer will tell you that foundations required on a brown field site are far in excess of those required on a green field site


No they won't. A brownfield site and a greenfield site are identical in terms of foundation, unless you're building on an infill site or a rubbish tip (refer Stoke).

OmmerEmCradley wrote:Also labour charges differ significantly from region to region


Yes, it's well-known (source: anecdotal evidence, Harry Enfield's "loadsamoney") that people up North are cheaper to hire than further South. Considerably. :roll:

OmmerEmCradley wrote:The contract for Bescot Stadium was awarded after an open competetive tendering process, and was done for the best interests of Walsall FC


Says who? Any souce for this extravagant statement? See kevin's response above.

OmmerEmCradley wrote:We did not have the luxury of a viable greenfield site with robust transportation links so close to the town centre.


True, perhaps, but never really researched, and definitely irrelevant and diversionary speculation when contrasted with what really happened.

OmmerEmCradley wrote:The Banks's Stadium has served both Walsall FC and the people of the borough for 20 years.


I agree.

OmmerEmCradley wrote:We must all invest in the next 20 years to see us go from strength to strength.


I agree. I assume ALL means the owner too. If bonser really wants to walk away, pension intact, and let go, I'd buy the club at his cost price plus compound interest (logic: we've stood still for his tenure, at best), and I assure you I'd make a much better job of the future than Bonser has of the past.

OmmerEmCradley wrote:we do not have, nor do we wish to know, the detailed construction costs of another football ground in the North of the country. we are only interested in one football ground, and that is Walsall FC.


We're also only interested in one ground, but the comparison is inevitable and no concrete figures or facts have ever been provided that can dissipate the idle speculation that perhaps something may have been amiss during the construction of Bescot. Of course, if either owning company (club and ground) at the time had ever filed accounts, we might not be having this discussion.

OmmerEmCradley wrote:I cannot answer your question regarding how the rent was preferable to a mortgage, as you are asking me to comment on one fact that happened in august 1998 and another that happened in 1994. If you would like to reassess your facts as you believe you have them and then repose this question then we will do our best to answer it.


Ah, dissembling and leaping on the slightest discrepancy as an avoidance tactic. the last refuge of the desperate. The question is easily rephrased and the answer is exactly the same in terms of relevance.

As an aside, I note that the RAC nerve centre, an award-winning, architecturally-designed and significantly more complex building than a bit of concrete and steel with pillars, cost £7million 20 years ago. That was also a brownfield site.


OEC, i think you have just been firmly put into place.

Also, what are the "answers" you are "still waiting for"? Or is this another one of your drug induced fabrications?

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Geordiesaddler
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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:17 am

Couple of other points in response to OEC.

The cost of land is a leading variable between similar construction projects in different areas. As the Bescot project didn't include purchase of the land we can discount this.

Also, are you intimating that the rent was less than £75k per annum in 1994? If this figure is incorrect can someone confirm what the rent was in 1994.

My understanding was that it was 75k.

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swiftyboy
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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:20 am

Geordiesaddler wrote:Couple of other points in response to OEC.

The cost of land is a leading variable between similar construction projects in different areas. As the Bescot project didn't include purchase of the land we can discount this.

Also, are you intimating that the rent was less than £75k per annum in 1994? If this figure is incorrect can someone confirm what the rent was in 1994.

My understanding was that it was 75k.


Geordie, he is just arguing for arguings sake
Last edited by Exile on Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: language and content. I meant it about suspensions.

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:05 am

I also have a question for Roy.

Its has been stated many times by the board & chairman that Walsall football club is up for sale, and has been for many years.
Basis this, can they explain why they have never once seen fit to announce in public or press what the asking price is ?
One would suggest, to sell anything you need a value / selling price, if the board are serious its an extreamly odd sales strategy.

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