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Questions to send to Roy and co

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Neuromantic
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Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:55 pm

This thread is not about debating the issue again...


But If those interested can just put the questions on this thread they wish to ask Roy - I will collate them all and send them to him. Primarily responses to Wayne Swifts email and other current issues.

Thanks

Darren

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Jorge14
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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:05 pm

I think it would be good to get an answer to the question of why the chairman of the board rarely attends AGMs, since they are scheduled well in advance of the date for the specific purpose that those who can answer the questions posed are both in the country and in attendance.

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:10 pm

Jorge14 wrote:I think it would be good to get an answer to the question of why the chairman of the board rarely attends AGMs, since they are scheduled well in advance of the date for the specific purpose that those who can answer the questions posed are both in the country and in attendance.


Oki Dokes. Good one - I am surprised with you! :mrgreen:

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:51 pm

Jorge14 wrote:I think it would be good to get an answer to the question of why the chairman of the board rarely attends AGMs, since they are scheduled well in advance of the date for the specific purpose that those who can answer the questions posed are both in the country and in attendance.


Yes it would be nice to get an answer to that question but we all know what the answer will be so it's not exactly a testing question is it?

"Although Mr Bonser endeavours to attend the AGM, he has other committments".

Wow, revealing stuff.

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:51 pm

In respect of the information volunteered to Wayne swift by RW, and by means of clarification of certain points.

1) Can RW please clarify in general terms a point made in response to question 5 about the purchase of the freehold of the Bescot site in 1994, namely "mortgage payments would have been much higher than the rent". Given that it is a matter of public record that the freehold was purchased by the current landlord for £200k (source UK Land registry), and also that UK base interest rates at the time of said purchase were 5.25%, (source http://www.houseweb.co.uk/house/market/irfig.html), and the rent payments were at the time £75k per annum (now £349k per annum). Upon what basis can the assertion that mortage payments would have been higher than rent payments be made?

2) Can Mr. Whalley clarify a point made in response to question 4 regarding the build cost of Bescot vesrus that of Glanford Park. Mr. Whalley asserts that the clean up costs of the site partly explained the higher cost of Bescot. However, a publication made by the club on January 12th 1991 details seperate cost for building the stadium (£4.1m) and cleaning up the site (£1.297M). Just to be clear on the difference in cost between the two stadia, Scunthorpe United's official website states Glanford park was built for £2.5m. If the club doccument of January 1991 is acurate, can Mr Whalley revisit the issue of the £1.6m difference in build costs and point to other reasons as to how this arose?

Whilst I appreciate that certain financial information may be of a sensitive nature, answers in general terms would be greatly appreciated, and I'm sure thay will be forthcoming given the commitment to give "straight and factual answers".

Yours Sincerely,

David Foulkes.

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:09 pm

Geordiesaddler wrote:In respect of the information volunteered to Wayne swift by RW, and by means of clarification of certain points.

1) Can RW please clarify in general terms a point made in response to question 5 about the purchase of the freehold of the Bescot site in 1994, namely "mortgage payments would have been much higher than the rent". Given that it is a matter of public record that the freehold was purchased by the current landlord for £200k (source UK Land registry), and also that UK base interest rates at the time of said purchase were 5.25%, (source http://www.houseweb.co.uk/house/market/irfig.html), and the rent payments were at the time £75k per annum (now £349k per annum). Upon what basis can the assertion that mortage payments would have been higher than rent payments be made?

2) Can Mr. Whalley clarify a point made in response to question 4 regarding the build cost of Bescot vesrus that of Glanford Park. Mr. Whalley asserts that the clean up costs of the site partly explained the higher cost of Bescot. However, a publication made by the club on January 12th 1991 details seperate cost for building the stadium (£4.1m) and cleaning up the site (£1.297M). Just to be clear on the difference in cost between the two stadia, Scunthorpe United's official website states Glanford park was built for £2.5m. If the club doccument of January 1991 is acurate, can Mr Whalley revisit the issue of the £1.6m difference in build costs and point to other reasons as to how this arose?
Whilst I appreciate that certain financial information may be of a sensitive nature, answers in general terms would be greatly appreciated, and I'm sure thay will be forthcoming given the commitment to give "straight and factual answers".

Yours Sincerely,

David Foulkes.


A civil engineer would easily explain a great part of the difference in cost. And I'm sure the remainder of difference in outlay would easily be explained, if you were to compare apples with apples. I havn't seen all the facts posted on here but i have seen a major assumption made on this site that needs to be clarified. Once clarified, and assuming we could then compare apples with apples then the question could be asked.

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:10 pm

What does Mr Whalley intend to do by way of compensation for the vociferous, vitriolic, condescending, and very defensive responses to my e-mail which has resulted in me being extremely upset, to the point where i have had to visit my doctor 3 times since reciept of the e-mail.

I am now house bound, and addicted to paracetemol, night and day nurse, and tickly cough medicine.

I do not expect anything will be offered by way of compensation, but i expect nothing short of a free season ticket for the coming season, some sailing lessons from Uncle Jeff, and a few goes on your sun bed Roy, thankyou very much :wink:

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:39 pm

OmmerEmCradley wrote:
Geordiesaddler wrote:In respect of the information volunteered to Wayne swift by RW, and by means of clarification of certain points.

1) Can RW please clarify in general terms a point made in response to question 5 about the purchase of the freehold of the Bescot site in 1994, namely "mortgage payments would have been much higher than the rent". Given that it is a matter of public record that the freehold was purchased by the current landlord for £200k (source UK Land registry), and also that UK base interest rates at the time of said purchase were 5.25%, (source http://www.houseweb.co.uk/house/market/irfig.html), and the rent payments were at the time £75k per annum (now £349k per annum). Upon what basis can the assertion that mortage payments would have been higher than rent payments be made?

2) Can Mr. Whalley clarify a point made in response to question 4 regarding the build cost of Bescot vesrus that of Glanford Park. Mr. Whalley asserts that the clean up costs of the site partly explained the higher cost of Bescot. However, a publication made by the club on January 12th 1991 details seperate cost for building the stadium (£4.1m) and cleaning up the site (£1.297M). Just to be clear on the difference in cost between the two stadia, Scunthorpe United's official website states Glanford park was built for £2.5m. If the club doccument of January 1991 is acurate, can Mr Whalley revisit the issue of the £1.6m difference in build costs and point to other reasons as to how this arose?
Whilst I appreciate that certain financial information may be of a sensitive nature, answers in general terms would be greatly appreciated, and I'm sure thay will be forthcoming given the commitment to give "straight and factual answers".

Yours Sincerely,

David Foulkes.


A civil engineer would easily explain a great part of the difference in cost. And I'm sure the remainder of difference in outlay would easily be explained, if you were to compare apples with apples. I havn't seen all the facts posted on here but i have seen a major assumption made on this site that needs to be clarified. Once clarified, and assuming we could then compare apples with apples then the question could be asked.


What major assumption would that be, and can you post a link to it?


What we have at the moment are the facts before us.

Glanford Park was very similar, although not identical to Bescot, and was built around the same time.

There was a £1.6m higher cost for Bescot.

Other comparable grounds built at roughly the same time were either cheaper or far superior to Bescot...eg Huish Park and McDiarmid Park.

I don't really see how the "comparing apples with apples" analogy applies given we are talking about the build cost and nothing else. If we want to talk about the clean up cost then that's another £1.3m paid, and then we can ask the questions 1) why did we pick a site that required such an expensive clean-up? and 2) Why was the cost of the clean-up met by the company that built the ground (into who's pot the entire proceeds from the sale of Fellows Park were put) rather than the landowner?

All very fair questions.

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:18 pm

Metfanwy

A few points

These questions have to be absolutely precise and must not allow ANY room for deviation from the question

At no point should anyone at the club be critisised, Im sure you know this already otherwise that is reason enough, as we have seen before for them to avoid the question

Send a copy to the local press too

Good work if this is done cunningly and intelligently

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:29 pm

You have assumed the build costs of the two similar grounds would be similar, yet you then admit that the two grounds are only "similar", so the build costs would therefore be "similar".

What do you mean by build costs? I know what you have assumed (I think) but i would be genuinely interested as to what you think build costs covers.

Have you considered the parts you cannot see? Ground level and below. I am not talking about the site decontamination, as that would have taken away contaminated soil and would have replaced it with clean spoil. The ground bearing capacity of the clean site would have been far below that of Glanford Road (assuming that they are on the same type of loam). Therefore I would be interested to hear your views on the different build costs of the two seperate groundworks phases of Bescot and GlanFord. Did they use the same type of foundation or were they (more probably) completely different. As I said go and ask a civil engineer to clarify this, his report would give you a largely different cost for these initial phases of the two builds.

can you also clarify (as i have yet to see any evidence of this from all the posts added) that the two builds had identical S109s, as this too would add costs to resolve.

Did the two grounds use the same suppliers of materiel. If so where were these suppliers/manufacturers based and did they charge the same amount to both clubs to deliver to site, or was one bill more expensive due to increased transportation costs. you never know, Scunthorpe may have paid significantly more meaning that the Bescot cost even more proportiately in actual build costs than Glanford.

Did both construction timetables run to phase or was one delayed due to unforeseen circumstances, thus adding additional cost. I havn't seen this fact confirmed either.

I could go on, but as you see from the four points above you cannot compare Bescot with Glanford until you have sight of all the facts and figures for both construction projects. Hence you can't yet compare apples with apples.





But my main question to those of you on here who want "action" is, "what is your endstate?"

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:30 pm

swiftyboy wrote:
I am now house bound, and addicted to paracetemol, night and day nurse, and tickly cough medicine.



I'm afraid you've got "Billy Bescot" syndrome.

A couple of weeks in Bournemouth ( or Rothrum or Luton ) should do the trick.

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:31 pm

Can Mr Whalley confirm that the email posted by Mr Swift on UTS is a verbatim copy of that sent in reply to Mr Swifts' various emails to the club?

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:11 pm

Also when replying to Mr Swift can he use the terminology about Fith Columnists correctly, as the term would imply that the fans of WFC would have somebody 'on the inside' to bring down the club down, which we clearly don't. Remind him that his understanding of history and where the term comes from is about as accurate as his understanding of the recent financial history of Walsall FC.

Question 2
Why is he such a knob?

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:19 pm

No I havn't assumed the build costs should be the same. I've assumed that any quotation for building cost would have been compared both with other quotes for the same site, and for other projects of similar type. As we are talking about 110% more expensive if you add the decontamination costs, the logical question is (and should have been at the time) is this a prudent use of the club's money, given that other clubs on other sites, have managed broadly the same construction for significantly less cost.

As for delays, the cost is normally born by the builder rather than the customer.

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:50 pm

So what about the civil engineering side of your argument.

Also what about the suppliers of materiels.

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:45 pm

OmmerEmCradley wrote:Can Mr Whalley confirm that the email posted by Mr Swift on UTS is a verbatim copy of that sent in reply to Mr Swifts' various emails to the club?


So basically, you are suggesting that i have edited either or both e-mails in some way?

I assure you, that i havent

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:51 pm

But you, nor I, can prove it one way or the other that the email is or isn't genuine.

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:33 pm

OmmerEmCradley wrote:So what about the civil engineering side of your argument.

Also what about the suppliers of materiels.


Its not my argument its yours.

Both issues should be dealt with in the quotation supplied by the construction company. Its their responsibility to source materials that make their quote competitive. For the civil engineering, see my earlier post.

The package of all these ingerdients that make up the cost should (and presumabley would) have been poured over by the directors of Walsall FC. that's why they visited Scunthorpe's ground, and despite Roy Whalley's incredible admission that he didn't know how much Glanford Park cost that is the basis upon which the board decided they wanted to proceed with Denglen/GMI/Severn Trent Property.

None of your scarlet herrings mean a thing OMC, I've worked in the construction industry for many years, and my brother worked on the demolition of Fellows Park, which is why I have knowledge of another of Whalley's spurious assertions. Unfortunately my brother is dead, so you will have to rely upon my slightly second hand account of the "spontaneous collapse of the cowshed". i can assure you, like much of Whalley's email, it isn't strictly a lie, but isn't a proper account of what actually happened either. PM me if you want to know what actually happened, because what is posted on this forum is not the view of the website or its owner (as you seem to believe) but that of individuals who choose to post. we all have different facts to bring to the table, many of which cruelly expose the guano some of the current board of Walsall FC choose to expouse.

I'm very surprised, and quite saddened at Roy Whalley's assertions. He should remember that his current well paid role was facilitated by the SWAG initiative, a fans movement whereby the likes of him and Barry Blower were entrusted by many other equally passionate and knowledgeable supporters. It wasn't his, it was ours. So when he is questioning the alleagence of supporters, maybe he should be equally questioning of his own competence, and in doing so show a degree of self-awareness and humility in respect of his own limitations compared to the role of the very supporters that actually preserved the Walsall FC that he is working for.

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:40 pm

OmmerEmCradley wrote:But you, nor I, can prove it one way or the other that the email is or isn't genuine.


Of course i frigging can! I copied and pasted it straight from my in-box!

What is it with you? You always have to question the legitimacy of peoples posts!

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:14 pm

Sadsfan wrote:Also when replying to Mr Swift can he use the terminology about Fith Columnists correctly, as the term would imply that the fans of WFC would have somebody 'on the inside' to bring down the club down, which we clearly don't.


We used to have a club employee as a regular poster. Can't quite recall what happened to him.... :?

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:21 pm

swiftyboy wrote:
OmmerEmCradley wrote:But you, nor I, can prove it one way or the other that the email is or isn't genuine.


Of course i frigging can! I copied and pasted it straight from my in-box!

What is it with you? You always have to question the legitimacy of peoples posts!


I cut and pasted this email from my inbox:

Dear Mr OEC

Thank you for your recent letter requesting clarification of some issues that you have read on the fansite UTS. I was very interested to hear that I had been quoted in one thread by Mr Dwayne Swift, who allegedly copied an email i sent to him in response to some of his earlier correspondence to the club. I perused the aforementioned site and read my alleged email with amusement. I can assure you that this email, nor any email remotely similar to that one shown was sent by any club employee or me.

I would be happy to meet to discuss the issues you raised in your letter and also to continue the chat we had last Saturday after the game. Please telephone me to arrange a suitable time for you to come to the Banks's Stadium. I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Regards

R Whalley

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:23 pm

Can Mr Whalley confirm that the email posted by the secretive and pseudonymous Mr. OEC on UTS is a verbatim copy of that sent in reply to his letter to the club?

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:30 pm

Dear Mr OEM ? :lol: :lol: :lol:

You really couldn't make it up.

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:36 pm

Geordiesaddler wrote:
OmmerEmCradley wrote:So what about the civil engineering side of your argument.

Also what about the suppliers of materiels.


Its not my argument its yours.

Both issues should be dealt with in the quotation supplied by the construction company. Its their responsibility to source materials that make their quote competitive. For the civil engineering, see my earlier post.

The package of all these ingerdients that make up the cost should (and presumabley would) have been poured over by the directors of Walsall FC. that's why they visited Scunthorpe's ground, and despite Roy Whalley's incredible admission that he didn't know how much Glanford Park cost that is the basis upon which the board decided they wanted to proceed with Denglen/GMI/Severn Trent Property.

None of your scarlet herrings mean a thing OMC, I've worked in the construction industry for many years, and my brother worked on the demolition of Fellows Park, which is why I have knowledge of another of Whalley's spurious assertions. Unfortunately my brother is dead, so you will have to rely upon my slightly second hand account of the "spontaneous collapse of the cowshed". i can assure you, like much of Whalley's email, it isn't strictly a lie, but isn't a proper account of what actually happened either. PM me if you want to know what actually happened, because what is posted on this forum is not the view of the website or its owner (as you seem to believe) but that of individuals who choose to post. we all have different facts to bring to the table, many of which cruelly expose the guano some of the current board of Walsall FC choose to expouse.

I'm very surprised, and quite saddened at Roy Whalley's assertions. He should remember that his current well paid role was facilitated by the SWAG initiative, a fans movement whereby the likes of him and Barry Blower were entrusted by many other equally passionate and knowledgeable supporters. It wasn't his, it was ours. So when he is questioning the alleagence of supporters, maybe he should be equally questioning of his own competence, and in doing so show a degree of self-awareness and humility in respect of his own limitations compared to the role of the very supporters that actually preserved the Walsall FC that he is working for.


How do you know that these costs weren't broken down by the construction companies in their tender process, of course they would have been. OPS post that shows the costs gave the total figure, as does wikipedia for Glanford just gives two figurs that have then been misquoted on this site to suit arguments both for and against Mr Bonser.

If you have knowledge of the building game like you state then you would know that an identical house built in seperate locations throughout the UK would cost a different amount to build, and would be marketted and sold for a different figure as well, sometimes twice as much in one location to that cgarged in another location. Yet you wont accept this as a factor in the different costs of the two stadia.

Isn't it interesting that it has been debated ad nausem on here for months, people have stated that all the facts are available but when it comes down to it they are NOT KNOWN.

Plus you still havn't stated your end state. So what is it, and is it realistically achievable.

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:34 pm

Geordiesaddler wrote:As for delays, the cost is normally born by the builder rather than the customer.


Not quite right Geordie.
It all depends on a) the form of contract and b) the reason for the delay.
Back then, the most common form in use, although obviously not necessarily in this case, was the JCT Form and for Design and Build Contracts it would have been the 1981 edition.
In that form the contractor takes the risk (and therefore the cost) of delays due to bad weather, ground conditions and faulty design. The Employer (and I have no idea who that would have been) is responsible for any changes he requires and a list of other matters.
It would be interesting to find out the detail which would enable a proper analysis to be made.

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:39 pm

Kneecap wrote:
Geordiesaddler wrote:As for delays, the cost is normally born by the builder rather than the customer.


Not quite right Geordie.
It all depends on a) the form of contract and b) the reason for the delay.
Back then, the most common form in use, although obviously not necessarily in this case, was the JCT Form and for Design and Build Contracts it would have been the 1981 edition.
In that form the contractor takes the risk (and therefore the cost) of delays due to bad weather, ground conditions and faulty design. The Employer (and I have no idea who that would have been) is responsible for any changes he requires and a list of other matters.
It would be interesting to find out the detail which would enable a proper analysis to be made.


Agreed

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:40 pm

secret saddler wrote:
swiftyboy wrote:What does Mr Whalley intend to do by way of compensation for the vociferous, vitriolic, condescending, and very defensive responses to my e-mail which has resulted in me being extremely upset, to the point where i have had to visit my doctor 3 times since reciept of the e-mail.

I am now house bound, and addicted to paracetemol, night and day nurse, and tickly cough medicine.

I do not expect anything will be offered by way of compensation, but i expect nothing short of a free season ticket for the coming season, some sailing lessons from Uncle Jeff, and a few goes on your sun bed Roy, thankyou very much :wink:

Another mindless post from Mr Self Important!


KNOB

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:44 pm

Rather than do this impersonally by letter as Bangor has suggested....

A question for Mr W.
Does he and Mr B realise that if they spent a couple of hours over maybe a curry and a few beers with a small group which includes Pedagogue and Geordiesaddler (and a couple of others) then they may be able to clear up a number of issues which on communicating to fans via this board may result in a friendly relationship with the fans to everyones mutual benefit?
Then maybe there would be closure and we could all get on with life.

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:45 pm

swiftyboy wrote:
secret saddler wrote:
swiftyboy wrote:What does Mr Whalley intend to do by way of compensation for the vociferous, vitriolic, condescending, and very defensive responses to my e-mail which has resulted in me being extremely upset, to the point where i have had to visit my doctor 3 times since reciept of the e-mail.

I am now house bound, and addicted to paracetemol, night and day nurse, and tickly cough medicine.

I do not expect anything will be offered by way of compensation, but i expect nothing short of a free season ticket for the coming season, some sailing lessons from Uncle Jeff, and a few goes on your sun bed Roy, thankyou very much :wink:

Another mindless post from Mr Self Important!


KNOB

Go and buy a personality


Make sure you spend more than 3p else you will end up with one like Swifty :lol:

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Re: Questions to send to Roy and co

Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:47 pm

Whitters wrote:Rather than do this impersonally by letter as Bangor has suggested....

A question for Mr W.
Does he and Mr B realise that if they spent a couple of hours over maybe a curry and a few beers with a small group which includes Pedagogue and Geordiesaddler (and a couple of others) then they may be able to clear up a number of issues which on communicating to fans via this board may result in a friendly relationship with the fans to everyones mutual benefit?
Then maybe there would be closure and we could all get on with life.


Good idea Whitters.

The facts need to be sourced first to ensure that any questions posed are correct and therefore deserving of an answer.

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