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Preston (h) - League - 19th October 2002

Reports and reaction from the 2002-03 season as Walsall finished 17th in Division 1
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Preston (h) - League - 19th October 2002

Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:22 pm

By belgian saddler ( on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 05:34 pm: Edit

suppose with jimmy off so early we`d have settled for a point but still feel gutted. sounds like we outplayed them and they were garbage most of the time according to the reports. juniors goal sounds like a corker

By Anon ( on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 05:57 pm: Edit

These red cards may well ruin our dream of mid-table obscurity... How many is it now?

By Bemused ( on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 06:08 pm: Edit

At 2-0 up how can Walker justify his actions?

By Kevthesadler ( on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 06:23 pm: Edit

I dont think Jimmycould do much about it to be honist, he had to go tho. Jorge was exceptional. Juniors goal was one of the best i've seen, it realy was amazing.

WALKER 7- didnt have anything to do except walk of the pitch

BAZELEY 7-Solid game but we were over exposed on the right second half

ZIGOR 7-First half he played well, couldnt get forward second half

ROPER 8-Again spuerb, i'm convinced he doesnt feel pain!

CARBON 7-Solid, good distribution

WRACK 7-Nothing special but workman like performance as usual, good shoot in first half

CORICA 8-Had a couple of great runs & worked really hard

SIMPSON 7-Solid as always

O'CONNER 9-Inspirational, I thought he was superb

JUNIOR 8-Amazing goal

JORGE 10-Could fault him, worked his socks off and scared the life out of Preston. Also took his goal well.

WARD 7-ok, couldnt do anything about the goals.

By SheffieldSaddler ( on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 07:04 pm: Edit

With ratings like that how come we didnt win!

By cat3 ( on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 07:39 pm: Edit

that's right, why didn't we win the match???

By Neil Ravenscroft ( on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 08:05 pm: Edit


I'd give Jorge 10 as well for the best exhibition of front running I've ever seen from a Walsall player. He was absolutely superb and should have got another penalty when brought down by Broomes in the 2nd half.
There's part of your answer. I couldn't believe it when the reporter on WM gave the ref 10! 2 or 3 would have been more like it. If he had punished some of the cynical fouls from Preston (like the one on Corica in the 2nd half), they would never have got back in it. He didn't give a yellow for a foul, they were all for us, for dissent and time wasting!

By popperpancake ( on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 08:11 pm: Edit

Unlucky not to win i felt. Jorge was exceptional....junior's goal magnificent. We deserved better i think.

By Phil_G ( on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 08:16 pm: Edit

I may still be a little too emotional to give an objective view, but why do we insist on spending the last 20 minutes on the edge of our own area?
For 70 minutes, with 11 and then 10 men, we dominated the game and looked really good going forward. Preston looked very average. At 2-0, when Jimmy went off, they had a brief good spell and got the goal, but we settled down and deservedly went in 2 up again.
After the break we took the game to them and you couldn't tell we had one less player, and I think we were unlucky not to score again, particularly when Corica side footed a tame shot at the keeper.
But for some reason, we suddenly decided to defend deeper, perhaps it was when Leitao went off and nearly every ball forward was going straight to a Preston defender.
Although we deserved to win the match, and I understand it is going to be harder when you lose a man, I feel we gave Preston too much respect, which led to our downfall.
If we had continued to attack, or at least defend higher up the pitch, I think we would have held out easily.
Jorge played out of his skin, and deserved his man of the match. Ropes was just behind him, both full backs played well. Junior's goal was superb, and was unlucky (although understandable) to get subbed when Jimmy went off.
I was a little dissapointed with Carbon, even though it was his first game back and Ward didn't fill me (or seemingly the defence) with confidence. I don't think he was to blame for the last two goals, but I think he'll be disappointed with the first.
Also disappointed with Zdrilic, again it was his first game back, and it was a hard act to follow in replacing Jorge, but he didn't seem to get into the game, chase the ball, or hold the ball up as well as Jorge was doing.

By Neil Ravenscroft ( on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 08:43 pm: Edit

I think you've answered your question yourself. The difference was Jorge going off. (I really meant what I said, that performance was out of this world), plus the rest starting to tire.

I'd have agreed about the first goal, but it was right in front of us and it wasn't a clean header. Healy tried to head for the opposite corner and it hit Ropes on the forhead and looped up in the other direction. Around me, we were even wondering if it should have been classed as an og. I think that's what wrongfooted Ward.

By the way, is it the Sjoke match Wacker misses? Does this mean Ward gets a chance to play against his old team?

By Neil Ravenscroft ( on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 08:45 pm: Edit

Another point, how much did Preston pay for that absolute donkey Broomes? Jorge gave him a real lesson.

By Geoff Whiting ( on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 08:47 pm: Edit

Absolutely agree about Zdrillic Phil_G, maybe he wasn't really fit enough. Jorge was brilliant, an absolute handful and kept Preston's defence fully occupied. Once he went off and Zdrillic replaced him their defence had no problems. I don't think Driller won a ball or put them under any pressure, so they were free to push up more and we made the mistake of conceding ground and allowing them to push us deeper. Mind you, with only 10 men I thought the lads were fantastic, they must have been tiring in the closing stages, and I guess it was then that Preston managed to make the extra man count.

Overall it was a real disappointment to have outplayed Preston so convincingly for most of the game and still ended up with only the one point, and apart from blaming it on being down to 10 men, I guess we have to put it down to a few missed chances, especially Corica's close in effort cleared off the line 1st half, and at least three great chances 2nd half before they pulled it back to 3-2.

By Phil_G ( on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 08:55 pm: Edit

Thing is, Preston looked OK when going forward, but their defence looked shocking when we pushed on, yet we seemed happy to sit back, trying to hold on to our lead.
How many times have we conceded late goals in those situations? You can almost feel it coming.
It's age old, I know, but attack being the best form of defence really seems to sum up todays game.
I think the thing that worries me about Ward is that he doesn't stop the ball when some one plays it back to him, he kicks it while it's moving, even when he doesn't have to. I'd like to see him try that on the ploughed field we played on a couple of seasons ago!

By Kevthesaddler ( on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 10:13 pm: Edit

I admit I some times rate to high but I really thnk these rates are justified. We drew because we had ten men & tired, I think we played really well tho. I think Brown made an excellent decision by bring on Anderson & go to three at he bk. Anderson caused us alot of problems on the left.

I always try to look at the positives tho & I think we deserved all three points. We showed passion & they worked as hard as they could (especially Jorge & O'Conner). After the first ten mins we passed the ball well and forced them bk with our strong attacks.

Craig Brown said Juniors goal was the goal of the season & I agree.

On a bad note, we've played really well the last three games but at the end of the day only got 2 points.

By Paul G ( on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 10:18 pm: Edit

Apart from the Boli overhead against Bournemouth I have never seen a better goal at Bescot than Juniors today. If not for the sending off we would surely have won that game easily. For the second game running a long ball through the middle has split our defence and given an opposition striker a one on one chance. If Jimmy had not smothered the ball outside the area he would have been lobbed again. Is he coming off his line too quickly?

The ref got the key decisions correct but was totally inconsistent with the issuing of yellow cards. I would like to see the tackle on Jorge in the second half on TV again. The defender certainly came from the behind. What a performance from Jorge in the second half. In hindsight perhaps we should have left him on for ten more minutes even though he was knackered.

We were by far the best side today but have not won the game. It hurts. But if we keep this level of performance up we will remain clear of trouble and just maybe this could be a good cup season for us. Does Jimmy miss Blackburn now?

By Ziggy fan ( on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 11:46 pm: Edit

Crowd chanting Zigor's name - whatever next?
Fab picture of him in programme, glad I bought it.

By MatthewMarkLukeJohn ( on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 01:07 am: Edit

Me Too Ziggy Fan.

I have cut it out and stuck it in my Bible. From the Descriptions Zig and JChrist look the same.

My Sunday School tutor will be pleased with me tomorow.

By cannock ( on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 01:10 am: Edit

The reason why we lost this damn game is because of our decision to defend our 18 yard line for the last 20 minutes as we do every match that we are winning with or without 10 men. Trying to defend for this length of time will ultimately result in the attacking team getting a goal one way or another. I agree with Phil that attack is the best form of defence. For the majority of the match we were in cruise control until we defended deeper and deeper.

Gavin Ward does not fill me with confidence at all. For a keeper of his size he just does not command his area, doesnt seem focused, seems very lethargic and just not with it. I put the blame for the first goal at both Wards and Carbons door. Carbon had a poor match, being pulled everywhere by Creswell. We certainly missed Danny Hay today. Jorge was fantastic on his own upfront but Junior overall was disappointing until he produced his moment of magic.

Absolutely choked

By Mr Corrector ( on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 10:36 am: Edit

Boli goal was against Southend

By Mike T. ( on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 12:07 pm: Edit

Just to correct Cannock - we didn't lose the damn game it just felt like it at 5.00pm. However I still feel it was a point gained rather than 2 lost. I believed we would lose the game when Jimmy was sent off as whilst Preston were poor at the back the movement and pace of Healy and Cresswell, who always seems to play well against us, were already causing us problems with 11 men.
Like everbody else I thought Ropes and Jorge were absolutely awesome. I hope Jorge now believes himself that he is a first division striker because that was a magnificent display which had everything including defending from the front.
I felt the 10 men gave everthing for the manager and the club and it was only in the last 10/15 mins that Preston took over when tiredness set in. It would have been a choker if Cresswell's last minute header had been on target. I also felt sitting in the family stand the players deserved better than have the crowd from there leave in droves when the equaliser went in. The 10 men needed our support to the end - at least the much maligned H.Fellows stand gave them an ovation at the end.
Finally Boli's goal was against Southend and I did feel Junior's was just as good and didn't he set up Jorge's goal as well?

By Dutch ( on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 12:27 pm: Edit

Just seen the highlights and Sky and Gavin Ward looked liked he was fouled for the third goal.

By Ken ( on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 12:49 pm: Edit

What game was it last season when the ref Joslin was in charge?

He was poor then aswell.

By Kevthesaddler ( on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 01:25 pm: Edit

It was Junior that assisted Jorges goal.

Since I've had time to reflect on yesturdays match. I'm feeling quite encouraged. Here we are in the first division, playing some great attacking & entertaining football & were dissapointed not to win Against Derby, Burnley & Preston. Teams who have spent money eg. Preston 1.5 million on Healy. We could have easily got 9 points from these three games.

For me, we are living my dream at the mo. great new stand, financially sound & in my opinion a resonable first division side in no danger of getting relagated. It makes me smilejust thinkin bout it

By Phil_G ( on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 02:40 pm: Edit

Mike T.
I think you confirmed what I was trying to say, in that Preston looked poor at the back, but good up front. So surely we should be attacking their weakness, not sitting back and playing to their strength?
I accept playing with one less man must be more difficult, but I think we allowed them back into the game, when we could have killed them off.
I think overall we played some great football at times and have not got what we deserved from the last three matches, I just hope we don't go on to rue these dropped points.

By Jorge14 ( on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 03:19 pm: Edit

We really deserved to win.

I think that sums up what everyone thinks who supports the Saddlers who saw the game yesterday. Jorge Leitao was absolutely outstanding, indeed I haven't seen a performance so good from a Premiership player, that type of spirit is what England need in their team.

We could have been 4 up at HT and Walker certainly can't be blamed for the defeat at all. At 2-0 up we could have gone on to realisticly get 6 or 7 because Preston were terrible in that first half hour. Junior played really well but he was the only player we could afford to take off, I really think that if Junior and Jorge play like that together we will have a partnership that can take us well into the top half of the table.

Walker - 6 - Didn't really do anything. Sending off was correct, I don't know why the fans booed.

Bazeley - 8 - Never stops running, always up and down the touchline. Was exposed a little in the second half but wasn't at fault for the goals.

Arandalde - 7 - Very good performance by Zig. Looked solid coming forward and did quite well at the back. Possibly sat back too much for the cross for the second goal, but not to blame. He was lucky with the penalty, but with that run-up, how could he miss?

Roper - 8 - Our most consistent player. Never holds back and never gives up. Possibly could have done better for PNEs first but other than that faultless.

Carbon - 5 - The weak link in the side I felt. Didn't look composed on the ball and no communication from him to Ward and Roper.

Wrack - 9 - His best performance of the season. Ran and worked hard to support Jorge and looked lively himself to score. Unlucky in the first half when his cross/shot went wide.

O'Connor - 8 - Very inspirational and good in the tackle. Passing was a ever terrific, commanded the midfield.

Simpson - 7 - Quiet game but very tidy on the ball and didn't loose a tackle.

Corica - 8 - Corica's most lively performance of the season so far, looked like the Stevie we had last season. One run through the middle resulted in a free-kick and a run in from the left would have been a second penalty had he gone down. Unlucky not to score in the first half when he blasted straight at the keeper from point blank range.

Junior - 8 - Set up Leitao's goal and THAT goal which was on par with Boli against Southend. Looked very lively but was the only player that Lee could have taken off. JESUS LOVES YOU!

Leitao - 10 - MOM - His best display for the Saddlers. Ran and ran and never gave up, slotted home his goal superbly and gave the defenders a game that they will never forget.


Ward - 7 - Did well, it looked like we had Seaman in goals after a nervy first 5 mins but played well afterwards. Looked to have been fouled for the 3rd goal.

Zdrillic - 5 - Certainly not match fit. Gave the defenders some rest after Leitao had run them ragged.

Sonner - Came on to unsuccesfully waste time as it would turn out.

With those ratings we should have destroyed them but a point will have to do. Nothing more could have been asked from any of the lads apart from Carbon. He's took this club for a joke ever since he joined, it's about time he sorted himself out.

By 4two Swift ( on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 05:31 pm: Edit

Am i the only one that could see that Aranalde could have prevented the 2 second half goals by not backing off and trying to block the ball in to the box.

He gave their players space to whip two ball in, that resulted in two goals.

As for the first goal, the attack did come down the left wing, but was Zigore in the vicinity ?

By Sharky61 ( on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 06:42 pm: Edit

I wondered how long it would be before someone came on to blame Ziggy for something. Yesterday was probably the best game he's had for us and still people pick faults. Down to ten men, players knackered, holes opening up all over the place and that's Ziggy's fault. No pleasing some folk. He prevented a certain scoring opportunity for them with a low header with everyone else stood still and their bloke running through. Give the man a break. Don't see many postings saying Walker might have been at fault but who knows how we would have fared with a full team.

By popperpancake ( on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 06:54 pm: Edit

Yeah i wondered how long that would take too. Leave it out.

By ian hemmings ( on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 07:59 pm: Edit

hes done it on thesaddlersfc sight! this bloke dont like him! he defends other players but not ziggy!!! its a team game! get behind the lads not attack them!

By Geoff Whiting ( on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 09:41 pm: Edit

Agreed Ian, some people seem to expect Zigor to join the attack and still be there to defend at the same time - I don't see how he can.

I have to admit I've been a big critic in the past, in fact until quite recently, but lately his performances have been as committed as anyone, and there's a whole team in there who have a responsibility to cover for one another like, for example, when Ziggy goes on a left wing run.

OK, we all know he's not the best left sided defender around, but we sure can't afford another one to replace him even if we wanted to, so why don't we all just get behind him, anything else from a Saddlers fan is totally counter-productive.

By cannock ( on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 10:27 pm: Edit

Crosses come in from the left flank, they come in from the right flank and they even appear from a diagonal hoof downfield. However, whenever one of these is converted from somewhere approaching the left flank it is hang Aranade time. We dont do the same to Bazeley whenever a goal comes from his flank. We need to look for the real root cause.

For the last 20 minutes of a match we are winning we always defend deeper and deeper. Jorge is obviously under instructions to get back and defend at these times and as a result whenever we clear the ball it is always to an opposing defender as we have no strikers forward to get the ball and hold it up. This piles more and more pressure on the defence until it eventually concedes. I assume that this is Aranalde's fault as well!! Leave off

By 4two Swift ( on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 10:47 pm: Edit

What i Said Was.....

"Am i the only one that could see that Aranalde could have prevented the 2 second half goals by not backing off and trying to block the ball in to the box. He gave their players space to whip two ball in, that resulted in two goals. As for the first goal, the attack did come down the left wing, but was Zigore in the vicinity"

Did i say he had a bad game ? No, because he didnt.

I didnt relise till it was his defending during the game, or where the crosses came from, i didnt relise this until i watched the highlights, and thought, who is that backing off their, and then BANG GOAL, If it was Bazely id have said the same.

I dont get on his back in a game either, Just pointing out a trend.

By Kevthesaddler ( on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 11:25 pm: Edit

Jorge 14, looking back on things I think your ratings are more accurate than mine, well where Carbon is concered. I rate Hay as high as ANY central defender in the division but also think Carbon is excellent too. He did not have his best game & prob hasn't all season but thinking bout it he isn't a bad sub to have.

Thinkin back at all Jorge 14's posts, I think he talks alot of sence & there by I announcemyself as Jorge 14's biggest fan

Long live Joge 14!!!!!!!!!!!!

By popperpancake ( on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 01:38 am: Edit

I ve said this b4 but i gotta say it again....the amount of goals we have conceded this season from our left hand side is not dissimilar to the amount conceded from the right. I'm not gonna go back thru the games looking at this and point it out cos i have already pointed out goals supplied from our right hand side when i've defended aranalde in the past. Their equalising goal on saturday came originally from aranalde's side but whoever was on the far post....wrack i think...should have headed it behind for a corner...it then came back in from our right hand side. The fact is that a high percentage of goals come from crosses of some decription. I think Bazeley has been a fine signing for us.....but i also think than aranalde is not anywhere near as bad as some people make out. While i am on the subject i cant remember who but someone said wolves and ipswich both homed in on aranalde as a weak point and attacked our left hand side. Is this the case or is it more the fact that both wolves and ipswich were playing without a left winger, whilst both had players either playing as a right winger or drifting predominantly out to the right hand side. (Jason Bent and Newton). Whatever u think of aranalde it's just time to forget about it and accept he's there to stay at least for the short term. Overall im pretty satisfied with the way we are playing...but agree with CL's comment that we haven't really go the points we perhaps deserved.

By Exile ( on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 01:45 am: Edit

Is it just me, or is CL much less popular as a manager than Sir Ray was?

I only suggest this from a general point of view, rather than as a Saddlers fan, as I can't recall any managerial vacancy with which he has been associated, by rumour or otherwise, since he joined, whereas Sir Ray was mentioned in despatches everytime any one else got the sack from their club..

Cheers all

By RushallSaddler ( on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 09:05 am: Edit

Not recently he hasn't, he's not doing so well at Bristol Rovers yet.

By Silverdale_Saddler ( on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 10:13 am: Edit

He had one of a mess to clear up though.

They were the "worst team in England" when he took over. They finished second bottom last season, so he started the season with technically the worst team.

he has bought in a bomb load of new players.

Next season will be their Year

By RushallSaddler ( on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 10:45 am: Edit

But will he get the time, they're an impatient lot down there especially with the other half of Bristol doing so well and there have already been rumblings, I think he at least needs to make the playoffs this season

By Stu ( on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 12:55 pm: Edit

Zigor has never really covninced me to be honest, not at 1st division level. But, even I'll say I thought he had a very good game on Saturday.

I think the whole team gave it their all. I'm very surprised at everyone slating Carbon, he had a tough match against a £1m striker in Richard Cresswell, and it says something that Cresswell had just two efforts on target in the entire match. I did wonder why Walker was so eager in racing out of his box, as Cresswell was under pressure from behind. But it was one of those split second decisions.

My one dis-agreement is that we deserved to win. I personally think a draw was a fair result. Yes, we may have been the better side for the first 30 minutes, but the 2nd half saw them camped in our half apart from a few foray's out. We were content to string 6 or 7 men across the pitch, and if your prepared to do that then your taking a chance. As we found out.

Jorge was sensational, best gave he has ever played. No need to comment on him.

I think you could always sense that if they scored one, they'd go on to get the point. Purely because we gave them so much possession. It was annoying that when we attacked and broke quickly, we caused them problems. But we seemed to resort to long balls forward with 15 minutes to go.

But, overall, we've once again proved ourselves more than a match against a recognised 1st division outfit. That shows the progress being made by us, if we can maintain this level of consistency then I can see us making a push for the top half sooner rather then later.

By Manc Saddler ( on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 01:49 pm: Edit

Forget Aranalde, what about Wacker's responsibility for dropping the 3 points. Two weeks running now he has rushed out at an oncoming forward when there has been every chance the defender could still intervene. There can be no argument he handled the ball or about the consequent red card. Whilst it was an oustanding performance from the ten men, unfortunately it was ten minutes too many .

By Neil Ravenscroft ( on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 02:48 pm: Edit

I've always said it's his one real weakness. Remember Watford last season?

By RushallSaddler ( on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 03:25 pm: Edit

We were coasting at the time of his sending off, we looked as though we would score every time we attacked, Jorge - what can I say, I hope there weren't too many premiership scouts watching, his best ever performance I thought, there were times he was taking on and beating 3 or 4 Preston defenders.

I was looking at a 4 or 5 nil scoreline, bad mistake from jimmy, but I wasn't too impressed with his replacement Ward, never have been - remember Stoke in the playoffs. We lost out to Reading on the best keeper, I think he quite possibly could have edged out wacker

By Stu ( on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 04:23 pm: Edit

In defence of Whacker, its a different situation when you play in goal. You have a split second decision.

I play in goal for my work team (incidentally we're top of Div 1 in the Welwyn Hatfied District league, http://www.whsfl.co.uk, cheeky plug there. :-)) and you either have to come or stay.

If you come out, you invite the lob. But your thinking is that you'll rush them into messing it up. If you stay, you give them even more time to pick their spot and you rarely have a chance of saving it. Thus, you have a split second decision to make and 9 times out of 10, it'll be to come out. Thats what your taught, come out, spread yourself, narrow the angle and put them off.

I do think he is too eager on crosses sometimes, but in 1 on 1 situations, or balls over the top, you have a split second in which to make that decision. Saturday was the prime example, he did enough to force Cresswell into an early shot, unfortunately, it hit Whacka's arm on the way.

Co-incidentally, I also got sent off yesterday for a professional foul. I made that split second decision, came out and 'apparently' stopped a goal scoring chance although I disagreed with that at the time.

Its difficult decision to make, and I think its harsh to question his decision making. As for Ward, it was apparent that he doesn't command his area as well as Walker, but we have to accept that we've had the luxury of a top quality keeper for a long time now.

By lee54 ( on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 05:46 pm: Edit

leitao should get a full cap he was outstanding
***give me leitao forget figo***
come on u saddlers

By Ziggy fan ( on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 05:52 pm: Edit

4two Swift, Yes it appears you are the only one.

By Shifnalsaddler ( on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 06:34 pm: Edit

No he ain't.
Popperpancake it was me that pointed out how Wolves and Ipswich picked him out as a weakness, Reading did it too quite noticably, they had a tactic for pulling him out of position and then dropping the ball towards the corner which meant Roper or Hay had to come across........and we were all at sea.
As for Burnley, every time Paul Cook got the ball, he didn't even look to his left, he just pinged it out to his right wing.
I just think defensively he's weak, although he wins a lot of the ball in the air, and he has a great attitude. But are those two positives enough to make up for his negatives?
How many goals have we conceded from that flank in the games that Wrack has played in front of him? Fewer than when he hasn't, I'll wager.

By popperpancale ( on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 07:52 pm: Edit

Who played on the left hand side of midfield for burnley? Did Cook do that that cos little (one of their best players) plays on the right wing? Ur point about wrack could be reversed for bazeley on the other side. Reading tried to sign aranalde in the summer...they are now picking him out as a weak point? They played with forster on the right wing..a very tricky, fast player ... their tactics were to get him into the game, not exploit aranalde.

By Neil Ravenscroft ( on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 10:21 pm: Edit

Just seen the goals download from Sky's coverage and it left me in no doubt that the main cause of us dropping two points on Saturday was the man in black.

Lee was quite right, it was a blatant two handed push by Cresswell on Roper when the ball was crossed originally and the same player, while lying on the ground (possibly in an off side position), then impeded Ward as he tried to get back across.

By Rico ( on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 01:13 pm: Edit


Yes Jimmy had to make a split second decision but it was the WRONG one.If the score was 0-0 or 1-0, ok I MIGHT give him the benifit of the doubt but at 2-0 and CRUISING, it was a stupid rush of blood that cost us all three points.

Surely a pro goalkeeper, at 2-0 up, must be talking to himself about "what should I do if this or that crops up" because if he had stood up he may or may-not of saved it.Even if he did'nt save it we would still been in front and had eleven players on the pitch and in my opinion would have still won the game quite easily.

By Stu ( on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 02:44 pm: Edit

Disagree, you miss the point about split second decisions, you don't have time to think and take the circumstances into consideration. And you certainly dont stand there thinking "If this happens, I'll do this..." because your watching the game. I bet you Jorge doesn't stand up front thinking, "if a ball comes to me at this height from that angle I'll do this".

He did his job, if he hadn't come out, people would have said "if he'd been quicker off his line he might have prevented the shot". As it was, it was a fluke, the ball could have hit him anywhere, unfortunately it his his hand. If it had hit his body, you'd all be seeing what a great save it was, as if they'd pulled it back to 2-1 they might have got their backsides in gear etc etc etc

By Tim Wilkes ( on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 02:57 pm: Edit

Stu, I would have hoped that years of playing and training would mean that Jimmy [or Jorge in the situation you mention]would react to the situation in front of them like an experienced professional footballer. His footballers instinct should tell him what to do - in this case, Jimmy got it wrong.
It is difficult to blame him cos he very nearly pulled it off bu,t at the end of the day, in this instance, he cost us the points.

By SheffieldSaddler ( on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 03:18 pm: Edit

What a statement "in this instance, he cost us the points". Shall we start adding up the points Jimmy as won us rather than lost us? I reckon it would definately be a massive positive towards winning dont you?
Typical recent example 2-0 down at Derby, outstanding save to stop it being 3-0, we draw 2-2. Do I need to continue?

By SheffieldSaddler ( on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 03:22 pm: Edit

I also find it amazing that people honestly think that goalkeepers can make a split second decision and take into consideration the current state of the game! How on earth can you do that?
Its like saying if I am driving 70mph down a motorway what would I do if a car pulled out in front of me?
Answer - You dont think, you just bl**dy react for gods sake.

By Stu ( on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 03:30 pm: Edit

Tim, you've answered your own question.

"years of playing and training would mean that Jimmy [or Jorge in the situation you mention]would react to the situation in front of them like an experienced professional footballer. His footballers instinct should tell him what to do"

Exactly, it his instinct that tells him what to do. That instinct is the split second decision, do I stay or do I go? In that case, his instinct told him to go. But it was wrong. Football isn't like a programme, where the same process always works. In 99% of jobs, there is a process, if you follow that process then the outcome should always be correct. Football isn't like that. Repeating the same process could see a variety of outcomes.

As Sheff says, do you know what you'll do if a car cuts you up on the motorway? No, you make the decision then and there because it depends on the circumstances.

So much for me not posting much lately, I just think Whacka is coming in for some harsh treatment. And as a keeper I will defend him, just as I've been questioned his decisions in the past.

By Tim Wilkes ( on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 04:16 pm: Edit

I was gonna say "and yes I think he's a good goalie and yes I know he's saved us many times in the past [and that is his job, is it not?]" but I'd rather hoped you'd realised that I was refering to Saturday v Preston, not every bloody game we've ever played with him in goal!
Bizare car examples -
I'd have thought an experienced, professional driver would react better than a learner. The point I obviously failed to get across [my apologies] was that I'd expect Jimmy's goalkeepng insticts to be honed by years of experience and training. His job is to do the basics well [he does] and to get most of the split second decisions right - again, he does.

If I was being churlish, I'd say he should have saved Christies 2nd at Derby...oops, I have!

By popperpancake ( on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 04:22 pm: Edit

Walker is a fine goalkeeper. He may occasionally make a misjudgement but show me someone who doesn't (excluding the pancake clan). As sheff says, he will certainly win more points for our team than he will lose. Just a little dig at sheff tho....that save he made at derby to stop the score going to 3-0 should have been to stop it going to 2-0 but jimmy had already made a mistake to allow christies second in! If he'd saved that as well it would have allowed my hero ZIGOR ARANALDE to convert the winning penalty! My tongue is in my cheek by the way.

By popperpancake ( on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 04:23 pm: Edit

Tim beat me to it.

By cannock ( on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 09:03 pm: Edit

I just cannot understand some of you lot slating Jimmy for getting sent off. He made a split second decision and got caught out. Big deal. You claim he cost us the points. Balls. It is the ability of the team to cope with different circumstances that decides where the points go. I think that throwing away a 2 goal advantage is utterly diabolical. Even with ten men we should still be able to play controlled football rather than just sitting back and waiting for the inevitable to happen. For the first 20 minutes of the second half we still outplayed Preston and then Lo! we sit back. We do this on a regular basis with 10 men or 11. We have to learn to adapt and to play football with ten men as the way we are going the majority of our matches are going to be played out this way going along current form

By Kevthesaddler ( on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 10:38 pm: Edit

I dont agrre with people having a go at jimmy & personally I dont think he cost us the points. I just wonder wot people eg sheffield saddler would have siad if Zigor or Wrack would have been sent off for making a "split second decision".

By Paul G ( on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 10:40 pm: Edit

I too would say Jimmy should take a fair chunk of the blame for Saturday. If he had held his line he may have saved whatever effort Cresswell could come up with anyway. It was just a bad judgement. Whether he made it in a split second or spent 30 minutes worrying about the possibility of it happening it was just a bad judgement.

This does not mean he is a bad keeper and is not slating him. It is expressing an opinion. I also hold Jimmy responsible for the Christie (2nd) goal at Derby, the Cureton goal at Cardiff, the 90th minute Norwich equaliser a few yrs ago and probably about a dozen other mistakes over the years.

This does not make him a bad keeper. In fact I hope he plays another 500 games for us. But he is only human and will make a mistake occaisonally.

By JPD ( on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 04:06 am: Edit

In Monday's Villa vs Southampton game there was almost an identical situation where I think it was Enklemann who came out like Jimmy.
So they must be coached to do it in these circumstances.
My immediate thought was - "he must have the same goalie coach as Jimmy".
In this case he wasn't sent off and in fact nothing happened - no free kick or anything.
I was a bit surprised to see Jimmy go as it wasn't 100% clear to me that he had actually handled. Obviously you put your hands up to protect yourself - did the ref take this into account - I didn't think so.
It was a refs mistake for me as he must be absolutely absolutely sure before making a big decision like that.

By Stu ( on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 10:23 am: Edit

It can never be a Ref's mistake in that case.

Simple rule is, if he gives the free kick he MUST send Walker off. Walker admitted that himself in the press.

"Protecting yourself" is just a lame excuse, considering he is diving at the feet or an oncoming 6ft striker!

It was also the linesman that actually gave the free kick, and the ref had no choice but to send him off. Otherwise the Ref would have been in hot water with the FA.
Also, the other tell tale sign is the players reaction. Jimmy didn't complain, he didn't protest. He is always ready to open his mouth when a ref doesn't give a foul against him or something. But, in this case, he knew what he'd done and didn't bother to argue his case. Thats always the easiest way to tell, a players reaction.

By Geoff Whiting ( on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 10:30 am: Edit

As I've posted on here before JPD, the problem is with the rules. Jimmy was sent off because Refs have to do that in these circumstances. What doesn't seem to be allowed is any discretion on the Refs part to interpret the situation.

Go back to Saddlers vs Barnsley a couple of years ago, Wakker came probably 5 yards or more out of his area to challenge a forward running in, the forward attempted to lob Wakker, up went his hands above his head, hand ball. Jimmy had enough time to weigh up the situation, he knew he was way out of the box, but he still opted to go for it with his hands. Red card offence, no doubt.

Saturday was totally different. Jimmy raced from his line to shut down the angle and hopefully block the shot. He had no way of knowing when the forward would hit the shot, if it had happened a split second earlier the ball would have hit him inside the box instead of outside and that would have been no foul. But by the time the ball did hit him, he had slid only 2 feet or so outside the box, what's that represent in tenths of a second ? The ball came in to Jimmy's chest or upper arm judging by the video, then rebounded onto his hand, so how's that deliberate hand ball ? I defy any goalie to be able to judge that situation to within a couple of feet or so, or to keep his hands completely out of the way of the ball.

There's a world of difference between these two goal-keeping situations - the first is a clearly deliberate act of handling the ball outside the box to prevent a goalscoring opportunity. The second is just a split second difference between a legal save in the box and an apparently illegal block outside the box.

All I can conclude is that if the Ref was right according to the rules, then the rules are crazy and need looking at by the powers-that-be !

By flownswift ( on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 12:08 pm: Edit

if the situation was the other way around, and it was us through on goal and preston who handled the ball outside the area, we would all, everyone of us be screaming blue murder had the keeper not been sent off. It was blatent and a just decision. It matters not what walker ment to do. Regardless of interpretation that was a sending off and was rightly judged. Had he not touched the ball and brought the fella down it would also have been a sending off. One of those things, had he been just inside it would've been a great save as it was it was a foul and a red card.

By Geoff Whiting ( on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 12:30 pm: Edit

Then our opinions differ flownswift, it's as simple as that.

A foul is a deliberate or reckless act contrary to the rules of the game. An accident, be it handball, an obstruction or a fractionally mis-timed challenge, is not necessarily a foul and should be open to interpretation by the Ref.

Jimmy did not deliberately handle outside the box, but it could be argued he may have done so recklessly. That's where the Ref's judgement should come into it i.e. could Jimmy have reasonably been expected to judge in that incident whether his actions would lead him to handle the ball outside the area ? I'd argue it happened so fast and the margin of error was so small that he'd thought he had a good chance of making a fair challenge, but didn't quite make it.

I'll say again, if that's a red card offence now under the rules, then the red card was correct. But the rules need looking at so that distinctions can be made by the Ref at the time.

As for the "everyone of us would be screaming .... etc" well sorry flownswift, I for one would not. I think too many red cards ruin games, and they should be reserved for the worst offences or for repeated foul play, not for split second hairsbreadth incidents like Saturday. I'd have said just the same even if it had been the Preston keeper sent off in the same circumstances.

By Stu ( on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 12:55 pm: Edit

Geoff, its not about whether it is intentional or not. Its about whether the advantage was taken away from the team.

In the Preston match, the advantage was clearly taken away from Preston.

I think the rules are spot on, there is nothing wrong with them. At the end of the day, the advantage was taken away.

It was a simple and clear decision, I don't see what all the fuss is about. If it had been the Preston keeper, you'd have all been screaming for him to be sent off and then saying how it was the right decision after the match.

By Geoff Whiting ( on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 01:33 pm: Edit

Stu, my last post already states my position. I would NOT be screaming for their keeper to go off. I hate red cards for these things, they ruin the game for me, and for me should only apply as I described above. Sorry, but I want to see a game properly fought out between two teams of eleven committed players, not decided by a rule that says so-and-so has to go off because of one split-second misjudgement. Bad or repeated fouls yes a red card, otherwise no.

You think the rules are spot-on, OK that's your opinion, I think they're way off.

We've stated our respective points of view which we're all entitled to and should respect, you've heard mine and you don't agree, and vice versa, there's no point arguing this any more then mate.

By Phil_G ( on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 06:38 pm: Edit

I agree with you on this Geoff.
We all agree that the ref was right to send Jimmy off, according to the rules. But, like Geoff, I believe the rule is wrong. The ref should have the power of discretion. Your example of the incident when Jimmy was sent off against Barnsley is spot on. That was a deliberate act, Saturday was not.
And Stu, wasn't the giving of the free kick the recompense for the advantage being taken away from Preston?
Just as our penalty was the recompense for the defender taking away our advantage by handling the ball.
If we follow your logic, then surely anyone giving away a freekick or penalty should be sent off for taking away the advantage from the opposing team? Yet their defender didn't even get booked for what was a deliberate act.

By Stu ( on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 08:46 pm: Edit

Phil, thats taking it completely out of proportion though and I'm sure you know it is.

What I meant by "taking the advantage away" was, Walker prevented a clear goalscoring chance. A free kick 20 yards out, hardly makes up for it does it? Where as a free kick for a push in the back hardly requires a red card.

At the end of the day, if player A finds himself running through on an empty goal, but is brought down from behind outside the box, is a free kick really good recompense for that? I say not.

And, your still missing the main point, Walker himself has said if the ref gives the free kick he has no choice but to send him off. He doesn't dispute the rule.

You've got to use a bit of common sense. As stated, a professional foul/handball outside the box by the keeper is more likely to take a big advantage away from the attacking team than a push in the back on the halfway line is, which is why you wouldn't be sent off for that.

I cant see where your argument comes from, as its taking it past the extreme to bordering on ridiculous.

Put it down to differing opinions, as Geoff said.

By Geoff Whiting ( on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 10:21 pm: Edit

Walker can't dispute the rule can he Stu, not publicly without getting into hot water. Publicly criticising refs is not on the professional footballer's agenda if he wants to stay on the right side of the authorities. But a muzzle doesn't make the rule right or sensible.

You'll recall in the paper he actually said he hadn't intended to handle the ball, that it came off his chest onto his hand - he said that because it had hit his hand the ref had to give him the red card. His mere acceptance of the rule is not the same as saying that he thinks the rule is fair in the circumstances.

You're right though, I think we'd all agree Wakker had to go off under the rules, none of us including Wakker can really argue that.

I'd just like the rule looked at so Refs could differentiate between the blatant (like vs. Barnsley) and the split second/accidental (like vs. Preston).

I don't think you should describe that as "bordering on ridiculous", the only "bordering" that's relevant here is that the block was only fractionally "bordering" on being outside the penalty area !

I mean these things aren't always black or white, there are incidents in the grey zone as well going on in all areas of the pitch, that require a degree of judgement from the officials. I don't see why this situation is any different, or where your argument comes from, any more than you can see where mine or Phil_G's comes from.

Anyway, cheers Stu, it's good to bounce these things around and get each other's opinions, it helps to make sense of the disappointment sometimes mate.

And thanks Phil, I'm glad I'm not in a minority of one on this.

By JPD ( on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 04:25 am: Edit

I'm with you Geoff.
I wonder what Jimmies instructions are for future occurences of the same situation?
Do the same again?
I somehow doubt it.
I'm suprised no-one has mentioned his goalkeeping coach as Jimmy is clearly not following instructions or is being given the wrong instructions.
Any professional goalies, ex managers, coaches etc care to comment on exactly what the approved action should be in this situation?
I can't find mention of it in my Howard Wilkinson Coaching Manual.

By Geoff Whiting ( on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 08:48 am: Edit


Thanks for that, and yes it would be interesting to know what response gets coached into Jimmy (if any) for situations like this, and if it'll change for any future recurrence.

So it's not in the Wilkinson manual then, well he probably hasn't considered it. With Wilkinson's tactics, I doubt if he considers the ball should ever be getting through as far as the goalkeeper.

By Phil_G ( on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 09:04 am: Edit

you said "And, your still missing the main point, Walker himself has said if the ref gives the free kick he has no choice but to send him off. He doesn't dispute the rule."
Neither do I, I completely agree that the rule is clear and the ref applied it correctly.

You also said "You've got to use a bit of common sense. As stated, a professional foul/handball outside the box by the keeper is more likely to take a big advantage away from the attacking team than a push in the back on the halfway line is, which is why you wouldn't be sent off for that."

That's exactly the point I'm trying to make. The ref doesn't have the ability to use common sense in this situation.
In other situations he can see the gravity of the offence, the position on the pitch, and how clear the advantage was to the attacking side, and either talk to the player, book him or send him off.
He doesn't have that leeway with the keeper, the rule says he must send him off.
I guess the rule comes from the last man rule.
When FIFA introduced the rule where the last man goes if he pulls the attacker back, they probably thought that if the keeper handles the ball outside the area, the odds are he's the last man and that it is a deliberate act, so he should also go.
They are trying to make every offence black or white to try and standardise the quality of reffing, but, as we all know, football is various shades of grey.
I would be interested to know what punishment the ref would have given if he had the option of lecture, yellow or red, rather than red only.

And as Geoff says, I don't have a problem with you on this, it's just interesting to see other people's point of view.

By Stu ( on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 09:12 am: Edit

Fair enough, I know what yor saying. Its just that as a Grade 3 Ref (although I dont bother reffing anymore) and playing in goal on a Sunday morning, I spose this decision and the Ref's actions are fairly close to home.
The Refs hands were tied, as you say, but from my opinion, even if I had the choice of a yellow or a red, I think I'd still go for the red personally.
What it does mean is that Ward will be making his debut against Sjoke! That could be interesting...

By Phil_G ( on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 10:09 am: Edit

Yeah, lets hope he has a better game than the last time we met!

By Paul G ( on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 11:33 am: Edit

Interesting debate this one.

For anyone listening on Saddlers World what did Mick Kearns make of it as he is presumably Jimmy's coach?

What would happen if a keeper handled outside the area but was not preventing a goal - for example preventing a ball being passed across the area. As the Preston player who did this was not booked presumably this is not a bookable offence for goalkeepers either.

By flownswift ( on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 12:25 pm: Edit

I think you hit the nail on the head phil, it was a goal scoring oppourtunity that walker stopped and had he slid out the area, holding the ball it would only have been a free kick. I think the red was for stopping the goalscoring oppourtunity rather than handling outside the area.

By The Landlord ( on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 08:01 pm: Edit


Jeeeeez, it's like being in the snug room of a really bad pub, late in the evening listening to a closing time argument - inarticulate ramblings as everyone makes their point and no one listens to anyone else.

In a nutshell, what everyone is circling around is:

1 - Jimmy committed a foul and got sent off.
2 - Some people think he shouldn't have been
3 - The ref might have been crap
4 - But then again he might not
5 - Some others are desperate for more refereeing consistency
6 - Some others think the rules should be changed

So why the lengthy discussion (I almost called it an argument)? You are all pursuing different points!

Gather up your jackets, IT IS TIME GENTLEMEN PLEASE!

Cheers all
Exile (at 8.0am and stone cold sober)

By Geoff Whiting ( on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 08:04 pm: Edit

What I keep seeing when I re-run the video is that if the shot had been fired a split second earlier, even just a tenth of a second earlier, the ball would still have hit Jimmy in just the same way, but the chances are it would have hit him just INSIDE the line before he slid out of the box, and that would have been regarded as a good save and in no way a foul challenge. So actually he would definitely have stopped the shot EITHER way, therefore the (accidental) hand ball outside the box actually made NO difference to the outcome of the incident. That's simply because the ball was just fired straight at his body.

What WOULD have made a difference and would also have changed my mind over the card is if the Preston striker had tried to lift the ball over Jimmy and he'd reached UP for it as he slid out of the box. THAT would have been a clear and deliberate hand-ball and a justifiable red card.

Don't tell me, I already know the rules! The red card was right according to the book, but can you see what I'm driving at ? I think there's a big difference in the two situations that I've described here, one's an inadvertent hand ball outside the box that actually changed nothing, the other's a clearly deliberate hand-ball that stops the ball clearing the 'keeper and heading for the net, and "takes the advantage away" as Stu quite correctly describes it.

Oh, one other point if I may, regardless of all this red-card/no red-card debate, do any of you remember the Bazeley clearance from the follow-up shot after the ball rebounded off Jimmy. Bloody unbelievable interception ! I think it's the best I've seen since my Roy of the Rovers days. Bazeley was absolutely fantastic to get to the ball and divert it wide. Amongst all this debate we've forgotten to give him the credit he deserves. Darren was absolutely superb guys, what did you think ?

By Geoff Whiting ( on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 08:06 pm: Edit

Sorry Exile, didn't see you call time until I'd already posted.

Any chance of one for the road ???

By The Landlord ( on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 10:06 pm: Edit

Better pull the curtains and lock the doors, then, I suppose - nothing better to do and no home to go to obviously!


By Geoff Whiting ( on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 10:20 pm: Edit

Sounds like my local mate, you'll do for me Exile ! By the way do I take it you're in NZ ?

Got any Black Bush around here, Irish Whisky that is, not the other sort of bush !


P.S. One thing I'm surprised about is that no-one's come back yet to comment about Darren Bazeley's incredibly great interception against Preston. I'll sit and wait while I'm savouring this whisky.

By Geoff Whiting ( on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 10:25 pm: Edit

Sounds like my local mate, you'll do for me Exile ! By the way do I take it you're in NZ ?

Got any Black Bush around here, Irish Whisky that is, not the other sort of bush !


P.S. One thing I'm surprised about is that no-one's come back yet to comment about Darren Bazeley's incredibly great interception against Preston. I'll sit and wait while I'm savouring this whisky.

By Geoff Whiting ( on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 10:28 pm: Edit

Christ Exile, this whisky's bloody good, I've only had the one and I'm so p****d that I've posted my message twice, unless perhaps I'm seeing double !!

By Exile ( on Friday, October 25, 2002 - 01:24 am: Edit

Right, that's it - you've had enough now! Do you realise I could lose my licence if I served you any more you drunk b*****d. Go on! Be off with you! [heave, grunt, kick] *slam*


PS - Yes, New Zealand, but wrong end of the country from Mr. Busby (don't ask him who is playing in the NPC final - might be a sore point).

By Bonser.J ( on Friday, October 25, 2002 - 01:38 am: Edit


Any chance of afters? I need to talk because "I HAVE A DREAM "

By The Landlord ( on Friday, October 25, 2002 - 04:27 am: Edit

Any time Mr. Bonser, sir! Now which table would you like to sit at? Can I wipe it for you? Here, let me brush your seat before you sit down! Hanger for your jacket?

Don't worry about paying right now - we'll set up a tab for you. You jUst enjoy yourself, and I'll accept 10p in the pound afterwards.

By Geoff Whiting ( on Friday, October 25, 2002 - 10:56 am: Edit

Landlord, any idea where Whittianga (or Whitianga) is, ever heard of it ? It's somewhere in NZ. Reason I ask is I've got some relatives there, my mother's sister (now expired), husband and kids, they moved there and set up the Whittianga Joinery Company in the late 50's - sure to be retired now but I don't know if their kids took over the business.

Daft question I know, a bit like the yank's with their "What, you're from BIRmingHAM ! ENGland ! You must know my friend Pete Smith !!

Any idea where it is mate, maybe let me know tomorrow, I'll be back in yer bar for a few more whiskies then.

Oh, and one for Jeremy, who's playing in the NPC final mate ? (sorry, couldn't resist)

What is the NPC final anyway Landlord ? (excuse my ignorance)

Cheers, Geoff

By Phil_G ( on Friday, October 25, 2002 - 03:51 pm: Edit

Exile, (in your guise as Landlord)

ramblings I'd put my hands up to, but inarticulate I take great offence to!

By Geoff Whiting ( on Friday, October 25, 2002 - 06:53 pm: Edit

Exile, Phil_G is right, I hadn't noticed that, inarticulate WE ARE NOT.

Phil, where do you get those smileys from on here mate, can you let me into the secret please.

By Bonser.J ( on Friday, October 25, 2002 - 10:06 pm: Edit

Who was it what said that we was not ticulate?

Landlord please send 10 pences to my pension fund

By Phil_G ( on Friday, October 25, 2002 - 10:06 pm: Edit

Geoff, have a look at the formatting option under the documentation heading on the left hand side.
There is a list of the formatting options.
Easiest option is to cut and paste the commands.
For example, the laugh out loud smiley is achieved by adding \clipart{lol} to your text.
Hope this helps.

By Geoff Whiting ( on Friday, October 25, 2002 - 10:13 pm: Edit

Just had a look at that Phil - my brain hurts !

I'll study it when I've got more time, thanks a lot, much appreciated mate. Now, let's try this

By Exile ( on Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 03:28 am: Edit

There's two Whitianga towns Geoff - one on the Coromandel peninsula (probable location of your rellies) and one further down in the Bay Of Plenty (much smaller, and more rednecky, so unlikely). Either way, these days they're much more likely to be making joints not joinery!

Apologies for the inarticulate comment - but as you were all talking to yourselves at the time felt it appropriate! In fact, thinking about it - you are (on occasion) a little toooo articulate (let's try this too):

NPC is the rugby union club competition final - being contested between Auckland and Waikato - two fine North Island teams, with no Southerners in sight (e.g. Canterbury, Otago).

Go Saddlers in Coventry. My brother was at college there and every time I visited I couldn't get over how soulless the place was (or may be he just took me to the dull bits). We surely can't fail again!

Cheers all,

By BS ( on Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 10:32 am: Edit

Going back to flownswift - you could be right - he could have been sent off for stopping the goalscoring attempt rather than handling.
Anyway, another game is upon us with all the drama that will bring - see ya....

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