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Rotherham (h) - League - 17th September

Reports and reaction from the 2002-03 season as Walsall finished 17th in Division 1
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Rotherham (h) - League - 17th September

Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:10 pm

Walsall 3 Rotherham 4
Zdrilic 15, 45; Leitao 62

Walker , Bazeley , Carbon (Roper 52), Hay , Aranalde , Wrack , O'Connor (Junior 80) , Sonner (Simpson 16), Corica , Leitao , Zdrilic
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By Stu on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 09:01 pm: Edit

Well, thank god I physically can't get back for Tuesday evening kick offs. From the sounds of it, the defence was abysmal.

Got a phone call from my brother at half time who felt the midfield was non-existent in the 1st half when Sonner went off.

Cant believe we conceded 4 goals, we've looked fairly sound defensively.

Nice to see Zdrillic score two, his performance on Saturday deserved a goal.

Frankly, I dont know where to go from here. I hope Lee does!

Finally, when oh when will Lee realise that Aranalde costs points. Why did he let Sedgwick cut inside him, which is how it was said on the radio. Has he not learnt from the Ipswich game, force a player to go outside NOT inside.

At least I havent got a •••• 2hr-ish drive home now. How I am so happy I bought a season ticket this year! Not.

By Giza on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 09:15 pm: Edit

Bad result.

quick guide on players for people not gone to the game.

Walker good save early in the game not at fault for any of the goals but i liked the bit where he asked byfield why he wasn't taking the penatly in which byfield responded with the one finger sign.
Bazeley sharp and lively wasn't used much in second half.
Zigor cost us at least two points again, no need for him to lunge at sedgwick, constantly one of the weak links GOODBYE.
Hay did ok struggled against Lee
Carbon ok
O'conner worked as a captain should tried his hardest to create but was struggling from a knock.
sonner came off early replaced by fitz who didn't really get in the game much to be fair.
Wrack Ran alot but thats only without the ball. tried but failed.
Corica Busy, lively decent game
Zdrillic two good goals deserves them for his work rate and attitude, second was an unstoppable strike.
Leitao Quite again but chipped in with a well taken goal.

Roper came on and hustled and bustled byfield off the ball
Junior no time to make an inpact AGAIN.

All in all sloppy mistakes from set plays, yet we scored three. Byfield was well up for it caused us problems. Wonder who was really behind his departure Himself or the club.

By SheffieldSaddler on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 09:22 pm: Edit

Well what can you say. How many points as Aranalde cost us already? Mistakes all the f*cking time. I know I cant single one player out but the bloke is a f*cking joke defensively. Why hasnt Lee realised this I will never know. I have always hated Aranalde and he has done nothing to convince me otherwise, he is sh*te. For gods sake give the bloke some competition at left back, I think its the only position we really dont have competition for. Perhaps Me or Stu would give him some competition or Doffer.
I am so disappointed, 0 points at home against Bradford and Rotherham is shocking and definate relegation form.
I also have no idea where we go from here! How the defence can suddenly concede 4 goals at home I will never know!
I think I will have to sleep on it and email CL tomorrow.

By SheffieldSaddler on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 09:26 pm: Edit

Oh and the answer to Byfield question Giza. He was under the impression he deserved to be the highest paid player at the club. Even though his record as a striker with us was sh*te!
Christ bring back Merrington, we seem to have collapsed since he went!

By Dave Gittins on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 09:43 pm: Edit

What is there to say - I agree with Giza's comments completely.

I got the impression tonight that we weren't really committed to the game, there seemed to be a total lack of concentration in the defence as we conceded - to quote Mick Kearns - schoolboy mistake goals. There were too many aimless balls hoofed forwards in the hope that someone might get on the end of them.

Good to see Zdrillic score a couple, his second nearly broke the net.

Let's hope that having fans around all four sides of the ground again (hopefully) against Wednesday in a couple of weeks helps - the atmosphere is sadly lacking with the GA closed.

By popperpancake on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 10:11 pm: Edit

That was a joke. Yes, aranalde was at fault for the fourth goal but hay and carbon were at fault for goals 2 and 3. Obvious that aranalde is gonna be blamed on here for the defeat but in my opinion hay, carbon, bazeley, simpson, wrack, corica and leitao were shite. At least aranalde trys and apart from the penalty i thought him and zdrilic were our best players. When will people accept that one or two players (ie aranalde and wrack) do not cause a team to lose 4 games on the trot. I am usually one for trying to keep things in perspective but tonite, especially the first half was pathetic. No balance at all..then corica goes on the left wing? I like corica but its like playing with a 10 yr old in ur side. I am beginning to doubt lee. Thank god he bought all these first division class players in otherwise i don't know where we'd be. Forget the fact that we need competition at left back , of course we do, but to blame one player is completely avoiding the main issue; the rest of the team is shite as well. Hay and carbon allowed lee to dominate them (god i wish leitao was half as strong), allowed him to head in in acres of space off a corner..allowed byfield to amble into the box off a simple free kick. Aranalde allows sedgewick to bring it down and then just hauls him down. Leitao was fudge lucky to still be on the pitch when he scored..id have hauled him off at half time. In my eyes lee needs to sort it out fudge quickly, before i really do start doubting him. A case of new managers syndrome last yr? I do hope not...cause if it was all he'll have done is delayed the fudge inevitable. I might criticise ronnie moore for being a loudmouth to the press but he knows how to organise a side and get the best out of the players he has got. Something Mr. lee needs to do and quickly..... At least we cant blame paul taylor, bennett, or graydon. There's only zigor left.

By popperpancake on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 10:14 pm: Edit

All confidence / expectation evaporated. Bring back Ray Train.

By scotty on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 10:17 pm: Edit

The weak link tonight was Carbon and I think Lee realised this by subing him for Roper. Carbon gave away too many free Kicks in dangerous positions (there second goal actually came from one). Roper adds more stability to the defence. Why put an inform player on the subs bench??

Corica - Superb!!

By Neil Ravenscroft on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 10:19 pm: Edit

I can't agree. Games change in a moment and, despite the terrible defending in the first half, only one team was going to win tonight until Zigor had his "moment". I don't like criticising players normally, but this one was down to him. Don't forget, he'd already got away with a blatant handball in the box that the completely useless ref and linesman had missed!
As for Lee, I have to say that the Manager can't be held responsible for players defending like we did tonight, especially when they have been reasonably solid the rest of the season.
Dzrillic was superb, by the way.

By popperpancake on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 10:36 pm: Edit

Equally we would have been out of site if it weren't for the central defenders going to sleep twice in the first half. Its a team game and our team needs to be better and not just at left back.

By Alan on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 10:52 pm: Edit

Popper, you're flogging a dead horse - or could that be donkey? Zigor is a complete and utter liability and cost us at least a point tonight. Ok, he wasn't alone in playing crap, but his mistake (in a long list of mistakes) was so stupid and unnecessary.

I also can't have been alone in seeing his half-time mardy arse when Martin was trying to rally the team. What a twerp.

By Stu on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 10:55 pm: Edit

I think the general point is though that Aranalde seems to frequently make mistakes that cost points. He was responsible for Ipswichs 1st goal and Sheff Utds equaliser that cost points. Also a goal at the Wolves, but if you take that off they still won.

The centre halves have been doing a good job, but they had to play against a quality target man in Lee. Who was a snip at £150k and a fast nippy striker who wanted to prove a point to us. They dont consistently make important mistakes. Aranalde does. We have cover for every position in the club except Zigors.

By Paul G on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 11:33 pm: Edit

Imagine this side with Padula at left back. I have to agree with Stu - OK all the defence was poor but Aranalde is the only player who is CONSISTENTLY woeful. It was schoolboy stuff to get turned like he did and then totally irresponsible to compound the error by pulling his man back. I am utterly totally fudge fed up of coming on here match after match to vent my fury at this guys performances. I've only seen one decent left back performance in three years and that was Man City last season when he was suspended.

Rotherham were the better organised side tonight. They are nothing spectacular. Dour and physical - but not overly so. Too many of our team were not physically able to compete. At 3-3 I felt neither side deserved to lose but also felt one side would nick another goal. It could have been us but the point is it should have been us. We really must impose ourselves on teams at home but once again came second in almost every position. We surrendered all the possession and failed to ever have a sustained period of pressure.

4 defeats in 5 home matches and we have only played one fancied team. Why when we are in this division do we always have a run of consecutive defeats at this stage of the season? 5 last year and 7 in RG's first div 1 campaign. It was 15 in 88-89. This totally undermines everyones confidence (fans as well) and sets the tone for the season. We are in a relegation battle already.

By popperpancake on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 12:00 am: Edit

I'm not saying aranalde is a great player or that we shouldn't bring someone in to play at left back. What i am saying is that it is foolish to blame one player for a team's performance. Hiding behind aranalde's mistakes is a cop out and deters comments on the rest of the side which is functioning poorly it has to be said. One player is never to blame for the team consistently performing badly and nor will bringing in new a left back halt our decline decisively. It will help, but not that we so we suddenly have a purpose and method to our play and that is what is lacking more than anything else. We really need O'Connor to be fully fit and playing to his best. I hope lee is looking for a new left back but i hope more he is trying to decide how he wants the team to function and that he sticks to it, otherwise we could have roberto fudge carlos at left back and still be a pile of ••••.

By Geoff Whiting on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 12:55 am: Edit

I have to say that you've mainly seen the game in a completely different light to me.

I thought we gave Rotherham an absolute hammering for lots of the game, we won hands down on points, the result I thought was an absolute "mugging", I can't believe we have lost this game, and I feel so unbelievably angry that Rotherham went away with the three points ! This is not the same feeling I got after the defeats to Reading or Bradford when we were pathetic up front. Watford I didn't see, but it sounded very much like the other two.

Tonight we had shots from everywhere for a change, which was a definite plus, and although the defending, unusually, was abysmal for the goals, there were other factors, such as the Ref and Linesmen.

Goal number 1 was a total fluke, slightly reminiscent of the equaliser we got at The Millennium Stadium. Byfield was a bystander, nowhere near the ball, as he often was when he played for us, suddenly the ball rebounded off one of our players straight to him and he's got a touch past Walker for an unlikely freak goal. Yes you can argue he ended up being in the right place, but nobody can convince me that the ball was expected to reach him in that position from the play that was developing. Total fluke in my opinion, and at that stage of the game totally undeserved on the balance of play.

Zdrillic's equaliser looked a fine effort, well struck from inside the penalty box across their keeper who had little chance to save. Levelled up the game, which was reasonable at that stage.

Rotherham's second came from a dubious free-kick which the ref allowed to be taken quickly from at least 5-6 yards ahead of where the "offence" took place. We went to sleep or were protesting, I'm not sure, but B*****d Byfield was babby-lining again to poke the ball past Wakker. Another unlikely goal against the run of play, 2-1 down and wondering how we could be !

Goal number three followed a blatant offside, right opposite my seat in the HL Fellows. The ball was played through, offside not given, Rotherham player won a corner straight from that, and abysmal defending did the rest. No excuse for the useless marking on the corner, but that corner would not have been given if the Ref and Linesman had done their job and given the offside decision a few seconds earlier.

Then Zdrillic's unstoppable rocket makes it 3-2. Three crap joke goals to Rotherham, Two beauties to us.

Half-time 3-2, my son's well p****d off, but at this point I told him there's no way we are gonna lose this game. We're the better side by miles and the equaliser is only a matter of time. Then on to our winner !

And so it was, almost ! The equaliser had to come and it did, but I don't share most fans' version, I thought Jorge as usual turned and got a poor connection on the ball, a half-hit shot, but fortunately it beat the keeper, as miskicked efforts often do, and it's in the net for 3-3.

Now at this point, if any of you saw any winner other than the Saddlers, then I was at a different game ! My half-time prediction was looking good.

Then after a number of spurned opportunities, when we could and should have put the the match beyond Rotherham, comes the sucker punch. Zigor's foul was ridiculous, he had NO chance of getting away with that. Some fans have said the players protests were because the offence was outside the box, I don't know because I was towards the other end of the HL Fellows. The Ref said penalty, I can't argue with that 'cos I wasn't close enough to judge if it was inside or outside the box. What I do know, however, is that no defender can risk that type of challenge in or near the Penalty area and expect to get away with it.

We should have been and deserved to be ahead by then, but suddenly and unexpectedly we're 4-3 down to a stupid penalty !

As with Villa and the dubious "throw-in" goal the previous night, I thought for the first time in the game we began to look like a beaten team, but even so we recovered to pile enough pressure on, and I think Rotherham were very lucky to survive the final period after their undeserved winner, with a great deal of good fortune going their way, and a load of absolute w**k decisions from the Ref. that constantly interrupted our attacks and p****d off the crowd !

I usually criticise Zigor a great deal, but I actually thought he worked hard and did well tonight, apart obviously from the awful challenge that gave away the winner, and that's more than enough for one game !

I also thought Wracky did much better when he moved out on the right, not surprising, it is his best position, as I've said in previous posts on here before.

Zdrillic was excellent at times, and his two superb goals were just reward for a good busy performance.

Tonight the defence has to take the blame, we've been blaming the forwards up to now, but tonight it's all down to the men at the back.

Another six-pointer blown tonight, but I can't see it in the same light as the previous three. I thought Rotherham were often over-physical, the fouls in the box that went unpunished on corners and free kicks were unbelievable, there was a lot of diving that totally conned the Ref, I tbink we were "mugged", and I feel really angry tonight that they took away three undeserved points from a game that we undoubtededly should have won and, overall, on the balance of play we deserved to win. Tne fact that we didn't is down to a few moments of defensive madness that will prove crucial come the end of the season.

That didn't apply to the last three games, but I think it did tonight.

I am gutted that we got nothing in the end from this game, the losing run should have come to an end.

So the question is, where do we go from here ? This was the easy month, lots of us predicted Reading, Bradford and Rotherham as three easy wins at home, these games against our expected main rivals were all six pointers, all now lost ! After the last few games, I expected a defeat tonight and said so on here, but it didn't work out as expected. Superior opponents, a poor performance, a deserved defeat, I can take all of this, but not so this one tonight, it leaves me so incredibly angry.

Even at this early stage, after tonight I've begun to think that relegation could well be unavoidable - the points we've aready given away to inferior rivals in these recent "six-pointers" is going to give them a points advantage that we shall find very hard to catch up.

Where the next points will come from I just do not know. If a game like tonight can end up going against us, I can only wonder how opponents manage to have so much luck while we seem to get virtually none ! The Gods seem to be against us as we continue to slide down the table.

No points are predicted by me at Millwall, and dubious about the Sheff.Wed. game, I think no points again ! So will it be bottom, bottom but one or bottom but two for us.

I am now VERY worried !

By Geoff Whiting on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 01:01 am: Edit

I have to say that you've mainly seen the game in a completely different light to me.

I thought we gave Rotherham an absolute hammering for lots of the game, we won hands down on points, the result I thought was an absolute "mugging", I can't believe we have lost this game, and I feel so unbelievably angry that Rotherham went away with the three points ! This is not the same feeling I got after the defeats to Reading or Bradford when we were pathetic up front. Watford I didn't see, but it sounded very much like the other two.

Tonight we had shots from everywhere for a change, which was a definite plus, and although the defending, unusually, was abysmal for the goals, there were other factors, such as the Ref and Linesmen.

Goal number 1 was a total fluke, slightly reminiscent of the equaliser we got at The Millennium Stadium. Byfield was a bystander, nowhere near the ball, as he often was when he played for us, suddenly the ball rebounded off one of our players straight to him and he's got a touch past Walker for an unlikely freak goal. Yes you can argue he ended up being in the right place, but nobody can convince me that the ball was expected to reach him in that position from the play that was developing. Total fluke in my opinion, and at that stage of the game totally undeserved on the balance of play.

Zdrillic's equaliser looked a fine effort, well struck from inside the penalty box across their keeper who had little chance to save. Levelled up the game, which was reasonable at that stage.

Rotherham's second came from a dubious free-kick which the ref allowed to be taken quickly from at least 5-6 yards ahead of where the "offence" took place. We went to sleep or were protesting, I'm not sure, but B*****d Byfield was babby-lining again to poke the ball past Wakker. Another unlikely goal against the run of play, 2-1 down and wondering how we could be !

Goal number three followed a blatant offside, right opposite my seat in the HL Fellows. The ball was played through, offside not given, Rotherham player won a corner straight from that, and abysmal defending did the rest. No excuse for the useless marking on the corner, but that corner would not have been given if the Ref and Linesman had done their job and given the offside decision a few seconds earlier.

Then Zdrillic's unstoppable rocket makes it 3-2. Three crap joke goals to Rotherham, Two beauties to us.

Half-time 3-2, my son's well p****d off, but at this point I told him there's no way we are gonna lose this game. We're the better side by miles and the equaliser is only a matter of time. Then on to our winner !

And so it was, almost ! The equaliser had to come and it did, but I don't share most fans' version, I thought Jorge as usual turned and got a poor connection on the ball, a half-hit shot, but fortunately it beat the keeper, as miskicked efforts often do, and it's in the net for 3-3.

Now at this point, if any of you saw any winner other than the Saddlers, then I was at a different game ! My half-time prediction was looking good.

Then after a number of spurned opportunities, when we could and should have put the the match beyond Rotherham, comes the sucker punch. Zigor's foul was ridiculous, he had NO chance of getting away with that. Some fans have said the players protests were because the offence was outside the box, I don't know because I was towards the other end of the HL Fellows. The Ref said penalty, I can't argue with that 'cos I wasn't close enough to judge if it was inside or outside the box. What I do know, however, is that no defender can risk that type of challenge in or near the Penalty area and expect to get away with it.

We should have been and deserved to be ahead by then, but suddenly and unexpectedly we're 4-3 down to a stupid penalty !

As with Villa and the dubious "throw-in" goal the previous night, I thought for the first time in the game we began to look like a beaten team, but even so we recovered to pile enough pressure on, and I think Rotherham were very lucky to survive the final period after their undeserved winner, with a great deal of good fortune going their way, and a load of absolute w**k decisions from the Ref. that constantly interrupted our attacks and p****d off the crowd !

I usually criticise Zigor a great deal, but I actually thought he worked hard and did well tonight, apart obviously from the awful challenge that gave away the winner, and that's more than enough for one game !

I also thought Wracky did much better when he moved out on the right, not surprising, it is his best position, as I've said in previous posts on here before.

Zdrillic was excellent at times, and his two superb goals were just reward for a good busy performance.

Tonight the defence has to take the blame, we've been blaming the forwards up to now, but tonight it's all down to the men at the back.

Another six-pointer blown tonight, but I can't see it in the same light as the previous three. I thought Rotherham were often over-physical, the fouls in the box that went unpunished on corners and free kicks were unbelievable, there was a lot of diving that totally conned the Ref, I tbink we were "mugged", and I feel really angry tonight that they took away three undeserved points from a game that we undoubtededly should have won and, overall, on the balance of play we deserved to win. Tne fact that we didn't is down to a few moments of defensive madness that will prove crucial come the end of the season.

That didn't apply to the last three games, but I think it did tonight.

I am gutted that we got nothing in the end from this game, the losing run should have come to an end.

So the question is, where do we go from here ? This was the easy month, lots of us predicted Reading, Bradford and Rotherham as three easy wins at home, these games against our expected main rivals were all six pointers, all now lost ! After the last few games, I expected a defeat tonight and said so on here, but it didn't work out as expected. Superior opponents, a poor performance, a deserved defeat, I can take all of this, but not so this one tonight, it leaves me so incredibly angry.

Even at this early stage, after tonight I've begun to think that relegation could well be unavoidable - the points we've aready given away to inferior rivals in these recent "six-pointers" is going to give them a points advantage that we shall find very hard to catch up.

Where the next points will come from I just do not know. If a game like tonight can end up going against us, I can only wonder how opponents manage to have so much luck while we seem to get virtually none ! The Gods seem to be against us as we continue to slide down the table.

No points are predicted by me at Millwall, and dubious about the Sheff.Wed. game, I think no points again ! So will it be bottom, bottom but one or bottom but two for us.

I am now VERY worried !

By JPD on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 03:05 am: Edit

So we don't do well against Lee's former teams or against teams from Yorkshire or against former Premiership clubs. Who does that leave?
Thanks for the report Geoff - really enjoyed it.
People may wish to note that modern coaching methods concentrate on getting defenders to get opposition players to go inside where its crowded and they are likely to lose the ball and not outside where they might get behind the defence.
Zigor is probably told to try and force his player inside.
Obviously the outcome is not always what is expected, but its a percentages thing and most times it works (according to the manuals).

By belgian saddler on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 05:44 am: Edit

worried, sounded like a right fiasco defensively, oh dear, oh dear dear dear. at least the forwards scored but still feel its hard to take positives from this

By SheffieldSaddler on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 07:09 am: Edit

Zigor not only makes mistakes, but if you notice the mistakes occur at the worst possible time, tonight a typical example, Sheffield United when we were playing well, need I go on, in fact all his mistakes are at times when we have a chance of winning or getting something from the game.
I know there is neve a good time to make a mistake but Zigor always seems to do it when we are on top and playing well.
I said at the beginning of the season that I would give Zigor a chance, I am afraid his chance is over. He is sh*te and will never make a decent full back. Why CL gave him a 3 year contract is a utter mystery.
And to think we had a left back on the books that was 10 times a better player and we let him go for nothing....

By Neil Ravenscroft on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 07:19 am: Edit

Completely agree with Geoff. I don't blame Lee for this one at all. Once the players cross the white line, the sort of defending we showed last night is down to them and them alone. Centre forwards totally unmarked from corners? Aranalde did do the right thing showing Sedgwick the inside onto his right foot, so why make a clumsy challenge like that? There was cover around!

Yes, we were mugged last night - three goals from set pieces and a penalty - never really in trouble from open play.

Dzrillic looks a really good player, by the way. Glad I was prepared to wait for more than a couple of substitute appearances.

By flownswift on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 07:53 am: Edit

I have to agree with popper here. Aranalde was not too bad until that fudge corner where I actually heard the slap of his hand on the ball, as soon as he did that he should have been taken off, as he was going to cost us points. What the hell was he doing.

Last night though was the worst I have ever seen Carbon. Nowhere near the game. Hence Roper warming up from the early return at half time. Playing Corica in the hole gives us no width what so ever and with Wrack pushing wide on the right and corica in the hole there was no cover for Zigor. I do not like him as a player but last night he was not too bad. The penalty, was not too convincing, seen some given, some not, but when he slapped the ball from a corner 5 mins previous it was obvious to me he was going to cost us.

There were as popper says far worse players than Aranalde, but he cost us the last goal, not the first 3.

By flownswift on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 07:56 am: Edit

Oh yeah and I forgot, where was junior playing when he came on, and where was corica supposed to be playing once junior was on? Plus I do not think I have ever seen 4 worse attempts at heading the ball than juniors 4 last night. (before we all dive in danny tiatto, I wasn't judging his ten mins, just the 4 heading attempts. I know some like to let players have a few games first ;-))

By Geoff Whiting on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 08:03 am: Edit

Christ, it's morning, I've just logged on to see what Carling and Black Bush whisky made me say last night and I can't believe I typed in that much ! And to make it worse I somehow seem to have posted it TWICE ! Sorry lads - Ed - can you take one of them out please, and talking of taking one of them out, COLIN LEE can you take one of them out - make it the left back whatever his name is - Araldite or something - maybe that's why we're stuck with him.

When I finally calmed down enough to go to bed last night (or was that this morning?) - you might tell from my "report" that I wasn't exactly calm and relaxed - I lay awake feeling so angry that Zigor had thrown the game with that penalty. Now I know it's illogical to put the defeat all down to him, but we'd hauled ourselves back as I expected us to based on the relative performances of the two teams, and we were at that stage on top and in a position and playing well enough to go on and complete the recovery and win the game.

But as someone has said above or in one of the other threads, Araldite has this almost mystical ability to turn a game by dropping an enormous brick at exactly the wrong moment, and so it turned out.

Re-reading my report, I may have gone a bit over the top, it was how I was feeling, but I thought Rotherham were very average, their defence was desperate at times, evidenced by the number of times the ball either went over the stand or was hoofed so high it came down with ice on it !

Lee, Rotherham's Lee that is, was always a problem, but the stuff he got away with I cannot start to understand, given the otherwise pernickity nature of the Ref, who I thought was absolutely "pants".

Why a penalty wasn't awarded to us for the foul on Zdrillic by their right back in the closing stages, I'll never know, but it's history now.

I just don't see right now where this run of defeats will end - if we can win hands down on points like last night and still come away with nothing, I think the situation looks grim.

I'll be interested to read all the comments on here when I get home from the office tonight, must go, I'm late for work now ..... watch out for the boss - Oh no, the boss, that's me, just as well !

By Stu on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 08:48 am: Edit

I'd like to know why we would encourage a player to cut inside when on the edge of the box. I can understand forcing a player infield when he is in the middle third of the pitch. But, if on a Sunday morning, one of my defenders (I'm a keeper) let an attacker cut inside him on the edge of the box I'd be livid with him as your only encouraging the player to shoot. It may be crowded, but that also means you face the risk of a deflection taking it into the opposite side of the net. There is no excuse for letting a player cut inside you once within 20 yards of goal, see Ipswich if you want an example and their first goal.

Although, I have to say, I'm still not worried. Why, because Grimsby and Brighton are both attempting to win "worst Division 1 team ever". Thus, there is really only 1 relegation spot available this season due to the complete ineptitude of the afore mentioned sides.

By Neil Ravenscroft on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 09:28 am: Edit

True, true.

By Jittery Saddler on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 09:45 am: Edit

But if two teams are giving away loads of points you may see the other club relegated with more than 50 points.

And Stu if I remember a couple of weeks ago you said that Bradford and Rotherham were 6 points if ever you saw them or something like that.

By aravinda singh on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 09:48 am: Edit

cheer up guys.. We werent THAT bad!!

AGAIN no luck!!

WE gotta take the positives from this and turn it around..

(maybe if we play bad we might win)

Good to see Zdrilic finding his feet.. We keep forgetting that he's an International who unfortunately has a a bad run of injuries/ management/ international duties work against him..
I think him corica & jorge will form a good combo soon!!!

AND people lets not forget IF we had MORE people At the game the atmosphere would help LIFT our team!!!

By Johnny Fartpants on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 09:52 am: Edit

Apparently the Rotherham team were farting away for half-an-hour before the game last night.

Is that what's meant by windy Millers?

By A Strong Silent Typist on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 09:53 am: Edit

Geoff Whiting, have you ever heard of the dictum that "less is more"?

By Corny Saddler on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 10:09 am: Edit

Thats what I say to my girlfriends once i've dictum.

By Stu on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 10:23 am: Edit

Jittery, aye, I did say that this should and must be 6 points. But that was before i realised that Brighton and Grimsby are even worse than I first thought. Which is why I've had a change of heart.

And as has been said, the performances aren't too bad. We just that bit of luck or rub of the green, that at the moment doesn't seem to be coming our way. When it does, we'll pick up the points. Looking at the table, we're still only 3 points of the lower end of mid table.

By Sir Bufton Tufton on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 10:34 am: Edit

Dear The Times,

I've just heard the first "We're too good to go down!" of autumn. Is this a record?

By Mal on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 10:53 am: Edit

Pretty simple really, the formation is wrong, the players have no confidence, loyalty to Corica and Jorge means we are playing with 9 men.

I know this is a game of opinions by Corica for me is cheating us all, lightweight, out of sorts and just not adding anything. Jorge much the same but tries harder.

We are too narrow, have no options on or off the park on match days with the squad selected.

The buck stops with Lee as this has been general standard of performance since day 1 this season.

Positives from last night, Zdrillic could be our new hero passion and goals, err who else. Summary in my opinion;

Wacker looks to be affected by team, should have taken cross for 2nd goal
Zigor played well, never hides, but too often makes match changing mistakes
Carbon lost his head
Hay has he got a fifty pence head
Bazeley gets worse
Wrack lots of running and covering others mistakes
O'Connor injured from the start
Sonner injured from the start
Simpson return from injury and poor
Corica Cheat and hides
Jorge needs a rest but not upto Div 1
Zdrillic sweat and goal
Roper should have been in from the start for this game
Junior 8 minutes sums it up

Colin Lee a long hard look at both his tactics, motivation and player selection. Where are the options, whats happened to the attacking football that saved us.

Options Harry, from the bench
Dani, got to be given a chance
Pedro, get rid
Wright, from the bench
Birch, from the start
Ward, poss replace Wacker, it's worked before

By Neil Ravenscroft on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 10:54 am: Edit

No, the Villa fans have been at it for two weeks!

By Curious Saddler on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 11:31 am: Edit

Mal, I think you're extremely harsh on a lot of undeserving cases there, but agree there was no point in taking on Dani 'Invisible Man' Rodrigues if he can't even get on the bench when we're struggling down the wrong end of the table. More to the point, what's a 50 pence head?

By flownswift on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 11:39 am: Edit

same as head like a sheriffs badge, imagine the way the bal would re-bound off either and ...... there you go.

By MarkW on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 11:48 am: Edit

Is Mal short for malfunction? This must be the case.Corica and Jorge the weak links? How differently 2 people see the game of football.

By Mal on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 11:49 am: Edit

Quite right flownswift, an ex player friend of mine was affectionately know as fifty pence head, cos the ball always flys of at angles.

Harsh, maybe but those have been my thoughts for some weeks and when the likes of Derek Mountfield reflect the same thoughts there must be something in it. I just think it is easy to float around and then jump into action when the ball is on your toe, but at times when you are asked to do a job the pretty stuff needs to take a back seat. I'm afraid we are playing football which is far to open and Colin should have known what type of game it would be last night. OK Georgie Ropes is not the most cultured centre half but you can live with taht even in Div 1, and more importantly he fights for the ball.

Sicknote Carbon struggles with a grassburn and Hay is coming back off 2yrs out so he's excused. It does really get me that players know they can kid fans by 'Looking' good but the facts are we are not creating, it's time to batten down and at least get a point at The New Den otherwise the season will take the same pattern as under Sir Ray. One thing I can guarentee is that if not we will be seeing manager number 3 very soon. I for one do not want Colin to let it get to that but he has to be brave and strong. Final thought when are players sacked for underperforming....NEVER point taken

By Neil Ravenscroft on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 12:03 pm: Edit

We will be seeing Coach number three, though. See above

By Manc Saddler on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 12:08 pm: Edit

Nobody has commented on the strange sight of the players coming out of the dressing room at half time over five minutes early? What was all this about? Shouldn't Lee and Houston have spent the valuable time working with the players to sort the problems out? Or had there bee an almighty row, possibly involving Carbon, who seemed to start the second half with a really bad, almost suicidal for the team, attitude by consistently giving dangerous free kicks away until he got substitituted. I didn't pick up that he had an injury. Discuss................

By Ernie Pentuzo on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 12:14 pm: Edit

did someone call?

By Ulster Saddler on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 12:14 pm: Edit

I,m worried.

We have lost at home to Bradford (who lost to Wrexham and got thumped last night), lost to Reading and Rotherham. We should have at least got 4 points out of a possible 9 at worst. I have read some saying we were unlucky and not that bad. I even read on another thread that we deserved a point against Ipswich!! (a game I was at).

IN MY OPINION, lucky or not, you take your points at home against these teams and use your luck, if you get any, against the better teams. From what I am reading its the same as the first two games. Poor defending, no tackling and playing far too open. We are just too easy to beat.

You lot know better than me coz you are at the games, but I think it should be recognised now that there is a problem and do something about it. I think signing a player during close season who cannot make the first team regulary for a club like us is a hanging offence. We all thought that the first two performances were down to our injury problems, but some/all these players are back and we are not picking up points.

Am I right to be worried or should I relax in the knowledge that everything will be OK?

UP THE SADDLERS

By rico on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 12:32 pm: Edit

I'm still worried but less so after last night.

Driller will keep scoring. Would love to see Junior play up front with him for an extended run and see what happens.

As you know 4-4-2 is my prefered formation and needed now more than ever to get more points on the board.

Herivelto on the right wing with Pedro on the left???

By SheffieldSaddler on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 12:48 pm: Edit

I think Mal has been very harsh with the comments. Jorge is up to division one if you give him the service, every striker goes through a bad patch in a season.
Corica is the only player we have who can create chances and split defences on a regular basis.
Bazeley is a decent player who I think is looking a good signing at right back.
Hay is a class player, you dont honestly think he was at Leeds United by luck do you? I doubt if he has ever played for us when being 100% fit.
Carbon is one of the best central defenders in this league when fully fit. He may however have a bad game now and again.
The main cause of our problems at the minute is CONFIDENCE. You lose 4 games on the run and havent really played that badly, nothing is running for you etc etc.
I know 0 points against Reading, Bradford and Rotherham is a MASSIVE kick in the teeth but I still think we will be in the top half of the table by end of season.

By freda dadaji greaves on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 01:01 pm: Edit

Hari Velto...Hari Nalde...Hari Krishna..Hari Hari

Friends

Success comes from the inner being. We must work together in harmony.

Hari Hari.

By Geordiesaddler on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 02:40 pm: Edit

Spot on Mal, Thought we were outfought and outplayed by a better side on the night, don't let the "7 goal thriller" business diguise that. They passed it better, wanted it more, and thoroughly deserved to win. Can't believe some of you are suggesting we were robbed. The word that describes almost all our players last night is ineffective. The only exceptions were Zdrilic and Roper. Jorge should get a video of the game and watch how the other three forwards played. I'm sick of people saying he doesn't get the service or he's not this type of player or that type of player. He's there to lead the line, he doesn't work hard enough, doesn't shoot often enough, and how many times did the ball criss cross their goal-mouth last night? The ones who were worse than ineffective were Zigor (match losing error again, woeful going forward), Carbon (given the biggest working over I've seen a Centre half get since Rambo was in town), O'Connor (admitedly injured), and Simpson (mind on other things). As for the solution, back to basics ie. learn to control and pass the ball, defend set plays etc etc. Roper should never have been dropped and deserves a run in the team, and personnally I don't know what Mark Wright and Gary Birch have done wrong other than look extremely promising, competent young players who are mature beyond their number of games in the first team. They should be at least on the bench putting pressure on the under achievers - oh and sign a left-back, I suggested John Harley a couple of weeks ago when Fulham wanted him out on loan, is he still available?

By popperpancake on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 02:47 pm: Edit

Harsh but fair mal. Jorge is simply not pulling his considerable weight. Corica is so lightweight it is untrue. No doubt they can both play at this level and personally i like both of them and would love them to be performing, but at the moment they are not. Hay and Carbon at fault for 3 out of 4 goals but aranalde blamed for the loss. In my opinion if u wanna get into blaming players for goals (which is something i prefer not to do) how about bazeley ....against wolves misjudging the long cross field ball to allow rae in for his second (sound familiar aranalde v sheff utd?)......bazeley allowing salako to wander in to the box and supply hughes with reading's opening goal (sounds like zigor generally)...bazeley allowing the watford sub the freedom of vicarage road to supply smith with their first goal (aranalde at wolves). One more and he'll have caught up with our friend the spaniard. Bazeley does not even get a mention when a goal is scored from the right hand side of our defence but anytime a goal is scored from the left the calls for zigor's head begin. Lee is perhaps a victim of my frustration at the moment because of his success last year coupled with the players he managed to bring in. If this had happened last year then it would have been more acceptable to me but lee has raised expectation now and must live with it. I think the squad is strong enough to be doing much better than it is, they need to start prooving it.

By popperpancake on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 02:51 pm: Edit

Woeful going forward? Aranalde supplied the first goal for zdilic and was heavily involved with his second.

By Geordiesaddler on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 03:15 pm: Edit

Yes woeful going forward, his passing down the left flank is woeful, his long throws are a joke - compare them to Rotherham's. How anyone else can take credit for Zdrilic's goals, the first was just bad defending which he punished, and the second was a superb invividual effort.

By popperpancake on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 03:37 pm: Edit

His long throws are a joke? That comment is funnier. All Rotherham do is challenge for the ball when it comes in ..... u cannot claim the thrower is doing anything special surely. It's up to the people in the box to make something of it! Aranalde crossed the ball for the first goal..admit it! It's a fact. Can't believe people are criticising his throwing! Come on. OK, the second zdrilic goal was •••• all to do with aranalde (much more to do with corica's stepover actually) but i thought'd i'd give it a go! If anyone on here or CL thinks that removing aranalde from the team will cure all problems they are very very very very much mistaken. That's all i'm trying to say.

By popperpancake on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 03:42 pm: Edit

Anyway, any ideas as to who CL is trying to bring in? Because until he does bring someone in everyone is gonna have to put up with aranalde and the rest of the players.

By popperpancake on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 03:50 pm: Edit

I haven't been as angry with something that has happened at walsall fc as last nite since ray train left the club.

By Dave Roe on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 03:50 pm: Edit

Removing Aranalde won't cure all problems, but it will sure as hell cure a lot of them.

By RushallSaddler on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 03:53 pm: Edit

How about Alan Wright from the villa

By Chris Owen on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 03:58 pm: Edit

It can go one of two ways from now. We've been hammered on the pitch (and regardless of ifs and maybes, the results are what count and they have been dreadful), and there appears to be all hell breaking loose in the backroom.

So it can either snowball and implode, probably ending in Lee's sacking, or the whole team, including the management, will buckle down, realise their backs are against the wall, and fight their way out of this hole. Its certainly becoming obvious that unless they do, and regardless of how bad some other teams in this division are, we will not survive in this division beyond this season. I hope for one that the sheer sense of shame at recent defeats, and the clearing of the air that must have gone on to herald recent backroom departures, will provide the spur to perform to our potential. On paper we have a better squad than last year, but they have yet to prove it.

By popperpancake on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 04:07 pm: Edit

Wright from villa sounds ok, harley from fulham someone has mentioned, anyone from anywhere others scream. I've gotta stop looking at this message board every 12 seconds. It will only lead to bad things.

By dave_hawkes on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 04:29 pm: Edit

I'd play Zigor on the left wing. But we don't have any cover in defence for him. Oh, and we don't play with wingers any more do we? Which is why we signed Dani boy, a winger/striker I suppose!

I wish we had kept Freddie. I thought he defended better than Zigor, but he also had more experience and looked very reassuring compared to Zigor.

Brighton sound poor, but we haven't seen Grimsby play yet so it's a bit early to write them off. They were dire last season but still turned it around.

Talking of turning it around... I think Lee can still do a good job for us. Jorge and Zdrilic are playing together, with both supposedly being fully fit, and the net result was 3 goals. The defence, apart from Zigor, is fairly sound. Although if Carbon was going to play last night, I'd rather see him paired with Roper as they worked really well last season.

The midfield is odd. I'd rather see us play a more conventional 4 man midfield with wingers, but I was speaking online to a Torquay fan the other day who said he played the same sort of way with them, with one man behind the strikers and a tightish 3 man midfield.

Anything from Millwall will be a bonus, and then we must win against Wednesday the following weekend. Another home defeat doesn't bare thinking about. Who knows though, if the terrace is back open then then the atmosphere may improve.

By Mal on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 04:35 pm: Edit

Best discussion for ages shame it's on the back of some dire performances. Anyhow if you read my comments the comments directed at Jorge and Corica are based on what they are doing now. Football is about NOW and not reputations, Jorge is simply not doing what he is paid for, oh sorry he is but ocassionaly, and Corica is completely out of form and is creating yet another problem for a team that is struggling.

I don't think we need to go overboard just think that if Colin is too prove his worth which I very much hope he needs to be strong. That means back to basics and grinding out a result. If that means sacrificing Corica for a game or two in the starting lineup and allowing us to bring in Mark Wright, Harry or Dani then do it.

Jorge has played nine games and is struggling as he did last year. Put into perpspective he is judged as our best striker by Colin but is letting him down give Birch, Junior and Zdrillic a nine game run ! Again we can then judge

The biggest single concern is now who do we play at Millwall when Colin may have no choice as O'Connor & Sonner will be out, where is your midfield ? Simpson could be gone so our experience is gone and the kids get a chance

Still optimistic, know we can do this as I feel this is the strongest squad ever on paper. Trouble is paper gets flushed down the pan and if these lot don't improve that is where we are going.

So team for Saturday against Millwall should be;

Wacker

Roper
Carbon
Hay

Zigor
Simpson
Wrack
Bazeley
Harry

Zdrillic
Birch

Subs: Corica, Jorge, Junior, Dani, Ward

By Codsall Saddler on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 04:52 pm: Edit

How many ways can there be to lose a football match? We've gone from one extreme to the other in scoring 3 cracking goals but defending like kids - in earlier games, the defence had looked good but the forwards were clueless.

Whilst the (dubious) penalty cost us the game - it should have been no more than a consolation for Rotherham. The first 3 did the damage and Zigor wasn't involved in them. I think we've got worse, and less committed players, than Aranalde to worry about. Hay and Carbon were totally out of sorts and unable to deal with Lee - who got away with murder from a terrible referee. Roper is ideal for that sort of battle, as he proved. Thought Driller was outstanding and could work with any of the other forwards we have.

On a positive note - we're miles better as a team than last year. Think back to Barnsley away, Wendy away, Gillingham away, etc. The players now have to dig in and prove it. Mart's influence in the dressing room will be critical. We also need a coach that can motivate and man-manage, which seems to be what Merrington did. Think Houston was a bit dour for that.

Keep the faith

By Phil_G on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 05:34 pm: Edit

Sorry Codsall, but from where I was, it was a blatant penalty, nothing dubious about it.
And only a few minutes before, I'm sure Zigor handled the ball from a corner, which was unseen by the ref and linesman.
Anway, my point is, I think we have to be careful crying out for Lee to play two wingers.
They are all well and good if we're dominating a game and pressing forward, but if the opposition play three in midfield, we can get overrun, and they then become 'fringe' players.
If Lee insists on playing Corica in his hole, so to speak, our midfield would be very weak with two wingers.
And getting back to Zigor, if we play three centre halfs in a 3-5-2, and are looking for a wingback to play on the left, predominantly for attack, with the odd defensive duty thrown in, how about Pedro?
So I would offer:

Walker

Hay
Carbon
Roper

Bazeley
O'connor
Simpson(as Sonner is banner)
Corica
Matias

Zdrillic
Birch/Junior (flip a coin)

By Slim Shifnal on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 05:34 pm: Edit

Why are people blaming the ref? He let us off one blatant penalty, what more do you want from him?
We should be more concerned with the performance of some of our own players, which we can control, than the performance of a ref, which we cannot.

And Popper, have to disagree with you for about the first time I think, no idea how you can defend Aranalde, and as for him setting up the first goal, it was a terrible cross which Rotherham somehow failed to clear, and then Zdrillic finished well. Technically it might be called an assist, but it wasn't really. What is really annoying is that we had a far better left back at the club and Lee let him go.

Couldn't understand the abuse Byfield was getting, all he was doing was the same as he did for us, falling down holding his head, kicking the ball away etc., for all his limitations he looks a better striker than anyone we've got. As for the racist barracking I just wish the club would do something about it instead of ignoring it. Do your job Whalley you useless fecking twit.

Oh well, Millwall saturday, decent chip shop if nothing else. Forget the diet for a day I think.

By Geoff Whiting on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 06:19 pm: Edit

To a "Stong Silent Typist"

Yes, of course I have heard of the dictum "less is more". I had a good education thank you, that's why you won't find many spelling mistakes in my posts, just the odd mis-type on the odd occasion, and they happen because I'm not "a strong typist", silent or otherwise !

So what's your point ? You post as much as you want, not a lot presumably, and I'll post a report if I want to - I'm paying the 'phone bill, what's your problem ? You don't have to read it !

I had a lot to get off my chest; that's because I'm a real fan and last night really hurt. It really hurt a lot of other people too judging by the response on here today ! I don't know about you, other than your claimed typing ability. So tell us about yourself, and maybe tell us your views on the game you saw last night - well, did you see the game last night ? Sum it up in, say, a couple of sentences.

By Stu on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 06:46 pm: Edit

Dave,

I don't think we need to wait and see how bad Grimsby are. They record says it all, Played 8, Drawn 2, Lost 6 and scored just 4 goals in the process!

By Alli on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 06:55 pm: Edit

Does anybody else REALLY hate darren byfield?

By Geoff Whiting on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 07:06 pm: Edit

And yet, Stu, Grimsby are still only two wins from overtaking us ! Just 5 points behind, due to us just having thrown away :-

(A) Three (previously) expected home wins
(B) One immense opportunity of an (unexpected) away win

OK, so they probably won't gain those two wins over us on current form, yet late on last season we'd have said that too, and they went on a similar run to us and survived in Div 1.

I don't think we should focus on Grimsby and Brighton filling the bottom two places, but just concentrate on ourselves climbing away from the mess we've got ourselves into.

Millwall away and Sheff Wed at home now take on massive importance ! Just three weeks ago we all sounded so up-beat about the easy September fixtures, now we need to win two games that I think are both potentially harder than the last four, just to avoid a total whitewash for the month.

What a situation, ******g unbelievable !

By Doris Sjokes on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 07:10 pm: Edit

Not unbelievable is it Geoff? Rather predictable I would have thought.

By Pelsall Saddler on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 07:25 pm: Edit

I thought the Rotherham front two were outstanding. Lee pulled shirts, backed on, dived, climbed all over our defenders, and generally made a complete nuisance of himself from kick-off until he was substituted. His two goals made it, for me the complete centre-forwards performance, and I wish we had him in our attack. Having said that, I feel if Roper had been on from the start, he would have given Lee a bit more of the physical stuff back.
As for our former Cardiff hero, well I don't recall ever seeing him play that well in a Walsall shirt, his pace at times was electric, although it must be said that his goals were handed to him on a plate by our non-existent defense.
Attacking wise, you can't blame a strike pair that score three goals, I don't think Rotherham looked that good at the back, and with a bit more creativity from midfield, we could have scored more.
If we had gleaned Stu's six points from the last two games,(I also thought we would win both games) we would now be ninth in the table.

By Stu on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 07:34 pm: Edit

Geoff, that "they're only two wins behind us" statement falls flat on its face. As, that could be said of any team in the division, thus we're only 5 points off 4th place.

Also, I predict straight defeats to Millwall, Wendy and Derby. As that will surely result in three wins after my comment that we'd be beat Bradford and Rovrum. Realistically, Millwall are in turmoil seemingly, Wendy at home might be different as we'll have 4 stands and I hope we beat Derby as I was born there (see, I'm a Walsall fan that wasnt even born here) and I'd like to beat them.

By Geoff Whiting on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 08:11 pm: Edit

Pelsall Saddler, I thought we'd lose both games, and said so on this board.

Against Bradford we wouldn't have scored if we'd played through to Sunday night, it was however a real surprise that Bradford managed a goal either !

Last night our peformance didn't deserve that defeat, but a few seconds of lapses by a usually reasonably sound defence handed the initiative to Rotherham. The first goal was a total fluke anyway, a clearance rebounded off one of our players to Byfield for a toe poke past Wakker. Hardly a well constructed goal by the Rotherham side was it, but it set them on their way. Then having clawed our way back from 3-1 to 3-3 (as I thought we would the way we were playing) it was Walsall who looked the likely winners until that one more moment of madness by Zigor !

So according to you, what makes an outstanding performance, apparently, is pulling shirts, diving, and climbing all over our defenders. Sorry I thought they were all the things that the Ref. should have booked him for on numerous occasions, and should therefore have resulted in a sending off by the time he reached two yellows, which wouldn't have taken more than 15 minutes, but the Ref. handed the game to Rotherham by ignoring his dirty tactics, while pulling up the game for every other petty reason he could think come up with !

Sorry, but I don't share your enthusiasm for Lee and I don't want to see players that perform that way. My view is simply that shirt-pulling is not part of the game of football and, far from being applauded like this, it should bring an immediate booking and a sending off for a second offence ! It's against the rules of the game, it's ungentlemanly conduct at best and violent conduct at worst, and it needs wiping out of the game.

Diving is cheating and is also ungentlemanly conduct, and it's also against the rules.

I accept that climbing all over other players is bound to happen in a competitive situation without it necessarily being illegal, violent or whatever, but the other two things you praise Lee for do not belong anywhere in the game. The sooner they're stamped out, the better the game of football will be !

You are right that Byfield's goals were handed to him on a plate, one as described above, and that's true about most of the goals he scored for us, mainly toe pokes, and not that many of them anyway. You're also right that Rotherham weren't that good at the back, that's why at 3-1 down I said to my son that we would get back into it the way we were playing, and we did just that !

Shame about "Suicide" Zigor committing his usual b*lls-up, but he ALWAYS manages at least one of those in a game, and it certainly cost us dear last night. OK, you can't blame the defeat all on Zigor, other defenders were responsible for the other three goals, but Zigor's was the most crucial simply because of the timing, when we were looking well capable of going on to win the game.

God it hurt last night, I was SO angry ! Still am, but I've had time to cool down a bit.

By Geoff Whiting on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 08:16 pm: Edit

I know, Stu, the table can be turned inside out and nearly upside down with changes in fortune for a few clubs. But as long as the change in fortune is for us - that'll be great that's all I want to see !

Just keep on with your Greavsie predictions, even go for a Murray Walker if you like, things might get better that way.

I predict ........ I'm going for a drink tonight !

Cheers Stu !

By Jorge14 on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 08:38 pm: Edit

Why are people all of a sudden so eager to drop Walker?

I heard it on the radio, I've heard it on the terraces (ok, the stands) and now I've heard it on the net. If it wasn't for Jimmy Walker, we wouldn't be in as good a place as we are now. First of all, in 1998/99 i doubt we would have gone up without Jim and before then and since he has consistently been the best player at the club without doubt. Without him I seriously doubt without Wacka we would be in such a good position compared to when he joined the club. He is probably the best keeper we've ever had at the club (apart from super Mick Kearns) and although Ward is a good keeper, I doubt he is better than Walker and we'd just end up with a Carl Emberson situation again.

By Geoff Whiting on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 09:24 pm: Edit

Agreed Jorge 14,

I don't think Wakker can be blamed for the goals we've conceded lately.

And if the attack had done their job (last night excepted of course) the goals he has conceded wouldn't have had such serious consequences.

Last night is still fresh in the mind, and I don't recall feeling any of those goals were down to Wakker in ANY way - does anyone think different ?

Wakker's standards have rarely dropped throughout his time with us, as far as I can recall, he's been a rock. His only fault that I can think of is a tendency to stay a bit too far off his line, leaving him vulnerable to long range "dippers" - he's let in a few of those - but they don't come along too often !

By Pelsall Saddler on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 09:29 pm: Edit

Geoff, I didn't say Lee's performance was pretty, or that I particularly like that style of play, but it was bloody effective. He was a constant threat, and I wish we had such an aggressive striker. He leads the line well, holds the ball up superbly, and brings other players into the game. Can this be said of Jorge Leitao? He is far to easily muscled out of the way by

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