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Bradford (h) - League - 14th September 2002

Reports and reaction from the 2002-03 season as Walsall finished 17th in Division 1
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Bradford (h) - League - 14th September 2002

Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:08 pm

Walsall 0 Bradford 1

Walker , Aranalde , Carbon , Hay , Corica , Sonner , O'Connor , Leitao (Junior 69) , Wrack , Bazeley , Zdrilic

Bradford bounced back from their midweek Worthington Cup defeat at Wrexham as Andy Gray's second-half goal proved enough to beat Walsall at the Bescot Stadium.

The Bantams returned to winning ways thanks to Gray's 53rd-minute strike.

A three-man move involving Ashley Ward and Michael Proctor ended with the Gray side-footing the ball past Walsall goalkeeper James Walker for his second goal of the season.

The Saddlers made a bright start and dominated the opening 10 minutes but wasted several corners before Ward went close for the visitors with a close-range header which was saved by Walker.

Colin Lee's men continued to look lively but David Zdrilic and Jorge Leitao were both denied by Bradford keeper Aidan Davison.

Paul Evans then tested Walker with a free-kick after Cadamarteri was fouled by Walsall captain Martin O'Connor, who shrugged off a hamstring strain to retain his place in the side.

Bradford, who handed a debut to on-loan Liverpool youngster Stephen Warnock, took the lead against the run of play and then looked happy to sit back and defend their advantage.

Walsall pressed forward in search of a leveller but Jorge Leitao's left-foot shot was saved by Davison, who also did well to deny Zdrilic

Lee made a double substitution with 10 minutes remaining, throwing on Gary Birch and Pedro Matias in place of Zdrilic and Danny Sonner, but to no avail.

The home side piled forward in the closing stages and forced four corners in injury-time but resolute defending allowed the Bantams to hang on.
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By belgian saddler on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 04:25 pm: Edit

at least we sound like we played better but still left with the feeling of wondering where the next point and goal is coming from. did we look likely to score? what`s the answer? sod this i`m off to the pub!

By J on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 04:50 pm: Edit

We were shite. Jorge scuffed a great chance at 1-0 down and that was about all we had, apart from Zigor 40 yard wonder strike early on. Sonner is cack and not an improvment on Keates, Bennett and Simpson. No one played particulary well, dunno what formation we're playing half the time. Why no Herrivelto? Why no Rodriquez? If we're paying them they might as well play

By belgian saddler on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 05:30 pm: Edit

as good as that eh?

By veryashamedtobeasadller on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 06:21 pm: Edit

I'm ashamed to be a Saddler tonight.

I can't believe that that barclays who sat amongst us today continually singing about the Bradford fire, and any other song with fire in it he could think of, wasn't lynched!!!!!

What appalled me more was that most of the Saddlers in the Sharp stand were laughing at what this poisonous excuse for a football supporter was singing!!

We should all be hanging our heads in shame tonight - this idiot has made the supporters of this club look so, so bad.

I'm now waitng for the barrage of messages in support of this clown or claiming you didn't know what he was singing or couldn't quite hear him. If anyone dares to post to this effect they are worse than the t*sser doing the singing.

If you were sat in the Sharp stand today and let this go on you don't deserve to call yourself a Saddler.

By Geoff Whiting on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 06:44 pm: Edit

This is all getting boringly predictable. At half-time I messaged my son (he missed the match as he had to be in London today) to say we were the better side but the attack was powder-puff again and although they'd had no chances, another 1-0 or 2-0 defeat looked on the cards. Deja-vu kind of thing really, you could sense it coming. Every team will get a chance or two during the course of a game, and so it turned out.

What goes and happens ?!! One piece of junk defending, one-chance, one more crazy goal against, one more defeat, one more six-pointer just thrown away, one relegation fight comimg up, and as belgian saddler has already said, and he summed it up perfectly, no sign of where the next goal or point is comimg from.

As usual, the defence was mostly solid today, except for that one disaster; trouble is, that's all it takes to condemn us to defeat, 'cos right now we couldn't score in a brothel.
Zigor had, I think, the only really decent shot, which was early on from about 35 yards out.
Bazeley had several promising runs, but each time his lack of close control caused him to let the ball get away from him as he closed in on the box.
Martin looked a shadow of what we expect from him.
Sonner was busy but did nothing.
Wrack ditto.
Zdrilic ditto.
Corica again busy, but created little, can't be expected to win the high balls we're pumping in towards him, and neither can Jorge, he's totally lost any ability to get up for a high ball.
Jorge generally too slow as usual, missed sitters with our only couple of real chances. Turned on one good chance second-half and shot tamely into the goalie's hands.
Junior was lively when he came on, but it's embarrassing to see the lengths he goes to just to keep the ball on his left peg, he's going to change nothing for us. I think Harry's a better bet than Junior, similar style but he can use both feet when trying to beat a player.
Mathias, not given enough time to get into the game, I was crying out for CL to change the team with more than 30 minutes to go - what did Pedro get, 7 minutes was it ?
Birch also had no time to do anything, not that I would have expected much from him anyway.

Who've I missed out? God i'm too p****d off to go back and check.

So, another six pointer coming up on Tuesday, and on recent matches Rotherham will be a much harder proposition than Bradford were today, so I can only see another bad night for us.

Sorry lads, this is all very negative, but I don't honestly see any positives on the horizon. Perhaps just one, FITZROY, but are we going to stand by and let him go ?

How depressing is this ? Another weekend ruined !

Right now I think I wish my dad hadn't taken me to my first Fellows Park match in about 1955, and I told him so today - but as he's now 83 I didn't deck him !

By Geoff Whiting on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 06:51 pm: Edit

Dear veryashamedtobeasaddler

My seat is in the HL Fellows stand down in front of the Bonser Suite towards the new stand - I didn't hear anything of this idiot and I don't thimk any of us in our area could hear him at all, there was certainly no comment around us.

From what you've said, this guy needs stringing up, and what the hell were the stewards doing, nothing I suppose as usual.

I'm not ashamed to be a Saddler, this guy is surely one out on his own and we shouldn't be tarred with the same brush as him, but I do completely condemn what he did based on your above comments.

He should have been chucked out, and never ever allowed back in.

By Moaning Saddler on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 07:01 pm: Edit

Can't be arsed to post a match report today - everything that happened today also happened in the games against Reading and Watford.
No goals, no points again - although I suppose no bookings is an unusual bonus.
3 home defeats - all firing blanks - out of 4 is a pathetic statistic.
The worrying thing is that we keep making the same mistakes again and again.
Clueless stuff, Lee.

By Ludwig Von Beethoven on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 07:55 pm: Edit

I was in the Sharp today and I couldn't hear him. I wasn't aware of him singing. I agree with the comments of above on this subject though.

By Oliver L on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 07:58 pm: Edit

I decided not to bother today after Tuesdays cock-ups. Glad I didnt go. Seems like another 800 felt the same way. We have now lost near on 1400 home fans in just 4 matches, lets hope they return soon. I will be back for the SWFC game.

By cannock on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 08:01 pm: Edit

Cant be bothered to put words together for another defeat.

3 games, 3 defeats, nil points and nil goals says it all really.

Forthcoming attractions :

Exit M1 junction 16 onto the A45 and continue until you reach a retail park with a "football stadium". 'Triffic

Alternatively

Exit M40 Junction 4 onto A4010. Drive round a bit until you get to a dead end where you will find the venue. Cant wait

peed off

By Alan on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 09:42 pm: Edit

Notice to anyone of a nervous disposition:

Don't go to Saddlers.co.uk and read Colin's after match comments.

How he can be happy with that performance is beyond me. Yes we had a lot of of the ball, but what did we do with it? Did the keeper have a difficult save to make?

Apparently the passing was good - he can't be talking about the final pass, because that was awful every time we got near their goal.

Still, I suppose it can only get better, can't it???

By Geoff Whiting on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 12:29 am: Edit

Alan, you think it can only get better, but your question-marks demonstrate the same doubt that I have myself !

Well, will it get better ? In my view, not necessarily, it has been getting worse, and may continue to do so.

What I find VERY worrying is that we have dominated the early part of the Reading game before surrendering 2-0 to a really average team, then we have dominated MOST of the Watford game and managed to surrender to another 2-0 defeat against inferior opposition, and now today we've dominated 90% or more of the game and still somehow managed to lose 1-0 to a very average Bradford side.

I'd like to know, but am fearful to find out, what the hell happens when we play a decent side ?

I know it's early days, people will probably say there's loads of time to sort it out etc., but make no mistake, we've just thrown away THREE consecutive potential SIX POINTERS - all of these teams will probably be down with us in the lower reaches of Div. 1 - we could not afford to lose these games but now ir's too late, we HAVE lost them, worse than that WE'VE GIVEN THEM AWAY !.

Where we go from here God only knows - sorry to be a pessimist, but I see only one outcome ahead of us, I just hope I'm wrong !

By Warsawsaddler on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:42 am: Edit

The problem is the obsession with Corica. It is true that he plays best just behind the front two (or one) but insisting on it puts the rest of the side out of balance. In practice it means we cant play wingers so Herivelto and Pedro are out of contention. Wrack gets used a spare man to make up the midfield so he is always on his wrong foot. The lack of wingers and the constant changes of formation mean Zigor and Bazely dont know when to come forward and we are often left exposed. For corners Wrack becomes a defender. The congested midfield means O Connor cant spread the ball around which is the strongest part of his game. The lack of wingers means whoever is up front too gets little service.

Corica should play either as a right winger or as a midfielder or a conventional forward. He looks great in the free role but it has a diabolical effect on the team selection and heads start dropping because players are either out of position or dont know what their position is.

By Geordiesaddler on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:56 am: Edit

Nil-nil half-time
Then Dreadful Sky Sports news
Wife sighed, cat meowed.

By DaZZER on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 10:01 am: Edit

As every match goes by Calamity Colin reminds me more and more of the nightmare that was John Barn*&£l. Barney also had players other Saddlers managers would have killed for and did naff all with them (except send us plummeting down twice).
Others around me are also waking up to the fact that a merrington-less Lee appears pretty clueless. I know I'm currently in the minority but give it another month. Time to go Colin

By esso on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 10:01 am: Edit

Dear Veryashamed etc. You sir are spot on, the man is braindead as were those who sat nearby smirking and did nothing.

Dear Geoff Whiting, You sir are very wrong, The man has been spoken to and my understanding is that he will be receiving a letter banning him from the stadium. Your critisism of the stewards is totally out of order, and based on absolutely no knowledge.

By Dave Hawkes on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 11:13 am: Edit

Never went, glad I never, wont be going Tuesday either. Wish I had the motivation to go but I'd rather save me money than watch us throw away precious points.

Sat glued to the Goal Rush all afternoon, watching the scores tick over and over and over... I think we still wouldn't have scored if I was watching now.

From the sounds of it, this team is crying out for width. On the bench (or sometimes not even in the squad) we have Herivelto and Dani Rodrigues. Play them for Gods sake, especially Dani, or what was the point in signing him!

Can we just play Steve Corica in central midfield please. I'm sick of us building the team around him because it's not working. It's about time we stuck him in central midfield with Mart or Sonner, and about time Lee swallowed his pride and re-signed Simpson.

Even in the days of last Spring with Corica up front, we played 4 men in midfield. When Lee took over, he played it simple and went 4-4-2, played Jorge and Byfield and we played really well. Now he's going down the Graydon route, chopping and changing and it's doing us no good.

Wonder how much influence Merrington had on us, as we seem to be missing him a lot.

By Codsall Saddler on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 11:15 am: Edit

Confusion reigns because we weren't that bad - but then we weren't that good either. We had enough posession to have buried them but created little in the way of clear cut chances - how many saves did their keeper make? Some of the crossing from both flanks was abysmal. Agree with earlier post that Pedro should have been on sooner and had a go at their right back, who had already been booked. Corners and free-kicks were especially poor.

We now have the formation what CL wanted with the 4-3-1-2 that worked well last year. Think Corica is well worth his place - it's the 2 in front of him that are the problem. The obsession seems to be with Wrack, who contributed sod all that was constructive yesterday. If he's going to play, it has to be on the right. If Fitz isn't available, Pedro has to be worth a go.

For all Junior's left foot faults, at least he knows where the goal is and is prepared to have a go. We looked sharper and more dangerous with him and Birch. Jorge's confidence seems and shot and Driller works hard but never really threatened. We need to sort it very soon though as we are losing to low/mid table teams that we have to beat.

I'm rapidly going from Quietly Confident Saddler to It's gonna be a long hard winter Saddler.

PS I Notice that Psychopathic Bluenose Syndrome struck again as Tommy Mooney was sent off for stamping on his debut for Stoke.

By Frustrated G on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 12:06 pm: Edit

For the first time ever out of sheer frustration, I felt compelled to write to someone somewhere about the unbelievably inept performance I witnessed at the Bescot today.

How long can this go on!

My first question must be what formation were we actually playing. Every time I looked back we had changed from 3 to 4 and then 3 again at the back.

I am sure Zigor, who actually had a good game today overall ( the normal 1 or 2 errors in passing), didnt know whether to go forward or backwards. When he did go forwards no one was suppoting him down the left. Only when Pedro came on for the last 7 mins did we see decisive breaks down the left. I cannot believe C.L. can't see that these 2 interlink well down the left giving us a great option for Zigors left foot crosses.

Secondly Why are we playing the ball into a static front 2. Jorge seems to have lost the ability to run through the gaps in the defence onto a ball from midfield. Instead the only ball we are playing over the top or around the defence is the hoof from Carbon, Hay or Zigor from behind the halfway line. Which I may add he will either jump for and miss or jump for and try and act as if he was poleaxed by the defender. On the first I never saw him win 1 header today and on the second who is he trying to kid? The ref is clearly of the same opinion as the rest of us. Why would the defender foul him when he has not won a single ball and therefore does not pose a threat.( That and the fact the acting is so unconvincing it would be more suited to a play by Craig rather than William Shakespear). If we are going to play the ball on the floor to the static stricker it must be with a purpose. We are now sick of watching the ball being received to feet for the striker to try and beat 4 players to scuff an off balance shot at goal. What happened to give and go? It's been so long since we saw a sharp interchange between strikers we might as well hold an anniversery party for it. HAPPY 1-2 TO YOU.
Zdrilic and Birch both seem to be strong players, certainly not speed merchants. Let Junior or Jorge use them as the pivots for forward runs.

Whilst covering attacking It would be nice for us to see a corner that beats the first defender.

Lastly let me move to midfield and ask what are we doing? Darren Wrack Man or wind up toy. He seems to run about all over the shop from middle of the park, back, forward up the left and right. The trouble is what does he do? Wracky used to be devastating in the 2nd devision with his runs down the right. Now we seem to not know where to play him and a player without a focussed position will drift and he does. Overall The midfield needs to focus on moving forwards not relying on the pass back to the defence who hoof it upfield.

One final point which I cannot believe is the Managers comments on the game. Was he at the same match as me and the 4000 other very disappointed Saddlers fans? Can he not see what is happening out there Yes I admit we passed the ball around well. From Midfield to defence to Bradford. or from midfield to the right to the strikers standing in the middle to Bradford. Passing without penetration is just a waste of time and that is OK when youn are 2 or 3 goals up, but very frustrating for 4000 fans when you are 1-0 down!!!

By Julian Clary on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 12:13 pm: Edit

I always hate making a pass and not ending up with penetration.

By Geoff Whiting on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 12:30 pm: Edit

Dear esso. I'm glad to hear the guy is to be contacted by the club - so he should be.

But don't tell me my comments are based on no knowledge, sunshine, 'cos I sit in the HL Fellows and have to listen to loads of foul language most games, and to my definite knowledge the stewards NORMALLY do nothing, I usually have to have a word with these idiots myself.

So OK, on this particular occasion I may have been wrong, but I was basing my comments on the situation asI normally observe, mate !


By belgian saddler on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 01:48 pm: Edit

here here geoff, in my experience our stewards are not as bad as some in that they don`t usually physically attack and provoke people like some (bolton being thhe worst example i can think of) but they are to say the least inept and about as useful as addie in a slimming competition

By Stu on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 02:44 pm: Edit

Performance wasn't actually that bad to be honest. We played some good football only to be let down by either (A) the final ball or (B) the finishing.

I'd be more worried if we were also being played off the park to be honest. We're not, we're coping comfortably. This lack of goals is obviously playing on players minds and you could see that yesterday, players were a little scared of shooting. I've no doubt that problem will rectify itself quite soon.

Zdrillic had an impressive debut I thought, its refreshing to see the ball hit a striker and not come straight back at us. He held the ball up well and brought others into play, as well as not being scared to have a shot when the chance came.

My main worry yesterday was the lack of communication at times. It seemed as though players werent' talking to each other. Best example being Jorge's shot on the turn, it is up to players around him to let him know he has time on him. If he has his back to goal, you cant expect him to be aware of how much time he has. Where was the call?

Remember last time we played Rotherham we were also saying we couldn't score goals, we were 3-0 up after 30 mins! We've also only played 8 matches, so lets not worry. As stated, at least the performances are good. Its not as if we need to be working on every aspect of our game, just that final piece. We know where our problem is, thats better than having to work on everything we do.

By Stu on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 02:49 pm: Edit

Also, can CL add up?

He keeps saying we've scored less goals than anyone else in the division?

We've scored 6, but Grimsby have only scored 3! Last time I counted on my toes, 6 is more than 3. Okay, so we have the 2nd worst scoring record, its better than the worst.

Oh, and it really could be worse. We could be Mansfield fans, 28 goals conceded in 8 games this season. But, before we smile, they still have a higher average gate than ours!

By Geoff Whiting on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 03:12 pm: Edit

Cheers belgian saddler, I'm glad I'm not the only one that's noticed.
Seems like Esso hasn't been in my part of the ground, but then again I've perhaps not been in his either - I'm not having a go at you about this Esso - we all see different situations around the ground and have our different experiences - you didn't say in your post whether the stewards spoke to this guy during the game, or whether he was approached afterwards, but the original post on this subject certainly did not suggest that the stewards took any action at the time.
My interpretation of that post was that this cabbage-brained lunatic was allowed to carry on and on with his poisonous comments.
"Veryashamedtobeasaddler" says the guy was continuously singing about the Bradford fire and any other song he could think of with "fire" in it, so wouldn't anyone think, like me, that he was not stopped ! Whether by the stewards, police or anyone else, I think I was right to assume that no-one did actually intervene and stop him !
The question has to be - if not, why not ! In my opinion, going on what the original post said, this idiot could have inflamed the Bradford fans so much that a serious public order problem could have broken out.
The Bradford fire was one of the great football tragedies of our generation, but in it's aftermath clubs like ours have seen massive improvements in our football grounds, for which we should all be very thankful. However, this guy obviously doesn't see it that way - he thinks it's funny, something to take the p**s about - well hopefully he's in a minority of ONE !
The guy should have been immediately approached by stewards / police ( can't recall if we had police there yesterday ? ), taken into custody, his details taken there and then, and finally he should have been ejected from the ground, having been told in no uncertain terms that a permanent ban would result from this incident.
Esso - if you're telling us that this is what happened, fair enough. But you didn't really go into sufficient detail, though you did say he's going to be banned, which we should all be pleased about.
Now Esso, as it appears you have more information about this than most of us have, if you don't mind would you please enlighten us more fully of the facts rather than just raging at me, telling me I'm out of order, and accusing me of having no knowledge.
Many thanks.
Geoff.

P.S
Down in the HL Fellows / Gilbert Alsop corner, I always feel safe and secure when I'm getting my half-time nosh, 'cos that's where most of the stewards stand for most of the game. Save's me getting mugged for my meat & potato pie !

By Neil Ravenscroft on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 03:25 pm: Edit

Glad also to see the post from Stu, every word of which I agree with. I think the gloom and despondency yesterday was because it followed 2 league defeats. If it had been after 2 wins, it would have been "Ah well, it was one of those days". However, I still think that the question of how we accommodate Corica remains open.

By Geoff Whiting on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 03:26 pm: Edit

Stu,
1. I agree with you up to a point, BUT :
2. As a lad in the fifties, I was given a book for Christmas. I think it was written by a player named Derek Tapscott, who I think was a striker of the day. The title of the book was "It's goals that count"
3. We don't score enough (or any) of these things that count.
4. We aren't looking creative or making enough clear-cut chances to suggest we can rectify 3.
5. I AM worried.
6. I hope YOU are right ! BUT :
7. I don't see us winning on Tuesday

By William Rufus on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 03:33 pm: Edit

Stu, I thinks its wrong for you to comment on Zdrilic until he's played 10 games.

By Stu on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 04:59 pm: Edit

lol, sorry. I forgot that rule, it was just an initial opinion considering we saw him make his first start, as opposed to a "15 minutes to impress subs role".

By dave_hawkes on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 05:14 pm: Edit

I'm sure I read somewhere that Don Goodman's girlfiend of the time died in that fire.

Now where did I read that... ah, here - http://www.oxfordstudent.com/01tt07/sport/8/

I wouldn't put it past supporters our our club to be so foolish. Remember the tosser who got banned from the Bescot for racially abusing Kevin Harper a few years back?

The plus point from the three defeats I suppose is the fact that the defence is not getting ripped apart. Then again, we were only playing Watford, Reading and Bradford. We need to score early goals I think to settle the nerves, then maybe we will start playing with more confidence.

The thing that worries me is that Colin Lee has said ever since last March that we need to score more goals, but doesn't seem to have any clues as to how to improve this. I suppose after Tuesday's game we will see just what Lee and this side is really made of. If we lose on Tuesday I will start to worry, even if it is early days.

Last September was a terrible month for us under Graydon and it could have been the month that in the end sent us down (poor results, lost confidence, ideas down the pan) so lets hope we come through this month with at least 4 more points.

By Stu on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 06:15 pm: Edit

He has said we need a 15-20 goal a season striker. He thought Jorge was the answer but Jorge seems to lack the self belief at this level. Zdrillic isnt a 20 goal a season striker, but holds a ball up and brings other players into play (if Saturday is 'owt to go by) and would be a good foil for a goalscorer.
Junior is yet to convince me on the basis of Reading, Watford and Bradford. I don't see much in him as of yet, but he'll need time.

Lee was saying how good Bob Taylor was in Saturday's Sports Argus, but that was in the 'holds the ball up, brings players into play' comment. And I think Zdrillic will do that.

Shame really that Millwall signed Kevin Davies on loan and Stoke signed Tommy Mooney on loan, both are proven goalscorers at this level. Maybe we should look to a short term loan deal just to get us out of this hole. A few goals will take the pressure of the team and may help us find a scoring touch again.

By Neil Ravenscroft on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 06:32 pm: Edit

The problem with Mooney was shown on Saturday though, sent off on his debut! It obviously depends on the budget, although more Premiership clubs seem willing to help out with a wage contribution. Like the look of Stefan Moore at Villa, but that's not likely, as he scored on Saturday.

By aravinda singh on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:05 pm: Edit

cheer up guys!!!
Look at the game in perspective NOT frustration

We were the better side, BUT alas no rewards!! Bradfords had some luck in the past month and it continued again yesterday!!

I think Mr lee has to get a better formation happening... we need a winger/crosser to pull the play wide . I was impressed with Zdrilics debut , we need to use him as a target man and get Jorge/Junior.. running off him.

I think with a few more starts Zdrilic will prove his worth

I agree with Dave Hawkes..the guys miss Dave Merrington..big time!!

By dave_hawkes on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 08:26 pm: Edit

I read in today's Guardian (in the Tales from the Tabs section) that we had taken a former Villa youngster on trail, although his name escapes me now. Never heard of him, and it could be a mistake on their behalf.

Also a good interview with Lee Sharpe in there today. Released by Exeter now. Reckons that twerp Richmond used to pick the team up at Bradford in the days on Chris Hutchings, which is why he left there.

Never got the luck with gaffers. Wilko sacked after he was signed by Leeds, and Platt sacked at Sampdoria. Reckon he would have done well if Pompey had signed him, although Rix got the boot too.

Bet he could still do it at this level, and we still need a left winger I think! Sounds like he'll be going abroad in the New Year though, and he is only 31 I believe. What a waste of a superb talent.

http://www.thewalsallweb.cjb.com

By Stu on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:37 pm: Edit

In all fairness, if he could do it at this level then why isnt he here? Even Grimsby rejected him!

The point on Merrington is spot on, he had that infectious enthusiasm. Something that Houston doesn't seem to provide, but, we've just got to get on with things at the moment.

By Steward on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 09:44 pm: Edit

I was the steward who finally told the bald gobshite that he was out of order for his renditition of Bradfords burning.He said he didn't think he was doing anything wrong as he hadn't used any swear words.He likes to have a laugh and wind people up and sometimes can be really funny.He obviously needs to take a good look at himself if he thought he was being funny on saturday.When I pointed out that he was offending people and was being observed by the four police officers in the corner he left the stadium,the time was a couple of minutes after 4:30.Whether he comes back or not i couldn't care less and if he is refused entry to the stadium in future or not I have no control over so all I can say is give him a wide berth.On the point of policing,two of the officers on saturday were from Bradford and the other two were locals.It was not deemed neccesary to have any more in attendance.This is a credit to the supporters of both clubs that only the spotters were needed.

By Esso on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 10:02 pm: Edit

Geoff Whiting, my comment about you having no knowledge referred to the incident in the Sharp Stand, I was trying to say that someone sitting in the HL Fellows could have little knowledge about what went on in the Sharp, I obviously did not make myself clear. Apologies for that. I have no doubt that what you speak of taking place in your area of the stadium is accurate. I do have some sympathy with the stewards in respect of bad language however, if they ejected everyone who used bad language I suspect there would be more stewards than crowd at many games. I was a steward for a while at Arsenal until I moved to the midlands (and grew to old) and our instructions there were to act on complaints from spectators or if the language was so bad act without complaint after giving a warning. In the case in point I am informed that the man singing the songs was spoken to during the game about his bad language and as a result of that moved further towards the back of the stand in an effort to lose himself amongst other supporters, I may be wrong but it was not until later that "the penny dropped" with the steward involved as to the nature of the songs he was singing and he was spoken to again and left the ground. Please do not think I am having a go but stewards are a very easy target and I know from experience albeit some years ago that stewards tend to get the flack for everything that supporters don't like from the way someone is playing to the price of hotdogs, neither of which is anything to do with them. I accept that the stewards are not perfect but it is a thankless task.

By esso on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 10:16 pm: Edit

just looked on the Bradford City website----its contains an apology from Walsall FC for the disrespect shown to them by the lunatic who sang the songs and also indicates that he is to be banned by Walsall. Seems like a proper outcome to me.

By Geoff Whiting on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 12:20 am: Edit

Cheers for that Esso, apologies accepted, and I'm sorry too if I've offended you by going on about it a bit ! Isn't it funny how Walsall FC and these message boards can get us so wound up ?

Anyway, your post clears up my questions nicely, thank you very much for that.

In the circumstances Bradford fans fully deserve the apology, and I'm glad they've been given it via the Web. A more open apology, perhaps in the press, wouldn't come amiss either, then this stupid pillock might start to realise the harm his big mouth has probably done. I wonder what sort of reception our totally innocent fans will receive when they visit Bradford later in the season; if they're given a bad time, it's probably all down to this loud-mouthed s**t for brains ! Let's hope he reads these comments of ours and thinks about the damage he's done.

It's just a pity that the loudmouth himself can't be forced to take responsibility, and do his own apologising to the Bradford fans.

At least it seems the fact that he's being banned is confirmed, and Bradford have been told of it. That's probably the most we can do to him, unfortunately !

Anyway, Esso, what's also important is that we're on the same side, that's for sure, along with the majority of proper football fans, Saddlers or otherwise.

Cheers for now.

By Geoff Whiting on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 12:27 am: Edit

Oh something else I just thought of.

Esso can you post the Bradford website address here if you don't mind, please, I'd like to take a look for myself and add a few comments of my own.

Also, Steward, thanks for your info. too, it's very helpful to understand the situation from the sharp end - sorry, that's not meant to be a pun - I'm not referring to the William Sharp end - even though in the Saddlers case it fits - I'm sure you know what I'm trying to say !

At the end of the day, as long as we get to the right outcome, things should be OK

Cheers guys, it's late, it's Monday in the morning, I'm ready for bed, g'nite !

By JPD on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 03:16 am: Edit

I don't think anyone's mentioned the attendance.
How can you support 1st Div footie on a crowd like that?
Football is simple.
Man U have very few natural, good quality strikers at the moment therefore they will struggle.
Arsenal and Liverpool have lots of natural, good quality stikers at the moment therefore they will do well.
The rule applies to all levels.
Fill in the gaps:
Walsall have .... natural, good quality strikers at the moment therefore they will ....

By Gaylord Fokker on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 06:15 am: Edit

Is the answer "walsall have NO natural good quality strikers at the moment and therefore they will SIGN SOME MORE DODGY FOREIGNERS LIKE ALWAYS"

Well, am I right?

By esso on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 06:59 am: Edit

Geoff, Got to the site through "askjeeves" as all the usual format of addresses I tried didn't work.when you get to the website via the search engine they ask you to register but if you don't want to the first page shows an entry referring to the incident at Bescot on Saturday. If you require more detail them I presume you have to register.

By Stu on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 07:36 am: Edit

JPD - Glad to see you said it, if I had I'd have been accused of downsizing the club. 4600 was embarrassing and I think Tuesday will be even less to be honest.

The bloke sitting behind me made a comment that he knew people that were staying away until the terracing was re-opened. Does this mean that these people won't be coming as of next season? Thus, they'd obviously prefer watching 2nd division football where they could stand than 1st division football where they could sit! I put that to him and he couldn't offer any response.

I looked at the average attendances for the Nationwide this season. We're 23rd in Division 1 (thanks to Wimbledon), 20th in Division 2 and only 4th in Division 3. Pathetic. Even when the useless marketing side of the club slash the prices, as they did for buying a Bradford & Rotherham ticket, the people don't support the club.

I think we averaged about 6600 last season, for a guess, say that on average an away team contributed 1200-1500, that means we had about 5100-5400 fans on average. Take the 500 fans from Bradford off Saturdays attendance, and thats a 4100 attendance and about 1000-1300 missing fans from last season.

By Mal on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 08:18 am: Edit

Again I am late to the board but one or two things that annoy me is the apathy expressed. This is on of the reasons why we get crap crowds when apparent real fans don't go and say there glad they didn't. I for one don't understand that, being a fan is about the rough and the smooth such that when you taste the days of success it is even sweeter. OK if your'e skint but being a fan is for life bit like a dog so I'm afraid if you have been blessed or cursed with being a Saddler you sort of get used to it, remember Wheldon, Ramsden, Barnwell then think Graydon, Cardiff and Sheff Utd away.

Anyway onto the match, pretty workmanlike performance just a couple of things to add to the comments above. Steve Froggat talked about loyalty on WM and this conformed my thoughts. We have played 9 games now and Jorge, Corica, Pedro and to a lesser extent Bazeley have been dissapointing. Colin obviously doesn't rate Harry as per Shrewsbury, Dani's had 10 minutes, Wright dropped completely and Birch played wide.

I have said this over the past couple of weeks, he needs to shake it up to try and bring back some spark. Jorge & Corica need dropping to the reserves for confidence and fitness. Pedro needs paying up, bring back some pace and width from the start of the bench and get solid again.

Positives from Saturday, Zdrillic worked his socks off good in the air, first touch excellent and held the ball up, Carbon & Hay were sound, Zigor never hides inspite of what people think and for displays 110% passion and commitment. As for the others pretty much of a muchness.

Rotherham is now more important however I can't see them beating us and expect a convincing win, onwards to 10 points and a brighter outlook

By Neil Ravenscroft on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 08:36 am: Edit

Jorge does look short on confidence, but I think the problem with Corica might be the injury. Doesn't change the point of your arguement, though.

I too thought Dzrillic was one big positive on Saturday. He looks a good foil for a goal scorer, all we've got to do is find one!

By Geoff Whiting on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 08:41 am: Edit

Esso, thanks for that, I'll get to the Bradford site as you have suggested.

On the subject of crowd size, guys, I agree it's an embarrassment. The new stand is looking great, but if this crowd situation continues, the ground is going to look like a ghost town when it's fully open.

It's impossible right now to know how the fans will choose to distribute themselves around the various areas of the ground, or to picture how it's going to look, but it's sure going to be looking thin. That in itself will not be good for the atmosphere, which obviously affects the players as well as the fans.

On reflection, I wonder if the lack of any crowd behind the GA goal is having an effect on our players, I've not seen it mentioned before. That is traditionally the home end obviously, where most of the atmosphere seems to be generated, so maybe that's a factor in our poor (non-existent) goal-scoring record.

Just a thought, may be totally irrelevant.

Stu, your theory about fans staying away because they can't stand to watch the game - I made this point a couple of weeks ago and I'm sure it's right - but as you say, if they won't accept sitting down, they'd presumably rather we went back to Div 2 and retain the standing terrace than be where we are and go all-seater as the regulations require. The question you put to that bloke seems to have stumped him - maybe it's a point that needs to be publicised more so that people think about it a bit more logically. They're probably not looking at it this way at the moment. Maybe if they can see the error in their thinking, some of them might think again and decide to come back.

By Esso on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 09:02 am: Edit

Geoff, website address http://www.bradfordcityfc.co.uk. Dont understand why it didnt work for me.

By jen cox on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 09:14 am: Edit

My family and I went to bescot market yesterday and we saw some of the team training, we don't know if all of the team were there as we couldn't see enough of the pitch.

By Neil Ravenscroft on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 10:33 am: Edit

Geoff's got a reasonable point there. We were talking on Saturday about the poor record in general that teams have had in the past when playing on three sided grounds.

By Geoff Whiting on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 10:42 am: Edit

Esso, thanks again, I'll log on to Bradford later when I get back from a meeting

And Neil, great minds think alike !

Cheers

By dave_hawkes on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 02:49 pm: Edit

If we played well then the fans would come back I would imagine. Obviously it's a bit wierd that so many fans have stayed away, but what do you expect? 3 home defeats out of 4 matches, and just 2 goals scored at home. Hardly likely to attract big crowds is it...

By Away on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 03:13 pm: Edit

Stu, dont try to be a clever effer again. U claimed we only take 300 away. Your words not mine. Give me one example of a sub 400 following this year. U really do c yourself as a clever arse dont u?

By Not Stu on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 03:16 pm: Edit

St. Blazey

By popperpancake on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 03:42 pm: Edit

Don't worry....we'll be ok. Anyway, byfield. Seems from something i read in the sunday papers that dazza isn't going down too well with the RUFC fans at the moment. Ronnie Moore (or sir ronnie to some members of this board who believe he has acted with honour when he demanded money to spend or he'd resign....incidentally something he repeated in the summer and got nowhere with....he's still there tho i notice) has been pleading with the "boo-boys" to lay off him or he'll go the same way as Watson (now at Reading) who was forced out afta his family was attacked outside the ground! Assume Byfield won't be in the side 2moro. Interesting to see it's not just our fans who have mindless paranoia about certain players.

By Whalley Resign Now on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 05:32 pm: Edit

Dear Away, in the last twelve months how about Norwich (about 120) Gillingham (about 140) Portsmouth (250ish) and I would say Sheff Utd, Watford this year, plus Burnley & Man City last year were about 300, or maybe a few more, but not many. Millwall was 280 or thereabouts if I remember. Weren't many at Wimbledon on a tuesday, either. Perhaps 300 ish or 400 ish at Palace.
A lot of regular faces aren't seen anymore, not outside the midlands anyway.
The club have done very little to build support and are now reaping the whirlwind.
P!ss poor support, but they have only themselves to blame.
Dave Hawkes is only partly correct in saying performances decide attendances. The club could do a lot more to attract fans and, as important, keep them. We are playing two divisions higher than a few years ago, but the crowds haven't increased as much as they should have done, (especially if you knock off the away attendance) because the club haven't worked hard enough at it.

By Stu on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 05:42 pm: Edit

Thanks Whalley Resign Now, whoever you are. That helps make my point quite nicely.

Although, I have to hold my hands up and say my 'guess-timations' are about 100 out as apparently we took 400 to Sheff Utd, 490 to Brighton and 515 to Watford. I predicted about 300, 350-400 and 450 respectively for each of those games.

But I think my point was pretty much proved when only 4600 turned up at Bescot on Saturday. Pretty funny if I weren't a Walsall fan to be honest. Our attendances would only be ranked 20th in Division 2!

And "Away", I did say there were my guess-timations. And if you think 400 fans for our first "Saturday" away game of the season just a 90minute drive away is good, then you obviously don't set your standards to high. As I think 400 is pretty lousy to be hobnest. Even Mansfield have a higher average attendance than us, and they're rock bottom of Division 2 having conceded 28 goals in 8 league games!

By Stu on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 05:46 pm: Edit

Oh, and I forgot.

I dont think I'm a clever arse, I'm better looking than that... (Sorry, you walked into a comment like that!) I'm just a little sarcy sometimes, its my sense of humour.

By dave_hawkes on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 06:01 pm: Edit

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that our shite crowds are purely down to shite performances, just that it is the most obvious reason. I know a guy who was a season ticket holder last season but only he's only been very rarely this season. I mean, a floating fan will have saved himself around 60 quid this season, and what has he missed? 2 goals in 360 minutes of home league football. It's not like we've even played anyone 'big' in the process apart from Ipswich, and we've still lost 3 times.

Sort out the stuff on the pitch first, and then we can look at new ways of getting fans back, but no matter how many promotional stuff you offer, if the football is crap, they wont come.

Although obviously the shambles against Shrews should never be repeated, and Whalley should have admitted the club were in the wrong there. Fair enough, we had a week to buy tickets, but you cant blame people for turning up on the day of the game when an hour before KO you were begging them to come down can you KRW.

And can we not mention 'kids for a quid' on here because that's all I've been hearing all day. It only costs the kids £4 as it is, and a family ticket is only about a tenner. Hardly breaking the bank is it.

Soz if that sounds like a shitty moan, I've just seen the Bradford goal on the news, and couldn't read the story on the official Bradford site about Walsall apologising to them because it appears to be members only on there. Ridiculous.

By boris is back on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 06:19 pm: Edit

i've only been to the reading game so far, and while it was not great, had we taken our chances we would have won.

it would seem that could apply to the latest two defeats as well.

i think people are panicking a bit too much and too early - and too many of you moan when you actually haven't been to the game in question - incredible !

have some faith - i get deja vue here. last season you all had us relegated and look what happened. i was telling you then to "chill".

so chill baby, chill.

By belgian saddler on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 08:30 pm: Edit

been on the glue again boris? agree with what you say though. i was sure i had some bostik here somewhere....................

By Mal on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 08:09 am: Edit

It's pretty irrelevant to base an opinion of our support pureley based on performances on the pitch. It goes a lot deeper than that as we have all discussed before.

While I agree that it is an attraction why during two promotion years did we still not fill the ground ? You have to look at other factors. In my years as a fan and supporter the biggest factor has always been the little club syndrome. Questions like 'Why support Walsall when Villa are in the Premiership' or as for the youngster this season you now have WBA and Blues.

I can only talk about my reasons but my first ever footie shirt was Liverpool post 77 European Cup Win. My heroes back then but thats because all you ever saw were L'pool, Leeds, Derby etc so you went with favourites that were national. As you get a little older there are family and friends who influence so you could quite easily be a Dingle as a Blue Nose.

It is not a simple question or solution but one which can only be for the long term. The family stand has been a great success and needs to be continued and developed. We should use the blocks near the away end on the HL Fellows side as there nearly always empty, and for the same price.

There needs to be better marketing as GeordieSaddler has expressed hundreds of times, we should have greater advertising, why not use one of the boards facing the M6, or put up another.

Issues like ticketing, merchandise not available, supporter apathy to change is not helping. This is a result of poor customer focus by the club and has built up over years. None of us want to see the new stand be a white elephant but I get the feeling that when open you will see the stay aways come back.

The question is what happens when all seater ? Mr Bonser sort out the marketing, let Whalley do what he is good at and not speak to the public, and employ staff who know how to get the punters in, posters in town, in Brum, on buses, in the E&S, Mail etc. This costs money but equates to long term gain for me.

Rant over

By Geordiesaddler on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 09:11 am: Edit

Setting off for tonight's game shortly in an attempt to steal a march on the Rotherham fans who could easilly paralyse the transport network of middle England should they all leave the factory at the same time. Also aiming to catch the club shop and buy a ticket, so as to actually spend some time in the boozer before the game unlike last week. Always dreamt of having to behave like this just to be able to get in the game before kick-off, really feel like we've arrived as a big club now. It's like the Rome Derby, live aid, Woodstock, all rolled into one. All I want now is a goal, and then with my heart singing to make it off the car-park in-time for last orders. I humbley thank the directors and employees of WFC in advance of what I hope will be a truely memorable evening.

By R. Whalley Esq, Walsall FC PLC LTD Co. on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 09:14 am: Edit

That's more like it. We knew you'd fall into line eventually.

By Berkshiresaddler on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 09:38 am: Edit

I was having an argument in the pub the other day. Did Walsall ever play at Wembley? I believe that they did - was it a play off or an Auto Windscreen final? I can't be certain as I was living abroad for most of the 1980's and early 1990's. Could someone help me please?

By Stu on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 09:59 am: Edit

No, I wish we had. Our Play Off Final against Bristol City in 88/89 (or was it 87/88, cant remember) was played over two legs as it was the year after that Wembley was used. Our next Play Off Final was the glorious day at Cardiff, the year after Wembley had stopped being used. And we've never made the final of the Auto Two Bob Cup, only the area final, twice on the trot losing to Bournemouth and Millwall.

By Geoff Whiting on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 10:15 am: Edit

Stu,

Perhaps we should start calling you "StatisticalStu".

I confirm we've never played at Wembley, we'd have made a mess of the ticketing arrangements anyway so it's perhaps just as well !

By Neil Ravenscroft on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 10:17 am: Edit

Came close twice - in the League Cup, losing to Liverpool in the semi - and in one of the World War 2 Cup competitions, losing in the semi.

By Tim Wilkes on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 11:08 am: Edit

I can confirm that about 5 years ago, we beat Torquay Utd at Wembley in The Wilkes Household Super Striker World Cup.

For added realism, I made my opponent queue outside my front door for an hour, sold him warm Hoffmeister lager at £3.00 for a plastic bottle, and made sure that the loo was awash with other peoples urine.

By phil g. on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 12:08 pm: Edit

BTW, How did you manage to make your toilet awash with other people's urine?

By phil g. on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 12:09 pm: Edit

Steve Roy, your clock is an hour slow.

By Tim Wilkes on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 12:15 pm: Edit

OK....that bit was just poetic license.

By Stu on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 01:56 pm: Edit

We've seen that CL has said we need a target man from comments in Saturdays Sports Argus and Teamtalk is reporting similar today. It so happens that Wolves appear to be willing to part with George Ndah. He has turned down a loan move to Tranmere for personal reasons, I would guess that he doesnt want to move away from his family and that he doesnt want to play in Division 2.

I'd think if we went in he may look at things differently. His big, good in the air, strong on the ball and has pace. Plus, he has scored goals at this level, he isn't prolific but he can score them and brings others into play. Surely wouldn't do any harm to take him on loan for a month or two.

By Neil Ravenscroft on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 02:10 pm: Edit

Probably not, other than his vastly inflated Dingle wages, but I wouldn't call him a target man. Besides, would he and Carbon get along?

By Dave Roe on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 03:55 pm: Edit

Wouldn't we have to wait for a transfer window ?

By Stu on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 09:07 pm: Edit

There is no transfer window for the Football league yet, it hasn't been ratified. Thus, Millwall signing Kevin Davies on loan from Southampton (he scored tonight), Stoke signing Tommy Mooney on loan from the Blues (he also scored tonight) and Tranmere signing Connelley and failing to sign Ndah from the Wolves, all within the last week.

By Fish on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 10:06 pm: Edit

Stu, There is a transfer window for Premiership clubs. Players on contract to them cannot move until January, loan or otherwise. Isn't Mooney's loan illeagal ?

By Stu on Tuesday, September 17, 2002 - 10:55 pm: Edit

I know there is for Premiership clubs, but I am assuming it is for "incoming" transfers only. Even then, a Premiership club COULD sign a player but just couldnt play him till then. That is how I am assuming it works, thus Mooney's loan deal.

By JPD on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 03:20 am: Edit

Long term answer to attendance problems - simply let kids in for free - forever.
Doesn't matter if a few fiddle their ages, just let them in.
Get them young and they will never be lost to us.
My first game was at WFC and I've never strayed - has anyone?
Only restriction would maybe be the really big games - 2 or 3 a season.
Whats better, 4,500 or 10,000 (4,000 adults + 6,000 kids)?
In 10 years time we would be a "big" club.
And they all eat and drink like buggery.

By SheffieldSaddler on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 07:14 am: Edit

I wouldnt say let them in free, and to be honest I wouldnt want to go to a football match with loads of kids around my feet. It also sounds p*ss poor when you are singing!
But yes I think it is a good idea to offer some sort of ticket incentive to bring more kids back.
Mind you the incentive didnt seem to work with the Bradford and Rotherham games for non season ticket holders!
So like another thread. I am at a complete loss as to what to do next!
Perhaps Wallet should go to Charlton and ask what they did over the last 5-10 years.

By DrugAddick on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 08:03 am: Edit

You mean Campaign 10,000?

By dave_hawkes on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 04:09 pm: Edit

Read 'Left foot forward' by Garry Nelson. He played for the club when they moved back to the Valley, I remember he said how the club encouraged fans back. I'll try and dig the book out later.

By cannock on Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - 10:57 pm: Edit

Oh! We wont let them in for free just because you dont like them then Sheff Saddler. Balls. Its by far better to have arses on seats to create a good atmosphere and gain possible future revenue than have banks of empty seats in stands.

They wouldnt be under your feet when your sitting anyway and im sure that the club could "isolate" them just to keep you happy.

By Geoff Whiting on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 12:34 am: Edit

Chain them in their seats do you mean, Cannock ?

By cannock on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 10:21 am: Edit

Chain them there for the entire season and provide potties. At least we will be guaranteed consistently high attendances. Either that or we could take along some cardboard cut out people

By Dave Roe on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 12:33 pm: Edit

cardboard cut out people ?

Isn't that the H.L. Fellows Stand ?

By Mal on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 01:37 pm: Edit

Mr Roe I thought it had gone a bit quiet about us HL Fellowsers.

I'll tell you something it's a nightmare with no home fans, being in block J I only realised today that the reason it is full of pensioners is bcause J & K are discount blocks for 65+ and kids.

Standing up for one or two of us below 40 things have been rather animated of late, even told to sit down and grabbed from jumping on wall when we equalized Tuesday

I'm afraid it comes to us all in the end, I do fancy moving to the top tier but jumping on the wall there could have severe consequences. Plus if we carry on as we are doing it will the 21st Centuary's answer to that Dingle Ireland stand

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