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Reading (h) - League - 31st August 2002

Reports and reaction from the 2002-03 season as Walsall finished 17th in Division 1
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Reading (h) - League - 31st August 2002

Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:54 pm

Walsall 0 Reading 2
Martinez sent off 84

Walker , Bazeley , Roper , Hay , Aranalde , Wrack , Sonner , Martinez , Birch (Matias 79) , Leitao , Corica (Junior 61)
Subs not used: Ward , Zdrilic , Barras

Report courtesty of http://www.geocities.com/pinsticker1/fo ... dlers.html

A second-rate game worthy of the 2nd Division, bringing the Saddlers their second 0-2 home defeat of the season. A shamefully unambitious and uninventive Walsall team got what they deserved today – no goals and no points.

I was fearing the worst when I read Colin Lee’s pre-match intention of keeping things tight in order to neutralise the Reading attack. As it turned out, Lee seemed to be so scared of very average opposition that he must have also instructed most Walsall players that the Reading penalty area was out of bounds.

Martinez came in for the injured Simpson in midfield; otherwise, there were no further changes to the side that had won with ease at Brighton.

Walsall started brightly enough, with Jorge finishing well from a move down the right-hand side, only to have the goal ruled out for offside.

Unfortunately, that was about it from the Saddlers in the first half. We seemed like the away side as Reading were able to control midfield and have the bulk of possession. Luckily, for all the possession that Reading had, they didn’t do a lot with it. The Walsall defence looked very comfortable, particularly Hay and Roper in the middle. There was only one serious effort from Reading – a long-range shot which Walker pushed past the post.

Cureton, usually very prolific against the Saddlers, didn’t contribute much – other than a blatant hand-ball which should have got him a booking.

Martin Butler was his usual entertaining self – spending much of his time on his bum.

Another odd referee brightened up the proceedings by booking Aranalde (deservedly) and Martinez (probably deservedly) and waving his arms about a lot.

Wrack put his usual edge of the area chance high into the new stand, and a minute later redeemed himself when he set up a good chance by his tenacity against the goalkeeper.

Defensively we looked sound, in midfield we were mediocre, and in attack we were virtually non-existent. Every ball seemed to be played in the air to Leiteo and Corica, which inevitably meant that possession was immediately lost. There was nothing happening down the flanks.

The second half could only get better? We had to start to attack Reading, surely?

Frankly, there wasn’t a lot of improvement in the second half. The only time that we created any danger was when we decided to run at the Reading defence, which happened so rarely it was an event.

Birch had a very ineffective game – he didn’t really seem to know where we was supposed to be playing.

Martinez seemed clueless, losing the ball with alarming regularity. I haven’t any idea why he got sent off – perhaps the ref thought he was showing him some mercy.

Wrack ran and ran to no particular effect.

Sonner was largely peripheral, only coming into the game when he typically showed dissent to the referee and got a stupid booking.

Jorge seemed lost again – although he has every right to complain about such pathetic service and support.

Inevitably, after Walsall had done a little bit of huffing and puffing around the Reading goal, they broke away at speed to grab a smartly-taken goal. This had been Lee’s nightmare, but he had actually set the Saddlers up for this outcome by his over-cautious tactics for the majority of the game.

The second goal was nothing more than a cue to leave early.

Another imminent problem for Lee is the amount of cards that we are picking up – with such a small squad, there may be games where we will barely be able to muster a team.
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By reduntilimdead on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 05:40 pm: Edit

The worst display of the season so far not many possitives to be taken from that match apart from super steve he is what makes the team tick and after he went off we struggled.
The 2 centre halves were fantastic again but thats all lets forget this as a one off and look forward toWatford next saturday

By Paul G on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 05:40 pm: Edit

This was dire. The individuals out on the pitch are capable of far better which is perhaps the most frustrating thing. It was not as if we were outplayed by a far better side. We defended too deeply, gave possession away continually and never looked confident on the rare occaisons we had the ball in the final third of the field.

The main problem I felt was central midfield. Martinez was very poor. Misplaced passes and tackles which eventually led to his red card. Sonner was not much better and picked up a stupid booking. Mart can not come back soon enough.

Playing at home with a team misfiring against an average side - we still should have scratched out a nil nil draw.

By Neil Ravenscroft on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 07:06 pm: Edit

Especially as that was all they had come for. What was on paper a 4 3 3 formation rapidly turned into 4 5 1 and their main aim was always to stop us playing - something they succeeded in admirably. Until we were chasing the game with 10 men, Jimmy only had one real save to make.

Cant agree with the criticism of Sonner though, like the Ipswich game, he was being asked to do too much on his own.

By popperpancake on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 07:13 pm: Edit

I thought Sonner was the only one of the four in midfield who could be reasonably happy with his performance. Martinez had a mare. Wrack and Birch poor too. Just a blip hopefully.

By cat3 on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 07:20 pm: Edit

Poor performance all round, we should have drawn nil nil instead of losing 2-0... I suppose they hacked us pretty good in midfield, we just have to wait until O'Connor gets back and take charge. This is the poorest play sofar, let's hope next week will get us back on track again with some scorings... It's going to be a tough match for sure... Cross our fingers here with Corica getting back in fine fitness form!!!

By Talent Spotter on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 07:26 pm: Edit

Ex-Saddlers News:

Spotted at the ground today: John Hodge

Ex-Sads scoring today: Dean Keates, Don Goodman

By Jim on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 07:50 pm: Edit

Zigor.....

what can you say!

By Moaning Saddler on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 07:53 pm: Edit

This is what you get for being in awe of a very average team....

Match Report :

http://www.geocities.com/pinsticker1/fo ... dlers.html

By Cannock on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 08:01 pm: Edit

To be blunt, that was crap. Desparate, clueless and totally devoid of any imagination. Reading are not going to set the division alight which highlights how diabolical a performance it was. Unfortunately i dont hink this is going to be a one off unless we radically change things.
1. If Martinez is being paid then CL should be ashamed. The bloke isnt even a good second division player. How we missed Fitz today. I suggest that Matinez is binned with a capital B and all monies paid to Simpson. I have never rated the bloke at all and todays performance highlighted how out of touch he really is

2. If we are going to play with wingers then play bloody wingers as opposed to a centre forward and a player who refuses to attempt to go past players. Birch has shown a lot of promise but he is not a right or left winger. What was the point of buying Rodrigues ? We have 5 "forwards" so if he cant get a game on the wings then why have we got him. I would much prefer Wright on the flanks to either of these two. he has played 2 good games so far.

3. Jorge is not a first division striker. I know he has his fans on here but his supporters have to wait for a good goal or good game every 6/7 matches. CL needs to drop him and play Birch up front in his proper position. He didnt win a header all flaming afternoon and looked as though he'd been out on the tiles all night

4. I was under the impression that in order to get away with wearing red football boots you had to be a good player to carry it off. I would prefer to have Zigor as a left winger than a left back. He has trickery, can beat players, has decent pace and a good cross BUT HE CANT DEFEND.

5. I am not sure about Hay at all, he seems very jittery and clumsy probably due to the fact he has been out for so long. Chuck him in the reserves for a few months to get his fitness and touch back and play one of Barras or Carbon along side the ever improving Roper who is fast leading the player of the season awards along side Corica.

Bitterly disappointed today, i hope its just a blip as others have suggested but if we continue like it then it will be another long season.

Just read Whalley moaning again in the pink about no support. Do something about it then rather than whinging man. Leave that to me on the message boards after a dire performance. Im not really surprised that people dont come if that was on offer each week anyway Whalley.

Steam now let off. Carry on .

Oh by thw way, please practice in training Mr Wrack how to strike a football properly in front of a goalpost.

By Cannock on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 08:06 pm: Edit

Moaning Saddler,

Ive just read your report. Good effort, truly reflective and more eloquent than my rantings above

By Dave Gittins on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 09:45 pm: Edit

I agree with eveything above, what a dire performance. I feel guilty now about dragging my three kids along to see this.

I suppose if you are trying to find positives - Junior looked lively for a while when he came on but but then seemed to lose his way slightly.

New stand is looking impressive.

By Moaning Saddler on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 10:13 pm: Edit

Looking at the positives :

Queue for the chunky kit-kat at half-time moved very quickly.

Chunky kit-kat was not sold out.

Lady serving the chunky kit-kats was very pretty.

Errr...that's it.

By steve r on Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 10:26 pm: Edit

Another positive, it was easier to get out of the stand at the end - because most people had already left by then. Unfortunately it did mean I was behind them all int the traffix queue - so had to spend even longer listening to the usual dross callers on WM.

By Dave Gittins on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 12:16 am: Edit

Talent Spotter - don't forget the other ex-saddler scoring today.

Angell for Vale

By Robert Fisher on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 07:49 am: Edit

Agree with most of the above with the exception of the criticism of Jorge, how the hell can he produce the goods if he gets crap service ?

Poor. Today was down to poor tactics - we are not going to beat anyone playing in such a negative way - this was like Ray's last game at the Baggies. There has to be more than one up front, particularly at home.

Poor. I had the feeling that Reading were very poor at the back but we never went for them.

Poor. Midfield was particularly poor as someone has said if you play players out of position you are asking for trouble.

Poor. The Martinez performance was particularly undistinguished, although I thought him unlucky to be sent of - the Ref did not see the 'foul' he just saw the Reading player yell out and throw himself to the floor.

Poor. Dowd was another one of those Refs who confirm that this country no longer produces anything like an acceptable standard of Refs. Inconsistent and too quick to reach for the cards.

Poor. and on a separate subject, the club has really got to do something about the music to which the teams come out to. The whole thing its amaturish pants.

By Mick Evans' Black Boots on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 09:27 am: Edit

Robert Fisher, maybe Jorge does get poor service, but it would be nice if he could develop a first touch that doesn't knock the ball further than Tiger Woods can hit a three iron. And a little effort would not go amiss either.
Zigor looked a right ponce in those red boots, send for the fashion police immediately and have him locked up.
Whalley moaning again is he? He should come talk to the fans, we'd show him how to really moan, the pratt.
We let Keates Bennett and Biancalani go, and we signed Martinez? Explain please.

By Stu on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 09:30 am: Edit

Very disappointing. Devoid of any sort of invention or intelligence.

Its fine sitting back and giving Reading possession if we can do something when we get the ball, but if we've no invention then it defeats the object of sitting back. We defended quite well up until we went chasing a goal in the last 10 minutes. At 0-0, why on earth were we letting ourselves get out-numbered at the back with 10 minutes to go.
The defence deserve credit, they kept a decent triple strikeforce at bay. You then have to look at who was tracking back?!?!

I personally thought Jorge had a half decent game, unless you expect him to win the long ball, bring it down, beat his man, and then score. Or expect him to make a 20 yard flick header to his nearest man.

Why didnt we keep it on the deck? WE looked useful every time we did, so why resort to playing "ooof-ball"???

Midfield was inept, apart from Sonner who was having to do everything. Birch is out of position, but was the better of the 3. Martinez was poor, he is a playmaker playing a holding midfielders role. As for Wrack, I noticed what someone meant last week about him making good attacking runs, unfortunately, they forgot to say that those runs also leave him out of position constantly and us exposed on the counter attack.

Junior, a couple of signs but how one footed is he?!?

Otherwise, 3 pts dropped against a side that weren't half as good as Forest!

Finally, if we're going to play 4-4-2 can we play with proper wingers who can provide an alternative attacking option. Or, can we just play two proper strikers, Corica behind them and a 4-3-1-2 formation.

And a tough match next week against a Watford side that are good at home (lousy away though) and wanting to make up for a 4-0 drubbing.

By ToeJoe Jnr on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 12:37 pm: Edit

Good points Stu. Jorge probably hasn't looked like he should, but how we can slate him when we play one up front, at home, in one of the few games that I would say we were favourites to get something. Sonner has looked impressive to me and when he has someone alongside him who allows him to do what he should be doing he will be even better. Read the article in the Sports Argus about him to find that out. Hay is not up to full fitness, but he had a good game yesterday. Him and Ropes were left exposed with Reading breaking on the counter attack, for the rest of the game they were fine. I would personally like to see us go 3-5-2, using wingbacks, and giving Corica a free role in the middle of the park to link play up. But then I am not the manager, so I will put faith in Mr Lee. We will get something from Watford, Keep the faith!!!

By Geoff Whiting on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 01:16 pm: Edit

Lots of good points expressed, what's clear is we can't afford amy more games like this; these are the games where we HAVE TO pick up the three points, against the poorer opposition, as Reading certainly were. These kind of games are all "six pointers" in the shake-up at the end of the season - you can name them easily - Grimsby, Rotherham, Brighton, Bradford etc., we all know them, I don't need to name them all.
I had a funny feeling about this Reading match before the game, maybe they'd be fired up 'cos of the Millennium Stadium defeat, CL was talking of caution against their strikeforce etc., it all sent out the wrong signals.
On the day, we were mainly crap, only Walker/Roper/Corica came out with real credit, Hay and Sonner worked hard - I take it Corica went off due to his rib injury, otherwise I can't see any reason to substitute him - does anybody know why he went off ?.
Reading were better once we got the opening burst out of our system - but even so I thought this had a Nil-Nil written all over it, they rarely threatened despite their greater percentage of possession - which we contributed to constantly with a lot of APPALLING passing.
I was surprised when that first goal went in, it was such a mis-kick - off his shin I think, that it fooled Wacker completely. Why is it that it happens that way - Wrack miskicks, ball ends up in the GA upper tier, Reading's Hughes mis-kicks -into the top right corner of the net - ironic really. Perhaps we need more practice in how to mis-kick on target!
Their second was just a case of us finally having a go to save a point - caught on the break - that can always happen especially when you're a man short.
CL, please, discipline MUST improve - stupid bookings for dissent mean you only need ONE mis-timed tackle, second yellow and you're off, as happened to Martinez and could have happened to both Roper and Zigor yesterday ! Players, leave the rantings and ravings at the refs to us in the crowd, we're entitled, you're not. No amount of back-chat will change the ref's mind, accept it, turn away and get on with it; with the size of our squad we can be really damaged by suspensions, so picking up bookings for dissent is just plain stupid.
In summary, we left the ground desperately disappointed by the performance, by three thrown-away points against mediocre opposition, but still felt a little cheated that we didn't even pick up one point, and mystified as to how Reading managed to score two goals ! I hope next weekend's better, but on this form I can't see anything at Vicarage Road. No repeats please.

By Dave Hawkes on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 05:48 pm: Edit

I'd like to see us go 3-5-2 when O'Connor is back. That way Zigor could do what he does well by getting forward, and play Wrack maybe as the other wing back considering he is quite good going backwards. Then Roper, with Hay and Carbon, or maybe even Bazeley. Once O'Connor is back I think we will find more shape. But I don't think playing Birch on the right is good at all. He's a decent little striker, so play him up front with Jorge and play Corica just behind him I say. Then Sonner, O'Connor and Fitz/Junior/Roddy or someone alongside?

Alternatively, if things get a little tricky, why not revert back to 4-4-1-1 like last spring, with Corica and Jorge up front. I'm sure Sonner and O'Connor could hold the ball up better than say, Bennett and co did last year.

Either way, a fairly decent start to the season. Better than last year really. Hopefully, with a fairly easy September, we can pick up enough points to be 10-14th by the start of October, which will be so much better than last season.

The return of Mart, Carbon and maybe the retun to form of Jorge will be the key I think

By Neil Ravenscroft on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 10:02 pm: Edit

I wouldn't get that despondent yet - once Mart is back and we're playing the first choice 11, I think things might be different - after all, the first choice 11 haven't turned out yet! Stat mail has us to finish 15th, and I think that's a reasonable prediction.

By Geordiesaddler on Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 11:50 pm: Edit

Add another ex-saddler scorer, Andy Watson for Donky Rovers.

By Avid Marian on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 12:07 am: Edit

Different one.

http://www.doncasterroversfc.co.uk/players/watson.htm

By Exile on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 04:43 am: Edit

We'll be lucky to ever play a first choice eleven on a squad our size because of (i) injuries, and (ii) - soon - suspensions for all those cards we're picking up.

Cheers all,
Exile

By Ulster Saddler on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 08:54 am: Edit

I wasn't at the game on Saturday but was at the Ipswich and Wolves while over on holiday so here are my comments:

1. I had a bad feeling about the game before hand, I predicted we would lose 2-1. Just a gut feeling

2. It sounds like we created little. I think our forwards are too easy to mark but.....

3. If we play one up front surely the thoery is to pass the ball and get players up in support. Playing the long ball to a lone striker (thats what it sounds like we were doing) is a complete waste of time. It makes the forwards life impossible, pisses him off and leads to my point made in 2 above.

On another note, is Aranalde getting any better? In the first two games he was a nightmare and I'm thinking he might be better in a position where defending is not a key requirement.

7 points from 6 games = 53.6666 points for the season. I predict we will get 57 points.
UP THE SADDLERS

By Geoff Whiting on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 11:30 am: Edit

Thanks Ulster Saddler, the points prediction offers some crumb of comfort after Saturday's nightmare, shows we're still on course for safety - but it's too early to call obviously - and as I said earlier we can't let any more of these games against our main rivals slip away - they're where we have to pick up our points and at the same time of course prevent THEM from getting any. These will all be six pointers when we look back next May.

I was at the match and the points you make are all valid. I had the same bad feeling about this game - I mentioned it in my earlier message.

As for Aranalde, no I don't think he's got much, if any, better. First goal on Saturday didn't come from the left back position for a change, Hughes mis-kicked the ball into the top corner from a Salako pass from the right corner (from our perspective) of the penalty box, but for number two Hughes came charging in unmarked from the left corner of the penalty area to meet another Salako pass, where I suppose Aranalde should have been paying attention and doing some tracking back and marking - to be honest I was so gutted I didn't spot where he was, and I've not yet seen it on TV to be able to offer an opinion, but you assume he should have been marking in that general area, him being (allegedly) a left back. Hopefully I might get a look on Central News tonight, although we might not get a mention 'cos they'll probably concentrate on Blues and Albion after their wins on Saturday.

As for Aranalde changing to a position where DEFENDING is not a key requirement, most of the time I think I'd prefer him somewhere where a FOOTBALL CLUB is not a key requirement !

Also, although Jorge has admittedly been getting poor service so we offer some excuses for him, does anyone else think like me that his brain is on a go-slow, he seems to react so late that most times, by the time he spots what's happening around him and gets himself moving, any chance of getting a good first touch on the ball has well and truly passed him by.

Almost finally, the woeful passing. How about flashing lights on our players shirts, or wear brilliant white, that way we might get our players to pass to each other instead of mainly to the opposition.

And finally, on a positive note, the Balti Pies are of the same consistently high quality as last season. Well done to the caterers.

By Talent Spotter on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 11:30 am: Edit

Different Saddlers scorer : Ricketts at Bolton

Also did any one see on of the threads in here in the sporting star on saturday. There were comments from most of the regulars.

Andy Watson is on the coaching staff at Halifax

By Mike T. on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 12:13 pm: Edit

I have waited until today before submitting my considered opinions to let the disappointment subside. Perhaps like everybody else I would have settled for 0-0 as we hadn't played particulary well as I thought the midfield balance was wrong and we missed Fitz's left foot. I was again impressed with Sonner except for another unnessary booking for dissent. It doesn't look like you can speak to or wave your arms at Referees this season.
I personally thought that Wracky gave a lot of support defensively to Zigor and consequently Forster was reasonably contained. If I recall correctly both goals came via Salako on their left - with the all important first goal from a misplaced pass from Birchy when Bazeley was out of position having made a supporting run forward which was the eventuality CL was afraid of in his pre match notes.
Birchy had probably his quietest game to date but made a very good run in the first half and drew a decent save from their keeper. It must be remembered that we had two goals (correctly) ruled out for offside and 3/4 balls flew across the six yard box without anybody managing to get a touch (it might have been Wracky and Ropes diving in rather than one of the strikers).
I was suprised to read CL's post match comments that he was expecting the result as we hadn't played all that well at Brighton and certain players are underperforming. I do feel in line with everbody else that we need Mart on the pitch organising and supporting Sonner with hopefully Fitz operating on the left and a fully fit Corica floating about in the free role. Maybe Mart can have 45 minutes in the reserves on Wednesday and then be available for Watford on Saturday.
Finally CL has some interesting decisions about who plays upfront on Saturday - Jorge / Zdrillic / Birchy / Junior - nobody would appear to be an automatic choice to date.

By Mo on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 12:53 pm: Edit

Warck is a better option than Birch on the right. Matias is a better option than Wrack on the left.

If you are playing with one up and one off the wide men have to get up quickly to support them or get beyond them. They aren't. Mainly because the left sided man has to spend all game covering Zigor.

As a result we are toothless up front and Corica is wasted. Playing the way we are i'd rather have a second genuine striker on the pitch than Corica. Not cos I don't rate him, I do although I don't think he's worth splodging my blob over unlike so many others, but we are to easy to stop at the moment.

By Ian Gittins on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 12:59 pm: Edit

Wrack, Herivelto, Rodrigues and Wright are all allegedly right wingers, and we play a centre-forward there. A rethink needed, methinks...

By Mal on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 03:12 pm: Edit

It's all been said about Saturdays performance, it was definately a 'Graydon' day in terms of tactics. Mr Lee I think got it seriously wrong with talking up the strengths and the lads were scared stiff.

As for players I have always beens one to play players in positions there used to. Wracky in my opinion plays his best football in the middle and to use hom on the left has been a stop gap.

At the start of the season I went for a 3-5-2 to accomodate our better players but having seen them all now and injuries causing us problems it must be frustrating for Lord Lee.

My team for Watford is as follows pending injuries of course;

Walker
Roper
Carbon
Hay
Aranalde
Simpson
O'Connor
Sonner
Bazeley
Junior
Leiteo

Subs:Wrack, Zdrillic, Wright, Rodrigues, Birch

No need for defenders on the bench as we have 5 and can change formation to 4-3-3-1-1 or 4-4-2 etc

I think Birch needs a rest and Jorge given one more chance before stepping down.

By popperpancake on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 03:43 pm: Edit

Corica not even on the bench?

By popperpancake on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 03:49 pm: Edit

My team
4312
Walker
Bazeley, Roper, Carbon, Aranalde
Sonner, O'Connor, Simpson
Corica
Leitao, Junior

Subs...Ward, Zdrilic, Wrack, Herivelto, Hay

Its not actually gonna be what Lee picks but there u go

I've just picked simpson afta all the wrack/simpson talk....i thought about it for hours im tellin ya

By flownswift on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 04:24 pm: Edit

Popper, no Birch? I'd have the same line up but with V
Birch instead of Junior, I didn't see him saturday, so wouldn't choose him straight off. Birch has been one of the better form players I thought this term so far. I thought Birch was supposed to be up front with Jorge in the first few, and was dropping back when we lost posession to the right hand side, but he has just ended up on the right hand side more and more. I'd give him a run out upfront for 2-3. See what he/we can do with 2 up.

By Stu on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 04:39 pm: Edit

But Birch wont be an effective foil for Jorge. We've said this before.

Jorge and Lee both stated their case for wanting an energetic forward to play with Jorge, somebody who will compliment him and chase players. Jorge has said he doesnt want to play off a big man, which is how Birch plays. Birch is good in the air, and suits a more direct style. Jorge doesnt.

By Geoff Whiting on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 04:47 pm: Edit

Mal, I agree your comments about Saturday, CL did talk Reading up too much if the newspaper reports are anything to go by, and it certainly seemed that the players got the jitters, maybe from him.
But your team for Watford surely can't be right without Corica - is this just an oversight or do you know something about injuries that the rest of us haven't heard. I can't think in terms of a team without Corica right now, unless his absence is forced on us by injury or suspension.

Also, isn't Wrack's best position wide right. I think the best season he ever had for us was our first promotion season under Sir Ray, when his overlaps with the full-back (was that Brightwell, just can't remember, can someone remind me) and crosses put loads of balls in from the right wing and brought us lots of goals. OK, it wasn't division one, maybe he won't be as effective against the better defenders we're now up against, but CL hasn't seen him play there up to now; should someone suggest to him that he might give it a try, especially as Bazeley seems to be good going forward for the overlap, and also looks capable of putting in some decent crosses. I think they might link-up well. What's for sure is that Wracky isn't effective out left, whether in midfield or further up the pitch, so CL should certainly not use him there.

I quite like Popperpancake's team, but I just wish we could find an alternative to Aranalde - he only seems to play OK if he's got Mathias ahead of him on the left, and also of course behind him covering his mistakes etc. Not an easy job for Mathias, that, needs a couple of extra eyes transplanting in his backside I should think !

By popperpancake on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 05:03 pm: Edit

I just think its time for birch to have a rest. He'll get back in sooner or later. As for zdrilic or junior...who knows? Marshy was the full back with wrack. Simpson ahead of wrack i have decided for the left foot. And isn't it about time rodrigues was fit or at least fittish..what the hell's he been doing?

By Geoff Whiting on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 05:52 pm: Edit

Cheers for that, popperpancake, Marshy of course, how could I have forgotten that so soon, step-over and all - I must be losing it - if I ever had it that is !

By 4two Swift on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 10:54 pm: Edit

See the E&S, Pardew is glad they lost the play offs..........wot a silly thing to say, doubt the fans agree.
they are on here http://www.sportnetwork.net/main/s44/st11940.php

Or in tonights E&S, im suprised he said this, id be gutted if Graydon said this if we had lost.

By Geoff Whiting on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 01:33 am: Edit

Agreed, 4two Swift, it's just plain stupid bravado on Pardew's part to say that, a way of dismissing the fact that we stuffed 'em at Cardiff like he didn't care. Well I bet it hurt him a lot at the time, and for a long time after, probably still hurts even now if he'd only admit it.

To be honest, his side didn't look particularly well prepared for division 1 last Saturday, even with the extra year he's had to bring 'em on.

Yeah, they were better than us on Saturday, but that doesn't make 'em good - we were CRAP - with a half-decent performance we'd almost certainly have stuffed them again. They hardly ever troubled our defence and it looked odds-on a 0-0 until the Hughes mis-kick that fooled Wacker and screwed up off Hughes' shin into the top of the net. The second was just a result of us trying to save the game and, being down to ten men, leaving them that extra space to exploit.

Pardew can't hide behind the win, based on that game both teams will have a struggle to survive in this Division.

By Mal on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 08:49 am: Edit

Left Corica out as he has been having injections in his ribs. I thought best to get him fit for the long term than have him out for 3 months.

But in the event he has the all clear he is an obvious starter in place of Simpson, with one of the 5 on the bench dropping out prabably in Mr Lee's eyes at the moment Mark Wright.

I am concerned about Zdrillic, in that if he is now fit he was completely overlooked on Saturday. maybe Colin has seen something in real life as opposed to a video which makes him realise he has cocked up. Lets hope he is still not match fit.

As for the Matias argument I think he is finished and is only a peripheral squad player. I would rather have a young kid with pace.

By Geordiesaddler on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 10:29 am: Edit

See the trophy room's that full that we're auctioning off the match-ball from the Oldham promotion game. Find that a bit sad to be honest, be nice to keep a few tokens of the club's success around Bescot.

By Selling Walsall by the pound on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 10:55 am: Edit

Good to see it was in a presentation case though and not just photographed on a shelf in the reception area with bits of office equipment in the background.

By Saddlersbet on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 11:12 am: Edit

Or enter a competition to win tickets for a game away from bescot on the day the upper tier is meant to open.

By Geordiesaddler on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 11:32 am: Edit

I've seen everything now. What an utter farce. "enjoy an afternoon of quality football" alternatively of you lose the competition come along to Bescot. These are the people who routinely go to press moaning about how people don't come. GET SOME DECENT COMMERCIAL STAFF WHO HAVE PASSION AND BELIEF IN THE CLUB THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE PROMOTING - this lot are an embarrassment to the club and should be sacked on the spot for this.

By Geoff Whiting on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 11:51 am: Edit

Are we really getting the Oldham match ball auctioned off here. If that shiny unmarked thing in the glass case is the real match ball, I'm a banana ! It looks like it's never been kicked, for God's sake ! What's everybody else think ?

On a similar subject, without meaning to demean our goalscoring efforts of late (Mr Wrack), but I bet the recent match balls are covered in concrete coloured scratches that, on forensic analysis, will be found to match the concrete from the new GA upper tier. Well, you've gorra have a larf, ain't ya !

By Tim Wilkes on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 01:05 pm: Edit

I would worry about these remarks undermining Wracky's confidence, but what are the chances of him finding this Net?

By Stu on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 01:14 pm: Edit

In all fairness to that though, I would presume that competition is part of the whole NTL internet deal as its part of Saddlersbet. All clubs now have their own equivalent of Saddlersbet, so it could well be a generic prize that we are forced to advertise, as, at the end of the day, NTL are paying us for this.

By flownswift on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 01:17 pm: Edit

I too thought that there was no way the shiny new thing was the ball form the oldham game. Probably one they didn't use, but if the squad of that day signed it, it must have been from about that time as there were a few that left shortly after. There is all manner of tat in the background though, even a bit of grass would've been a start rather than a cluttered untidy office. Geordie, I'd settle for a bit of intelligence and common amongst the commercial staff, that would be a start. Then look for passion after.

By anon on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 01:51 pm: Edit

or not paying us, Stu.

Anyway what a prize for football league club supporters...premiership tickets. Talk about poor relations (be they public or any other kind)

By Geoff Whiting on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 01:54 pm: Edit

Since my earlier post, I've e-mailed Andy Poole on the Saddlers official site about this ball. To Andy's credit I received a reply at rocket speed, saying he actually had the ball in his hand as he was typing his reply (so he's a one-handed typist!), it does have marks on it to indicate it's been used, and he also said he'd personally photo'd it from it's best side. So if it is genuine, it seems that I am in fact, as stated earlier, A BANANA! And he told me so ! Nice boy !

Sounds to me like there are just a few alternative explanations, here's one or two :

1) The players in the Oldham game wore carpet slippers so as not to damage this potentially historic ball.
2) The players only kicked it on the one-side, clever that, so careful, so it could be displayed in a glass case apparently undamaged.
3) The players made sure the ball never left the grass, hit the running track, the perimeter wall, the beard on the face of the bloke who sits in Block K, Row 3 seat C42 of the HL Fellows, nor even the stand roof (didn't Wracky play in that game then ?).
4) The original match ball was used for say 89 minutes, got kicked over the stand roof out of the ground (probably nicked by a disgruntled Oldham supporter, outside the ground, leaving early), got replaced by a new ball for the last minute or so, and so it's the virtually unused REPLACEMENT ball that's being auctioned off.

Is this Slanderous, or can it even be Libel as it's printed on the Net. Oh sod it, I'll take my chances and post this message anyway.

Any more thoughts, boys (and girls of course ?)

By Stu on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 02:25 pm: Edit

Yeah, have you even actually looked at a new ball after its been used? Believe it or not, its not actually covered in marks. A few minor scuffs or scrathes maybe, but its not battered beyond belief.

So, how's about the conspiracy theories are dropped and we all stop moaning at anything that seems to provide an excuse

By everready on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 02:51 pm: Edit

I have to say that Confidence is not Wrack's problem. It's ability to beat a player, challenge for a ball and win it. He runs like mad and I have to say he tries hard and shows the odd touch of skill. Not good enough for the division!
However, I still don't blame him If CL picks him he does his best and there are others who cannot do the business either. Even so as teacher says " could do alot better" Get your act together Lee. Living on the short-comparative- term success of last season is a dangerous game to play for a manager. Take a good look at where the weaknesses are. A lot of the crowd can see the problems that are fixable and they only have 90 minutes or so to judge. Remember, there is no hiding, this is your squad not Sir Ray's. 'If the Cap fits'
We don't like being made to look bad by only an average team.

By Censored Saddler on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 03:46 pm: Edit

Right then, we cannot comment negatively on the club, the players, the website, the ground or the officials.

Lovely day isn't it?

Anyone for a biscuit?

Ooh sorry, I shouldnt be sarcastic. We have lots to talk about.

I think Zigor is great, he should play for Spain. I think we'll go up as champions, the programme and website are great, Roy Whalley is a top man who is right in touch with the fan base and I think we'll have 50,000 locked out for every match between now and the end of the season.

By Stu on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 04:40 pm: Edit

I didnt say you can talk negatively.

I think that people are making a hell of a lot of fuss over a bleedin match ball, thats all.

By popperpancake on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 04:46 pm: Edit

Agreed stu..who gives a ••••.

By Man in a Suitcase on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 05:05 pm: Edit

Geordie made a fair point about nostalgia, one point was made about the shoddy presentation of the photo then one or two people have presumably considered the authenticity of the item.

If I was interested in buying it, especially at the price that its going to go for, I'd certainly want to know it was genuine. Most "antiques" will come with some kind of authenticity certificate.

Anyway Stu, let people talk about what they want to talk about. Mentioning no names some people on here have an opinion on everything and no doubtedly would opine on the subject of why cat excrement is better than dog poo.

By cat3 is ok!!! on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 05:13 pm: Edit

Leave Cat's excrement out of it.

By popperpancake on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 05:26 pm: Edit

I prefer bird ••••.

By popperpancake on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 05:27 pm: Edit

By the way we are second favourites for relegation according to the bookies....they think brighton will finish above us. Ha ha

By Geordiesaddler on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 05:48 pm: Edit

Maybe Doffer's next compo should be posted on the Man U and NUFC message boards. Prize a couple of tickets for Walsall versus Gillingham, and if there's a Geordie winner I could do the Bobby Robson bit. The spiel could go: "sick and tired of prawn munchers? Fed up of listening to ex-England managers considered after dinner opinions?
Then get your @rse out of bed at 5am for a REAL footy day out. Included in the prize 10 pints of UK brewed under license Imitation Stella, as much curry related food as you can eat, a nine hour train based seminar by yours truely entitled The truth about Keith the Vampire". For the runner up we could offer Gilbert Alsop's glass eye - the real one of course.

By Geoff Whiting on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 06:05 pm: Edit

Sorry to dwell on this, but I think maybe some people miss the importance about this match ball auction.

The club say it's an important bit of our history, right. So how come we're auctioning it off for a few measly quid ?

Any implications here about the financial state of the club, in light of the ITV Digital collapse and consequent loss of income.

I mean, this ain't just about a ball even though it might be a source of mild amusement on this message board, I wonder "just how bad-off are we getting !"

By Dave Hawkes on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 06:16 pm: Edit

Geoff, I think you're reading too much into this. The club have a new auction service up and running, probably part of the NTL deal. Basically, they put a few tasty items into the auction room and they will hope that a few people sign up and auction their own stuff. They then make some commision or something.

It was a big day in the club's history, but it is only a match ball. I'd never given it a moments thought before today. I'd rather think of the lads who won us promotion rather than worry about the club selling a football.

Considering our poor crowds this season, this is a bit of a shitter by the club, offering us the chance to win tickets to a Newcastle United match! Let's show some floating fans (which probably now includes myself) some quality footy at a great stadium, rather than get us down the Bescot!

By cat3 on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 07:43 pm: Edit

Perseverance will eventually pay off, we shall win the battle ahead and end up with victory...

By Geoff Whiting on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 08:09 pm: Edit

Dave, thanx 4 the info. I'm probably panicking prematurely - can't get the Reading match off my mind - I'm off to get some tranquilisers - I'll probably be better when I've got my 'ead back together.


By Willie Penmans biggest fan on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 10:54 pm: Edit

Thing is, about this match ball, it's probably only the ball that finished the game. Remember, Big Ada used to hoof clearances out of the ground on many occasions, so there might well be several "match balls", in which case the club are missing out by only flogging one of them. If they were to flog all twelve of them, that would be even more dosh for Jeffs helicopter fund, sorry, I mean more dosh to help the clubs finances.

Anyway Geoff Whiting, perhaps selling a match ball isn't that important, after all, this club sold its soul years ago.

Could I just end by saying f#ck off Bonser, f#ck off Whalley and f#ck off Lloyd. Hope that isn't too negative.

By Cannock on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 11:27 pm: Edit

Banana boy Whiting and Tim, excellent posts previously, they have certainly amused me after a crap day at work. Its nice to see other people get so agitated over minor things. As an aside the back page of the E&S tonight states " I Want to have problems - Lee ". 'Kinell i would have thought hes got enough of those already after the Reading match !!!
Also, as CL was apparantly anticipating a reverse at home to Reading is it possible he could tell me what will happen against Watford. It may save me a journey.

By Geordiesaddler on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 12:23 am: Edit

What will happen against Watford? all depends on how you approach the day. I intend to start inhaling Ajax from 6 am onwards and then froth at the mouth in the event that the linesman should incorrectly give Watford a throw in at 1.01 pm. But as the old car stickers used to say: "don't follow me... follow Walsall FC." Have we had an auction of them yet?

By popperpancake on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 12:34 am: Edit

Sounds like a good day geordie. Hope jari litmanen doesn't get stuck in ur throat/nose.

By Geordiesaddler on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 12:51 am: Edit

Come on Popper, everyone knows if that happens you drink a can of stella whilst sticking your head out of train window at 125 mph, or is that hicups?

By Geoff Whiting on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 12:53 am: Edit

Cannock,

Glad to hear these posts raised your spirits a bit, I had a good laugh posting my feeble efforts today.

Sorry to hear you had a crap day at work. maybe 2morro will be better.

Personally I'm back in the morning from 10 days off, so I'm feeling well pissed off 2nite.

Geordie Saddler, that's brilliant, what a great laugh to go to bed on. Do they keep Ajax on general sale these days, or is it in a locked cabinet with the Evo-Stik ?

As the club don't seem to be doing too much right now to give us a lift, it looks like we can at least use this message board to amuse ourselves and help us forget last weekend. Oh s h i t, I've reminded myself again !

For some reason I can't get Watford 5 Coventry 2 out of my mind - anybody know who we've got this Saturday ?

By Messex on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 08:24 am: Edit

Sorry Geoff, sorry Cannock - today seems pretty crap already. Hope the early start on saturday clears away the cobwebs.

By popperpancake on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 04:49 pm: Edit

Hope junior can score goals at first team level too. He didn't have that hair cut saturday did he?

By Stu on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 04:59 pm: Edit

Nice to see both Junior and Zdrillic off the mark in the reserves.

Beat Rotherham 6-1 for those who havent seen, Junior (3), Zdrillic (2) and Herivelto.

By Neil Ravenscroft on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 05:26 pm: Edit

Looking at the report on the official site, Rodrigues must have done well too, as he set some of those up.

By Chris Owen on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 05:30 pm: Edit

This is all good news - CL's psychology working well. Can't work our what formation we played at the beginning, but its good to see Mart and Matt coming back, and so many attacking, flair players (Zdrilic, Junior, Rodrigues, Herivelto) hitting form just when we need it. Think CL now has the selection headaches he needs. Anyone for Junior and Zdrilic up front on Saturday?

By Geoff Whiting on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 06:41 pm: Edit

Must be worth a try, Chris, 'cos Jorge's certainly not working up there right now. Despite the poor support he admittedly gets, he seems off the pace to me. Junior should certainly add pace, but someone mentioned he's only got one-foot, his left, which would be a shame.

Mind you, I am unfortunately old enough to remember 'Cannonball' Colin Taylor, he'd only got a left foot (in football terms I mean - he did of course possess a right foot - but only used it to stand on ) but look back at his goal-scoring record alongside Tony Richards - magnifico. Irrelevant now, I know, but I just thought I'd mention it.

Haven't yet seen enough of Zdrilic to form an opinion, but as I said, it's not working for Jorge, so it's worth the change.

By Annoyed from Stone Cross on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 08:07 pm: Edit

I love Reading fans. I think they're so funny. They really do have a fantastic sense of humour don't they. Give us grief all game, naturally we give it them back (we all remember the 20-pound note waving on the coaches back from cardiff) and then they complain to the stewards at half time.

If u cant take it, dont come to away matches.

Strong words, softly spoken. See you at the Madejski Stadium u worthless cockney scumbags.

Quite violent for me, but I was really quite annoyed by saturdays game. Needed to pick on somebody, and am trying to avoid Zigor at the moment.

I thank you.

By Mellowing from Stone Cross on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 08:10 pm: Edit

and no offence meant to any saddlers fans hailing from london, this is purely aimed at anyone who adorns those vile blue and white hoops.

By Geoff Whiting on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 08:35 pm: Edit

Hi, Annoyed from Stone Cross, I think its safe to say we were ALL annoyed by Saturday's game.

As for the Reading fans' attitude, apart from the short term joy and benefit of the three points they won with a Hughes mis-kick, I don't thing they have a lot to shout about. Their team was pretty crap, but unfortunately on the day we just happened to be slightly worse than them, and neither team is going anywhere based on the performances that day. I was just amazed that ANYBODY managed to score.

Anyway, it is now Wednesday, mid-week already no-less, is it not time, boys and girls to put last Saturday to bed once and for all, and move on to the new Watford thread which, I note, is conspicuously short of posts; in fact it ain't got any yet.

I will start it off briefly in a minute !

By Not the official Walsall FC website on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 09:06 pm: Edit

FAO Chris Owen. 4-4-2

Carbon - Barras - Gadsby - Wright

Herivelto - Matias - O'Connor - Rodriguez

Zdrilic - Junior

Carbon went to centre half after the break till he and Mart were subbed after an hour.

By Geordiesaddler on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 09:09 am: Edit

Anyone see the article on the E and S news site about the trouble at Charlton away last season. Apparently one of our "fans" has been accused of a racially motivated attack on an asian fan. Although the defendant has admitted the assault he denies it was racist, his defending lawyer stood up in court and said, "the attack was down to (the victim) taking the mickey out of Walsall supporters for wearing flat caps as a mark of respect for recently sacked manager Ray Graydon."
So an idea which started on this board (Tim W I think), bandied about in crown court, scary.
Is Bush invading Iraq because he fed up of not winning Doffer's compo?

By Chris Owen on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 09:35 am: Edit

My dad goes on about how good Colin Taylor was, so well before my time (and I'm no youngster these days). By the way, why am I now signing on as fensaddler but getting my name put up on the board. I rather like my pseudonym, and I'd like to keep it.

By Tim Wilkes on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 10:00 am: Edit

I am seeking legal advice on that, Geordie. And I still have the flat cap, by the way [M&S, waxed, tartan, £8.99]. My flatmate, who was an honourary Saddler for the day, purchased one from from a 'London Gifts' shop near Charring Cross for about £20......FOOL!!
And we both wore then at the Mega Bowl in Millwall that evening...oh happy days.

The defence rests...where is Petrochelli when you need him, still building that bloody never ending house, I suppose.

By Keith Bagshaw on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 11:15 am: Edit

Fensaddler: I'me a dad of sixteen years now, and YES, colin was worth the price of admission just to see him take a set shot at goal. Pity my son can't play as good as he did!

By Neil Ravenscroft on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 11:19 am: Edit

I first strated up there in '62. Colin "the Cannonball" was worth the admission money on his own at times.

By Geordiesaddler on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 12:10 pm: Edit

According to the E and S today he's been convicted and faces prison due to his previous history. The report goes on to say that the defendent had drunk "four and a half pints of lager/bitter coctail", prior to the incident. All sounds a bit micky mouse to me.

By Tim Wilkes on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 12:23 pm: Edit

Lager/bitter cocktail.....classy!!!!
I must say the cheese and onion sanwhiches in the pub [name escapes me, maritime theme] were top drawer.

By Stu on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 12:53 pm: Edit

Antigallica I think it was! Or something along those lines, I'm sure The Oracle (aka Geordie) will know fur sure though.

By Tim Wilkes on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 01:09 pm: Edit

Antigallican it was Stu...a privateer, I seem to recall.

By Stu on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 02:07 pm: Edit

If you say so, I'll trust your judgement. (That translates to "I havent a fudge clue"

By Geordiesaddler on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 03:25 pm: Edit

Apparently Sir Percy Blakeney (Reputed to be the scarlet pimpernel), was once chairman of the Antigallican society.

By joe90 on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 03:34 pm: Edit

Geordie - See cricket thread above - I'm curious as to your identity...

By Hard drinking Saddler on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 07:26 pm: Edit

Four and a half pints. Pathetic! I'm a complete wuss where drinking is concerned, but even I could cope with four and a half pintsh....I mean itsh shtoopid.....I really love you I do.....you're my beshtesht mate you are......

By Exile on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 09:27 pm: Edit

Tim W - wasn't it Jim Rockford with the never-ending house? He put a breeze block on at the end of each episode, didn't he?

Cheers
Exile

By Glen Larsson on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 10:07 pm: Edit

The antigallactica? Wished we'd signed Phil Starbuck.

By finger of fudge on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 11:33 pm: Edit

If people were meant to live in boxes, God would have given them string to tie around themselves at bedtime to stop their dreams falling through the ceiling

By finger of fudge on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 11:36 pm: Edit

Exile,

White jacket with side vents five inches long. Dressed right for a beach fight but just cant explain why that uncertain feeling is still here in my brain

By Richard I Z L Adams on Thursday, September 05, 2002 - 11:36 pm: Edit

Addie, youve had enough for one night son.

By Exile on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 01:23 am: Edit

Quite, FOF, quite.

Exile

By Addie on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 09:55 am: Edit

Nothing to do with me, i've been out.

By Moaning Saddler on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 10:47 pm: Edit

finger of fudge,

For a higher credibility rating, shouldn't you have posted on the Brighton thread at 5.15 p.m. ??

Youngsters today - they haven't got a clue...

By finger of fudge on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 11:07 pm: Edit

Excellent Moaning Saddler, Applause, Top man

By Humphrey Littleton on Saturday, September 07, 2002 - 10:24 am: Edit

Not just the young 'uns either

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