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Wolves (a) - League - 14th August 2002

Reports and reaction from the 2002-03 season as Walsall finished 17th in Division 1
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Wolves (a) - League - 14th August 2002

Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:47 pm

Wolves 3 Walsall 1
Herivelto 68

Walker , Aranalde , Bazeley , Roper , Carbon (Hay 9) , Corica , Matias (Martinez 70) , Leitao (Herivelto 65) , Wrack , Birch , Wright

Colin Cameron re-discovered his scoring touch - and Wolves reaped the benefit. The former Hearts midfielder stunned Walsall with a two-goal salvo at Molineux. Cameron had good reason to feel satisfied after a difficult time for both club and country since moving south last September.

He managed only five goals last season as Wolves blew their chance of promotion. And only this week he was omitted from the Scotland squad for the matches against Denmark and the Faroe Islands. Cameron took advantage of some sloppy defending in the 10th minute with a cool finish.

Shaun Newton got on the end of a throw-in from Denis Irwin and played it into the path of Cameron, who swept the ball home. The goal came just as Walsall were trying to re-group after an injury to defender Matt Carbon. He came off holding his arm in the ninth minute and was replaced by Danny Hay, a summer signing from Leeds.

Wolves almost added a second in the 15th minute when Alex Rae powered in a shot from 25 yards. But keeper James Walker got up superbly to tip it over. Walsall looked disorganised and Ivar Ingimarsson squandered a good chance after being left with a clear header from Irwin's free-kick. However, Wolves were guilty themselves of some slack play at the back and Gary Birch was left unmarked in front of the posts, only to miscue his shot.

Instead of building on their lead, the home side seemed to go into their shell as half-time approached. Walker, though, did well to make a clean save from Nathan Blake's header two minutes before the break after Ingimarsson had floated the ball in. Then defender Ian Roper got in a timely tackle two minutes into the second half to thwart Blake after he had been released by Ingimarsson.

Cameron got his second goal of the game in the 54th minute after another defensive blunder by Walsall. Goalkeeper Walker raced to the edge of the penalty area to try to cut out Kenny Miller's header. But the quick-thinking Cameron got there before him to steer the ball into an empty net.

Walsall refused to lie down and pulled a goal back through Herivelto in the 67th minute after a lovely weighted pass from Birch. Wolves were stung but Newton rattled in a fierce shot, only for Walker to make a superb point-blank save. Newton ended Walsall's resistance by scoring the third goal in the 86th minute after a ball across the face of the goal from substitute Adam Proudlock.
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By Addie ( - 217.35.163.95) on Wednesday, August 14, 2002 - 06:05 pm: Edit

Good point against probably this years champions,i thought Aranalde was at fault for their goal, he gave Jasper Jones far too much space in the box. Pedro took his goal well but their keeper really should have got to it.

Liked the chant about the Nick Jarvis being a barclays, top stuff!!

Up the Sadddlers!!!

http://www.thesun.co.uk/section/0,,6,00.html

By Addie ( - 217.35.163.95) on Wednesday, August 14, 2002 - 06:07 pm: Edit

(ahem) Warbury i meant.

By Paul G ( - 134.220.2.2) on Wednesday, August 14, 2002 - 07:05 pm: Edit

What game were you watching? Aranalde was outstanding. Surely his best ever performance for the saddlers. If only Jorge had shown more composure with that chance in the last minute.

Never did like that Nick Jarvis.

By Paul G ( - 194.117.133.196) on Wednesday, August 14, 2002 - 10:54 pm: Edit

That was positive thinking - trying to will Aranalde into playing well. And what do we get - 10 minutes in and another soft goal conceded from the left hand side.

Difficult to make any judgement on tonight with so many injuries to contend with. To lose Sonner and Carbon on top of what we already have can legititimatly now constitute an'injury crisis'.

Clearly that was not a game for youngsters and Birch seemed to dissapear after missing the chance in the first half. Well tried Wright but he was never going to impose himself on the game.
Wrack had a good game in an unusual central position and Corica kept trying. But where was Jorge - has anyone told him the season has started????

By topsaddler ( - 213.1.195.130) on Wednesday, August 14, 2002 - 11:01 pm: Edit

Wright was the best player on the pitch in my eyes he never gave up trying and i heard a lot of people on about Jorge not working hard enough but he had no bloody support Birch seemed 2 be in defence more than up front we need O'conner bak asap.

By MarkW ( - 212.159.32.3) on Wednesday, August 14, 2002 - 11:17 pm: Edit

Yes we expected to lose tonight but the nature of the defeat was alarming to say the least!we were •••• poor for the 90 minutes.Totally clueless spineless and deviod of ideas.This performance rivals Graydons last game at Albion.I feel embarassed to call myself a Saddler this evening.
How the hell did we score? Already we look like a team resigned to the drop.It makes me wonder if it was Dave Merrington pulling the strings after all.

By Mr. Openshaw ( - 194.117.133.180) on Wednesday, August 14, 2002 - 11:40 pm: Edit

Muddy Mildred

By Addie ( - 217.35.163.95) on Wednesday, August 14, 2002 - 11:44 pm: Edit

Do you mind, this is the Warbury thread.

By Sheffield Saddler ( - 195.93.48.164) on Wednesday, August 14, 2002 - 11:58 pm: Edit

MarkW - This performance rivals Graydons last game at Albion, what a load of b*llocks.
You should change the "Already we look like a team resigned to the drop" to "Already certain so called fans are resigned to the drop".
For gods sake we have played the two joint favourites for promotion into the premiership. Against Ipswich there was a lot of positives, true tonight wasnt a good performance, although no where near of the West Brom away you mentioned.
Sonner was out and missed massively. Didnt help when Carbon went off either.
But who can honestly say we would have any points from our opening 2 matches, I am not surprised in the least we have got no points.
Perhaps certain people can start judging us when we have played the likes of Forest, Brighton, Reading, Bradford and Rotherham in the next month.

By Sheffield Saddler ( - 195.93.48.164) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 12:00 am: Edit

Oh and I forgot to say, I dont think Aranalde as improved a lot on last season. The combination of him and Matias is just not working.

By Eric O. ( - 194.117.133.180) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 12:06 am: Edit

Yes of course, Albion weren't upto much last season. Unlike the Wolves.

By topsaddler ( - 213.1.195.130) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 12:22 am: Edit

i was surprised when he took matias off fro martinez pedro had a good game in my eyes i thought corrica had a bad game he trys to do too much and too fancy at times

By Bristolsaddler ( - 195.92.67.70) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 12:24 am: Edit

I could'nt make it to Molineux tonight so I feel unable to comment about the actual performance [obviously]. However, what I can say is that prior to the game I felt very uneasy - similar, in fact, to the Man City away game last season. I could barely listen to the updates on Sports Talk [best option in Bristol I'm afraid]and just contented myself in the main to, er, Ceefax.
The reason for this is the fact that I feared the worst. The news of Sonner being out [along with Carbon having to go off so early] just reiforced the feeling that tonight we would be completely out of our depth. I'm sure that we tried hard, but the team we fielded tonight was embarrasingly short of the required quality, whether the likes of Wright [if so, good for him] played well or not. Clearly, the lack of depth in the squad has been found out to the extent that until the introduction of Martinez we had NO recognised central midfielders available.
A positive point to take from all of this is that the issue of a lack of depth has come early, during games that we may well have lost anyway. hopefully, this will be rectified against the real six pointer opponents [Rotherham, Grimsby, Gillingham, Sjoke etc.]. I live in hope.

By popperpancake ( - 195.92.67.76) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 01:18 am: Edit

The simple fact is we can't afford to have so many influential players out at the same time. The squad is not able to cope with it. I don't think the performance rivalled WBA away last year but it did seem a tad negative....it is early dys tho and we have played 2 good sides for this league. When we get players fit we will perform better. Personally i think martinez should have started. I know he's probably not one hundred percent fit but at least he is familiar in the holding role..something that wrack isn't as much as he tried. Jorge's form is worrying. I understand he was up on his own for a lot of the game but the ball never sticks when it is played into him..he lets defenders come str8 thru him to take the ball. He must improve.

By Jeremy Busby ( - 210.54.242.157) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 01:58 am: Edit

I have been reading these messages from my office in New Zealand. Why would a New Zealand soccer fan be looking at a Saddlers web site? Of course because you now have our Danny Hay at your club. Danny was the first (and so far only) NZ'er to play in the Premiership. He had a lot of injury problems at Leeds and now he is hoping (according to NZ news media) to re-launch his career at Walsall. I see he came on for this game. How did he go? We are honest bods down this part of the world. There will be of NZ'ers watching this site. Please let us know how our Danny is getting on. Good or bad. Oh and another thing. If anyone is able to get messages to him, let him know that the fans back home are thinking of him.

By Matt W ( - 193.237.56.21) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 07:35 am: Edit

Jeremy - to be honest he was very poor but to be fair to him he doesn't look match fit.
The overall performance tonight was not encouraging - we may as well of conceded the game for all the effort and skill shown. I know it's early days but having Wrack and Matias starting in the middle and having to play Birch and Wright in games like these doesn't bode well - if I was Colin Lee watching that I'd be a tad worried already. We don't seem to have a game plan other than for each player to get rid of the ball ASAP.
On numerous occasions the likes of Wrack could be seen hiding rather than making space to receive the ball- an indication that even he knows he is not up to this level (he is not alone!).

By Sheffield Saddler ( - 194.202.181.189) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 08:29 am: Edit

Herivelto must surely start on Saturday. Played well on Saturday and yesterday when he came on. I didnt think Hay did that bad when he came on, especially considering this was his first competitive game and he was thrown in at the deep end.
I think we must look at the Spanish connection for the major weakness in the team. I am sorry but Matias and Aranalde did nothing last season and have started this season in much the same vain. They are not good enough for this level of football on a week to week basis.

By flownswift ( - 144.254.105.20) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 08:43 am: Edit

Hay was ok, won all in the air but was clumsy on a couple of accasions with passes/Barass style sliced clearances, not much in it between him and Chuff on first showings, but he didn't look match fit. Performance wasn't too bad considering the team we were able to put out. The size of the squad/quality rather than quantity is a different discussion altogether though. I'd have been very happy with a point from our first 2 games, so 2 defeats doesn't surprise me too much. All to do on Saturday now though. Should get something out of it.

By Stu ( - 212.137.33.208) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 09:37 am: Edit

I don't spose I can comment too much as I couldn't make last nights game, as I cant any midweek games due to time and work, but we didn't expect to get anything. From what I heard, it was men against boys for the first 20 minutes of each half, but that we came into the game towards the midway point of each half. Which would imply Wolves came at us early in a bid to kill the match off.
I personally predicted 0 points out of 9, and I stick to that. But, its just a matter of waiting till we get the easier games, ie, the next 3 are Forest, Brighton and Reading (which should return 7, if not 9 points).

As I stated on another thread, our squad is desperately thin and we do need to dig deep and bring in another couple of players.

As for Jorge. If he is playing on his own against the likes of Lescott and Butler, what do you expect? Add to that, we've seen both Jorge and Lee say he doesn't like chasing flick ons which means he won't be complimented by Birch. I think its best to reserve judgement till we've seen him play with Skippy.

I would like to see Harry start, but can we afford to play him in the midfield? I am guessing he went up front last night, and I would imagine he compliments Birch quite well as Harry can latch on to those flick ons...

Overall, we didn't expect points, we've played two good teams. Lets not get worried and pessimistic too soon. If we're still struggling after the Reading match, then maybe we can worry. But as Sheff said, we've Forest, Brighton, Reading and Rotherham to play in September. I think those could bring 10-12 points. And another valid point was, its better to play the games we would have expected to lose with the weaker squad rather than those games that will be close matches!

By Alan ( - 195.74.100.165) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 10:08 am: Edit

I don't think too many people predicted us to
win last night.

I certainly didn't.

But having read Colin's comments before the
game where he said we were going to attack
and not sit back, I was surprised to see only
Jorge up front.

What most worried me was the manner of the
defeat - we were way too negative and very few
players could say they gave 100% (let alone
the 110% needed).

If you think honestly about the game - when
did Oakes have a save to make? When did we
flash shots just wide?

Still, early days and all that. Roll on Saturday.

By Paul G ( - 134.220.2.2) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 10:13 am: Edit

All good points Stu but last night still hurts because of who we were playing and the lack of passion shown by some of the players. It was as though they knew it was an unwinable game and several players just went through the motions to get the game out of the way. It's tough for those of us working in Dingle land today.

Anyone know what the problem with Carbon is?

By flownswift ( - 144.254.105.20) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 10:23 am: Edit

dislocated shoulder I think, hope it doesn't need pinnig.

By Delves Saddler ( - 194.73.163.108) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 11:09 am: Edit

Roper and Bazeley are the highlights of the two games so far, although Roper did get dragged out of position on occasions because Aranalde was nowhere to be seen!

'Harry' MUST start on Saturday, in place of Wrack (the lowlight of the first two games) - he is the best attacking outlet we have got at the moment. If he must play with a lone striker, drop Corica back in to central midfield and play 'Harry' in the 'hole'. Birch did alright on the flank, as did Wright.

Walker

Bazeley, Roper, Hay/Carbon, ?(we only have Zigor!)

Wright, Corica, Pedro, Birch

Harry

Leitao

By Stu ( - 212.137.33.208) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 11:19 am: Edit

Surely Martinez would be in there ahead of Pedro in the centre?

Even then, that midfield quartet looks •••• poor. No ball winner, no calm experienced head to lead, no leading commanding player. It involves playing 3 players out of position, as Birch isn't a winger, Pedro isn't a central midfielder and Corica isn't best suited to a 'set' position.

I'm not knocking you though, so dont get me wrong, as you've picked what we have available to us (due to Sonner and O'Connor's injuries). But it emphasises the need to strengthen that area, and quickly.

By popperpancake ( - 195.224.209.151) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 11:45 am: Edit

Can i just point out that the second and third wolves goals came from the right hand side not the left. The second goal came from Bazeley misjudging a long cross field ball which was headed on to cameron. The third somehow proudlock managed to get clear down that side..i'm not sure who was over there (i presume it was bazeley and hay) but there was no way he should of wriggled clear to deliver the cross. B4 everyone starts i think bazeley has made a good start to his walsall career and is undoubtedly a first division player but it makes no sense to say aranalde was at fault when u look where 2 of the 3 goals came from. The first aranalde should never have let newton get the cross in but the same applies for the third and whoever was over there with proudlock.

By Stu ( - 212.137.33.208) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 11:50 am: Edit

One more quick note, just because Lee publicly says we're going there to attack and take the game to them. Don't take that as gospel for what we're going to play like.
Thinking logically, why would any manager tell their opposition how they are going to play before the game? Its just a false sense of security, and throws a blanket over our tactics. It leaves Jones thinking, is he really going to come and attack, or just sit back??? And makes Wolves think harder on how they will play... I often find its just a bit of mind games to be honest.

By Sheffield Saddler ( - 194.202.181.189) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 12:35 pm: Edit

If Aranalde hadnt given away the ball in the first place, the long cross field ball as described would not have happened.
The bloke is sh*te, doesnt know how to defend, lets players cut inside him, gives the ball away on most occasions and is out of position too much.

By popperpancake ( - 195.92.194.19) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 12:48 pm: Edit

How far do we wanna go back to say whose fault a goal was. Who gave the throw in away that the first goal come from? Who gave the ball away that forced someone to give a throw in away? I don't know and don't care. Fact is Bazeley was at fault as aranalde was at fault for the first goal. I'm not even defending zigor just pointing out the biased views from one game. Overall there is no doubt who the better player is.

By Paul G ( - 134.220.2.2) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 12:53 pm: Edit

He was at fault for the crucial opening goal in our first 2 games. He was similarly at fault for numerous goals last season. He was at fault for goals back in the 2nd Division. Watch the play off final video and look how out of depth is in the extra time when reading really pushed at us.
He frightens me I'm afraid and I've started to watch games from through my hands whenever the opposition attack him.

For all that Colin Lee has done for us giving this guy a three year contract is a major mistake. I'd rather see Keates play at left back.

By tom ( - 134.220.2.2) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 01:18 pm: Edit

Was it just me or were we the quietist we have ever been at Molineux. Even when we scored it was like we were at a wake. No atmosphere before, during and after and i know the performance wasnt the best but i couldnt help but feel disappointed by our efforts. Why do i have to work in Dingleland??????

By Manc Saddler ( - 195.224.246.76) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 02:08 pm: Edit

Now Carbon is out for up to four weeks! Matias also injured! Coiln Lee calls for any non-contract players out there to "give him a ring", even if it's just an opportunity to get in the shop window!

I know it's only two games, and two of the most diffficult, but this sounds pretty desperate to me?

Wiil we have enough players for the subs bench on Saturday? How can this happen after only two games? After early seasom optimism based on the quality of the new signings, it now looks like folly to attempt to compete with such a small squad.

By Neil Ravenscroft ( - 62.172.127.2) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 02:43 pm: Edit

The full quote is a bit more optimistic than that:-

"I have got two up my sleeve. I am trying to do everything I can to make us a better team.

If it means non-contract players who want to put themselves in the shop window then they should give me a call. If it means we have to bring in players on loan then we will try and do that.

We will do everything we can to try and increase the size of the squad to give us a chance in games."

By Geordiesaddler ( - 213.205.138.250) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 02:43 pm: Edit

Can't believe people are comparing last night to the depths we plummed under Graydon Last season. At least last night was a game of football which until the 86th minute we were in with a chance of getting something from. Things are going against us with injuries etc. at the moment but it won't last forever. I think Birch, Hay, Wright, and Martinez all coped well under difficult circumstances and I wouldn't be disappointed if we start with them on Saturday.
To me Jorge and Wrack need to stand up and be counted. Once again Jorge seems incapable of lasting 90 minutes. If anything I'd shove Corica up front with Birch on Saturday, play Herivelto behind the front two, and revert Jorge to his more effective sub appearance. Surely Sonner and Zdrilic can't be that far away from fitness - they were both mentioned in connection to last night's game up until the eleventh hour.

By Sheffield Saddler ( - 194.202.181.189) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 02:50 pm: Edit

Yes, we are in a desperate situation, so why not ask players to "give him a ring". There must be players out there of first division quality who havent got clubs at the moment.
Were Leicester desperate when they had players playing for them Saturday who were not even being paid? No, they were just taking advantage of the current situation. So why cant we?
Cant believe what bad luck we are having with injuries. O'Connor, Sonner, Matias, Carbon, Zdrillic, who is next!

By flownswift ( - 144.254.105.20) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 03:11 pm: Edit

not to be entirely unexpected with some of the above players though, Carbon and O'Connor (-mainly due to age) are injury prone as are Rodriguez and Hay it would seem. Was interseted though to see lee's comments re the 3-5-3 for the latter stages of the game had Carbon not been injured. Three quite similar centre halves in Hay, Roper and Carbon (ie they all three attack the ball and mark well), would be interesting to see how that works.

By flownswift ( - 144.254.105.20) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 03:12 pm: Edit

3-5-2 obviously not 3-5-3.

By Stu ( - 212.137.33.208) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 03:16 pm: Edit

Lee obviously reads this board then, as thats what I suggested last week, along with a couple of others...

I knew I should have applied for job, and with my Championship Manager success I'd have walked into the jon and I wouldnt have wanted paying either!!!

:)

By Cannock ( - 194.117.133.182) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 03:44 pm: Edit

Absolute tosh. I find it amazing that everyone accepted before hand that we would get nil points from our first two games. What alarms me even more is the fact that it appeared that the players also accepted this. My opinion is that the players knew and they accepted they would lose before a ball had been kicked last night. What disappointed me the most was the lack of fight, the lack of bottle required to get "stuck in" the lack of belief. Last time we won at Mol we had the likes of Rammell, Barras, Ada etc who would run through brick walls to try and achieve results. NONE of the players on show last night had any of that determination. The only 2 players who could walk away from last night with heads held high were Roper and Wright. The rest of the players hid and went through the motions having accepted defeat as soon as Wolves scored. Somehow we snook a goal back but aside from that we never looked like scoring. Why are we unable to pass the ball ? Why do we attempt to always hoof the ball over the top for our forwards and only succeed in giving the opposition the ball back to attack us. A simple fact is that if you give the ball away you will not do anything with it. Surely we dont practice this in training. As for the quality of our squad , we only have 1 real player of 1st div class and that is Corica and unfortunately the bloke just cant do it on his own. Absolutely gutted about the level of commitment and belief last night. In response to NZ, i thought D Hay was absolute pants. He was poor against Malawi and lokked like a clumsy weak link in the centre of defence. Hopefully it is because he isnt fit.

Man of the match Wright for effort
Mares of the match Aranalde, Matias, Jorge, Birch, Hay.

Im hoping i have over reacted and that we will be a match for the lesser teams but at the mo i dont feel as though we will. Someone please attempt to cheer me up

By popperpancake ( - 195.224.209.190) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 03:51 pm: Edit

Unbelievable problems with injuries. Not desperate to ask non contract players to put themselves in the shop window just common sense really. It seems to me like lee made the decision to have a squad made up of individually higher paid players than a larger squad of lower paid players. Surely that was the correct decision to make. Its just that at the moment we are struggling with injuries, in the long term (ie the wholde season) unless these conincidental injuries keep happening we'll be ok. PS WBA away last season was a game of football which up until the very last minute we had a chance of getting something from. (But i know what u mean geordie).

By Geordiesaddler ( - 213.205.138.250) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 04:02 pm: Edit

Re the comment about the crowd being quiet. If we
can't think of any songs other than that "boing boing" sh!t I'd take quiet any day - all this stuff about the Albion makes my flesh creep. Nearly as bad as singing "you'll never walk alone" at Old Trafford in 97, what next? "we are the Wednesday".

By Sheffield Saddler ( - 194.202.181.189) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 04:15 pm: Edit

So Cannock. You dont think Walker, Bazeley, Carbon, Roper, Hay, O'Connor, Sonner, Rodrigues are first division class then?
Caus I think they are.

By Matt W ( - 193.237.56.21) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 04:27 pm: Edit

The criticism of Jorge is way too harsh - the service he is getting consists of either balls to his feet whilst he has his back to goal and is surrounded by defenders or long hopeful punts forward. To suggest he doesn't start the next match is either a)ridiculous or b)desperate or c) both of these. Jorge is one of the 4 class players we have at the club (alongside Corica, Walker and Carbon). I've left O'Connor out of this list because I don't think he'll feature much this season - I will be pleasantly surprised if he plays more than 15 matches.

By Geordiesaddler ( - 213.205.138.250) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 04:34 pm: Edit

Cannock are you for real, are you saying that Walker, Carbon, Roper, O'Connor, Sonner, etc etc arn't first division class? The run through brick wall types that you described weren't, which is why we got relegated with them. All of our squad that played a major part last season proved they were first division class over a long hard season, not one game taken out of context like the Wolves win of '99 - the same players a few weeks later rolled over and died for six matches all of which were lost including the memorable 0-5 aganist Bica and the muppets. If you're looking for solace in the wake of last night try the wonders of selective memory, remember the fantastic team that stuffed Blues 5-0, Alex Taylor - what a player!

By Geordiesaddler ( - 213.205.138.250) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 04:44 pm: Edit

Mattw - I will be pleasantly surprised if Jorge plays for 90 minutes 15 times this season - I doubt if he did so last year. He is a professional footballer suposedly at the peak of his career and yet can't manage to complete more than 75 minutes - it ain't good enough. He has dined out long enough on the two goals he got against Charlton in the cup. Birch has come in and looked a better player than Jorge over the two games - at least he's fit enough to stay on the pitch for the duration.

By MarkW ( - 217.36.100.82) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 04:47 pm: Edit

Well said Cannock!We did go through the motions last night.The level of commitment was a joke.Why do we think that Martinez -- a reject from a second div side can do a job?
You can all talk about only 2 games gone and against the 2 favourites but unless something is done fast (mainly to the midfield ) then the writing is on the wall.Without Martin O'Connor we are half a team.
3-1 last night flattered us! A realistic score would have been 5 or 6 nil.
The team last night looked like an end of saeson side already relegated and trying out a few kids to give them some experience.

By popperpancake ( - 195.224.209.85) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 04:50 pm: Edit

Are u saying aranalde (as a player who played a major part last year) is first division class?
2-1 to us on saturday..aranalde brace.

By Ian Gittins ( - 217.45.45.113) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 04:51 pm: Edit

When in doubt, look to Dad's Army.

There are a few Private Frasers on here ("We're all doomed!") who need to take a bit of advice from Corporal Jones ("Don't panic!") and not behave like a platoon of "Stupid Boy" Pikes. If we'd lost two games to Grimsby and Wimbledon we'd have cause for concern, but we've had woeful luck with injuries and lost to Ipswich and Wolves, the two (allegedly) two best teams in the league.

Sorry if this analogy is a bit wearing (Mainwaring?) but we don't need to feel half as low (Arthur Lowe?). Even if Wrack IS about as much use as Private Godfrey.

I'm going for a lie-down now.

By Ian Gittins ( - 217.45.45.113) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 04:52 pm: Edit

Who do I think that I'm kidding, Mr Gittins?

By MarkW ( - 217.36.100.82) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 04:56 pm: Edit

I agree with Matt.Lay off Jorge.When he is provided with oportunities by our "playmakers" then we can comment.Last night he played alone upfront surrounded by 4 defenders with continuos balls hoofed in the air to him.Nobody would stand a chance with that kind of service.

By Cannock ( - 194.117.133.182) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 05:06 pm: Edit

Thank you Mr Gittins for the re-assurance. I will look to you to lift my spirit as the season progresses. I will use you as my designated therapist

By Surrey Saddler ( - 195.93.48.158) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 05:09 pm: Edit

Must agree with Sheffield about Pedro and Ziggy. True Pedro scores the odd goal or two (and don't we need that). But for that matter so did Angel. Pedro, if you notice, looses every 50:50 ball. This led directly to Ipswich first goal on Saturday. I cannot comment on Wolves game because I wasn't there but from the internet commentry it seems we dominated the game for 20 minute periods but didn't have to fire or skill to capitalise.
n.b Some one has to live in Surrey

By Geordiesaddler ( - 213.205.138.250) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 05:12 pm: Edit

Popper - ever the Devils advocate - what I'm saying is that last years team proved themselves at this level, Aranalde included it's a fact not a matter of opinion. Having said that you should always look to improve by relpacing your weakest link, I can't believe there isn't a better left-back somewhere. Either way it's the one area where we don't seem to have any competition for the shirt or cover for injury. Markw - even if Motherwell were a second division side I think Martinez deserves to be judged on what he does in a red shirt, and so far he's spent about 15 minutes in one.

By popperpancake ( - 195.92.194.15) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 07:40 pm: Edit

Yeah i agree geordie..we have very little competition for places down the left hand side generally....that's why i was surprised biancalani was allowed to leave. I think martinez is a good player...i always liked him at wigan...just does the simple things...keeps the ball moving. This point that players not wanted by lower division or scottish clubs aren't good enough for us doesn't make any sense.....rammell and goodman are a good example of fans favourites who arrived via that route in recent times.

By exile ( - 203.97.2.243) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 08:33 pm: Edit

Ian Gittins - you stupid boy! Good analogy though.

Cheers
Exile

By PT ( - 62.30.0.3) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 09:22 pm: Edit

I thought we did OK. To say we played defensively when our midfield was made up of three wingers and a Corica seems strange. They (both fans & players) were getting well windy at 2-1 and if Oakes's spill had landed to a red-shirt we could have been on here today trumpeting a spirited come-back.
As for the atmosphere I felt a tangible change in my own mood when news reached the boozer we were in of Sonner's injury. Our dafter fans may have let off all their steam. As I got into Wolverhampton Station there was an announcement that the Walsall to Wolverhampton train would not be arriving due to vandalism - twerp!!
One smallish consolation was that Wolves were well short of Ipswich for passing and movement and I can't se them doing any better than play-offs.

By rugeleysaddler ( - 195.92.168.171) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 09:54 pm: Edit

The constant Zigor bashing is pointless (who else do we have to play in that position?) but also highlights a lack of imagination on the part of the people who continually make these comments. Lets make this clear: WE DID NOT LOSE LAST NIGHT BECAUSE OF ZIGOR.

I thought Lee got the tactics wrong last night. We don't appear to be playing to Jorge's strength's. Herivalto should have come on a lot sooner and maybe even should have started.

Also Birch was crap last night he may have set up the goal but he was out of position for most of the game. Everyone round by me was screaming for Lee to substitute him and then the E&S ,make him our man of the match.

By Todmorden Medical Centre ( - 194.117.133.180) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 10:07 pm: Edit

Pedro apparently is 50/50 for Saturday. Could he make his first 50/50 of the season?

By topsaddler ( - 62.7.13.77) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 10:30 pm: Edit

How can u say Birch was crap sure he was out of position but for godsake he mopped up well at the bak nearly every corner defended was by him he's good in the air fast just needs more 1st team football.
My man of the match would have been Mark Wright i thought he a good game again needs more football.

By blobbyh ( - 195.93.33.173) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 11:26 pm: Edit

you moaning, groaning, know it all tos-ers!
This time last year we had 4 points out of 6. We had beaten WBA (promoted) and were about to lose to Crewe(relegated).
I think some people out there must think its April not August.
I dont worry about the first month of the season its the last month that always causes me problems.
We have nearly as many injured players as fully fit. Players are having to fill unfamiliar roles so get off their backs. Birch and Wright were 2 major positives last night. Wright made Naylor look the buffoon that he is. Birch was obviously playing to orders and covered every yard of the pitch! Let things settle down - Lee will come good, the players will come back from injury and who knows a few more new faces might arrive. Lets just hope they dont read some of the messages on here or else they might never sign!!!!

By Jeremy Busby ( - 210.54.242.157) on Friday, August 16, 2002 - 12:22 am: Edit

Thanks everyone for the feedback on Danny Hay. I appreciate it from far away. Seems some think he was okay, some thought he was not. I hope he proves himself. He has not been available for the NZ team in the last 12 months due to this injury problem. According to news media here he has had two operations (groin) Playing locally he was never injury prone. Lets hope that he is over the problem.

I was interested in the comments about playing 3-5-2. Danny is certainly suited to such a system. I was amused when someone commented he had won most of the ariel stuff. This has always been his strength. Hope the other stuff regarding injuries sorts itself out. Will the boss go to the market short term? Dores he get financial backing from the board? We get very little coverage here from outside the Premiership. From that League we get 4 live games (middle of the night or breakfast time depending on KO time for us)but nothing from Nationwide. So as a new Saddlers fan I have to rely on this site.

By the way. Fifa rankings (new) out yesterday. Refer http://www.fifa.com Big media coverage here that NZ has jumped 41 places to 47. According that that site:

England 7
Republic of Ireland 13
NZ 47
Scotland 60
Wales 89
Northern Ireland 90

I think we are a tad inflated.

By Geordiesaddler ( - 195.92.194.18) on Friday, August 16, 2002 - 12:30 am: Edit

So's our centre forward.

By Dave H ( - 213.1.129.212) on Friday, August 16, 2002 - 10:42 am: Edit

You can slate Jorge all he likes guys and gals, but at the end of the day, do you think he doesn't know already that he's not doing the business?!

He scored a shed load of goals in Division two because he got good service. Our wide men generally put decent balls in and around the area, and Brett and Byfield were able to lay the ball off to him. Bennett also did his bit that season in creating for Jorge.

In Division one, it is always going to be harder. When he's playing with no service from the midfield, and no experienced striker partner, he's not going to grab a hat-trick is he! Strikers will always be judged on how many they score I suppose.

We have been unlucky in terms of injuries so far this season. I wonder why we held onto Pedro and Wracky, and yet let Simpson and Biancalani go. I thought they were two better players, and would have provided more cover in our injury 'crisis' at the moment.

You can't call Martinez a Wigan 'reject'. I doubt any of us on here know why he left them. Maybe he wanted to play at a higher level, maybe they couldn't afford him, or maybe he fell out with the gaffer, but that doesn't make him a bloody reject.

And Don came to us from Motherwell. Blimey, if Martinez does half as well as Don did for us, I'll be a happy man.

I'll be happier when we have Mart, Sonner and Carbon back though!

By Sheffield Saddler ( - 194.202.181.189) on Friday, August 16, 2002 - 11:08 am: Edit

Jorge will score goals in this division given decent service. At the moment firstly he has no service whatsoever, secondly he his not playing with a partner who will bring the best out of him and thirdly he just doesnt have the game to play him alone up front. He is a goalscorer, not someone who can hold the ball up and wait for support. Simple really.
Added to all of this is confidence must be zero taking into account the 3 points mentioned above.

By Ian Gittins ( - 217.45.45.113) on Friday, August 16, 2002 - 01:00 pm: Edit

I wonder what Rodrigues must think about his "drop down the divisions" to get first team football. A host of injuries, and he couldn't even get on the bench against Wolves. Or was he crocked as well?

By Betty ( - 212.137.30.138) on Friday, August 16, 2002 - 03:59 pm: Edit

Sheffield Saddler/Anyone...? Where is "The Globe" ? How far from the actual ground is it ?

Info pls.

By Stu ( - 62.252.64.8) on Friday, August 16, 2002 - 04:45 pm: Edit

Depends if your catching the train or not! Its right opposite Sheffield Hallam University, that fine educational institution *cough cough* I attended.

If you come off the train, just walk out the train station. You'll see a pub on the opposite side of what looks like, but isnt, a roundabout called The Howard. To the left of that there is a street up a hill, walk up that street and its 100 yards on the left, opposite a little car park.

If your driving, and you come into Sheffield from J33, then follow signs into town and the train station, and follow above directions.

And its about a 5 minute walk to the ground from there. It serves food as well at lunchtimes.

By Don on Friday, August 16, 2002 - 09:13 pm: Edit

What a variety of opinions on this thread!! I saw Ipswich and was at Molineux HOPING for a repeat of that wonderful night 3 years ago. Considered opinion? Against Ipswich - half a yard short of pace and unwilling to close opposition down. Watch the video of the Ipswich defenders. Against Wolves - Agree with Cannock, BELIEVE that you are going to win!! Corica - very good but needs his Aussie mate in the team to help him. Birchy, watch any videos you can find of Bernie Wright (preferrably planting Gordon West in the back of the Everton net!!)! You may not win the ball everytime, but WANT IT and CALL FOR IT!! So many times - especially in the second half - you just ambled around filling a space! You ARE as good as the opposition, BELIEVE IT and DON'T waste your opportunity!!! I really hope that you make it. Yup, Jorge needs to trouble the defence a bit more - I hear the comment about pints and pies but I hope that it isn't STILL true. Zigor?? I have defended him to his detractors for ages because he has class - for most of the time anyway - but is the fault, and there IS a fault, with him or left midfield?? I know not, but Matias certainly struggles at this level. Danny Hay I was impressed with - don't worry Jeremy, he'll do well - but oh for a bit more firepower up front!! Anyone notice Herivelto's reaction to scoring the goal?? Kissing the badge to the fans may be a bit theatrical but it was good to see!!!!!! We have had a difficult start to the season without a doubt, but it does hurt losing to the Dingles without posing much of a threat.
Good points?? Shrewsbury coming up!!!! It is surprising how many of the younger fans don't remember the rivalry that existed. Oh, those treks up the A5!! I now live near Shrewsbury (and STILL watch Walsall - naturally!!) and have never forgotten it!! We WILL do better this season because we have a good squad - albeit it a little thin - and because we have a good manager. We are what we are, a BIG little club, not a load of posers like the Dingles who consider it their God given right to be successful! In finishing, what a wonderful chant on Wednesday night of "There's only one Gary Megson"!! Well done to the fella in front of me who started it!!

Here's to Colin Lee and the rest of the season!! AND here's to Sept 10th!!!!

By The Hon. Jumbo Trudgeon ( - 213.120.56.41) on Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 01:18 pm: Edit

What's happened to the Warbuty thread?
I wanted to post my opinion.

By fredagreaves ( - 195.93.32.157) on Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 06:21 pm: Edit

To New Zealander Jeremy Busby.

To be honest I dont think Hay is up to it. It was reported in the Mercury that Lee is interested in Dunne, the young Motherwell defender. I think Colin Lee will forsake Hay when Dunne signs.

By Stu ( - 62.252.64.8) on Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 11:23 pm: Edit

You reckon? Considering all circumstances, I thought Hay was quite impresive yesterday

Yes, he did make a vital mistake that nearly resulted in a goal, except for Bazeleys amazing goal line clearnace. But, considering he was chucked straight into a start despite not looking 100% fit, he did pretty well. He came up against two strong centre forwards (although Allison was a donkey) and had to deal with 50 yard up and unders constantly. He won more than his fair share, and looked very cultured on the floor.

Remember, your talking about a player who made his Leeds debut in the Nou Camp against Barcelona, and in two of his earliest league matches started against Liverpool and Man Utd!

Give the bloke a chance, let him get fit. And also, not a chance that Lee will forsake him if he gets this "Dunne" bloke. Remember, Lee claimed Hay was his "big" summer signing and reckons he will be one of the best 1st division defenders when he is fit.

Also, did it say anything else about this Dunne bloke? Ie, what position? I hope his a left back, as Zigor has contributed to 3 of the 6 goals we've conceded to date (His stand still and let the ball bounce defending was awful yesterday, does he not like attacking the ball? He should, as McGovern showed what will happen if you don't attack the ball!)

By Stu ( - 62.252.64.8) on Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 11:37 pm: Edit

Freda, Are you sure its Dunne? As I've looked on three different 'Well sites to find his position, and they don't even name him in the squad at all... (I checked the official site, an unofficial one and the PlanetFootball.com squad list and there isn't a mention of him)

By Neil Ravenscroft ( - 62.172.127.2) on Monday, August 19, 2002 - 08:35 am: Edit

There was a rumour about 7 or 8 weeks ago about us looking at some young player from Motherwell, but can't remember the name.

By Ulster Saddler ( - 194.168.211.176) on Monday, August 19, 2002 - 09:04 am: Edit

I,m just back at work after a week in England and I went to the first two games. Against Ipswich we were simply beaten by the better team. Against Wolves we made them look much better than they are. We were poor. Why didn't anybody mark the Wolves no.7. He crossed for the first goal, made the pass for the second and scored the third. Throughout the game he had acres and acres of space to look up and make passes. We only seemed interested in marking at all when they were 20 yards out. We also don't seem to mind if the opposition sling in cross after cross. Our marking generally in the first two games has been poor. I honestly felt after the game that if we had been any good Wolves were there for the taking.
As for Aranalde and Matias - lets just say it didn't work for the first couple of games - although my season ticket holding brother informs me they had a good understanding at the end of last season.
Jorge has not done a lot in the first two games but I don't think its his fault. He is getting zero service. However, I would say that our forwards are far too easy to mark - there is very little movement. We had a free kick against Wolves and about six players in the box - every one of them was standing completely still offering the taker nothing.
Glad we got the point at Sheff Utd.
UP THE SADDLERS

By 991841125083 ( - 213.122.227.190) on Monday, August 19, 2002 - 06:19 pm: Edit

the name of the bloke we were linked with from Motherwell was elliot i think

By Stu ( - 62.252.64.8) on Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 07:11 am: Edit

I remember that lad, but he was a midfielder/striker, Northern Ireland international I think.

By 991841125083 ( - 213.122.238.213) on Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 07:22 am: Edit

i think he might have signed for hull but not sure

By fredagreaves ( - 195.93.33.181) on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 01:48 am: Edit

To whom it concerns.

I apolgise to anyone I may have mislead,with my obviously very poor attempt at humour ie "forsake Hay when Dunne signs"


For my penance,I shall 1)Start a Michael Ricketts fan club. 2)Pay three drink tokens to watch the reserves. 3) Start a "Bring back Paul Taylor" campaign. 4)Appease Mike Lloyd by not watching the Saddlers on Sky for nothing, but go to Becco,pay £15.00,not be allowed to smoke,and get stuck on the car park for so long that I have to go straight to the pub from the match.

By Neil Ravenscroft ( - 62.172.127.2) on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 02:21 am: Edit

Stuart Elliot, Northern Ireland international. Still at Motherwell, I think.

By 1933 ( - 62.7.102.159) on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 05:13 am: Edit

Stuart Elliot, Northern Ireland internation. Now at Hull City. Long-term injury picked up at weekend. I know.

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