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Sheff Utd (a) - FA Cup Rnd 5 - 15th February 2003

Reports and reaction from the 2002-03 season as Walsall finished 17th in Division 1
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Sheff Utd (a) - FA Cup Rnd 5 - 15th February 2003

Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:44 pm

By Dave M (195.92.194.11) on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 09:20 pm: Edit

This was the 5th round of the FA cup and what performance did we get. Totally in-ept, no passion, no fight I am very very disappointed. Even at the end the players could not make the effort to come over and thank the fans for thier support. There was not a player on view who earned his wages today, disgraceful the lot. Will think long and hard as to whether I can make the effort to turn up next week.

By 1933 (81.131.178.184) on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 09:27 pm: Edit

Disappointing considering all the hype, however we must know concentrate on making sure we stay in this division as it's easier to get to the fifth round when you only have two teams to play.

By hullsaddler (212.50.167.20) on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 09:42 pm: Edit

Obviously destined never to go any further than 5th round.I did think that we started quite brightly with some good movement going forward,without ever creating a real clearcut chance.Sheff U had come into the game a lot more, by the time ,Junior had his one real opportunity when he did not seem to be able to get enough purchase on the ball to lift it over the keeper.Thought Jorge was very disappointing.I did think though that we deserved to go in level at half time.
Sheff U obviously knew which end to kick off towards as the low sun in the 2nd half seemed to be causing Jimmy problems.Was it a factor in the 2nd goal ( as summariser on 5 live thought)?
We huffed & puffed a bit.We didnt seem to get the rub of the green with the way that the ball ran, but there was never a sense that we were going to get back in the game.Thought 'anonymous' is the most useful adjective to describe many of the players & most of the 2nd half.
At least I can stop worrying about rearranging holiday plans so as to see the 6th rd.
Rochdale for the Cup!

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.51.172) on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 09:44 pm: Edit

Agree. No passion, No fight and a overall terrible performance. Cant think of anything positive to say. Cant think of 1 player to come out with any credit. Our chance of history and the players give that sort of performance. Why? 3500 Saddlers let down and wondering why they bothered, I certainly do.
And to make it worse certain members of our supporters earn as many points out of 10 as the players did today - a fat ZERO! It is all Coricas fault you know. Wake up and look at the other 10 players on that pitch and tell me which ones performed any better than Corica today.

By Jorge14 (195.93.32.161) on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 10:06 pm: Edit

I agree Sheff, I think that most of the fans their today didn't know much about the game of football or Walsall FC in general. This season is the first season I've been going to every away match (I'm 14) regularly and to be honest you get to the know the faces of the regulars. While it's great to have 3500+ fans and for the 10 minutes prior and after kick off it was a great atmosphere with nearly everyone singing, however, the atmosphere died down and it was left to about 30 of the fans to do the singing. And while singing songs isn't a main part of football, hell you can do it at home if you want, it's good to get behind the lads and today their simply wasn't enough pride from the lads or the "part-time" fans as they are generally known.

The performance was appaling today. A one legged man could have done better today in conditions where we can't even have an excuse. OK, the referee was poor and made a few errors, but that can't be an excuse for a lack of pride/passion and Simpson and O'Conner being at least a yard of the play. After last weeks performance it is a wonder that Simpson kept his place, but surely Lee can't have any option but to drop him next week for Sonner. Walker was to blame I feel for both goals but I don't know how bad the sun was because the away end upper tier at the back hasn't got a good view of the sun!
Bazeley had his worst game in a Saddler's shirt because Tonge got past him down the left every time. Carbon was appaling and got taken off at HT for the unfit Roper and Aranalde was not at the races at all. Wrack tried his best and seemed to be the only man with passion and Corica also was very poor. Pedro in my opinion was a pointless replacement for O'Connor, it would have been better to bring on Zdrilic. Junior was lazy and obviously hasn't been educated in the meaning of the FA Cup, but I'm sure that he'll come good again, but he and Jorge are being marked out of the game I'm afraid.

If we play like that then we are going to be sucked into the relegation battle when we get back to First Division action and Colin Lee needs to give the lads a good kick in the backside because there was no motivation or pride.

If you didn't go to the game then you may think that I'm being just a little extreme, but any one who went would agree that that was probably our worst performance since WBA away last season.

By Jorge14 (195.93.32.161) on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 10:08 pm: Edit

PS

The fact that the players didn't even acknoledge the fans is a disgrace. Whether the away fans are "part-time" or go to nearly every away game it is a disgrace. They don't deserve to wear the shirt if they think that the fans don't deserve acknowledgment.

By Frank Stubbs (195.93.49.157) on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 11:01 pm: Edit

Ican normally find something constructive to say even in defeat,christ i have seen enough of them over the years and some far more spectacular than todays.I said a few weeks ago i thought it was pitch or players the former we have definitely got the latter is very very short.New blood is needed if today is used as a bench mark, for the rest of the season we are in the ••••.I hope there is some serious soul searching amongst our squad and the magnitude of their inept non display is bought home,there were players out there who should have gone last summer,when will we ever learn.As i said i can normally find something positive to say,the only thing i can say about today is BOLLOCKS......................
PS Jorge14,welcome to the world that it is Walsall away, at times it can be brilliant and the other times? well your starting to witness them.
Onwards and uowards

By Frank Stubbs (195.93.49.157) on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 11:02 pm: Edit

Ican normally find something constructive to say even in defeat,christ i have seen enough of them over the years and some far more spectacular than todays.I said a few weeks ago i thought it was pitch or players the former we have definitely got the latter is very very short.New blood is needed if today is used as a bench mark, for the rest of the season we are in the ••••.I hope there is some serious soul searching amongst our squad and the magnitude of their inept non display is bought home,there were players out there who should have gone last summer,when will we ever learn.As i said i can normally find something positive to say,the only thing i can say about today is BOLLOCKS......................
PS Jorge14,welcome to the world that it is Walsall away, at times it can be brilliant and the other times? well your starting to witness them.
Onwards and upwards

By Fish (81.135.117.82) on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 11:03 pm: Edit

Inept.

Three myths were exposed today. 1. This is the best squad Walsall have ever had; 2. we deserve to be in the top half of the league; 3. we are too good to go down.

Yes we had a bright start, but having cut open the blades defence with ease, we did not look in the remotest bit likely to score.

...and then we lost our way. There was no drive, no passion, no pace, no killer instinct (God, am I going to be embarrased when MoTD comes on at 11.30), and all of this against a Sheffield United side that were pretty poor, but didn't need to break sweat to see us off.

For me it was a cowardly performance, gutless with players(particularly our midfielders) refusing to take the game to the opposition, preferring to backtrack, slow the game to a crawl and, inevitably, give the ball away.

If this was Lee's masterplan to steal the game he should get back to the Guiness Book of Tactics , This defeat was Hawthornsesque,it was as bad, if not worse than Graydon's swansong at the Baggies last year. He produced a team without balance and without purpose or organisation, and God knows what Driller must think, he at least should have been given the last 15 mins, he could have done no worse.

Walker 6 Could have done better with both goals

Bazeley 6 OK, some aimless disribution

Aranadle 5 OK, ditto re distribution

Hay 6 OK

Carbon 6 (Injured) Disagree Jorge...I saw him as the pick of the back four (Just)

O'Connor 6 Missed him in the second half

Corica 5 Needs to be more effective

Simpson 3 Ineffective, with Wrack the source of many of the Blades attacks

Wrack 3 Ineffective, with Simpson, the source of many of the Blades attacks

Jorge 5 Worked hard - out of position on the right

Junior 4 Isolated and Ineffective (didn't receive a single decent pass all game)

Subs Ropes 6, Pedro 3

Ref 2 - Homer, one sided, lacking in consistency and fairness.

Attendance 2 - Sheffield, you should be ashamed if this is all that can turnout for a club supposedly on the verge of the premiership.

This was another inept performance, in fact a second division performance by a team heading there unless urgent steps are taken to stop the rot. It was a performance that had no redeeming features whatsoever.

The form tables do not tell lies, worryingly, I am begining to believe we do not have the personnel capable of securing our future in this division.

Perhaps I'll feel better tomorrow.

By Jonny Arbo (195.93.34.154) on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 11:32 pm: Edit

Spot on with everything Fish! Its a disgrace to Albert McPherson Colin Taylor and Tony Richards to say this is the best ever Walsall team. I also thought Carbon was our best defender today and why do we hit long balls to Junior when we know he cant head the ball

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.51.179) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 12:02 am: Edit

Agree with Fish with his ratings thats for sure. I still think this is one of the best Walsall teams on paper we have ever had, I just dont know the reason for our performances at times. Perhaps some of them need a good kick up the backside and a week without wages.

By Paul G (213.48.64.38) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 12:10 am: Edit

It is the best ever walsall team on paper. These players are the most experienced players at this level we have ever had. Individually they are fine but as a team it is not working.

It was pityful that in the 5th round of the cup our opponents beat us easily whilst never getting out of second gear. For too many of our squad it just looked like too much effort to get involved. Simpson, wrack, jorge all hiding. When will Jorge ever get a chance again let alone a goal?

I spent the whole week looking forward to this. Every spare moment thinking about the big cup game. I'll concentrate on my work more in the future.

By RushallSaddler (195.182.163.21) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 12:39 am: Edit

Have to agree with everyone we were really poor today, so disappointing, where was the passion and desire that some of the players were talking about in the press earlier in the week, it was sadly lacking out on the pitch, not one of the players came out of the game with any credit in my book and unless CL can bring in at least three new players of proven ability then I'm afraid to say we will fill one of the relegation places, because at the moment I just can't see us winning another game.

By Fish (81.135.6.22) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 02:04 am: Edit

It's tomorrow ! I still don't feel better, only the need to knock another point off Aranadle's rating after watching the 2 mins or so on MoTD (thank God they didn't show more).

By Moaning Saddler (217.44.83.73) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 04:19 am: Edit

Spineless & gutless performance.

Very impressed with the supporters who refused to even clap or boo at the end of the game - just filed out silently in total embarrassment at an inept display. A perfect reaction.

Our pretensions at being an established 1st Division club took a severe knock today - "plucky" Walsall were clueless against a team in the same division.

Lee's obsession with Corica and his abject failure to bring in any sort of cover for O'Connor in midfield is beginning to look like a recipe for disaster.

Not one Walsall player enhanced their reputation in this match.

What hurts most of all is that Mark Lawrenson was completely correct in dismissing us as being totally irrelevant to this competition.

By bournemouthsaddler (80.3.164.4) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 10:43 am: Edit

What hurts me most is to see BYFIELD hammer ROTHERHAM into a play off place! I think that the religation places will be Stoke, Grimsby and Bradford or us. I hate to see all the exciting loan players go to larger but bankrupt clubs.

By DF (213.48.84.36) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 11:49 am: Edit

I don't even want to start ranting about yesterday so I'll keep it brief.
1. When people start mentioning that 'you're too good to go down' it's usually because that's exactly where you're going.
2. We may have our best squad ever on paper but time and again this season they've been unable to produce it on grass (or mud)
3. Corica was no worse than anyone else yesterday - However we built the whole structure of the team around getting him on the pitch. For that reason alone we needed more from him
4. Jorge is no more of a right sided midfielder than me or Frank Stubbs. If Lee can't see than then he has major problems.
5. Are we a long ball side or a passing team? I think we're supposed to be a passing side but there appears little evidence of it of late.
6. Lee - Time is running out. Tactically inept, unsure of what system to use, unable to change the course of a game from the sidelines, his Corica obsession, results, league position (given the players he has at his disposal), performances, chances created, need I go on.
We're at Stoke a week on Wednesday in a must not lose game. Do I trust Lee to take us there and achieve this aim? No. Do you?

By Pelsall Saddler (195.92.168.170) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 12:15 pm: Edit

Unless we get some new faces in very quickly, I fear the worst. DF's point number one above is spot-on. I tried to explain to a Bristol City fan on Birmingham station yesterday that we are in a mess.
"No, no, you're too good to go down", he insisted.
We are not too good to go down, in fact, on that apalling showing yesterday, we look a good bet for the drop.
That was a game that we could have won, if we had shown enough bottle. We were second best to an average side that simply wanted it more, but it's looked like that to me for a few games now.
We concede posession far too easily, we are bereft of ideas going forward, and constantly lose out in midfield. What is Simpson doing in a First Division team? He looks about good enough for The Conference. Why did Lee bring Pedro on? He contributed next to nothing, and is another who I feel is not up to this standard. Take MO'C out of the midfield and we have nothing.
I know Lee is struggling to attract quality players to Bescot - Jansen, Huckerby are just two who didn't fancy us, but our only chance of First Division survival is some new faces, and quickly.

By Jorge14 (195.93.33.171) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 12:34 pm: Edit

LOL at the Mercury sport section. They have put Bazeley and Corica in the team of the week, there must have been some poor performances from other clubs then.

I hate to say this but Jimmy Walker is going to be hard pressed to keep his number 1 spot for the rest of the season if he puts in performances like he has done these past few games.

My dad, who was sitting in the Sheffield end, said that Lee was moaning at the officials all through the match so it looks like he should have got sent off. Also, it wasn't just the players who had no fight, the bench was subdued. Am I alone in thinking that something went on in the dressing room before the match?

By Geordiesaddler (195.92.67.67) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 12:58 pm: Edit

If Craig Stanley, Kris Taylor, Mark Wright etc etc are any worse than the likes of Simpson then they shouldn't be on the payroll. It's time these players were given am opportunity to show what they can do, and time for the players who are living in the WFC comfort zone to have a spell in the reserves before being shipped out of the club at the end of the season. Unlike some ot the above I believe CL will sort things out.

By Meir Stoke (195.92.194.15) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 02:22 pm: Edit

Yes Im watching boys, just waiting, biding my time. Why was your away-end half-empty yesterday? 800 at a FAC 5 game?

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.34.154) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 02:30 pm: Edit

Meir Soke - Go away you sh*t for brains d*ckhead!

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.34.154) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 02:30 pm: Edit

Of course Lee will sort it out. He just needs to look at people like Simpson, not been interested since he got a contract. People like Matias when we could be giving Wright another chance!

By Geoff Whiting (195.92.168.168) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 03:11 pm: Edit

Meir Sjoke, having sold 4000 tickets for Sheff Utd do you seriously think 3,200 of those people stayed at home - where the hell do you get your "facts" from.

Why do you come on here taking the p**s when your own pathetic club has no hope of survival, the only question is who's going down with you and Wendy, and yes it might even be us but the disappointment would at least be somewhat relieved in knowing that you s**t-for brains" lot are heading back where fans like you deserve your club to be !

Just p**s off back to the Oatcake and stay there !

By Salop Saddler (213.78.116.115) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 03:40 pm: Edit

Back to your cave Mire Stoke. Your dinosaur ribs should be stewed by now.

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.51.166) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 04:13 pm: Edit

Very good Salop. I am beginning to like your posts. :o)

By Salop Saddler (213.78.116.177) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 04:21 pm: Edit

Lol. Next time i'm up at Owlerton we must have drink or three, cheers Sheff.

By hullsaddler (213.249.160.160) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 05:00 pm: Edit

On reflection,I think the players must have been thinking that the game was over 2 legs & were settling for 0-2.The only evidence that some of them were playing yesterday is that their names are in the team sheets in this morning's papers.Hope they are more committed when I see them next at Valley Parade.

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.51.161) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 05:07 pm: Edit

OK Salop. You mean the dogs at Owlerton? I usually go there a few times a month.

By Salop Saddler (213.78.108.138) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 06:13 pm: Edit

That's the one. I was there on Friday. I've got to do a piece on me old mate Chalie Lister in a couple of weeks time, so I'll be back there then. Charlie trained a couple of nice open race dogs for me a couple of years ago. One of them, Lissenair Luke, loved the place. He won me more silverware around there than the Blades and Wednesday have won between them in their entire combined history's!

By Shifnalsaddler (213.1.45.10) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 07:37 pm: Edit

Yesterday was the first time in over thirty years as a fan that I have left a game early, I walked out and went to the bar area for a while, then left ground. When you think of some of the rubbish I've seen in the last thirty years, that is saying something.

Clueless, spineless, gutless, guileless.

Some of those players, I'm not convinced how much they care. In the hurricane game at Stockport, I was near the tunnel when the players came off, having conceded a late equaliser, you could see Wrack, Jimmy and others really felt terrible, and Ada looked devastated. Some of that lot yesterday, you think they cared one tenth as much as I did? Or as you did? I don't think so.

Simply disgraceful, the worst I have ever seen.

Sheff Utd are no great shakes, Brown is class, Ndlovu is skilful but inconsistent, but really they are the same as us. The difference being they are well organised, play to their strengths and every player looks sure of what his job is, and my God, they work hard.

I wish I could go cold turkey and give it up. Yesterday was too much, even for me.

By Stu (195.92.67.68) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 09:05 pm: Edit

Spot on Shifnal. I'm never really one for leaving games early, but I walked out on the Leicester game with 10 minutes to go and then did the same yesterday.
The passion seems non-existent, or maybe its confidence. I still don't think we'll go down, but thats more because the 4 teams below us are poor rather than because we're good enough.

Its difficult to believe that before Xmas those exact 11 players were creating chances galore and scoring for fun (we were also conceding for fun as well). But, at the moment I can't see where goals are going to come from.

But, most worryingly, at times we look like long ball merchants. Its fair enough hoofing it long to clear your lines, but when you've got time on the ball there shouldn't be any need, espeically when neither of our forwards are too good in the air. And the other thing is something I've been harping on about all season, possession. We always seem to want to get rid of the ball early, we don't seem to be prepared to go backwards and sideways and just keep possession and its then when we resort to a long hoof.
If we're going to play with Corica in that hole, then we have to keep it on the deck and have some movement and runs but even Jorge and Junior don't seem to be making the runs they were making 2 months ago.
It was obvious yseterday that we were crying out for some width and pace, why persist with Matias, I'd much rather see us look at Mark Wright. Who was superb at Sheff Utd in the league match this season but now seems out of the first team picture.

Also, one of todays Tabloids reckons Michael Branch is going to turn down a loan move to Walsall, doesn't say why though although I'd be disappointed if we couldn't attract Branch as his got nowt' else open to him.

By Geoff Whiting (195.92.168.168) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 09:48 pm: Edit

Stu, I think if you'll look back, the time we were creating loads of chances and "scoring for fun" was a long time before Xmas, the Sjoke game on November 2nd was the last of that spell.

We did get 2 goals (but no points) away at both Wimbledon and Portsmouth later that month, but I think the "scoring for fun" description had well and truly expired by then.

We also got 3 against Grimsby and 2 against Wimbledon in home wins in December but I recall that we rather stumbled through those games if we're honest.

In reality the problems of not creating enough chances and not scoring enough goals has been with us for 3 months, so we've had more than enough time to see the problems and take the steps to address them.

By Blobbyh (195.93.32.164) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 11:23 pm: Edit

Lets face it we've been sussed.
Teams now know that we will knock it about well enough but rarely threaten. We take 10-15 passes to get to the opposition box and then hardly force a save. Whereas other teams attack with pace, playing sharp direct passes to players making incisive runs.
Junior is not a target man, he is not quick, he is totally one footed and if I can see it then every defender in the land can see it! He offers no support for Jorge who is suffering because he seems to be playing out of position. Zdrillic was brought in to complement Jorge and has scored goals consistently in the few appearences he has made - he does n't spend half the game praying to the ref for half baked fouls because defenders now know they can simply muscle him off the ball - play him.

By popperpancake (81.79.24.141) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 11:33 pm: Edit

Poor performance. Strange shape to our side. Why persist in playing people out of position? Bazeley was left exposed against tonge. Simpson should be given away now. No-one played well. It was also the first time i have ever left a game early (apart from crystal palace at home..but that was hardly leaving early). Rubbish.

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.51.169) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 11:47 pm: Edit

Well I must admit. I am surprised anyone was left in the away end yesterday after 90 minutes. Most people on this board including myself left early. And as with most of you I cant remember the last time I did this.
I am just so sad with 3500+ people behind them we couldnt do anything. I have watched most of the FA Cup matches this weekend and all of the teams involved showed a million times more passion and belief than us, especially the away teams who lost like Norwich and Rochdale. If only our starting 11 would have played with passion like they did.
So So So So disappointed, even now.

By jen cox (81.135.48.100) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 10:29 am: Edit

We stayed until the final whistle. The fans walked out in total silence the team didn't even bother to thank us for travelling to support them. After watching the guts and determination of Rochdale last night I am even more disappointed with our 'efforts'.

By Lee (195.92.194.13) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 10:33 am: Edit

Sheff Utd had struggled all week with left back problems, so what do we do? Play our best right winger on the left and our best(?) forward on the right wing!! I dont feel inspired to go on Saturday.

By Stu (212.137.33.208) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 11:37 am: Edit

Geoff, not really convinced by that comment that we stopped scoring after the Stoke game.
We've only scored 5 in our last 9, but if you go back to the previous 9 before that (starting with Franchise on the 16/11) we scored 13 in 9. Failing to score in just 1 game at home to Sheff Utd. (Franchise 2, Gills 1, Pompey 2, Grimsby 3, Franchise 2, Norwich 1, Blades 0, Ipswich 2). 13 goals in 9 games is pretty good going and we were still creating chances in those games, Blades at home apart.

So the goals didn't dry up since the Stoke game at home, in fact, in the 9 game sequence that ends with the Stoke game, we scored 16 in 9 matches. Thats only 3 more than the successive period of same games. So goals haven't dried up since the Stoke game.

The point I was trying to make is that chances have now dried up, that is the worry. Its like the Owen situation, Owen hasn't scored for a while but he is still getting the chances. You'd be more worried if he wasn't even getting chances. And that is our concern.

What looks like a lack of passion is a real lack of self-belief and confidence in my opinion, espeically going forward.

By Jorge14 (195.93.49.12) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 11:55 am: Edit

Wow, what a surprise it is to see Mier Sjoke come crawling back out of the woodork, twerp that he is.

I'd just like to compliment him on his sides poor display against an underperforming Chelsea side last night.

Mier Sjoke, come Sunday May 4th at 3 pm, you'll be safe in the knowledge that you will, once again, be playing in the LDV Vans trophy next season and entering the FA Cup at the first round. And if we go down then fair play, we were just as crap as you, but if not, we'll be seeing you cry on the telly.

By Geordiesaddler (213.205.138.250) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 01:17 pm: Edit

Still no match reaction from the manager or the club? Very, very poor. The least we desrve is an apology for the inept display and the lack of acknowledgement from the players.

By RushallSaddler (217.207.41.4) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 01:27 pm: Edit

Its too quiet, could something be brewing behind the scenes, another knee-jerk reaction from Mr Bonsor maybe - I doubt it, still it would be nice for the someone from the club to offer the 3,500 fans some sort of apology for that utterly useless performance on Saturday, especially after all the hype leading up to the match and comments saying how important the match was and the players were all up for it - what a load of b*****ks that was - shocking PR on behalf of the club me thinks

By Geoff Whiting (195.92.168.169) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 01:50 pm: Edit

Stu I understand what you mean and obviously as I was posting earlier I'd looked back at all those games you've mentioned including the 2 goals we got in each of those defeats at Pompey and Ipswich, in fact I referred to Pompey in my post. But I still don't think those later games come within my definition of "scoring for fun". But it really depends where you draw the line I suppose.

For me, I'm thinking back to games where we were really dominant and convincing up front, Sjoke and particularly games before that where we were looking like scoring more or less all of the time. Perhaps the best example was against Palace, we were 2 up in 11 minutes, and by 20 minutes we should have been 5 or 6 up and no question. It was the best attacking performance I'd seen from a Walsall side in years. Only miraculous goal-keeping and amazing bad-luck kept us out in that game and amazingly, unjustly and tragically we somehow ended up losing it 4-3 with that Andy Johnson goal in the last few seconds.

That kind of performance dried up with Sjoke, and even in that game, if you recall, we were 3-0 up and then went off the boil and slipped back to 3-2 before wrapping it up at 4-2 late on. Since then we've been nowhere near as convincing up-front, or in midfield for that matter. I'd say it coincided with the criticism we kept getting about our inability to defend, and all the points we were throwing away 'cos we couldn't hold on to a lead - CL changed the system and managed to shore up the defence, but the goals dried up at the other end too.

I still don't think we've created as many good chances ever since that Sjoke game, before that we were looking exciting going forward and capable of scoring more or less every time we attacked - but even then we didn't put away a good enough percentage of chances or we'd have been home and dry by now without the relegation worries that we have now.

The fact we may have scored almost as many times in those later games may mean we've put away a higher percentage of chances, but we certainly weren't as exciting or creative in December against the likes of Gillingham, the Franchise or Grimsby, we struggled against all three although in each case we came out on top.

While I acknowledge that we kept getting results until Xmas (3 home wins in 4 in December), for me the same level of attacking performance and excitement was just not there after Sjoke.

By Stu (212.137.33.208) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 02:14 pm: Edit

Yeah, I do agree. We haven't been that same team, but to be honest to shore up at the back means you will lose something going forward. So its only logical that we were going to lose something. But, even in those games (Ipswich, Pompey, Norwich et al) we created chances to score more. Obviously not as many as before, but chances none the less.
Where as, at the moment we can't create chances full stop.

That level of early season performance and excitement had to stop at some point, we couldn't carry on like that as we were really conceding far too many. I think that spell between the Stoke game and before the New Year we looked better, still creating chances and defendingly slightly (just slightly though) better. Where as now, we can't score and after a decent defensive spell, we can't defend either. The last 6 goals we've conceded against Leicester and Sheff Utd could all be put down to individual mistakes or lack of concentration.

Maybe some of these players need a damn good roasting. The papers still were tending to talk about how good they are at times and how we should be higher up the table. As a result, maybe they took their foot off the gas. A good roasting may bring them back down to earth and make them realise they have to work for it.

In the meantime, some sort of comment from WFC would be nice, even if it was "Sorry you wasted your money on that shower on Saturday." The complete wall of silence is insulting to the 3000-3500 that made that trip on Saturday.

By Tim Wilkes (213.2.51.198) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 02:38 pm: Edit

Very poor.....a crummy weekend in Sheffield, the crowning turd in the water pipe being the worst curry I've ever had [though this was run close by the twerp gits who turned up 10 mins late and shouted pissed abuse for most of the 1st half until told to shut it by police].

Perhaps, as part of Jimmy's testimonial package, someone should buy him a peaked cap?

By popperpancake (195.224.209.136) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 04:48 pm: Edit

Warnock says on guardian unlimited site that sheff utds wage bill is under £3m per year, which presumably means is just under that figure. He describes this as not very big and one of the bottom six in the division. Did Lee say ours was £1.2m or have i made that up?

By Stu (212.137.33.208) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 05:26 pm: Edit

Popper, our entire 'football budget" was £2.5m, revealed by Lee not too long ago. But, that had to include travel costs (hotels, coaches petrol, matchday food et al) and even "bottles of Lucozade" as Lee put it.

With regards to how much of that £2.5m is players wages, I haven't the foggiest...

By popperpancake (195.224.209.36) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 05:48 pm: Edit

I made it up didn't I.

By everready (62.60.124.52) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 06:24 pm: Edit

What a wasted journey. Sheffield were better by more than two goals. Walker was suspect with the save and is looking more and more shaky. We just did not perform and there are no excuses

By Besty (62.60.124.52) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 06:30 pm: Edit

Who was that who gave Wrack a 3 mark. Was that his total for the season so far? and Walker Now I know how he got his name!
Where on earth did this myth come from 'the best Walsall squad ever'. If they were digging allotments or selling programmes I might be able to agree.
A shake up is needed if we stay up?

By Geoff Whiting (195.92.168.171) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 06:46 pm: Edit

Besty, a shake-up is needed NOW, just so we can try to stay up mate !!

By Ian Gittins (213.165.1.130) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 06:48 pm: Edit

If we stay up, I reckon we need to look to bring through a few good youngsters - Taylor, Stanley, Wright, Bishop need a chance - plus sign a couple of good central midfielders. Who can go? Probably Simpson, Matias, Barras, Ward and, I hate to say it, O'Connor (on age grounds).

By Frank Stubbs (195.93.33.169) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 07:08 pm: Edit

With the exception of O'Connor the above players should have gone last summer.Martin Oc has got another season in him,but his sucessor needs to be found and groomed ready for that day.Why cant we sign a decent second keeper to keep Jimmy on his toes instead of anybody just to make the numbers up.Still very pissed off from saturday,normally out of my system by now,big of the club to apologise for saturday.....Why dont they run subsidised(YEAH REALLY) travel to Stoke,Bradford,Grimsby so as many Saddlers as poss are there to support the team, i wonder if its because no revenue for them will be made from these trips mmmmmmm cynical or right?

By Phil_G (195.92.168.173) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 07:34 pm: Edit

The problem with the keeper is that no-one is gonna come to Walsall to warm the bench.
Looking at his record for the last 9 years, Jimmy has played at probably the most consistently highest level of any of our squad. Allied to the fact he hasn't suffered many serious injuries, and is the darling of the crowd, anyone else who is good enough to replace him is probably good enough to get a job somewhere else for a lot more money and a guaranteed game come Saturday afternoon.

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.34.157) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 08:48 pm: Edit

Besty - What matches have you been to this season? Wrack in my opinion as been one of the most consistent players all season for us. He has played well in a variety of positions and is one of the players I would have in my side every week.
Walker is the best goalkeeper I have ever seen at Walsall, no doubt if he was a few inch taller he would be playing in the premiership now. The saves I have seen this bloke pull off week after week after week have been beyond belief at times.
If you want to question any players ability over the season than I would suggest Walker and Wrack are the least most likely candidates.

By Geordiesaddler (195.92.194.15) on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 12:24 am: Edit

The thing about this team being the most successful ever isn't a myth or a matter of opinion, it is something that will become a matter of fact should they achieve a finish of 13th or above this season, that is what measures success irrespective of any of the other variables that get trotted out on message boards such as the lack of cash at modern day Sheff Wed versus the speed of Colin Taylor's shots. As it stands they still have a bit to do to get that high come May, but even if they stay up it will be the first time in the modern history of the club that we have managed three successive years at this level, still a bit to do there as well. Why is this so difficult for some people to get their heads round the fact that this constitutes success when mapped against the previous 113 seasons?

By Shifnalsaddler (62.7.153.80) on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 12:25 am: Edit

Can't be arsed to argue about Wrack all over again, but those who are having a go at Walker must have very short memories. If not for Jimmy we wouldn't have been in the fourth round, let alone fifth, because we'd have lost to Reading at Bescot.
And if not for Jimmy a fortnight ago we would at the moment be one point ahead of Brighton.

It's been a strange weekend, I'm even agreeing with Sheff now.

Tim W, I had a very good curry on saturday night, although Shifnal is probably a bit far for you to come just for a balti.

By Tim Wilkes (213.2.51.198) on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 10:21 am: Edit

Shif, I had a bizare night all round.....but I'm pretty sure that Tandoori King Prawns are NOT supposed to be served in a coating of breadcrumbs, and that nan bread is NOT meant to be stuffed with Cheddar Cheese!

By Geoff Whiting (195.92.168.168) on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 11:10 am: Edit

Tim, according to my menu from the brilliant Indian take-away in Heath Hayes (a few miles from me but worth the journey), there is a Cheese Nan available, it's in the Nan section just below Keema Nan if that helps !

Personally I think I prefer the Keema, though I have to say I've never fancied trying the cheese one so I can't say for sure. Doesn't say if it's Cheddar though, could be New Delhi Stilton for all I know !

Has anyone else noticed that sometimes this message board is like reading pages from Viz magazine. LoL

By Biffa Bacon (62.31.205.61) on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 12:49 pm: Edit

Yes especially the ones where they go on about viz not being funny anymore.

By Dave Roe (217.37.14.234) on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 02:48 pm: Edit

Geoff, try the Bengal Cottage in Bloxwich (opposite Bloxwich Memorial Club). It's superb mate (and a lot closer than Heath Hayes).


By cheesed off nan (212.229.191.195) on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 05:28 pm: Edit

Geoff, what do you swill it down with "GRIPE water"

By geoffwhiting (195.92.168.174) on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 02:09 am: Edit

Thanks Dave, but as for "a lot closer than Heath Hayes", doesn't that depend on where you're starting from mate ? LoL

I'm in Brownhills, so the Jasmine in Heath Hayes ain't that far, probably for me about the same or a little closer than Harrison Street, Bloxwich.

On your recommendation though, the Bengal Cottage will be tested in the near future mate. Thanks for that, much appreciated.

By Messex (194.70.199.62) on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 09:31 am: Edit

Abdul's - down by the Leamore Rosum (?!?) Bingo Hall used to be quite good - years ago.

Or King Balti on Bridge Street in Walsall.

By cheesed off (212.229.191.195) on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 10:10 am: Edit

ABDULS, this has got to be top of the Premier league as far as Balti houses go.
Respect to Abdul. You can always have a nice quite drink across the road in the Butlers or Black Horse prior to eating, you are always guaranteed a nice friendly welcome!!!!

By Geoff Whiting (195.92.168.164) on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 10:15 am: Edit

Messex,I never stop near the Rosum, except for red traffic lights ! Last time I stopped there this local walking out of Blakenall Lane started verbally abusing me about my car - I think 'cos it had no rust, all body panels the same colour and matching wheels and tyres.

I couldn't decide if he was genuinely short of most of his brain cells, or just a hooligan. I'm assuming the former, as he didn't hurl anything at the car as I responded and drove off.

King Balti on Bridge Street was fine, but haven't tried there for some time.

By Chris Owen (217.205.220.2) on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 10:51 am: Edit

Sharmin Balti in Caldmore was always a good one when I lived a little closer to home.

Fensaddler

By Tim Wilkes (213.2.51.198) on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 11:10 am: Edit

India Cottage, Fulham High St..top notch, not expensive.

Sitar, Aldwych/Strand...as above, added bonus that you can drink Cobra all afternoon.

Tamarind, Mayfair..very expensive, food OK, waitresses to die for.

By Joe90 (194.60.38.11) on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 01:24 pm: Edit

India Cottage is v. good.
You can't beat Brick Lane for Baltis though.

By Pete (218.102.23.28) on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 02:28 pm: Edit

The Shalimar, Tai Po

if you happen to be in HK

By Geoff Whiting (195.92.168.177) on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 08:58 pm: Edit

Looks like I'd better get the A to Z out then lads - anyone know where they do a Hong Kong A to Z by the way ?

By Pelsall Sadd;er (195.92.168.165) on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 08:59 pm: Edit

Golden Moments, Ablewell St,
Not cheap, but a superb curry, and Carlsberg Export on Draught.

By Geoff Whiting (195.92.168.175) on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 09:23 pm: Edit

We should all meet up for a curry then one of these nights lads. Plenty of venues above it seems.

Returning to the usual subject matter, football, Pelsall Saddler, any idea what that new Cantonese take away is like, just in Pelsall Lane by the Rushall traffic lights - ever tried it mate ? Or maybe Rushall Saddler might know.

OK that's enough about decent food - so, has anyone got any comments on Pizza Parlours ! LoL

By RushallSaddler (195.182.163.31) on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 11:18 pm: Edit

Geoff, Its not bad mate, we've had a few meals from there over the past couple of months, its open plan Geoff, you can watch them cook your meal while you wait, in fact we called in on Saturday night on the way back from you know where, enjoyed the meal a lot more than the football unfortuantely.

By Chris Owen (217.205.220.2) on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 10:41 am: Edit

Geoff, had one meal from there just after it opened when visiting my family - was OK, and good portions. Best Chinese / Cantonese takeaway in that neck of the woods though is the one on the road into Aldridge from Stubbers Green - on the right as you head into Aldridge.

Fensaddler

By geoff (80.177.14.124) on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 03:58 pm: Edit

Chris, is that the one that used to be the SuperChippy a few years back, almost opposite the end of Leighswood Road is it, lies back behind a small forecourt ?

By Chris Owen (217.205.220.2) on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 05:53 pm: Edit

Sounds like the one, though I don't know what it used to be called - I've not lived in Walsall since early 94. Definitely sits back on a small forecourt that you can pull up on. Well worth a try, especially if you like lamb dishes.

Fensaddler

By Chris Owen (217.205.220.2) on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 06:47 pm: Edit

Checked the map - on Leighswood Road, just before you get to the Middlemoor Lane turning on your right.

Fensaddler

By geoff (80.177.14.124) on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 07:17 pm: Edit

That's the one I thought - cheers for that Chris

By RushallSaddler (195.182.163.41) on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 07:56 pm: Edit

There's also a good Cantonese/Chinese up Daw End Lane in Rushall, but you can only go up as far as the Royal Oak as the Road upto the Whitehouse is closed - has been for months cos the road caved in.

By Geoff Whiting (195.92.168.163) on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 10:56 pm: Edit

Yeah I remember that one Rushall, always used to be good, haven't tried it for years though. I must renew acquaintance with them too.

When are they gonna fix Daw End Lane Rushall, Rushall ? It must have been closed for close-on a year now, maybe more. It bloody amazes me how they can find endless pots of money to lay speed bumps all over the place, but can't fix the holes in the roads. I mean half the roads they're traffic-calming are so rough you'd wreck your suspension if you drove at more than 25mph, talk about a waste of money.

And tonight Walsall Council look like approving a 20% rise in our Council Tax - thank God they're not going above the inflation rate !!!!!!

Anyway lads, that'll do nicely thank you, you've sorted out my meals for at least the next fortnight and the wife's happy 'cos she says she ain't gorra cook for two weeks.

LoL

By Tim Wilkes (213.2.51.198) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 11:24 am: Edit

I know that this is gonna make me out to be some sort of part-timer/traitor etc but.....our balti Pies..are they actually any good..I've never had one?

By Messex (194.70.199.62) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 02:53 pm: Edit

Not as good as our chicken & mushroom pies.
Mmmm...chicken & mushroom !

By Chris Owen (217.205.220.2) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 02:59 pm: Edit

They're alright, better in myth than reality.

Fensaddler

By Joe90 (194.60.38.11) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 04:01 pm: Edit

On the subject of food, it was suggested a while back (Possibly by Tim, but I can't honestly remember) that all the London based Saddlers should meet up for a pint and a curry.

Anyone up for it?

By Geoff Whiting (195.92.168.169) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 04:28 pm: Edit

Tim, the Balti Pies are superb.

I know people are often wary of pies in case they contain crap meat, fat and other undesirable bits and pieces, and I'm very finnicky about that too, but I've had quite a few Balti Pies over the last year or two and they have always been great, proper chicken, never any scraps. My only one small complaint was at one match the pie they sold me was not hot enough, but that's not the pie's fault is it, and it was exchanged without question when I took it back to the kiosk.

I even buy extras at the match to take back for the lads in my local - they love 'em.

Meat and Potato and Chicken & Mushrom also excellent, haven't tried the Cake and Sidney so can't comment.

I shall definitely starve myself at the office in the morning to make room for my Chicken Balti Pie tomorrow afternoon - no doubt !

By Tim Wilkes (213.2.51.198) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 04:55 pm: Edit

Geoff....I've heard that the ones containing kidney are offal.

An open goal for bored, Friday afternoon punsters....

By Chris Owen (217.205.220.2) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 05:52 pm: Edit

Like our strikers, we frequently fail to hit an open goal.

Fensaddler

By Geoff Whiting (195.92.168.163) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 07:20 pm: Edit

Tim, the steak and kidney are always the hardest ones to "analyse" - I mean chicken is pretty clearly chicken, same with mushroom, potato etc., but that beef and especially the kidney, well sometimes it's not so easy to tell as you rightly point out.

Steak and kidney are also infinitely more dangerous pies - best avoided. Full of really runny boiling hot gravy, the moment you bite into 'em the gravy scalds your lips and mouth. Should definitely carry a health warning - something along the lines of "Fire Risk".

At risk of boring everyone to death (again!), I recall having one at a Wolves game I attended with some mates last season. All other pies had sold out, so at the end of half-time my mate appeared from the bowels of the stand with a pie for me of the S&K variety. Not wishing to appear ungrateful I accepted his generous (??) gesture. Holding the pie in my right hand, I bit into it (the pie that is, not the hand), scalded my lip, shouted in pain, and as my right hand came up (reflex) to my mouth the pie was thrown up in the air and I watched as it sailed into the air in front of my eyes, and as it came down it was heading straight for this Wolves fan in the seat in front of me. In that split second everything went into slow-motion - calculating the trajectory instantly, I worked out that the pie was going straight down the back of the collar of the guy's Wolves top, spilling boiling hot gravy all down his neck and back. I had a vision of him turning round to me saying "I say I say old boy, that's a jolly naughty thing to do, just don't jolly-well do it again or else!" - as all Dingle fans would of course ! In that instant my left hand came across and grabbed the pie out of the air, and I caught it the right way up - never spilled a drop and the bloke in front never knew that he'd been saved from a very painful (and messy) experience ! My mate next to me just stood there looking amazed, he said he couldn't believe I'd caught it, and it's still a frequent topic of conversation at our local - sad I know, but we've nothing better to talk about !

Anyway that's another little snippet from the Whiting catalogue of football memories, and I promise you it's true !

So Tim, the moral of the story is - whatever you do, BEWARE THE S & K !!

By Tim Wilkes (213.2.51.198) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 07:30 pm: Edit

OK, that does it. I now know for sure that Geoff is on drugs.

By Geoff Whiting (195.92.168.168) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 09:18 pm: Edit

LoL, no I'm not Tim, my mother always told me taking drugs was an "offal" thing to do.

Well you started it with that "offal" joke at 3.55pm mate ! All I did was continue the theme.

By Exile (203.96.111.237) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 05:55 am: Edit

Humour - put your "heart" into it Geoff, and you'll be sure to "liver" long time. What tripe! I can't stomach another offal pun thread, can I?

Best Indian - Kingfisher on Mount Smart Rd, Onehunga.
Best Asian - Mai Thai on Wellesley St. East, City
Best Chinese - with so many in town take your pick!
Best Pies - Ponsonby Pies, from their shop, in Ponsonby Road, (you guessed it) Ponsonby.
Best totty-spotting - Degree Gastrobar, Viaduct Harbour (next to the Big Boat).

All in Auckland, if you'd not guessed.

Cheers all
Exile

By Ian Gittins (213.123.118.248) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 02:50 pm: Edit

Tim, Geoff's not on drugs, just pie-eyed.

By Geoff Whiting (195.92.168.163) on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 01:43 am: Edit

I can offer no defence.

Guilty as charged - it's a fair cop !!

By Shifnalsaddler (62.6.129.4) on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 11:32 am: Edit

Tim W, curry watch time. Another nice one last night, at a different place, though still Shifnal.
Are you sure it's too far to come? None of your congestion charge nonsense here, and only a three hour drive back to Landun afterwards.

By Tim Wilkes (213.2.51.198) on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 11:43 am: Edit

Congestion charge nonsense? I think it's fab! I've even started using the buses again now.
[I should perhaps give the above some perspective by admitting that I a not a car owner; can't see the point, living where I currently do].
Back to the serious issue - curry. I was lucky enough to spend much of last Thursday afternoon in Sitar, on The Strand.....Goan Fish Curry, Crab Curry, more Cobra Beer than is wise.
Now, Bradford on Saturday....surely I can get a good curry in Bradford?
Suggestions, please.

By Ian (213.165.1.130) on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 05:39 pm: Edit

You're mad going to Sitar on Thursday. Sitarday is much better.

And asking for help to locate a Ruby in Bradford - who are you to attempt to curry favour?

By Dinel Opley (195.195.45.20) on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 06:00 pm: Edit

As poor as we were against sheffield, did we get a desision all day, yet another poor refereeing display for me

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