Welcome. This site is an archived version of the previous UpTheSaddlers forum (December 2004 to May 2018). To visit the new UTS website, please click here.

Sunderland (h) - League - 3rd March 2004

Reports and reaction from the 2003-04 season as Walsall finished 22nd (R) in Division 1
User avatar
Andy
UTS Regular
 
Posts: 128
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:55 am
Location: Willenhall

Sunderland (h) - League - 3rd March 2004

Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:14 pm

By MarkW (81.136.4.6) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 02:56 pm: Edit

After tonights defeat and with Derby probably beating Crewe we will bo out of the bottom 3 on goal difference (presuming Sunderland don't hammer us).So Saturday evening I predict that we willl enter the drop zone never to return!
Anybody else feel as confident as me?

By gazza (138.253.244.76) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 04:19 pm: Edit

doesnt look gud mate does it. fearin the worst. colin lee has lost the plot we need to sort it out. we have 2 decent players jimmy n jorge. the rest wudnt get in a div 3 team. we're awful.
sort it out lads

By Dave Roe (217.37.14.235) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 04:41 pm: Edit

Anyone know if they still hand out parking tickets on the retail park, even on a night match ?

I don't fancy getting soaked walking/running from Morrisons !

By Me2 (195.92.168.170) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 05:04 pm: Edit

Dave, not usually on a night match.

By james sadler (195.92.168.164) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 05:10 pm: Edit

gazza how can you possibly say that? First and foremost, Leitao as much of a hero as he is is a very average division one forward. Sure he works hard but we need goals not off target shots and a few corners that nothing comes from. Jimmy is and always will be a legend and a great keeper. So where do Ritchie, Wrack, Samways, Wales, Emblen, Carbon, Aaron Kerr and Merson (when he finally returns) fit? Are you saying that they are 3rd division standard? Maybe on form they could be classed as 3rd division standard but on our day we can hold our own against any team in this division.

I'm looking for 3 points tonight in order to get our season back on track. If we get them, I think that it will be a turning point and we should be fine. If we lose/draw, it won't be a massive shame as Sunderland have some real quality as they showed against Blues.

By gazza (138.253.119.104) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 05:32 pm: Edit

we r dreadful mate. jorge is a consistant striker has the heart n gets the goals here n there. jimmy without doubt is our best player every week gettin man of the match, without him we wud b rock bottom by now it showed when he was suspended we were lettin in the goals all ova the shop. merson indeed is a gud player but hes got too many problems, emblem doesnt no whether he is comin or goin god knows how he gets in the team, wrack hasnt been turnin it on, samways doesnt wanner play for us nemore so y do we continue to play him? and aaron kerr is just ther incase jimmy cant play. paul ritchie havent sin him play a gud game recently. On current form we r bad n sumthin needs to be sorted. i am hopin for a result tonight but its gonna b very tricky. we have some big games comin up west ham, gillingham away, palace away n wimbo at home we need to sort it out otherwise we r down.
i have no faith in the current team we need to bring some class in. come on gary wales great signin?he didnt even get a start at hearts. we need a decent striker hes bin around the block bagged the goals, what about another bret angel or andy rammell we saw how gud they were for us.a player whos bin ther done that.

lets sort it out come on u saddlers.

By james sadler (195.92.168.164) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 05:43 pm: Edit

And how do you suggest paying for this? We aren't in division 2 any more and all the decent strikers we have been in for decide to join Sjoke (usually). Aaron Kerr is exactly that, a replacement should Jimmy choose to leave. Sure he's young but he looks a class act. Emblen can't help not being picked in a regular slot, he's a utility player and at least he's getting games at Walsall unlike Norwich. Samways wants to play for Walsall because no-one else wanted him, but he's still a good player when not injured. Wrack has been injured sure, but he looked good before the injury. And since Jimmy's return, we haven't been shipping many goals (except Forest). What we need is goals, and that will come partly as Wales gets match fitness and hopefully with a new striker of the ilk you described.

I just don't see it happening though.

By President Abraham Lincoln (81.132.19.191) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 05:45 pm: Edit

Inspirational. How can I compete?

Gettysburg Schmettysburg.

By SheffieldSaddler (82.38.185.114) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 05:56 pm: Edit

gazza - Your comment reference 2 decent players doesnt even deserve a response as its so stupid.
CL and all of us would also love a "decent striker whose bin around the block bagged the goals" BUT they cost money!

By james sadler (195.92.168.164) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 06:03 pm: Edit

Yeah why don't we go and sign that Shearer chap from Newcastle, i've heard good things about him and he doesn't even make their 1st team anymore!

By Stu (195.92.67.209) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 10:30 pm: Edit

What will it take for Bonser to realise that we need to spend some ••••••• cash.

Our subs bench tonight;

Mark Wright (who has the physical presence of a granny according to my old man's match reports via the phone)
Gavin Caines (just returned from a loan spell at the mighty Stafford Rangers)
Matty Fryatt (17 years old, we can't rely on this lad to dig us out of a hole)
Andy Pettersson (say no more)
Pedro Matias (say no more).

Had to start with two players who weren't fit in Corica and Wrack.

We're going down unless we get 3/4 players in very quickly.

Glad to see you really want Division 1 footy Mr Bonser! Tossa.

By realist (195.93.34.9) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 11:00 pm: Edit

Doncaster, here we come...

By Steve Roy (81.77.185.181) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 11:05 pm: Edit

I think we're gone. Will see for myself by the spirit and performance on show at West Ham. But ultimately looks as though the budget cuts will cost us. Kenilworth Road next season!

By realist (195.93.34.9) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 11:09 pm: Edit

...and Belle Vue....

By Surrey Saddler (195.93.34.9) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 11:10 pm: Edit

There seems to be a mood of inevitability on this board, even resignation. Steve Roy has hit the nail on the head. All being well I shall be at West Ham. But what can we hope for there?

By Surrey Saddler (195.93.34.9) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 11:13 pm: Edit

Even my Forest supporting sons have stopped taking the •••• out of their old man and Walsall, and that worries me!!!

By Stu (195.92.67.71) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 11:13 pm: Edit

For once, I just can't be arsed. West Ham is a local match, but I really don't know if I can be bothered spending £22 to get in there to see us try and hold out for a 0-0 draw.

Steve, it could be worse, Luton could yet sneak it in the Play Offs. I sit next to a ST holder at Kenilworth Road, who thinks that is quite possible at this stage. I bloody hope not though as Luton is my nearest match.

By sj (195.93.34.9) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 11:33 pm: Edit

Its depressing to be a Saddler at the moment.I can't see Bonser letting us slip into div Two he will splash out now cuz it will cost him if he dosen't. Simple the "law of economics" will make him act. Mark my words.

By Me2 (195.92.168.174) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 11:41 pm: Edit

Dave Roe, all I can say is sorry if you did park on the retail park

It was fun though!

By Blazin (82.37.179.27) on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 11:44 pm: Edit

Clueless performance. Excuses/injuries aside we just haven't looked dangerous when going forward for ages. The only saving grace was Matty Fryatt, he actually looked as if he could do something... sometime..

By LarryHaggler (81.134.45.205) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 12:38 am: Edit

NO effort, passion, commitment,tactics or motivation. I thought we would have a real go at Sunderland tonight, but NO.
fudge disgraceful we have no movement, we dont close players down, our defence was very poor in the goals we gave away, Zigor & Bazely total crap.
Our squad is just not good enough and I firmly beleive after this evening's game that the club are not bothered about relegation. The level of ambition at this club is nothing short of disgraceful and just look at what we have had to put up with in the last 3 months.
I have totally had enough of WFC, and from the discussions I had tonight, many many others have and will NOT be renewing there season ticket next season. Total Football ? = Complete fudge bollocks.

By Unhappy Saddler (217.43.246.49) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 12:39 am: Edit

Couldn't get there tonight - living 100 miles away and gainfully employed.

I'm usually very nervous when I listen to a game but tonight I couldn't really care.

Sunderland going 1-0 up was as expected - the only surprise was that it took them so long.

The Saddlers equaliser simply set the scene for how long it would then take us to throw the game away again - precisely 60 seconds.

The all-out onslaught for an equaliser never materialised - and the game was killed off by yet another set piece blunder.

How this team has been allowed to slip into a crisis since half-time against Reading on 28th December is an example of ineptitude that even Barnwell would have found difficult to emulate.

We haven't learnt anything from the dreadful performances that precipitated this decline - 2nd half vs Reading and, above all, the last 55 minutes at Millwall.

Lee has, quite frankly, taken this club as far as he can. He would make an excellent general manager but, as a coach/team manager, has little left to offer. His post-match interviews have been an oasis of bewilderment for some time.

The gamble on Merson has, sadly, failed big time - also leaving us with nothing to finance an alternative.
The situation with Samways has deteriorated to an extent where it is patently obvious that the Bescot is one of the last places he would like to be.

I'll be at West Ham on Saturday - purely hoping that we'll keep our dignity and show some fighting spirit.

Desperate times.

By Alan (217.44.52.183) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 01:04 am: Edit

Don't think there's too much to disagree about there. Although I'm sure some of the happy clappers on here will find something...

By popperpancake (81.76.26.186) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 01:15 am: Edit

I can't believe im actually going to West Ham, but i am. Why (Sheff and Stu) is it now Bonser's fault, when under Graydon it was the managers fault? Lee made the decision where to spend the money and it's gone wrong. Graydon also made that decision and that went wrong too. It's either always been Bonser's fault or always the manager's fault. The budget is the budget, it's as simple as that. You want us to stay up by doing a Leicester? So whoever goes down can point the finger at us like everyone does at them? Yeah i know we've received less money than 2 yrs ago but so has everyone else. You can't pick and choose like that. Bonser hasn't got the money. He's a local business man, nothing more. Wright isn't good enough. Osborn (and i don't care if he's injured) is •••••, has anyone ever seen him sprint? He's been playing like Lawrence for about 2 months now. I actually don't think getting rid of Lee will do any good, but i also don't think Bonser should spend money he/we haven't got. Personally i think the pro-Lee people are blaming Bonser because they have defended Lee so much (against the ludicrous Go West fan club onslaught)that they just can't go back on it now. You could have put me in the Sunderland team in the first half and i'd have looked like a decent player (if a little rotund), because Osborn, Samways et al wouldn't have even bothered to close me down. Osborn ••••••• pointing his little fingers everywhere! Put a ••••••• tackle in! Did they have the Liverpool match on underneath the purple stand all the way thru the first half? If they did i wish i'd have known cos i wouldn't have been watching those lazy bastards out on the bescot pitch. And once again the Bovril situation was back. Buy a ••••••• kettle you shower of •••••. Waste of time (and money).

By popperpancake (81.76.26.186) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 01:28 am: Edit

I still think we should play 442 as well. Not that it would make much different, i just prefer it.

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.34.9) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 01:36 am: Edit

The difference between Graydon and Lee is that Lee has kept us in this division for 2 seasons, Graydon could not manage it for one.
The reason we are in this mess is the continual budget cutting by Bonser. One minute we were told the ITV money would not be spent, next minute we are told we made a million loss because of it and therefore Lee will have to cut back on the playing side. Thats a fact.
Lee has had to spend a reduced budget on fewer players, is it Lees fault Merson and Samways went awol?
If you think Osborn is crap then thats your opinion, thing is Osborn will never be a player that will score brilliant goals or make brilliant passes, hes a work horse who gets stuck in to, a player you need if you play Samways in the middle.
I am not saying he has been brilliane over the last few months, but who has?
Dont forget, we were 6 points off the play offs before christmas, Lee suddenly doesnt become a bad manager over night.
The lack of funding to keep us in this division does make him look like one.
I dont want us to go and spend millions, just 100k to 200k to secure a few loan signings to keep us in this division.
You saying Lee doesnt deserve this after all he has done for us?

By popperpancake (81.76.26.186) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 01:52 am: Edit

I agree Lee should stay. I don't think changing the manager every 2/3 years does a club any good in the long run. Altho i believe we only have one loan signing left? Can someone confirm this? If true then Bonser would need to make funds available for permanent players. Much more than 100-200K. It's not a matter of whether Lee deserves it anyway, it's about whether we can afford it. Lots of people don't get what they deserve from their job. The nature of our football club means Lee has always known this. It's not a secret. The difference u make between Graydon and Lee is irrelevent. So what if he's kept us in this division for 2 years? It's about now. Osborn doesn't get stuck in! Did you seem him make a tackle 2nite? Cos i didn't. I've nothing particlarly against him to be honest, he just annoys me more and more. To be fair there have been plenty worse than him this season. The situation with Samways and Merson is Lee's responsibilty. He took the decision (risky, some would say) to sign them and he must be held responsible for it. I, for one, supported (and still do, put in that situation myself i would have signed both of them) that decision. But at the moment it has backfired. For me, Lee should stay. But also Bonser should continue to run the club in the same manner that he always has done. It's not perfect but we are a lot better off than many many clubs of similar stature. That is also a fact, and a very telling one. I'd love nothing more than Bonser to produce some cash and get some players in, but where will it come from?

By wfc_2uk (62.31.216.30) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 01:53 am: Edit

The only thing Lee does deserve from us is the sack.
Ive had enough sheffield, I WENT to the match and have done since Boxing Day and I am so peed off. A new man is needed fast who can regain the confidence of the squad. WHEN we go down (likely under Lee), it might be a good thing. QPR and Bristol C went down quite a few years ago BUT they have now built a team that could probably stay in division 1. Play-off appearances from both teams have got them atleast £30,000 and theyve used that to get a big squad together SO if we have to take one step back to make one giant leap forward ill take it. We might actually win some games and Fryatt might be played more often. Plus Bazeley,Osborn,Merson,Samways,Matias and of course Lee will all leave and it will give us a step for the future.
I think we should sack Lee now, IF we do we might get a Steve Cotterill type in but if we are in division 2 before we appoint someone we might have to put up with a Nicky Law type lesser manager.
Bonser spend some cash or take Lee out of the Bescot entrance with you and dont come back.
Doncaster races here we come.

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.34.9) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 02:07 am: Edit

So you would rather sack a manager that has kept us in this division for 2 years and pay his contract off THEN give him that money anyway to keep us in this division?
Oh, and it might be a good thing to go down? Well that just about sums up the stupidity of some people on here!

By df (193.237.102.207) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 08:35 am: Edit

Sheff, i think we owed Graydon at least as much loyalty than Lee. I understand your statement about Lee deserving backing but surely so did Graydon. It's old ground but you had to get into this division to be relegated from it.
You know my thoughts on Lee and what I have wanted for months. Unfortunatly I fear that relegation may well arrive before his P45.

As for last night well it's kind of undefendable. Bleak, drab, mediocre they had all the hallmarks of a team 10 games without a win. I also note the Merson bashing appears to have eased. Still we've coped really well without him. (cue the idiots)

On a lighter note is it true that in order to mirror the Bescot entertainment level were going to be wearing light grey shirts at home and dark grey for away games?

By df (193.237.102.207) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 08:36 am: Edit

Sheff, i think we owed Graydon at least as much loyalty than Lee. I understand your statement about Lee deserving backing but surely so did Graydon. It's old ground but you had to get into this division to be relegated from it.
You know my thoughts on Lee and what I have wanted for months. Unfortunatly I fear that relegation may well arrive before his P45.

As for last night well it's kind of undefendable. Bleak, drab, mediocre they had all the hallmarks of a team 10 games without a win. I also note the Merson bashing appears to have eased. Still we've coped really well without him. (cue the idiots)

On a lighter note is it true that in order to mirror the Bescot entertainment level were going to be wearing light grey shirts at home and dark grey for away games next season?

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.34.9) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 08:50 am: Edit

df - Why do you think we owed Graydon backing? He had already had his chance in the first division and got us relegated. Added to that, if he had stayed that season Lee took over we would have been relegated as well.
The bloke was not up to first division standard, whereas Lee as proved that given the funding he can keep this team in this division.
Now, I hope that has explained the difference between Graydon and Lee.

By Stu (13.16.137.11) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 09:25 am: Edit

I've said it elsewhere, but sacking Lee won't make any difference when the squad is as depleted as ours currently is.

Look at our subs bench last night, only Matty Fryatt is really able to make an impact and thats a lot of pressure on a 17yr old kid. One of those subs was playing on loan at Stafford Rangers not so long ago, with all respect to him, Stafford Rangers to Division 1 is a step up that doesn't bear thinking about.

Maybe it is time to consider Lee's position, but I refuse to accept that it is all his fault for us being where we are. Everyone, from the top down, needs to take responsibility.

By Will (212.125.68.234) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 10:13 am: Edit

I'll get slaughtered for this no doubt, but I didn't actually think we were too bad last night. Granted Sunderland are pretty average but we were on top for the first 20 mins until they scored, pretty much against the run of play. They had about four chances all game and scored three, mostly down to defensive errors - we have two of our best defenders injured (Carbon & Roper). We hit the bar had loads of chances that were wasted (Wales - what a waste of money - runs around a lot, less chance of scoring than a monk). Essentially we looked like a team that were very low in confidence, but it was a lot better than some of our recent displays and I think Bracewell's bringing the players around. A draw against West Ham and a win against Wimbledon, coupled with Wrack, Corica & Merson returning, plus Farelly & life will be rosy again. We've been in worse scrapes before, it aint over yet, get behind the team & keep the faith.

By Markw (81.136.4.6) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 11:11 am: Edit

I think the crunch should be the Wimbledon game.If we fail to win this then Lee should depart.Defeat at West Ham is certain but Wimbledon is a different story.
If we lose to the Dons then who will we beat.
We should not play any of our half fit players at West Ham (Corica/Wrack/Samways/Osborn)And just field kids.We will lose anyway so it will be good experience for them.
Oh and drop Wales.I'D rather have Birch and that says something.He's bloody useless.
Team for West Ham
Walker
Bazeley Ritchie Emblen Zigor
Wright Taylor ? Pedro
Jorge Fryatt

Ok i'm struggling to put out a team but you get the picture.

By SheffieldSaddler (82.38.185.114) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 11:29 am: Edit

I wont bother to comment on the above as I think its too ridiclous to.

By Will (212.125.68.234) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 11:49 am: Edit

'We should not field any of our half fit players at West Ham (Corica/Wrack/Samways/Osborn) And just field kids. We will lose anyway so it will be good experience for them'

Priceless MarkW - Good experience for our youth team players to get tanked at West Ham. Wright already looks low on confidence and scared stiff - a drubbing at West Ham will do wonders.
You are right about youth in some respect though, Fryatt looked good but you can't pin your hopes on a 17 year old. I'd play him for 45 mins at a time to bring him on as a player. Kris Taylor is 'Tailor-made' to slot into the midfield and fill the gap while our half fit players recover their fitness. I'd give him 45 mins to bring him on as a player (why does he keep on getting dropped after playing so well).
Gareth Farelly should be with us then if the reports are true, so he'd play with Pedro, Taylor and Wright(?) Corica, Samways or Wrack in midfield. Jorge and Wales up front and Bazeley, Richie, Emblen and Zigor at the back.

Team sheet kind of writes itself at the moment, based on who's fit, and people have a go at Colin Lee / Bracewell for poor management, whoever we had as manager would struggle to put a team out.

By Matt (193.237.56.21) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 11:56 am: Edit

SheffieldSaddler - I haven't been on this message board for a while and I've just had a quick scan of some of the posts, I've got to say that you are the most annoying arse on the site - either respond to the comments or don't bother at all.

Anyway, on to football matters - markw's suggestion would make sense and I will be surprised if this isn't the approach adopted - playing the unfit players last night didn't get us anywhere. It would be better to regroup after the inevitable defeat on Saturday with as many players fit as possible.

Will - I admire your optimism but I thought last night was a stroll for Sunderland.

By steve swift (213.122.43.206) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 12:30 pm: Edit

I agree with Will to some extent, the first 20 minutes of last night was the best I have seen us play for a while...that says a lot in itself! I don't think anyone expected us to win last night but it was imperitive that the team started to look more like a D1 side. You looked at the Sunderland team and saw them communicating constantly, moving around the pitch as a unit. Walsall on the whole were like children relentlessly following 11 pied pipers, barely keeping up with them. For a variety of reasons, to be fair, some of them out of our control, we are slipping into the black hole...and I wish I could see something postive coming out of then next couple of weeks.........

By SheffieldSaddler (82.38.185.114) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 12:50 pm: Edit

Matt, I could not care less what you think of me to be honest and I dont care one bit.
I say it as it is, not p*ss about mixing words.
Playing markws' team would be stupid and will not happen anyway.

By Stuart lockley (194.36.56.254) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 01:37 pm: Edit

I know people say its not the formations that win you games its the players but it seems so obvious to me that we cannot play 3-5-2 with these players.

The team we started with last night would have easily played 4-4-2. 5-3-2 gave sunderland too much space out wide for Oster/Acra et al to create havoc. Acra scored as a result of wrack having to mark 2 players and the other two goals came from crosses.

Walker
Bazeley Emblem Ritchie Aranalde
Wrack Samways Corica Osbourne
Wales Jorge

Instead we play Bazeley at centre back, ask an unfit Wrack to play wing back (how much running is involved?) and I cant even begin to explain where Osbourne and Corica were supposed to be playing.

Its all well and good blaming our midfield and defence (i'am sure someone even tried blaming Birch last night!!!) but the forwards offered nothing either. No movement, runnning, nothing. Fair enough the rest of the lads behind them gave them little support but even still.

We don't seem to be playing as a team. We are not supporting the players. Aranadle took up some excellent positions when he decided to venture forward. As soon as the ball went out to him he was closed down and there wasn't a Walsall shirt within 20 yards of him to pass to. This resulted in him lumping the ball long (and we all know he cannot clear the first man on his crossing). We have to act like a team and help each other out by making ourselves available.

If players aren't fit, Lee should not be picking them. I would have thought that this would be fairly simple logic.

The players seemed to have no organisation, understanding or leadership. I don't feel they knew where they were supposed to play and what there role was. This is down to the management team and our Captain to sort out and organise. Lets get the basics right!!!

On a more positive note, last night wasn't as bad as some are saying on other boards. We did play well (albeit in small patches) but are showing a lack of confidence.

When the Merse comes back (hopefully charged up and ready to go) I expect the confidence to come back. The continued development of players like Taylor, Wright (jury still out), Fryatt etc will see us improve.

Keep the faith...whats the betting we beat West Ham on Saturday? You heard it here first.

By Jman Bookie Service (194.81.215.15) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 01:52 pm: Edit

Will give you odd's of 5000/1

By Dave Gittins (212.137.34.25) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 02:07 pm: Edit

Taking a step back for a moment and looking at the overall picture. Just before Xmas with Baird and O'Neill on loan we were a decent mid-table team, probably a player or two short of being a good top half team. Since then, for various reasons, we lost both Baird and O'Neill. Add to that the loss (temporary we hope) of Merson along with Hay, Roper being injured, the Samways fiasco etc etc and we are now probably 5 or 6 players short of being a mediocre 1st division side.

Look back at the start of the season - Lee was classed as a hero for signing Merson and persuading Samways to come back. Now things have gone pear shaped he is the biggest villain since Barnwell.

By SheffieldSaddler (82.38.185.114) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 02:12 pm: Edit

Well said Dave. From a hero to a villian in 6 months. How some people forget.
Thing what I dont understand is, before RG went he had none of this vile attitude, true some people wanted him to go, but this get Lee out campaign is way over the top.
Yet he has kept us in this divsion which RG never did. Totally strange.

By Neil Ravenscroft (62.172.127.2) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 02:18 pm: Edit

Actually, I agree with Stuart Lockley about last night's game, as I thought the first and last twenty minutes we played some decent stuff and were the better of the two sides. Sunderland had four shots on target last night and scored three. We had 6 at least and scored one. What i will disagree with him about (and always will) is the formation. 3 5 2 is the only sensible way to accommodate Corica or Merson (unless you have very, very mobile players in midfield who can play 4 3 1 2). Neither can play in central midfield in a flat 4.

The comments about "fight" and "scrapping" just make me laugh, as anytime anyone got remotely physical last night, the ref's whistle went.

By ken (194.6.9.129) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 02:22 pm: Edit

Stuart , I'll be there at West Ham but will give you odds of 50,000 - 1 on us winning.

I dont think Mark W's suggestion is stupid at all. Its blatantly obvious that our squad is fully stretched, we are playing with players who arent fit . We have a crucial couple of months coming up , with matches that on paper with a full team we could win ( Wimbledon , Burnley H) Its vital that we have as many players 100% fit for these games, not 75% . We wouldnt beat West Ham away with a full strength team in a million years , whats the point of playing Wrack , Samways , Osborn half/ 3/4 fit and possibly aggravating their injuries?

Its a matter of sense and need for the rest of the season rather than a game plan against West Ham.

Finally , all season ticket holders who say they are not getting another one season , stop crying . Following a football team , especially Walsall, means through thick and thin. Easy to say, nows the time to do it. If you cant , dont jump back on the bandwagon when we start winning again next season, those sort of fans are not what Walsall is all about, go and support Villa .

Sign Don Penn and Ron Green for the last game of the season!

Ps Sheffield , dont fight it , you are the most annoying person on here by far.

Up the Saddlers

By wfc_2uk (62.31.216.184) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 02:27 pm: Edit

Sheffield, Managers are given the hardest job in football. Houllier won liverpool the FA Cup and UEFA Cup but fans NOW want him out. Paul Hart got Forest to the play-offs last season BUT the fans got him out. ITS NOW that matters sheffield, it doesnt matter now if Lee signed merson and samways, that Lee DID get us to our highest position, that Lee has kept us in this division, that Lee got us within 4 points of the play-offs. Lee's got to take more blame for where we are than JB and the players. Plus sheffield we dont give a damn about Ray anymore. Lee is here and after no win in 15 hours of football and 2 points clear of the drop, i think its time for the bloke that gets his ar$ed licked by many of walsall fans and Bonser, to go!

By Cockerney Saddler (212.162.206.130) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 02:28 pm: Edit

Biggest villain since Barnwell? Absolute cod Dave, IMO.
Agreed, times are very desperate indeed – no form, no confidence (from the team and, apparently, the fans), no money. Without doubt, things are not looking too good.
But isn't it now time to really get behind the team? To create an atmosphere on the pitch where the players can build up confidence?
We've been in this position before and escaped – now we've got to do it again. And we CAN do it.
Bring it on.

By Dave Roe (217.37.14.235) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 02:52 pm: Edit

Yeah Sheff, some people did want Graydon to go. I remember you saying such a thing only a few weeks before the play-off final. Why Colin Lee is being given so much rope I'll never know.

By Dave Roe (217.37.14.235) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 02:54 pm: Edit

Me2, I did park on the retail park, thanks for your advice

I wonder how the plants are this morning ? Fairly flat I would have thought !

By Me2 (195.92.168.179) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 03:03 pm: Edit

Sorry Dave. I told you that you wouldnt get a ticket

I cant believe they did that, it even says on the signs that the car park opens until 10pm! I am guessing they wont do it again, I saw one car ramming the barriers! Nuts. At least is put a smile back on my face after the match.

By SheffieldSaddler (82.38.185.114) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 03:47 pm: Edit

Dave - Dont state things that are not true, I DID NOT state that a few weeks before the pay offs. If I remember it was about January time. 4 months is a lot different to a few weeks!
I have already explained why CL is given more rope. Basically because he has kept us up in this division for 2 seasons. Something RG would never have done.

By kirsty the macum (194.159.181.243) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 04:21 pm: Edit

hard luck guys it was a gud game. we sore u sneeking out when we were winning ur stadium is tiny like a shoe box. u hav a gud player the one with the lomg hair.can we play u every week. by kirsty nd rippy the sunderland fans.

By Neil Ravenscroft (62.172.127.2) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 04:42 pm: Edit

Does she mean Zigor?????!!!!!????

By popperpancake (81.134.180.25) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 05:43 pm: Edit

Give someone enough rope and they will hang themselves Sheff.

By coxanddrummie (195.93.34.9) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 06:08 pm: Edit

I don't even want to comment on last nights performance because it isn't worthy. It was spineless, gutless and was a clear indication of a beaten team. We are going down. I predicted it months ago and sadly it will happen.

Im hearing a lot of people say that Bonser should back the manager, provide funds yet the very same people are also telling us we have no money. It's a total gross contradiction.

The fact is that Colin Lee has been provided with funds that far outweigh any other Walsall manager in history and has failed totally. Lets get real. Colin Lee has been backed as much as is financially possible in a football climate where money is to tight to mention. Not to mention the fact that we are logistically a small club with low attendances.

Colin Lee's team were playing yesterday give or take one or two players and to me they seem to have a complete disregard not only for the manager but the club itself. So what can be done?

Based on the fact that the club has no money to purchase players that can galvanise our team you simply have to look at changing the manager but it must happen NOW. We have seen throughout the years what a new man who can give a fresh impetus can do. Forest been the latest example.

I don't want to see this club relegated. I believe that it can hold it's own in this division providing a new man is sought to engage players and motivate them. Lee simply can't do it. He is a total faliure in every way.

Ask yourselves this people, do you think that performance last night and other putrid shows would have happened if say the likes of Dave Merrington was there. I hope for Walsall footballs sake that Bonser has someone of that ilk lined up NOW because if he hasn't WE ARE DOWN.

I was right about Lee and im right about that. If the club would have took my advice on removing Lee at xmas then im 100% sure we wouldn't be in this position. NOW is the time, don't make the same mistake twice.

By Neil Ravenscroft (62.172.127.2) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 06:28 pm: Edit

That was an awfully big comment from someone who didn't want to make one.

By coxanddrummie (195.93.34.9) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 06:45 pm: Edit

Sorry Neil but i have just rechecked my post and there isn't any reference to the ins and out's and faliures of last night's performance.

I can comprise that if you want but it won't be ready untill some time next week, that of course if i start it now.

By Stuart lockley (81.103.216.30) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 07:18 pm: Edit

Neil.

You are probably right about a 4-4-2 not accomodating Merson or Corica but Corica should not have been playing last night and Merson isn't even in the country.

What I said was we should have played a 4-4-2 with the fit players that we had available. If you look at our starting eleven it would have been more suitable to play 4-4-2 (even if that meant having Corica on the right and Wracky on the left).

10,000/1...are you sure?

Stu

By near post header (192.146.136.129) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 07:43 pm: Edit

C and D, a new managers "honeymoon" period may save us this season but what about next? Colin Lee can get results, he's proven it, thats a fact! a Dave Merrington figure, by that do you mean a bawler? DM worked because he was with Colin Lee, the ying to his yang.

By coxanddrummie (195.93.34.9) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 08:15 pm: Edit

Oi you near post header, you just missed you plonker.

By near post header (192.146.136.129) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 08:37 pm: Edit

What??????

By cat3 (218.102.110.69) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 09:04 pm: Edit

We gotta stabilize the team, play 5=4=1 and get a tie game and then start winning with a long ball. That's the only solution to get us back on track. We need to defend our turf and get back up theirs with some inspiration. The drought is gotta stop... This is really pathetic, never seen anything like this... The tactic is all wrong.. If we are to not win a game, we might as well tighten our defense and work out a win against a worser team. Samway is gotta contribute 110%. He's the key to our team. We need to beef up our defense... No defense, there's no game! We gotta stop the leak right now... We gotta make a stone wall and not let anything past into the box. If it's a high ball, we gotta hit it out and not let it squander pass our keeper... We will get pass this misery and move on for another relentless battle of first division next year... Never give up, stand high, cause we are Walsall fans! We got here will a Miraclous goal from Goodman, let's not waste his hard work and fail our dream to play Premiership! Man United and Arsenals are waiting for us, not to mention Chelsea! It's a minestone but it's what we gotta aim for.... Go go saddlers!!!

By Fish (81.133.100.98) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 09:05 pm: Edit

Enough of this depression. OK, last night's failure mirrored so much of what went wrong at Wigan against what I thought was a poor team with midfield failing yet again to perform.

But there were some things to hang on to. 3-1 down and we continued to make chances - Emblen agonisingly wide with a header, Mark Wright (who's sureley had his chance now) failed to pull back across goal for a waiting Matt Fryatt and a header (from Wales?) against the bar.

And what about Fryatt? Didn't he set an example to all the others ? - determination, vision, energy -he reminded me of a young Miichael Owen. Interestingly his movement created more space up front for others - Gary Wales particularly benefitted from this. I don't care if he is only 17 - Fryatt's good enough.

And what's more (all the Pedro haters won't like this), I say, and last night showed it, the team is better with Pedro in the side than without him. The quality of our attacking football improved considerably once he came on (OK, it couldn't have got much worse) but he did start to hold the ball, beat defenders and find Walsall players.

Admittedly I have been worried for months about our style of play and I have criticised it, even when we were six points from the play-offs - but I just have the feeling that we can scrape a win soon and get back on track and survive. And somehow I think that Bracewell's contribution will prove to be a significant factor for us in our survival. I think that he seems to be bringing a more positive influence to the club.

I reckon if we were to have a bad patch, it's better for it to be now whist there are still games left than later in the season with no time to recover.

Remember folks - the darkest hour is before the dawn.

By Neil Ravenscroft (82.37.184.186) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 09:10 pm: Edit

Agree about Wright. It was Ritchie hit the bar (he's fated never to score for us, I'm sure). I still think 3 5 2 is the only way to accommodate Merson or Corica, but one ain't here and the other isn't fit.

By Tiimmy (81.152.7.74) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 10:24 pm: Edit

Forget Merson. When Lee chose to lump our resources on this waster instead of keeping Junior our season was doomed. Has any manger ever had a worse close season?

By Dave Gittins (195.92.168.177) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 11:16 pm: Edit

Timmy

I suggest you get your facts straight. Look back at the pre-season posts. Virtually everyone was delighted to have Merson on board and as far as Junior was concerned Colin did everything he could to keep him at the club. Was it CL's fault that Junior and his agent refused to return any calls and talk to the club?

By Fish (81.132.233.171) on Thursday, March 04, 2004 - 11:58 pm: Edit

Still positive...Merson will be back shortly, and will make up for lost time.

By coxanddrummie (195.93.34.9) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 01:24 am: Edit

I don't doubt that Fish. Im sure he's chomping at the bit to get back to what he does best.

William Hill have a keen interest on his return, shares are down. The local boozer is in the red and the village dealer has suffered so much he's traded his top of the range BMW for an Austin Allegro. Mind you his missus looks well.

By JPD (203.18.34.5) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 04:08 am: Edit

Just in case Lee does get the axe, can C&D please list other managers he has an irrational and pathological hatred of so we know what to expect if one of them gets the job?
Ex-Wolves blokes presumably.
Also a list of those that you approve of would be beneficial.
Don't bother reminding us about Dowie.
And Sheff, you don't come anywhere near C@D in terms of annoyment, although a certain Mr Lawrence may disagree.

By SheffieldSaddler (82.38.185.114) on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 10:09 am: Edit

JPD - To be honest mate, I dont bother reading Dummies posts now.
I cant see the point in wasting time on vile, pathetic, stupid and clueless accusations.
Its a bit like reading The Sun or The Mirror.
Full of sh*t.

By df (193.237.102.207) on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 08:03 am: Edit

Sheff, I've come round to your way of thinking about Colin. He is the man for us. The discipline, entertainment level and progression of youth more than make up for the lack of recent results.
The more critical would suggest that we're only using our young players because of an injury crisis but we know better. The injury crisis is all part of Colin's master plan to blood Fryatt and chums. The same people would accuse Lee of wasting his loan options on all but GON & CB but again Colin needed to get these out of the way in order that the youngsters could be given a chance.

In addition I've also decided that Graydon was rubbish, as was Chris Nichol and the Buck. Bar***ll was unlucky (it was the ex Wolves thing that blurred everything) and had it not been for a 13 game losing streak Coakley would have taken us all the way. Dave Mackay was forced out and Frank Sibley's pathetic effort was simply down to poor referees.

Colin is the man.

By Cannock (62.31.217.73) on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 11:40 am: Edit

Excellent df.

By Fish (81.132.103.84) on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 10:16 am: Edit

Ah, Frank Sibley...a name that had been put to the distant recesses of my mind.

By SheffieldSaddler (82.38.185.114) on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 02:19 pm: Edit

Ken - Bet you was a bit worried on Saturday wasnt you? 50000-1 us winning and Taylor hit a post.
Good job we also played Osborn and Samways, unlike your post
"Its a matter of sense and need for the rest of the season rather than a game plan against West Ham." Seemed our game plan worked mate!

By kenneth (194.6.9.129) on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 04:39 pm: Edit

sheffield, would have loved it obviously if Taylors header had gone in but on balance we were always happy with a draw , and a great draw it was too, in Lee's own words , "unexpected".

Totally stand by what I and others said though , as the point was that we need to have 11 fully fit players on the pitch , not 3 going off early, as against Sunderland , as we have to cash in on the winnable games at home. Presumably this is why Ritchie, Carbon, Wrack , Corica and Lawrence werent even in the 16 as they werent fully fit, despite press reports before the game saying that at least 3 of them were touch and go, and why we had Taylor , Fryatt , Bennet and Caines in the 16, plus Pedro and Birch starting ( both not 1st team standard in my opinion , but both battled well on sat)

Samways did look fit to me, hence him playing 80 mins , while Osborn played all 90 , but obviously he is the one that has decided to play through his injury , and for me although he did ok was the slight weak link in midfield on sat ..but good on him for his determination to play, as long as he's not forking himself for the rest of the season in the process .

So , fighting perforamnce from a much weakened 11 against the odds and the injury table clearing up hopefully, much the point that was being made...?

Return to 2003-04 Season

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests