Watford (h) - League - 21st February 2004

[Andy]

By reading saddler (81.6.243.207) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 05:45 pm: Edit

oh dear not long left now hangs head in shame

By reading saddler (81.6.243.207) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 05:59 pm: Edit

right that is it i've had enough i need some answers ........... what is going on at walsall... wheres the results thats what i need get it sorted out team.

By howmuchlonger? (218.102.23.28) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 06:02 pm: Edit

2 points in 2 months says it all. Going down. Get rid.

By Chris Owen (62.31.217.89) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 06:47 pm: Edit

It was plain within five minutes that we had no width and no pace in midfield - the same problem that afflicted us at Forest, as I noted after that match on this board. Tactically, that was (eventually) corrected, bringing on Taylor, who had a good game, and Matias, who was OK. But what was far more worrying, given the official line from the club and the manager that this was one of the most critical games of the season, was the absolute lack of fight or determination from far too many of the players until the second half. Taylor deserves to start after that, and 4-3-3 is an utter disaster. We got little from the referee, and we maybe, maybe, deserved something from a much improved second half. But lets face it, Watford were far poorer than Forest, and we were at home, with a lot to play for. After that, it does not take any great wisdom to realise we're in very deep trouble, and second division football next season is a real risk. Big changes are needed, both in faces and in attitude, because to turn in a performance like that in a game like this suggests real strife behind the scenes.

But if the team were awful, so, frankly were the crowd. The only noise I heard from most of the Purple Middle in the first half was boos and catcalls, and my shouts of encouragement were greeted by stares of bemusement. Too many of the 'supporters' at Walsall seem to think they're on their sofas at home. Pull together, or fall apart.

Fensaddler

By JMan (82.37.172.170) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 06:48 pm: Edit

Shocking

Any one know what formation we played first half?

Why did Emblen Start, why did Birch play ont he wing?

Why is Colin Lee managing this football club?

By cat3 (203.218.194.199) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 07:18 pm: Edit

I suppose we can always go back to 4-5-1 and defend 90 minutes of the game for the next 14 games left and end up tie and still survive for the season. We got beaten by poor morale in our squad. Too many bad things happened when Samway tried to depart last month from us. That sort of wipe everything apart. One thing after another, our players are not playing the emotions like they were before. What can we do? At the least, we got a first team coach, Paul Brucewell who can bring some solidarity to the squad. We won't be in trouble yet, but certainly, we are not going anywhere today against Watford with a 1-0 lost at home. What a lost! I guess Colin Lee better think fast along side with Walley and J.Bonser. The bus is getting bumpy, and our players are fastening their seat belts and not showing the confidence they have for the manager. It's time CL comes out of his hat and be a leader! The bloodshed is got to stop once and for all... Go Go Sads!!!

By Dave, burntwood (62.255.32.8) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 07:19 pm: Edit

I expected to see at least one new player in the team today.
Why did Lee let so many players leave in the last 2 wks? Today he said Samways was unfit from the start, Corica on the bench but all reports this wk were that he had no chance of playing.
Played most of 2nd half with Wright & Taylor in mid-field who have started only 5 times for Walsall.
I said before kick-off, that to lose this game would see us relegated.
Thoughly depressed.

By ANoS (81.135.0.96) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 07:20 pm: Edit

Colin Lee is managing this football club because he is the best man for the job. If you want rid, who do you want to replace him them? It's that same old question everytime.

Fensaddler makes some good points, though no changes in faces are going to take place unless the board give CL some money. With the resources available, we are doing as well as we can expect.

We should just survive, we only need 4 wins, and I think we'll get them, but unless we get an injection of money into the squad, to add some pace and variation to the midfield, we are going to really struggle next season.

By rolo (195.93.34.9) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 07:32 pm: Edit

where was the second half fight back?crewe last home game were dire first half and dominated the second.same as forest last week.are we the only team that can't get motivated when we're behind?the last 5 games have all been winable.i fear our chances of staying up are looking bleak with the run in we have.

By Jman (82.37.172.170) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 07:35 pm: Edit

Hmmm, anyone who has an once of passion, doesn't play stupid formations and doesn't play players out of position is better for the job then Colin Leee

By Mark Ferguson (62.252.64.11) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 08:06 pm: Edit

A Watford fan here:

From what I heard on our local radio station we had the majority of the 1st halg but then our goalie was excellent to keep you out and there was a shout for a spot kick towards the end.

Who played well/poorly for us?

Keep the faith - We lost 5-1 at home to Palace a month ago - since we've got 7 points out of 9.

By Esso (213.48.83.179) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 08:50 pm: Edit

Mark,
Lennie Pidgley was excellent, Lee Cook and Paul Devlin worked hard but for me the main man was Mahon. Into everything.

By popperpancake (81.79.190.79) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 08:56 pm: Edit

Absolute garbage today. Samways was very poor, but to be fair he's been our best player along with Ritchie this year so all this •••• about he should •••• off to Spain is just that... ••••. I've had enough of Osborn tho, waddling about the pitch at 1 mile an hour, i've been kidding myself that he contributes something. Why was Jorge playing where he did in the first half? Makes no sense. Why do i bother going to watch.? No idea. Am i the most pissed off i've been in a while? Yes. We'll probably win at Wigan next week. With a vibrant dynamic Osborn running the midfield. I ••••••• hope so.

By Walsall Supporter (82.37.192.189) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 08:58 pm: Edit

Mark,

Watford were certainly the stronger team first half, and the passing and defending by your team were second to none.
Lee Cook was a strong player getting down the wing and middle most times. Can't say you had any really poor players, all gave a gutsy performance, I said I would of been well chuffed half time to be a Watford fan.

Second half, personally, I think we played better and were attacking for once, Watford second half hardly had any shots on goal, and as you said, your Goalie was your Man of the Match.
We had plently of chances 2nd half, but just didn't have the luck today for them to go in the back on the net.

I certainly think Leitao was a spot kick, but as in past games we have a lot of decisions go against us.

We always seem to give the teams below us the will to win.....
Then they aren't below us very long

By Jorge14 (195.93.34.9) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 09:06 pm: Edit

I had to laugh at the twerp who texted WM saying "Bring back Ray Graydon"... What a complete and utter muppet.
The funniest thing was that earlier in the same message he had said we were "going backwards as a club"...
There is no room at the Bescot for braindeads like that...

I've said in another topic, how can a team with 3 strikers not have a shot in the first half?
How can a team in trouble (and we are in the mire) justify carrying dead-weights like Birch, and players who don't want to play for the club, and shurg their shoulders, like Samways...and maybe even Ritchie.

Vinny Samway's will be booed out of Bescot, and I for one will never applaud that man again so long as he remains in a Walsall jersey.

Interestingly, Walker didn't really had anything to do apart from pick the ball out of his net, which points to a strong performance infront of him.

Unfortunately, that wasn't the case.

In defence, Bazeley started off brightly, and was at least looking to go forward most of the time. However, later on he became anonymous. We really need him to get his form back from last season when he was bombing forward.
Aranalde had a surprsingly good game. His passing was, at times, accurate, but too often he lets us down with silly decisions. He always looks so much better in combination with Pedro, and vice-versa.
In the centre, Matt Carbon had an outstanding game, and was my man of the match. Ritchie didn't have that much to do, but looked hesitant. Surely a sign of his performance mid-week affecting him mentally?

As i've said, Vinny Samways was an embarrasment. Osborn had an average game, but lost his legs in the second half. His corners were abysmal.
Kris Taylor did well when he came on. Sprayed some good balls about and covered alot of ground. Give him a run now. The fans like him because he gives his all...we need someone in the Keates mould at this point in time.

Birch was typically crap. I've never heard such a cheer for a player getting subsistuted in a long time.

Leitao and Wales battled well, but maybe Jorge could have notched a couple today, which on another day he would have swallowed up.

We lacked width AGAIN. Hopefully, this will be rectified for next week. Well, i guess we can but hope.

So, where now?

Bear in mind that Bonsor is unlikely to sack Lee, we have to look at how Colin Lee can turn around this dismal run.

Next week we've got Wigan on a shocking pitch. No room for skill, so let's go back to old 4-4-2, and go to a more direct formation.

Drop Vinny, give him a week in Spain to get his thoughts together, bring in Wright and Matias on the wing, it's about time we tried something else.
Start with Osborn and Taylor in the middle. We need a bit of grit, but as we haven't got any in the middle of the park, we've got to go for the niggle factor.

Wales and Jorge upfront, send Birch to the glue factory.

Colin Lee won't get sacked, we have to accept that. It's time to put aside the crapness, and make sure that the players no they have out support.

Fair enough, we might not like the manager, but when Lee is long gone, we're still gonna be Walsall fans. It's the present that counts, because without the present, there is no future. And Division Two spells a return to the dark days of the early 90's.

By Jorge14 (195.93.34.9) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 09:08 pm: Edit

And i haven't even mentioned the officials yet...the lino in the second half was particulalry poor...

By Zorg the Leveller (213.122.19.239) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 09:12 pm: Edit

Wotcha

Watford again...

I couldn't see the Leitao spot kick appeal very well, but that's the sort of thing that goes for you when you're on a decent run. We've had plenty of bad luck ourselves this season, so I'm not going to knock back any good luck that's going. Jerel Ifil, who committed the challenge, was superb for us today along with Dyche... they were our strongest players for me.

For you guys... Wales had our left back in trouble, I thought that's where the breakthrough would come for you if it came. Taylor looked excellent second half... he definitely gave your whole side more zip.

For the rest of the season... well our next two games are Wimbledon (H) and Bradford (A) which gives us a chance of going on a bit of a run. You need to win a game and then things won't look half as bad, but with Derby and Forest picking up points this needs to happen quickly. You're no worse than half-a-dozen other contenders for that relegation place but your heads are down and there aren't a lot of goals in your team. I'd be a little concerned... all the best though.

Zorg

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.34.9) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 09:13 pm: Edit

Players earn support. So what is the use of saying "and make sure that the players no they have out support.".
How about the players letting US KNOW we have their support for a f*cking change.
Want a good atmosphere? Then let the players f*cking give us something.

By popperpancake (81.79.190.79) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 09:27 pm: Edit

At least they've managed got some kind of hot water producing contraption so i can get bovril at half time. I don't have to put up with the fat ••••••• who serves it laughing when he tells me the hot water has ran out. Taylor did well again i thought. And Wales. Birch is a fantastic talent, strong, mobile, quick feet. Bastards. I'm off to get pissed anyway. I disliked the game today as much as Neil disliked Carl Finlow.

By Chris Owen (213.48.83.125) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 10:06 pm: Edit

Sorry Sheff, I know you're hacked off, but its a case of united we stand, divided we fall. Whilst they're on the pitch, however bad it is, they need us behind them. Anything else isn't going to help the situation - and right now we all - fans, players, club, manager - have our backs to the wall. As we saw in the second half, some support from the fans can combine with some good play on the field to get things going, and as in the first, pressure from the crowd did nothing to help the team. Positives from today - and hell do we need some - Aranalde played soundly in defence and attack, Wales looks useful, as he did last week, and Kris Taylor (the first time I've seen him play) looks to be made of the right stuff - gets stuck in, and at least one superb pass that all but led to a goal.

A word of appreciation for the Watford fans who've posted here - they of all people know how we're feeling.

Lets hope we can get some new blood in during the week, and that Lee's selection next week learns three things - pick the players who give us, pace, width and spirit, and we may have a chance. That for me, means we have to give Taylor a start, and ring one or two changes elsewhere. If we can we need a pacy, creative wide midfielder on loan. I've not called for Lee to go before, and I'm not doing so now.

And as for the lino, I thought he was just as bad in the first half as the second. And the ref must have come with his guide dog.

Fensaddler

By Stu (195.92.67.78) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 10:22 pm: Edit

I've just been told that we don't deserve 1st Division football by a Watford fan. We've 2/3 of them in my Sunday morning team, just spoke to one of them who said our fans don't deserve first division football.

Why? Because we were booing our own players and getting on their backs within 15 minutes, he said we got even worse as the game went on and thought it was disgusting and pathetic that the fans couldn't even support the team during the match.

Must admit, I have to agree with him. We were abysmal in the first half and I'll talk about my criticisms of Lee below. But when the goal went in, 3 blokes all stood up and started yelling abuse at Lee. That, I could not accept, was it Lee's fault that Vinny Samways tried to spin on the ball outside his own 6 yard box.

If one of my lot does that tomorrow morning, I'll roast the moron alive.

Lee cannot prevent Samways doing that, or the mis-placed passes or Jorge missing that sitter in the first half.

What Lee can do is pick one formation and stick with it. After all, this is the same bunch of players that pushed us to within 5 pts of the Play Offs on Boxing Day.

He can make sure we don't play a 4-3-3 with a 35, 33 and 32 yr old as our midfield trio. Where the fricking hell is the energy and tempo going to come from there?

If he wants to use Samways being injured as an excuse, then don't fudge play him.

No energy, no width, no creativity. Getting very worried and I think we've one of two options.

1) Either Bonser puts his hand in his pocket for 2/3 players like he should have done on Boxing Day to allow us to push for the Top 10.

2) I hate to say this, because I think he has been a superb manager and has given us a 1st Division infrastructure, but if we have no cash available then we need a new outlook and some fresh impetus and I think the only way that'll happen is with a new manager. But I'd like to keep Lee at the club in some capacity as general manager.

And 1 last point, was that idiot on Radio WM really serious when he said bring Ray Graydon back? Bring back a manager whose previous club's players organised their own training session because they were fed up with him....

By Mark Ferguson (62.252.64.11) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 10:41 pm: Edit

I must admit we've had a bit of luck this season with that 'goal' against Chelsea and the non-foul outside the area pen against Sunderland plus the OG you managed to score against us but also we've had 7/8 players sent off - 6 quite harshley.

Best of luck though and as ZOL said there are many sides who could go down.

It only needs 1 win to change things.

By southern saddler (194.6.9.129) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 10:46 pm: Edit

Theres no denying that our support at home in particular is not what it was, nowhere near.

It was always one of the reasons I was proud to be a Saddler - I remember better atmospheres at home many times even in the Hibbit era in Div 4 when the crowd were always behind the team and we created a right racket.

Its a combination of : an all - seater ground ( biggest cause ) ; expectations being too high , leading to greater disappointment; a bit of complacency that we are a mid- div 1 team now and theres no danger.. ; the manager not having much of the crowds support ; a slow and often defensive style of play ; no Keates/O'Connor style player who crunches a tackle and stirs the blood playing for the badge..

Someone said on a previous post that our fans seem to be on their sofas at home they are so quiet; its true and its pathetic.

For a club that has got such a passionate core , there are also quite a few fans who have never heard of the word "atmosphere"

We battled for years to get where we are , I've stood at crappy grounds in Div 2/3/4 all over the country and shouted myself hoarse for the cause, does anyone else find the apathy drives you MAD?

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.34.9) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 11:10 pm: Edit

Theres a big difference to this season than other seasons. What?
The other seasons we have been in a relegation fight most of the season. This season its only just happening.
That in my opinion is the most owrrying part. The whole club from board to the fans suddenly realise we are going to have to fight against relegation again!
On the 26th December, we were fighting to get in top 10.
NOW, thats a big difference in mind set to what everyone is thinking now.
And to be honest, I am more worried now than any of the previous seasons in division one.

By Exile (210.54.109.93) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 11:37 pm: Edit

I am less worried about relegation now than at any time (bar August last year!) during our stay in Division One. We have the people, we have the fans, we just need to get it together for a short while.

0-1 at home pisses me off as much as the next fan, but from it I can gather we weren't truly awful, and it was more bad luck than bad judgement that we didn't get at least a point today.

Sheff, your constant carping (amongst other more obvious candidates) is getting on my t!ts, I must say. For a Saddlers fan, you're sounding awfully like you want the moon on a stick. Players respond to positive reinforcement, which is only natural given that, like the rest of us, they're human beings, and that is basic psychology. To demand their best before responding with your applause is a bit backward, if you'll pardon me saying.

Put the past behind us, expect the worst in front, come out fighting and pull together. Fen Saddlers words are good - 'Pull together or fall apart' (and not a fnarr fnarr joke in sight; we are all dead serious tonight).

Cheers all
Exile

By Cannock (62.31.216.30) on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 11:56 pm: Edit

Sorry Exile but that is complete bollox.

We have the players do we? recent performances suggest not

We weren't truly awful? it is possibly one of the most lacklustre, effortless performances i have ever seen in 20 years of watching the saddlers.

Absolutely bloody awful today.

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.34.9) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 12:12 am: Edit

Exile. To be honest, you get on my t*ts as well, do you know?
As for your comment of "I am less worried about relegation now than at any time (bar August last year!) during our stay in Division One", do you know is PATHETIC.
It just shows the stupidity that comes out of your posts at times. Absolute STUPIDITY.
I have spoken to a number of Saddlers fans today, I have been to all our home matches this season bar 2 and you all those thousands of miles away need to realise how bad we are looking as a team at the moment.
Just grow up and listen for a change instead of spouting of your usual sh*te.

By Stu (195.92.67.65) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 01:18 am: Edit

Cannock, I do think we have the players. After all, this is the same lot that were so close to the Play Offs at Xmas. Unfortunately they aren't performing for a variety of reasons.

Why that is, I don't know, partly Lee and partly the players.

By LarryHaggler (81.134.104.130) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 01:22 am: Edit

Total fudge disgrace today.
I now want CL out, does anybody on this board blame him ?
Well I fudge do, he cannot motivate, he has no idea of tactics or systems. He also does not give youth a chance.
Why was Taylor dropped after the stoke game ? Why are players that do NOT want to play for this club still here.
And on the fans thing, maybe just maybe we have all had enough of these diobolical lack lusture performances.
I have been watching Walsall for 20 years and for the first time I will not be renewing my season ticket along with many of my mates. We have had a gut full.
I'm so angry about the no show from out team in a game our manager called the most important of the season.

By Jman (82.37.172.170) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 03:34 am: Edit

Completly agree. Lee Out, i'm not going to Wigan, You know why, cuz it's a waste of money and it will •••• me off for the whole weekend, never felt like this b4 and i've been folowing walsall for a long long time. I can accept losing, the manor that we lose though is unacceptable. Give me the shirt and i'd win man of the match today on my effort alone with out touching the ball. DISGRACE, GET LEE OUT!!!!!

By Esso (213.48.83.11) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 08:25 am: Edit

There is little doubt that our early season form and results have raised expectations and because we are having a bad patch at the moment things look a lot worse than they are.
Someone once said," Managers manage, players play and supporters support" at the moment none of the three catagories are doing their bit. I agree it was a very poor first half performance but it is not helped when players are roundly booed within 10 minutes of walking onto the pitch. Its easy to support a successful team, we need to get behind the lads and try and lift them, slag them off on here if you like but get behind them on matchday, I doubt they go out there intending to play poorly.

By bournemouthsaddler (80.3.164.4) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 09:26 am: Edit

Lee knows our shortcomings and has tried to do something about it.The problem is playes do not queque up to join us.We need pace, youth and energy.The midfield was too old, all the players are okay but not all in the team together.

By Beni (81.128.162.42) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 11:46 am: Edit

Lets stop the post mortem now and just agree that unless something changes we are going down.

Far to many people keep insisting its alright, Lee is alright (I have been one of them).

I am now having serious doubts.

By coxanddrummie (195.93.34.9) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 12:41 pm: Edit

Yet another pathetic spineless performance and one which i sadly become to expect. I predicted 6 months ago that Lee was an incapable manager. Again sadly i think i will be proved right because WE WILL be relegated this year unless we sack Lee NOW.

He has resorted us to a team that is now incapable of even trying. I think if you took a poll from Walsall players and asked whether they have respect for thier manager the answer would surely be NO, this was proved yesterday.

Of course a lot of players should hold there heads in shame for that putrid show but the bottom line is they are CL's players and he cannot motivate them, simple as that. Sammways should never have played another game for Walsall but because we have a weak manager who is desperate all morality and principle is thrown out the window.

Colin Lee is not only a sh*t manager but has not one ounce of integrity in his body. The piece of sh*t was back chatting paying supporters again yesterday because he was too weak and too thick to be able to do anything about HIS team of has beens. The wan*er has seriously lost the plot not that i ever thought he had one.

If i was Jeff Bonsor this morning id get the players together and tell them Lee is sacked. Id then ring a newspaper and tell them the same thing. I wouldn't even give Lee the courtesy of telling him first. Let the piece of sh*t find out through the press.

I would then call on 3 men who would be asked to take the place of Lee, Halsall and Bracewell. The names of these musketeers are DAVE MERRINGTON, DON GOODMAN AND ANDY RAMMEL. I would do my utmost to bring all 3 to the club. Could you imagine our players producing that yesterday and then having to front them 3

By Chris Owen (213.48.83.21) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 01:13 pm: Edit

The goings getting tough. There are evidently two camps - those who want to turn on the club and players and find fault, and those who know that whatever happens, we have to stick together and back the eleven players on the pitch. Sure, we need a change - a new face or two perhaps, plus the return to form and/or fitness of several influential players - we are missing, for example, Darren Wrack, and the option of playing, or bringing on, Steve Corica. The manager's there to the end of the season, at very least, whatever your views, its not there that change will come. Samways wobble, and Merson's addictions, have taken much from our midfield, which right now is where we are most exposed.

What worries me most is the sense of a club, and a playing staff, divided against itself, and that may take us down regardless of the merits of the players we have. With the right frame of mind, a little luck, the right formation and the right selection, we do have just enough - but we really could do with a GON or equivalent rising over the horizon right now to give everyone a lift, and some belief.

Fensaddler

By sj (195.93.34.9) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 01:40 pm: Edit

Ok Fen whats a GON? And do you realise that we haven't won since Corica pulled is hamstring.
It's gettin hot in the kitchen boys.

By Jorge14 (195.93.34.9) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 02:14 pm: Edit

Yes Cox...because that is going to get the LMA recommending the Walsall job to its members if Bonsor did that...

And what's with all the sudden criticism of Bracewell, Cox? My understanding is that we wouldn't have thrown three attacking players on at the times we did if it would have been Lee and Halsall making all the decision...

By coxanddrummie (195.93.34.9) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 03:03 pm: Edit

Oh so are you saying Bracewell is making the decisions are you Jorge14. You may well be on to something there.
After all Colin Lee would be weak enough to accept that im sure.

By LarryHaggler (81.134.104.130) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 03:24 pm: Edit

A GON is Gary O'neill methinks.

By Stu (195.92.67.75) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 04:57 pm: Edit

SJ, agreed I think the return of Corica will be a boost, espeically when Merson is not around. But we did get a draw at home to West Ham and then win at Cardiff, both of which were after Corica pulled his hamstring at Wimbledon.

By sj (195.93.34.9) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 06:02 pm: Edit

I knew it I just bl*ody knew it.

By steve blick (81.77.208.171) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 06:14 pm: Edit

Regarding the quiet crowds,the chap sitting next to me yesterday summed it up.

Some of the players we had a few years ago would run through brick walls for the club.The likes of Viveash,Barras,Watkiss,O'Connor,Keates,Rambo,Goodman,Pointon,Wilson,Marsh.They would all risk injury for the cause of the club.

Who have we got now,Ritchie,Roper & Taylor.That's it.No wonder the crowd are quiet.No talent,no aggression,no nothing.

I'll support Walsall as long as i'm alive but when the players don't seem to be bothered i sometimes wonder why i should bother.

The players we've got now don't seem to want to get their knees dirty.

By David Potter (67.64.186.89) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 06:38 pm: Edit

First of all, I appreciate the Watford fans for coming on here and offering their encouragement.

Jorge 14, your critisism of Samways was unjustified. Yes, he has a bad 45 minutes, but he clearly wasn't fit. his contibution to the club, since his arrival, has been nothing short of immense. I doubt we would have been in this division without his help last season. If the rest of the team were as consistent as he has been, we wouldn't any teams above us!

For the first time this season, I noticed a defeated look on players faces. It wasn't a "We're going to lose today" expression, more of a resigned to their fate look. They clearly lack motivation, some of them need a kick in the backside, others it wouldn't have an effect on. What is a real concern to me is that some of the team simply aren't fit enough!

Our aging midfield has been caught out, time and again, pace and width have killed us and will continue to do so, until we get some of our own.

Taylor, proved again that he deserves a run in the side.
Wales, is promising, he's going to cause some problems with his pace. He need a few more games to settle in.
Carbon, put in another solid performance - great player, when his head's on right!
Jorge, he plays till he drops. How I wish others had his work rate!

Not having won this year isn't exactly inspiring any confidence. The very fickle Walsall fans are not helping their team, at all, by sitting on their hands and barracking some of the players. Their attitude seem to be "you do something good and I might applaude!" I'm sorry folks, but that stinks! As Esso so rightly said, "Managers manage, players play and supporters support."
Some of you feel that the manager and players are not living up to their part of the bargin, well, we're not either!

By Jorge14 (195.93.34.9) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 06:51 pm: Edit

Fair enough David...just the frustrations of yesterday getting the better of me I think! Obviously I recognise what Vinny has done for the club, just take a look at some of my posts when he walked out. I called him "one of the best players to play for Walsall, and he's only been here 11 months".
Again, it'd be pretty ignorant of me to now say I don't recognise his contribution to the club last season.
I also wasn't aware that he was carrying an injury when I posted.

Steve hit the nail on the head. We don't have more than 5 players who will fight for this club. Fair enough, luxury players such as Samways and Merson are hugely beneficial on most occasions, but there comes a time when we need an Adi Viveash to go straight through a player, or to pop up with the vital goal.

Above anything else, that is where I'd criticise Colin Lee this season. He's made some cracking buys this season. But on top of Ritchie in defence, and Jorge in attack, we need a little annoying runt in the middle of the park. And as I've said, if that costs a little bit of money, then surely that'd be justified to keep us in this division.

Surely Paul Bracewell, an experienced, battling central midfielder will see this?


By Magic Man Fan (213.1.45.2) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 06:53 pm: Edit

Agree with some of your post Cox.

But Goodman? The same Goodman that was calling for Albion to buy Walker from us in his E & S column last week?

Somehow I don't think he's as committed to us as you think.

Jorge. Samways was injured before the game. Lee shouldn't have picked him, simple as that.

I know the atmosphere has been pants since the new stand opened but at times considering the level of performance I didn't think it was as bad as previous ganes yesterday. There were times in the second half when we tried to back the team, but weren't getting a lot in return.

By David Potter (67.64.186.89) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 07:23 pm: Edit

Jorge, I understand your, and everyone's, frustration.

I've been saying all season long that we're lacking a leader on the pitch. A MOC type player!
Someone with a "never say die" attitude. A motivator, disciplinarian, role model and an inspirational leader!

I've been a little disappointed that Ritchie hasn't assumed that role. Tough, no-nonsense Scotsman. Speaking of which, those of you who remember Roger Hind and Doug Fraser, there was leadership for you!

By Zorg the Leveller (81.135.55.46) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 07:50 pm: Edit

BSaD report up now guys

http://www.bsad.org/0304/reports/walsall/ar1.html

By BS (62.31.217.95) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 07:51 pm: Edit

I have to say, I think a change back to 3-5-2 might see us grind out the results we need until the end of the season. I think with Stevie and Wracky coming back might give us the fight and creativity we have been missing BUT im a very concerned saddler which could get worse with Forest v Gillingham on wednesday, IF forest win we will only be THREE points clear of the DROP. Forest,watford and Derby have got winnable games on saturday while we go to wigan who dont look like losing. Before my birthday 18th march we could easily be in the bottom THREE. Its looking very BLEAK, maybe a change is needed...

By Chris Owen (62.31.216.234) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 09:04 pm: Edit

Zorg, thanks for a fine report. I had to laugh about our announcer - spot on, part of the slightly old world charm that still hangs on at Walsall. Better that than the over the top shoutiness we endured at Forest last week, alongside a complete lack of sporting acknowledgement of the visiting team. No way at Forest did we get a genial message of welcome over the PA. Apparently you reckon we weren't as bad as we think we were, which is cause for some small optimism.

Fensaddler

By Geoff Whiting (195.92.168.173) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 09:52 pm: Edit

Truly excellent Zorg, I echo Chris Owen's above comments.

Good luck for the remainder of the season, just don't finish up 4th from bottom with us 3rd or I might stop liking you !

By Surrey Saddler (195.93.34.9) on Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 10:57 pm: Edit

Just got back after a weekend in Walsall with the wife. A chill wind up there don't you think. So what has gone wrong? Some people on here say after Boxing Day we were near to the play offs "with the same set of players". Not true, I am afraid. We got to that position with O'Neil, Baird and Vincent in the team- all quality first division players who could have taken us further. OK, we sort of knew they would not stay but instead of trying to keep them/replace them with other players of that ilk we did nothing. At the time I said that Lee(or more likely Bonsor) saw out mid table position, thought we were sitting pretty and was lulled by that false sense of security to do nothing. And now, well, chickens have come home to roost. Yesterday, against Watford there were 5 players on the pitch who really have no place in a serious first division outfit. They were Birch, Emblen, Matias, Bazeley, Aranalde. Added to that Merson is out for an indefinite time and Samway's attitude is in question. So what to do? I hav'nt a clue, I am just a guy who goes along to watch and do not claim to be a football brain. I do not, however, relish Div 2 football next year. And if I don't, I am pretty sure Jeff Bonsor doesn't either. So, Mr Bonsor, you are the REAL manager. Do something about it.

By Chris Owen (62.31.216.114) on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 12:02 am: Edit

Surrey, can't agree with your comment above about Aranalde - barely put a foot wrong yesterday, and was one of the better players on the pitch for me. Did his job in defence, and was frequently our best option going forward. I guess his problem may be that he isn't always so - but yesterday when he needed to stand up and be counted, he did.

Fensaddler

By Geoff Whiting (195.92.168.163) on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 02:04 am: Edit

Obviously we lost yesterday, and that has provoked much negativity on the board, as if we did nothing for the whole match.

Well excuse me for pointing this out, but although we were awful up to half time, as far as I recall Jimmy was NEVER called on to make a single save by the Watford team, just a few simple fielding operations. And their goal came from an awful individual error by Samways, followed by a mis-hit shot (if you could call it a shot) that then took a deflection and left Wakker stranded - in other words a total fluke !

We did actually outplay Watford for most of the second half guys, and we did actually make at least SIX great chances in that second half, most of which were fluffed by pathetic finishing from Jorge (who was otherwise excellent and gave 110%), Pedro and Emblen, and poor decision making by Wales and Birch (shooting way too early from distance when more composure would have seen them move in closer on goal).

So from 1-0 down we could and should easily have come back to win with room to spare. But the fact we didn't is apparently Lees' fault, yet again.

Sorry I can't accept that. The second half performance was clearly a big improvement that didn't get the result it deserved. Watford went away with a win they didn't deserve, and once again lots of us don't lay the blame on the players that missed those easy chances, they just choose to single out the manager instead.

If the reports are true, Lee certainly made mistakes in selecting players that were not fully fit, and yes we can blame him for that, but we still did more than enough to win the game but it was the players, not CL, that let us down at crucial moments when they failed to score after creating simple chances. Anyone who blames CL for players individual failings is just plain bl**dy stupid.

By Neil Ravenscroft (82.37.184.186) on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 08:22 am: Edit

Geoff, I'm normally the voice of reason!

By df (193.237.102.207) on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 08:34 am: Edit

Well that makes me simply blo0dy stupid then Geoff. If you select an unfit player and his lack of mobility costs you a goal and eventually the game then it's difficult to look anywhere else in my plainly stupid eyes. I also disagree about six great chances in the second half. Sure there were chances and we did plug away but in all honesty we haven't really carved them open once in the second half.

With regard to the Lee debate, personally I don't think it matters anymore. Is is becoming more and more clear that the damage has already been done.

By Stu (13.16.137.11) on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 09:33 am: Edit

I've think df is spot on there... At the end of the day, whether it was Samways lack or mobility or downright stupidity, the fact is why were playing an injured 35 yr old and a 32yr old with a broken toe, when we had a perfectly good young midfielder on the bench.

THe only defence you can make of Lee is that injured or not, Samways should have put that ball into the stand and not pi$$ed about with it.

I do think Oakes should have been released, but why did he release him when both Samways and Osborn are injured. Why didn't he just hold onto him for another week or two!

Also, we may have created half a dozen half chances, but we didn't create one gilt edged change, where you can put your hand on your heart and say "he should have bloody buried that". We had Jorge's snap shot, and a couple of decent opportunities from distance, but no real sitters.

To be honest, I think its the beginning of the end for Lee. Andy Townsed made a comment on Houllier on Talksport this morning, along the lines of 'when things go wrong, when whatever he does doesn't work, when the tinkering and training ground routines don't come to fruition, you know that your reign is coming to an end'. That seem's the case with Lee at the minute, we need fresh impetus. So unless Bonser is prepared to give him the cash for 2/3 quality players, then the only other way to get fresh impetus is a change in management (although that'll require cash to pay off Lee's contract and even possibly a new manager coming in, and even then he'll want a signing or two on deadline week).

By Neil Ravenscroft (62.172.127.2) on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 09:38 am: Edit

Stragne, isn't it, when you look at the opposition point of view. This is from a local rag down there:-

Pidgeley saves day
By Ken Dyer
23 February 2004
While Neil Sullivan was being blamed for Arsenal's winner at Stamford Bridge, it was another Chelsea goalkeeper, Lenny Pidgeley, who was earning all the plaudits at Walsall, writes Ken Dyer.

Pidgeley, on loan from Chelsea until the end of the season, made several fine saves as Watford won 1-0 at the Bescot Stadium to earn their second successive League victory.

They seem to thinl we played better than our own fans do.

By Richard Hall (146.227.1.9) on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 09:44 am: Edit

...especially if you look at those forthcoming fixtures.

On 5 Live on Saturday night, Keegan took full responsibility for Man City's bad run of form, stating that he picked the team, he motivated them and the buck stopped with him.

On WM on Saturday night, Lee could not understand why the team collapsed in the second-half against Forest and stated that he could not understand why they (not we) were not up for it on Saturday.

BTW Jorge14, you deserved Birch's baleful look as he was substituted. Quite how he gets jeered off and Osborn gets a polite round of applause is beyond me. See Albert Gilsop's summing-up elsewhere. I assume that in your world missing sitters (Jorge) or being permanently offside (Josey) defines a striker?

By coxanddrummie (195.93.34.9) on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 10:11 am: Edit

Geoff Watford deserved the win completely, they wanted it more. Are you seriously saying that Colin Lee can take no blame at all for

Motivating HIS players
Picking the wrong team
Choosing the wrong formation
Been so negative
Inability to change things

If thats the case then he may as well stay at home because according to you he has no influence whatsoever. It's all the players fault eh Geoff. Colin Lee's players.

It's a pathetic arguement to eradicate the manager for everything. The fact is he is to blame for the lot. The players, HIS PLAYERS don't want him as manager, that was plain to see. They don't listen to him, they don't respect him. They want him OUT NOW and if half of you lot had half a brain you would want the same.

By Markw (81.136.4.6) on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 11:28 am: Edit

On a more positive note the half time team talk worked a treat --we defended our first half deficit superbly!

By Mal (164.143.244.33) on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 12:14 pm: Edit

Quite simply we are not good enough, do not have the strength in depth and are playing with NO confidence. Why this situation has arisen, probably several reasons, player unrest, no money, no ambition, no money, no money no money.

If you look at the game as a neutral the first half was shocking. Jimmy had nothing to do but for a defelcted goal and a great save from Mahon.

Second half we dominated but with players who looked dissinterested. Birchy needs pulling out, he has had a long run in the side and is not good enough. For those who think that is a little harsh just watch him play if picked. His reaction time and awareness is just not to the standard required.

Baze did ok, Carbon took most the 1st half to win any air ball, Ritchie looked a shadow of his pre Earnshaw roasting, Ziggy was just Ziggy with a little better defending this week.

The midfield, Mmmmmmmmmmm everyone has said it...Vinny had a mare, Osbourn tried and Emblem is stuck in reverse gear.

Upfront Wales, pace Mmmmmmm not sure on that one but good in the air, Jorge should have scored twice and Birch just needs dropping.

Formation = Wrong
Players Picked = Wrong
Subs = Not alot to choose from, but Taylor OK

Where do we go from here, for me 4th from bottom by our fingertips, but saying that a win away at Wigan would not suprise me in the slightest.

Oh and a message to all Saddlers, you support a team through good and bad and make your feelings known at full time. Quite what booing adds at half time I don't know, was I at the Custard Bowl mmmmmmmmm please God NO

By Stu (13.16.137.11) on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 01:15 pm: Edit

Drummie, Watford were not the better team, don't be so bleedin soft.

I live 20 miles from Watford, the report on the local ceefax, on BBC 3CR and even the oen Watford fan I've spoken to so far all said they were living on their edge during the 2nd half.

They outplayed us for 30 minutes, that's all, during which time they scored a goal and hit the crossbar. If Jorge had buried that sitter before half time, then it'd have finished them off. They'd have been thinking "we've played so well, but still aren't winning" whilst their 2nd half display really was a lesson in how to defend your penalty box.

By Chris Owen (80.86.36.158) on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 02:04 pm: Edit

it strikes me that we are a superb example of a club collectively (players and fans) willing themselves into the bottom three through sheer lack of confidence.

Fensaddler

By df (193.237.102.207) on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 03:47 pm: Edit

Markw, you've cheered me up no end. Classic

By Ian Gittins (81.132.213.229) on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 05:01 pm: Edit

Chris Owen and Geoff Whiting, you are spot on. It is too easy to whinge, barrack and boo the team, and generally add to the mood of defeatism. Any fool can do that (and they do, oh how they do). Now is the time for getting behind the team AND the manager, and not panicking.

By coxanddrummie (195.93.34.9) on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 05:09 pm: Edit

Stu Saturdays scoreline reads Walsall 0 Watford 1.

Ill choose to ignore all your if's, but's, maybe's. Ill let the facts speak for themselves. And if if's and but's are the only exscuses that you Lee in people have got then perhaps you had better take a good hard look at what's happening in front of your eyes.

Perhaps then you will come up with the conclusion which i did 6 months ago that we have an idiot in charge of team affairs. LEE OUT NOW

By Jorge14 (195.93.34.9) on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 05:38 pm: Edit

Richard, I didn't actually cheer Birch of the pitch, nor did I boo him, as I don't see how that helps matters. It just gets players wound up like Lawrence did with Sheff a few weeks back...
I simply didn't applaud Birch off the pitch, as I feel that his performance that week, as so many performances didn't warrant it.

I must admit to, in the first half, making some comments about his lack of guts...but not going as far to cheer a player openly off the pitch.

By Geoff Whiting (80.177.14.124) on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 07:03 pm: Edit

Not one gilt edged chance Stu? Excuse me but :

what was the so-called "brilliant save" in the first half when Jorge fired a rocket straight at the keeper when he had all of the rest of the goal to aim at from 5 yards out ?

what was Jorge doing on his hands and knees beating the ground around the penalty spot with his fist in the second half when he missed an absolute sitter one on one with the keeper?

what was that one where the goalie dived to his right hand post to stop Jorge's unbelievably weak toe-poked effort that with a clean strike should have beaten the keeper or taken him and the ball into the net ?

what about Pedro's volley in injury time, ten yards out, ball dropped beautifully, no one challenged him, but he managed to put it at least five yards over the bar.

There were more, I don't need to describe them all. No clear cut chances ? Give me a break.

I'm sure that any one of those, apart from Pedro's in the dying seconds, would have seen us go on to win the game.

C&D, I did not say I don't blame CL at all, read again and you'll see I mentioned the selection of injured players as CL's mistakes, but the players, not CL, missed all those easy chances that would and should have given us the three points regardless of anything else.

Read the Watford site and see what they are saying, they were on a knife edge all second half and were fortunate to survive - the words of their reporter, not mine.

By ANoS (81.135.75.207) on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 07:58 pm: Edit

The guy on this thread, I forget his name and can't find the post now, but he mentions going back to 3-5-2... I think that might be a good idea. It worked at this stage last season and I think with Roper in with Ritchie and Carbon we have a pretty strong back 3. Corica would add something to midfield too.

By Mark Ferguson (62.252.64.11) on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 08:29 pm: Edit

On our local station it was clear that we were very much under pressure from you guys and without our goalie producing some very good saves could've lost.

By Stu (195.92.67.79) on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 08:57 pm: Edit

Geoff, I meant we didn't create a gilt edged chance in the 2nd half.

For me, a gilt edged chance is one of those were you say "Bleedin hell, how the •••• did he miss that".

We had one of those, Jorge's. The rest were just decent chances or half chances.

By Geoff Whiting (195.92.168.175) on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 09:32 pm: Edit

Well Stu, I said something like you've quoted, but I guess it was a lot worse, when Jorge missed that chance in the 1st half and about three times for Jorge and once for Pedro in the 2nd half !

Christ, don't anybody tell me that chance of Pedro's at the end wasn't a gilt-edged blue-chip virtually-unmissable sitter. You'll never see a ball dropping sweeter, crying out to be rammed into the roof of the net, and no one whatsoever putting in a challenge on Pedro - that was a gilt-edged bl**dy awful inexplicable appalling miss, absolutely no other way of describing it.

As I said, I am totally sure that taking just one of those Jorge chances would have given us the lift to take Watford apart and go on to win. Pedro's was too late for that though, we'd have had to settle for one point by then.

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.34.9) on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 10:38 pm: Edit

Geoff, what do you honestly expect from Jorge? He cost us 150k, next to nothing. If you want someone who will score 20 goal a season, go and find him, thats the easy bit. Then get him to come to Walsall, thats the impossible bit.
Even the best players miss chances.
Jorge will always get you around 12-15 a season at this level, which I personally think is ok considering what we paid.
Yes, he misses chances, but at least he has the brain to get in those positions, unlike certain other players we have at the club.

By Dave Roe (81.135.117.128) on Monday, February 23, 2004 - 10:56 pm: Edit

Jorge's current run of form, since the turn of the year has been fine. If he could (big could I know) keep his current scoring ratio up over a whole season we would be looking at a 20 goal plus striker. Well actually, we would be looking at a player leaving Bescot, but you know what I mean !

Sheff, it's not just Jorge's brain that gets him into positions that certain other players don't, it's also something to do with "being arsed to get there". Something that a certain other player wouldn't understand if it hit him in the face.

By Dave Roe (81.135.117.128) on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 12:07 am: Edit

I notice super Colin's remarks about the game on the official site:-

"We lost the game in the first half, to be fair"

"It was a bad goal to give away. You need to clear the ball in those situations"

It's true that you have to work in the game to be able to see things us fans just don't see.

Thanks Col, now I know where we went wrong.

By Geoff Whiting (195.92.168.167) on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 03:25 am: Edit

Sheff I think you're missing my real point. I've already said "at least Jorge got in those positions" - credit to him for that, you don't need to tell me, I know and have said so. And he worked his goolies off in this game, but that's nothing unusual for Jorge, his work-rate is back to his best.

The point I'm really trying to get across is aimed at those who say this was a totally clueless performance etc. as though we did nothing in the whole game.

OK we were awful for 30 minutes, maybe 35, of the first half, but should still have gone in level at half-time. Then after half-time, we made, as a team, enough chances in that second half to have won the game, and we could and should have come from behind and won it by some distance.

My main gripe is not with Jorge for missing his chances, in fact I'd say Pedro probably missed the easiest chance of the lot, but it's with the "fans" who seem to be suggesting that we did nothing for the whole game. To them, I say "read what the Watford fans have said" - they were under the cosh for most of the second-half and were sh*tting themselves expecting an equaliser at any time. The second half was in truth not so bad for us, we were just sh*t at finishing.

But CL seems to be the only one that's blamed for that, someone tell me why that should be when he isn't out there on the pitch.

By Dave Roe (217.37.14.235) on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 10:01 am: Edit

Because he sends them out unmotivated and lacking self belief week after week after week ........

By Stu (13.16.137.11) on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 10:03 am: Edit

Dave, that's one comment and I really wish you wouldn't take things so out of context.

You really have it in for Lee and I think thats what gets people's back up. The bloke has worked wonders here, on and off the pitch. But you've been putting the boot into him for the vast majority of the season.

Lee could tell us things we aren't even intelligent enough to see about the game, but what's the point as it wouldn't help us fans understand it much more.

Agreed, I think he is reaching a critical point and I'd be sad to see him leave if he did, I'd actually like to see us keep him on at a higher level if we were to get a new manager, because his development of our infrastructure has been fantastic, his ability to attract decent players is good to see as well. But for a bloke who has done wonders in the last 2 1/2 years, you've got such a downer on him.

By SheffieldSaddler (82.38.185.114) on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 10:39 am: Edit

I must agree with Stu on the above. I dont like all things Lee does. And at the end of games sometimes feel very frustrated.
But at end of day, like Stu has said, the developments made by Lee have been fantastic.
And he has kept us in this division for 2 1/2 years.
So Dave, I understand your frustration but I think you are going well over the top at the moment.

By Alan (195.74.100.165) on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 12:55 pm: Edit

Dave isn't alone though. Whilst he may be in the minority on this board, he certainly isn't in the minority amongst the Purple End lower tier.

Take a straw poll and I'm sure the split between Pro and Anti-Lee would be 50-50.

There's no doubting that he's done a good job for us - just like Graydon did. But sometimes you just have to thank a manager for his efforts and let him go. Just like we did with Graydon.

Oh and I can hear it now 'who are we going to get in to replace him???'. Well let's be honest, how many people were tipping Colin Lee to take over from Ray???

Colin's name came out of the blue - just like any new candidate's would.

For my own opinion, I think Colin will stay and will take us down. If this happens, it will be interesting to see if he can replicate Ray's achievements and get us promoted at the first time of asking.

Let's hope I'm wrong.

By Stu (13.16.137.11) on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 01:27 pm: Edit

I agree completely Alan, it is 50-50. I just wish some of those against Lee would use their brain a bit more, I'm not referring to Dave or anyone here by that.

When Watford scored on Saturday, 2 blokes about 10 seats down from me both jumped out of their seats and started yelling at Lee as if it was his fault. Now, if we were watching the same game, I saw Samways try to twice take an opposition player on just outside his 6 yard box!

I'll openly admit that the last 2/3 games have seen more start to question whether a new manager would be useful. But that means Bonser finding cash to (a) pay Lee off (b) possibly find cash to pay compo for a new manager and (c) give a new manager cash for new players that he'll want.

By merson10 (217.33.209.253) on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 02:19 pm: Edit

It seems to me the people who are anti-Lee would like someone who is more charismatic (ie doesnt stand arms folded on the touchline for 90 minutes), is a good motivator, spends money and plays positive, exciting, attacking football. Let me put forward to you a certain Mr Barry Fry. He seems to fit the bill for all we are supposedly looking for in a manager for Walsall Football Club. However he has also taken Peterborough - a club very similar in many ways to ourselves, except with a better youth policy - to the brink of administration and relegation to division three. Sometimes you have to realise the grass isnt always greener on the other side.

By Dave Roe (217.37.14.235) on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 02:27 pm: Edit

I freely admit that I'm not a big fan of Colin Lee, I've never really been that fussed from the start. He just ain't my kind of manager. Despite this, up until recently, I have supported him.

I know that, even though we've got the best squad in our history, it doesn't mean we are going to be promotion contenders. But anybody who thinks we should settle for 17th place with the squad we have is under-estimating our potential, IMHO. I have seen some dire teams this season, teams which we should and could have got more from if only we had shown a bit of adventure and self belief. This squad should not be battling against relegation, lack of money or not.

Actually, I agree with you Stu regarding Lee going "upstairs". I think it would be a beneficial move for all parties. I could see him doing a good job in a general manager role. Let's face it, even his staunchest supporters like yourself have conceded that his in-match management and tactical skills can sometimes leave a lot to be desired.

By Chris Owen (80.86.36.158) on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 02:32 pm: Edit

But in bringing in Bracewell as first team coach, it may be that Lee gets to do more of the back room work anyway - which may work to the same ends.

Fensaddler

By Dave Roe (217.37.14.235) on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 02:33 pm: Edit

Oh by the way Sheff, I may be going over the top. But I truly beleive what I say. Who else do we know who can go a bit OTT when he truly beleives what he is saying ? I'll give you a clue, he lives in South Yorkshire !!!


By Neil Ravenscroft (62.172.127.2) on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 02:42 pm: Edit

Neil Warnock? (sorry, Sheff)

By Ian Gittins (81.132.172.159) on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 03:14 pm: Edit

Arthur Scargill?

By kevin (195.93.34.9) on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 05:16 pm: Edit

Gorrit! Peter Sutcliffe,and yer right,he did have a bit of an attitude problem.

By Neil Ravenscroft (62.172.127.2) on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 05:42 pm: Edit

No, no, I've got it now - it's worse than any of them, it's Fred Truman!

By jim trott (195.144.135.189) on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 05:51 pm: Edit

no no no no no - yes!

By Exile (203.167.253.205) on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 08:22 pm: Edit

Surely it is that fat northern monkey, "two-jags" Prescott?

By coxanddrummie (195.93.34.9) on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 10:41 pm: Edit

Thanks a lot Stu. I have had a great day of prosperous business discussions, fine wine, great food, lots of admiring looks from some beautiful women but it's all been soured by me literally chucking up from reading your latest post. Brace yourself people

"Lee could tell us things we aren't even intelligent enough to see about the game, but what's the point as it wouldn't help us fans understand it much more."

Im sorry Stu but that is the most repulsive quote ive ever had the displeasure of reading. It is ill wager the most condescending, patronising statement that has ever been made in the history of the world. I can only presume that the football that CL has served up has sent you mental. For that i sympathise and forgive you.

On the subject of Colin Lee moving upstairs, im all for that. But can we make it the Purple stand staircase with a contractual agreement that he jumps when he's at the very top.

We could sell tickets for that spectacle, id happily pay in advance, name yer price Mr Whalley. It would also be great goalkeeping practice and much needed for Petterson. He could be the man to catch his brain when Lee's head hits the deck, although i do warn you Andy, it will be pea sized with negative content.

By Dave Roe (81.131.178.136) on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 11:10 pm: Edit

Coxanddrummie, you really don't do the anti-Lee argument any favours, do you ?

I know I am the one who stands up regularly for peoples right to free speech, but you don't half talk some nonsense.

By Neil Ravenscroft (82.37.184.186) on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 11:22 pm: Edit

I think he just needs a sense of humour transplant, due to the fact he's convinced he's being funny and everyone else knows he isn't. He is just the most completely tiresome jerk it has been my misfortune to come across.

By coxanddrummie (195.93.34.9) on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 11:56 pm: Edit

You obviously don't look in the mirror much Neil. You may find your misfortune takes a turn for the worst.

Let me know how you get on with your sense of humour transplant your having very soon as well Neil. Im booked to have it later in the year due to the fact that there is a big waiting list. Needy first and all that.

Mr Roe don't worry about compiling an Anti-Lee argument. Im past all that now. It's much more fun just mocking people for thier obvious mental misfortune of actually liking him.

They have nowhere to go with thier Lee in argument anymore you see Mr Roe. They are trying so hard to worm out with some credibility by saying he should move upstairs. That's thier pathetically weak way of saying actually he is sh*t and he has to go.

They must be just nicey happy clappy people who want Lee to be in some way involved in thier garden of eden future of 17th in division 1. Upsatairs my ar*e. He's either in or out. Im not falling for that one. Therfore i will enjoy some large doses of humble pie on this board very soon. Good old Colin will see to that

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.34.9) on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 12:11 am: Edit

Yawn. Yawn. Snooooooooooooooooooze.

By reading saddler (81.6.240.157) on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 12:26 am: Edit

agree with sheff...... plus interestingly cox your views never are double taked like others have done ... i.e the quote always used: i must admitt he aint pe