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West Brom (a) - League - 9th January 2004

Reports and reaction from the 2003-04 season as Walsall finished 22nd (R) in Division 1
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West Brom (a) - League - 9th January 2004

Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:06 pm

By supersaddlers (213.48.83.194) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 03:33 pm: Edit

We'll with it only being 3 days away I thought Id start the post.
The way albion are playing at the moment at home and the way we are defending away from home. It can only be 0-0.
A little bit of coincidence- we played albion on the 9th august (9th this month)- I sat in seat number 9 for the home game and my seat number at the hawthornes is 9. we went into the game after a 2-1 defeat (birmingham and millwall). albion go into it after a 1-0 defeat (forest and Telford).
So after thinking about all that, 4-1?
UPTHESADDLERS

By Will (212.125.68.234) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 04:29 pm: Edit

0-0 bore draw as two sides who are struggling meet, and both are desperate not to lose. It'll be like two hopeless fat blokes wrestling, with neither good enough to finish the other off. W.B.A. might show some of their pace and beat us 1-0, but I reckon it'll be a desperate game. Aren't I glad I paid £40 for a pair of tickets to go and watch it.

By Delves Saddler (194.73.163.108) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 04:58 pm: Edit

So return your tickets, then.

I am going to have a change of heart, tactically, for this game only.

I would play Merson for this particular away game as it is a derby - a better atmos. produced by walsall fans than at home and the very nature of a derby means you can treat it as a home game, tactically - and the fire will be in his belly after 9th August (he knows he can do it against them).

I am sure CL will play him for this, aswell, so I am going to stick my neck out and say 1-0 to us. Albion have only scored 5 in their last six league games. Yes, I know we are just as bad but at least we have known how to win in that period and I have a gut feeling that Merson will pull off a stonking game and score a blinder.

By Purple Pete (81.133.132.111) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 08:02 pm: Edit

If Albion lose they could drop to 4th.

The spotlight is on their strikers who are already having a bad time.

The TV cameras are there hoping for an upset.

They will want revenge for the 4-1 thrashing at the Bescot, in fact Albion fans will accept nothing less.

They can expect a Walsall team who will fancy their chances in this derby game.

They would have expected at least 4 points from the Walsall games at the start of the season.

I would have taken 2 points for Walsall at the start of the season and we have got 3 and a game to go.

SWEET! I dont envey the Albion team when they walk out on friday night - I expect they will be wearing nappies.

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.34.9) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 12:21 am: Edit

Only 1 loss to Albion in 7 matches. We have NOTHING to fear!

By Walsall Supporter (82.37.192.152) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 08:30 am: Edit

Well that's the kiss of death if I ever heard it....ARRGH!

By Ulster Saddler (212.3.176.14) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 02:30 pm: Edit

The way to get 3 points on Friday is to hit them early - if we go one up and look good their fans will start having a go and hopefully their players will start hiding as each one may be too afraid to make a mistake rather than actually try and do something.

I will be disappointed if we start defensively and wait to see what happens before we attempt to be a bit more adventurous. There was never as good a time to play Albion as now so we should grasp the nettle and go for it.

UP THE SADDLERS

By Dave Roe (217.37.14.235) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 02:41 pm: Edit

The trouble is, the earlier we take the lead the earlier "they push us back".

By cat3 (219.76.96.1) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 04:02 pm: Edit

No fear, we will attack and play in the passing sequence of God's hand. Believe mate! God is here to watch Walsall play in style!

By Jorge14 (195.93.34.9) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 07:51 pm: Edit

If only cat was manager for a day!

2-1 to us is my tip tommorrow...an early goal for either team is key as it will open the game up, but I can see us going there to attack. Every single Walsall player knows that we can run riot over Albion, as Sheff said, 1 loss in 7 matches, - and every Albion players know that they can be torn apart.

As Purple Pete said...I don't envy the Albion players on Friday...put it another way, We've got nothing to lose, they have everything to lose. A defeat on Friday could drop them significantly off the pace...I think we're going into the match on paper as the underdogs, but I think mentally, we have the edge.

By Stu (13.16.137.11) on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 09:36 am: Edit

A lot depends on how Albion play, if they make the mistake of sitting off and letting us play football, then I think we'll take all 3 points and put on one hell of a spectacle. We'd do that against any team that sits off and lets us play the game and style we want.

As such, I hope Albion do keep both Koumas and Sakiri in the team as they did at Forest, as that'd say their intent is to play football and let us do the same.

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.34.9) on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 10:47 pm: Edit

Except for the first 15 minutes I think we were useless tonight. The misses from Wrack and Birch, I am afraid you have to take at this level. Should have been 2-0 up before they even got a kick.
After that it was, lets get the ball, and then lets give it away. So many times I lost count the number of times that ball was given away by a Walsall player.
I didnt realise how much we really do need pace up front. As soon as we broke our lack of pace just allowed the West Brom defenders to walk back into position. Leitao, Birch and Merson, none have them have pace.
I honestly think its time for the board to make an investment in a striker with pace who scores goals, hello Jamie Cureton.
We run out of ideas after just 15 minutes, and that is just not good enough at this level. The normal, lets sit back and defend which has plagued Walsall FC for the last 6 years came home to roost once again.
Positives - None, what I can think off!

By Walsall Supporter (82.37.192.152) on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 11:10 pm: Edit

I was getting frustrated watching Samways keep passing the ball backwards rather than forward.

I agree with Sheff, first 15 mins brilliant, then those misses and we seemed to loose the plot.

I feared after their first goal, that it might be a 4 plus goal score to them as revenge, at least thats a plus, because they could of done that with ease.

Let's put this behind us and try and get 3 points with our next match!

By Bristol Saddler (217.161.104.2) on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 11:30 pm: Edit

Same old, same old, same old, same old story! Same old Saddlers! Same old conclusions!

We were good for the first 15 minutes, had two gilt edged chances and could/should have been 2 nil up and game on! CL's tactics of playing Birch and Leitao wide to split their centre halves worked for the first quarter of an hour! But as usual we didn't take our chances and as usual the opposition manger changed it tactically/worked us out and then we struggled!

Think you are being slightly harsh Sheff on the giving the ball away, yes we gave the ball away a bit too much, but in the first half we passed it round well and held it well until we got in the final third of the pitch! Although agree with your point on pace!

Again I have to criticise CL's in match management! I think he got it right pre-match but when changes of formation or personnel were needed, there didn't seem to be anything from him as usual. I am a fan of CL, but I do think he isn't a great in-match manager! However, I suppose with the exception of Emblem, we had nothing on the bench anyway, so its difficult! At least Fryatt would give us some sort of attacking option!

Again Bazeley was exposed when put up against a pacey or quality winger, as he has been so many times this season (Tonge/Etherington/Dyer etc...)! He gave the ball away had a good 8/10 yards on Dyer and look what happened! Its actually getting embarassing!

Wrack missed a hatful, how many chances did he actually have? Birch needs a rest! Jorge worked his little Portugese socks off, but so many times he is the provider and not in the mixer! Samways did his usual job, thought Osborn was okay, Wrack not great and Merson faded! Roper and Ritchie fairly solid!

We are a right back, midfield player and a striker short and unfortunatley there is more chance of Swifty being top scorer than us signing these players!

Things look dodgy if Rithcie is injured for a while and with Jorge/Walker to be suspended! Also Roper and Ritchie are only a caution away from a suspension!

However, we are 5 wins form the 50 point target and lets just hope one of those comes against Coventry! Lets also not get to downhearted either we were beaten by a side, who are second in the league, down from the Premiership and who have just spent a million quid on a striker!

By beechdale_saddler (62.31.216.201) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 12:43 am: Edit

I dont think we played that bad really.
Walker- Made good saves pity he was caught in no mans land for the cross.
Bazeley- usless crossing, useless tackler.
Ritchie & Ropes- Solid AGAIN!
Vincent- Shouldnt have stook his leg out because the free kick was going well wide.
Osborn- Was he playing?
Wrack- USELESS!
Samways- Can he pass a ball forwards?
Merson- Ive never saw him run about so much in a saddlers shirt.
Jorge- Never stopped running
Birch- Never stopped giving the ball away.

Bonser if you want us too move forwards(unlike vinnys passing) we need a right back and a striker!

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.34.9) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 12:45 am: Edit

I thought it was Samways that defelected the free kick.....

By coxanddrummie (195.93.34.9) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 12:50 am: Edit

Osborn was ok! what game were you watching, he was pathetic. He can't tackle, can't run, can't pass. Mind you he can hardly play with any confidence can he with that load of rubbish behind him in Bazeley.

Darren Bazeley should never play a first team game again, in fact he should just give the game up and become a fat pub landlord, he plays like one. Did he not think when albion bought on a young black skinny winger that the man might posess a bit of pace. Mind you he had a 10 yard head start on him and he still got skinned.

As for the Vincent, he looks a competent defender but does he have a phobia about going past the halfway line, we simply had nothing on the flanks.

Albion were there for the taking and ok we created chances that my mom could have put away but we bottled it second half. The amount of space we gave them was just unbeleivable.

This team has a complete lack of pace and seem totally incapable of producing any kind of counter attack. The players seemed to start briskly but faded into thier triangle routine orchestrated by Samways who rarely passes in an opposition half.

Lee has slowly turned us into a team of unfit has beens, overpaid and underperforming the lot of em. He simply has nowhere to go with this lot, they will get him the sack and only then can we clear em out and start looking at some youthful replacements who will give us not only a fresh impetus but a brighter future.

By brian caswell (194.6.9.129) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 01:09 am: Edit

Well if you thought we were bad tonight , all i can say is that we were 100% better than at millwall.

We looked class in possession at times, mostly thanks to Merson waking up at last.

Painfully obvious that the ball doesnt "stick " to the strikers enough , Birch badly needs a few games rest / just isnt good enough and that Bazeley has lost it.

But have spoke to some Baggies mates who were inpressed with us , and if Wrack wasnt such a wuss/ Birch had some class it could have been different .

Considering the amount their squad cost and ours , I am proud to be a Saddler tonight , as opposed to ASHAMED last Saturday night .

Watched with my brother in law who thought we looked like top of the table team first half rather than them.

Difference = 1 million pounds = Horsfield compared to Birch

THERES ONLY ONE KENNY MOWER

By Fish (81.132.240.245) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 01:36 am: Edit

I thought that we had a good first half, some of the passing and movement was first class, and it's true we could have sown things up by then.

I thought though that we faded badly in the second, ran out of movement, ideas and saw the fowards go deeper and deeper and spending a lot of time in defence.

Shame really, Baggies were there for the taking, but we let them off the hook and just like Millwall they win at home for the first time in ages.

As said before, no pace, no guile or inventiveness in the second half...the one and only time anyone ran at the Albion was when Wrack flashed one just wide to wards the end of he game.

Usual inertia from Mr Lee again, one sub forced on him and a very (too) late comedy substitution putting Zigor on in a wide -left position. We desperately needed to change things, I would like to see Oakes - just for a few minutes - before he leaves in the summer (you never know...he may have been able to make something happen)

My MoM was probably between Ritchie and Ropes. I have to agree that I thought that Wrackie, Osborne and Bazeley were well off the pace.

By loyal saddler (81.131.197.179) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 02:34 am: Edit

I agree with you Brian we where 100% better than at Millwall but then again half of the fans who where there tonight wouldnt have known the difference would half of them couldnt be arsed last weekend could they. Come to think of it where was they at Cardiff too.

You look at the depth in our squad compared to Albions and the other clubs in our division and we aint performing that bad really with what we have got so lets stop moaning and get behind the team for a change. Samways has one off game so people moan he's been our most inspirational player all season so bring on Coventry and get behind the boys.

By Sum1else (81.106.181.113) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 03:21 am: Edit

why are people knocking wrack and samways? samways didn't put a foot wrong all game! most of the time he gets the ball its off roper, so how the hell he passes backwards from there i do not know! open your eyes people!

wrack worked hard all game too. he probably needs flogging for at least the first miss, but at least he was sharp enough to be in that position in the first place.

osborn was a big weak link at times with some wayward passing etc, but he too worked hard.

dont really know what to say about birch. he was very poor today, but then again, i dont think he will ever be anything more than a centre forward. i honestly see him as a sort of brett angell type of player - ie good at getting into the box and grabbing a goal. i dont think he has the talent to do the job CL is asking him to do - not that he isn't keen to do it though.

i think its time to change our style to suit our players. at the moment the whole style of the team is geared up to suit one player. pretty as it is, it aint good enough.

ps - is there any truth in the rumour that ritchie continued to play with a triple compound fracture to his leg? it wouldn't surprise me!!! lol

By LarryHaggler (81.134.43.29) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 05:27 am: Edit

Basically the need for a striker was obvious tonight. Birch was ••••, he really would make a 3rd div striker, wot a lack of pace we have throughout the side. The 2 darrens (Bazely & Wrack) were poor. Wrack has reverted into his old 'always lets you down mode' & should of had a hatrick and Baze is finished - Mr backing off, why doesnt he learn, Im very upset.
Hope you are CL & JB

By LarryHaggler (81.134.43.29) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 05:32 am: Edit

Oh, Ritchie MOM as Ropes was very ropey the 1st half, and looking again Mr J Walker could of done better with the 1st goal.

By ShropshireSaddler (195.92.168.166) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 09:00 am: Edit

I can't believe that anyone can defend Wrack. He was the difference between the sides. He missed one absolute sitter, had a later vollied chance that he should have done much better with and missed another excellent chance at the death. And to say he worked hard - he didn't touch the ball for the first 25 minutes of the 2nd half - even worse, he hid every time we have the ball. He is a disgrace.
On the other hand, Bazeley is having an awful season and was at fault again last night but he does give 100% and doesn't hide so to start slating him is unfair.

By ShropshireSaddler (195.92.168.166) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 09:07 am: Edit

In summary
Walker - might have done better for the 1st goal, no chance with the 2nd, some good saves early on
Bazeley - badly exposed for the 2nd goal and some other bizarre defending but, as noted above, does give 100%
Vincent - got better and better as the game went on
Roper - I thought he had a 'mare. Should have been a penalty and should have given another goal away with a poor pass to Horsfield
Ritchie - immense, brave, solid, superb
Wrack - worst player on the pitch, the difference between us winning and losing
Osborn - worked hard but not one of his better games
Samways - our best player, his "backward" passing is because a) he trys to calm the game down when we're on the back foot b) the likes of Wrack and Birch and hiding so he can;t pass to them so his forward options are limited
Birch - a kid who needs a rest. One excellent chance missed but, as the TV said, he was put off by a foot in his face - didn;t that used to be a foul? Wouldn;t that be a penalty to us?
Leitao - worked so hard but contributed little going forward
Emblem - looked solid and composed
Aranalde - we're 2-0 down with 10mins to go, what shall we do? I know, let's take off a midfielder and bring on a defender!

By ShropshireSaddler (195.92.168.166) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 09:09 am: Edit

One final thought - at 1-0, we were still in with a chance. So Albion decided to bring on their promising young, raw, untried, pacy substitute who promptly set up the clinching goal. Now let me see, where is our promising, raw, untried, pacy potential substitute - I remember, he's at Carlisle!

By bournemouthsaddler (80.3.164.4) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 09:45 am: Edit

the big diference between the teams was the'Horse'. He always does well against us.Birch should buy the video and learn. He would not have ducked out of that header, which should have been an indirect free kick for dangerous play.

By K J C (195.188.152.14) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 12:01 pm: Edit

I think that we made a good account of ourselves.

Of course i'm disapointed but I would be more aggreived if we'd got pi$$ed on and didnt show what the saddlers were capable of.

On our resourses, to compete with the second placed team in the table the way that we did for the majority of the match just shows how far we have come in recent years.

I dont think that some of the posters above were watching the same game as me as some of the criticisms are abit harsh to say the least.

My valuation:
Jimmy - solid as usual, couldnt do anything about the 1st goal as his momentum was taking him away from the deflection.
Bazeley - had a mare, too much backing off, when he did attempt a tackle he miss timed it so much that theplayer was already past him.
Ropes - clumsy at times but overall, very solid. Thats ropes for you.
Ritchie - My M.O.T.M, works very hard and has a great attitude towards the game.
Vincent - solid enough but gave the ball away a little too much IMO, needs to be more positive at times.
Osborn - never stopped working, I agree that he gives the ball away a little but overall i think he's an asset to the team.
Samways - best signing the club has made in recent years, he rarely gives the ball away and is very visionary in his passing. I cannot understand some of the posters above, but they're entitled to thie opinion i suppose.
Wrack - a story of missed chances, if he'd have put them away, we'd all be saying what a great game he had!!
Merson - good first 30mins but went missing after that.
Birch - not sure that he is good enough to do it at this level on a consistant basis, may prove me wrong long term and I hope he does, but at the mo I'm not impressed.
Jorge - if only he had more pace!!!!

I agree with the poster above who said that we need more youth , pace etc... that was evident second half last nite. I hope that when we have reached a comfortable points target that some of our youngsters might be given a chance to prove themselves

By Jorge14 (195.93.34.9) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 12:58 pm: Edit

Loyal, the problem is that there may be only about 250 loyal supporters who go to every away game (such as myself). However, whenever we have a big away following and the opportunity to impress those fans enough to follow us away, the performance lets everyone down, not least Lee and the players himself.

How can anyone say that Fryatt should have played last night? Can you imagine him against Darren Moore? He'd get literaly smashed out of the game...

For the first 15 minutes, Albion were scared to death of Merson, Samways, Osborn and Jorge (the players which made the difference in August)...my dad was sitting in the Albion end, and he said that every time one of those (Merson in particular) touched the ball in the first 15 minutes, the Albion fans were scared to death, as were the players.

However, our passing goes no where...too often Merson, who every good move came through, goes into a hole and stays there. I didn't see Jorge do anything of note but run, and running isn't good enough if a) he's not getting service, and b) he's not in the right positions when balls come in. Samways had his worst game in a Walsall shirt last night in the fact that he didn't play one forward pass all night, and the fact that Osborn was our most forward thinking Midfielder (not including Merson) says it all.

Even Wacka didn't have a good game last night. His kicking in particular was poor compared to his usual high standards. Roper and Ritchie were solid, apart from Ropes getting a little too excited in the first hald when Horsfield should have scored.

I could go on forever about Bazeley, which is the reason I didn't post last night. If I had I would still be typing about him. He was embarrassing last night, and if he can keep his place for the Coventry game, then Colin Lee should be checked into a clinic. How anyone can keep there place after last night would be beyond belief. He didn't win one tackle, had no idea who to cover when Robinson over-lapped on the left, despite Osborn marking Koumas. That was the worst performance by a Walsall player since Carlos Andre's performance at Albion last time.

Birch has gone back to his same old poor standards. He has no pace, can't finish, and has absolutely no bottle. He is scared to go into headers, tackles or to shoot from the edge of the area. Birch is scared to death of getting hurt, and in our situation, we have no room for a player like Birch, however, I wonder whether, aged 17, Fryatt is the solution THIS season. Next season I think he'll play regualarly.

Wrack should have had a hatrick last night. How he didn't score his first I'll never know. He even had time to trap the ball and blast it home if he'd have wanted to.

As everyone knows, I'm a big fan of Colin Lee...but why he went to a flat 4-5-1 in the second half and brought on Zigor "Becks" Arandalde in a bid to attack the game I will never know. Patience from the fans (not just the anti-Lee brigade) is starting wear thin, I fear.

At least it was better than our last visit to the Hawthorns...now that was embarrassing...

By Manchester Saddler (213.106.179.33) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 01:11 pm: Edit

That young pacey subsitute of theirs had a loan spell at Kidderminster to get some first team experience. That's what's beng done with Fryatt. I hope, after watching last night's game, that CL will give him a chance as soon as the loan spell is over. It is clear where are main weakness is. Imagine how good we would be if we had someone like Horsefield up front?

By Geordiesaddler (195.92.67.67) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 01:26 pm: Edit

The bottom line is if we don't score goals we wont win games. They have the resources to go out and buy a 1m striker and we don't, that's the difference. We have to rely on the likes of Wrack and Birch taking simple chances - which they didn't, had they done so we would have won the game easilly with the way Albion's confidence was at the start, and the anxiety of the crowd. Imagine if we had been 2 up inside 7 minutes? they would have fallen apart like in August. 3 clear chances created before they scored none taken, end of story. As for the passing, I have to disagree, the two early chances were created by good forward passing, but the whole mentality of the game changes when you create and miss easy chances.

By David Potter (67.64.184.88) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 05:27 pm: Edit

Interesting, reading the posts above. A lot of what's been said, I agree with.

I don't know what has happened to Bazeley, he's miles away from the player he was last year.He seems almost afraid to be on the pitch! He's done very poorly against pacey wingers this season.

Last night, was really the story of our season. we failed to take our chances, we've nothing up front to frighten defenders with (pace, height and strength). There's not enough fight in the side, we tend to give up when we're behind and we run out of ideas.
One of our biggest problems is that we have too many players who are simply not good enough at this level!! Bazeley, Wrack, Aranalde, Mathias, Birch and Lawrence, just to name a few. Everyone at the club, from the owner, to the fans, wants this club to progress. As long as the above mentioned players are still on the books, we're not going to!

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.34.9) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 05:47 pm: Edit

I agree with Bazeley(on this seasons form), Aranalde, Matias, Birch and Lawrence. I would keep Wrack though to be honest, with a smaill squad that we have we need players that can play in a variety of positions.

By Stu (195.92.67.77) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 07:33 pm: Edit

Bloody hell, reading this you'd think we lost 6-0, didn't have a single shot and were lucky not to lose 10.

I saw a side that showed exactly why they are a mid-table side, a side who can be very good and luck good, but when push comes to shove didn't take their chances.

If either of those had gone in, and we'd gone 1 up within 10 minutes then it'd have been a different match. Albion fans would have got edgy, players felt pressure and we'd have stepped up in confidence.

Overall, I thought it was an okay performance considering your playing away from home at 2nd place who had lost only 1 match in their last 12.

The one thing that was clear was our lack of options. As I keep saying, we are very one dimensional. Albion also play the same way, with two hard working strikers, but they had options on the bench to change their style and make an impact, eg Llyod Dyer.

It doesn't neccessarily have to be a striker we're after, a winger will do (in fact, that Llyod Dyer would be the type of player). Anyone with pace who can offer a different option, whether it be up front or down the flank.

Many positives I thought and we were not outclassed. Hope it doesn't hit our confidence too much as next Saturday's match vs Coventry is very important if we're too keep in touch with that clutch of mid table teams.

PS: Shows what a decent run of form can do, 5 wins in 6 matches for Stoke and they've gone from 21st to 13th! If we did that it'd put us within a win of the Play Offs in my view.

By coxanddrummie (195.93.34.9) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 07:35 pm: Edit

Has anyone had the chance to read the Walsall player ratings in todays Express and Star. Blimey did i have a laugh. Here are a few snippets of them and they simply astound me.

Bazeley: Performed well both defensively and going forward. Linked well with Osborn.

Vincent: Always willing to get forward.

Osborn: Played a full part in Walsall's most impressive spells.

Wrack: He produced a fine performance, his best in a while.

It didn't say the name of the person who wrote such drivel but whoever you are you should hang your head in shame.
I can only assume that the players are writing there own ratings or perhaps it was a combined effort by Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles.

By Surrey Saddler (195.93.34.9) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 07:40 pm: Edit

Lots of harsh criticism on here. I saw the game on TV and compared with the display at Millwall last week we were world class. In the first half we played some superb stuff-fellow Surreyites in the pub were genuinely impressed and for once there were no snide remarks about "litle Walsall". OK so Wracky and Birch missed chances but chances like this are missed every week at every level- look at the TV tonight and you will see many more. We also put some superb passing movements together- much better than for yonks.
The problems of course are that we did not make enough chances- they did (and missed a good few as well)and so they won. Having said that,goal one was a lucky deflection and well goal two should never have happened for reasons outlined at length in other posts.
And why all this criticism for Wracky? If there is one player who runs his socks off every week for the cause and must surely be one of our most reliable players it is him.
So lets not be too despondent. Its Coventry next week. All being well I shall be there and I am looking forward to it and 3 points

By wfc2uk (213.48.83.157) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 07:43 pm: Edit

I saw Vinnys played his last game. Shame really. if the bloke knew he was leaving why did he walk straight off the pitch last night before giving one final salute. Vinny we supported you and you leave like this. Ive got a salute for ya and its with my two fingers!

By Stu (195.92.67.77) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 08:47 pm: Edit

That's a bit bleedin harsh...

From what the article on the E&S says, its nowhere near sorted. When you consider how long it takes to tie up a deal, transfer registrations and get international clearance (which would be required I presume), then I can't see any possibility of him completing the deal before the Coventry match.

So I guess Saturday would be his swansong.

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.34.9) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 09:20 pm: Edit

Stu - We do need a striker as first priority in my opinion. Birch is never going to score a lot of goals, Leitao has lost the pace he had and Merson should not be up there in the first place.
We honestly do need a striker. Someone who can put a bit of pace into the team, someone who can score goals.
Someone really like Peschisolido, did you see the bloke tonight! He was like a man possesed.
Talking about Sheffield United, havent they just signed a striker from Gillingham, or about to? They have Allison, Pescisolido, Ward, Kabba, Pakinson and this new bloke from Gillingham. Surely we could loan one of them! I would take any of them to be honest!

By Ludlow Dave (81.77.206.217) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 10:00 pm: Edit

Samways has been great for us. Ok it aint worked out, but thats no reason to make those comments - wfc2uk. I, for one thank him for his services and the effort hes put in both last season and this.
As for last night - I can only echo whats been said - good effort in the main, spurned chances, little luck ( except penalty of course ), sounds familiar dont it!!
I have the pleasure of working with a number of Albion fans. They tell me, thats their BEST performance of the season! I for one am thankfull that when I was five, me brother brought me a Walsall top, rather than a Baggies one. Because if thats their best - what •••• do they endure most weeks!!

By Geoff Whiting (195.92.168.177) on Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 11:16 pm: Edit

Absolutely agree Ludlow Dave, Vinny has been briliant and if he goes he should go with our deep gratitude. But for him, I doubt if we'd still be in this division. So any talk about a two fingered salute is well out of order IMHO.

Also in the E&S tonight I see Megson is describing last night as Albion's best performance of the season, similar to your mates opinions LD. Should have been game virtually over in 15 minutes but they survived thanks to our inept finishing. Although they got on top later, I was rarely impressed by them - I tipped them for auto-promotion at the start of the season - but on this evidence they'd be hard pressed to stay in the top six.

There again, a number of sides this season have come out of a bad patch by beating us and then immediately going on a winning run - I recall Ipswich particularly - so maybe this was the start of a run for the Albion, but if so, for me it was less than impressive stuff.

By Stu (195.92.67.76) on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 01:38 am: Edit

Sheff, not saying that we don't need a striker... Just that if it was a winger then it wouldn't hurt either. In all fairness, we can't blame last nights result on not having a striker, as the best two chances were both missed by Wrack.

But, what I will say is that I don't think we create enough chances to start with. All strikers miss chances, we must admit that. All strikers miss sitters, all strikers miss point blank headers.

But, in my view our strikers don't get enough chances to start with. Thus, they have this huge expectation to take every chance that comes their way, their is not a striker in the world who takes every chance. If we could give our strikers 4, 5 or 6 chances between them every match, then we might give them more of a chance. As it is, they get 1 or 2 and have so much pressure on them to score it.

So, we have to look at ways to create more as well as take what we do create. One way to create more is to have a different option, thus my desperate plea for a winger who apart from creating can also provide a bit of variation to our one dimensional current style.

After all, to find a striker who will score 16-20 despite getting 1, maybe 2 at best, chances per match on a free or loan is going to be bloody impossible. As they're already taken and playing.

By Geoff Whiting (195.92.168.166) on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 02:51 am: Edit

After watching the highlights tonight and seeing Michael Owen hit the bar from, at the most, 2-3 yards out, I have to say you're right Stu, even players of his calibre can miss when it's easier to score.

How we find a goalscorer I just do not know, no way do Jorge and Birch even remotely look to be the answer, and the touch has completely deserted Wracky on last night's showing. If any of these three had been sharp last night we would surely have had the game virtually won by the time we reached the 15 minute mark !

How well I recall that night when Alan Buckley made his debut and scored three unbelievable goals - he almost became a God overnight.

If only we could find another Alan Buckley, what would we give for that ? Pipe dreams I know, but you can't help dreaming ......... !

By Nigel (213.48.83.33) on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 09:29 am: Edit

Bazeleys lack of form comes as no surprise to me, I think any of us would be low on confidence if we were constantly barracked and told we were useless by a section of the crowd. You did it to Martin Butler and Kevin Wilson who received the same treatment, being booed when the team came out to warm up, booed when the teams are announced, booed when they touch the ball and thats before he reads this web-site. It must be a real boost for him. Well done!

By Walsall Supporter (82.37.192.152) on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 10:26 am: Edit

I am sure the last thing a player would do is read any Walsall Boards if he knows he has had a bad game, he would see enough written about it in the papers (Except the E & S who see games through Blinkers sometimes)

Its very hard to encourage anyone if they are playing bad, at the end of the day we have paid good money to see a decent match, but I disagree with booing and slagging off a player.

As my Nan used to say, if you can't think of anything nice to say, dont say anything at all.

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.34.9) on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 03:09 pm: Edit

We havent had a decent winger for years at Bescot. Even in the Graydon years we didnt have one, so thats around 6 seasons now. I find this incredible. In fact wasnt the last decent winger we had, Peron?
I would say we need both a winger and a decent striker. In fact a left and right winger wouldnt go amiss! We can always dream I suppose.

By Dr David Kelly (82.37.91.211) on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 03:40 pm: Edit

Gareth Ainsworth and Junior would launch us to a top 6 spot. I can feel another defender coming.

By Jorge14 (195.93.34.9) on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 03:56 pm: Edit

Sheff, I've said that for a long time, we haven't had one winger who can beat a man consistently since Hodgey (remember his performance against Luton in 96-97? My first league game and still, bar Peron, Boli and Merson, the best performance in a Walsall shirt I've ever seen) and Jeff Peron left under Graydon. We can but dream that one will come along now...but who knows?!

We need a Junior, if we had of had a player like Junior on Friday night we would have been 3 up in 15 minutes, game over, and we'd be on our way to Cardiff. Well, maybe the last bit is a bit optimistic, but we'd be in sn EVEN healthier state than we are now at 14th in the league.

I don't know how anyone can have a go at Vinny. He is leaving a prosperous business, a near guarenteed place in the Primera Liga and his family in Spain whilst he has played for us for nearly a year. Having 5 hours of flights every single week can't be easy, and I think he deserves more respect that wfc2uk has given him. It's because of his performances in midfield with Robinson and O'Connor last season that we stayed up so ultimately easily, and again this season he has linked brilliantly with Corica, Merson, Osborn and Wrack to produce, at times, some out of this world football. He's one of the technically best players in Walsall's history, and considering he has only played for the club for 11 months, that's a hell of a compliment.

Good luck Vinny whether you decide to stay or go, you deserve the gratitude of every single Saddler.

By Neil Ravenscroft (82.37.184.218) on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 04:26 pm: Edit

Hear, bloody hear.

By popperpancake (81.79.125.2) on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 08:48 pm: Edit

I'm surprised at all the criticism of the performance top be honest. I thought we gave a decent account of ourselves. WBA are certainly one of the best 3 sides in this division (i actually think they'll go up automatically). Lay off Wrack and Osborn too, i'm bemused by a lot of the comments re this match. 9/10 Wrack would have scored, it's unfortunate that it happened in this game. Bazeley has gone nuts this season... dunno what's going on. I thought it was far better than the majority of our away performances this year. Balls.

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.34.9) on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 09:26 pm: Edit

I think Osborn is a player Walsall fans love to hate. He has no chance of winning the doubters over.
I like him because he is a rock that is hardly ever noticed. He is the one that feeds the midfielders who can pass the ball better.
He is the one that breaks up attacks.
He is the one that hussles when the opponents have possession.
I think he is a great asset to the team and wouldnt swop him for anyone that is currently in the squad.

By Dave Roe (81.131.7.93) on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 09:38 pm: Edit

Well the second half was one for the purists to savour. Lots of little passes and pretty triangles, lovely to watch, except for one thing....THEY DIDN'T GET US ANYWHERE. I also can appreciate the slower, passing game but if it ultimately doesn't lead to anything then it's useless, you might as well just give the ball to the opposition.

Yet again Lee starts the game with a plan in mind and is totally unable to alter the plans when things start going wrong. Even his staunchest supporters must admit that his in-match management leaves a lot to be desired !?

Once we (finally) amble our way into the final third of the pitch any inventiveness disappears. We haven't got a clue on how to play the final ball.

By Realist Saddler (195.93.34.9) on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 11:01 pm: Edit

Jorge 14 - How can you say that John Hodge "consistently beat defenders"? He had one good game in 10. He was in Division Two and wouldnt even, at a peak, get anywhere near todays squad. Think before you write - if it was 1996 then surely you were 8? And you remember him clearly beating opposition defenders on a consistent basis? I dont remember a thing when I was 8 (although it was 21 years ago)

Just a point.

By Dave Roe (81.131.97.210) on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 11:19 pm: Edit

No disrespect Jorge, your posts are very often well written and well thought out, but I think your age at the time you were watching Hodge has clouded your judgement. As Realist Saddler rightly points out Hodgey was (like many wingers) very inconsistent. One game he would be awesome, the next 9 he would be average at best.

If rumours are to be believed the only thing Hodge was interested in after each game was how many of the scouts in attendance were showing an interest in him.

By coxanddrummie (195.93.34.9) on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 11:25 pm: Edit

I totally agree with you Mr Roe on Lee's inability to change things during a game. I also feel he is obsessed with having his teams play total football.

He has to instill a beleif in his players and give them confidence to make their own decisions on how to play at any given time in a match. If there is a need to hit it long then do it, they have to be able to mix it about and not become to predictable to the opposition.

So many times i have seen us pass our way into a decent position but as soon as it gets to the last third there is no spark, an inability to make intelligent running off the ball. To do this A) you need that bit of pace from someone which we don't have and B) you need strikers that are able to hold the ball up in order to get midfielders to make runs beyond them, again something that we seem unable to do.

It's all very well playing nice pretty football but at some point you have to get behind teams and get teams turning the other way instead of just showing them our triangle routine.

By Stu (195.92.67.68) on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 11:26 pm: Edit

Jorge14, Sheff, are we forgetting a certain Darren Wrack...

In his first season under Graydon he made beating 2 men and crossing for Rambo look like it came natural to him. Don't know what happened to that bloke, but I won't complain as Wracky has become a useful player in other areas.

If we get a striker, then its got to be a really good striker who can live on 1 or 2 chances per match. As you say, ideally its a winger and a striker.

By Stu (13.16.137.11) on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 09:54 am: Edit

C&D, completely agree with that. I've said for quite a while that we are very one dimensional, and that we are crying out for that bit of pace so we can use a more direct style of play. Which we did do when we had Darren Byfield. So I don't think its a case of Lee's reluctance to do it, but rather Lee not having the options to do it.

Which is where I agree Lee was at fault. He obviously went for a lot of pacy and powerful strikers over the summer (Akinbiyi, Noel Williams, Bothroyd, Mellor and Asaba) but for whatever reason, when they failed he spent the cash on different positions which was where the mistake was in my view.

By Bristol Saddler (217.161.104.2) on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 10:50 am: Edit

Lee had a difficult summer! Firstly, Zdrillic and Junior p*ssed off! He then cleared out some dead wood and signed Oakes and Osborn! Then Samways changes his mind and decides to play for us (due largly in part to CL's persuasion and accommodating stance), whats Lee gonna do turn him down! Then the Merson opportunity presents itself and whats Lee supposed to do turn him down! Then Carbon drops him well in the sh*t at the back and he gets the opportunity to sign Ritchie, whats he supposed to do turn him down!

The point is I imagine that Merse, Vinny and Ritchie are our highest paid players, leaving us no cash for a quality striker and CL in my view pulled a master stroke in signing all three! Okay Pompey helped out with Merse and he lives in Sutton Coldfield, but he could have gone to the Baggies or anywhere else in the Midlands!

Ask yourself what would you do, with players with the quality of Merse/Samways and Ritchie banging on your door! You'd sign them of course!

Can't believe people slag off CL's transfer market dealing! The only signing he has made this season that hasn't worked is Oakes and god knows why that is the case! Osborn is better than people think and even Kerr looked a good signing until he got injured! CL has spent no money and got in three of the best players ever to pull on a red shirt!

Even his loan signings have been good, with the exception of Burton and you can't include that Denning bloke from Wigan, cos he was swapped with Lawrence for a month, (which is always good).

Of course CL wants two full backs, a winger, a midfielder and two strikers, but the facts are he aint gonna get them! You only have to listen to the pundits on SKY on Friday, to hear what respect people have for CL, the job he's done and our league position etc... etc....

I think CL is a good manager and my only real criticism is his 'in-match management' and apathy regards changing formations/substitutions and I agree that we are one dimensional!

As for Fryatt! Valid points made that he would have been battered in the match and who knows Lee my plan to start him when he comes back from Carlisle! We just don't know! But my view on Fryatt is that he should be on the bench and used for the last 15/20, not a starter, as he is nit yet our Messiah & although he's played well at Carlisle, he hasn't scored hatfulls! His time will come but it may not be yet!

Do think CL should risk a few youngsters on the bench as there is little to lose by doing so!

Who knows what will happen with Hay gone and Vinny about to do the same! There will be cash to spend in this transfer window and hopefully we can have a clear out and add pace and quality in the summer!

Bazeley, Aranalde, Matias, Oakes, Carbon and Corica can all go for me! But only if we can get replacements!

Emblem in for Birch on Saturday and we'll get three points!

KEEP THE FAITH!

By Stu (13.16.137.11) on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 11:23 am: Edit

I'm not criticising him, just saying in hindsight mistakes were made. Its always easier with hindsight, but its still the case.

As for Oakes, even when Samways, Osborn, Merson, Wrack have been missing, he hasn't been near. So I'd just like Lee to say he made a mistake as far as that goes.

I wouldn't get rid of Corica though, I think he has had quite a good season to be honest.

By Realist Saddler (212.137.30.138) on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 01:21 pm: Edit

I think there's a bit too much criticism aimed at the players and manager here. We played very well first half on Friday, created three excellent chances which should have been taken but the players involved shouldn't be crucified.

Our top scorer (Wrack) missed a sitter yes but the abuse he has got on here is very harsh. Liverpool's top scorer (Owen) missed an even easier chance on Saturday but it's just one of those things.

We're all too quick to jump on the backs of players (and manager). We are very likely to finish higher than we have EVER done before, we have the best group of players in our history and are a simple goalscorer away from being a Top 10 side. Let's keep things in context a little here and realise that we are in a FAR better position (both positioned in the league and in a financial status) than the likes of Forest and Sheffield Wednesday (both of whom 10 years ago were in Wembley Cup Finals whilst we were getting excited about beating Chesterfield to promotion from Division Three).

We're not playing great and the manager is not perfect but we've got a good little footballing side here and are simply lacking a goalscorer and possibly a full-back. Sky commentary thought we were "magnificent" first half on Friday but you'd have thought we'd just been trounced 8-0 judging by some of the above.

I'll be a regular poster on here now. Hope my thoughts are appreciated and not gunned down by the anti-Lee brigade.

By Mal (164.143.244.34) on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 02:28 pm: Edit

Had to post on this thread, having watched the game in a pub in the heart of Blue Nose territory I was PROUD to be a Saddler. The Albion fans around me were making statements like 'I wish we played football like the Saddlers!'.

A typical game of what might have been for me, we rode our luck a little but were by far the better side in footballing terms. I counted one passage of play where we passed the ball somthing like 30 times without an Albion player getting a sniff.

As stated above the difference is what we have known all season, a goalscorer and pace but in perspective Div 1 is all but assured. Put it this way I am glad I pay my money to watch a team playing football and not the dire crap served up by WBA, best game of the season, God help there fans

By Dave Roe (217.37.14.235) on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 02:53 pm: Edit

Yeah, there were 30 passes without an Albion player getting a sniff...including Hoult !

By popperpancake (81.134.150.11) on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 03:03 pm: Edit

I'm with Realist Saddler on this one.

By ShropshireSaddler (195.92.168.167) on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 03:18 pm: Edit

I can't understand why people defend Wrack and yet have a go at Bazeley. Wrack is a potentially very talented player who lacks the bottle to make the most of his ability. His misses at the Albion were all due to a lack of bottle in those situations.He was like a startled rabbit looking into the headlights. We have a joke where we sit that when Wrack scores a goal it's often because he can't find anyone else to pass responsibility to! And yet he COULD be such a good player. Whereas Bazeley is giving 100% even though he is having an awful season and getting alot of abuse.
Someone in this thread said we should never abuse ourown players. I disagree. If a player gives 100% but has a poor game, we should NEVER have a go at him eg Bazeley, Roper. But if a player gives less than 100%, then he's fair game eg Lawrence everytime he plays, Wrack when he doesn't shows the balls needed in a big game.

By popperpancake (81.134.150.11) on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 04:30 pm: Edit

It was nothing to do with balls or bottle. He just missed it. It was a •••• up. End of story. He scores a fair few goals wrack does, and always gives 100%. Bottle, my arse. In fact i'm gonna go as far as to say the above post is full of the most •••• i've seen on here for a while (excluding the wind up posts). Or is the above post a wind up?

By ShropshireSaddler (195.92.168.174) on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 04:36 pm: Edit

No it's not a wind up. I find it amazing that people don't see it. Wrack lacks bottle - it's so obvious. Watch him when we have the ball. He hides behind opposition players then puts his hand in the air to say he wants the ball! Watch the goals he scores (and I agree he is capable of scoring 15 goals a season), the best ones are always when he has NO CHOICE but to take the ball. Otherwise, whenever he can, he gets rid of the ball first touch. He also does plenty of running and chasing without ever putting decent tackle in. Don't get me wrong, Popper,I think Wrack has the potential to be an excellent player. If he were to give 50% of the commitment to a match of some of the other players( Ritchie, Roper, Samways, Bazeley)he would be dangerous. Until then it's a story of easy missed chances and **** ups as you call them.

By ShropshireSaddler (195.92.168.174) on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 04:41 pm: Edit

By the way, this is not a response to the Albion match alone. Wrack has long been top of my list for criticism. Probably because he DOES have the potential. As noted above, I really try to avoid criticising anyone who gives 100% no matter how badly they play but I dislike players who aren't giving their all, players who hide, players who pull out of tackles, players who throw themselves to the ground faced with a 2 yard tap-in! Wrack isn't the only one. There is at least one "star" in the team who does it week after week who wouldn't be in my team either.

By freda (195.93.34.9) on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 04:56 pm: Edit

Just an aside to the above,did I imagine it,or did some Sky reporter state that Merse desperately wanted to join the Baggage,but Megson gave him the knockback,so he come here.

By Realist Saddler (212.137.30.138) on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 05:08 pm: Edit

How can people say that Wrack is a bottler and doesnt get into good positions but would rather hide behind opposition defenders? Wrack is the only one of our midfielders BAR NONE that makes runs past our forwards and beyond opposition defenders? He had the chance on Friday because he ran off the ball, starting 50 yards out, losing his midfielder marker into an open space two yards from goal. Okay he missed but I'd fancy him next time. He's our only genuine goal threat from midfield and leading scorer in the league. I'm not saying he's brilliant but he doesn't hide.

Bazeley is probably our weak-spot nowadays especially when we play a 4-3-1-2 formation and there is no cover on the right side of midfield.

By coxanddrummie (195.93.34.9) on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 05:16 pm: Edit

I wouldn't go as far as to say Wrack lacks bottle, after all if he did he wouldn't have been surging forward to miss that chance against Albion.

What i do think is that he lacks an inner beleif in his own ability. Technically Wrack is a good player. He has two good feet, he can play in a number of positions well and barring his latest miss he is generally a good finisher.

Unfortunately he is like many players who rely too heavily on confidence. We seem to have a lot of players who have the same problem. It's the managers job to instill beleif in his players.

It would also help if we had a few fist clenchers in the team in the O Connor mould. Someone who can have an influence when things are not going well and pick players heads up when they are down.

Its an old saying but very true, you have to outbattle teams to be given the right to play your own game. This is one of our key problems and our inability to fight back from a losing position proves it is.

By Jorge14 (195.93.34.9) on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 06:39 pm: Edit

Fair point Realist...my point wasn't that he was a great player, but that his performance against Luton was one of the greatest I've ever seen by a Walsall player in my first league match at Bescot.

And Stu, we probably are forgetting Wracky. To be fair, in the second half on Friday he went through the Albion midfield and defence like a hot knife through butter on one occasion, and got into position beautifully for his miss.

By Geoff Whiting (195.92.168.170) on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 06:51 pm: Edit

Must say I'm totally with Realist Saddler, Popperpancake and C&D on this one, I think Wrack works extremely hard for us. Just one example, not so long ago (Palace or Reading game maybe) I remember commenting about how one moment he was heading in from the left wing into the opposition box for a shot on the left corner of the six yard box, then just a few seconds later there's a great tackle to stop the opposition in our box, around the right back position - and who was doing the tackling - Wracky ! That does not suggest to me a player giving less than 100%.

His versatility is another reason why he's a key member of the squad for me, at one time or another he must have played nearly every position on the pitch for us and to my knowledge never lets us down even when he's asked to play out of position.

By Geordiesaddler (195.92.67.69) on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 08:13 pm: Edit

If Darren Wrack had 1) Pace and the ability to beat his man; 2) The ability to score from the majority of chances he gets - ie. 20 goals per season 3)Consistancy: he would be a) Playing for Man Utd, Chelsea or Arsenal, b) probably in the England squad, and c) be on about 30k a week. Because he has none of the above he is playing for us on about 2k a week. And you could say the same for any other player who finds himself on the Bescot wage bill year in year out.

By K J C (195.188.152.10) on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 09:16 pm: Edit

I agree with C&D

:-o

Blimey, did i just say that!?!?!

Welcome to the board 'Realist' - I agree with your thoughts too.

By Stu (195.92.67.78) on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 12:05 am: Edit

I'm going with C&D again... I don't think its bottle, just a lack of confidence in himself.

Its no surprise that he usually has runs of scoring goals, where he'll score a few over a close spell of matches. You can see he looks a different player then, always looking for goals. Other times when he hasn't scored for a while, he does look like a rabbit in the headlights of an 18 wheeler. Its about trying to convince him he is good enough.

I see no reason why Wrack shouldn't hit at least 10-12 goals every season, even at this level, as he certainly gets the chances.

By Exile (203.167.253.205) on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 12:40 am: Edit

If it's a confidence thing, then let's bring the debate back to where we were two or three months ago, where someone suggested we needed a sport psychologist much more than a striker

Cheers all,
Exile

PS - pretty much in agreement with Realist / C&D, as far as I can be from interpreting the info I have.

By Geoff Whiting (195.92.168.174) on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 01:28 am: Edit

Great image Stu, "a rabbit in the headlights of an 18 wheeler", that will stay with me for a while mate!

By Roger Rabbit (195.93.34.9) on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 10:28 am: Edit

Which road vehicle has 18 wheels?

By HKSaddler (219.76.184.200) on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 11:49 am: Edit

You'll know it when you see it Roger. In fact you won't be able to take your eyes off it.

By Moaning Saddler (194.196.24.194) on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 01:57 pm: Edit

Having watched Darren Wrack since 1998, to suggest that he "hides" in a game is the most ignorant comment I have seen in a long time.

By Ulster Saddler (212.3.176.14) on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 02:57 pm: Edit

We would have won if Wrack had scored early on. I think he was watching the ball hit the back of the net and planning his celebrations before he had actually touched it from Jorge's pass. However, I do not hate him for that.

I watched the game on Sky and although it does not appear to have been mentioned, Jason Koumas's tackle on Ritchie was a 2 foot lunge and the ONE SLOW MOTION SHOT (unusual for Sky) of the incident showed this to be the case and I am surprised more has not been made of it. I do not know how he was carried off but Ritchie got up and tried to play on. What do the rest of you think?

I think the game was predictable once we missed those early chances but I think overall , when you compare the money they have spent, and the wages they are paying, we showed that we have nothing to fear from WBA.

UP THE SADDLERS

By Neil Ravenscroft (62.172.127.2) on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 03:09 pm: Edit

It was a two footed challenge and worthy of a card. maybe even red. It's the old "Gascoigne" syndrome of not gving a card when a player is on a stretcher, as Gazza should have been sent off in that Cup Final as he was carried off and Spurs reduced to 10 men.
By the way, I also wouldn't have recinded Horsefield's yellow. It was a penalty, but he really threw himself over to make it look good, which is what fooled the ref in the first place!

By Geoff Whiting (195.92.168.172) on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 04:51 pm: Edit

Dead right Ulster, I have mentioned it myself but maybe not on this board, I can't remember.

It was a definite two footed challenge and a red card should have been given for that, the reason it wasn't is surely as Neil has just said.

It hasn't been given much coverage though, which irritates me particularly because Megson has been singing the praises of Horsefield, saying he played great against us "despite being kicked from pillar to post". Sounds like he's making out we were a dirty team, which is totally untrue. And I've never seen a game in which Horsefield hasn't given out at least as much as he's got in terms of the physical stuff. Megson's comments were well out of order for me, but then comments usually are when they come from the mouth of the moaning little ginger whinger!
So no sub should have replaced Koumas and who knows against 10 men what we might have got out of the game. We'll never know of course.

By Delves Saddler (82.37.162.58) on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 04:56 pm: Edit

I too agree with the pro-Wrack argument - a real 100%er who I would have in the team any day (spot on analyses Geordie and C&D).

I always believe that when the opportunity arises, a neutral/opposition opinion should be heard to balance the post match comments, and televised games & local derbies are a good opportunity for this.

I have spoken to a Villa fan, two West Ham fans and an Albion fan since Friday and all of them commented on how impressed they were with our 'high quality of football' in the first half and if only we had a finisher like Defoe etc. and some pace in the side, we would be contending for the top four (assuming we played like that week in week out).

I did mention that we don't play like that week in week out but they retorted that if we did have the missing pieces of the jigsaw (striker, pace), the deflatory attitude after conceding or missing chances would not happen as often as the rest of the team would have the confidence that we could and should score.

I was jealous of Albions having Lloyd Dyer!!!

By HKSaddler (219.76.184.200) on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 07:19 pm: Edit

Just up on Yahoo:

West Brom frontman Geoff Horsfield has been cleared of diving in Friday's derby against Walsall at The Hawthorns.
Horsfield's yellow card has been rescinded after referee Barry Knight admitted he got the decision wrong.

An Albion spokesman said: "The FA has confirmed that Mr Knight sent in a full report saying he initially felt Geoff had exaggerated minimal contact to try and win a penalty.

"Having reviewed the incident, he believes there was, in fact, substantial contact and that no caution should have been administered.

"The FA has therefore confirmed Geoff's caution has been rescinded."

Any comments? Who was the guilty party who took him out?

By Neil Ravenscroft (82.37.184.218) on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 07:29 pm: Edit

It was Ropes. Definate trip, but Horsfield reacted as if he'd been hit by a steamroller, which is why the ref thought he'd dived.

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.34.9) on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 08:00 pm: Edit

It was a definate penalty. Personally I didnt think Horsfield reacted all that bad to be honest, just like any forward would do.

By Fish (81.133.48.60) on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 09:08 pm: Edit

A decent Ref and an echo of last time we played the Baggies at their place when a booking was rescinded.

I suppose though that there is no chance that that wnker Beeby will review his mistaken second booking of Jorge at Millwall.

One rule for one....one for another.

By Delves Saddler (194.73.163.108

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