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West Ham Utd (h) - League - 20th December 2003

Reports and reaction from the 2003-04 season as Walsall finished 22nd (R) in Division 1
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West Ham Utd (h) - League - 20th December 2003

Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:27 pm

By Jorge14 (195.93.34.9) on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 03:13 pm: Edit

I think the least we can expect tommorrow is a point. West Ham have only 2 wins in the last 10, I think, so hopefully we can stem the flow to DeFoe from the midfield, and get at least the draw...a win is definately in reach, however. 2-2 is my tip.

I think we'll play 2 up front tommorrow and Merson in midfield. I don't think Lee will be able to get away with changing the formation after an away win, but I wouldn't be surprised if Emblem started up-front alongside Birch.

Thoughts? Predictions?

By Miller (194.203.154.206) on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 03:18 pm: Edit

I think at least a 3-0 loss, The Millers to beat Bradford filth 2-0 and get up to your 30 point total. We will then overtake you over the festive period.

Thoughts? Predictions?

By scotty (193.128.144.132) on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 03:29 pm: Edit

Miller - F**k off, have you finished school today and become bored??

The offical site is reporting that Leaito will be in contention for a starting place so my money's on Birch and Leaito with Merson behind them. Prediction - 2-1, Wrack to score first.

By Crouch End Saddler (217.33.194.194) on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 04:05 pm: Edit

Thoughts and predictions for Miller

Predictions?

Bradford v Rotherham
Two relegation threatened teams fight it out to decide which is the cackest side in Yorkshire. Rotherham win that battle by virtue of the fact that at least Bradford try to play football and not some sad excuse of a long ball game.

Rotherham to realise that no-one wants to buy them because no-one cares and are (thankfully) sent to that great retirement home for non-entity sides in the sky, becoming room mates with Newport County, on first name terms with Aldershot and best mates with Maidstone.

Thoughts?

Dont you ever get bored of watching kick and rush football?

By BLACK FLAT (194.203.67.97) on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 04:16 pm: Edit

miller no mates you bore me so get one of your hot
pork pies and stick it up your arse thank you.

i fear brian deane tomorrow but looking forwaed to the match as our best football has been against
teams that try and play football could be anyscore
but i go for 2-1 saddlers

By Delves Saddler (194.73.163.108) on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 04:54 pm: Edit

yawn, miller

As some of you know, I have some affection for the Hammers (when they aren't playing the Saddlers), and my knowledge of them worries me that tomorrow may be a narrow defeat for us.

Although, I also know that we are capable of beating them on our day, a repeat of recent performances at home (E.g. Bradford) would reult in us losing to the system and tactics the hammers use.

Having said that, I will, as per usual, predict a best-case scenario as I hate to be negative (I would incur the wrath of some posters, aswell). We will beat them 2-1 with an Albion/Forest type performance with a bit of the grit from the Reading performance thrown in!!

By Crouch End Saddler (217.33.194.194) on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 05:00 pm: Edit

Agreed Delves.
Much as I hate to say it (and will not in front of my Hammer boss) I cant see the Saddlers getting much out of the game. Would take a point, doing cartwheels with all three, unfortunately I fear I may be buying him the beer Saturday night.

By redordead (81.135.65.96) on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 05:05 pm: Edit

2-1 is the most unconvincing prediction in the world. it implies you expect your team to concede ATLEAST one goal and hope your team score more then expected once. i would go for a battling 1-0, especially if Deane has a day like he had for Leeds against us in the FA cup

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.34.9) on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 05:58 pm: Edit

Why on earth cant we get much out of the game? What basis do you use for this? That West Ham have some sort of reputation? For thats all it is.
A team that have won 2 of last 12 matches.
A team who have won 1 of last 7 away matches.
A team who cant even win away at Wimbledon, Watford, Gillingham and Coventry.
A team that has conceded goals in 6 of last 8 matches.
A team that has not scored more than 1 goal in their last 6 away matches.
WHY SHOULD THIS WORRY WALSALL FC?
The only thing that West Ham have is a REPUTATION. Nothing else. I hope the players realise what they are dealing with here.

By coxanddrummie (195.93.34.9) on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 06:22 pm: Edit

Eh it's a pity Colin Lee didn't give that kind of team talk instead of his usual " We are playing the best team of all time today lads " effort.

By Delves Saddler (82.37.162.58) on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 08:41 pm: Edit

redordead - 2-1 is based on the fact that we scored four against Forest and Albion (the other best case scenarios) but I expect West Ham's defence not to be too leaky (they have the best away defence in the division by a long way, which is why I am only expecting 2 goals from a top WFC performance against a strong defence).

Plus, West Ham have only failed to score on 6 occasions this season with a goal per away game average of exactly 1.

What is so unconvincing about that?

Sheff - For my worst case scenario, read similar. West Ham's superb goals against record in away games and their goal scoring record. Plus, I have thought about the fact that their high-tempo counter attacking football will be a problem for us to contend with.

By Fish (81.132.113.234) on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 09:44 pm: Edit

Anyone care to guess at the attendance ? 10,000 + for once ? It ought to be.

By Ludlow Dave (81.79.233.95) on Friday, December 19, 2003 - 10:41 pm: Edit

I think West Ham will view us as easy pickings tomorrow. I hope that works against them. We are usually good against so-called better teams. With a good xmas crowd, the place should be rocking, it will lift the players and I think we will win it 2-1.
Does anyone know where West Ham will be getting changed? They don't like the dressing rooms of 1st Div Clubs do they?

By scat man (80.195.139.10) on Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 07:18 pm: Edit

••••

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.34.9) on Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 08:00 pm: Edit

Well 1-1. I am less than happy as I think we dropped 2 points today. West Ham were nothing special were they? Nothing special at all. Added to that they were down to 10 men for 83 minutes! Yes definately 2 points dropped.
Second half performance good, first half useless.
Did not seem to know what to do when they went down to 10 men. It was changed in the second half, but why not right away be Lee?
I dont think anyone stood out today, but a number of players didnt thats for certain.
Main culprits in no particular order.
Merson - Once again was not at the races. I think its about time he had some time on the bench. That chance he missed in the second half was a school boy error! Why did he use the outside of his boot when he could have just smacked it! Too clever at times.
Bazeley - Another bad game. Yes another tbis season. What has happened? Has someone told him he is not alloes to tackle anymore. Some people said it was because he had no cover as Merson was on the right, but even so, he was ripped apart time and time again.
Aranalde - LOL! What a joke this guy his. First he cant defend. And second the bloke is a liability because when pushed up he cant cross to save his life. Useless. Oh and to top it all of, he tripped over the ball, Took a throw in which ended up going straight out and then took a foul throw in. Talk about amateur stuff. Pathetic.
The rest of team nothing special, as I have said no one stood out.
Oh, and I dont agree with CL comments after the match. "Reasonably Happy" with result. We chucked 2 point away. WAKE UP!

By Dave Gittins (195.92.194.14) on Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 09:19 pm: Edit

Can't agree with you today Sheff - Merson made a fundamental error early on which led to West Ham's goal admittedly but from my vantage point (H L Fellows stand today) he rolled up his sleeves and got stuck in. I think it was the first time I have actually seen him run at players to harry them. Admittedly he tries to be a little too clever at times and I take your point that he should have got that particular shot on target. Several times he played lovely through balls that the forwards didn't quite read properly. Also it was his header that set the equaliser up for Leitao.

You ask why Lee couldn't get them playing differently as soon as Defoe got sent off - a bit difficult from on the bench perhaps? When he was able to give the players the half time talk that was his first chance to instruct them on the new tactics.

On the whole I came away from the ground feeling that I had seen a good game of football with plenty of chances that on the balance of play we should have won. On the strength of that, yes, maybe it was two points dropped but I don't think we were as bad as you made out.

By Stu (195.92.67.79) on Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 10:11 pm: Edit

2 points dropped, but a very good 2nd half.

I quite liked the change to play Merson in a more central role in the 2nd half, far more effective there than out on the right.

I've got to disagree with Sheff re: Bazeley... He was facing a £1m left winger who is nearly 10 years younger than him and skins most right backs in this division. He then had Wayne Quinn joining up and was effectively trying to deal with two players.

Its no point saying "tackle him" because you can't dive in at this level. If you've a player running at you with the ball and your on the back foot, as soon as you commit yourself then they will skip around you with ease. Bazeley played him right, ie, stood up and tried to jockey him. But, there is no doubting that Bazeley isn't up to this level at the moment.

I didn't think we were that bad in the first half. We had a lot of possession but just didn't know how to open them up. 2nd half was far better, but for all of our possession, we created just one 'hand on heart' goalscoring chance, that being Merson's.

We do lack that ability to get around the back of teams, we do lack that bit of pace.

But, despite 2 points dropped, I thought we played well. Plus, ignore the fact that they only had 10 men, take a look at those 10 men, any one of those would come straight into our team in my opinion.

By freda (195.93.34.9) on Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 10:52 pm: Edit

Except James !!!

Two points dropped imo,perhaps that's an indication of our aspirations. Good game,agree with man of the match award.Defoe a bit unlucky imo.

By Exile (203.167.253.205) on Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 11:09 pm: Edit

A draw against a top 6 team who should be going up this year isn't a bad result, but take one man off them and I must concur with other posters who've said it was two dropped not one gained.

However, another point in the bank, and we're not moaning about a loss or how awfully we played - reviews on the net say we were particularly good in the second half, and that has to help. Was the "luck factor" equal for both teams?

Whether it is the fault of the Manager or not, there's a little bit of confidence lacking in the club, both players and supporters, and each time we gain a point or more, that confidence grows. I reckon if we can do well against Cardiff away, that'll go a long way towards shaking our away game blues, and we might see a different Walsall throughout the second half of the season.

Cheers all,
Exile

By Stu (195.92.67.68) on Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 11:26 pm: Edit

If you add a decent bleedin winger to the side then you'll see a different Walsall.

I'm coming to the conclusion that a striker isn't needed as much as someone to create chances is. You can only blame strikers if they miss plenty of chances, we don't even create plenty for them to miss.

I can only dream about how good we'd be if we could fall on a loan winger like Matthew Etherington. Gareth Ainsworth would have done mind you.

Maybe Santa will bring us a winger for Xmas.

By LarryHaggler (81.133.144.66) on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 01:08 am: Edit

Stu - we missed 2 easy chances today, Merse 2nd half and Birch 1st half, both clean through.
If I was Merse I would seriously think about retirement today and he was at fault for there goal giving the ball away, he was poor I expect better. Bazeley and Zigor should be out next season, we look a so much better side with loan players there. Osborne again quite poor, Birch & Leitao industryus without being special and again we were really poor first half. Samways also looked very aged today, I'm gettin worried as most the teams we aspire to beat have won again, Rotheram, Sjoke and Palace. WE NEED a striker, Left & Right back and a midfielder.

By Exile (203.167.253.205) on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 01:48 am: Edit

All, for a good bit of nostalgia go read the "Ray Graydon Sacked" thread (go to Tree View, then select the 'You Said That Then' option).

Every time I get annoyed at being only 14th in the table I remember what we were like once, and that thread helps. We used to be the whipping boys in this division. Even if some misguided opposition fans (or even our own) still think so, we're not any more. That, ladies and gentlemen, is improvement.

Cheers all
Exile

By Surrey Saddler (195.93.34.9) on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 11:08 am: Edit

Yes two points dropped. What annoyed me was the way we went to pieces when Defoe was sent off. It was pretty obvious that they would be all fired up after the dismissal and we fell for it. In the second half we looked good but there again they only had 10 men. It was also a pity that the fans did not really get behind the team in the first half. I was in the Fellows stand at the far end near the West Ham supporters. These guys were taking the •••• out of us because of the lack of noise from the purple end. i.e. shuss and applause after the first rendition of come on you reds.

By K J C (195.188.152.14) on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 12:06 pm: Edit

I thought it was a cracking game of football and although I feel that the three points were there for the taking, I am not going to crucify anyone.

IMO all the lads gave 100% and that is all I ask.

I just think that we were up against some of the best young footballing talent in the division. With a bit more luck and confidence in front of goal we could / should have beaten them. However, 100% commitment to the cause and passion for Walsall Football club is what is essential for me and I think that was what we got, Therefore am not too upset at the end result.

By PGtips (195.188.152.10) on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 12:07 pm: Edit

Why are some posters critical of merson? He has been at his most effective in the games with West Ham, Sheff Utd and Bradford when played behind the 2 strikers. Yesterday he was always caling for the ball, using it intelligently and prepared to run at players. For a 35 yr old he has no worries about getting on the ball and taking his man on. Yes he was at fault for the goal and he did miss a sitter but overall a great contribution.

How many times does Osborn look up, see an opposition player in the line of the most obvious pass - and then make the pass anyway?

Defoe - unlucky. I guess it was the time of the incident which did for him. His kick out could be interpreted as frustration at losing possession if it had happened late in the 2nd half. He did just seem to kick air without looking intentionally at Roper. Coming so soon after the start of the match it must have seemed more aggresive to the ref as he did not have time to build up any frustration. I would have been upset if a Walsall player had got a straight red in such circumstances. Still it was fun to hear all 4 sides of the ground chant OFF OFF OFF for every slight nudge or push for the rest of the match.

By Moaning Saddler (217.44.83.190) on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 03:32 pm: Edit

PG,

Spot on about Merse - his 2nd half contribution in particular was excellent yesterday.

Also thought that Ritchie, Roper AND Ziggy were very solid defensively, although Bazeley had a torrid time in the 1st half.

By ucow (195.93.34.9) on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 03:43 pm: Edit

a good game in the second half. having seen the sending off on tv the ref got it completly right he only just missed roper with his kick if he had of made contact he would have broken ropes leg! as for Sheff having a go at zigor i carnt beleve it he had one of the best games ever in a walsall shirt! look solid in defence got forwards at every chance and put in cross after cross for the walsall forwards to attack! once again we are seeing the blinkered views of sheff a person who doesnt like zigor!

i also thought that at times bazley did well against west ham but he let himself down far to often with pathetic attempts to play the ball.

as for merson not the best game he has played he stupidly gave away the ball very cheaply but where was his support to release the ball?

overall i would have settled for a point before the game. yes we could have won the game but even with 10 men West Ham looked more than capable of holding onto a 1-0 lead with some cleaver keep ball and the running down of the clock that they did!

By salop saddler (213.78.111.200) on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 04:24 pm: Edit

You make a good point about Merse ucow. We do tend to look like statues at times, well, most of the time if truth be told. Seeing as we have no pace what-so-ever in the side we really must start to 'stretch' teams with a little more off the ball activity. All in all it was a good game of football, very entertaining in fact, despite the fact that I almost came to blows with a fellow Saddler who constantly droned on and on about Merson being a twot. I tried, in vain, to cast his mind back to the dark days of third division football and how we'd progressed since then, sadly, all to no avail. I really do wonder sometimes what it is Saddlers fans want.

By David Potter (65.66.223.123) on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 04:47 pm: Edit

We were guilty (again) of giving the ball away far too cheaply!

A good game of football. We went to peices a little in the first half. Defoe was unlucky to be sent off, I guess the referee interpreted his intent, they scored and should have really capitalized on that, because we were reeling at the time.

Merson didn't look very comfortable on the right, was much better in the second half when playing in the middle. We were warned by the Pompey fans that Paul likes to try things with the outside of his boot - son, it aint't working!
Sometimes, brawn is better the brains!

The second half was very good. We were a tad unlucky not to have won the game. I always thought West Ham looked like they could step it up a gear, fortunately, they didn't.
We're still not creating enough chances for my liking, but that's really been the story all season long.

By Geordiesaddler (195.93.34.9) on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 07:59 pm: Edit

Excellent game, fair result, decent point, well worth 9 quid.

By Pete (80.225.133.236) on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 11:26 pm: Edit

.. and the air fare from HK!

By Pete (80.225.133.236) on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 11:30 pm: Edit

PS Have to agree completely with Moaning Saddler ... or I won't get my Christmas dinner!

By roger miller (82.37.161.78) on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 11:50 pm: Edit

OK larry haggler you think merse should retire .......are you really serious ok first half he lost possesion of the ball and west ham scored.....but the 2nd half he was brilliant......if you want to have a knock at someone look at osbourne is distrubution of the ball was pathetic. I know we have got some knock merson down fans on this site but larry you really dont know what you are talking about

By popperpancake (81.77.178.155) on Monday, December 22, 2003 - 01:04 am: Edit

It was a fair result in the end. West Ham played well considering they had 10 men. I thought Merson had a decent game to be honest. He was obviously at fault for their goal and he missed that one on one, but he was constantly involved in all our forward play in the second half. Bazeley was poor first half but improved drastically in the second. Osborn was poor i thought, he worked hard but too often his passing was awry. And Aranalde, what exactly was wrong with his defending on saturday? I thought he did well against Harewood (who is a dangerous •••••••), it was also a great moment when he trod on the ball! What more can u ask for?! He also got Ritchie out the •••• when the psychotic scot tried to dribble out of our box early on. First half it was annoying how easily they were allowed to get the ball into Connolly...he held it up well, but Ritchie and Roper weren't tight enough to him and the midfield allowed Carrick and Horlock the freedom of Bescot to feed it into him. The second half was always gonna pan out with us having lots of the ball. Just a shame we couldn't nick the second. We all know what we are missing the most...pace. In midfield or up front. Dwayne Chambers might be available.

By BLACK FLAT (194.203.67.97) on Monday, December 22, 2003 - 10:26 am: Edit

i enjoyed the game,just wish we would take the
inititive a bit more at the start of each half.

did ziggy get the mom for causing the whole ground
to laugh, after the first half i thought we played
well enough but id have taken osbourne off he was
having a mare.

lets hope we go to cardiff and give the formation
a go there confidence must be down

By Bristol Saddler (217.161.104.2) on Monday, December 22, 2003 - 10:31 am: Edit

I had the pleasure of watching the game in a box on Saturday with 'Chris (legend) Marsh' and he felt it was a point won, with West Ham 1-0 up and how tricky it is to play 10 men, particularly of the Hammers quality. However, my view:

(1) Ziggy had a good game, got forward well and handled Haerwood very effectively, okay he still struggles to beat the first man with his crosses, but the best he has played for a while. Get off his back.
(2) Roper's distribution was worse than normal, apart form that him and Rithcie played well.
(3) Bazeley was pants! What has happened to him! He was cr*p at Sheff Utd and on Saturday and cannot defend against the likes of Etherington and Tonge. Send Vincent back and get a right back instead.
(4) Thought Osborn played okay, he has distributed the ball better, but okay, as was Samways. Not convinced by Wrack's contribution.
(5) Merse cost us 3 points by giving the ball away that lead to their goal and trying to be to fancy with an easy opportunity.
(6) Birch and Jorge were okay, but didn't create a huge amount and Birch should have done better with his clear chance.

When you consider that it was a mistake that lead to their goal and we missed a couple of clear cut chances, we have to be disappointed with a draw! If O'Neill had been playing we'd have won that game!

As for CL, as you know I am one of his most ardent defenders. However, I couldn't understand why he didn't take Bazeley off and go for a back three and give Wright a chance or Emblem a go up front! Bit like when he left Lawrence on 30mins to long the other week!

Anyway see you at Cardiff!

By Ian Gittins (213.165.1.175) on Monday, December 22, 2003 - 12:47 pm: Edit

I enjoyed the game and thought we played really well second-half against a very talented team. The defence looked good, apart from a sometimes shaky Bazeley, I'll eat my words and say that I'm impressed with Wrack lately, and although Merson gave away their goal and missed a sitter, he also looked good on the ball and played some excellent through passes. He has to stay central midfield - end of discussion. My only drawbacks were (once again) up front. Leitao and Birch both looked too static, were second to most balls and were shaken off the ball too easily. That is the area where we need inspiration. But we have to stick with 'em: Emblen is whole-hearted but limited, and I guess we have to assume Bishop and Hawley aren't going to break through just yet. If at all. Overall, we played well - and Aranalde as MOTM was not a bad call.

By Dave Roe (217.37.14.235) on Monday, December 22, 2003 - 03:00 pm: Edit

"Merson gave away their goal and missed a sitter, he also looked good on the ball and played some excellent through passes. He has to stay central midfield - end of discussion."

For once Ian, I am in total agreement with you. How anyone can consider playing Paul anywhere other than central midfield is beyond me.

By Stu (195.92.67.79) on Monday, December 22, 2003 - 03:53 pm: Edit

Unless of course he doesn't want to play there... Which has been the case for pretty much the first half of the season.

He looked a completely different player behind the front two, whilst both fullbacks got forward well. I'd love to see us keep that formation, whether we do is a different story.

By PGtips (134.220.238.154) on Monday, December 22, 2003 - 05:07 pm: Edit

If he does not want to play there then tough. This is a team game and that is the best position for the team.

By Keep Ziggy in. (195.188.152.16) on Monday, December 22, 2003 - 06:15 pm: Edit

As for the debate about Bazeley of Aranalde being the weak link in defence, I think Bazeley was awful whilst Ziggy played well and deservedly got MOTM. Agree with Bristol, send back Vincent, keep Ziggy in the team and get a new right back.

By Delves Saddler (82.37.162.58) on Monday, December 22, 2003 - 09:14 pm: Edit

Absolutely, PG. It would be tough if he didn't want to play there - we cannot pander to one player just because of who he is.

Sheff - what is your problem with Zigor? Myself and Dave Roe commented after the game that he was excellent, and I still stand by that. Our left flank just seems to have something more (energy?) about it when he is galloping down the wing. Yes, he has defensive flaws however, he did get us out of the sh*t on saturday on a couple of occasions.

Merson - West Ham mates commented to me after that he was a class above anything else we have got. I thought he had one of his better games of late, although I do think his passing is still a bit off and his seems to have lost his shooting boots. Would still have him in the team for any home game, though.

Not sure if it was 2 points lost or 1 won.

We had enough chances (a couple of them sitters) to wrap it up against ten men and had plenty of possession in the second half which we didn't make count.

Having said that, I think the Hammers coped with losing a man better than we made it count and had Defoe stayed on the pitch we could have been in trouble - you could tell they were itching to break out and attack but the circumstances dictated otherwise. Also, they could have put the game beyond us in the first half with their chances. Plus, they do have the best defence in the league.

Looking at the table now, I am happy with 31 points at Christmas. Imagine what where we could have been with a regular goalscorer.

Incidentally, for an example of biased poor reporting, read the match report on the Hammers website:

http://www.whufc.com/index.asp

By redordead (213.122.161.113) on Monday, December 22, 2003 - 11:59 pm: Edit

good point popperpancake, maybe the next time dickheads scream at bazeley to put the whippet into row g they should have a look where the two centre half are. another point is when either full back crosses the halfway line and has both hands in the air and is in acre's of space for gods sake give him the ball, he's ran 50 yards( and in Bazeleys case) thats alot, no wonder he struggles to get back. As for the dickhead sitting a few rows behind me who shouted "we won't do anything with dingles in our team" the words GOODMAN, BENNETT, AND "MILLENIUM STADIUM" spring to mind. I am not very keen on Wolves myself but come saturday at 3:00pm i couldn't give a damn if they have played for mars, grow up and get over it

By Delves Saddler (194.73.163.108) on Tuesday, December 23, 2003 - 10:33 am: Edit

Absolutely, redordead (why do I find myself agreeing with so many people lately, except Sheff!!). The anti-ex-dingle brigade - grow up! If you spoke to someoene who turned out to be an ex-dingle fan and he saw the light and became a Saddler, would you slate him?

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