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Gillingham (h) - League - 29th September 2003

Reports and reaction from the 2003-04 season as Walsall finished 22nd (R) in Division 1
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Gillingham (h) - League - 29th September 2003

Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:30 pm

By hullsaddler (212.50.181.176) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 10:07 pm: Edit

Well as own goal winners that was a classic.Thank you Andy Hesenthaler.Super save from Jimmy especially as he hadnt had a great deal to do .Must admit I thought they were going to pinch it especially after Jorge missed that header.
Was impressed with the new boys. League table looking a lot better now than last week.

By cat3 (218.102.21.141) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 10:16 pm: Edit

2 wins in a row, awesome! Who said CL doesn't know his gig and who said the players are not cooperating... You see, things end pretty nicely now with addition of Baird and O'Neil... Great accomplishment. Up we go Saddlers and bottoming out!

By reading saddler (81.6.229.62) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 10:22 pm: Edit

superb loving it for the mo anyway dont wanna sound pesimistic but there only on loan

By Fish (81.132.133.25) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 11:36 pm: Edit

Great first half, but what a nerve wracking second.

I suppose the one positive is to come away with three points without looking the part, perhaps we can build on this.

For me, I still think that the shape is not right, I agree with the WM comments, the Merson + one other up front is not working and hasn't - much prefer two up front especially at home, with Merse just behind.

Just a few questions from tonight;

What was that substitution all about Mr Lee (the Baze for Pedro one) ?

What price three on the trot on Saturday ? - we're due a win at Turf Moor.

How come Fraser Stretton is still allowed to referee football matches ?


By freda (195.93.33.12) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 12:08 am: Edit

Fish,Pedro had been limping for 2 or 3 mins (just in front of me),and indicated to Lee he wanted to come off.Agree about having two in front of PM.

Cheers

Cheers.

By thebeardedone (62.252.204.200) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 12:10 am: Edit

hmm, watched from the sports cafe on broad street, first half was just fantastic, but I thought the second was a bit down tempo, yeah, Fish is right, the baze sub was a bit strange, but hey, we won, and if you think about the chances we had, with a really good partner for jorge, we could be scoring 4 or 5 in a game like that. Ritchie was solid, and the 2 loan lads showed great commitment and also added something new to the attack. C'mon thee saddlers

By DF (193.237.102.207) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 06:21 am: Edit

Gillingham were so poor that the free hand out of an equaliser was inevitable. Sat there for much of the second half waiting for them to steal the game and was mighty relieved when Hesenthaler snatched the points for us.
Great save by Jimmy, although saves like that don't surprise me anymore. All these years and saves on and still no-one from above has taken a chance on JW. More fool them.
An altogether important win, it eases some of the pressure a 4 game away run will inevitably bring and we've taken the spoils from one of the teams that will be down there with us.
Not sure about the merson + 1 (or 2 debate). I think you can play with one other and Merson if your midfield threesome can break in front of the strikers. For an hour on Saturday we did that but last night we seemed more willing to sit and hold. Lawrence & O'Neill are the keys to making this system work; give Merson the bodies and he will find one.

By Delves Saddler (82.37.160.127) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 06:55 am: Edit

Simple reason for JW not attracting attention from above - he lacks height.

Matty Fryatt (yes, I'm on about him again) is the answer as a partner for Jorge or Birch (Jorge was great last night chasing and harrying but he missed a sitter and I'm not sure the goals will come evetually).

Excellent first half, poor second.

Short comments from me as I'm off to work in Leeds now. More later.


By Delves Saddler (82.37.160.127) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 06:56 am: Edit

Emblen MOM for me - brilliant display.

By Stu (13.16.137.11) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 08:21 am: Edit

I wouldn't say it was a poor second half to be honest. I think you have to give Gills some credit. Hessenthaler came out with the sole purpose of shutting Vinny down and that worked a treat, he turned them around with his passion and willingness to work hard.

I thought we adjusted slightly though and got better as the game went on. We deserved the win in my view, without doubt although I wish we'd take our chances to kill games off earlier. How Jorge missed that header I'll never know...

We do face 4 very tough away games now and I'd be pleased if we could manage to swing just 4 points out of the next 12. Looking at Burnley and Watford, we must be looking to get something there as I can't see us getting anything at Sunderland or Reading.

By coxanddrummie (195.93.33.12) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 09:12 am: Edit

Another win and u can't be over critical at that but lets look at the overall picture saddlers fans. i think we have been lucky to win the last 2 games because our second half performances have been pretty apalling. why is this, is it lack of fitness, is it lack of confidence. the fact is that we could have easily have drew both games but for a glaring miss by fuller and a brilliant save by jimmy walker. we have severe problems when we lead teams and when we play better teams than the last 2 this will be exposed. another point, why is jorge leitao in this team. im sorry to say but he is useless, we must get another striker or give someone else a chance

By ShropshireSaddler (212.159.63.151) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 09:23 am: Edit

leitao is in the worst form of his walsall career. Not sure why - unfit, fed up, missing Junior? He was 2nd to every ball last night, hardly won a header all game and missed an absolute sitter. Cannot understand why we aren't trying something different. Why take Burton on loan and then not play him?

By boris (62.188.8.116) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 09:38 am: Edit

coxandrummie.

U say we were lucky, but in both games we TOTALLY dominated for the first 60 minutes and should have got 2 goals in the first half of each game. Therefore perhaps we were UNLUCKY (remember the woodwork against Preston ?).

Also remember the "bad luck" to lose at Crewe and Millwall. It all evens out kid.

If we had played like we did against derby we would still be on 6 points not 12 - and that, my foolish friend, is not luck.

In both the last two games we were clearly the better side, and we won. what else can I say ?

There are still issues, but the two loan signings have helped us turnaround. that also is not luck, but rather good management by CL

By popperpancake (81.134.180.131) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 09:48 am: Edit

I thought we were the better team. Not so good in the second half (a bit dull at times), but i think that was the result of them changing to 5 in midfield. 6 points is great going into the 4 away games. Hopefully we'll pick up an away win in one of them.

By Bristol Saddler (217.161.104.2) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 10:24 am: Edit

We were definatley the better side last night!

The negatives: For all our inventiveness and creativity in the first 60 mins, it needed a long range effort from Matias (corking) and a deflected shot to get us the points. Gills also had a goal diallowed (which some of Ref's would have allowed) and Walker had to be at his ever consistent best to keep the points. Jorge's missed a sitter & Merson is getting p*ssed off with him! We still need a striker or two!

The positives: Gills only got back into it, because Vinny was playing 'Simple Simon' in the box. Emblem and Ritchie were great, loan guys superb, extend the deals now CL. 2nd win on the bounce and CL has sorted it. Still a good performance from a team, still getting used to playing with each other (and I don't mean in the biblical sense)!

Next 4 games are tough, but we can build on these results.

KEEP THE FAITH!

By Stu (13.16.137.11) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 10:44 am: Edit

Cox, get off your high horse, take your "anti-Lee" hat off and wake up.

For every "if this had happened we might have drawn" I can give a "if that had happened we'd still have won".

You say if it hadn't been for a brilliant save by Walker they'd have won, but what about Jorge's glaring miss?

You point to Fuller's (it was actually Cresswell's) miss, but what if O'Neil or Ritchie's chances had gone in rather than hit the bar.

It makes me laugh when people, espeically somebody as 'esteemed' as yourself having worked under the "great Brian Clough" point to "ifs and buts".

"If the goals were two foot wider", "if the keeper was 2 inches shorter"... Football is about what happened, not the 'ifs and buts'.

What "if" the Ref hadn't given that ridiculous penalty at Millwall? What "if" one of the ball boys had returned the ball quicker at the Cardiff match, we might have played less stoppage time and won 1-0.

Ifs and buts mean nothing, espeically after a match.

Simple fact is, we won both matches and deserved to win both matches. On Saturday, we conceded a goal and panicked. Last night, we conceded a goal and remained patient whilst continuing to work hard and we got our reward. You can already see the difference that a victory has made.

By RushallSaddler (217.207.41.3) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 11:48 am: Edit

Yep, we're now two points better off than last season after 10 games, with the easier two of the upcoming 4 away games on the bounce to follow, a 4 point return from these games would be nice to take into the Sunderland game.

By SheffieldSaddler (172.185.138.161) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 11:56 am: Edit

Coxanddummie. You are a total idiot do you know? How can anyone complain after winning 2 matches on the bounce? Only people like the anti Lee brigade.
I honestly wish people like you would p*ss off supporting Walsall FC and go and support someone else because I would rather have an empty seat at the ground then an idiot like you sat in it.
Sad isnt it, a Walsall fan prefering to see an empty seat then someone in it, but I am sorry I have just no patience at all for people like dummie.

By salop saddler (213.78.101.194) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 01:07 pm: Edit

Well said Sheff.

By Dave Roe (217.37.14.235) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 02:00 pm: Edit

I don't agree with Cox that the second half was appalling. It was poor but not as bad as appalling.

I will not accept that playing one out and out striker (especially at home) is the best way to play. Give Merson two options to choose from and I'm sure we'll see the real Merson in action.

Yet again we started to sit back and concede possesion. At one point we only had Merson up front and just like the Cardiff game the ball kept returning into our box before we had time to reorganise. This has got to stop. If the players are going against Lee's wishes by doing this then he should start dishing out some bollockings to the culprits.

I don't want to sound like I'm moaning, I think there have been many more positives than negatives in the last two games. One problem, will we be able to ask O'Neill to travel up from Portsmouth to collect his player of the season award come May ?


By Neil Ravenscroft (62.172.127.2) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 02:18 pm: Edit

Yes.

By Bristol Saddler (217.161.104.2) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 02:24 pm: Edit

Well said Sheff!

Being a Saddler! Its all about 'Keeping the Faith' and if you don't like it, p*ss off and support a team with loads of cash, loads of fans and a bl**dy long waiting list for tickets!

We have 12 points from 10 games, 6 points above the relegation zone and 6 points from the playoffs and this form would be enough to keep us up and in mid table (1.2 points per game x 46 games = 55points). And all that from a team, that has been riddled with loan signings, injuries, suspensions and only 1 recognised striker (who is out of form)! Not a bad start and something CL will build on!

CL is doing well and he don't need me or anyone else to tell him, he can do better! No doubt he's already onto Redknapp to get the O'Neill deal extended, with a bit of luck they'll take Birch in exchange!

KEEP THE FAITH!

By Stu (13.16.137.11) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 02:47 pm: Edit

Dave,

If you play two strikers AND Merson, you probably need two midfielders sitting deep to prevent the midfield from being over-run.

Thus, Merson has just two options ahead of him.

If you play 1 striker and Merson, then you can have two direct midfielders coming from deep. Therefore, Merson has 3 options ahead of him.

Combine this with Baird who is showing us how to really cross a ball (ie, whipped in with pace) and suddenly you've got more men appearing in the box, more chance of getting on the end of the cross.

With O'Neill and Lawrence in the middle, a lone striker is my preferred option.

If we lost O'Neil, then I think we'd need to go for two strikers unless we could get a similar replacement.

As for sitting back and conceding possession. I posted something from Ray Lewington who is moaning at his players doing the same. There isn't much Lee can do, its a collective decision that the players do, be it conciously or sub-conciously. You can't drop the team.

There is only so much a manager can do. Its a sign of a team who are low on confidence or edgy/nervy. Notice that we didn't do it when we had a 2 goal cushion or when we were on top. But, put under any sort of pressure and the players are desperate to hold out... Part and parcel of a struggling team in my view and hopefully something that will soon change.

By PT (213.48.241.65) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 03:15 pm: Edit

Well said Sheff!
People seem determind to undermine Lee but don't seem to have the balls to explain why. The reason is quite straight forward in that they thought he was a tw*t when he was appointed and haven't got the humility to say they were wrong. Just waiting to reel out an "I told you so". Morons.
Half a dozen behind me tried to get a "you don't know what you're doing" chant going when he took pedro off and replaced him by Bazeley. Pedro had been limping for five minutes and Bazeley did surprisingly well (Colin actually works with these players five or six days a week so has probably seen that baze can play there). For the first time on th night Noseworthy was turned, Bazeley got to the bye-line put in an excellent cross which the defender did well to clear. Resulting corner, goal, 2-1, job done but 5 minutes later Lee is apparantly a "Dingle C**t" because he took off a shattered Merson. I try to work on the premise that people pay their money and deserve to air their opinions but I am beginning to get wound up by people who refuse to acknowledge what is going on right in front of them.
Anyway, rant over, two great results, agree with Stu, four points from these four aways would be satisfactory

By coxanddrummie (195.93.33.12) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 04:20 pm: Edit

The only way u improve as a team stu is if u use those ifs and buts as a knowledge base so that u can iron out these things in future. surely thats why players train isn't it. any manager will tell u that. the point is preston missed a sitter against us through our own poor defending. you surely have to look at that and address it, the same applies, we never finished em off through poor finishing. you can never settle for just winning a game without thinking how could we have won it better. you never stand still, always got to look at ways to improve. now we have won the last 2 games that should give us a platform to say great we got six points, lets build on this because we will play better teams and if we give them chances and a glimmer of hope, they will take it. lets stick to the principal that just because you are leading that doesn't mean u should not still play attacking football because thats what give u the advantage in the 1st place. we have to learn to kill teams. attack is the best form of defence. one negative about the last 2 games and generally is that we change mentality when we lead teams to a defensive attitude. this is all well and good to play that way if u have pace players who can counter attack, we don't so therefore we must keep on playing a high pressure game like we have for much of those 2 games and not disown that principal just because you are winning

By Bristol Saddler (217.161.104.2) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 05:47 pm: Edit

Coxanddummie, your user name is possibly the most entertaining thing about your posts!

Are you seriously suggesting that CL, wants us to stand still, doesn't want us to improve and isn't aware that our defending and finishing could be better!

Low confidence, nerves and the amount of changes in personnel and moreover the oppositions desire to get something out of the game, result in us being under pressure and looking defensive towards the end of the game! This happens week in week out, up and down the country when a team is only a goal ahead in the last 10! I can assure you CL won't be happy with that.

Also we very nearly scored when we were 2-1 up, thanks to Jorge's pace and persistance!

I also can't seriously believe you posted "great we got six points, lets build on that", are you suggesting CL thinks we're safe now!

Coxanddrummie, if you are a Walsall fan, then I'm an Olympic Pole Vaulter! Can I suggest you join the Midland Reds and support those c*nts who reside on the red side of Manchester! Your posts and opinions are straight out of Shoot magazine!

By Stu (195.92.67.69) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 06:42 pm: Edit

Cox, no. Of course you have to look at the "ifs and buts" when it comes to a learning experience, learning what to do better, when to do this and when to do that.

But, you can't use "ifs and buts" in the context of "if they'd scored that, it'd have been 2-2", "but we were lucky coz of this and that".

That is a completely different area your talking about.

People also often forget that if "if..." actually happened to start with, then that would have changed the rest of the game and what would actually happened would never have happened because the play would have been different.

By coxanddrummie (195.93.33.12) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 08:45 pm: Edit

Oh come on you lot, have a bit of respect. i mean u can call me names and have a go at me, im thick skinned enough to not take it personally but don't say im not a saddler. thats a bit unfair ain't it. just because i don't like colin lee and don't think he is good enough for walsall it don't mean i don't want em to win. id love colin lee to prove me wrong and id be man enough to go shake him by the hand and tell him i was wrong. the fact is that this 1st division is there for the taking, i think it is a poor standard and lookin at the other teams there is no reason why walsall can't at the very least be top half. all i hear is saddlers fans sayin lee has kept us up. SO WHAT. DON'T YOU ALL WANT BETTER THAN JUST THAT.

By Exile (203.98.50.21) on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 01:40 am: Edit

I can't agree with most of your arguments, C&D, but I do think that you've copped a bit more flak than you should have done for your comments.

Disagree about the poor standard in this division this year - think it is harder than last, to be honest, especially now Brighton & Stockport are out of it. I agree that we're better than we were last year though, at least on paper, and I and every other person on this board (away fans excepted) expect us to do better than last year. 14th place right now - better than last year, and sitting pretty, I'd say! Some good fortune in the next few games might see us cracking the top half again

Cheers all
Exile

By Stu (13.16.137.11) on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 08:19 am: Edit

If this division is there for the taking then I'm the Queen of Sheba...

By Geordiesaddler (195.92.194.12) on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 10:18 am: Edit

So a win on Saturday and I take it you'll be shaking CL by the hand and telling him you were wrong, ie as we enter the top half? Basically we're one win away from that scenario CandD so get ready mate.

By Delves Saddler (194.73.163.108) on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 11:30 am: Edit

We need two strikers. I am still unconvinced about Lawrence as an attacking outlet from the midfield and sincerely believe an extra pair of legs up front would have wrapped that game up in the first half.

However, if we are going to play just one striker (as in Stu's theory) Jorge is not the man for the job by any means. If it is true that we are sending Burton back and taking Burchill, then Burchill is the answer - excellent pace and ball control and a good eye for goal.

It appears Fryatt is out of the picture altogether at the moment (not on the bench again - quite what he did wrong at Bolton to warrant his omission from the subs is behyond me) so I will just have to bite my lip from now on and go with whatever other options are available to us.

As for CL - there is only one thing that bothers me about him, and you all know what that is - his reluctance to use Fryatt and other young players when the senior players clearly aren't performing (my final word on the matter for at least one week!). Incidentally, the kid Daryl Taylor who is a winger in the youth and reserves is banging them in - I saw him at Boldmere and he was like sh*t off a shovel (quicker than Fryatt) and looks an extremely good prospect.

Otherwise, I believe CL is doing an excellent job given the conditions mentioned by Bristol (loan signings bedding in, injuries, suspensions and only 1 recognised striker (who is out of form)!) and he will continue to improve the team by whatever measn necessary.

I can't say I wasn't hoping for a better return at this stage, but at the end of the day, we will finish higher than we did last season (I still think top 10 is within our reach) and we will have been entertained a lot more than we were last season.

Well done so far to CL.

N.B. Excellent posts from Bristol, Stu, Sheff
(If's and but's are the argument of a desparate man - we are by no means desparate!!)

By Neil Ravenscroft (62.172.127.2) on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 12:18 pm: Edit

Lee's record of blooding young players at Wolves was fine (Lescott, Naylor, whatshisface who's at Cambridge now), so I'll reserve judgment about whether any of ours are ready.

By PGtips (134.220.2.2) on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 12:18 pm: Edit

If we play with just one up front then we must convince Merson to try and hold the ball for a few moments. In some games this season he has looked to release a first time pass or flick every time he recieves the ball. It's great if your frontman can read it but Jorge clearly can not. By just holding onto the ball for a moment it gives GON and Lawrence the opportunity to move up and join in the attack.

Fryatt and Taylor should really be on loan if they are not even going to make the bench. Burton was worth a look at but does not seem persevering with. GON and Baird however are outstanding. It looks like we are going to use the loan system to good effect this year. Nice one CL.

By WarsawPact (195.137.49.182) on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 12:54 pm: Edit

Interesting interview with Gary O'Neil here:

http://www.icons.com/oneil/diary.html?30.9.03

By Delves Saddler (194.73.163.108) on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 03:09 pm: Edit

You couldn't copy and paste it, could you Warsawpact - I've registered with enough sites as it is and don't want to do another.

Ta.

By Neil Ravenscroft (62.172.127.2) on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 03:22 pm: Edit

It basically cofirms the Sjoke/Rotherham/Us story and gives the credit for him being here to Deon Burton (it was worth getting him on loan just for that!), as Deon told him to come, as he was readying himself for Rotherham. Deon must have then run off to see Colin, as 10 minutes later, he rings Redknapp with an enquiry. Big pal of Deon, pleasure to be playing with Merse, really enjoying himself.

By Delves Saddler (194.73.163.108) on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 03:53 pm: Edit

Cheers Neil.

By WarsawPact (195.137.44.98) on Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 09:20 am: Edit

Cut & paste has been disabled on the Icons site, and it would be easier for you to register than it would be for me to type out the whole article from scratch!

By Neil Ravenscroft (62.172.127.2) on Thursday, October 02, 2003 - 09:55 am: Edit

The way around that is to "view" "source" and, when it opens in wordpad, cut and paste from there. Giving the secrets away again!

By WarsawPact (195.137.44.98) on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 09:00 am: Edit

Maybe Neil.

But I notice that you haven't infringed Icons' copyright by doing that, so why are you trying to get me to?

By Neil Ravenscroft (62.172.127.2) on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 10:12 am: Edit

Damn. Another plot foiled!

By Don Rogers (213.122.196.101) on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 10:56 am: Edit

Does this mean that if Deon Burton is unwanted and goes back South, then O'Neill will go as well??

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