Cardiff (h) - League - 30th August 2003

[Andy]

By Jorge14 (195.93.33.12) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 05:25 pm: Edit

1-1 and so Very disapointing.

A totally inept tactical performance following the sending of and re: Merson's positioning. How can he be named MOM, he was out of the game completely. The blame for the tactics can only go to Mr. Lee.

Sadly, the equaliser was well deserved.#

One bright spot, Paul Ritchie was fantastic.

My MOM - Paul Ritchie or Steve Corica

By Didn't go due to work (213.122.107.174) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 05:33 pm: Edit

Was the sending off justified?

How did the referee perform overall?

Would a new striker have helped?

By rolo (195.93.33.12) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 05:44 pm: Edit

that is what you get for playing 4-5-0

By ToeJoe Jnr (62.30.239.37) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 05:51 pm: Edit

Steve Corica MOM!!!! I'll get my coat.

By Cannock (213.48.83.208) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 05:57 pm: Edit

Well, i don't know whether to be pleased for surviving the second half onslaught or choked at losing 2 points at the death. The first half we were dominant but as ever we lacked the cutting edge in the final third. The second half though we totally lost control. After our goal the midfield totally disintegrated which continued after the sendings off.

Cardiff attacked relentlessly and it seemed inevitable that they would score. We seemed content to battle away for the last 30 minutes on the edge of our own box. The midfield became invisible and i find this unacceptable with the experienced players we have in our ranks.

Cardiff fully deserved a point (if not all 3 for their second half showing). Poor show Saddlers.

Note! Why the hell is Leitao continually in the right back spot covering for Bazeley? Lee cannot expect him to run all over the pitch like a madman and still pop up at the other end to score surely. Crazy.

By Walsall Supporter (82.37.192.112) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 06:03 pm: Edit

If it hadn't been for the penalty awarded to us, I can't see where we would of scored.

I feel as soon as Zigor went off we lost the flow, and now we have Zigor and Samways missing 3 matches, god help us.

Alan Lee, he should of been sent off ages ago for his rough and cheating behaviour, I thought the Ref was Welsh for one moment.

I had predicted a 2 - 2 draw, but an still gutted that we were so close to 3 points, to have them swept away at 3 mins 2 sec's into injury time! (As BBC.Co.Uk says)

Think Jimmy Walker should of had Man on the Match, he kept us in the game!

By rolo (195.93.33.12) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 06:04 pm: Edit

totally agree cannock.leitao was everywhere.but he still looked fitter than birch when he came off.with only one striker on the books you would think birch would play his heart out.looks like he's content to pose and take the wages.

By Me2 (195.92.168.166) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 06:05 pm: Edit

once again, gutted. for a while I thought I was watching a game from last season.

poor, poor tactical performance - thats really all that can be said after todays game.

MOM - surely Wacker.

By Me2 (195.92.168.166) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 06:08 pm: Edit

oh yeah and Birch.....i dont think he deserves any more chances, he is a waste of space and money.

By scotty (81.77.134.81) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 06:10 pm: Edit

And did anyone hear Colin Lee's comments on WM? He totally slagged of the fans who sit behind him. Words such as "budding Alex Fergusons" and "Idiots" were used. He must realise that these people are entitled to their opinions whether he agrees with them or not - this is no time for staff at WFC to start having a go at the fans.

Some of the tactics today were very strange. As soon as Birch came on he immediatly went to left back - if this was the idea then why not play Pedro instead? - At least he'd have given some width and could have taken the ball in the corners! We should have the quality of players now who can keep posession - not just boot it up field and let the opposition bring it back. I know Mr Lee must be very frustrated at the moment in the clubs inability to attract another forward - Birch is NOT the answer.

By David Brindley (81.106.182.53) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 06:31 pm: Edit

Why criticise Birch when Colin tells him to cover the left back position. A number of other players would have been more suited to the role.
Did I hear Colin say no money was available when
interviewed on WM?

By Cal's a saddler (81.131.78.204) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 06:53 pm: Edit

Birch should be prepared to run and chase every ball. He was dreadful today whether he was played out of position or not. If he wants a place in the team he should be prepared to fight where ever he is put.

CL said he didnt have the funds available to offer a player a long term contract only a short term one and so the deal was almost certainly dead. Hope he's wrong.

Aranalde was sent of for retaliation after Lee kicked out at him. CL says it was right for them to both to go.

I'm glad we have a break now perhaps I can get my temper back. I'm so annoyed by this result!!!

By scotty (81.77.134.81) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 06:55 pm: Edit

On numerous occasions I saw Colin Lee urge Birch to get forwards down the left hand side. Lees body language suggested that Birch was not doing as instructed. I'm astounded that Birch is not giving 110% when coming on - he has the oppurtunity to prove himself. he's clearly not up to standard.

Who's going to cover for Aranalde for his 3 match ban? Maybe Kris Taylor will get the oppurtunity now.

By Esso (213.48.84.60) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 06:56 pm: Edit

What he said was that there was not as much money available to him as other clubs had got.
Bit of a choker to have lost 2 points in the last 15 seconds but if I was really honest I felt Cardiff were well worth a point. Zigor had a brainstorm and upset the defence, silly stupid and reckless, deserved to be sent off.

By New Breed Saddler (195.93.33.12) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 07:15 pm: Edit

Blah Blah Blah How dare Colin critisice us,is this the way us fans from May 2001 are repayed, no striker,pies cold, seat, to small,Jorge to foreign,Richie to Scotish ive had enough,Albion are doing well i think i will support them from now on in,but then again Blues and Villa won decisions,decisions,decisions.........

By popperpancake (81.77.151.224) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 07:16 pm: Edit

They fully deserved a point. Shocking, really shocking tactics after the sendings off. God knows what birch was doing. Lee was there most dangerous player all afternoon til the sending off, so what do we do when he's gone? Go completely negative (it was like they still had 11 on the pitch). Did their gk make a save apart from the penalty? Not that i can remember. Walker was outstanding, seemed like he fielded hundreds of shots. It was like watching RG's side (at least he had the excuse of •••• players). CL has done wonders for the club IMO, and it's not too bad a start this season either, but i am extremely(!) worried about how we will score goals. Bringing a new player to help with this is obviously proving difficult. Goalscorers don't come cheap. Our build up is far too slow as well. It's alrite being able to pass around in front of them, we lack penetration.

By Me2 (195.92.168.177) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 08:01 pm: Edit

popperpancake, i agree with the Sir Graydon comments, that exactly how i saw the last 30 minutes.

As for New Breed Saddler - •••• off an support the Albion then, you'll suit them.

By Jorge14 (195.93.33.12) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 08:07 pm: Edit

Zigor had been roughed up continuously. He had been kicked at (was kneed for Lee's sending off), pushed around by Lee, verbally abused by nearly all the Cardiff players and finally, spat at. It is no wonder Zigor reacted, but surely, a good man-manager would have spotted this and swopped him for 5 minutes with Ritchie. This is what Dave Merrington was so good at. Sadly, after a year, we still miss him in the same way I feel we will miss a striker this season.

On the striker situation, there are 500+ players out of work. There have got to be some decent strikers in there. And what of our link with Man Utd? Why not bring in Jimmy Davis (RIP), Daniel Nardiello, Colin Heath, Mads Timm etc. before the season? What is the link for? To send a 15 year old goalkeeper to cover a pre-season youth competition? I think its time that Colin stopped playing the Junior card.

We do not look likely to scoring goals. Jorge spends more time fighting at right back than he does up front, Birch looked void of any ideas and didn't seem to know what Lee had sent him on for.

Forgive me blinkered Merson fans, but currently, Merse is an absolute waste of space...I know, he has some nice touches, I know he makes some great runs and has great vision...but he is a MIDFIELDER, not a STRIKER. Lee needs to note that, and not give him that role...or tell him not to take that role. Merse did virtually nothing today, was very dispointing, and did not warrant the MOM award in the slightest.

The problem is, we have a good footballing team. However, our tactics do not suit that system, we get to a point and BANG, we can't go any further. When Jorge does get a ball he is too knackered to take advantage of it.
I.E. he had a great chance in the first half, one on one with the goalkeeper and he rolled it into Alexanders arms. That is not on, but we can't blame Jorge. He gets 0% support. This is the most frustrating part.

We say we have no prescense up front. Fine. Let's play Neil Emblen. OK, he's not the ideal fix, but he is a quick fix. He has prescense, and he is unorthadox. First Division defenders aren't used to a big man striker any more. Like Angell looked more dangerous in Division One briefly, Emblen could do a job up front in the short term.

New Breed, Colin should ignore those comments. Like when he swore at the fans against Cov last year, he should take it. He expects his players to take being booed and criticised, so why can't he? He's the manager, and if he throws his toys out of the pram, then you can't blame Zigor if he retaliates to treatment that should have warranted a Cardiff red card a long time before.

Finally, how can we go from chasing Premier League players to having no money? Do questions need to be asked once again? This club is always going to be tight with the purse-strings, so why spend money on Hotels and Houses?

By Hans Christian Anderson (213.48.84.60) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 08:31 pm: Edit

Like I said before my contact within the club tells me that the club is not activly buying houses behind the Banks Stand but might should they be up for sale, at the moment there are several players in hotels who could be living in club houses if the club owned them AND if in the future the club did want to expand the Banks Stand there would be no objections from occupants of club owned houses.
All the club is doing is letting a hotel chain finance the building of the hotel on ground owned by the club for which they will get a rent AND a cut of the profits from business they put the way of the hotel. eg. conferences and visiting teams.
It all seems to make reasonable sense to me.

By Dave Gittins (195.92.168.176) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 08:38 pm: Edit

After seeing today's match I can't help feeling that we are looking more and more like a 'nearly' team again. Thanks to Jimmy again for his several good saves that kept us in the match. I am at a loss to understand CL switching to 4 - 5 - 0 after Zigor's sending off. At minimum we should have left one up front to hold the ball when we hoofed it out of defence (maybe Corica could have done that). 4 - 4 - 1 would would have made a lot more sense.

As has already been mentioned, Jorge covered virtually every blade of grass on the pitch, but why do we find him at full back? Surely with our lack of strikers he should be up front.

I can't comment on Zigors sending off - I was watching the other ongoing incident at the time. Hopefully I should see that on Soccer Sunday tomorrow.

New Breed Saddler - I hope your post was intended in jest, if not we would be well rid of you.

One final point - Jorge 14 - what is the point in mentioning the late Jimmy Davis?

By Dave Gittins (195.92.168.176) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 08:41 pm: Edit

After seeing today's match I can't help feeling that we are looking more and more like a 'nearly' team again. Thanks to Jimmy again for his several good saves that kept us in the match. I am at a loss to understand CL switching to 4 - 5 - 0 after Zigor's sending off. At minimum we should have left one up front to hold the ball when we hoofed it out of defence (maybe Corica could have done that). 4 - 4 - 1 would would have made a lot more sense.

As has already been mentioned, Jorge covered virtually every blade of grass on the pitch, but why do we find him at full back? Surely with our lack of strikers he should be up front.

I can't comment on Zigors sending off - I was watching the other ongoing incident at the time. Hopefully I should see that on Soccer Sunday tomorrow.

New Breed Saddler - I hope your post was intended in jest, if not we would be well rid of you.

One final point - Jorge 14 - what is the point in mentioning the late Jimmy Davis?

By Dave Gittins (195.92.168.176) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 08:44 pm: Edit

Sorry, hit the button twice.

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.33.12) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 08:57 pm: Edit

How can anyone say Merson is a waste of space??? The touches he made today were superb. Do you actually watch the bloke or do you were blinkers on all match especially when it comes to number 10? Considering the bloke is not even playing in his best position I dont think you can ask anymore of him. What is it 4 goals already??? Wake up and watch him, then you will see his quality.
NOW if you want to critise someone today I suggest you look at that idle, good for nothing, useless piece of sh*te. I think he has the name Birch on the back of his shirt. If he is a footballer, Me, Geoff, Cannock, Stu and Doffer are the next pop idol band.
Face the facts, he wouldnt even get into a Sheffield Sunday pub team and never will. Christ I have seen 50 year old blokes after 20 pints on a Sturday night move more on a Sunday morning than Birch does. The bloke is a football player, yet he doesnt even know how to move off the ball. One of the first things you learn. USELESS DONKEY, go and play somewhere else.
Lee will have a striker on board before the Derby game, dont worry about that. Christ he is not stupid, he knows what we want. Unfortunately sometimes your hands are tied. Its up to the board now to stop this season going "t*ts up" asap. Merson must be thinking what on earth he has done!

By ANother Saddler (81.135.52.18) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 08:59 pm: Edit

Can anyone tell me why our supporters decide to •••• off home once the clock reaches 85 minutes, despie the fact that we might be winning, and holding on for a point? It must really give the players heart to see people fudge off before the end. You pay good money to watch the team, at least get your money's worth.

Lee can say what he likes about the fans. Surely if they are allowed to criticise him, he is allowed to turn round and tell them where to go? Some of the supporters in that stand start mouthing off at 5 past 3, never mind in the last ten minutes. It's one reason I don't sit there anymore. Some of them really do think they can do a better job, I'm sure of it.

I'd like to see Emblen given a run up front. I couldn't understand why it took until the 88th minute for him to come on at Crewe. He's got height and a presence that could unsettle a defence. Birch couldn't be arsed to run today. On one occasion the ball broke loose on the left and Birchy decided to run back towards his own goal. Lee went ape ••••.

Jorge should have scored in the first half. But even so credit to him because his goal should have been the winner. Reacted very well. But the fact that he hasn't got a partner means the midfield should be charging forwards. They don't. Still unbeaten at home, chin up, we can all boo Junior in two weeks, and take three points off his new employers.

By Pop Idol (213.48.83.208) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 09:07 pm: Edit

Actually, Geoff has potential with that jazzy purple number he had on

By merson10 (213.122.93.184) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 09:09 pm: Edit

Don't think there is any reason to get too negative. Thought both teams out there looked good and it would have been an excellent footballing match were it not for an over-officious ref (cf Jorge / Cardiff keeper booking: the classic handbags at 6 paces, no need for the yellow cards). Nevertheless we obviously decided to try and keep a clean sheet to secure the points, for which I don't think Colin should be faulted. After all isn't our problem goalscoring this season, so by defending a 1-0 lead we were surely playing to our strengths? Rather than chase a (possibly unnescessary) second goal with 10 men on a sunny day which would have left us exposed at the back. It wasn't 4-5-0 either because Merson rarely if ever came in our half.
Our problem was that we didn't close them down quick enough when they got into the final third. Roper, Bazeley, Hay and (the excellent) Ritchie cleared countless headers - apart from the crucial one in the last minute - from inside the box. However we seemed to hand them possession outside the area without making a challenge, which was disappointing. I didn't really think it was a barrage of pressure in the second half though, most of Jimmy's saves were from distance and routine, apart from a couple of pushes round the post and one tip over. Remember too that Corica and Leitao missed fairly simple chances in the first half.
My other concern is what is going to happen when/if we get another striker. Is he going to play alongside Jorge with Merson in behind? If so why don't we play that formation now but with Birch/Fryatt/AN Other alongside Jorge. Or is he going to be a back-up player? If so what's the point in getting him. That confuses me, but I'm sure all will become clear.
I'm still upbeat about the start to the season and am confident it will be our best ever finish. Two weeks now to get a forward in, knock a few goals past Derby, and all will be right with the world again.

By freda g (195.93.33.12) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 09:29 pm: Edit

Frustrating,but Cardiff deserved a point.Walker man o'the match imo.Mersons body language,doesn't bode well.If we don't get him some help.........

By Stu (195.92.67.69) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 09:34 pm: Edit

I think people are missing the point a bit, we didn't go negative on purpose. The sendings off forced us to a more negative formation.

In todays case, replacing a forward is easy as we lost a defender. They bring the forward on which forced Lee to move to a more defensive formation. After all, we were leading at that point, if we'd been losing we could have gone offensive.

That played into their hands and its not the fault of Lee, but the stupidity of Aranalde.

At the time, I thought it was stupid to play Merson up front on his own. But, when we got the ball to him, he held it up superbly, created space and time. But, Cardiff realised that if they made us kick it long, by closing down Walker then it'd negate that.

So, my only question would have been whether Emblen may have been utilised instead Merson just to give us some presence.

As for someone asking why Leitao covers right midfield. That's obvious. Merson doesn't have the legs to do it, so Jorge has responsibility to cover Merson's defensive work. Isn't that obvious to see?

As for Lee's comments. I don't blame him, some of the comments I heard today were quite baffling. One bloke behind me wanted Pedro bought on, and he was serious.

People have to realise that sometimes, you have to defend and hold on. You can't go for broke all the time. At 1-0 today, if we'd gone for broke and maintained an attacking outlook after the subs, if they'd scored, you'd all have been here criticising Lee for not defending.

So, he defended and we defended very well. After all, Cardiff were restricted to shots from 20 yards +, no real clear cut chances.

So far, 5 games gone and 1 defeat. Yes, we may have 3 draws but 3 draws are better than 3 defeats. If you add a 2nd striker to our line up, the majority of draws will turn into victories. The time to worry would be when if we were losing, and we're not. We look solid defensively and the addition of a 2nd striker will make a real impact in my view.

Glad to see Jorge score, 3 in 6 for him this season.

By Paulio (81.131.193.21) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 10:10 pm: Edit

I cant see why so many people on here praise Merson dont get me wrong he is a superb player but not a player for 90 minutes his touch today was superb but other than that he didnt do alot and how he got man of the match over Walker dazzled me if Walker hadnt stopped so many today we could have lost 10-1.

We either need to get a striker in and play Merson behind them or leave him on the bench till the second half where he'll be able to give 100% through the entire half and not take five mintues to get back onside.

But again like you say Stu its better to draw than to lose so lets get behind the boys and turn them draws into wins atmosphere was very limited today too many empty seats too.

By Don Rogers (213.122.200.200) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 10:54 pm: Edit

Well, we all seem to have been watching roughly the same match. Unlucky but frustrating and in the end only deserved a point.
Stu, both teams were down to 10 men - I don't seem to recall Cardiff going on the defensive - and we are at home. I regret having to say that the goal was inevitable, the way we were playing. 4-5-0 ain't a good idea when the opposition has FOUR forwards pouring forward. Note their substitution, bringing Thorpe on. Has Birch got a career death wish?? He's given a chance to make a name and spends his time just ambling about the place instead of running his socks off for 15 minutes. Lack of skill can be forgiven - lack of effort can't! Merson was NOT impressed. Nor me.
With regard to Jorge - a willng worker but unfortunately not a natural, instinctive goalscorer - the midfield should be covering Bazeley, not the centre forward!! If that has to be the case, then Colin might just have possibly got it a teensy weeny bit wrong. Also, if Merson was knackered - and he was - what are substitutes for??
If Colin Lee thinks that the supporters behind him are "budding Alex Fergusons", "idiots" and "know nothing about football", is he implying that Sir Alex is a bit of a thicko?? Surely not! I'm sure we are all frustrated today, with good reason, but all managers spend their lives receiving advice from time to time, so what's the big deal? I doubt very much whether any one on this site agrees with his tactical choices today. He just happened to hear a few conflicting opinions.

The truth is probably that he's just as frustrated with the board for withholding finance for Akinbiyi - if he is the one in mind. I'll tell Mr Roy one thing thoug, - the crowds won't keep coming if we don't get another forward! And this is before we get any injuries. Make your mind up, Geoff and Roy!

P.S. Wacker was "Man of the match" by a mile, not Merse. How many saves did he make?? And how many did Alexander have to make?? Nuff said.

By Stu (195.92.67.69) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 11:10 pm: Edit

Don, yes, both teams were down to 10 men. But, its so much easier replacing a forward than it is a defender.

At the end of the day, they were chasing the game. They were going to bring on a striker. Thus, we had to combat that by moving to a more defensive formation. Thats the nature of the game.

Only a 'fan' would advocate a more attacking method, as the fan thinks about scoring, the manager thinks about what is needed to win.

I for one think Lee's tactics were right. My only gripe was that I'd have brought Emblen for Corica and gone even more defensive to be honest.

By Walsall Supporter (82.37.192.112) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 12:01 am: Edit

Walker should of had MOM as I have already stated else where.

Have to say many fans left before the final whistle mainly cause of the worries about the Cardiff Fans.

I was in the Banks's stand Block D and for most of the match had the away fans looking across at us and giving us grief. One cardiff fan was totally up for trouble, his attitude kept my self and my sister in law occupied most of the match

The police where in Block F but seemed unaware to his foul mouth and attitude to the Walsall fans in block E

But I suppose some "fans" need this!

Hopefully we can make a difference against Derby, but yet again we will have our lot chanting against Junior!! Cracking!

By Fish (81.132.107.159) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 12:12 am: Edit

I don't agree with the criticism of Merson, smacks a bit of the tall poppy syndrome ! He was excellent again today, but just as Jorge must find it frustrating having to lead the line on his own, I think that Merson must find it similarly so with so few options and outlets in front of him, just think of the damage he will do when he has two mobile forwards in front of him.

I agree with the comment earlier, if we are going to play with two strikers, lets do it now, Jorge + one of Birch / Bishop / Fryatt / Emblen.

Let's not get too negative either, despite two points lost...this is a much bettter team than last year, it really does have the potential to finish well in the top half once CL completes the squad and gets to know his best team. True, team building should have been complete by now but the signing of Ritchie is another piece in the jigsaw, and what an outstanding player he looks, confirmation that a squad of real quality and talent is being assembled.

In my view, in addition to outstanding performances from Merse and Ritchie and MoM, Jimmy, there were other good performances from Corica, Hay and the much criticised Roper, he looked much more comfortable today.

Crap ref though, although Zigor's sending off was justified (he did kick Lee), pity he missed the handball that released Whalley to score the equaliser.

By andy (195.92.168.169) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 12:27 am: Edit

thought hay had a good game. walker out standing, richie promising and merson and samways class acts

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.33.12) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 01:02 am: Edit

Having just watched the incident on sky. I would just like to congratulate Zigor on being a stupid Spanish tw*t and costing us the match.

By freda (195.93.33.12) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 01:13 am: Edit

Spot on Don.If Merson was with Stoke or Cardiff, he'd do some serious damage imo.


By Exile (203.98.50.22) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 02:50 am: Edit

Sounds like we just lost out on the points, and that the pre-match comments (see older CCFC thread) regarding the referee were absolutely spot-on. What a g!t.

Not saying we don't need a striker, but we're still a good side, and there's no doubt we have already proved we've got the wherewithall to hold or own against the rest this season, so there's no need to be despondent about the way the results are going. Sooner or later we'll find our feet as a team - and a lot of the squad are new this season (again), which means that while we'll be able to keep our end up until we get that extra man, we'll be better when we have him. Don't forget we're shipping less than a goal a game, which is another turn-up for the books!

Expectations high, not low, mean we're all getting "antsy" about not winning, but the main thing is, we've only lost one game this year so far. Points are coming in, and to what extent they're vital at the end of the season (promo or relly!) depends on us plugging away while we're missing a piece of the jigsaw, and CL finding that missing piece as soon as he can.

Almsot finally - our current points per game average of 1.2 usually means safety, so we only need a little extra to turn that into the mid-table obscurity we'd like.

Finally, I'm still very confident we'll be very safe. my third-hand review of the game (god, you lot don't know what it is like to watch the Saddlers vicariously!!) says that Birch didn't impress, Leitao couldn't impress, Merson tried hard to impress and Wakker seriously impressed. I've every confidence in CL to sort us out with a striker (Fryatt as an interim - why the hell not?) as soon as he can, and every confidence in the team to keep on playing together to grind out the results in the meantime. OK we're not top, but we're not bottom either. 14th in the league right now is good enough for me, especially with positive goal difference and only three teams currently above us that are a surprise (Wigan, Stoke, Crewe). About right, I think.

Cheers all
Exile




By Neil Ravenscroft (82.37.184.146) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 09:15 am: Edit

I'm with Stu on this one, I'm afraid. Merson holding the ball was the right tactic.

Cardiff were not in the game until the red cards and the shouts at Lee were at half time, so what were they moaning about?

Lee was yelling and waving at Birch (and others) to get forward, as we were defending too deep.

Lee's tactical mistake was to not bring on Emblen to stiffen up midfield, probably for Corica.

Birch is too slow at this level.

MoM was Hay or the outstanding Ritchie, as Wacker only had to play for 30 minutes. Before that, he was redundant.

Zigor's moment of madness cost us that gaem, as Lee was bound to go sooner or later, as he was getting more and more frustrated at being so well marshalled.

Roll on a striker! Jorge should have scored first half from Merson's exquisite pass.

By LarryHagler (81.134.26.83) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 09:59 am: Edit

I'm still totally gutted. All the defence including Wakka were outstanding yesterday, with the exception of Zigor.
I agree that we had to defend our lead but tactically we got it wrong. For some reason the midfield ended up playing so deep that it was like a flat back 8. CL should have bought on emblen for Corica to shore the middle up and break forward when we had the ball. I also have had enough of Birch - he's a lazy Basta*d. Merson was quality, and i feel sorry for Jorge, but heads up and i hope the injury to Jorge which looked like a pull or strain is not to bad, thats wot happens when you do the running for 2 blokes.

By Stu (195.92.67.75) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 10:26 am: Edit

But I don't think the midfield was sitting deep due to tactical instructions.

Yes, we do play deeper, but we have to do that to play the style of play we do, as you need the team close together to play a short passing game.

But, there were many times yesterday when Lee and Halsall were yelling at the team to push out when they cleared a ball, but the team just sat back. If the players don't use their brain and push out, then you can't blame Lee can you?

By Geordiesaddler (195.92.194.17) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 10:45 am: Edit

Point is Stu people love to blame Lee. They forget we have lost only once this season, despite having only one first team striker on the books. Its patently obvious with another decent striker we would be a really useful team, yet as usual Lee is being asked to do a job with one hand tied behind his back. Just look at the players Cardiff have signed, yet did they beat us yesterday?

By VeryBlue (213.122.7.162) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 02:00 pm: Edit

Enjoyed the day.....first visit to Bescott. Nice, decent fans.

Would have been a trevesty if Cardiff had to leave with no points, having contributed much to a generally good match. Always nice to have a twit of a ref, as it allows both sets of supporters to vent their spleen!

Draw was about right..... even though your keeper was MOM.

Merson still looks quality, but generally, he was not involved in the game. Surely, with his talent, the ball has to pass through him more often in build up's. He was frozen out of the action for too long. Samways still looks to be an annoying little tart!

Of the City players, Kavanagh pulled most of the strings, Lee was a handfull, Earnie disappointing.

And of course, City away support was pretty vocal.

As I say, nice day out.

Good luck guys.

By Jorge14 (195.93.33.12) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 02:44 pm: Edit

I merely mentioned Jimmy Davis from the PoV of our deal with Manchester United, which was signed before Davis was commited to Watford, in the same way as with Colin Heath at Antwerp etc.

VeryBlue, you got it spot on with that. Of course, Cardiff's reputation preceeds them across the country, but, as the first time I've been to a Cardiff vs. Walsall, I was pleasantly surprised to confirm to myself that you aren't all about intimidation and violence, but you also care about football. Which is so unlike most of the "hooligans" around the leagues, including the extremely small minority at our club.

On Zigor, after seeing the incident on Sky and Central, he should definately have gone, however, from sitting in Q block for the duration of the match, Lee had caused Zigor no end of trouble. He had been spitting and lashing out at Aranalde, and in all honesty, from as neutral a view as I can see it from, Lee should have gone 5 or so minutes before the sending off when he SPAT at Zig.

Q block also gave a great view of Jorge's chance in the first half when put through by Merse. He should have bagged, and had he had the 15 minutes rest he did before his goal, he would have scored then. It's a shame that a striker has to put in 90% effort in his own hald and the rest in his own. So much so that he lacks pace and first touch when he gets an opportunity.

Agree with Stu, without bringing up the Q block again, Lee and more often than not Halsall were going BALISTIC on the touchline telling us to push out. Sad thing was that when the ball did get to Merse, and he did use that footballing brain to hold up the ball, he had no one in support, with Birch ambling about on the left wing instead of making a beeline to the box.

Point was fully deserved, and we were mighty lucky to survive with a point. Can't help feeling a little "pig-sick" about it all though.


By MarkW (212.56.110.53) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 03:04 pm: Edit

I can only imagine that CL insists that George plays at right back! It can't be from chioce.Which other team in any of the divs has it's only striker at right back most of the time?
We will never score any tap inns or close range headers.CL deserves all of the critisism he got from yesterday.The last 30 mins was desparate!

By Stu (195.92.67.67) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 03:36 pm: Edit

MarkW, use your brain. It is obvious why he has to cover that area and it amazes me that people don't see that. if you've played football or watched football for a decent length of time you'll know exactly why.

To put it simply, Merson doesn't have the legs to do the defensive work, thus Jorge has to do that running for him. So, when we're on the defensive, Merson stays forward and Jorge drops in on the right to provide some cover as Corica pulls over to the left, with Samways and Osborn sitting centrally.

Is this not bleedin obvious? Otherwise, we'd be outnumbered down the flanks.

By ANother Saddler (213.122.59.118) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 04:12 pm: Edit

Jorge is basically doing what Merson would be doing. Corica and Merson would normally be expected to cover the flanks but because Merson hasn't got the legs to do that, and because he holds the ball up much better than Jorge could, Jorge drops deep. Once we get another striker in I'm not sure how we'll do it though, because I'd imagine we'd play with Merson behind two forwards, so will both forwards drop deep? The trouble is when leaving one striker up front like that the rest of the team must bomb forwards to help out but sadly that doesn't happen. Too often the wing backs seem to be strolling forwards rather than exploiting any space down the flanks. Lee has said time and time again that players need to be bombing forwards to make our tactics work. This is why he went ape •••• at Birch because Merson was holding the ball up well and Birch failed to get forwards quickly enough. To be honest on occasions we opened Cardiff up a little once we'd scored, and even after the sendings off, we made some chances. Everyone seems to have forgotten the two chances Merson had, once he curled one just over and once he hit oen at the keeper... the trouble is the midfield retreated far too deep as the minutes went by. The one thing I think Lee did wrong yesterday was put Birch on... I'd have put a midfielder on. They could still have attacked but would have given the midfield more shape and solidity.

By Stu (195.92.67.69) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 04:24 pm: Edit

I think the return of Jamie Lawrence will be very helpful to this style.

Lee has stressed the need for players to come from deep and Lawrence's pace and style of play means he'll burst from deep and go past that final man. I think Merson will benefit from the runs Lawrence will make.

By Cal's a saddler (81.131.139.24) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 04:40 pm: Edit

WHat's that? Jamie Lawrence is coming back? Are you sure??
God forbid his broken toe has healed!!
Hallelujah

By An idiot (212.56.110.53) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 05:19 pm: Edit

Stu, Jorge will never be effective playing with this system, it may be obvious to both you and CL but to the rest of us 'idiots' it's only going to end with Jorge losing confidence and us left with no effective strikers.

By ANother Saddler (213.122.59.118) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 05:33 pm: Edit

How on Earth do you know that this system will result in Jorge losing confidence? It's generally accepted that Jorge is a hard working forward as apposed to a clinical finisher so I'm sure he's not concerned playing this way. He's still scoring goals (and getting plenty of chances coming his way still) and once he gets a partner the system should work excellently. I'd say the system is working pretty effectively now... one defeat in 5 games, and in every home game we have looked capable of taking the points, getting another striker will see us turn performances into good results. I'd be worried if we were losing every week and Jorge wasn't scoring, but bloody hell, if you want to support a struggling team, go and watch Derby...

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.33.12) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 06:04 pm: Edit

Well said!

By LarryHagler (81.134.26.83) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 06:11 pm: Edit

Just wondering how 'this system' will work if we bring in another striker to help Jorge and we get Lawrence back fit. I feel Corica will be dropped but who else ?

By Pelsall Saddler (195.92.168.165) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 06:32 pm: Edit

Just a word of praise for Roper, who, after a game at Crewe, where he looked distinctly uncomfortable, turned in a much more competent performance. It was obvious that the back three had been instructed not to pass it around so much, but get it forward, or to the wing backs.
Roper had the better of the extremely awkward Alan Lee for the first half, (apart from when Lee once turned him inside out).
Second half Lee drifted on to the right, where it was obvious he was up to all his dirty tricks with Zigor. It was only a matter of time before one, or both of them was sent off.
Dissapointing, but on the balance of play, a fair result.
A free weekend next week, hopefully a new striker in place before the Derby game.

By Jorge14 (195.93.33.12) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 07:43 pm: Edit

Stu, ANother, I agree totally with what you have said above. Great posts.

I think Lawrence would have made a lot of diffence at the start of this season. At the moment, Baze is doing his usual great attacking work, but as there is no pace in the midfield, he is getting exploited at the back, which is why Jorge is back at right back.

Any talk of Jorge loosing confidence due to this is absolute tosh. We've seen when Jorge lost confidence under Graydon, and that was when he got dropped. Under Jorge, I think confidence comes from playing, and Jorge is under no pressure in that department.

MarkW, what you said about Jorge not scoring tap ins or close range headers...How can you say that, or have you not seen 2 of his 3 goals this season? Against Albion he scored a close range tap in, and yesterday he scored a close range header...Hmmm...sort of makes that post sound like rubbish doesn't it?

Finally, after my criticism of Ropes this last week, I think it's only fair that I pay credit to him. He had Earnshaw in his pocket. There you go Sheff...lol

By popperpancake (81.77.15.32) on Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 11:22 pm: Edit

Personally i have no problem with the way the team is set up to play at the moment. Lee is picking the best players at the club IMO. I've been thinking that Birch possibly deserved a chance but after saturday i'm no longer thinking that! I agree about the people above saying jorge is just doing his job by getting back when he is needed. Ideally i don't think CL would have him doing this, but needs must. I, however didn't think the way we played after the sendings off was correct. Not in the fact that we tried to protect the advantage we had, but how we went about it. We certainly weren't playing 4-5-0 as as people above have said, merson played up top on his own. But we didn't keep possession as well as we should have done, merson held it up excellently when it was played in "properly" to him, but too often we hoofed it up to him. And i don't particularly accept this "it's harder to adjust to the loss of a defender than the loss of an attacker". It's being quoted above as if it's a well known football fact. It's not. Perhaps bringing on wrack to play at left wing back would have offered less disruption than switching to a back 4? I dunno. Anyway it's gone now. Let's hope we get a striker in b4 our next game. At the moment we look less like scoring than last season i think (a new striker would hopefully/probably change this as we certainly have better creative players at the club now), but we also look less like conceding. Similar players in defence, but we look much more solid i think. Sum up of the seasons start...not bad, not great. We'll get better i think.

By Stu (212.137.33.208) on Monday, September 01, 2003 - 08:19 am: Edit

An Idiot, if this system isn't working for Jorge but he has scored 3 goals in 6 matches. Then I can't wait to see how many goals Jorge will score if we find a system that works for him.

How on earth can a striker have scored 3 in 6 in a system that doesn't work for him? Not to mention, he has scored 3 in 6 and missed good chances against both Stoke and then earlier on during the Cardiff match.

Yup, definitely a confidence killer for him. No chances, no goals, no nothing...

By Bristol Saddler (217.161.104.2) on Monday, September 01, 2003 - 10:59 am: Edit

P*ssed off and disappointed like you all! But Cardiff deserved their point and had it not been for Walker (defo MOM and in team of the day in News of the World) we would have lost.

I am not a Ziggy fan, but thought he was playing really well, until he f*cked up and got himself sent off the spannish donkey and that changed the game!

Ritchie was class and Roper/Hay had good game's too and CL, like Bonser, my mum and shergar all know we need strikers and preferbaly a brace of em!

Can't believe fans sl*g Merson off, the guy is not paid to run around the pitch like a madman, but add class and he does that! Although Birch is paid to run around the pitch like a madman and put the work in! The bloke is crap! Total crap!

Why wasn't Fryatt even on the bench? Also CL got it well wrong not bring Matias or Wrack when Ziggy was off!

But I am not worrying as I am convinced CL will have a striker by the Derby game! But I will be worried if he's a just more experienced Birch!



By Fish (81.132.52.105) on Monday, September 01, 2003 - 02:43 pm: Edit

I agree, I thought Zigor was doing OK up to the sending off. Having seen it again fancy getting sent off for a silly, pathetic girly kick, if he was going to get red-carded he should have at least lamped the b*stard or done some sort of damage to him.

By Mr Ferguson (81.135.38.6) on Monday, September 01, 2003 - 07:59 pm: Edit

A few "budding Alex's" on here today!! Go wash your mouths out! I'm sure that Colin is as frustrated as we are, but HE can decide to give Fryatt a chance. HE picked Birch to play like a wassock. Exile to Scotland beckons. I would point out however, that Merse was playing up front and had no compunction to take on defensive duties at right back. There are other mid fielders on the pitch, and if Jorge really is needed at right back, then I'm an idiot and know nothing about football and me name's Alex and our Col has regrettably and regretfully got the system wrong! Sorry, Col!

By Zigor Fan (194.117.133.182) on Monday, September 01, 2003 - 10:05 pm: Edit

Fish, my thoughts exactly when I saw it again on the box.

By Sharky61 (217.42.88.127) on Tuesday, September 02, 2003 - 08:34 pm: Edit

Fish, best post i've seen on here for ages. Totally agree with your sentiments.