Crewe (a) - League - 25th August 2003

[Andy]

By Steve Roy (81.77.141.87) on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 09:43 pm: Edit

Crewe 1 Walsall 0

By Exile (203.167.253.205) on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 09:46 pm: Edit

B*gger....

Taste of defeat still same as last year, perhaps a little more bitter given opposition.

Onward and upward though! Hopefully a striker soon to help out with attacking duties, as from the BBC service it would appear we had a lot of play with no reward. Then again maybe we've got them already but don't play them together....

Cheers all
Exile


By Realistic Saddler (217.44.83.72) on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 09:56 pm: Edit

Without a decent striker, Lee is in danger of throwing all of his hard work away.
He knows it, the Board knows it, the fans know it. The results and the performances since the Baggies "wonder goals" show prove it.
Looks like a hard slog ahead with a team of pretty midfielders and a powderpuff attack.


By Driller (218.102.23.27) on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 10:30 pm: Edit

Oh for David Zdrilic now!

By All I need is you (213.122.116.47) on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 10:52 pm: Edit

We had to lose some time :-s

Plus point from Radio WM was the performance of Paul Ritchie.

It will be interesting the comments of the guys that have been. How at fault was Hay for the goal?

WM also estimates around 2000 Walsall fans at the game. Well done lads!

By Cannock (62.31.216.240) on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 11:17 pm: Edit

In all honesty, as fortuitous as the goal was with the almighty cock up from Hay, Crewe were the better team. We started off well for the first 20 minutes but for all our possession didn't really threaten. Crewe gradually took control and in the words of Dario Gradi Crewe played with youth, pace, skill and mobility. I whole heartedly agree. We, on the other hand were predictable, static and were totally lacking up front. Ashton, Cochrane and Jones were all superb for Crewe tonight. Our MoM i thought was Ritchie, strong in the air, good in the tackle and extremely comfortable on the ball. What is missing is pace and movement up front. We have none and it needs addressing urgently.

Bitterly disappointed.

By The Rent Collector (195.93.33.12) on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 11:25 pm: Edit

Normal Service has being resumed!

By RushallSaddler (195.182.163.17) on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 11:34 pm: Edit

Agree with your comments Cannock, I was very disappointed with tonites performance, thats 3 matches now that we haven't really looked like scoring or even creating clear cut chances, some pretty approach play up to the half way line, but thats as good as it got, we've got no cutting edge or pace in our play and we don't get enough bodies into the box to worry the defenders. Merson needs two forwards in front of him.

I thought their goal was an own goal by Roper who knocked it in while trying to hack it off the line. Unfortunate on Hay who had played really well in keeping Ashton relatively quiet, but we will keep trying to play the ball out of defence instead of safety first, our corners were really crap, I think the keeper caught every one without any challenge. Jorge seems to have lost his confidence and looks a yard or two short of pace at the moment, and he just can't hold the ball up for any length of time to wait for support to arrive from our aging midfield.

Pedro should just be kept for a cameo 20 minutes sub appearance at home, he simply cannot play 90 minutes especially away from home, Birch came on too late and should have replaced Matias not Jorge, but Birchy is crap as well. Stefan Oakes should be in from the start especially as Osborn seems to have gone off the boil.

I also think we need two forwards not one, we had three last season and struggled at times.
I really hope we can get at least one forward in by the weekend two would be better because Cardiff look like they are on fire and with an estimated 3,000 to back them, I can see us losing again.
Another bitterly disappointed.

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.33.12) on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 11:41 pm: Edit

I like you all feel very down. After the signing of Merson and the performance against West Brom everything seemed to have us all in a dream world. Now having taken 2 points from Coventry, Sjoke and Crewe you have to start to worry.
Please, Please, Please give us a striker before Saturday. I feel sorry for Jorge as he is not the sort of striker that you can play up front by himself, his confidence will get lower and lower if this continues.
Cardiff didnt look all that brilliant against Derby. The first goal was meant as a cross, the third goal was 20 yards off side. I didnt see a lot that would worry me on Saturday.
Just give me a striker, why on earth did we let Zdrilic go!

By Wyrley Saddler (193.113.240.42) on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 11:47 pm: Edit

Only one team at the races for the first 20 mins, the Saddlers playing some really great footie but nothing to show in front of goal. We are desperatly lacking up front and Mr Bonser really does need to release the purse strings before Merse and Samways get really pissed off. Samways again was brill, did not waste a ball and Richie had a sound debut, perhaps Ropers permanent replacement. Birch is not the answer, he is not even conference standard let alone 1st div. A knackered Jorge is better than Birch, No more Birch please colin. God, hope we get some one in up front for Saturday. Great following, but how long until we all get really fed up of the same story, pretty football but nobody to finish it all off.

By PGtips (62.31.219.51) on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 11:55 pm: Edit

CL was tricked into using Pedro again. Following a succesful home cameo he was appalling tonight. Ritchie was promising. Interesting to see he was kept on and Roper went off when a defender was sacrificed to play Wrack.

I was dissapointed to see Jorge go off for Birch. they need to play together. Birch may not look like scoring goals but he can hold the ball up and lay it off to players running onto him. This is something Jorge is failing to do at the moment with the result that balls forward just come straight back at us.

CL knew he had merson and possibly expected to have Junior this season. I think he has instructed the ball to be played out from the back as there was no point in punting it out of our half. On the occaisons we did this last year we lost possession immediatly with Junior fouling his marker every time he went to control an aerial ball. Trouble is if you mistime a pass or overun the ball you are in deep trouble and Danny Hay was caught out tonight.

I'd also like to praise Crewe whose front men gave us a lesson in how to move off the ball. Oh for the same movement in our side. They were fast and pacy all over the park and attacked and defended as a unit. Our passing was usually accurate but so slow and predictable that crewe had 7-8 men behind the ball by the time we crossed the half way line or when it did come forward it was easy to play an offside trap against.

By Cannock (62.31.216.240) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 12:06 am: Edit

Childish as it may seem, but tonights game was crying out for pace and trickery. Crewe had it in abundance with their youngsters. I would have thought it an ideal opportunity to give Fryatt a go. He looked good for his 20 mins against Blues and tonight we needed a player with a spark. We didn't have it. Young Cochrane (17 i think) was fantastic. Unfortunately for Jorge, he has nobody to play with and has to try to do it all on his own. When the guy is found at left back and right back how the hell can we expect him to run upfield to score as the only striker? I know he has a good engine but my God, it's taking the pee a bit.

Crewe, good value for the win. Their youth, pace and enthusiasm won in the end.

By Cannock (62.31.216.240) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 12:08 am: Edit

Excellent post PGtips. Summed it up perfectly.

By sj (195.93.33.12) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 08:09 am: Edit

All the above summaries are good other than no mention of the poor tactics and ugly formation. Playing three centre halves looks ponderous and is very defensive. Roper cannot play in this type of formation because he can't play football. Again when given the ball tonight he looked lost I saw Merson shaking his head with Ropers poor distribution. Roper cant play the type of football we are playing now. But I think he could do a job agaist sides like Stoke in a flat back four where a bit of muscle is needed.

Lee is just to cautious we do need two strikers but I fear that Lee will stick to this ponderous formation regardless. Why did he not change things tonight it was clear to all there that the tactics were naff. After the initial twenty mins. Pedro and Roper should have been off giving Birch and Oakes a good run out. I really don't understand why he plays this way he does not need to grind out results he should get up and at them.
Echoing the above, the positives were the vision of Merson and the composure of Richie.

By cat3 (203.218.153.172) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 08:38 am: Edit

Who was suppose to guard Kenny Lunt? I told he's premiership quality and should not be looked down at. How can we let the guy take a shot 20 yards out...

Well, we got to maintain our form and move on to beat Cardiff. This is really pathetic losing to Crewe. Out of all the teams, we got to lose to Crewe. I can see Vinny Samway is very important in our squad now. Without him on line-up, we are a bit off. Richie is very good. I hope he maintains his form day in and day out. We need to win... Ties are not good enough..... We need to win Cardiff and continue the momentum spree... Go Go Sads! I gotta find more lucky charms... Where's that four leave clover now? We need all the luck we can get...

By cat3 (219.76.64.3) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 08:41 am: Edit

Grunchy.....

By Pico (195.93.33.12) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 09:04 am: Edit

Disappointing, after the promising start we made. Our second half peformance was poor. We lacked drive and ideas, which could have exploited Crewe's shaky defence.
I really wish we still had Zdrillic, but it is obvious he was let go because Colin thought Junior would be here. Look at the goals he is scoring for Aberdeen at the moment.
Richie was excellent. He will be a really good signing. Hay was also very good, before his mistake for the goal.
Our best player in the first half was Samways again. Always avaliable to recieve the ball, and hardly ever gives it away. Some of the balls in behind the Crewe defence Vinny played were fantastic, but we lacked pace up front to deal with them.
Merson must take some of the work load off Jorge. He is brilliant when he has the ball, but we all knew when he signed that's the type of player he is.
As everyone on this thread has posted. We desperately need a striker. Please please get one in for Saturday.

Ratings:

WALKER 8 Some excellent saves in the first half
BAZELEY 5 Poor final ball
ARANALDE 5 Again poor final ball when in good positions to cross
HAY 7 Was having solid game till mistake for goal
ROPER 6 strong in air and tackle, poor distribution. Typical Roper display
RICHIE 8 M.O.M Strong, good on the ball. Some excellent blocks.
SAMWAYS 7 Neat and tidy. Excellent first half, quiet in the second
OSBORN 6 Kept the midfield ticking
MATIAS 5 played in three differant positions. Looked lost. Dreadful final ball.
MERSON 7 Dangerous when he has the ball. Created openings.
LEITAO 5 Hard for him up top on his own. Must make the ball stick to him better.

Subs
WRACK 7 Full of running when introduced
BIRCH 6 On his own. Holds ball up well. Plays too deep.
EMBLEM 6 Too late to make an impression.





By Stu (212.137.33.208) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 09:17 am: Edit

Why do people keep saying that Zdrillic was 'let go'?

We offered him a contract, he chose to leave us, not the other way around.

Problem with being too pretty is you often get so 'caught up' in trying to play attractive football, that you forget the need to be direct at the same time.

By popperpancake (81.134.187.76) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 09:30 am: Edit

It's unusual for so many people to see the game in the same way! Crossing from bazeley, aranalde and matias. Jorge not holding it up. Need for another striker (if CL doesn't fancy birch, which he obviously doesn't, i'd let emblen play there, if only for the physical presence). We've played 3 teams i think we expected b4 the season to finish above, having seen these games i'm not so sure we will finish above coventry, stoke or crewe. A bloody striker would be a good start tho.

By Jorge14 (195.93.33.12) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 10:01 am: Edit

Disapointing is not the word for last nights performance. It was embarrassing. Merse was totally ineffectual apart from a couple of fantastically inspired balls. I think we could do with just maybe pulling Merse out for one away game. Give him a rest, give the team a rest from the "Merson factor" and play a straight 4-4-2.

Now, before I get slated, I'm not saying that Merson is cr@p, he is the best player to wear our colours and he has played 5 games, that says something about the man. But in all seriousness, he needs to start playing away from home. I was sitting next to a Man Ure fan in the second half last night, and he recognised that everything goes throught Merse and things that don't tend to fail. Unfortunately, if it comes down to dropping Osborn or Corica, I'd pick Ozzie, as COrica can give us something else in the middle at the moment.

Thought Paul Ritchie did very well against Crewe's tricky forward line and Danny Hay was probably the best player on the park before his mistake. Ropes, for some reason, looks totally out of his depth this season, a shadow of last season's performance.

Jorge looked poor, but I can't blame hit at all. He has no support and was immediately surrounded by 2 or 3 Crewe players, he was trapped and had zero support.

Aranalde was exposed by Crewe Alexandra. That is how pathetic his performance was last night. He has absolutely no position sense, as foremost he is a defender. When given the chance of going to 1 of 2 players, he invariably chose the masn which Ritch was about to pick up, leaving the wide man in acres of space on the right and leaving one of the centre backs standing doing nothing. Zigor wasn't our only week link last night, that was him and 7 or so others, but he was totally out of his depth. He can't attack and he can't defend...Julian Bennett proved against Birmingham that he can do both.

Baze had his worst game for Walsall by far. He was exposed and, like Aranalde, his final ball was poor and inaccurate. He looks strong at the back in every game, but like the 3 other defenders...and Zigor...he sat off the attackers too much for my liking.

2000 Walsall fans deserved better than last nights performance, but at least we know that normal service is resumed when we lose to Crewe!

By Jorge14 (195.93.33.12) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 10:05 am: Edit

I forget to speak about the striking situtation...

Jorge can't do anything up front at the moment. He is out marked and outpowered by 2 centre backs, an impossible situation for any striker but the very best. I know alot of Saddler's would hate another ex-Dingle, but Akinbyi is the man for us in my opinion. He would bag a sh!t load of goals, and who knows, someone might buy him for 5 million!

By Ulster Saddler (212.3.176.14) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 01:18 pm: Edit

Sounds like my fears after being over for a week and watching the Stoke and Cov games are being confirmed.

Jorge will get pi55ed off sooner or later coz he is getting no rewards for his hard work. We need another forward to play with him.

We do not create enough chances in a game to give us a chance of scoring a few goals.

Samways is quality and I would like to see Merson get involved a bit more - perhaps this would happen with 2 forwards in front of him.

We play alot of pretty but at times ineffective football.

When we are under pressure our defence do not get a breather as the ball comes straight back.

I predict the following:
Cardiff (lose)
Reading (lose)
Derby (win)
Ipswich (draw)
Millwall (lose)
Preston (win)
Gillingham (win)

which will give us a total of 15 points after 11 games which is not bad if that ratio can be maintained.

UP THE SADDLERS

By LarryHagler (81.136.228.104) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 02:07 pm: Edit

I can't beleive what I have just seen on Sky Sports news. I saw the Crewe goal, what was Roper doing ? He had time to hoof the ball out but just seemed to try and shepeard the ball back to a stranded Wacka wuth the goal wide open. I think maybe a change for Saturday. Also we as everyone knows are desperate for a pacy striker, does the transfer deadline that ends this week affect us ? If so i think were in the •••• unless CL or Greedy Bonser put ther hand in there pocket.

By Geoff Whiting (195.92.168.175) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 02:12 pm: Edit

Not bad ? I think 15 points after 11 games would be a dire return, to me it would be a hopeless disappointment if that's all we can get from this squad.

We must look to get two players up front ahead of Merson and play a more positive game - Christ it seems like we're playing to avoid defeat, not to win, and that's not ambitious enough given the players we have.

Can do better, MUST do better !

By Jorge14 (195.93.33.12) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 03:23 pm: Edit

Agree Geoff, that would be relegation form.

Larry, don't start abusing Geoff Bonsor. It's been done and its been proved how pathetic the reasoning behind that was. He has saved this club with prudent financial management. Simple as that.
Neither is it right to criticise Lee for anything but his tatics over the last three games. Merse is not a forward. What Lee has been doing well is his efforts in the market. As we've read in the media, he has been turned down by numberous players who really didn't need to accept that extra grand or two in the wage packet. But you really can't blame them. Unfortunately, we can't compete financially with the "big boys" and never will be able to.

By LarryHagler (81.136.228.104) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 03:43 pm: Edit

I have not critcised CL but at some stage we or Bonser (Of whom i dont share the same passion as you Jorge14,knowing him personally) will have to go for it simply because we would lose out by playing second div footy, but hey still being a profitable club.
I think what we have achieved with the signings this summer is amazing but will come for nothing if we dont put the final piece in the jigsaw. CL has created certain expectancy now with supporters, please Saddlers sign a decent striker.
I hear Burnley are intrested in taking Crouch from Villa.

By Neil Ravenscroft (62.172.127.2) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 03:49 pm: Edit

More fool them - personally, I'd rather have a footballer.

By Dave Roe (217.37.14.235) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 04:31 pm: Edit

I can't believe anyone would be happy with 15 points from 11 games. Is that all the pre-season signings have amounted to, finishing a couple of places higher than last year ? If so, it's hardly been worth the effort.

I'm trying not to sound too pessimistic so early in the season, but where is the urgency, passion or inventivness ? We fall to pieces as soon as we reach the 18 yard box. Lee is far too cautious. We are happy to knock the ball around midfield and wait for an opening to create itself. That's fine under some circumstances but we were doing it at 1 - 0 down on Saturday. At home we should be constantly pressing teams back, especially bog-standard teams like Stoke.


By hullsaddler (213.249.172.203) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 04:32 pm: Edit

See the report on official site says "killer instinct up front was lacking". Let's hope that CL acts then.

By popperpancake (81.134.187.76) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 04:34 pm: Edit

Dario Gradi reckons last nites performance was up with the best since he has been at the club! There's a link to his comments on the rivals message board. Ritchie played well i thought...altho a ridiculous challenge in the second half.

By Wyrley Saddler (193.113.240.55) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 07:54 pm: Edit

I said at the match that Roper should have hoofed the dam ball away cuz thats the only thing he does right in hoofing the ball any where.But after seeing it on T.V Roper is a disgrace to us. I think Ropers days are surely numbered with the arrival of Ritchie, he's way out of his depth this season.
By the way Crewe splashed 150 grand on a player today, but they are such a bigger club than us and can afford to splash out. Disgrace Bonser, give C.L. some cash for a striker before our season goes tits up.

By rugeleysaddler (81.107.14.98) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 07:57 pm: Edit

I thought Crewe played very well last night- oh for some of their pacey younfg forwards in our squad!

I have a few points to make:

1.PEDRO- hopefully that finally explodes the myth. He is a division 2 standard player who is tricky enough to cause a little bit of trouble when brought on as a late substitute. Last night he just looked completely bewildered.

2. GEORGE: Not sure whose to blame but George was playing his usual full pitch game in a match when he was the sole striker. What was he doing in the right back position at times during this game. I am not impressed as some maybe by his work rate but disapointed at his naiviety.

3. FORMATION: we seem to play far better with a 4-4-2 than the 5-3-2. Why don't we start the game like this.

4. STRIKERS- We need one. What surprises me is that CL had stated at one point that it was more important to get another defender.

5. ROPER: Oh dear what has happened.

I also think there was some positives:

1. JIMMY- another great performance with a couple of Premiership class saves.

2. RITCHIE: agree with all of what others have posted. He looks good.

3. HAY: The goal was his only mistake I think after Merson he is our best summer (re)signing by a mile.

4. NATURE OF PERFORMANCE: This was a very bad performance. Certainly the worst of the season but not in the "our players didn't look like they could be arsed" which typified some of our worst matches last season.

5. PIES: I quite liked the Crewe Balti Pie. Very tasty.






By Neil Ravenscroft (82.37.184.146) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 08:16 pm: Edit

Rugelysaddler, you answered your own question. Why did we need another centre back?

"ROPER: Oh dear what has happened"

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.33.12) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 09:04 pm: Edit

I would play Roper any day. Funny, that certain people have such short memories isnt it. The bloke makes a few mistakes and the people above start to have a go.
PATHETIC thats what you are. The bloke was brilliant last season and he has an average start to the season and people start to have a go. Talk about being two faced fans.

By Me2 (195.92.168.173) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 09:11 pm: Edit

Sheffield, we are moving on to better things. Roper is a great player, but I feel he is part of the the Walsall "old school" so to speak.

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.33.12) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 09:39 pm: Edit

Absolute rubbish. Honestly, you should show a bit of faith and trust. I cannot believe I am hearing such absolute cr*p from certain people on this board.

By Me2 (195.92.168.173) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 09:50 pm: Edit

Each to their own Sheffield, but you are a getting a little abusive to your own here. Think you should take a moment to calm down

Nobody (well I am not) is having a go a Roper, he is a great player and has a lot to offer Walsall. BUT, whats the point of keeping him in the team if we have better players available that suit our style of play/tactics? Need to remove yourself emotionally sometimes.

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.33.12) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 09:58 pm: Edit

Utter cr*p. All this trying to play football out from defence is great if you have the players to do it, but we dont.
On Saturday, the number of times not only Roper but also Hay and Emblen nearly got caught out was unbelieveable.
We dont have the players to do this and I dont feel we need to do it everytime anyway. A receipe for disaster, mark my words.

By Fish (81.132.248.119) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 10:24 pm: Edit

Driller said, 'Oh for David Zdrilic now!'.....I'm not so sure about that, he's now injured and could be out for some time.

Couldn't go last night but have seen the goal a few times,I'm surprised no one has commented on what to me looks like a clear foul on Roper, who had his legs taken by the scorer.


By Jorge14 (195.93.33.12) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 10:24 pm: Edit

Sheff, you called me blinkered with Pedro? Dear me... As I've stated, I voted for Rope's two years in a row for Player of the Year, I was his biggest fan when other people were slagging him off a couple of years ago. Presumably including yourself sir.
However, I was very surprised to see that Emblen was dropped in favour of Ropes. You say Rope's has made a couple of mistakes? He has looked completely out of his depth, his distribution has been worse than usual and he has been completely exposed. It is only fair to HIM that Colin pulls him out for a couple of games to get his bearings back and then he can come back in better and refreshed. Sheff, why call other people's opinions "utter cr@p" and then when some one threatens your opinion, it is wrong? I presume the "certain people" include myself, Sheff?

On the football point, I think we do have the players. Ritchie looks composed on the ball last night, Emblen we know can play a little, and but for his mistake, Danny Hay was rock solid and went on at least 2 cracking runs through the middle. We know what Baze can do, and I'd hope you agree that Zigor is out of his depth. Or am I being blinkered due to my dislike for Zig-Zag?

Should we go route 1, Sheff? Then we could accomadate Ropes, bring back Richard Green. Perfect. Then we can bypas our strongest suit, the midfield, and send it up to out 1 striker, Jorge. Sounds good. That's a recipe for disaster pal.

So there you go, I hope once again I've answered your points and elaborated further. See Sheff, no getting past the "mighty" Jorge14! ;-)





By Stu (195.92.67.71) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 10:32 pm: Edit

Geoff, you say 15pts from 11 games would be a dire return?

15pts from 11 games, based over the season, would be about 63pts, which would put you circa 10th place...

Thus, I'd say 15pts from 11 games would be what we should be expecting.

I really must say I'm so surprised at the sudden panic/whining/moaning that people are showing;

1) Albion was always going to be the 'exception
2) Coventry = a good team is a team that can play badly and still get points. CLEAN SHEET
3) Stoke = poor first half and still took a stroke of luck for them to score. We played properly in the 2nd half and mullered them.
4) Crewe = By all accounts, played well but lacked a cutting edge but still had chances to score. Took a mistake to grant them their goal.

Not too sure what there is to worry about, add a striker with presence and I think its quite promising.

By rugeleysaddler (81.107.14.98) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 10:34 pm: Edit

Roperd id have a great season last season and it is for that reason that Lee is contiuing to pick him. Fair play to Lee for sticking with him. I agree that he should be allowed to dine out on last season for a while. However if he continues to play like he did last week when there are better defenders in form then it can't be long before he must/will be dropped.

I don't see why that is being two faced. My only concern is to see Walsall put out their best possible side and win.

Roper raised the bar and deservedly won player of the season. I voted for him and posted to that effect on this site at the time. To point out that he has had a shocking start to the season is not crap it is just honest.

By rugeleysaddler (81.107.14.98) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 10:40 pm: Edit

Jorge

Zigor is not out of his depth. He did have a terrible start to last night's game but recovered to a good (if not great by his own high standards) second half.

I hate it when he gets a slagging because I honestlty think he is one of our best players and appears to be getting better whilst certain of his team mates are going backwards- Pedro-- Jorge--Roper.



By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.33.12) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 10:44 pm: Edit

Jorge14, I am not your "pal" as you put it. I am saying we dont need to try and play pretty football all the time. Cant you read? Just read my post then if you can?
How can you compare Pedro and Roper? Answer me this then Jorge14. Name me one season in the first division where Pedro has proved himself over the entire season? Answer - Never, and never will. Now, Name me one season in the first division where Roper has proved himself over the entire season? Answer - Last season, and he has the necessary to do it this season as well.

By Stu (195.92.67.71) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 10:45 pm: Edit

Jorge, the reason Roper keeps his place and Emblen was dropped is that, frankly, Emblen had a mare on Saturday against Stoke... Roper didn't.

Football isn't always about pretty pretty nicey nicey, sometimes its about blood, snot and bollocks. When you play Gillingham, Stoke and others, you need someone who will run through a brick wall, who will hurl himself in front of the ball. For that, Ian Roper is the man. He is a bloody ox and a very good defender.

Let the other two play the ball out, but you always need blood, sweat and bollox in a side. If you don't have that, then when it gets to backs against the walls, its your team that'll be bent over first getting a good shafting from a more ruthless opposition.

By Jorge14 (195.93.33.12) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 10:46 pm: Edit

Zigor has no positional sense what-so-ever. When Ritchie had the right hand side striker in hand, Zig would still go to him, leaving the right winger in acres of space. Zigor was good going forward last night until his final ball, which was utterly crap. I agree he did improve last night, but high standards? ;-)

I think we should probably all realise that we are all dispointed by last night, no one had a good game but in my opinion Walker, Ritchie and, apart from his mistake, Danny Hay. On Saturday, both Zig and Ped were highly impressive, in my eyes. Last night was annoying, we were fine until the final ball, particularly from the wings. We were annoyed that Emblen and more importantly Birch didn't come on earlier to offer support, and personally, I was frustrated that Matt Fyratt didn't get a chance against the slow Crewe defence.

By nz hay fan (210.55.221.52) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 11:05 pm: Edit

just wondering, as from new zealand i never get to see danny hay play. hows he doing from a walsall fans perspective? does he fit in? i know hes good for tyhe national tean but wondering how he performs at that (1st division) level?

thanks,
danny hay fan.

By salop saddler (213.78.120.195) on Tuesday, August 26, 2003 - 11:23 pm: Edit

Hay is okay, but I doubt he'd be at Walsall if we hadn't been dropped 'in it' by Carbon at the start of the season.

As for Roper, I think the lad has all the abilities to go as far as he wants in the game. With the right coaching he'll be premiership class. He's a classic 'stopper' His one on one tackling abilities are first class, he's brave, he doesn't hide, and he supports his fellow defenders. The one fault, if such it be, is his ball playing from defence. That's coming, and when it does he'll be one of the best centre backs playing outside of the premiership.

By Killykeen (195.224.161.130) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 12:02 am: Edit

Colin Lee needs to sort a striker or commit to Fryatt and Jorge ( or Bishop)Merson was getting frustrated last night, not a good sign !!

One thing we are lacking in addition to a quality proven goal scorer, is a midfielder who can inject pace and go past the opposing midfield and commit the opposing defenders, opening up space and options for Jorge, not sure whether Lawrence will provide this, but could well add a lot of threat to the pretty stuff we are playing in the middle.

Support the calls to seize the moment, get the striker etc. but lets not lose sight of the improvements we have made, I am sure you all remember the grim days at Oxford and Cambride, under Graydon even in the play off season,we couldn't string two passes together,we have moved on light years,

Keep the faith !!

By Crewe Saddler (195.93.33.12) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 04:46 am: Edit

Yeah, but of ALL the teams to have lost too!

By Neil Ravenscroft (62.172.127.2) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 08:35 am: Edit

I still find it difficult to believe some ofthe stuff I'm reading here.

Let's make it clear that I wasn't criticising Roper, despite his low key start to the season, I was answering Rugeleysaddler's point about why Colin Lee thought we needed another centre back. It's because we couldn't manage with three in case of injury or loss of form.

Stu is quite right, of course, in that a return of 15 points from 11 games over the course of a season would leave us in 10th to 12th place, which is where I thought everyone said we would finish this season?

Colin Lee and everyone else knows we need a striker. 20 to 25 goals a season men don't come cheap and the most likely route is a loan. Has no one considered that Premiership sides are not going to loan anyone out to put them in the shop window until after the 31st August, as there might be an offer before then?

I might even be tempted to end this with "this is a marathon, not a sprint".

By Ian The Incredible (195.93.33.12) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 11:29 am: Edit

Neil,
The trouble is a lot of the posters on here are new to the club and arent really used to failure.The simple fact is we are one or ideally two front runners short and we need to offload Pedro and possibly Wracky asap.To say Roper is part of the old Walsall is ridiculous ok his start to the season has been quiet but this man is immense and certainly one of the reasons we are where we are now.In some ways we have over achieved with the signings of Merson and Richie who i believe will be a great signing for us,on our pityful budget.
I would rather do without a forward than us sign anybody,this seasons signings have raised the bar and frankly i dont see how we are going to afford a frontman in the class of the other signings,however we need one yesterday!
Your end cliche is quite correct however many people on here havent earnt their stripes,to understand how far we have come you must have endured Colchester Barnet Carlisle away,but then again we werent fashionable then.This is why i choose other sites to debate the stuff that matters with people who matter.

By Me2 (195.92.168.170) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 11:44 am: Edit

lol Ian, have been a season ticket holder more or less every year for 18 years, and I am only 24 now. I would say that I am not "new to the club" and have seen my fair share of good and bad times.

How is saying Roper is part of the old school ridiculous? You say Pedro and Wracky should be offloaded, again I would class these players as "old school" Walsall.

Do you really feel that Roper should start ahead of Emblen? Richie? or even Hay? Personally, repeat PERSONALLY, I do not think so. I do, however, feel that Roper should continue to be part of the squad in case of loss of form, injuries etc. What is the point of playing an off form player that cannot cope fully with the new style of football if we have others that fit the bill.

I honestly feel that some of you really are taking this far too much to heart.

By Neil Ravenscroft (62.172.127.2) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 11:46 am: Edit

I tend to agree with the comment about no striker, rather than just anyone, while we wait to see what comes available. I still think, if he really is one of the names, that Akinbiyi might still be worth the risk, as would Huckerby, however. A short term loan to see how someone works out, to be followed by a longer term one is also very much a possibility, but the comment about the transfer deadline I think comes into play then.

By Me2 (195.92.168.170) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 11:50 am: Edit

I am confident Colin wont sign a striker for the sake of it. We may have to wait a while, but I think when we get someone, it will be someone of quality.

By Ulster Saddler (212.3.176.14) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 01:25 pm: Edit

Thanks Stu (August 26 10.32pm). It was me that said 15 points from 11 games would not be bad particularly if we could keep that ratio up over the season. As for whoever said it would be relegation form should check their maths.

Also, do not forget, we have a thin squad and the posts on here would suggest that our subs are not up to Div 1 standard.

If we signed a forward to go with Jorge and played some good football and finished around 10th this year you would hear no complaints from me. That would be a significant improvement on last year and should give us a more solid base from which to progress.

For people who would not be happy with c65 points (is this really dire Geoff?), please tell me what they would be at least content with.

As for Roper, I am a bit surprised at the reaction and would certainly not hang him at the moment.

UP THE SADDLERS

By Dave Roe (217.37.14.235) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 01:35 pm: Edit

I'm surprised about the Roper crticism as well. I feel that he has been our most comptent defender so far this season. Both Hay and Emblen have made mistakes this season. I know Roper should have cleared the ball at Crewe, but my gut feeling is that Roper is by far the most consistent.


By DB (213.1.45.2) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 02:11 pm: Edit

Judging by the comments above, I must be the only one who thinks that Merson was outstanding against Crewe. He gave the ball away several times, granted, but apart from that his vision and breathtaking skill has surely rarely been seen in a Saddlers shirt. His first touch is to pass the ball, often quite a distance,however it comes to him whereas 99% of players need to control it at least once if not several times. Even when he looked to have overdone it, as in the second half run to the byline, he kept control and laid on a great chance for Jorge. Compare that performance with Coventry and there must be room for optmism. The trouble has rightly been identified as the lack of a second striker, giving him two options. How many times did the ball go to Jorge who was chasing with 2 if not 3 defenders. Please God send a direct runner like Akinbiyi to the Bescot.

Whilst obviously bitterly disappointed at the lack of an end product, surely we have a team which given the right formation, will push up the table. Ritchie was outstanding, another tremendous buy and Zigor will not have a worse night of crossing -- it was only his delivery which really let him down. Even Pedro was most let down by his final ball -- he had begun brightly, although will only give us cameos this season. Don't forget that in the first 15-20 minutes Crewe couldn't get the ball off us -- how many teams will play there and say that? We have Lawrence to come back, who might push on at pace and join the attack and score goals from midfield which won't come from Osborn/Samways as good as they are on the ball. We don't know what Oakes can do, but maybe he can do the same.

The real question for me is whether we play 4-4-2 (if we get another striker--I don't think Birch is up to it) or 4-3-1-2, with Merson in the hole. If the latter, then we have to rely on Zigor and Bazely getting up and down to provide width. 3 at the back is not doing us any favours with the quality, not just in our side, but our squad. I went to the game with a Stockport fan who thought that it was the best game of footballl he'd seen in ages and could only wish for the level of skill on display. But we must turn promise into goals and points beginning on Saturday.

By Neil Ravenscroft (62.172.127.2) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 02:39 pm: Edit

I'll disagree about Merson!.. His vision and breathtaking skill have <b>never<b> been seen in a Saddlers shirt. Not in my 40 years, anyway.

By Stu (212.137.33.208) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 03:26 pm: Edit

We must play a back three, as we tend to ship goals for fun otherwise.

This defence is effectively the same as the defence that shipped goals for fun last season. It wasn't until we went to a back 3 that we stopped leaking goals.

We'll be alright using a back 3 as soon as we've got that 2nd striker. You go 3-5-2 with Merson as the 3rd midfielder who bridges the link between midfield and attack. Similarly, Samways does a similar job between defence and midfield. I have never seen a player for Walsall who is available for a ball as often as Samways in. I go back to Darren Bradley for a player who did that, but he didn't do it half as well.

By Jorge14 (195.93.33.12) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 06:25 pm: Edit

"I am saying we dont need to try and play pretty football all the time. Cant you read? Just read my post then if you can?"

As, I think Geoff said, put the whisky away.

"How can you compare Pedro and Roper? Answer me this then Jorge14. Name me one season in the first division where Pedro has proved himself over the entire season? Answer - Never, and never will. Now, Name me one season in the first division where Roper has proved himself over the entire season? Answer - Last season, and he has the necessary to do it this season as well."

Sheff, as you asre being so childishly abusive, asking whether I can read, may I direct you to at least two of my posts. In which I say I have voted for Ian Roper in the Player of the Season comp for the past two years. So sir, can you not read? If I didn't think Roper had proved himself would I vote for him you fool? Answer - No. So shut up and get the facts straight. Sheff, it is really time to be quiet and stop embarassing yourself.

If Ian the Invincible's comments included myself, may I just introduce myself to the gentleman. I'm 15 years old, I've watched Walsall regularly (every home match) since 1997, and EVERY POSSIBLE away game for over a year, my first match coming in 1996. That means that near-enough half my life has included watching Walsall. In relation to Sheff, I feel that this allows me enough rights to voice my opinion as anyone else on these boards. That's purely my opinion though.

Stu, I agree, whilst we look more impressive in a 442, we do "ship goals for fun". And, as hypoctritical as this may sound to some, we have 4 of the best defenders in the division.

New Zealand Hay Fan, good to see you interested in football, as I know you are in a minority down under. I was pleased to meet two New Zealanders away to Gillingham last season who were there to see Danny Hay, sadly, as many who went will remember, he was just a sub, and soon after he came on he got injured. Shows great commitment to New Zealand football.

Finally, not at any time was Paul Merson coming under any criticism from myself. As I said, after 5 games he is arguably the most talented footballer in our history. Again repeating what I said, that says alot for Paul. However, him getting frustrated does nothing to help us, but that can't be leveled at him.

By Surrey Saddler (195.93.33.12) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 07:24 pm: Edit

Are you any good as a striker, Jorge 14? If so let CL know

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.33.12) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 07:59 pm: Edit

Jorge14 - As I stated before, try and read a post. I asked specifically "Name me one season in the first division where Pedro has proved himself over the entire season?", have you answered this question - NO.

By Exile (203.167.253.205) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 09:34 pm: Edit

Do you know better than Colin Lee, Sheff? If so you may be interested in the vacant hotseat down at Upton Park.

If Pedro hadn't "proven himself" as you put it, then I don't think we'd be seeing him on the pitch so regularly. Even a "bit part" player has a part to play, and IMHO Pedro does his very well. Try reading the balanced player profile on the TSFC site instead of relying on your jaundiced reminiscences.

Cheers,
Exile


By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.33.12) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 10:03 pm: Edit

Pedro has not proved himself Exile over a whole season in division one, thats what I am saying if you care to read my posts. I said "entire season". He is ok to bring on for the last 20 minues when the opponents defence are getting tired, but not an entire 90 minutes. Thats what CL has done the vast majority of the time if you happen to look, bring him on has sub.

By sj (195.93.33.12) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 10:35 pm: Edit

I hate to say this but Sheff is right. 20 mins the most as a sub.

By RushallSaddler (195.182.163.21) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 10:50 pm: Edit

As I said near the top of this thread Pedro is best kept for these brief cameo appearances especially at home with just the odd one away, but let's face facts, it will be his last season as a saddler me thinks.

I wonder if CL has thought about approaching Megson about Roberts, surely if he is not in their plans and no premiership team wants him why not let him play for us til January where he could help us beat quite a few of the Baggies main promotion rivals while putting himself in the shop window for the January transfer window and also saving the baggies a couple of grand a week in wages, just a thought, cos I can't see where this new forward (I'd prefer two though) is coming from.

By Andy W (203.166.29.69) on Wednesday, August 27, 2003 - 11:59 pm: Edit

Just read on the E&S that Roberts has had another bust up with the Baggies and with Lee Hughes fit again there is more chance of him being released. They name Blackburn as wanting him along with one or two other unnamed Premiership sides. If Blackburn were to take him then this would surely push Ostenstad further down the pecking order behind Cole, Yorke, Jansen and possibly Grabbi. Whether or not he's changed his mind or is still happy in their reserves rather than coming on loan to us is another matter.

By killykeen (195.224.161.130) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 12:15 am: Edit

Rumour in the Sandwell tonight is that Jason Roberts is talking to us!! Baggies won't farm him out to promotion rival ( they don't see us as that !!) and would take a part saving on salary to fund a pemiership loan signing to replace him,

Could be the beer talking,they also predicted a stuffing for us first game of the season !!

By Stu (212.137.33.208) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 08:13 am: Edit

Rumour, more like pie in the sky.

Everton and Blackburn have already had loan deals rejected. You think they'd let him go to us in a loan deal? At least Everton and Blackburn would pay his full wage, we'd pay a tiny fraction.

It is that sort of player we want though, strong, bustling, pacy and direct. Wonder if we can find a free transfer version of it? (Or were Asaba, Noel-Williams, Dyer and Bothroyd, the only free transfer versions you'd get...)

By rugeleysaddler (81.107.14.98) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 08:17 pm: Edit

People like Ian the Invincble really get on my nerves. Why do people need to have "earned their stripes" to have a valid opinion. To paraphrase Colin Lee, if you keep aiming to "just avoid relegation, sooner or later you wil be relegated". You think you are being a realist- Ian the Miserable Pessimistic Walsall Fan Man and Boy would be a more fitting handle.

New Zealander, Hay is absolute quality, not just "OK" as people have said above. He has had a great start to the season and I predict he will score about 5 goals from corners over the season awell.

I think Pedro is absolutely rubbish- he wouldn't be in the squad if he wasn't under contract. I can't remember which match it was last season when all the Burberry cap wearers were calling CL a Dingle for not bringing him on. I hope some of those idiots saw how useless he was on Monday.

By Fish (81.132.238.200) on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 09:06 pm: Edit

Roberts could do a thing or two for the Baggies....scoring goals for us against their promotion rivals.

With a bit of fine tuning and astute additions to the squad we could be a match for anyone.

By awatson (217.33.111.194) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 03:03 pm: Edit

RUSHALL OLYMPIC LADIES F.C.

WE TRAVELLED TO THE MATCH WITH SOME OF OUT LONG SUFFERRING WOLVES MATES WHO CAME ALONG TO SEE SOME GOOD FOOTY FROM SUPER SADDLERS!

WELL , WE STARTED WELL.....BUT THEN SOON FADED!
I HAVE TO SAY THAT ALTHOUGH I DO LOVE PEDRO, HE JUST ISN'T A 90 MINUTES PLAYER ANYMORE. HE LOOKED JADED AND OUT OF HIS DEPTH , THOUGH HIS EFFORT WAS AS ALWAYS TOP NOTCH.
WE DEFINATELY NEED A STRIKER..........SO WHY ARE WE AFTER AKINBYE ??????? HE IS A DONKEY ! USED TO BE GOOD .......ARGUABLY, BUT IS WELL PAST IT NOW. DON'T DO IT COLIN....LOOK ELSEWHERE!

By Stop Shouting (217.37.14.235) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 04:24 pm: Edit

If you look on the left hand side of your keyboard you will see a key called "Caps Lock". Press it once, thanks.

The majority of us thought that Rambo was a donkey when he signed for us. How wrong we were.