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Stoke (h) - League - 23rd August 2003

Reports and reaction from the 2003-04 season as Walsall finished 22nd (R) in Division 1
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Stoke (h) - League - 23rd August 2003

Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:23 pm

By Steve Roy (81.131.191.233) on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 05:00 pm: Edit

Merse does it again!

By Me2 (195.92.168.168) on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 05:32 pm: Edit

Shame we didnt play the first half, otherwise we would have won easily. Decent performance second half, but a little frustrating. Sjoke are not very good at all....hoof!

Where were the Sjoke fans??? And I am soooo glad we didnt get Asaba, but I do hope we get a good striker to work with Jorge next week.

5 points from three games, I think I am happy with that so long as we get three points from Crewe.

By cat3 (203.99.143.15) on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 06:20 pm: Edit

Merson is gladiator! He shall win and prevail... Magic Merson does it again...

By Cal's a saddler (81.131.93.38) on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 06:40 pm: Edit

Good point considering the ref and linesman were so crap!! Please oh Please get us a striker!!

By hullsaddler (212.50.177.11) on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 07:47 pm: Edit

From listening to the commentary it sounded like we were pretty dire as an attacking force in the first half.I must admit i was getting depressed & thought that we were going to get nothing till that bit of magic merson.Sounded like the ref was totally abysmal.
I hope we approach Crewe game in a positive attacking way as I'm sure we can take 3 points from the game if we do.
At least a point means meirstoke wont be insufferable.

By SuperSaddlers (63.99.219.201) on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 08:32 pm: Edit

i seriously do not know why refs have it in for us lot, there are a waste of space when comin to the bescot! need some decent one for a change like the ones Man U get when they are at home (or away for that matter!)

I am pleased that wolves narrowly missed a win today!!!!!

By Cannock (213.48.83.20) on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 08:48 pm: Edit

Very relieved to get a point today. If anything, todays performance highlights the need for an additional striker. The lack of movement up front was alarming. We have a good creative midfield but, if there is no movement ahead of them we will always be going sideways or backwards. Not a very impressive performance BUT we kept on till the end a gained a valuable point.

Whilst the team battled until the very end, i didn't. Foolishly i left in a temper 5 minutes before the end. I will never learn.

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.33.12) on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 09:31 pm: Edit

Magical Merson does it again. Another fantastic goal, that got us a fully deserved point. The bloke is pure class, he might lose the ball on the odd occasion, but I think we notice more when he does because everytime he gets the ball everyone expects something from him.
I reckon Roper, Hay and Emblen wont come up against another such "hoof" team for the rest of the season. Although they struggled at times agaist Noel-Willans and Asaba, they come through in the end.
Thought once against Osborne and Corica were the best players. And when Oakes came on I also thought he was superb.
Still undefeated, we need something at Crewe on Monday now.


By Surrey Saddler (195.93.33.12) on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 09:36 pm: Edit

I hope Colin plays two up front on monday. From listening to the game on the net it seems Birch did OK when he came on. Let's hope he gets a full run against Stoke

By Surrey Saddler (195.93.33.12) on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 09:37 pm: Edit

I mean Crewe

By ANoS (213.122.127.187) on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 09:38 pm: Edit

I think someone like Asaba is exactly what we need in all honesty me2. In fact anyone esle playing up front would be nice (and likely to score goals in that team). Someone is needed to take the pressure of Jorge and help get onto the end of Merson's passes. In the first half Merson and Jorge could combine quite well... but the ball would go astray because there was no-one else to get in behind them. One Birch came on we had an prescene in the air and it was nice to see Pedro and Aranalde linking well again. Funny I thought Stoke were a big club they must have brought all of 1200 fans with them. Pathetic club they really are. They scored another scrappy goal and after that hoofed the ball long. It will earn them points but non-one will admire their football. Crap they were. So was the bloody ref. But then as Rennie showed today even the best teams get crap refs and even the best team in England get dodgy decisions...

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.33.12) on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 09:39 pm: Edit

Birch is f*cking sh*te. Had one good run and that was it. The bloke is a donkey. Loan him off to a second or third division team where he belongs. If he is a first division striker, I am the next lottery winner.

By PGtips (62.31.219.113) on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 09:39 pm: Edit

Shame for poor Meir Stoke. 5 mins to go and his fingers were poised on that key board ready to post a pile of grief. One magic swing of merse's boot later and he is back in hiding.

Stoke were well organised and dour. Time wasters and niggly. Lucky rebound for a goal and then sit back and spoil the game. Reminded me of a Neil Warnock team.

We need a striker to support Jorge. Merse can not do it every week. Very pretty at times in the first half but it all ground to a halt before we got anywhere near the box. Pedro seemed to show his knack of turning a game with another super sub performance. It's probably two points dropped but it feels like a point well won at the moment.

By Stu (195.92.67.74) on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 10:12 pm: Edit

Stoke were 'work-manlike' in my opinion, very hardworking and physical. Which is to be expected for a Tony Pulis side.

Asaba & Noel-Williams were a handful most of the match and Darrell Russell looked very good I thought.

Thought both sides were nip and tuck in the first half, they shaded it slightly but I didn't think they'd score, and it took a lucky riochet for the ball to get to Asaba.

2nd half was one way traffic, if we'd scored 5 minutes earlier that would have been it.

I think today highlighted two points. 1) We need a striker like Noel-Williams, who has presence. (now we know why Lee went for him, and Dyer, Asaba, Akinbiyi and Bothroyd) and I wasn't entirely convinced about our defence today. Their front two really did give us some problems in the first half, I'd like to have seen us be a bit more physical.

But, overall, we were 1-0 down 10 minutes to go so a point is a good result. I'd like to see us get a win on Monday, but I'll take a point so we can get a run going.

By gray ellwood (213.122.216.134) on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 10:23 pm: Edit

stoke are the new sheffield united.





or the new wolves.I can't decide

By Jorge14 (195.93.33.12) on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 10:25 pm: Edit

In my opinion Birch could do a job, allowing Jorge to go back to scoring goals and Birchy could do the majority of the donkey work (no pun intended)...

Thought we were pretty lucky today, IMO. Asaba would have been the difference to take us to that next level in our team, most definately. He and Jorge would have bagged goals between them.

Strange 2 see that Meir isn't on here. Secretly, I was looking forward to his childish verbal abuse when they beat us...sadly, Merse denied us that dubious pleasure.

Great goal, and unbelievably, I'd go with Bar Sport (match sponsors), who named Zigor man of the match. Thought he gave 110% as usual and played well.

Can see both ourselves and Sjoke finishing a comfortable mid-table this season. 1 thing IMO for certain, neither will go down.

By Me2 (195.92.168.175) on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 11:12 pm: Edit

still think we can do better than Asaba.

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.33.12) on Saturday, August 23, 2003 - 11:25 pm: Edit

Of course Birch can do a job for us Jorge14. Cleaner, steward, ticket office clerk. But christ not a footballer thats for certain.

By Fish (81.132.242.86) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 12:44 am: Edit

First things first,Sheff. It was Birch who set Merson up with a great header, I thought his overall contribution was good.

As for the game I thought we started in the same dire way as we played against Coventry, lots of pretty football, but no penetration - Ralph or whoever it is who always rings WM got it wrong, he was praising our first half football. We were not that good and won't be until we can punish teams in the last third of the field.

The second half was a different story, OK it took us time to get going but when we did we played with far more purpose, pace and balance, and I thought we looked a good team against a pretty ordinary (not pretty really) Stoke side.

I thought that all three subs made good contributions to the game (Birch included) and don't agree with the other WM caller's criticism of Pedro...Pedro added another dimension for us.

Having had time to reflect, I feel really optimistic that we have the makings of a really good side of high quality players. I think that once Lee gets to know his best team and formation we could really push for a top ten finish.

Continue in this vein on Monday and we could embarras Crewe



By Fish (81.132.242.86) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 01:04 am: Edit

Just a reminder, dont forget that you can offer you views on the refereeing performance (if that what is was) on the following site;

http://www.ratetheref.co.uk/

By cat3 (218.102.39.130) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 01:12 am: Edit

It's a bit too late to complain about the referee. We got a point already from Sjoke. We need to move on to our next opponent. Let's study Crewe and contain Kenny Lunt from distributing the ball! This guy is Premiership quality and is a leader.

By sj (195.93.33.12) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 08:28 am: Edit

Colin Lee's tactics in the first half were poor. The three centre halves where getting in one anothers way, a case of too many cooks. Roper was like a spare pr*ck at a wedding stuck out on the left hardly getting into the action and when he had the ball he was so uneasy I weeped for the man. But more than this it was like we were playing with nine men. Normally Walker acts as a sweeper giving shape to a flat back four. This system with these players on this pitch is madness.

Thankfully Lee is an Intelligent man. Second half back to 4-4-2 Roper in the centre playing as a stopper( because thats all he is) Walker sweeping Merson playing deeper, balance in the middle power up front and we became an OVERWHELMING POWER. This must be the way we play for the rest of the season if we do then I think we will be knocking at the door come May

By Stu (195.92.67.68) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 11:31 am: Edit

Must admit, I thought Pedro made quite a difference. He sat out on the left hand touchline and this continually kept pulling them out of position and creating space elsewhere. But, this tactic won't work all the time so we need various styles that we can try.



By Jorge14 (195.93.33.12) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 05:03 pm: Edit

Pedro did add us a completely different dimension, and as so often happens when he comes on in the second half, he caused the opposition a sh!t load of problems.

Here's my all important rating for the match...

Walker - 9 - Did as good a job as usual. No need to explain...good, important saves, in communication with his defence for 90 minutes and quite possibly ready to rise to the tag of best goalkeeper in the Football League.

Roper - 6 - Looked totally uneasy throughout the first half before reverting to a stopper. As sj said, that is all he is. As much as I like Ian Roper, and the fact that i voted for him in the last two years Player of the Year comps, he looks out of place now in out ever improving team. Sadly, I think Paul Ritchie is his replacement.

Emblem - 7 - Solid, as we have come to expect this season. Did nothing special but absolutely nothing wrong. It should be noted that he did have a chance to clear the ball in the moments leading up to the goal.

Hay - 8 - Solid, dependable, and unlike Mr. Roper, comfortable and more importantly CONFIDENT on the ball. Played a vital role on keeping tabs on Asaba, Noel-Williams and latterly Greenacre and Iwelumo, and really didn't put a foot wrong. So vital that we got him back in time for the season, and I really can't believe a "bigger" club didn't come in for him when he was a free agent in the summer.

Bazely - 8 - Another typical display. Pace down the wings, always giving options to Merse, Vinny, Corica and Ozzie and put in a couple of telling crosses that a couple of strikers might have put away. Dependable in defence, and as last season, really looks indespensable to the cause.

Aranalde - 9 - Really looked impressive yesterday, all but for one mis-timed tackle just after the goal, with got the obvious "Gypo" chants from the Clayheads. Looked good going forward, like Baze put some decent balls in and was much better than his average self at the back. Deservably IMO named Man of the Match by Bar Sport.

Samways - 8 - Would have been my MOM but for his unfair looking dismissal, which Mr. P. Taylor (no, not suntan man, the ref) put down to the old fail-safe, Foul and Abusive Language. Basically, he realised Vinny did nothing wrong and this meant the assesor wouldn't criticise him. Also, F&B carries a straight red card 3 game ban, Vinny was given a second yellow, meaning a 1 game ban. Who said referees are getting more consistent.
Vinny was mighty impressive all the match, especially in the second hald where he could "sit" more in the middle and act as the midfield general. Alongside Merse and Wacker, the most influentual player on the pitch.

Osborn - 7 - Didn't get involved too much before he came off in he second half. Did notably spray numerous balls across field, accurately pin-pointing Bazely and Aranalde each time. Our most under rated and classiest player.

Corica - 7 - I won't have a go at him (which I know Sheff will be disapointed about), but he wasn't too effective yesterday and probably could have been deployed better. However, nothing to complain about.

Merson - 9 - I think Brian Little, Steve Cotteril or Chris Kamara summed it up. "Does this guy never not score great goals". Anonymous for long periods of the game playing up front, but the times he dropped back he was involved all the time, and even ran with the ball! I've got to agree with Meir Sjoke as well, he is the best midfielder in the league...not a bad goalscorer either.

Leitao - 7 - Was given no help until the second period and was outpowered by the three big defenders of Sjoke. But as always gave 110% and can't be criticised. The person who does is either blind or quite simply a twerp.

Subs :

Pedro - 9 - Was the difference maker when he came on soon after half time. Gave width and as always, we played better with a 442. Unlucky not to score a couple of times as well. Got to the touchline, out skilled the big Sjoke defenders and scared them to death. Quite simply, Sjoke didn't no how to handle the big man.

Birch - 8 - One of, if not his most, impressive displays in a Walsall shirt. Used his strength constructively for a change and ran at the defence. I really think Colin can't overlook Birchy as he also, in a different way from our midfielders, gives us a different dimension in the sense that defenders at this level aren't used to the big, bustling centre forward, and although it didn't work for Big Bad Brett, it could for Birchy and he could bag a few goals. All I say is don't make a Martin Butler out of him.

Oakes - 8 - Looked mighty impressive when he came on and had the skills and touches to match the magic man. Also, he battled back in defence and managed to mix himself up with the action.

MOM - Pedro - Turned the game on its head as Sjoke didn't have a clue as to how to play him.

All in all, we didn't deserve to lose, and after we had battered Sjoke through out the second half, maybe we deserved to win...but in my opinion a 1-1 draw is satisfactory against a team who I feel will finish close to us in mid-table.


By Stu (195.92.67.208) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 05:50 pm: Edit

Jorge, what game were you watching yesterday as I presume those are the ratings for a 4-0 thumping that didn't occur...

Did you forget the first half when we were completely ineffectual against a side that closed us down quickly every time.

We were better 2nd half, but that was also combined with Stoke doing a 'Graydon' and defending 10 yards deeper.

We weren't that good.

By saddlesore (62.252.200.146) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 06:57 pm: Edit

This was not the formation for a home side,but given the fact we only have one recognised striker & young birchy clearly isn't ready yet,perhaps we should understand it.Way too deep & showing Stoke way too much respect ! Jorge couldn't have done anymore than he did.He led the attack well considering the lack of support he had.Young Birchy needs a goal to boost his confidence....give the lad a break !!

By PGtips (213.48.64.221) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 07:49 pm: Edit

Young Birchy is knocking on the door louder than ever now. In all three sub appearances he has had this season he has held up the ball well and used his physical strength well. He did more in 10 minutes at Coventry than Jorge did in the previous 80. He has scored goals in friendly's and for the reserves. Now is the time to give him a run. It was pointless giving him a contract if we do not want to use him.

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.33.12) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 09:07 pm: Edit

Exactly "It was pointless giving him a contract". Jorge14 - MOM Pedro, what a stupid statement. What on earth did he do to earn this in your mind? As Stu says, he sat out wide and pulled the Sjoke defenders out with him but for christ sake, you are so bl**dy blinkered, just like many Walsall fans when it comes to Pedro.
If you give Merson a 9 then I think Osborne and Corica deserve at least a 8. Although I think your ratings wopuld suggest we played like we did against West Brom. We didnt.
Oh and please it is EmbleN not EmbleM. Quite easy really. Just replace the M with a N.

By Jorge14 (195.93.33.12) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 09:43 pm: Edit

"Oh and please it is EmbleN not EmbleM. Quite easy really. Just replace the M with a N."

Sheff, theres no need to get all childish about grammar and spelling, particularly as we are getting on so well at the moment. I find it pointless and being as you are so quick to have a go at people who have arguments on this board about non-football matters, I would have expected better.

In my opinion, Pedro had the biggest impact on the match, as you and Stu rightly state "he sat out wide and pulled the Sjoke defenders out with him", which is exactly my point. Without Pedro, I believe we would have just hit the brick wall constantly, without him the defenders wouldn't have been pulled wide, it wouldn't have opened up the space and we WOULDN'T have got the opportunities we had as their wouldn't have been the space. Oh, and as for blinkered Sheff, were you not one the fans calling for Pedro to be played towards the end of last season? The game in question being the Coventry home game. Please, if you are going to complain about someone being blinkered, don't be hypocritical.

I would rather have Merson drifting in and out of the game with brief moments of influence than a midfielder plodding along for 90 minutes, not doing much. He's called David Batty. I presume you will comment now that I am calling all Leeds fans fools for having David Batty as their favourite player. I'm not, but that is my opinion.

Am I blinkered, that is a stupid statement to make. I could say that you are blinkered, as every time I dared to criticise your own praise of Steve COrica, Sheff, I got blasted in your own master piece of the English language.

I thought I had written about our poor performance in the first half, however, it seems that I ommitted that for some unknown reason.

A 4-0 thumping that never occured, Stu? What if the chances had have been converted, what if Jorge had got on the end of some of the crosses, what if the pressure had been converted to clear-cut chances? What if? We could have easily won by 3 or 4 goals to 1 or 2. I presume I would have been tutted at for giving Ian Roper a "6" had that scoreline come to fruition.

Oh, and finally, Sheff, I call you to Stu's comments at 11:31 today (Sunday)...I quote...

"Must admit, I thought Pedro made quite a difference. He sat out on the left hand touchline and this continually kept pulling them out of position and creating space elsewhere."

Don't treat me like Meir Sjoke, as I don't treat you with the same "know-it-all" comtempt. When you make comments I don't agree with I either a) don't post or b) try to be constructive with my criticism and have a reason why. Reasons why are something not offered too much on this board, even by your illustrious selves on occasions. I hope that whenever particualry you two gents in question have disagreed publically on these boards I have offered good enough reasons for my comments, and I would have thought that that deserves a little more respect.

That's my opinion, and I'm not looking to cause an full-scale argument as these times are too good to waste by bickering amongst ourselves. This period WILL NOT last for long, let's make the most of it and enjoy it while it lasts.

By Me2 (195.92.168.172) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 09:50 pm: Edit

*claps Jorge14* Well said. I also agree, with a lot of what you said in your match report.

By Jorge14 (195.93.33.12) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 09:55 pm: Edit

If any one is on AOL and wants a chat about Walsall and football in general, feel free to chat to me on my AOL screen name of Saddlers01.

It is also my e-mail address followed by @aol.com. I'll be including it in my name from now on, so hopefully I can be criticised as above in private, rather than on the message board.

Look forward to speaking to my fellow Saddlers!

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.33.12) on Sunday, August 24, 2003 - 11:51 pm: Edit

Jorge14 - Pedro does not deserve to be MOM, unless a sub does something really really special how on earth can you give him MOM? As given at the match I think Zigor deserved it a lot more that Pedro to be honest. Secondly, I thought Oakes was a much better player than Pedro when he came on.
There are times when it is good to bring Pedro on, I have never said there isnt. All have said is that he cant do it for 90 minutes and is not first division quality on a regular basis.
What David Batty got to do with anything by the way?
Finally just think about it. If you saw 11 ratings in a paper reading 9,6,7,8,8,9,8,7,7,9,7 and 9,8,8 for the subs what would you honestly think? Not that the team had drew 1-1 and had played 45 minutes of decent football, which is what it was. Your ratings are based on 45 minutes not the 90 they should haved been. As you have said in your post "I thought I had written about our poor performance in the first half, however, it seems that I ommitted that for some unknown reason."

By popperpancake (81.77.241.164) on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 12:54 am: Edit

Stiker. That's what we need. Noel-Williams was excellent for them i thought. Shame we didn't get him.

By popperpancake (81.77.241.164) on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 01:00 am: Edit

Stiker. That's what we need. Noel-Williams was excellent for them i thought. Shame we didn't get him.

By Jorge14 (195.93.33.12) on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 09:52 am: Edit

It's called an example (re: David Batty), Sheff.

Popper, that is exactly what we need, and, as some one has said before on this thread, you can see why Colin Lee was so eager to get after Dyer, Noel-Williams, Asaba et al.

What revelance is the last quote Sheff? I do not see where it fits into the "argument". It was a statement I made, simple as that.

At least I'm not alone in my thoughts, Me2. Good to have you on board ;-)

Finally Sheff, as I said, there are times I don't agree with you, as some of your opinions are not my opinions. That was my view of the game, and I don't expect to be "told off" for putting my opinions on the board. This is a very opinionated board, we've seen this during our debates regarding the war etc. and it is easy to misunderstand people. However, unless I'm much mistaken, you are criticising my opinion, and that really doesn't make sense.

I'm not looking for an apology, instead, I think it'd be wise to concentrate on the Crewe game today and agree to disagree...

By cat3 (203.218.153.63) on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 09:58 am: Edit

We will demolish Crewe tonight. I got a bunch of good luck charms on my side supporting Walsall. We will win and prevail.. hahaha...

By Stu (195.92.67.69) on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 10:36 am: Edit

Jorge, its all fair and well saying if we'd taken our chances.... But you could say that every game.

And in all fairness to Sjoke, Asaba missed two good chances on the counter in the 2nd half whilst it was still 1-0.

And, even more so, we should have been down to 10 men and facing a penalty after 5 minutes in what was the most stone wall penalty decision I've ever seen.

Those ratings are based on the 2nd half performance, not the whole game in context.

By Me2 (195.92.168.169) on Monday, August 25, 2003 - 11:32 am: Edit

I would say to even things out, and to take the first half into consideration, maybe knocking one point of each player in your ratings would be good.

As for tonight, I have a feeling its going to be a tricky one. We are certainly capable of picking up three points, but I think I would be happy with another point. If we can turn things on from kick off, then we should easily come away with 8 points from our first 4 games - and that would be a great start to the season for us.

Next week should be a good week I hear, lots of speculation that we will be getting a striker next week and my money would be on Akinbiyi.

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