Ipswich (a) - League - 16th September 2003

[Andy]

By another defeat (195.93.33.12) on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 - 10:06 pm: Edit

who will be next to get their first win against us?

By sj (195.93.33.12) on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 - 10:38 pm: Edit

Too negative, no chances,no change, in for another dog-fight, so depressing. Good night and God help us.

By rolo (195.93.33.12) on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 - 10:44 pm: Edit

another shuffle of the pack but the result still the same.it's going to be another struggle to stay up.

By Fish (81.132.177.83) on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 - 11:44 pm: Edit

Another shuffle, same system, same result.

By RushallSaddler (195.182.163.22) on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 - 11:59 pm: Edit

4-4-2 please Colin, before it's too late.

By colinleeout (213.48.83.15) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 02:10 am: Edit

Im only going to slag off Colin once over last nights performance, why didnt he take birch off after his cut and not 5 minutes later. 1 man off the pitch probably contributed to their goal. Fair effort reasonably pleased with performance,better than the last 5 games. Still no win though.
won 1, drawn 3, lost 3. <<<< shocking.

By steelmass (80.225.93.24) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 02:46 am: Edit

I could not work out the midfield apart from samways we were all over the place. Plus merson should have been substuted wish he would make up hi smind where he wants to play

By Stu (13.16.137.11) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 08:18 am: Edit

What is this fascination for 4-4-2? We don't have the players to play 4-4-2, I've been saying this for weeks. This is the reason Lee tried to get Ainsworth, so we had a winger who would allow us to play 4-4-2.

Brett Angell repeated this last night when he said that with the personnel available, 3-5-2 is the ideal formation for us to use.

For 4-4-2, you need at least 1 traditional winger, who sits on the touchline, beats his man and gets a cross over. We don't have one (and don't try to tell me Pedro could do that).

By Tim Wilkes (213.2.152.35) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 08:51 am: Edit

Much improved performace, but rarley troubled the Ipswich keeper. Our defence was solid apart from the 3 man cock up for the penalty [Osbourne played Corica into trouble, Corica played a poor back-pass, Walker raced over to the far edge of the box and flattened Bent by the goal line]and at the end when we were chasing the game.
I thought Birch did well, as did Emblem when he came on - it could be a long spell on the bench for Jorge [not exactly an 'impact' substitute, is he!]. Oh for a player like Counago, who at least looked like he might score in the 20 mins he had on the pitch.

By RushallSaddler (217.207.41.3) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 09:03 am: Edit

I know we haven't got the players to suit a 4-4-2 formation Stu, that's down to the manager and the players he has brought in, but I've got a feeling that if you look at the formations of all the div one sides in the top half of the table at the moment , I'd be very surprised if any of them are playing just one up front, playing 1 up front as Colin seems to prefer, is so so negative unless you have at least two possibly three midfielders prepared to run their socks off and get up and support the lone front man, this is highly doubtful with our aging midfielders, Megson summed it up on the radio, he played one up front last night agreed it was a big mistake, they were too negative and won't be playing that formation again.
It's just pure frustration with me at the moment as I can't really see where the next win is coming from or when we will score more than one goal.

By popperpancake (81.134.79.236) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 09:18 am: Edit

Listened on WM. Seemed to play better i thought, but then Brett commented on the lack of chances at the end and i'm not so sure now. I disagree with what your saying about 442 stu. You don't need a winger, remember 1966? (I don't actually but u get my point). Also the liverpool side that won the 3 cups a couple of years back. Last season i thought we played our best football when we played 442 with corica and wrack as the wide midfield players (not that id pick corica and wrack as my wide players now). I know the squad is set up to play 352 but it is very clearly not working at the moment. CL has got a long time yet b4 i start calling for him to be out but who can deny they haven't been extremely disappointed by our start. I certainly have.

By popperpancake (81.134.79.236) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 09:23 am: Edit

Can i just add i'm not totally against 352. In fact it is without doubt the obvious formation for our players. I just think we have to change something at this particular moment.

By Richard Hall (146.227.1.9) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 10:18 am: Edit

To play 442, you may need a winger, or at least full-backs who can overlap (DB and ZA can do), but to play 352 you definitely need wing-backs who can go box-to-box. We don't, so are squeezed through the middle of the park, and as Dario Gradi showed that's quite easy to negate. Now if we had any speed through the middle, or were at least able to pass and move, rather than pass and pass and pass and pass....

By Tim Wilkes (213.2.152.35) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 10:44 am: Edit

We did not play one up front - Merson and Birch were both well up the pitch.

By the way, saw loadsa adverts for something called 'Greene King'...is Geoff some sort of local tycoon in Suffolk?

By popperpancake (81.134.79.236) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 10:53 am: Edit

Geoff is renowned throughout the land!

By merson10 (195.171.73.170) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 11:21 am: Edit

Some points...

1. I'm bemused by Colin's team selection last night. When we played 3-4-2-1 earlier in the season we were playing ok but clearly missing a cutting edge up front - ie another striker to help out Jorge. Colin spent ages trying to sign one and finally got his man in Deon Burton. In the meantime we persevered with the formation - presumably meaning he didn't want to throw Birch or Fryatt into the equation - despite encountering the same problem over and over again. Then we come to last night. Birch up front by himself. If he is good enough, why didn't he partner Jorge earlier in the season? If Fryatt is good enough for the bench, why didn't he get a chance with Jorge? Why have we wasted precious resources on Deon Burton when he was half-fit on Saturday and either not fit or not good enough for the squad last night? And why did we go back to 3-4-2-1 when surely we knew we would have the same problems - goodish performance, no cutting edge. My guess is Colin panicked a bit after the Derby game and decided against the 2 strikers option. However I don't think the formation was the problem in the Derby game, I think it was the performances of the majority of the team.

2. Why oh why oh why didnt we take Birch off when he got injured? It was obvious he had to go off, and we had the opportunity. I though we had learned our lesson from the Darren Wrack situation v Fulham in the cup two years ago.

3. I'm getting a little bit annoyed with the attitude of some of our (mainly senior) players. I don't want to accuse them of not trying or lacking commitment but there seems to be a laziness creeping in to our game. This manifests itself in a number of ways - movement off the ball, particularly from throw ins; stupidly getting caught offside too often; mishitting routine passes because of a lack of concentration. Whatever your opinion of Colin Lee, no-one can accuse him of a lack of effort. He strikes me as someone who can never switch off from the job and really commits to his work.

4. Can we do some set-piece training once in a while please?

So those are the bad points. Yes, the start to the season has been disappointing but...

1. Last night was the first time we had conceded 2 goals in a match, so defensively we are doing ok. I dont think this is down to a negative approach, more the quality of defenders we have in the squad.

2. We have only lost matches by 1 goal. This could be evidence that we are becoming a side which can compete with any other in the first division - ie the makings of a midtable side.

3. Its still early days. Last year we went to Millwall with 7 points from 9 games, this year we have 6 from 7. Another 3-0 win and we will all be smiling again...

By cat3 (218.102.196.197) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 11:22 am: Edit

The players' morale are pretty poor. We need to straighten them out and work together as a team. We can't afford to have any bad passes, otherwise, we will lose again. We must start paying more attention with the direct pass. A second too late, the pass will be stolen by others.

By Lisa Jones (195.92.168.169) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 11:27 am: Edit

Yes Merson10 but how likely are we to get anything from Millwall? Extremely unlikely I think.

By Raven (213.48.57.77) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 11:39 am: Edit

Ive been watchin walsall since i was seven. im 16 an a season ticket holder. ive ad enuf. i cant go on watchin under par performances from players who always let me down when i need them to win most. im thinkin bout packin it in 4 good. I HATE 5 AT THE BACK!!!!!!!!

By popperpancake (81.134.79.236) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 11:44 am: Edit

Exactly what i thought last year miss jones. And this year come to think of it.

By colinleeout (62.31.216.41) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 11:45 am: Edit

it isnt all doom and gloom, i thought their was some positives to take out the match, birch held the ball up well, birchy plays beteer than jorge with 1 up front. I thought wracky played half decent. Why do we continue to play bazeley he is NOT a wingback, he cannot cross, tackle or run past players. If i was Colin id probably omitt osbourne from the team and get someone in with pace that will attack teams like pompey had in quashie or wolves with Rae or Cameron, we need a player like this. also we need a new left back and right back.
UNTIL THIS HAPPENS I DONT KNOW WHERE OUR NEXT RESULTS COMING FROM.

By Geordiesaddler (193.195.190.230) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 12:18 pm: Edit

The time is Wright for Mark. I'd play him in a 3-5-2 anyday, with Merson, Samways, and Osborn as a central 3 - Merson deeper and facing the play.

By Stu (13.16.137.11) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 12:55 pm: Edit

If Burton was fit, which he wasn't, then I imagine Lee would have played two up front.

But he obviously isn't happy with Jorge, and has already commented on how he wished he'd brought Fryatt on (presumably instead of Jorge) because Jorge made such little impact.

Reading these pages makes me think we must be 37 games into the season, not 7... And I thought my nan used to panic...

By merson10 (195.171.73.170) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 01:13 pm: Edit

Lisa, we may face a tough task to get something from Millwall, but the point I was making was will it be any tougher than last year, when we managed to take the points.

And besides how can anyone not look forward the Samways / Wise clash in midfield? I wonder what the odds are on there being a red card...

By Dave Roe (217.37.14.235) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 01:29 pm: Edit

Mark Wright ??? Come on Geordie, he's got to do at least 3 seasons on loan (preferably in Scotland) before he can even be considered for Lee's team.

Stu, it's not about panicking. It's about realising the problems now and not just hoping they will go away by themselves.

And, If Lee would prefer to play 442 but can't due to a lack of suitable players, then there's only one person to blame, isn't there ?


By popperpancake (81.134.79.236) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 02:21 pm: Edit

I'm not really having this "we havent got the players to play 442" argument. We played 442 the majority of last season. Who was the great winger we had that allowed us to play this way?

By Neil Ravenscroft (62.172.127.2) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 03:02 pm: Edit

We also leaked goals for fun playing it.

By popperpancake (81.134.79.236) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 03:18 pm: Edit

We're inept for fun in front of goal playing 352.

I'm just suggesting it as an option. To dismiss it totally as Neil and Stu seem to have could be foolish. I actually think we're capable of playing either formation.

By Cannock (62.31.216.217) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 03:27 pm: Edit

Much more exciting though Neil. Better than the crap we are currently paying to watch.

Believe it or not, i don't mind losing to anyone, IF we play with commitment and desire. I cannot stomach performances when it seems as if players don't give a hoot and where defeat doesn't hurt them.

By Stu (13.16.137.11) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 03:41 pm: Edit

Dave, there is a difference between "realising the problems now" and seeing the problems after 7 matches.

The main problem is now the cutting edge. But, thats not something that CL doesn't know. He knows full well that we lack cutting edge, but what do you want him to do? He has gone for the players, he has made better offers than other teams (see Akinbiyi's comments) but he hasn't got those players yet.

Its not as if your seeing something that CL doesn't know. Your seeing exactly what he does know.

And as I keep saying, patience is the key when you combine 5/6 new players with a style of football that they're not used to.

By Dave Roe (217.37.14.235) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 04:56 pm: Edit

To me it's exactly the same style of football that we saw post Christmas last season. Ultra-defensive, shot shy, boring, passionless and totally in-effective.


By Tim Wilkes (213.2.152.35) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 05:13 pm: Edit

I didn't see much that was ultra defensive or passionless last night. Yup, we were shot shy and yup, we were ineffective cos we lost the game.


By Geordiesaddler (193.195.190.230) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 05:14 pm: Edit

And we achieved the second highest finish in the club's history, how crap is that?

By Chris Owen (80.86.36.158) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 05:54 pm: Edit

We may be missing the point slightly. The problem was not that we had one rather than two out and out strikers last night, but that whoever was up there never got the service to do the job. Birch got one good chance and buried it. But he got no more chances. The problem may well be our much vaunted midfield - and that in turn could well be about formation. If we had two strikers last night, would they have scored any more than one, given the amount of useful ball was actually getting to the front?

At least last night there was actually some commitment shown. That at least makes losing a little easier to bear than outright capitulation.

Fensaddler

By Tim Wilkes (213.2.152.35) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 07:35 pm: Edit

Er, if Merson wasn't the 2nd striker for the 1st hour of last nights game then he was certainly a goal hanging midfield player.


By Aldridge Saddler (195.92.168.168) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 11:31 pm: Edit

Jamie Lawrence is the player we need in midfeild.
Powerful, quick box to box player the type of midfeilder we are crying out for.
Trouble is Lawrence is a pale shadow of the player he was towards the end of last season.
Not match fit or not up for it i'm not sure.
Ps did you see Colin Lee's quote in the E&S ?"We're trying to get into everyone's head that we have to score more goals.".
With a quote like that think even I'm capable of becoming a football manager.

By Chris Owen (80.86.36.158) on Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 09:29 am: Edit

Tim, you may well have had the advantage over me of being there, rather than listening to the radio commentary whilst sorting out the contents of your spare bedroom. The point still being, I think, that whether we had two genuine strikers, a striker and a midfielder breaking forward, or a striker and a midfielder playing as a striker, the service to them was such that they didn't get a fat lot of chance to do any striking...

I'll hope against reason that we can get something at Millwall on Saturday - years of watching Walsall has persuaded me that just occasionally they can turn form on its head, and either lose when everything says they should win (Derby anyone?) or vice versa. But I suspect it will get worse before it gets better, much like dentistry.

Fensaddler

By raven (213.48.57.77) on Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 09:43 am: Edit

I doe see why lawrence cant fill the right wing space. he's got the pace