Derby (h) - League - 13th September 2003

[Andy]

By rolo (195.93.33.12) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 05:44 pm: Edit

i've just seen two of the teams that will be fighting relegation this season.the worst performance since the latter stages of sir ray's reign.

By belgian saddler (213.224.83.70) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 05:48 pm: Edit

that good eh? did sound dire

By Meir Stoke (195.92.168.165) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 05:56 pm: Edit

Shame.

By andy (80.58.41.45) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 06:01 pm: Edit

in majorca had to be junior tho didnt it!

By rolo (195.93.33.12) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 06:04 pm: Edit

typical junior game.spent most of the match on his arse whingeing at the ref then scoring with a scuffed shot.

By Mark Davies (195.92.168.169) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 06:06 pm: Edit

As I predicted it IS Lee's summer performance not Junior's that is of concern to Walsall fans. Junior again showed he is a very useful 1st division forward. Lee's signings...Merson, Osbourne, Oakes, Emblem, Lawrence and Burton...were pathetic. Forget the fluke against the Albion, this lot will take us down. Once Lee decided to spend on Merson and other rejects rather than secure a quality striker his ability to manage our team was in doubt. Bonser must act quickly and get rid of Lee this week.

By Dave Gittins (195.92.168.174) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 06:24 pm: Edit

At the risk of offending all the 'Merson is god' fans I have to say that today he was very ineffective. each pass he made seemed to be cut out by a Derby player.

Jamie Lawrence, I felt, made a useful contribution till he went off early second half. He was prepared to get stuck in to win the ball. When he is back to full fitness I think he will prove to have been a good signing.

On the basis of today's performance it is difficult to make a judgement on Burton. First half he showed some useful touches, but then seemed to prefer launching at Derby defenders rather than the ball. Again, possibly when he reaches full fitness although we need goals NOW.

Before the game I said to my daughter, "you watch, Junior will probably score today". Why did I have to be proved right for once?!!!

To close, one of the most worrying points has to be the relative ease with which Derby bypassed our midfield for most of the match. The defence were pretty sound on the whole and Jimmy was in outstanding form but if the midfield are not performing then eventually something will give.

It's not time to panic yet, but if we carry on with this for a few more weeks then I will be getting worried.

By popperpancake (81.77.242.247) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 06:25 pm: Edit

We just get worse and worse. Awful today i thought. All of the optimism i had is evaporating. Derby were poor as well, and they looked panicky in defence occasionally, but we put them under no pressure at all. We're gonna be involved down the bottom again i think. Don't like to say it and i know it is still early in the season but we create very little and never look like we're gonna score. Useless i'm afraid.

By Walsall Supporter (82.37.192.30) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 06:29 pm: Edit

I had just said to the guy next to me you watch Junior score in extra time, 2 mins later he scored!!
I was very dissapointed with our play, I have to say we missed Zigor's presence in the team. And Merson he gave too many balls away.
WE did play better the second half, came out attacking, but we soon lost our way.

I am worrying already, never mind wait for a few more weeks Dave.

By popperpancake (81.77.242.247) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 06:38 pm: Edit

Rolo, junior is a goalscorer. Simple as that. He behaved terribly in the summer as regards our club, but if there was one player on the pitch today who looked like he was gonna score it was him as far as i'm concerned. Really fudge annoying (and inevitable) that it was him who got the goal but i wish we had someone who did nothing all game but could put the ball in the net. •••••••.

By Cannock (213.48.83.4) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 06:41 pm: Edit

What a load of rubbish. That was a disgraceful performance. To make it worse, Derby were one of the poorest sides i have ever seen.

We had no fight, determination or will to win. Totally unacceptable. Those players on show do not deserve to be paid for that gutless effort.

The midfield were non existent. Lawrence was invisible, Osborn diabolical and Merson all at sea. What a shambles. We really missed Zigor and Samways. What a bloody joke.

Total passing football? This lot couldn't pass the parcel. Since the Albion game we have steadily deteriorated at an alarming rate against very poor opposition. Utter crap.

Nice to meet you Doffer. Thumbs down to the Saddlers club. They allow in misfits after they have turned me away at 2pm. How do you get away with it Whiting? Totally peed off.

By Clive (213.122.39.66) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 06:41 pm: Edit

One word - Samways.

By freda (195.93.33.12) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 07:00 pm: Edit

Another word-abject

By Gordon Crutchley (195.8.88.153) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 07:27 pm: Edit

Hi, this is my first posting.

Like you all, I was appalled at today's performance, but let's not go over the top. Merse won't have many games as bad as that one and Vinny is back next week.

Burton was ok, let's hope it was not just first day enthusiasm. He's not a Junior, but he will help out for a month - until we sign Ruud.

By hullsaddler (213.249.173.27) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 08:25 pm: Edit

Must have been awful being there,as listening was bad enough.WM reckoned the absence of Samways was crucial but there again can one person make all that difference? Sounded like we could have played till this time next week without scoring.
Feel pessimistic about Ipswich who will be thinking they can get their first win of the season as well.

By Bernie Wright (195.93.33.12) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 09:38 pm: Edit

Mark Davies was right when he said that we should be worried about Lee's failure to sign Junior or two adequate replacements for him and the Australian (whose name I can't spell.)

Burton was very unimpressive. Maybe he will improve, but we will still need a third striker. No team can go through the season without cover.

Can you honestly tell me that Osborne, Oakes, Lawrence, Emblem etc are any improvement on what we had already? Merson needs better players around him than we have at the moment. My prediction is that Lee will be gone by Christmas.

Where is Paul Taylor working now? Remember that he did bring us a stream of overseas players. Only about half were successful, but we did have some quality as a result of his efforts.

By sc263485 (80.225.21.42) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 09:39 pm: Edit

Not long back - what a gutless, diabolical performance. We were devoid of ideas in the midfield - I agree with other postings - We sorely missed Samways today - Jorge ran his socks off (again) MOM IMO was Ritchie - a quality defender - his timing of tackles was spot on.
Derby are a woeful team - or else we made them look good.
But hey - it's still early days - lets see where we are end of October before we really have to panic - it's just one ••••• performance so far.Let's see Colin sort them out!!
Up the Saddlers!!!

By Wyrley Saddler (193.113.113.85) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 11:19 pm: Edit

Like I said,Burton is a panic signing by Lee. Wait till he's match fit my arse, we need a goal scorer now not in a months time. We will get him match fit, Bollocks to that, if he aint match fit why sign the prat.
After todays performance we are in deep •••• and already our season is going tits up. For christ sake forget about selling videos of the west brom game and move on to whats important, Trying once again to stay alive in this division, we beat the Baggies 4-1, so bleeding what, look who's top now and who's heading for the bottom, So much for talk of mid table or the play offs. Absolute •••• Walsall and anybody who says we did not play that bad today are off their bleeding rockers.

By BathSaddler (195.92.67.208) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 11:21 pm: Edit

Just got back myself. Pretty much agree with what has been said about the performance [Osbourn/ Merson ineffective, Lawrence/Oakes not much better etc.] but felt that the level of abuse Junior recieved effected us as a team far more than it effected him.It merely served to spur him on, whilst it soured the atmosphere to the detriment of our own team.

Yes, Junior behaved badly. Yes, maybe he DID deserve some stick, but when the desire to abuse him gets in the way of supporting our own team then that completely p***** me off. It was'nt only the team that performed badly today.




By techno (81.79.20.61) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 11:30 pm: Edit

This is my first game for a couple of weeks have been on me hols but what a shambles i was watching today. Even worse than what i saw at coventry,Why oh why can't we play 4-4-2, Merson is just too far forward most of the time. As for Jimmy getting m.o.m what did he have too do,nothing except pick the ball out of the net. It had too be junior who scored he was the one who looked like he was going to do something from both sets of players.Well had my say but WALSALL were s***e today and we will soon be at the bottom of the table if we don't improve

By Wyrley Saddler (193.113.113.85) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 12:09 am: Edit

While I'm still ranting after today's shambles, Roper is total •••••, an average 2nd division clogger, drop him Lee before he drops us right in it. Saw Birch leaving the ground 5 mins before kick off, not a happy boy, still no loss there though, keep driving son, as far from Bescot as possible.

By Realistic Saddler (217.44.83.173) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 03:33 am: Edit

What an absolute shambles.

What we learnt from this game :

1. Burton isn't going to change our season in one month. About as effective as Dale Banton.

2. Jorge is a workhorse, not a striker. How many chances does he need to hit the target?

3. Junior has messed Lee about all summer, and totally messed him about today.

4. Lee misjudged Junior's intentions and has not retrieved the situation, even after 5 months and additional funds being made available! Totally abysmal management.

5. Oakes is a waste of a salary.

6. Bazeley is not a wing back - every time he goes beyond the halfway line he gets a nosebleed.

7. Playing Wrack on the left is completely stupid (he would be a better wingback than Bazeley).

8. Lawrence is not match-fit (or isn't interested).

9. Stoke, Cardiff, Crewe, Coventry, Derby - all teams we would have expected to finish above given the "quality" of Lee's squad - 3 points from a possible 15 - relegation form.

10. Why didn't Lee warn his defenders that Junior always played with his left foot? Baffling.

If this continues, Lee will be out by Xmas.


By MarkW (212.56.110.53) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 09:10 am: Edit

I have to say that for the first time in ages I was bored stiff with yesterdays game played out by 2 very poor sides.To be fair 0-0 was the result the game deserved.
Burton is not the answer and Lawrence definately is not fit.Poor management by Lee.Are'nt Reading looking for a new manager?
Can we become the fastest ever team to go from top to bottom?

By phil (62.64.228.28) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 11:09 am: Edit

you can blame the players all you like, but the simple fact of the matter is that we have a better squad than last year. Lee is not getting the best out of them by playing crap, defensive tactics.

Coventry - average side
Stoke - below average
Cardiff - average side
Derby - below average

We need to be picking up points from these games cos if we dont what chance have we got when west ham, sunderland e.t.c come to town?

Another performance like this, and its time for lee to go. I'm sorry but you know. He's the manager, and he is not getting anything like the best out of these players. Lee can moan all day about the fans having a go at him - but i think it is blatently obvious to any one who listened to wm last night or has read the saddlers message boards, that lee is our limiting factor at the moment not the players.

The more i think about yesterday, the performance just gets worse and worse. it was diabolical. totally disgraceful. If lee continues to be stubborn and not change the system, then we're going down, simple as

By LarryHagler (81.134.45.62) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 12:15 pm: Edit

What bothered me about yesterday was the lack of passion or wanting to win.
CL cannot motivate, bring back merrignton.
CL tactics were a joke yesterday, no leftback at the club so the obvious thing to do was to play 4-4-2 with Ritchie (my MOM) at left back. Every single player had a nightmare even Jorge who never won a header hardly against Micheal Johnson.
And to add for thost Jeff Bonser is our saviour tosers, after the game was told about Jeff's new home which he has had built in Cyprus for 1.8 Million pounds - barclays

By SheffieldSaddler (172.187.146.254) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 01:40 pm: Edit

Worst performance for a long long time. CL must be questioned on tactics, not sure what they were yesterday and I dont think the players did either. Why was Merson further forward than Burton? I found this amazing!
Can we get the fact that even if we had not signed Merson, we still could not afford Junior. Simple mathematics, look at the sums MarkDavies, or cant you count!
Burton is not the answer to our problems thats a certain fact.
Merson had his first real bad game, and it just shows how much we need him already. He had a bad game and we didnt perform. Added to that Samways wasnt playing and that was it. I think people, including myself, thought we wouldnt miss Samways so much, but god we did!
Wyrley Saddler. Roper was has bad as the rest of the players yesterday. Why single him out? I find your comments utter ridiclous.

By Alan (217.42.93.209) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 01:49 pm: Edit

Agree with all of above. But on a brighter note, Doffer was on top form. He was without doubt, far more entertaining than anything out on the pitch. If only the players showed quite as much passion..

By kevpaddock (213.48.84.59) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 01:49 pm: Edit

Colin dont sign a new contract! If you do you will put pen to paper on a two year deal that will see us linked to every fudge and miss out to bigger clubs and we dont want to have two more years of tactical naievity. Colin you cannot get the best out of players. Sonner comes to mind, so does merson. Sonner is the best player for forest so far this season also merse played so much better under a "good" manager in harry redknapp.
PLEASE GO now you have no idea.

By Geoff Whiting (195.92.168.177) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 02:12 pm: Edit

Larry, I don't agree every player had a nightmare. Ritchie was excellent, man of the match no doubt for me, and Wakker did what little he had to do quite effectively in his normal way. Had no chance with Junior's mis-kicked scuffed totally out-of-the-blue against-the-run-of-play fluke.

Can't fault Emblen either, he was only on for 2 minutes, only CL knows why he didn't come on sooner ? And what was CL thinking of - changing it then ? I thought you used an added-time substitution to waste a bit of time, did we really want to do that at that stage while 1-0 down - unbelievable !


By Ian Gittins (81.132.216.239) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 02:53 pm: Edit

So Lee goes from the Messiah who saved our asses in 2002, and signed Merson six weeks ago, to a hapless loser who should resign - all on the strength of one performance! Jesus, no wonder the poor sod argues with the fans behind his dug-out...

By Geoff Whiting (195.92.168.169) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 03:30 pm: Edit

Of course he shouldn't go after this set-back - but if reports I've read today are right, he had a long lock-in after the game yesterday and emerged saying he has to examine the performances of the players AND of himself as well.

I'd agree he needs to do that, and I hope he does it quickly. From the perpective of his own performance, I think most of us are saying he needs to examine his views on team formations and composition.

Right now I trust him to do that and come up with the answers.

By Geoff Whiting (195.92.168.177) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 04:29 pm: Edit

Cannock, re The Saddlers Club, at 2.15pm they wouldn't let Chris or me in either, so I argued with the guy on the door that we always go in on match days, being season tickets holders, but even though we showed the season tickets he still refused us entry because he said they were "packed out, so it's Members only".

So I 'phoned Sheff who I thought would already be in there, basically just to tell him why we couldn't meet up with him.

Sheff said "wait there" and next thing Doffer is at the door, flashes his "Purple" season ticket at the guy, who then asks if Doffer is a member. Doffer tells him he's left his membership card in the bar, the guy says "Oh yeah, they all say that", then amazingly just let's us in saying "I was gonna let them in anyway". Priceless !

See Cannock, it's not what you know, it's WHO you know mate - cheers Doffer, what a star !

By roger 2003 (62.31.216.97) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 04:38 pm: Edit

yes geoff thats what happened the players were behind locked doors for 1 hour. and they were in today(sunday) for extra training
ok yesterdays gone, ruined the weekend, we start again on tuesday, but how we were all excited at the start of the season, well thats slowly going,

By kev paddock (213.48.83.217) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 05:14 pm: Edit

How can some of you say he cannot go after one performance, we are talking about the decline since the albion match. I know we cannot play every game like the albion one but since then weve had about 15 shots on goal. That is pathetic, the man defends too much and expects merse to do everything.
The man has never been messiah and wont be, because he makes too many mistakes.
Im going tuesday but wont expect too much, because that mans still in charge!

By sj (195.93.33.12) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 05:39 pm: Edit

No bite, no steal, no ideas,no formation, no width, no passion, no pace, no guile, no hope. Other than that we have the makings of a good team. Clearly the formation is much too defensive, Merson needs midfielders who win the ball make space, give and go and give and go again. For me the three behind Merson would be Samways Corica and any other. But equally as important; no more important, is starting to play attacking football from the back. So for me Roper out, flat back four: Zigor. Richie, Hay,Wrack. Merson with a free role, but he must play hard when he gets knackered take him off bring Pedro or another on with fresh legs and if we are lucky a wide option. This is how Pompy utilised Merson and he can do the same job for us. Walsall Must play attractive attacking football for the long-term good of the club. Lee can do this I believe,but if he cannot then get him out and replace him with someone that can.

By Geoff Whiting (195.92.168.177) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 05:57 pm: Edit

No steal sj ? There was plenty of steal yesterday, Junior did the stealing 10 minutes from time when he unjustly stole the three points that Derby certainly didn't deserve.

Only a draw could have been a fair result yesterday between two really poor teams. It hurts and it's almost unbelievable to be describing us that way now, so soon after we'd had so much expectation just a few weeks ago. How rapidly that has evaporated away !

But sj, if you meant "no steel", well I'd have to say I agree with you.





By The Doc (80.225.93.70) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 06:02 pm: Edit

To all the muppets slating CL:
For god`s sake calm down and get your dummies back! There are only six games gone. You`re all still dining-out on the Albion result and think we can play like that every week, we can`t. We are an average 1st division side and at this stage of CL`s time as manager I will be quite pleased with ANY improvment on last seasons league position, then take it another stage further next season.
Don`t get too upset lads, things can only get better!

By MinnieTheMoocher (213.122.159.75) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 06:07 pm: Edit

lee should go hes no good get rid of him useless no idea how to get best from palyers. we havent played well for weeks

By colinleeout (213.48.83.217) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 06:10 pm: Edit

Things are not getting better, things are gettin alot worse. This type of decline in performances got ray the sack but now this clowns doing it, i doubt bonser will sack him. Afterall bonsers giving more backing to lee than he ever did to ray.

By Jorge14 (195.93.33.12) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 06:58 pm: Edit

Shambolic is the world folks, missed Samways like Sheff would miss beer.

Oh, and before I forget, MarkDavies, Stefan Oakes got involved in the game when he came on (more than the rest of the midfield) and played well. Whilst Emblem touched the ball twice!

Ratings (my opinion ;-) )

Walker - 7 - Never really troubled too much, made a couple of what to any one else are great saves, but to Wacka, well, they're average at best. Given Man of the Match by sponsors, fail enough I suppose.

Bazely - 5 - Ineffective, exposed, exploted. Never had Morris under any semblance of control, probably his worse game in a Saddlers shirt. Where has his form from last season gone?

Wrack - 6 - Playing at an unusual left wing back position, so cannot be blamed too much. Had our best chance which pulled a great save from Oakes. It's a shame Lee Grant wasn't in goal, we would have won 2-1.

Hay - 7 - My Man of the Match. Looked calm and assured as always. Could have done better for the goal, but then, so could the rest of the defence.

Roper - 5 - Another poor display. Standard cr@p distribution and could have done a hell of a lot better with the goal. Sadly, and this really does pain me to say it, he carries on looking like our weakest link. Always honest though. Can't fault him on guts and pride.

Ritchie - 6 - Good, honest, hard working display. It's a shame he isn't a midfielder or a striker isn't it? Solid at the back and never gave Junior a moments piece in all honesty. He and Hay would be a great partnership in a 442.

Merson - 5 - So very, very dispointing. I hate to upset you "Merson is God" brigade, but he was appalling yesterday. Okay, he did no worse than Roper, Osborn, Burton and Bazely, but he is our captain, our leader, and he should have taken the game by the scruff of the neck. Sadly, it seems with Merse it's to feet or not at all this season. Needs to get out of his honeymoon mode, or he'll find the crowd getting restless with him. He missed Samways immensely yesterday.

Lawrence - 6 - Worked hard, ran and ran and ran, but no end product. Decent game considering he has had little pre-season and has been injured for a month.

Ozzie - 5 - Ineffectual, but is in no danger of being dropped if Vinny is out as he is our only defensive midfielder of any note. Needs to take on Merse's mantle if the "Magic Man" seemingly is off his game as he has been for the last couple of games. Seemed to sit too much for my liking and was never involved to any point.

Burton - 5 - Poor. Definately not the type of striker we needed, but then he got zero service so maybe a little harsh to say he's completely useless. Needs more than a month I feel.

Leitao - 5 - Again, no service and worked his balls off to get us moving. Never happened though.

Subs :

Oakes - 6 - Got involved, got the ball going and tried to turn the tide from boring 0-0 to a Walsall win. However, like the rest of the team bar the back three and the strikers, didn't seem to know his role or actual position.

Pedro - 5 - Did nothing of note.

Emblem - N/A - Thrown on in dying seconds, but strangely slotted into a defensive midfield role. I ask you, what is the f'n point any more?


We were that bad.

I can understand the ideaology behind the tactics. Strangely enough by watching Real Madrid! Last night Salgado was trying to get the ball over the centre back, trying to exploit his lack of pace and the pace of Ronaldo and Raul. This worked to a degree and Real hammered Vallodolid. This was what Baze was trying to do, however, what is the ideaology behind this in our team, bypassing the midfield?

YOu may say, so were Real. But it is different for them. They have Figo and Zidane who IMMEDIATELY take up striking positions so, when the defender wins the header there is someone there to take up the ball for Real. However, when, invariably, Baze's pass went straight to the defence (16 year old Tom Huddlestone was immense, it must be added) it was mopped up by Derby's defence or midfield.

If we are going to play this tactic, and there is nothing wrong with doing that, then maybe our midfield should sit down together and watch Real. Now, before you complain that we aren't on a par with Real, you are right. We aren't. But neither are the defences on a par with La Liga defences. We must anticipate this ball, and I see no reason for us not as Corica, Merson and Lawrence have an immense amount of experience to "see" the ball first. The same applys to a lesser extent with Ozzie and Samways, as they are first and foremost defensive midfielders.

Maybe I should send that to Colin?

Finally, COLIN LEE MUST NOT GO.

By sj (195.93.33.12) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 07:46 pm: Edit

Geoff sorry about that mate I thought I was back at work and steal is the only steal I deal with if youk now what I mean.

Geoff do you share my view on Ropes. Fantastic stopper but not good enough to play the type of football we need now. OK there will be times when he can do a job for the team , sort some Bolshie forwards out. In our new attacking era to come can he really be part of our new "master Plan"? Geoff tell me what your head says not the other part of your anatomy you sometimes talk out of, if you know what I mean. Please picture a happy face.

By popperpancake (81.79.117.214) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 07:54 pm: Edit

I agree CL needs to look at the formation. To what tho that is the question. The main problem is we don't get enough men forward. Merson, Letiao and Burton were the only people getting into their box yesterday, in games b4 it has been merson letiao and corica. Ideally i would say u u need to get 4 or 5 men getting into goalscoring postions. If we played 442 then u'd get the 2 striker, the 2 wide men plus hopefully one of the central midfield player. The problem then is who do we play wide? I'd prefer samways as the holding midfield player, merson as the attacking central midfielder and 2 from 4 out of corica, wrack, lawrence and matias as the wide men. My choice would be lawrence and corica. A diamond if u will. I prefer this to the 4312 formation that people have been talking about as then with the 3 midfielders of oakes, osborn and samways (which seem to be the popular choice) u r again leaving only 3 players to attack as all 3 of the above will tend to hold. Maybe slightly attacking but bollox to it i wanna see some shots. Man City played similarly to this today with Barton holding and mcmanaman, sinclair and wright-phillips in front of him. The main problem would be merson who u would need to to get behind the ball on occasions, if not actually put any tackles in. I'll probably have changed my mind tomoro but right now thats how i wanna see us play. We have the players to play attacking football so why not. One good thing is the defence seems better this season. Just seem to switch off occasionally and get punished.

By Exile (203.98.50.24) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 08:38 pm: Edit

sj - good post there, with at least some constructive comment in it, lacking somewhat in others' utterings on this match.

No to Colin Lee out, as long as he can take something from this mess. If he reads these boards (and the club would be foolish not to summarise them at least occasionally for the staff) he'll be feeling pretty sick about what people are thinking, and I'd hope he gets something out of them in terms of ideas occasionally.

Cheers all
Exile


By Exile (203.98.50.24) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 08:39 pm: Edit

Damn - two "occasionally"s. My standards are slipping.

By lee54 (82.37.178.116) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 08:54 pm: Edit

lets get behind the team & manager lads
we can turn it round
coooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooome on
i think every1 is p****d off because of who scored
im not going 2 name the brazilian t**t lets all move on playoffs here we come
ps have a good holiday paul dont forget the rock

By Geoff Whiting (195.92.168.170) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 08:55 pm: Edit

Surprising as it may be to you sj, yes I certainly do share your views on Roper. In fact I said this a couple of weeks ago and then feared I was about to start a near-riot.

I voted for Ropes as Player of the Season and he rightly won it in 2002/03, but I do think he has looked clumsy, class-less, and out of his depth at times this term - whether that is a lapse in form on his part, or a sign of better players around him that we are comparing him with, I am not entirely sure. But to me it stood out at Coventry particularly.

However I think it may be necessary for CL to look at our defence and select on the basis of individual opposition. Roper is certainly one-hell of a stopper, and will usually do well against the hard-men we come up against - the likes of Lee of Cardiff.

Against less physical sides, he could be replaced with a more cultured style of defender. After his first couple of games, I am surprised that Emblen has been left out, and would like to see him back as soon as possible. He was I think given man of the match against Albion and Carlisle, and was second only to Walker at Coventry - how he could then be dropped to the bench is a mystery to me.

However it is not the defence that is my main concern right now, it is (unsurprisingly) our lack of attacking ideas, know-how and finish that worries me most.

So sj, I have done as you asked and told you what my head says - I don't normally talk out of my other end - I leave that to you mate, you are so much better at it!



By popperpancake (81.79.70.203) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 09:09 pm: Edit

I think Roper struggles playing in a 3. He's much better as part of a back 4. He doesn't have to pass it so much then!

By C.Lee (195.93.33.12) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 09:32 pm: Edit

Bloody budding Alex Fergusons!

Which way we going,Man City or Real Madrid?

By popperpancake (81.77.122.18) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 09:58 pm: Edit

Let's play like Wolves 451. Solid. Keep it tight.

By Fish (81.132.238.151) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 10:09 pm: Edit

I thought that Ropes had a decent game yesterday, and that his distribution was OK.

Ropes was not the reason for the defeat, it's again the lack of pace and fluency. We are so slow to get forward as a unit, the initiaitive is always with the defence. The one time we achieved that yesterday Jorge almost scored.

As for the forwards (strikers), whilst it's unfair to judge on one game, I don't think Burton will do the business. Like Jorge he will score a few goals, but he (and Jorge) are not the clinical finishers that we need. The only one on the books is Fryatt.

I think Lee needs to reassess his playing staff immediately. He has spent the summer overloading midfield and it seems a paradox that every week we seem to be out played in that department (I wonder whether there are too many cooks ?).

Question, Is it time to unload some of these and get a finisher (like, I hate to say, Junior irrespective of what we think of him..he was always a threat, in ways in which no one was for the Saddlers).

To recap

In midfield we have

Merson
Corica
Oakes
Osborne
Wrack
Matias
Lawrence
Emlen
Samways

For God's sake that far too many, given how stretched our budget is...true, there's some quality there, but money does not seem to have been spent wisely. By my reckoning our Midfielders outnumber our strikers 9:1.

No wonder Lee can't find his best team, or system.


By SaddlerSteve (81.128.246.147) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 10:09 pm: Edit

I bloody well hope not. Was at St. Marys yesterday watching Saints beat the Dingles and they were a load of •••••!!

By Wyrley Saddler (193.113.116.135) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 10:29 pm: Edit

In response to my utter ridiclous comment on Roper. I just say it as it is, the bloody truth and it seems that a lot more of us feel the same way. I admit he has a heart of a lion but you need a football brain to go with it. We have 3 great centre halves in Hay, Ritchie and Emblem who can distribute the ball to great effect. Roper is in the Kenny Mower mold, boot the bloody thing away as soon as poss no matter where it goes. Not good enough for the 1st div. Give me Barrass any day over Roper.

By Colin is great (213.122.165.29) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 10:34 pm: Edit

Roper is our only defender with pace. Great, no pace anywhere else in the team, let's drop the only defender who can beat attackers over 10 or 20 yards. No wonder Colin has a go at you lot.

By Ian Gittins (81.132.222.49) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 10:47 pm: Edit

For what it's worth, I'd play Hay, Emblen and Ritchie at the back, Samways as holding midfielder alongside Osborne and behind Merson, and Lawrence as right wing-back where, unlike Bazeley, he'd have pace and be a decent attacking threat. Lawrence played on the wing at Bradford, and he can tackle. Ziggy or, in his absence, Wright as left wing-back. Jorge/Burton up front.

I'd qualify that, though, by saying Lee knows a hell of a lot more about those players and what they can do than me, or any of the pundits on this board, and I genuinely think anybody who says the man should be fired after six games - and six points - of the season, after all he's done for us, and with the squad he's assembled, is demented. Does a defeat knock all logic or perspective out of your heads? Calm down, for Pete's sake.

Gawd, I almost sounded like Sheff Saddler then. I'm off to America now, to get married. See you all in a couple of weeks.

By The Doc (80.225.103.55) on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 12:42 am: Edit

Popperpankake,
This is not a text message board, for god`s sake type in English man!!

By The Doc (80.225.103.55) on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 12:45 am: Edit

Sorry Popper,
That`s pancake in English!!

By Stu (195.92.67.68) on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 12:48 pm: Edit

That's far too much stuff to read, I'll hope it was just 'one of those days' as I don't have a week spare to read this thread.

By Bored Saddler (195.74.100.165) on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 12:55 pm: Edit

It was just one of those days.

Sadly, we seem to have them every Saturday.



By Stu (195.92.67.68) on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 12:57 pm: Edit

What formation did we play? I notice on the official site that Lee says the change of formation didn't help things, he also mentions that not having a left sided player on the left didn't help, which is the same thing I said when people asked why he wanted a left back when he had Wrack to play there.

By Neil Ravenscroft (62.172.127.2) on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 01:14 pm: Edit

I find some of the comments on WM on Saturday very strange. People were ringing up, saying they didn't know what formation we were playing, when it was obviously 3 4 1 2! The problem on Saturday was Wrack wasn't getting forward (lack of confidence on the "wrong side"?) and neither was Bazeley, for some reason, leaving us playing 5 2 1 2.
Fans were then saying we should have been playing 4 4 2. I thought we were, when Pedro went on and Ritchie went to left back and Wrack to right back. The unfortunate thing was, we looked less effective than before!
Lastly, some woman rang up saying why did we put a defender on at the end. I assume she meant Emblen, who isn't a defender and the reason was to give us more height in the box if we got a set piece.
We really, really missed Vinny and, I have to say, the balance that Zigor gives us.

By merson10 (195.171.73.170) on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 01:21 pm: Edit

Change of formation was to 442 after Matias came on in place of Bazeley. I think that was a mistake - we are far better suited to 352 (Roper apart). And putting Merson on the right cost us the goal. The man just does not track back and he allowed their player to run straight past him and put the cross in for Junior's goal.
Lets hope Saturday was a total one-off (like the Albion game was) and we can get back to a decent standard against Ipswich. Remember improvement this year, and our best ever finish, will mean 10th-12th not 1st-6th. I still have every confidence we will finish around those positions.
The idiots calling for Colin Lee's head are the same ones who said last season we would be going down unless he was sacked. And how right they were.

By Jorge14 (195.93.33.12) on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 05:00 pm: Edit

The problem is we are better suited to a 3-5-2 (5-3-2) yet we perform better in a 4-4-2. Personally, if we playy 442 I'd start Lawrence up front alongside Jorge. Bit of pace at the defenders, and defenders any where hate pace.

By Neil Ravenscroft (82.37.184.241) on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 07:58 pm: Edit

Jorge, I will say that Burton has got pace to spare, he just needs match fitness, which he'll only get by playing.
I'll also agree that our personel are set up for 3 5 2, not 4 4 2.

By Jorge14 (195.93.33.12) on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 10:02 pm: Edit

Yes Neil. I agree about Burton, but I feel that to get the best out of him we need him for 2 months at least, as it will take what, 3 games to get going? But that applies with Lawro as well, as he hasn't played for us since April has he?

Maybe, without wanting to cause any controversy on here, we could pull Jorge out for a game, as he is clearly knackered, and to be honest, I feel sorry for him that when he gets a strike partner he is too tired to use him!

By SheffieldSaddler (195.93.33.12) on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 10:39 pm: Edit

Its incredible that people are on about dropping Roper. His distribution on Saturday was as good as anyone in defence. Have you also noticed he tends to have to mark the oppostions best forward, or has that actually slipped the "Roper Out Brigades" attentions?
Incredible and short memories the lot of you.

By Dave Roe (81.131.30.142) on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 11:30 pm: Edit

I find this sudden anti Roper campaign strange. He was (deservedly) voted player of the season last year. Has he suddenly become a bad player ? Until Ritchie signed Roper was being played on the left of the back three, which is obviously more difficult for a right footer. Given the circumstances I think he has done well. Why do you think Lee chose Roper to play on the left side ? Could it be because he sees Roper has the most adaptable and dependable ?



By popperpancake (81.77.83.111) on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 - 01:44 am: Edit

I've got no problem with roper to be honest. Altho CL switched Hay to the left sided role b4 Ritchie came and Roper moved to the right. I think Roper played left against WBA and Carlisle then Hay played left side v Coventry and Stoke. I am 100% certain they switched cos i remember noticing it at Coventry.

By Don Rogers (213.122.84.139) on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 - 08:56 pm: Edit

After that lot, I AM confused - and I went to the game!

PS I didn't know what system we were playing either.