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Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Reports and reaction from the 2017-2018 season as Walsall finished 19th in League 1
otherbournemouthsaddler
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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:24 pm

El_Nombre wrote:
otherbournemouthsaddler wrote:I don't want to get into a slanging match about whether 22 years old is young or not but thought i would check on one of our strikers who started at the same age namely Matty Fryatt.

Lucky for me as maths is not my strong point they were born 10 years apart so makes the comparision easier- Fraytt 1986 Baka 1996

Baka made his debut in 2013-14 season
Fryatt made his debut in 2003-04 season

Fratt's LEAGUE stats for Walsall 2003/4 - jan 2006 apps- 70 goals -27

Baka for Walsall in only the LEAGUE 2013-to nearly end of 2017-2018 apps: 75 goals - 8

I'm not using this as a direct comparision between the two - Baka hardly got a sniff for the first three seasons and Matty Fraytt was a special finisher.

By the age of 22 it should give some indication of how good a footballer is likely to be at the current club- he might end up becoming a world beater but it's really not happening for him at Walsall.

League 2 might be a lot better for him - I really dont want us to go down to find out....


Your absolutely right, I don't think Baka is as good as Fryatt and I don't think he will turn out to be. I've made that pretty clear.

It's young enough to not be out of the realms of possibility though. Fryatt ALWAYS looked like he would be a good player. Some players do that. Michael Owen came out of the womb looking like he would score a ton of goals. But there are examples in the other direction.

Daryl Murphy had 34 goals in 226 appearances, a scoring rate of 0.14 a game, similar to Baka 0.13, before at the age of 30 going at virtually a goal every other game in the Championship for Ipswich when he signed properly.

Granted he looked better than Baka but I don't remember many people who thought Rickie Lambert would go at a goal every other game in the Premiership when he was struggling at Stockport County.

On a completely different scale (purely because these examples are more famous examples), I don't remember many people thinking Marko Materzzi would be going on to win World Cups and European Championships when he was getting sent off at Everton 3 times in 27 appearances and nobody in England wanted him. Luca Toni couldn't get out of Serie B, about League one level, until he turned 25, started banging them in and won a World Cup medal and a couple of League Titles at massive clubs.

22 is no age in football.

There we go, I've done it now, backed up my "you're just trying to disagree with people" argument with fact so now I will have too much time on my hands.



The problem for me though is the fact that we have used him as a first choice striker for the last two seasons and have got really bad returns for the investment.

You say Rickie Lambert struggled at Stockport County yet he scored 12 league goals in one season - which is more than Baka has done in his entire Walsall career. You'll never guess his age when he scored those 12 goals in a season - yup he was 22.....

As one final anecdote - i did some filming for Gainsborough Trinity a few seasons back. The media bloke there was a Telford fan and made a point in telling me that in all the years he had watched football he'd never seen a worse footballer play for his club while Baka was on loan there. At the time i thought it was harsh because of how young he was then- now that Baka is a grown man and has had 2 full seasons i think he may have a point.

When he is released by Walsall he will really struggle to find a club willing to give him the amount of time that we have - I've seen MUCH better in non league.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:39 pm

otherbournemouthsaddler wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
otherbournemouthsaddler wrote:I don't want to get into a slanging match about whether 22 years old is young or not but thought i would check on one of our strikers who started at the same age namely Matty Fryatt.

Lucky for me as maths is not my strong point they were born 10 years apart so makes the comparision easier- Fraytt 1986 Baka 1996

Baka made his debut in 2013-14 season
Fryatt made his debut in 2003-04 season

Fratt's LEAGUE stats for Walsall 2003/4 - jan 2006 apps- 70 goals -27

Baka for Walsall in only the LEAGUE 2013-to nearly end of 2017-2018 apps: 75 goals - 8

I'm not using this as a direct comparision between the two - Baka hardly got a sniff for the first three seasons and Matty Fraytt was a special finisher.

By the age of 22 it should give some indication of how good a footballer is likely to be at the current club- he might end up becoming a world beater but it's really not happening for him at Walsall.

League 2 might be a lot better for him - I really dont want us to go down to find out....


Your absolutely right, I don't think Baka is as good as Fryatt and I don't think he will turn out to be. I've made that pretty clear.

It's young enough to not be out of the realms of possibility though. Fryatt ALWAYS looked like he would be a good player. Some players do that. Michael Owen came out of the womb looking like he would score a ton of goals. But there are examples in the other direction.

Daryl Murphy had 34 goals in 226 appearances, a scoring rate of 0.14 a game, similar to Baka 0.13, before at the age of 30 going at virtually a goal every other game in the Championship for Ipswich when he signed properly.

Granted he looked better than Baka but I don't remember many people who thought Rickie Lambert would go at a goal every other game in the Premiership when he was struggling at Stockport County.

On a completely different scale (purely because these examples are more famous examples), I don't remember many people thinking Marko Materzzi would be going on to win World Cups and European Championships when he was getting sent off at Everton 3 times in 27 appearances and nobody in England wanted him. Luca Toni couldn't get out of Serie B, about League one level, until he turned 25, started banging them in and won a World Cup medal and a couple of League Titles at massive clubs.

22 is no age in football.

There we go, I've done it now, backed up my "you're just trying to disagree with people" argument with fact so now I will have too much time on my hands.



The problem for me though is the fact that we have used him as a first choice striker for the last two seasons and have got really bad returns for the investment.

You say Rickie Lambert struggled at Stockport County yet he scored 12 league goals in one season - which is more than Baka has done in his entire Walsall career. You'll never guess his age when he scored those 12 goals in a season - yup he was 22.....

As one final anecdote - i did some filming for Gainsborough Trinity a few seasons back. The media bloke there was a Telford fan and made a point in telling me that in all the years he had watched football he'd never seen a worse footballer play for his club while Baka was on loan there. At the time i thought it was harsh because of how young he was then- now that Baka is a grown man and has had 2 full seasons i think he may have a point.

When he is released by Walsall he will really struggle to find a club willing to give him the amount of time that we have - I've seen MUCH better in non league.


You didn't read what I said closely enough. Granted he looked better than Baka. I actually made that point in my post. I don't think many people touted him as a premier league striker at 22 when he was scoring the grand total of 12 in a season. I'm not asking for Baka to be a premier league striker. I'm asking him to be a bloody striker of any description at the moment! And actually that was in League 2, an easier league than the one Baka's stats are from especially at that time. 8 goals this season in League One is probably just as "impressive" (because neither are) as 12 in League two then.

He probably will end up in Non league. You are probably right. He may also end up at a low level league 2 team and actually improve past what we see now. Because he's still only 22. We've given him enough chances and we can't afford to give him any more. That doesn't mean he won't improve past the point of what we see now.
Last edited by El_Nombre on Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:48 pm

When you've made over 100 appearances age is no excuse. Most 22 year old strikers would give a right bollock to have 100 appearances under their belts at that age. He just ain't good enough to play for Walsall FC. Simple as. I hope he moves on, improves, makes a decent career in football and proves us wrong, but for now he isn't what we need.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:56 pm

scott_powell wrote:When you've made over 100 appearances age is no excuse. Most 22 year old strikers would give a right bollock to have 100 appearances under their belts at that age. He just ain't good enough to play for Walsall FC. Simple as. I hope he moves on, improves, makes a decent career in football and proves us wrong, but for now he isn't what we need.


Whose using it as an excuse? I've said exactly the same thing you have. We've given him enough chances. He needs to rebuild somewhere else.

But people pretending 22 is some grand old age and that he won't develop on and that, 100 appearances or not (a fair chunk on loan at nothing clubs), there's a good chance he simply won't be anywhere near his peak yet, are delusional. I've given perfectly good examples, as asked, why I think that.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:47 pm

El_Nombre wrote:
scott_powell wrote:When you've made over 100 appearances age is no excuse. Most 22 year old strikers would give a right bollock to have 100 appearances under their belts at that age. He just ain't good enough to play for Walsall FC. Simple as. I hope he moves on, improves, makes a decent career in football and proves us wrong, but for now he isn't what we need.


Whose using it as an excuse? I've said exactly the same thing you have. We've given him enough chances. He needs to rebuild somewhere else.

But people pretending 22 is some grand old age and that he won't develop on and that, 100 appearances or not (a fair chunk on loan at nothing clubs), there's a good chance he simply won't be anywhere near his peak yet, are delusional. I've given perfectly good examples, as asked, why I think that.


fudge me I wasn’t even replying to you. Just giving my opinion on Bakayoko :roll:

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:14 pm

otherbournemouthsaddler wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
otherbournemouthsaddler wrote:I don't want to get into a slanging match about whether 22 years old is young or not but thought i would check on one of our strikers who started at the same age namely Matty Fryatt.

Lucky for me as maths is not my strong point they were born 10 years apart so makes the comparision easier- Fraytt 1986 Baka 1996

Baka made his debut in 2013-14 season
Fryatt made his debut in 2003-04 season

Fratt's LEAGUE stats for Walsall 2003/4 - jan 2006 apps- 70 goals -27

Baka for Walsall in only the LEAGUE 2013-to nearly end of 2017-2018 apps: 75 goals - 8

I'm not using this as a direct comparision between the two - Baka hardly got a sniff for the first three seasons and Matty Fraytt was a special finisher.

By the age of 22 it should give some indication of how good a footballer is likely to be at the current club- he might end up becoming a world beater but it's really not happening for him at Walsall.

League 2 might be a lot better for him - I really dont want us to go down to find out....


Your absolutely right, I don't think Baka is as good as Fryatt and I don't think he will turn out to be. I've made that pretty clear.

It's young enough to not be out of the realms of possibility though. Fryatt ALWAYS looked like he would be a good player. Some players do that. Michael Owen came out of the womb looking like he would score a ton of goals. But there are examples in the other direction.

Daryl Murphy had 34 goals in 226 appearances, a scoring rate of 0.14 a game, similar to Baka 0.13, before at the age of 30 going at virtually a goal every other game in the Championship for Ipswich when he signed properly.

Granted he looked better than Baka but I don't remember many people who thought Rickie Lambert would go at a goal every other game in the Premiership when he was struggling at Stockport County.

On a completely different scale (purely because these examples are more famous examples), I don't remember many people thinking Marko Materzzi would be going on to win World Cups and European Championships when he was getting sent off at Everton 3 times in 27 appearances and nobody in England wanted him. Luca Toni couldn't get out of Serie B, about League one level, until he turned 25, started banging them in and won a World Cup medal and a couple of League Titles at massive clubs.

22 is no age in football.

There we go, I've done it now, backed up my "you're just trying to disagree with people" argument with fact so now I will have too much time on my hands.



The problem for me though is the fact that we have used him as a first choice striker for the last two seasons and have got really bad returns for the investment.

You say Rickie Lambert struggled at Stockport County yet he scored 12 league goals in one season - which is more than Baka has done in his entire Walsall career. You'll never guess his age when he scored those 12 goals in a season - yup he was 22.....

As one final anecdote - i did some filming for Gainsborough Trinity a few seasons back. The media bloke there was a Telford fan and made a point in telling me that in all the years he had watched football he'd never seen a worse footballer play for his club while Baka was on loan there. At the time i thought it was harsh because of how young he was then- now that Baka is a grown man and has had 2 full seasons i think he may have a point.

When he is released by Walsall he will really struggle to find a club willing to give him the amount of time that we have - I've seen MUCH better in non league.
That's ok he will get 2 weeks training at Mcdonalds and if he aint up to the mark there is always the Albanian car wash in Brownhills, he will be useful to to reach the top of range rovers :mrgreen:

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:49 pm

scott_powell wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
scott_powell wrote:When you've made over 100 appearances age is no excuse. Most 22 year old strikers would give a right bollock to have 100 appearances under their belts at that age. He just ain't good enough to play for Walsall FC. Simple as. I hope he moves on, improves, makes a decent career in football and proves us wrong, but for now he isn't what we need.


Whose using it as an excuse? I've said exactly the same thing you have. We've given him enough chances. He needs to rebuild somewhere else.

But people pretending 22 is some grand old age and that he won't develop on and that, 100 appearances or not (a fair chunk on loan at nothing clubs), there's a good chance he simply won't be anywhere near his peak yet, are delusional. I've given perfectly good examples, as asked, why I think that.


fudge me I wasn’t even replying to you. Just giving my opinion on Bakayoko :roll:


I mean apart from the fact I’m the person making the point about Bakayoko, and discussing his potential, forgive me, I didn’t realise I’m not allowed to respond to you.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:15 pm

El_Nombre wrote:
scott_powell wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
scott_powell wrote:When you've made over 100 appearances age is no excuse. Most 22 year old strikers would give a right bollock to have 100 appearances under their belts at that age. He just ain't good enough to play for Walsall FC. Simple as. I hope he moves on, improves, makes a decent career in football and proves us wrong, but for now he isn't what we need.


Whose using it as an excuse? I've said exactly the same thing you have. We've given him enough chances. He needs to rebuild somewhere else.

But people pretending 22 is some grand old age and that he won't develop on and that, 100 appearances or not (a fair chunk on loan at nothing clubs), there's a good chance he simply won't be anywhere near his peak yet, are delusional. I've given perfectly good examples, as asked, why I think that.


fudge me I wasn’t even replying to you. Just giving my opinion on Bakayoko :roll:


I mean apart from the fact I’m the person making the point about Bakayoko, and discussing his potential, forgive me, I didn’t realise I’m not allowed to respond to you.


No. Please don’t respond to me. Ever. If I’m replying to you, you know, quoting you, then reply. Until then, don’t. Cheers.

Everyone else, feel free :mrgreen:

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:18 pm

scott_powell wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
scott_powell wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
scott_powell wrote:When you've made over 100 appearances age is no excuse. Most 22 year old strikers would give a right bollock to have 100 appearances under their belts at that age. He just ain't good enough to play for Walsall FC. Simple as. I hope he moves on, improves, makes a decent career in football and proves us wrong, but for now he isn't what we need.


Whose using it as an excuse? I've said exactly the same thing you have. We've given him enough chances. He needs to rebuild somewhere else.

But people pretending 22 is some grand old age and that he won't develop on and that, 100 appearances or not (a fair chunk on loan at nothing clubs), there's a good chance he simply won't be anywhere near his peak yet, are delusional. I've given perfectly good examples, as asked, why I think that.


fudge me I wasn’t even replying to you. Just giving my opinion on Bakayoko :roll:


I mean apart from the fact I’m the person making the point about Bakayoko, and discussing his potential, forgive me, I didn’t realise I’m not allowed to respond to you.


No. Please don’t respond to me. Ever. If I’m replying to you, you know, quoting you, then reply. Until then, don’t. Cheers.

Everyone else, feel free :mrgreen:


Nah screw that

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:57 pm

scott_powell wrote:When you've made over 100 appearances age is no excuse. Most 22 year old strikers would give a right bollock to have 100 appearances under their belts at that age. He just ain't good enough to play for Walsall FC. Simple as. I hope he moves on, improves, makes a decent career in football and proves us wrong, but for now he isn't what we need.


100% Scott

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:01 pm

See how bad things are, we are ALL arguing because we are so angry that we are probably about to be relegated.
Bonser, his puppet Board, and Whitney have got us into this mess, by not sacking Whitney earlier, and allowing him to fritter away our meagre funds on two quite uniquely poor young (see even I know that players could be construed as young) reserves without much to commend either.
We have perhaps, one chance for three points on Saturday, and that will probably not be enough for safety after Tuesdays results.
But who can we use that can actually score the goals we require?
Desperate times indeed, very sad, and could well have been avoided.
I can see us being relegated in the last match at Fleetwood.
At least Macclesfield will be guaranteed 6 points! :oops:

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:03 pm

Mazza01 wrote:
scott_powell wrote:When you've made over 100 appearances age is no excuse. Most 22 year old strikers would give a right bollock to have 100 appearances under their belts at that age. He just ain't good enough to play for Walsall FC. Simple as. I hope he moves on, improves, makes a decent career in football and proves us wrong, but for now he isn't what we need.


100% Scott


100% agreed. Sorry about the earlier rant, I was so annoyed at Whitters being utterly PC.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:19 pm

Mazza01 wrote:
scott_powell wrote:When you've made over 100 appearances age is no excuse. Most 22 year old strikers would give a right bollock to have 100 appearances under their belts at that age. He just ain't good enough to play for Walsall FC. Simple as. I hope he moves on, improves, makes a decent career in football and proves us wrong, but for now he isn't what we need.


100% Scott
I agree 100% as well, Baka's career started in Dutch football, coming from Sierra Leone. He was prolific at walsall youth and reserve level and was given a youth scholarship. Since then in 2013 he has made over 100 appearances for walsall,Southport, Telford and Worcester scoring a total of 13 goals in the league, and he is supposed to be a league one standard footballer??? :shock: sorry but anyone that has kept on playing him after those shocking stats wants to take a look at their own ability to manager a football side.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:39 pm

Mazza01 wrote:
scott_powell wrote:When you've made over 100 appearances age is no excuse. Most 22 year old strikers would give a right bollock to have 100 appearances under their belts at that age. He just ain't good enough to play for Walsall FC. Simple as. I hope he moves on, improves, makes a decent career in football and proves us wrong, but for now he isn't what we need.


100% Scott


Were those the examples you were after Mazza earlier? Of players improving after 22?

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:43 pm

El_Nombre wrote:
otherbournemouthsaddler wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
otherbournemouthsaddler wrote:I don't want to get into a slanging match about whether 22 years old is young or not but thought i would check on one of our strikers who started at the same age namely Matty Fryatt.

Lucky for me as maths is not my strong point they were born 10 years apart so makes the comparision easier- Fraytt 1986 Baka 1996

Baka made his debut in 2013-14 season
Fryatt made his debut in 2003-04 season

Fratt's LEAGUE stats for Walsall 2003/4 - jan 2006 apps- 70 goals -27

Baka for Walsall in only the LEAGUE 2013-to nearly end of 2017-2018 apps: 75 goals - 8

I'm not using this as a direct comparision between the two - Baka hardly got a sniff for the first three seasons and Matty Fraytt was a special finisher.

By the age of 22 it should give some indication of how good a footballer is likely to be at the current club- he might end up becoming a world beater but it's really not happening for him at Walsall.

League 2 might be a lot better for him - I really dont want us to go down to find out....


Your absolutely right, I don't think Baka is as good as Fryatt and I don't think he will turn out to be. I've made that pretty clear.

It's young enough to not be out of the realms of possibility though. Fryatt ALWAYS looked like he would be a good player. Some players do that. Michael Owen came out of the womb looking like he would score a ton of goals. But there are examples in the other direction.

Daryl Murphy had 34 goals in 226 appearances, a scoring rate of 0.14 a game, similar to Baka 0.13, before at the age of 30 going at virtually a goal every other game in the Championship for Ipswich when he signed properly.

Granted he looked better than Baka but I don't remember many people who thought Rickie Lambert would go at a goal every other game in the Premiership when he was struggling at Stockport County.

On a completely different scale (purely because these examples are more famous examples), I don't remember many people thinking Marko Materzzi would be going on to win World Cups and European Championships when he was getting sent off at Everton 3 times in 27 appearances and nobody in England wanted him. Luca Toni couldn't get out of Serie B, about League one level, until he turned 25, started banging them in and won a World Cup medal and a couple of League Titles at massive clubs.

22 is no age in football.

There we go, I've done it now, backed up my "you're just trying to disagree with people" argument with fact so now I will have too much time on my hands.



The problem for me though is the fact that we have used him as a first choice striker for the last two seasons and have got really bad returns for the investment.

You say Rickie Lambert struggled at Stockport County yet he scored 12 league goals in one season - which is more than Baka has done in his entire Walsall career. You'll never guess his age when he scored those 12 goals in a season - yup he was 22.....

As one final anecdote - i did some filming for Gainsborough Trinity a few seasons back. The media bloke there was a Telford fan and made a point in telling me that in all the years he had watched football he'd never seen a worse footballer play for his club while Baka was on loan there. At the time i thought it was harsh because of how young he was then- now that Baka is a grown man and has had 2 full seasons i think he may have a point.

When he is released by Walsall he will really struggle to find a club willing to give him the amount of time that we have - I've seen MUCH better in non league.


You didn't read what I said closely enough. Granted he looked better than Baka. I actually made that point in my post. I don't think many people touted him as a premier league striker at 22 when he was scoring the grand total of 12 in a season. I'm not asking for Baka to be a premier league striker. I'm asking him to be a bloody striker of any description at the moment! And actually that was in League 2, an easier league than the one Baka's stats are from especially at that time. 8 goals this season in League One is probably just as "impressive" (because neither are) as 12 in League two then.

He probably will end up in Non league. You are probably right. He may also end up at a low level league 2 team and actually improve past what we see now. Because he's still only 22. We've given him enough chances and we can't afford to give him any more. That doesn't mean he won't improve past the point of what we see now.


I did write a detailed response but for some reason when i checked later it wasn't there.

Anyway long story short - Baka hasn't scored 8 goals in the league this season and i'm struggling to see what the argument is - he's 22 and had 2 full seasons - he hasn't improved and won't improve at this club. The fact that the board and previous management did not see the forward position as a priority is baffling. The whole Makris affair looks stranger the more you look at it.

I still think we will get out of this mess but it looks like we are back to throwing free transfers at the wall and hoping they will stick

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:08 pm

Exile, with 7 pages so far on this thread surely the "there are more posts when we lose" camp are winning?

And I could add more posts trying to help AM understand my simple point but have given up on him as a lost cause.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:44 pm

Whitters wrote:Exile, with 7 pages so far on this thread surely the "there are more posts when we lose" camp are winning?

And I could add more posts trying to help AM understand my simple point but have given up on him as a lost cause.

:mrgreen: well, this is a pivotal moment (amongst 43), and I’d argue that this has turned into a bit of a slugfest regarding the pros and cons of Bakabeyond rather than an outright moaning session.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:04 pm

Exile wrote:
Whitters wrote:Exile, with 7 pages so far on this thread surely the "there are more posts when we lose" camp are winning?

And I could add more posts trying to help AM understand my simple point but have given up on him as a lost cause.

:mrgreen: well, this is a pivotal moment (amongst 43), and I’d argue that this has turned into a bit of a slugfest regarding the pros and cons of Bakabeyond rather than an outright moaning session.


fudge hell. He's a pimp now as well as a shot shy striker ! :mrgreen:

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:21 am

otherbournemouthsaddler wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
otherbournemouthsaddler wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
otherbournemouthsaddler wrote:I don't want to get into a slanging match about whether 22 years old is young or not but thought i would check on one of our strikers who started at the same age namely Matty Fryatt.

Lucky for me as maths is not my strong point they were born 10 years apart so makes the comparision easier- Fraytt 1986 Baka 1996

Baka made his debut in 2013-14 season
Fryatt made his debut in 2003-04 season

Fratt's LEAGUE stats for Walsall 2003/4 - jan 2006 apps- 70 goals -27

Baka for Walsall in only the LEAGUE 2013-to nearly end of 2017-2018 apps: 75 goals - 8

I'm not using this as a direct comparision between the two - Baka hardly got a sniff for the first three seasons and Matty Fraytt was a special finisher.

By the age of 22 it should give some indication of how good a footballer is likely to be at the current club- he might end up becoming a world beater but it's really not happening for him at Walsall.

League 2 might be a lot better for him - I really dont want us to go down to find out....


Your absolutely right, I don't think Baka is as good as Fryatt and I don't think he will turn out to be. I've made that pretty clear.

It's young enough to not be out of the realms of possibility though. Fryatt ALWAYS looked like he would be a good player. Some players do that. Michael Owen came out of the womb looking like he would score a ton of goals. But there are examples in the other direction.

Daryl Murphy had 34 goals in 226 appearances, a scoring rate of 0.14 a game, similar to Baka 0.13, before at the age of 30 going at virtually a goal every other game in the Championship for Ipswich when he signed properly.

Granted he looked better than Baka but I don't remember many people who thought Rickie Lambert would go at a goal every other game in the Premiership when he was struggling at Stockport County.

On a completely different scale (purely because these examples are more famous examples), I don't remember many people thinking Marko Materzzi would be going on to win World Cups and European Championships when he was getting sent off at Everton 3 times in 27 appearances and nobody in England wanted him. Luca Toni couldn't get out of Serie B, about League one level, until he turned 25, started banging them in and won a World Cup medal and a couple of League Titles at massive clubs.

22 is no age in football.

There we go, I've done it now, backed up my "you're just trying to disagree with people" argument with fact so now I will have too much time on my hands.



The problem for me though is the fact that we have used him as a first choice striker for the last two seasons and have got really bad returns for the investment.

You say Rickie Lambert struggled at Stockport County yet he scored 12 league goals in one season - which is more than Baka has done in his entire Walsall career. You'll never guess his age when he scored those 12 goals in a season - yup he was 22.....

As one final anecdote - i did some filming for Gainsborough Trinity a few seasons back. The media bloke there was a Telford fan and made a point in telling me that in all the years he had watched football he'd never seen a worse footballer play for his club while Baka was on loan there. At the time i thought it was harsh because of how young he was then- now that Baka is a grown man and has had 2 full seasons i think he may have a point.

When he is released by Walsall he will really struggle to find a club willing to give him the amount of time that we have - I've seen MUCH better in non league.


You didn't read what I said closely enough. Granted he looked better than Baka. I actually made that point in my post. I don't think many people touted him as a premier league striker at 22 when he was scoring the grand total of 12 in a season. I'm not asking for Baka to be a premier league striker. I'm asking him to be a bloody striker of any description at the moment! And actually that was in League 2, an easier league than the one Baka's stats are from especially at that time. 8 goals this season in League One is probably just as "impressive" (because neither are) as 12 in League two then.

He probably will end up in Non league. You are probably right. He may also end up at a low level league 2 team and actually improve past what we see now. Because he's still only 22. We've given him enough chances and we can't afford to give him any more. That doesn't mean he won't improve past the point of what we see now.


I did write a detailed response but for some reason when i checked later it wasn't there.

Anyway long story short - Baka hasn't scored 8 goals in the league this season and i'm struggling to see what the argument is - he's 22 and had 2 full seasons - he hasn't improved and won't improve at this club. The fact that the board and previous management did not see the forward position as a priority is baffling. The whole Makris affair looks stranger the more you look at it.

I still think we will get out of this mess but it looks like we are back to throwing free transfers at the wall and hoping they will stick


That scoring 12 league goals in league 2 14 years ago isn’t really all that impressive? And certainly didn’t put Rickie Lambert on the radar of premier league clubs, not by any stretch of the imagination and that he improved immeasurably after the age of 22. And that there are plenty other examples of players that did this.

If you are asking me to defend Makris, I can’t. We should have signed a proper striker in July. It’s blatantly obvious.

But it’s a decent discussion. Thanks for not assuming I’m just having a go. It’s all opinion.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:13 am

Isn't it the case that the owner and the manager(as his hands are tied by budget) search year after year for a home grown striker because this position is the one position that cannot be filled from outside the club as a decent stiker costs.And if you do manage to raise a home grown one its as good as money in the bank.Its all about money.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:43 am

NEWPORT SADDLERS DAD wrote:Isn't it the case that the owner and the manager(as his hands are tied by budget) search year after year for a home grown striker because this position is the one position that cannot be filled from outside the club as a decent stiker costs.And if you do manage to raise a home grown one its as good as money in the bank.Its all about money.

Yes but we got Bradshaw for next to nothing, and look how he turned out :wink:

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:41 am

Whitters wrote:Exile, with 7 pages so far on this thread surely the "there are more posts when we lose" camp are winning?

And I could add more posts trying to help AM understand my simple point but have given up on him as a lost cause.


Your 'simple point' was, that the poor lad is only 22 (ah diddums) so don't pick on him for being an utterly useless lump, just taking up a vital 11th red shirt thereby robbing us of another player on the field.
My god, when I was 22 I was doing the accounts for 3 Companies (despite failing my maths GCE!) if I had cocked up, I'm sure my employers wouldn't have said, ah he's only 22 so there, there, it's all right that he has us in court for false accounting practices.
You have obviously never seen him on the field (I'll not say play, cus he doesn't) so we can all excuse your PC attempt to protect the poor wee lump of a lad of the criticism he so richly deserves.
Like I say I am angry and ashamed that we are most probably going to be relegated, our failure to score on so many occasions being a contributory factor!
I certainly don't need protecting as a lost cause, thank you for your efforts nevertheless :wink: !

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:58 am

Ancient Moaner wrote:
Whitters wrote:Exile, with 7 pages so far on this thread surely the "there are more posts when we lose" camp are winning?

And I could add more posts trying to help AM understand my simple point but have given up on him as a lost cause.


Your 'simple point' was, that the poor lad is only 22 (ah diddums) so don't pick on him for being an utterly useless lump, just taking up a vital 11th red shirt thereby robbing us of another player on the field.
My god, when I was 22 I was doing the accounts for 3 Companies (despite failing my maths GCE!) if I had cocked up, I'm sure my employers wouldn't have said, ah he's only 22 so there, there, it's all right that he has us in court for false accounting practices.
You have obviously never seen him on the field (I'll not say play, cus he doesn't) so we can all excuse your PC attempt to protect the poor wee lump of a lad of the criticism he so richly deserves.
Like I say I am angry and ashamed that we are most probably going to be relegated, our failure to score on so many occasions being a contributory factor!
I certainly don't need protecting as a lost cause, thank you for your efforts nevertheless :wink: !


There's a difference between fairly criticising somebody, which Baka deserves, and doing what you are doing. Which is throwing out weak insults and implying he can't possibly improve at the positively ancient age of 22.

But hey, you added up figures in 2 separate columns and hoped they came to the same number when you were a kid so the pressure of being an professional footballer would be nothing to you.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:50 am

Ancient Moaner wrote:
Whitters wrote:Exile, with 7 pages so far on this thread surely the "there are more posts when we lose" camp are winning?

And I could add more posts trying to help AM understand my simple point but have given up on him as a lost cause.


Your 'simple point' was, that the poor lad is only 22 (ah diddums) so don't pick on him for being an utterly useless lump, just taking up a vital 11th red shirt thereby robbing us of another player on the field.
My god, when I was 22 I was doing the accounts for 3 Companies (despite failing my maths GCE!) if I had cocked up, I'm sure my employers wouldn't have said, ah he's only 22 so there, there, it's all right that he has us in court for false accounting practices.
You have obviously never seen him on the field (I'll not say play, cus he doesn't) so we can all excuse your PC attempt to protect the poor wee lump of a lad of the criticism he so richly deserves.
Like I say I am angry and ashamed that we are most probably going to be relegated, our failure to score on so many occasions being a contributory factor!
I certainly don't need protecting as a lost cause, thank you for your efforts nevertheless :wink: !


What on earth are you twittering on about?

Your posts are riven with now characteristic absurd hyperbole that demands robust criticism, precisely of the kind you have invited and cultivated. If it's not some outlandish portent of doom for the football club (still somehow not in the National League North :roll: ), it's the attempted demolition of an individual player, utterly and completely and unto the Nth generation.

I really must question your basic football knowledge, if you think a player struggling in one obviously mismanaged team with flat-line confidence was never fit to pull on a shirt of any colour and will never be again in the future, under any circumstances.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:28 am

Baka has been our main striker for the past two seasons because he has been our best striker for the past two seasons, apart from when we had Tyler Roberts on loan. At the start of last season we signed at great expense Makris and Simeon Jackson, and nobody expected Bakayoko, who had hardly played in the season before, to feature much.

He is better than Makris, Jackson, Candlin, Agyei, Shaibu, and Ngoy. Is he as good as Bradshaw, Fryatt, Grigg or Deeney when they were in their last season at the club? No of course not, but he is better than many of the other strikers we have had in the past ten years.

I wish we had a better striker to play up front but we don't. And of course the lack of creativity from midfield and the frequent absence of decent wingers has made the position of striker even more difficult than usual, because very few chances are created each match.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:35 am

Harry wrote:Baka has been our main striker for the past two seasons because he has been our best striker for the past two seasons, apart from when we had Tyler Roberts on loan. At the start of last season we signed at great expense Makris and Simeon Jackson, and nobody expected Bakayoko, who had hardly played in the season before, to feature much.

He is better than Makris, Jackson, Candlin, Agyei, Shaibu, and Ngoy. Is he as good as Bradshaw, Fryatt, Grigg or Deeney when they were in their last season at the club? No of course not, but he is better than many of the other strikers we have had in the past ten years.

I wish we had a better striker to play up front but we don't. And of course the lack of creativity from midfield and the frequent absence of decent wingers has made the position of striker even more difficult than usual, because very few chances are created each match.


:shock:

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:50 am

chunkster wrote:
NEWPORT SADDLERS DAD wrote:Isn't it the case that the owner and the manager(as his hands are tied by budget) search year after year for a home grown striker because this position is the one position that cannot be filled from outside the club as a decent stiker costs.And if you do manage to raise a home grown one its as good as money in the bank.Its all about money.

Yes but we got Bradshaw for next to nothing, and look how he turned out :wink:

We didn't. We paid Bradshaw well to move from Shrewsbury.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:13 am

He's nowhere near as good as Ageyi or Ngoy.

I can't argue on the others named.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:48 am

I think the club have stuck by him because expected his development to accelerate this season which clearly hasn't been the case.

The biggest mistake Whitney made was putting all his eggs and not bringing in some quality to take the pressure off the lad.

I think the club release him in the Summer, but for the time being we have to prey that he steps up as there is a lot riding on his shoulders.

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Re: Scunthorpe United (A) 21st Apr, 3pm

Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:08 pm

Harry wrote:Baka has been our main striker for the past two seasons because he has been our best striker for the past two seasons, apart from when we had Tyler Roberts on loan. At the start of last season we signed at great expense Makris and Simeon Jackson, and nobody expected Bakayoko, who had hardly played in the season before, to feature much.

He is better than Makris, Jackson, Candlin, Agyei, Shaibu, and Ngoy. Is he as good as Bradshaw, Fryatt, Grigg or Deeney when they were in their last season at the club? No of course not, but he is better than many of the other strikers we have had in the past ten years.

I wish we had a better striker to play up front but we don't. And of course the lack of creativity from midfield and the frequent absence of decent wingers has made the position of striker even more difficult than usual, because very few chances are created each match.


And you know this based on what evidence ?
How many chances has Candlin had in the first team ?
So in your eyes a striker who is senior in years and appearances, but can't hit a barn door, is better than an up and coming teenage striker who hasn't been even given a chance ?

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