Welcome. This site is an archived version of the previous UpTheSaddlers forum (December 2004 to May 2018). To visit the new UTS website, please click here.

Bury (H) Apr 7th, 3pm

Reports and reaction from the 2017-2018 season as Walsall finished 19th in League 1
leics_saddler
UTS Legend
 
Posts: 1688
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:12 pm

Re: Bury (H) Apr 7th, 3pm

Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:25 pm

I'm sorry PT but that post was highly credible until you proposed John Kelly.
Meanwhile that Dogface line up turned me a bit pale. :mrgreen:

Enough of that anyway, we got a win.
And against our real bogey side for good measure.
I don't care if it went in off his arse, the result was the be all and end all.

Walsallone
UTS Legend
 
Posts: 1901
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:43 pm

Re: Bury (H) Apr 7th, 3pm

Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:50 pm

I don't think this is anywhere near the worst team in 25 years. We had 5 years of Hibbett,2 years of Merson the second of which we used 47 players!!! As someone said above the Hutchings team was also worse . We have some good players but unfortunately the squad was very unbalanced from the start and that was made worse in January. Clearly there is much rebuilding to be done but with some experienced additions we will be ok. next season. UTS

philthesaddler
Site Addict
 
Posts: 5371
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:13 pm
Location: Bescot Stadium, 'the stadium that never closes'. Opening hours Mon-Fri 10am-4pm

Re: Bury (H) Apr 7th, 3pm

Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:13 am

SoccerHQ wrote:
PT wrote:
philthesaddler wrote:My god what a mess Whitney has left.

Pretty sure that’s the worst XI we’ve had in the last 25 years - in fact I challenge anyone to come up with a worse starting line up than that from that time period.


Good challenge. Given it a decent think and reckon you’re right. 25 years is the right cut off too as it takes out Hibbitt’s first two seasons which would have contained worse starting elevens.

That said, and this is quite telling, I think even some of those early Hibbitt teams would have had four or five players who might have got in yesterday’s team. Marsh for Leahy, Dean Smith for either CH, John Kelly for Flo, Stuart Rimmer for either forward and maybe even Adrian Littejohn for Morris or the other centre-forward.

Difficult comparing eras and teams but I’ve just named half an outfield team from a side that finished 16th in the fourth tier that you could make a case for being better than we’ve now got.

Hopefully we’ll stay up. But either way, Dean has a massive job on his hands. I would say bigger than the task the previous Dean to manage us had. Let’s give this one the time we gave the previous one.


Would go for the Hutchings era for worst Walsall team of that time span.

Jon Brain in goal.....

Ryan McGivern was regular left back.

Clayton McDonald and Manny Smith was CB combination. (Ollie Lanchashire the back up).

Aaron Lescott at RB.

Think the tipping point is that Matt Richards and Taundry started the season as the first choice midfield pair. :shock:

Only decent regulars in that 10/11 were Macken (at 35) and Julian Gray.


I did say “starting line up”, as in a specific starting XI, not “team”.

The Dogface 10/11 team was poor, I shudder to think of it, but as you mention, it had the excellent Gray, with some quality upfront, albeit old quality, class is permanent however, and I don’t think Shaibu and Baka put together have got a quarter of the class Macken had.

Wasn’t it 10/11 that we also had Marco Reich? We did have Byfield, Westlake (who was decent), Lancashire etc. So I think you’d struggle to find a starting XI quite as poor from that season.

That’s my point - even at the low point of Dogfaces reign, we still had a spark in the side, a player who could produce a bit of magic. Looking at the starting XI vs Bury, we don’t have that - I mean, when you’re missing an injured Left back turned midfielder (Edwards) for creativity, you know you’ve got issues!

Mazza01
UTS Legend
 
Posts: 1774
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:52 pm

Re: Bury (H) Apr 7th, 3pm

Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:52 am

philthesaddler wrote:
SoccerHQ wrote:
PT wrote:
philthesaddler wrote:My god what a mess Whitney has left.

Pretty sure that’s the worst XI we’ve had in the last 25 years - in fact I challenge anyone to come up with a worse starting line up than that from that time period.


Good challenge. Given it a decent think and reckon you’re right. 25 years is the right cut off too as it takes out Hibbitt’s first two seasons which would have contained worse starting elevens.

That said, and this is quite telling, I think even some of those early Hibbitt teams would have had four or five players who might have got in yesterday’s team. Marsh for Leahy, Dean Smith for either CH, John Kelly for Flo, Stuart Rimmer for either forward and maybe even Adrian Littejohn for Morris or the other centre-forward.

Difficult comparing eras and teams but I’ve just named half an outfield team from a side that finished 16th in the fourth tier that you could make a case for being better than we’ve now got.

Hopefully we’ll stay up. But either way, Dean has a massive job on his hands. I would say bigger than the task the previous Dean to manage us had. Let’s give this one the time we gave the previous one.


Would go for the Hutchings era for worst Walsall team of that time span.

Jon Brain in goal.....

Ryan McGivern was regular left back.

Clayton McDonald and Manny Smith was CB combination. (Ollie Lanchashire the back up).

Aaron Lescott at RB.

Think the tipping point is that Matt Richards and Taundry started the season as the first choice midfield pair. :shock:

Only decent regulars in that 10/11 were Macken (at 35) and Julian Gray.


I did say “starting line up”, as in a specific starting XI, not “team”.

The Dogface 10/11 team was poor, I shudder to think of it, but as you mention, it had the excellent Gray, with some quality upfront, albeit old quality, class is permanent however, and I don’t think Shaibu and Baka put together have got a quarter of the class Macken had.

Wasn’t it 10/11 that we also had Marco Reich? We did have Byfield, Westlake (who was decent), Lancashire etc. So I think you’d struggle to find a starting XI quite as poor from that season.

That’s my point - even at the low point of Dogfaces reign, we still had a spark in the side, a player who could produce a bit of magic. Looking at the starting XI vs Bury, we don’t have that - I mean, when you’re missing an injured Left back turned midfielder (Edwards) for creativity, you know you’ve got issues!


Take the loans out of this squad , then for me this is the worst set of players I have seen in my 23 years of following the club.

Just imagine Saturdays line up with out Fitzwater , Shaibu and Ngoy!

User avatar
Addis Saddler
UTS Regular
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:37 am
Location: Was Addis Ababa, now Addiscombe

Re: Bury (H) Apr 7th, 3pm

Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:58 am

On the drive home I was thinking I'd have Hanson and Ismail out of that Bury team and even though they are mid-30s I'd be tempted by Danns and Murphy too.

saddlertd
UTS Veteran
 
Posts: 571
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:51 pm

Re: Bury (H) Apr 7th, 3pm

Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:59 am

Geordiesaddler wrote:Does he?? All his life, if you believe what "Ozzy" speaks of in the media, which I do because he seems like an honest bloke, he's wanted people in football to believe in his ability and give him a chance. Where else has this happened apart from Walsall FC?? We got him on a free transfer from Peterborough where he'd been hit and miss and played very much second fiddle to a few of their stars so he came here and became the main man, his dream realised courtesy of Walsall FC. Now obviously he will now do what all these people do and eff off somewhere else.....ditto Bradshaw injury plagued winger from league 2 Shropshite, soon to be league one bit-part for relegated Barnsley....Brandy????? Grigg, oh isn't he great scoring all those goals in league one for Wigan like he did for us, what an improvement in his career. Sawyers playing for the oh so mighty Brentford, just because our ex-manager's there, ditto million poundo crocko rico. And they're the success stories. Good luck to Ozzy, I hope he makes a few quid out of his obvious talent and I've enjoyed watching him play for us. The end. I hope one day we can have players that believe in Walsall FC, so we as fans of said club, can in turn believe in both, like things used to be, and should be.


Ozzie owes us more than we owe him. We gave him his big chance, and now he’s going to eff off to a “bigger club” (if Rotherham is a bigger club!). Well, bye. Once he’s gone, he’s just another ex-player - he’s not a Walsall legend like Buckley, Colin Taylor, Harrison, Bennett, Leitao, Walker etc.

User avatar
Cheesebag
Site Addict
 
Posts: 4801
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:00 pm
Location: At poo poo's house, apparently ;)

Re: Bury (H) Apr 7th, 3pm

Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:04 am

Keates trying to get a tune out of Whitneys dross... I'll take 3 points and being more organised. The only players I'd want back out of the lot that started are Roberts and Fizzywater... With the addition of the Roberts that came on and Kinder Joy off the bench.

Get over the line and clear them out....

SoccerHQ
Site Addict
 
Posts: 3661
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:01 pm

Re: Bury (H) Apr 7th, 3pm

Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:12 am

philthesaddler wrote:
SoccerHQ wrote:
PT wrote:
philthesaddler wrote:My god what a mess Whitney has left.

Pretty sure that’s the worst XI we’ve had in the last 25 years - in fact I challenge anyone to come up with a worse starting line up than that from that time period.


Good challenge. Given it a decent think and reckon you’re right. 25 years is the right cut off too as it takes out Hibbitt’s first two seasons which would have contained worse starting elevens.

That said, and this is quite telling, I think even some of those early Hibbitt teams would have had four or five players who might have got in yesterday’s team. Marsh for Leahy, Dean Smith for either CH, John Kelly for Flo, Stuart Rimmer for either forward and maybe even Adrian Littejohn for Morris or the other centre-forward.

Difficult comparing eras and teams but I’ve just named half an outfield team from a side that finished 16th in the fourth tier that you could make a case for being better than we’ve now got.

Hopefully we’ll stay up. But either way, Dean has a massive job on his hands. I would say bigger than the task the previous Dean to manage us had. Let’s give this one the time we gave the previous one.


Would go for the Hutchings era for worst Walsall team of that time span.

Jon Brain in goal.....

Ryan McGivern was regular left back.

Clayton McDonald and Manny Smith was CB combination. (Ollie Lanchashire the back up).

Aaron Lescott at RB.

Think the tipping point is that Matt Richards and Taundry started the season as the first choice midfield pair. :shock:

Only decent regulars in that 10/11 were Macken (at 35) and Julian Gray.


I did say “starting line up”, as in a specific starting XI, not “team”.

The Dogface 10/11 team was poor, I shudder to think of it, but as you mention, it had the excellent Gray, with some quality upfront, albeit old quality, class is permanent however, and I don’t think Shaibu and Baka put together have got a quarter of the class Macken had.

Wasn’t it 10/11 that we also had Marco Reich? We did have Byfield, Westlake (who was decent), Lancashire etc. So I think you’d struggle to find a starting XI quite as poor from that season.

That’s my point - even at the low point of Dogfaces reign, we still had a spark in the side, a player who could produce a bit of magic. Looking at the starting XI vs Bury, we don’t have that - I mean, when you’re missing an injured Left back turned midfielder (Edwards) for creativity, you know you’ve got issues!


Surely that's Ozzy? Shame he dosen't want to know any longer but scored 30 goals in last two seasons so if that isn't a player who can provide a spark I don't know what is.

It's a little harsh on someone like Chambers aswell. Yes he's old now and probably needs to be start to be phased out of the team but he's been a very decent defensive midfielder in the third tier for many years now so certainly better than what Taundry or Richards ever provided. Flo has proved himself at this level before, shame he's broken now.

Reich was under Mullen 08/09.

The team that lost to Tranmere in October 2010 and went bottom of league 1 was:

Brain
Lescott
Manny Smith
McGivern
Davies (?)
Steve Jones (he actually had a decent previous season, left just before Smith was appointed).
Matt Richards
Taundry
Martin Devaney
Macken
Reuben Reid (had a good career in league 1)

Subs

Clayton McDonald
Grigg
Alex Nicholls

Poor poor team with three good players in it.

I'd still say this present 11 has potential to be better.

Nicholls looks an exceptional young keeper in the making, I like the look of Fitzwater so wouldn't be against him coming back on a season long loan or signed permanently if he's out of contract and Dobson seems to have improved although he dosen't seem a Keates favourite given he couldn't get a start after last week.

What needs to be done is two decent FBs found, a better CH to replace Guthrie who can go to the bench, a replacement for Chambers, a replacement for Ozzy (good luck with that one), a decent wideman and a decent striker.

Very difficult task that particularly with the miniscule budget DK will get. Some will have to be loans, some will be non league signings, maybe the budget will be pushed to get the odd experienced league one player out of favour at his club like James Wilson and Laird were. Let's hope DK is better at handling them than Whitney was!

I don't envy that task, particularly for a manager who's only just new to league one.

User avatar
Soton Saddler
UTS Veteran
 
Posts: 479
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:01 am

Re: Bury (H) Apr 7th, 3pm

Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:53 pm

I think what's potentially good about this situation is avoiding relegation under Whitney would have felt like a bad season but avoiding relegation with Keates in charge would feel like he's succeeded in his first task. That small sip of success can be built on rather than the slow circling of the drain feeling a lot of people had this season before.

Smith had that, avoided relegation, with a bit of luck, and then started to build a team - fingers crossed!! :)

Up The Saddlers.

User avatar
PT
Site Addict
 
Posts: 3733
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 8:04 pm
Location: Liverpool and skaville

Re: Bury (H) Apr 7th, 3pm

Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:17 pm

Soton Saddler wrote:I think what's potentially good about this situation is avoiding relegation under Whitney would have felt like a bad season but avoiding relegation with Keates in charge would feel like he's succeeded in his first task. That small sip of success can be built on rather than the slow circling of the drain feeling a lot of people had this season before.

Smith had that, avoided relegation, with a bit of luck, and then started to build a team - fingers crossed!! :)

Up The Saddlers.


I agree with this. The fanbase were pretty universal in what a mess we felt Hutchings left. This afforded Smith lots of time and patience. The same will be true this time round.

In retrospect, this same principle made life harder for Whitney.

User avatar
chunkster
Site Addict
 
Posts: 3612
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:11 pm

Re: Bury (H) Apr 7th, 3pm

Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:17 pm

As welsh is still under the weather, is someone going to take the mantle of posting a post match thread for tomorrow's game :D

User avatar
giglee
 
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:26 pm

Re: Bury (H) Apr 7th, 3pm

Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:21 pm

chunkster wrote:As welsh is still under the weather, is someone going to take the mantle of posting a post match thread for tomorrow's game :D


I’ll give it a go later tonight.

User avatar
chunkster
Site Addict
 
Posts: 3612
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:11 pm

Re: Bury (H) Apr 7th, 3pm

Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:15 pm

giglee wrote:
chunkster wrote:As welsh is still under the weather, is someone going to take the mantle of posting a post match thread for tomorrow's game :D


I’ll give it a go later tonight.
Cheers :wink:

Previous
Return to 2017-18 Season

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests