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Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Reports and reaction from the 2017-2018 season as Walsall finished 19th in League 1
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SaddlerSteve
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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:18 pm

coop63 wrote:
BathSaddler wrote:Well you have to laugh. Still not out of the relegation battle in my view, although we probably have just enough to overcome the general tactical ineptitude and poor application to survive.


You may laugh Bathsaddler but me and many others definitely won’t.

Who will carry the can this week, JW, the players, not dealing with their press (and I don’t mean the Rochdale Gazzette either!) For God’s sake when will we learn about his inability to manage a group of players?


Just heard his interview on WM.

Started by saying we didn’t have any energy.
Apparently it was a game too far for our team - that’ll be why he picked the same team to start as Saturday then?
Said he wasn’t going to throw players under the bus and wasn’t going to blame the fans for their reaction.
He basically sounded clueless as to what just happened.

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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:20 pm

BathSaddler wrote:
coop63 wrote:
BathSaddler wrote:Well you have to laugh. Still not out of the relegation battle in my view, although we probably have just enough to overcome the general tactical ineptitude and poor application to survive.


You may laugh Bathsaddler but me and many others definitely won’t.

Who will carry the can this week, JW, the players, not dealing with their press (and I don’t mean the Rochdale Gazzette either!) For God’s sake when will we learn about his inability to manage a group of players?


Sometimes you just have to laugh, coop63, because with Whitney in charge it's just a farce. He is so out of his depth it's untrue.

He should have gone at the end of last season and we are in the same situation again. Only the paucity of decent teams in League One has saved us - well, that and someone called Oztumer.


Apologies Bathsaddler - in my animation to get typing I misunderstood your point if I’m honest :roll:

Seems you were thinking exactly the same as me - I guess I’d have simply added a few words after your first comment - ‘we’ll you have to laugh’ AT JW BEING A COMPLETELY OUT OF HIS DEPTH SQUARE PEG IN A ROUND HOLE

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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:21 pm

chunkster wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
chunkster wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
chunkster wrote:I don't care about the win against southend, the game tonight meant more to me, against the bottom team, so as to measure our progress, and we are dog shite. :|


Wait so a win against a team doesn’t count because a different game “means more” to you?

Interesting thought process there. I’m not defending tonight’s result just baffled by that thought process.
We lose to the team in our division that are bottom? 3-0 ? and we beat a middling team that have been on a bit of a run? it doesn't take a lot to baffle you does it.


Like I said, I’m not defending tonight’s result, I just don’t understand why a better result in a tougher game doesn’t count. That’s the bit that baffles me. Forgive me if that’s “not a lot”.
Because we were expected to lose at southend, and i could have taken that, but we were playing the bottom team at home tonight and i fully expected us to win it, and if we have lost 3-0 tonight and southend was a tougher game then it makes us look even more pathetic.


Soooooo we won a game that you expected us to lose and lost a game you expected us to win but one doesn’t count and one does and somehow makes us look even worse

Riiiiiight.

Why don’t you say it like it actually is? Saturday “doesn’t count” because it wasn’t a result that allowed you to lay into the team/manager like tonight was? That’s all it seems to me

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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:23 pm

The man is a truly clueless Scunthorpe. Disastrous for the club not sacking him on so many levels

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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:28 pm

I will not make any secret of the fact that i do not want Whitney in charge of the team anymore, i will not make any secret that i do not want Bonser and any of his cronies to have anything more to do with the club, there you go El Nombre you have been proved right well done.

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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:31 pm

wednesburysaddler wrote:MESSAGE TO MR BONSER AND THE BOARD

I haven't renewed my season ticket yet.
if you don't get rid of this clown in charge of the team I will not be renewing
my name is barry Collins you can look me up on your database and youre more than welcome to come round and see me.
as youll see ive been a loyal fan for 30 years and most years ive had a season ticket.
my daughter doesn't wany to come anymore so you've already lost £69 quid as she spends the money you give her back in the ground
if by 31st march hes still in charge I also will not be renewing.
I may be only 1 voice but every 1 of me adds up.
you sack him I will renew immediately

ps mr whitney if you do take another job at another club I will personally drive you there and pay for all you food and drink on the journey


I took the same decision at the end of last season (at the risk of being accused of being a non-supporter after 40+ years)

I don’t regret it one bit because put simply, the club doesn’t deserve our support if it continues to treat fans like idiots.

I won’t criticise anyone for purchasing ST if that’s their choice and those that choose not to shouldn’t be accused of being second class fans for not doing so - I’ve said on other threads, if fans act (in anyway they choose fit) to show their discontent at the running and management of our club then ultimately things will change. Inaction in the vein hope of change is unlikely to affect anything at our club.....

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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:31 pm

A night best forgotten except the Board must take it into account in deciding whether JW should stay on beyond this season. The answer must be no...he admitted in his interview after the game that at least 2 players were not fit enough for tonight but he didn't change the team because it won so well on Saturday...well sorry JW that is your job and if they were fatigued you should have changed it!! The inexperience of the loanees was also a factor as I thought they contributed little. Not their fault they are very inexperienced at this level.
Finally a word for Rochdale as poor as we were they played some good stuff and I hope they survive.

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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:35 pm

These are the games that show JW is not a manager. Tactically he has nothing... Pure dogshit.

Also, be rude not to mention their third goal. Quality.
Last edited by kshammer on Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:36 pm

chunkster wrote:I will not make any secret of the fact that i do not want Whitney in charge of the team anymore, i will not make any secret that i do not want Bonser and any of his cronies to have anything more to do with the club, there you go El Nombre you have been proved right well done.


Fair enough. I’m all for saying what you mean I’m just not for BS arguments, like discounting results just because they don’t say what you want.

Because the problem with that, or banging on about pronouns in press conferences, or how he waived at the crowd, or using doom and gloom over the top hyperbole regarding the position of the club or supposing about man management skills non of us are privy too all water down the argument that I actually support. That he isn’t the man for the job. (I’m not accusing you of all of these I’m talking more generally).

If people stuck to the facts, like that we have clearly stagnated over two seasons, have no coherent strategy to build a team to push for promotion/play offs and a couple of genuinely puzzling team selections then more people might actually turn to that line of thinking. Maybe even a director or two.

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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:37 pm

Walsallone wrote:A night best forgotten except the Board must take it into account in deciding whether JW should stay on beyond this season. The answer must be no...he admitted in his interview after the game that at least 2 players were not fit enough for tonight but he didn't change the team because it won so well on Saturday...well sorry JW that is your job and if they were fatigued you should have changed it!! The inexperience of the loanees was also a factor as I thought they contributed little. Not their fault they are very inexperienced at this level.
Finally a word for Rochdale as poor as we were they played some good stuff and I hope they survive.


I respect your thoughts there and agree with almost all of them but I absolutely, definitely don’t want Rochdale to stay up (only if we go down) because they are without doubt (I could factually well wrong here) one of our biggest, longest standing, bogie sides (along with Bury of course!) :lol:

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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:40 pm

El_Nombre wrote:
chunkster wrote:I will not make any secret of the fact that i do not want Whitney in charge of the team anymore, i will not make any secret that i do not want Bonser and any of his cronies to have anything more to do with the club, there you go El Nombre you have been proved right well done.


Fair enough. I’m all for saying what you mean I’m just not for BS arguments, like discounting results just because they don’t say what you want.

Because the problem with that, or banging on about pronouns in press conferences, or how he waived at the crowd, or using doom and gloom over the top hyperbole regarding the position of the club or supposing about man management skills non of us are privy too all water down the argument that I actually support. That he isn’t the man for the job. (I’m not accusing you of all of these I’m talking more generally).

If people stuck to the facts, like that we have clearly stagnated over two seasons, have no coherent strategy to build a team to push for promotion/play offs and a couple of genuinely puzzling team selections then more people might actually turn to that line of thinking. Maybe even a director or two.
There you go we have found some common ground, i agree. i am just soooo pissed off with tonight's result maybe i just didn't express it in the correct way :wink:

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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:45 pm

chunkster wrote:
El_Nombre wrote:
chunkster wrote:I will not make any secret of the fact that i do not want Whitney in charge of the team anymore, i will not make any secret that i do not want Bonser and any of his cronies to have anything more to do with the club, there you go El Nombre you have been proved right well done.


Fair enough. I’m all for saying what you mean I’m just not for BS arguments, like discounting results just because they don’t say what you want.

Because the problem with that, or banging on about pronouns in press conferences, or how he waived at the crowd, or using doom and gloom over the top hyperbole regarding the position of the club or supposing about man management skills non of us are privy too all water down the argument that I actually support. That he isn’t the man for the job. (I’m not accusing you of all of these I’m talking more generally).

If people stuck to the facts, like that we have clearly stagnated over two seasons, have no coherent strategy to build a team to push for promotion/play offs and a couple of genuinely puzzling team selections then more people might actually turn to that line of thinking. Maybe even a director or two.
There you go we have found some common ground, i agree. i am just soooo pissed off with tonight's result maybe i just didn't express it in the correct way :wink:


Haha yet more common ground in being pissed off too. Disgraceful performance considering the opponent. I can handle being outplayed by a better team but tonight screamed of a team that thinks it’s done it’s job.

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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:46 pm

for the record id put john ward and chambers in charge until may and see whos about who we can afford

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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:52 pm

BONSER/GAMBLE, IF YOU WANT MY AND MY SON'S EARLYBIRD MONEY THIS MONTH THEN YOU NEED TO SACK THIS IDIOT NOW!

What an absolute shambles. Utterly pathetic, clueless dross. Not one redeeming feature.

Whitless talks on WM for 5 minutes and doesn't make one sensible comment. He just chats cack for the sake of saying something. A pissed up Merson made more sense.

It's gotta be the end surely?

WHITNEY OUT, BONSER OUT!

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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:19 pm

WELL! What can you say about that! Possibly THE most shameful performance I’ve seen in 40 years of watching the Saddlers and like everyone else in amongst some great times I’ve seen some real rubbish over the years as well.
Tonight, Dale looked every bit what their league position suggests, a very, very poor side. The fact that we failed to trouble them what so ever in every area of the pitch tells you just how bad that was.

In other seasons tonight would be written off as a bad day at the office but to do so would be a mistake and naive, there have been far too many below par performances this season to do that.

The focus of fans frustration with tonight’s performance will inevitably be on our under-pressure Manager but regardless of your views on Whitney to place the blame solely at his door would be unfair. Regardless of formation, tactics and team selection it is totally reasonable to expect the players to perform far, far better than that and they must shoulder some of the blame for tonight’s performance.

Having said all that the Manager has a couple of basic, core responsibilities, to assemble the best team they can within the constraints they must operate in and having done so through a combination of coaching, tactics, and motivation to get the best they can out of those players on a reasonably regular basis.

In the first respect I don’t think Whitney has done that badly; however, with regard to the 2nd aspect he has wholly and comprehensive failed. From what I’ve heard from many other fans I think that this more than anything is why there is such frustration and complete lack of belief in Whitney, most of us believe whilst not world beaters, the players we have are capable of much, much better than we are seeing on a regular basis.

I say this with no delight, as I as much as anyone wanted Whitney to succeed. I still have a lot of respect for Whitney, he has been a great, committed servant to the club for a good many years and I totally support the club in giving him the opportunity to progress into Management here. I want to see this sort of career progression opportunities at the club and I’m sure it helps attracts good people into the club and you can’t blame Whitney for wanting to pursue this; however, it has been clear for some time now that he has failed to make the transition successfully and is not the man to take us forward.
I can understand the club wanting to at least see the season out with him but despite our current points tally this still now must be seen as a risk.

In terms of next season the club are now asking us to commit to next season with the early bird offer. Many I’ve spoken to (Many long-term season ticket holders) are very undecided (though tonight may have made a few minds up). The concern here is the prospect of another year with what is obviously the wrong man to see out his contract to avoid the financial impact of a change. I would suggest that the financial impact of not changing could be far greater. I for one, after 40 years have now made my mind up and that is that my commitment to next season will match the club’s. To continue as-is is to ask us fans to commit individually hundreds of pounds and collecting hundreds of thousands of pounds for what will be seen by many as a write off season purely for contractual/financial reasons. I’m sure the likes of Stephan understand that fans can no longer be taken for granted in this way.

If the club show commitment to their stated aims and make a change to try and take us forward, I will renew and I’m willing to risk having to pay the higher price if that happens after March’ but if Whitney remains in charge I will not and will pick and choose games next season.

I’m sorry John, I wanted you to do well and backed the club in not making knee jerk reactions and giving you the time you deserved to try and make this work, but it hasn’t and a change needs to be made. I would love you to remain at the club but not in the role as Manager, but understand this would be difficult for you.
Last edited by Locky on Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:21 pm

I can’t face Salop away after tonight.
They have just got to Wembley as we suffered that shocker against the team bottom of the league.

The performance tonight was truly dreadful.The worst home display in years.

I’d sack him tonight and get in Grant McCann but can’t see it happening.

Shambolic. Utterly shambolic.

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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:24 pm

The Whitney reign: desperate hoofball crap for game after game, hard to see how we could ever score let alone win a game, he seems on brink of sack... somehow produce miraculous win playing excellent football in the game that is surely a must-win for him to stay in his job... go for 2 or 3 games playing OK... then back to desperate hoofball crap for game after game. Rinse and repeat.

We are no better than the first game of 2016/17. There has been no progression, no sign of any kind that he learns from his mistakes, no sign that any player is improving under his coaching, lots of signs that players are regressing.

A slightly asinine thing to say I know, but we would almost certainly have been relegated last season if we didn't have Oztumer. We would almost certainly be relegated this season if we didn't have Oztumer. Next season we won't have Oztumer. If we do still have Whitney... well, it won't affect me much because I ain't going to be going. First time since 1988, no season ticket for me next season if Whitney's still in charge.

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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:29 pm

So we win 3-0 away then lose 3-0 to the bottom team at home.
Most teams can beat most teams in the division, the difference is just what is in the players minds prior and during each game.
The 3-0 at Southend has bought JW some time but tonight's result has shown he can't get in the players minds consistently.
There would be other managers, in work and out of work who can.
The current story isn't good enough and what remains of the fanbase is far from happy, so can we try one of the others please?

Oh, and to miss a penalty when it could have been 1-2 is tragic.

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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:33 pm

This was an intolerable result, Rochdale ALWAYS give our teams a footballing lesson, the embarrassment goes on and on.
JB and your puppets, you have a decision to make tonight. Sack him now, or lose many of even your core support for a long, long time.
3 bloomin 0 at home to bottom of the league, that was one of the most appalling score lines I have witnessed in my 55+ years of watching Walsall, and I have obviously witnessed some shockers in my time.
I am known to be a moanin old git, but feel I am no longer alone, surely this has to be one of the low lights in our history?
Wigan and Salop to follow, so probably still on 44 points after that, and dropping close to the zone, 8 games to save our season, so, is Whitney the man to do that? I think not, but that's what will happen. :evil:

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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:35 pm

Having seen the third Rochdale goal I am disgusted with the defending. After a good turn he was allowed the fudge freedom of Walsall. We absolutely gifted them that goal.

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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:40 pm

What they were doing last three days? From good performance against Southend, to rubbish one today. Nothing worked, words can't describe this game. I think that was the worst game I've seen this season. Walsall didn't play, they stayed at the dresing room. I don't know how this was possible, what was said at halftime or before game. But I know, this game should be reminder, when after season someone start to praise manager. It's end and won't be better. One good result, later few bad and worse. Relegation form.

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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:41 pm

Just when you think we are making progress then we blow it with a pee-poor performance. I’m not a Whitney-out merchant but it’s difficult to see any real progress over the last two seasons. On paper we’ve had a decent looking team this season with some quality in Oztumer, Edwards, Dobson, Morris (on recent form), Tyler Roberts, Wilson and Ismail, yet we’ve struggled for most of the season with some truly terrible performances like tonight, Rotherham away and Newport in the FA Cup. Could a different manager have melded these players into a more effective team? Probably. But who could we have got with our budget? And who could we get now? And what success can we reasonably expect with crowds of around 4,000? If we’re not careful, we’re going to go into a spiral of decline similar to Tranmere, Orient and the like: can we really attract a quality replacement if we sack Whitney to prevent this?

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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:47 pm

Well, that was ... :oops: :oops: :oops:

Fair play to Rochdale, who played like a team with something to prove.

We on the other hand ... Oh yes, the penalty was a blatent dive, so justice was served in that regard.

Hopefully there will be a magnificent reaction against Slophamptonshire.

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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:34 am

Highlights from Sky.

We were all over them between their first and second goals...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1s54LhZ ... p=drivesdk

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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:39 am

scott_powell wrote:Having seen the third Rochdale goal I am disgusted with the defending. After a good turn he was allowed the fudge freedom of Walsall. We absolutely gifted them that goal.


A shocker.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1s54LhZ ... p=drivesdk

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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:06 am

I’ve just read JW’s post match comments - some of his quoted content given that he’s our manager and an experienced physio and fitness coach are basically astounding:

Leggy
Lethargic
A game too far
Hadn’t got the legs

All stirred into an unbelievable admittance that he ‘expected it’ !!!!

Beyond the obvious questions of why did you approach the game that way then Jon is the total and inexcusable lack of leadership by the club to allow this man to continue to manage and represent our football club

He then admits we knew how Rochdale would approach and play the game - we’ll im sorry mate but if you knew all that why did we lose 0-3?

To lose if too many of the players can’t manage a full 90minutes after the weekend, you can excuse I guess (we do have a relatively small squad etc etc etc.) but to perform almost completely inadequately in almost every position on the pitch against a very poor team is unacceptable and shows a complete lack of preparation and game management

The guy is a nice fella and a good servant to the club - these facts are clear and we all know it but equally and on balance (maybe this will help the club with their statement later today) DESPITE THIS, HE HASNT MADE THE TRANSITION INTO MANAGEMENT AS EFFECTIVELY AS WE WOULD HAVE HOPED....

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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:00 am

We are within a couple of wins of safety.

If/when we get to 52 points we should negotiate a settlement with him that sees him leave after the last game of the season.

I think he would get a decent reception at Fleetwood on that last day as we could all now take stock of a dozen years service and give him a send off that in the round he probably deserves. I think that would actually mean a lot to him. It would also give the club time to openly seek a replacement who could have the summer to rebuild in their image.

If his ego prevented him seeing it through to the end of the season then you just pot him as soon as we’re safe and have the role caretakered until the summer.

Either way, he can’t be our manager on the opening day of 2018/19.

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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:19 am

PT wrote:We are within a couple of wins of safety.

If/when we get to 52 points we should negotiate a settlement with him that sees him leave after the last game of the season.

I think he would get a decent reception at Fleetwood on that last day as we could all now take stock of a dozen years service and give him a send off that in the round he probably deserves. I think that would actually mean a lot to him. It would also give the club time to openly seek a replacement who could have the summer to rebuild in their image.

If his ego prevented him seeing it through to the end of the season then you just pot him as soon as we’re safe and have the role caretakered until the summer.

Either way, he can’t be our manager on the opening day of 2018/19.


Good post PT but I'm not certain (with respect) that in reality, that is really feasible...

In general in todays employment environment, people, staff, employees (whichever word you use to frame the individual concerned) rarely do what is right for the overall situation (unless they can well afford to and the job itself means nothing to them) - what moreoften happens is that they do what's right for them as an individual.

Effectively this means that a settlement to JW would mean the club paying up his contract (lets face it and be honest, that's what most folk WOULD do in the situation.) Therefore, it wouldn't be a 'negotiation' as such, it would be purely limited to the conventional, 'this is the end of the road discussion' with the board and him then asking to be paid off (in full, I expect) if they want him to depart....

The only other options are a resignation (I doubt that will happen) or a dismissal (as you suggest)...

Finally, whilst I agree totally with your final point - he simply CANNOT be our manager next season - In reality, the Fleetwood scenario (whilst a great outcome for all in a perfect world) is highly unlikely....

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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:20 am

Good post PT....that must be the way forward. I also agree with COOP's post above...the match at Peterborough in the snow and the one at Southend had obviously taken a lot out of certain players as he admitted after the game so changes should have been made...I know we have a very young and inexperienced squad but whose fault is that? Who knows if Cuvelier has started and one or two of the younger lads brought in to give us some energy we might have done better...at least then he could have said I had to make some changes because of fatigue if things had gone wrong.

Walsallone
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Re: Rochdale (H) Tue 6th Mar, 7.45pm

Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:23 am

I was referring, of course, to COOP's last but one post in my post.

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