Blackpool (A) 10th Feb, 3pm

[Ancient Moaner]

Poor quality game. They were probably the better side to be fair, which says a lot.

Delfounso the one quality player on the pitch. Leahy couldn’t get near him.

I think we could get dragged into it. We’re poor. No lack of effort. Felt a bit sorry for the lads at the end as they put in a right old shift on a very heavy pitch. But we lack quality and always look like conceding.

Have to agree totally, we are incredibly poor defensively, Even though we went ahead, they always looked capable of scoring...and did, when he scored the goal he could have been standing hailing a taxi for the amount of time he was afforded to tap in the equalizer.
Then when we went ahead again you just knew they would equalise, indeed we were VERY lucky to come away with that point as they bombarded our goal in the last few minutes. Delfounso (or whatever his name is was by far THE quality player on the pitch today.)
Very disappointed with that display, lets hope some of the poorer teams that we face in the next few games have off days, cus we are an utterly poor team at present, we lack cohesion, our attacks are telegraphed and lacking penetration. We will most certainly need to gain some points from these matches, otherwise we really WILL be dragged in to the zone. Lets hope Blackpool DO get deducted that 10 points for insolvency, they may well do a 'Plymouth' for us to escape the drop.
And of course.....who was right about Bakayoko being chosen YET AGAIN up front, yes he runs around a lot but is dreadfully ineffective, couldn't strike a match.

[hullsaddler]

As for the draw, nothing wrong with it. Draw away win your home still remains.

Old school thinking from the days of 2 points for a win and 1 for a draw. the majority of successful teams have excellent away records.

Having said that though ...... wins at home and draws away will bring 92 points over a season....... :wink:

Oddly today 5 away wins, 5 draws and only 1 home win which was Southend 3 Wigan 1... which I would have thought was fairly unpredictable.

[saddlersjse]

They were for the taking today. Blackpool only had a couple of good players really, one of which was Delfouneso. Other than that it's two points dropped for me. We are shocking defensively, three clean sheets in 30 games now. Thought Blackpool were going to nick it at the end to be honest. Agyei almost made an instant impact too.

For a stadium that has all of its stands built in the last 10 years the place looks a right state. Rust everywhere and I half expected to look down and see weeds and moss around my feet. Just goes to show what the Oystons have done to the place.

Hope the guy who fell at the back of the stand near me and smacked his head is OK. Looked spaced out when he was carried out.

We really do have some fudge morons in our fanbase though.

[vorny]

Hope the guy who fell at the back of the stand near me and smacked his head is OK. Looked spaced out when he was carried out.

You mean Yga Kev?

[El_Nombre]

As for the draw, nothing wrong with it. Draw away win your home still remains.

Old school thinking from the days of 2 points for a win and 1 for a draw. the majority of successful teams have excellent away records.

Tally that points total up over a season. There’s nothing wrong with draw away wins at home. It would be promotion or play offs at least in most years.

In fact tally that up for the rest of the season and see how safe we would be.

Obviously nobody is going to actually go a whole season doing that but a similar points tally and performance week in week out will see you with a nice points total end of the season.

[scott_powell]

Whitney Out

[Mike Vale]

Scrappy game. Not many plus points - except the point of course. Thought Guthrie was good and pleased for him for his goal. I am not happy with our full backs I regret to say .Delfounseo was very good for them and their Birmingham loanee Otabor is decent - he played well against us for Bolton last season. A couple of players for us to hunt maybe. Each to their own of course but a large percentage of our supporters were very inebriated and not very pleasant.

[SoccerHQ]

Poor quality game. They were probably the better side to be fair, which says a lot.

Delfounso the one quality player on the pitch. Leahy couldn’t get near him.

I think we could get dragged into it. We’re poor. No lack of effort. Felt a bit sorry for the lads at the end as they put in a right old shift on a very heavy pitch. But we lack quality and always look like conceding.

Poor enough to still be Franchise just last week. Poor enough to go to Doncaster and win 3-0. Poor enough to beat Oldham etc.

Generally if you think up points from teams around and below you you're not going down.

Not that it's much cause for celebration mind.

Whole club is just drifting currently.

[saddlertd]

Poor quality game. They were probably the better side to be fair, which says a lot.

Delfounso the one quality player on the pitch. Leahy couldn’t get near him.

I think we could get dragged into it. We’re poor. No lack of effort. Felt a bit sorry for the lads at the end as they put in a right old shift on a very heavy pitch. But we lack quality and always look like conceding.

Poor enough to still be Franchise just last week. Poor enough to go to Doncaster and win 3-0. Poor enough to beat Oldham etc.

Generally if you think up points from teams around and below you you're not going down.

Not that it's much cause for celebration mind.

Whole club is just drifting currently.

“Generally if you THINK up points from teams around and below you you're not going down.” If only it were that easy! I’m visualising a win on Tuesday- that should do it!

[El_Nombre]

Whitney Out

Is anybody Whitney in at this stage?

[PT]

Poor quality game. They were probably the better side to be fair, which says a lot.

Delfounso the one quality player on the pitch. Leahy couldn’t get near him.

I think we could get dragged into it. We’re poor. No lack of effort. Felt a bit sorry for the lads at the end as they put in a right old shift on a very heavy pitch. But we lack quality and always look like conceding.

Poor enough to still be Franchise just last week. Poor enough to go to Doncaster and win 3-0. Poor enough to beat Oldham etc.

Generally if you think up points from teams around and below you you're not going down.

Not that it's much cause for celebration mind.

Whole club is just drifting currently.

Hope you’re right pal. Blackpool were better than us today. We scored with our only two efforts on target. We cleared three off the line.

The club is drifting as you say.

[Guest]

Almost lost it at the end.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RC4ipw ... p=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WI6iVS ... p=drivesdk

[SoccerHQ]

Have to say Agyei did very well for the second goal. There's a player there that was shown in glimpses here.

Back 4 was very ponderous though. Is the Polish guy going to be fit for Tuesday?

[SoccerHQ]

Poor quality game. They were probably the better side to be fair, which says a lot.

Delfounso the one quality player on the pitch. Leahy couldn’t get near him.

I think we could get dragged into it. We’re poor. No lack of effort. Felt a bit sorry for the lads at the end as they put in a right old shift on a very heavy pitch. But we lack quality and always look like conceding.

Poor enough to still be Franchise just last week. Poor enough to go to Doncaster and win 3-0. Poor enough to beat Oldham etc.

Generally if you think up points from teams around and below you you're not going down.

Not that it's much cause for celebration mind.

Whole club is just drifting currently.

Hope you’re right pal. Blackpool were better than us today. We scored with our only two efforts on target. We cleared three off the line.

The club is drifting as you say.

Missed opportunity for them though. They last won a game on New Years day. Before that 18th November. So two league wins in over three months. They've got Wigan away next week.

I'd be very surprised if they're not bottom 4 end of season.

[scott_powell]

Whitney Out

Is anybody Whitney in at this stage?

Yes

[PT]

Whitney Out

Is anybody Whitney in at this stage?

Yes

Who?

The way we tried to see the game out yesterday was typical of our current cluelessness.

Their second goal actually began with a free kick to us - wide right, five yards inside their half. The complete lack of planning came to the fore. In that position you either go for the third and load the box or you play for time and keep possession. We did neither. A hopeful lob into a box with just one Walsall player who at best might have flicked it on for a goalkick. As it happens, our cunning plan was so blinking obvious their goalie knew what we were trying and the slightly over hit free kick was comfortable. One long kick, three seconds , three touches and at least two more mistakes later it is 2-2.

It is inept. That ineptitude is the responsibility of Whitney. Yesterday actually had lots of “passion and energy”. You can’t fault them for that. But unlike our manager I don’t believe that is ever enough as those ten seconds I describe above demonstrate.

[Walsallone]

Good point PT.....what you describe is inept game management. I know we have a young and very inexperienced team but that sort of thing is basic stuff. It is the reason that I came to the conclusion that it was time for him to go a few weeks ago...he simply isn't improving. I was all for giving him a chance but I presume he will go at the end of the season wherever we finish.

[Optimistic]

Whitney Out

Is anybody Whitney in at this stage?

I say give him more time and I don't understand all the negativeness over this match. His decisions were fine regarding team selection and tactics. It was never going to be easy with the conditions and the style of direct play you get under those sort of conditions and we always struggle. We are better on good ground playing a passing game which most people prefer and if you bring in players who can do that they will struggle on heavy ground. Maybe there were some poor individual decisions but its a young team and the manager can work on that but not during a match.

As for all the Whitney out chants during a match all it does is encourage the opposition team and fans. I still think we will finish top half and if I am right I think that is a fair result this season. If I am wrong and we go down then I will decide then what I think but not after every game depending on the result.

A 2-2 draw away at Blackpool under those conditions and calls for Whitney out, sorry but I don't get it.

[El_Nombre]

Whitney Out

Is anybody Whitney in at this stage?

I say give him more time and I don't understand all the negativeness over this match. His decisions were fine regarding team selection and tactics. It was never going to be easy with the conditions and the style of direct play you get under those sort of conditions and we always struggle. We are better on good ground playing a passing game which most people prefer and if you bring in players who can do that they will struggle on heavy ground. Maybe there were some poor individual decisions but its a young team and the manager can work on that but not during a match.

As for all the Whitney out chants during a match all it does is encourage the opposition team and fans. I still think we will finish top half and if I am right I think that is a fair result this season. If I am wrong and we go down then I will decide then what I think but not after every game depending on the result.

A 2-2 draw away at Blackpool under those conditions and calls for Whitney out, sorry but I don't get it.

Right I’ll preface this by saying I have absolutely no problem with an away draw either I think it’s perfectly reasonable, and I also think the crowd have been overly negative from minute one especially in away games.

But Whitney in/out is so much bigger than one game. What on Earth has he done to suggest he needs more time than the 706 days he’s already been given? A man with a 35 percent win ratio whose had two whole summers to build his own team?

[saddlersjse]

Whitney Out

Is anybody Whitney in at this stage?

I say give him more time and I don't understand all the negativeness over this match. His decisions were fine regarding team selection and tactics. It was never going to be easy with the conditions and the style of direct play you get under those sort of conditions and we always struggle. We are better on good ground playing a passing game which most people prefer and if you bring in players who can do that they will struggle on heavy ground. Maybe there were some poor individual decisions but its a young team and the manager can work on that but not during a match.

As for all the Whitney out chants during a match all it does is encourage the opposition team and fans. I still think we will finish top half and if I am right I think that is a fair result this season. If I am wrong and we go down then I will decide then what I think but not after every game depending on the result.

A 2-2 draw away at Blackpool under those conditions and calls for Whitney out, sorry but I don't get it.

Right I’ll preface this by saying I have absolutely no problem with an away draw either I think it’s perfectly reasonable, and I also think the crowd have been overly negative from minute one especially in away games.

But Whitney in/out is so much bigger than one game. What on Earth has he done to suggest he needs more time than the 706 days he’s already been given? A man with a 35 percent win ratio whose had two whole summers to build his own team?

Concur. Two and half years is more than enough time when things are demonstrably getting worse. I also agree about the fans - there were sections of the young vocal element near me yesterday who were singing "give us a wave" about 10 minutes in at 0-0 just so they could hurl abuse at him if he did (which he wouldn't, which also got him abuse.)

This isn't, wasn't and will never be about just one match. This is the whole. He cannot be here next season. We need to make sure we stay up and then put this whole experiment behind us and put everyone out of their misery, including Jon. He's had his opportunity and sadly it's not worked out and we passed the point of no return almost 12 months ago, in my opinion.

[Ancient Moaner]

Just a follow up point to our predicament, how come Oldham can obtain a REAL striker from Wolves on loan..Nozan, a genuine hustler who scored for them yesterday at Blackburn, how WE could do with a proper target man who actually knows where the net is!
We get stuck with two kids, neither of whom greatly impressed yesterday, who both seem no better than Bakayokonogoals.

[Walsallone]

They might have said the same last week...Ngoy scored after 3 minutes of coming on!! I did comment that both the new lads looked raw!!! I am very careful not to judge players too early .....I made that mistake 30 years ago with a certain Dave Bamber :D

[El_Nombre]

Just a follow up point to our predicament, how come Oldham can obtain a REAL striker from Wolves on loan..Nozan, a genuine hustler who scored for them yesterday at Blackburn, how WE could do with a proper target man who actually knows where the net is!
We get stuck with two kids, neither of whom greatly impressed yesterday, who both seem no better than Bakayokonogoals.

Wow. One of them scored within 3 minutes of coming on last week. Have a bit of patience before writing our players off, Jesus.

If we'd signed Nazon you'd have probably been saying the same thing after one goalless performance. All three are young players of very much the same grain on loan from clubs in a division higher. Hadn't scored in two appearances before this weekend. Wonder why you weren't crying about him before :roll:

[PT]

I agree about our away support. Traditionally it was always the most positive sub-set of our fanbase, now the most negative. Travelling across the country to hurl abuse at your own manager and team. Don’t get it myself.

The team is poor, the manager poorer but that shouldn’t translate into matchday atmospheres that act as a drag on the team’s limited potential.

[Optimistic]

Whitney Out

Is anybody Whitney in at this stage?

I say give him more time and I don't understand all the negativeness over this match. His decisions were fine regarding team selection and tactics. It was never going to be easy with the conditions and the style of direct play you get under those sort of conditions and we always struggle. We are better on good ground playing a passing game which most people prefer and if you bring in players who can do that they will struggle on heavy ground. Maybe there were some poor individual decisions but its a young team and the manager can work on that but not during a match.

As for all the Whitney out chants during a match all it does is encourage the opposition team and fans. I still think we will finish top half and if I am right I think that is a fair result this season. If I am wrong and we go down then I will decide then what I think but not after every game depending on the result.

A 2-2 draw away at Blackpool under those conditions and calls for Whitney out, sorry but I don't get it.

Right I’ll preface this by saying I have absolutely no problem with an away draw either I think it’s perfectly reasonable, and I also think the crowd have been overly negative from minute one especially in away games.

But Whitney in/out is so much bigger than one game. What on Earth has he done to suggest he needs more time than the 706 days he’s already been given? A man with a 35 percent win ratio whose had two whole summers to build his own team?

What he has done to need more time using your statistics is have a win ratio of 35% compared to the following:

Dean Smith 32.31%
Chris Hutchings 31.63%
Colin Lee 32.76%

This is about average for Walsall managers although I realise that we have had better and worse. I don't think he deserves the abuse and I think we should wait until the end of the season and decide how he has done then. As for players from Wolves if I was the Wolves Manager I don't think I would want my young players at Walsall with the way some of our fans treat young players or Wolves players, the combination is worrying.

[Cowshed]

Whitney Out

Is anybody Whitney in at this stage?

Yes

Who?

The way we tried to see the game out yesterday was typical of our current cluelessness.

Their second goal actually began with a free kick to us - wide right, five yards inside their half. The complete lack of planning came to the fore. In that position you either go for the third and load the box or you play for time and keep possession. We did neither. A hopeful lob into a box with just one Walsall player who at best might have flicked it on for a goalkick. As it happens, our cunning plan was so blinking obvious their goalie knew what we were trying and the slightly over hit free kick was comfortable. One long kick, three seconds , three touches and at least two more mistakes later it is 2-2.

It is inept. That ineptitude is the responsibility of Whitney. Yesterday actually had lots of “passion and energy”. You can’t fault them for that. But unlike our manager I don’t believe that is ever enough as those ten seconds I describe above demonstrate.

Dilemma for the decision makers though

There are a few managers still looking up the league at Whitney who are quality managers at this level

[SoccerHQ]

I agree about our away support. Traditionally it was always the most positive sub-set of our fanbase, now the most negative. Travelling across the country to hurl abuse at your own manager and team. Don’t get it myself.

The team is poor, the manager poorer but that shouldn’t translate into matchday atmospheres that act as a drag on the team’s limited potential.

Doncaster away was one of the most surreal football match atmospheres I've ever heard.

3-0 up and still singing for Whitney to leave. At least that's being consistant I guess.

[El_Nombre]

Whitney Out

Is anybody Whitney in at this stage?

I say give him more time and I don't understand all the negativeness over this match. His decisions were fine regarding team selection and tactics. It was never going to be easy with the conditions and the style of direct play you get under those sort of conditions and we always struggle. We are better on good ground playing a passing game which most people prefer and if you bring in players who can do that they will struggle on heavy ground. Maybe there were some poor individual decisions but its a young team and the manager can work on that but not during a match.

As for all the Whitney out chants during a match all it does is encourage the opposition team and fans. I still think we will finish top half and if I am right I think that is a fair result this season. If I am wrong and we go down then I will decide then what I think but not after every game depending on the result.

A 2-2 draw away at Blackpool under those conditions and calls for Whitney out, sorry but I don't get it.

Right I’ll preface this by saying I have absolutely no problem with an away draw either I think it’s perfectly reasonable, and I also think the crowd have been overly negative from minute one especially in away games.

But Whitney in/out is so much bigger than one game. What on Earth has he done to suggest he needs more time than the 706 days he’s already been given? A man with a 35 percent win ratio whose had two whole summers to build his own team?

What he has done to need more time using your statistics is have a win ratio of 35% compared to the following:

Dean Smith 32.31%
Chris Hutchings 31.63%
Colin Lee 32.76%

This is about average for Walsall managers although I realise that we have had better and worse. I don't think he deserves the abuse and I think we should wait until the end of the season and decide how he has done then. As for players from Wolves if I was the Wolves Manager I don't think I would want my young players at Walsall with the way some of our fans treat young players or Wolves players, the combination is worrying.

Hold on a second, Colin Lee was in a different league for a start. Fighting relegation, which those stats are, in the Championship and in League one are a different kettle of fish.

Chris Hutchings was one of the worst managers I've ever seen so I wouldn't be using him for comparison for why Whitney deserves more time.

And Dean Smith's is low because for a lot of that time he was fixing Hutching's disaster (and by the way, most people were calling for his head at the lower end of that scale too).

Besides I didn't quote those stats to compare him to other managers, I quoted them because winning a third of your games is enough for bottom half of League one at best, if that's what people are happy with then fair enough.

[Optimistic]

The thing is El_Nombre we all have different opinions and I was just sharing mine. Everything is relative and I could argue that managers who got us out of League 2 did not count because it was a lower league but that would be wrong to do. With regards to Smith I also supported him in the early days because I saw something that some others did not. The same happened with Sawyers who I thought was quality after his first couple of games.

I may be wrong about JW or I may be right and time will tell but Jon has had a lot less games than Smith so based on that comparison we would also have got rid of Smith after 100 games and that would have been a mistake. The chance that we will bring a good manager in is a lot less than bringing a poor one in so I think that we are better off with the devil we know at the moment rather than the devil we don't know. We need to get behind him and the team rather than keep trying to influence decisions, particularly if the ones doing it are under the influence themselves..

[El_Nombre]

The thing is El_Nombre we all have different opinions and I was just sharing mine. Everything is relative and I could argue that managers who got us out of League 2 did not count because it was a lower league but that would be wrong to do. With regards to Smith I also supported him in the early days because I saw something that some others did not. The same happened with Sawyers who I thought was quality after his first couple of games.

I may be wrong about JW or I may be right and time will tell but Jon has had a lot less games than Smith so based on that comparison we would also have got rid of Smith after 100 games and that would have been a mistake. The chance that we will bring a good manager in is a lot less than bringing a poor one in so I think that we are better off with the devil we know at the moment rather than the devil we don't know. We need to get behind him and the team rather than keep trying to influence decisions, particularly if the ones doing it are under the influence themselves..

Absolutely, which is why I said if you are happy with that fair enough. I'm not. That's my opinion.

You absolutely can argue that. In fact I would. But as I said I wasn't making a comparison. Whitney has only played in League one and that is his record. As you keep bringing up Smith, the main difference was that there was a steady improvement in performances from the Hutchings era, which is why people like yourself wanted to give him time. We absolutely cannot say that about Whitney. It's demonstrably worse.

I really don't understand that? Why is it a better chance we bring in a worse manager than Whitney?