AFC Wimbledon (A) 25th Nov, 3pm

[Paulus68]

Any reports of a good defensive performance are vastly over exaggerated

We were on the back foot from the moment we scored the second goal, and they tore us apart pretty much at will.

It was only thanks to a healthy slice of luck, some poor finishing, a lot of penalty box pinball and one or two last ditch challenges that we didn’t concede again.

Whitney’s celebration at the end was just cringeworthy - that was a skin of the teeth victory against a bottom 6 side - if that’s where we’ve set the bar for success and cause of raucous celebrations and final whistle bear hugs, I’m worried.

By all means celebrate a victory, but you’ve also got to admit we were second best for most of the game today - were it not for an error by their keeper, it would’ve been a different story

Have I missed something? Has the result been overturned?

[SaigonSaddler]

A "cringeworthy celebration' says a poster.....yet another crime committed by JW!!!!!! What the hell is the matter with some of our supporters? is he not supposed to celebrate when we win?

LOL No comment!

:wink:

[philthesaddler]

A "cringeworthy celebration' says a poster.....yet another crime committed by JW!!!!!! What the hell is the matter with some of our supporters? is he not supposed to celebrate when we win?

When the manager in question has singularly failed to ever admit his tactics and organisation might be the root of our problems, to celebrate a minor victory like a promotion is cringe worthy, yes.

I would rather have a manager who did his passionate speaking and passionate actions behind closed doors in getting our players drilled, defending properly and keeping the occasional clean sheet ya know? Rather than doing this faux “this means the world to us all” after a minor, minor victory.

Where was the passion at Newport? Where the fudge was the passion at Newport? No fudge where. He fudge hid like a wimp then blamed his players. Today he made a show of his passion - it’s almost as tho this “passion” stuff is all bullshit, it’s all a show, and is his only recourse given his lack of managerial ability. You can lose a game but as long as you showed passion, that’s all that matters to Jon Whitney - that’s why when we actually win a game he’s keen to show it.

Like I said, I’d rather have a grumpy manager that never smiles, never waves, but is not inept

[SaigonSaddler]

#Passion

[hullsaddler]

I think if I'd been a Wimbledon supporter I would have come away from that wondering how they didn't come away with something from the game, They were dominant in the 2nd half and we were pretty lucky not to concede. I think if they had equalised they would have gone on to win it, but who cares it was great to see us hang on for the 3 points. Look forward to seeing again Oztumer's brilliant effort exploiting their goalkeeper's lapse & the build up to our second as well.
God it was cold though.

[El_Nombre]

Amazed that people in this thread are surprised we came under some pressure away from home against a team that looks like it will be in a relegation scrap. Obviously we did we’d already scored two in a game they probably saw as must win.

Also amazed that you can deny a team on the front foot for an entire half and it still not count as good defending. Ok. Like I say good job we’d already scored two by then.

As for his antics at the end is it a surprise? Most of you have probably been hurling abuse at him for months. He’s probably elated and rightfully so.

[Tom_1992]

Classic away performance for the first 25/30 minutes with Ismail, Oztumer and T.Roberts all looking dangerous. After that, it was pretty much one-way traffic until about 80 minutes with Wimbledon going very direct and exposing the dreadful Leahy on a number of occasions. After that they ran out steam and were met by Kory Roberts (what a player he is going to be) and Jon Guthrie, who actually had a decent game for a change.

In the end though, they didn’t have the quality to finish off their numerous chances and we got a win that probably could and should have been a draw.

Great defensive performance? No.

Poor finishing from opposition and individual brilliance from Oztumer (again). Yes.

Shout out to Chambers as well, back to his best today.

[Walsallone]

I think some people's hatred (I use that word advisedly) is clouding their judgement of the team. We are solidly mid table with a young and inexperienced team. Rather than berating the Manager(who I have doubts about) lets celebrate the emergence of some our own...Kinsella,Roberts (L),Roberts(K),Bakayoko and one or two others who have played bit parts in or season. When we play Scunthorpe I hope everyone will get behind the team and leave the Manager alone whatever the result.

[Whitters]

Any reports of a good defensive performance are vastly over exaggerated

We were on the back foot from the moment we scored the second goal, and they tore us apart pretty much at will.

It was only thanks to a healthy slice of luck, some poor finishing, a lot of penalty box pinball and one or two last ditch challenges that we didn’t concede again.

Whitney’s celebration at the end was just cringeworthy - that was a skin of the teeth victory against a bottom 6 side - if that’s where we’ve set the bar for success and cause of raucous celebrations and final whistle bear hugs, I’m worried.

By all means celebrate a victory, but you’ve also got to admit we were second best for most of the game today - were it not for an error by their keeper, it would’ve been a different story

Have I missed something? Has the result been overturned?

Maybe Phil can pop down to the Besla and give JW a few choreography tips.
Phil could teach him different celebrations depending on the result: "an easy win"; "a skin-of-the teeth lucky win"; "an unlucky deflection loss"; "a the ref was shocking loss" - you get the picture....

[philthesaddler]

I think some people's hatred (I use that word advisedly) is clouding their judgement of the team. We are solidly mid table with a young and inexperienced team. Rather than berating the Manager(who I have doubts about) lets celebrate the emergence of some our own...Kinsella,Roberts (L),Roberts(K),Bakayoko and one or two others who have played bit parts in or season. When we play Scunthorpe I hope everyone will get behind the team and leave the Manager alone whatever the result.

I’m the first to celebrate our youth. For example, I’ve spent a lot of time this season defending Morris from the morons that slag off a player being played out of position in a team where movement isn’t part of the lexicon.

Bakayoko I’m afraid hasn’t got it. His movement is simply not good enough - he doesn’t use his physical attributes at all either. He’s 6ft what? 3/4? He rarely wins a header, rarely holds up the ball - as such Whitney resorts to using him on the wing, and Roberts up top. Conversely, their respective talents would see them the other way round.

Kinsella, I’m still undecided about. I’m
Inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt for the moment. Not sure he’s got what it takes as a full back, maybe he’s better in midfield, but we never get to see him there.

As for Kieron Roberts, I think he’s a talented lad, said it before, he reads the game well, but needs someone next to him, someone experienced, someone level headed, like erm, I dunno, James O’Connor?

I’ll feel free to judge the manager because I genuinely think he’s hampering the progress of the aforementioned 3 through his total lack of organisation

[WalsallMem]

I’ll feel free to judge the manager because I genuinely think he’s hampering the progress of the aforementioned 3 through his total lack of organisation

You mean those very same 3 years of 'progress' where you continually called for Smiths head.

You sir, are a complete and utter idiot :lol:

[swampysaddler]

http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sp ... -2-walsall

[philthesaddler]

I’ll feel free to judge the manager because I genuinely think he’s hampering the progress of the aforementioned 3 through his total lack of organisation

You mean those very same 3 years of 'progress' where you continually called for Smiths head.

You sir, are a complete and utter idiot :lol:

For 2 or more years we made no progress under Smith.

What he did - admittedly with the benefit of hindsight - is put in place a blueprint, a way of playing.

Let’s not forget we had huge long winless runs under Smith.

What happened was that Smith got lucky - he won the lottery of getting a number of players getting to a critical mass all at the same time.

Bradshaw, Sawyers, Forde, Mantom, Chambers and OConnor all has been at the club for a while, but all had their best season in 15/16. All of these had had pretty up/down times at the club. Bradshaw for example showed promise in his first season, but also frustrated many.

In addition, he made a couple of canny signings which paid off - Lalkovic and Demetriou for example.

Furthermore, he had the luck of having IMO two of the best players ever to come thru the ranks in Henry and Morris.

All of that culminated in a single season - more by luck than judgment.

What Smith deserves credit for is his blueprint and organisation - but without the flair and emergence of attacking skill and guile of Bradshaw and Sawyers, and the solidity of JD and Forde, and the youthful exuberance of Henry and Morris, 15/16 would’ve just been another season of mid table frustration under Smith. Nor shall we forget some of the dross Smith signed.

Bottom line is that at Walsall we can’t afford to have a manager who turns a team in to less than the sum of its parts - which is what Whitney is currently doing. Graydon succeeded because he took a group of individuals and made them a team - Smith managed that to an extent, but lucked out on several risks paying off in a single season.

[JonnyOwen]

A very good hardworking team performance today from all the lads, and I've got to give credit to Jon Whitney too. We defended well for large parts of the game with Kory Roberts and Jon Guthrie winning everything, both were fantastic. Full backs were fairly steady with Chambers doing his usual best of sweeping up in midfield. Both Oztumer, Morris, Baka and Tyler ran their absolute bollocks off but were fairly ineffective on the ball, especially second half. But we pressed, defended as a unit and got ourselves two goals ahead by a fantastic trademark Ozzy thunderbolt and a lovely bit of one and one skill, pace and delivery from Ismail, who has had a fantastic few games now, for Bakayoko's goal. That was the kind of goal that Bakayoko doesn't do enough of, the dirty bit of harrying and muscling defenders but he read it and scored to fair play to him. Technically we weren't at it, but the stereotypical Whitney "passion" crap was actually surprisingly fully there and it got us over the line.

Also i've got to say, and I hate to criticise our own fans, especially since I have also have many criticisms for Whitney recently - but fudge me is it getting boring. Chanting Whitney out before a match, during a match and even when we've won a match. Then booing and heckling our own players, annoyingly shouting "Jon" for 45 minutes to annoy Whitney and make their mates laugh, shouting abuse at Sharps, and then going on twitter and sending angry messages to our own players even after a win... It's embarrassing to be associated with certain fans at this point, it's hard to wonder why players and staff leave so hastily when they're subjected to that. I have no issue with wanting Whitney out, I still want him out too, but give him cack when we're losing and playing cack. Not before a match and definitely not during a match when we're not losing. It doesn't help OUR players perform and do well for OUR club. It also breaks the player/fan bond that makes football feels so much more personal and special, and having a group of fans booing them, shouting crap at them, or sending them shite on Twitter feels like it is ruining that.

I'm still Whitney out but that was a solid win, and credit to him and the players for that.

[SoccerHQ]

Interesting stuff Jonny, sounds very much like the negative atmosphere at Donny.

Will be popping down to Northampton so hope it's more positive then but fear not if the Scunny result is as bad as usual.

[JonnyOwen]

Interesting stuff Jonny, sounds very much like the negative atmosphere at Donny.

Will be popping down to Northampton so hope it's more positive then but fear not if the Scunny result is as bad as usual.

Yep I was at Donny too, very similar to that. Seemingly it felt like the fan base was split down the middle again (almost literally like at Donny).

[Guest]

A very good hardworking team performance today from all the lads, and I've got to give credit to Jon Whitney too. We defended well for large parts of the game with Kory Roberts and Jon Guthrie winning everything, both were fantastic. Full backs were fairly steady with Chambers doing his usual best of sweeping up in midfield. Both Oztumer, Morris, Baka and Tyler ran their absolute bollocks off but were fairly ineffective on the ball, especially second half. But we pressed, defended as a unit and got ourselves two goals ahead by a fantastic trademark Ozzy thunderbolt and a lovely bit of one and one skill, pace and delivery from Ismail, who has had a fantastic few games now, for Bakayoko's goal. That was the kind of goal that Bakayoko doesn't do enough of, the dirty bit of harrying and muscling defenders but he read it and scored to fair play to him. Technically we weren't at it, but the stereotypical Whitney "passion" crap was actually surprisingly fully there and it got us over the line.

Also i've got to say, and I hate to criticise our own fans, especially since I have also have many criticisms for Whitney recently - but fudge me is it getting boring. Chanting Whitney out before a match, during a match and even when we've won a match. Then booing and heckling our own players, annoyingly shouting "Jon" for 45 minutes to annoy Whitney and make their mates laugh, shouting abuse at Sharps, and then going on twitter and sending angry messages to our own players even after a win... It's embarrassing to be associated with certain fans at this point, it's hard to wonder why players and staff leave so hastily when they're subjected to that. I have no issue with wanting Whitney out, I still want him out too, but give him cack when we're losing and playing cack. Not before a match and definitely not during a match when we're not losing. It doesn't help OUR players perform and do well for OUR club. It also breaks the player/fan bond that makes football feels so much more personal and special, and having a group of fans booing them, shouting crap at them, or sending them shite on Twitter feels like it is ruining that.

I'm still Whitney out but that was a solid win, and credit to him and the players for that.

Good post, JonnyOwen.

[Whitters]

[quote="JonnyOwen"
Also i've got to say, and I hate to criticise our own fans, especially since I have also have many criticisms for Whitney recently - but fudge me is it getting boring. Chanting Whitney out before a match, during a match and even when we've won a match. Then booing and heckling our own players, annoyingly shouting "Jon" for 45 minutes to annoy Whitney and make their mates laugh, shouting abuse at Sharps, and then going on twitter and sending angry messages to our own players even after a win... It's embarrassing to be associated with certain fans at this point, it's hard to wonder why players and staff leave so hastily when they're subjected to that. I have no issue with wanting Whitney out, I still want him out too, but give him cack when we're losing and playing cack. Not before a match and definitely not during a match when we're not losing. It doesn't help OUR players perform and do well for OUR club. It also breaks the player/fan bond that makes football feels so much more personal and special, and having a group of fans booing them, shouting crap at them, or sending them shite on Twitter feels like it is ruining that.

Good post, JonnyOwen.[/quote]
A friend of mine is a WFC fan too.
He has this theory that the standard deviation curve doesn't apply when the club is down to rock-bottom support.
In other words, he feels that when we are down to around 3,000 fans there is a larger percentage of loonies attending.
The same number but percentage-wise larger and therefore more likely to be heard.
He also feels that the lower division supporter by his/her nature anyway is a little left of centre, bordering on having issues.
Not my theories, but I've given some thought to them and maybe there's some truth there.

[Guest]

Walsall's resurgence continues. (Channel 5)

https://youtu.be/guqKXmT1CJ8





If blocked on YouTube

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1k4Q7lP ... p=drivesdk

[Exile]

Lovely goals. Happy with that.

[moaning saddler]

I’ll feel free to judge the manager because I genuinely think he’s hampering the progress of the aforementioned 3 through his total lack of organisation

You mean those very same 3 years of 'progress' where you continually called for Smiths head.

You sir, are a complete and utter idiot :lol:

Watching the usual cretins shouting “Fudge Off, Whitney” after an away win, the bloke next to me said “I think that one is philthesaddler, the guy who is always right even when he is wrong”.
If it wasn’t a case of fake news, then you appear to be spot on in your assessment.

[Mazza01]

Where I'm not a fan of Whitney , I think he's earnt himself some more time and rightly so.

Good result UTS.

[Walsallone]

good post JONNYOWEN......how sad it is that people have so little in their lives that they get a kick out of abusing the manager and the team. I think they need help as they clearly have problems. In fact all it is doing is strengthening JW s position as some of us who have doubts feel that he has handled the situation bravely as have the team. They deserve support and I hope that in the next home game that those of us who have had enough of the moronic behaviour stand up for the lads....indeed most of the team are just lads!!!! . What must they think about some of our fans?

[Optimistic]

good post JONNYOWEN......how sad it is that people have so little in their lives that they get a kick out of abusing the manager and the team. I think they need help as they clearly have problems. In fact all it is doing is strengthening JW s position as some of us who have doubts feel that he has handled the situation bravely as have the team. They deserve support and I hope that in the next home game that those of us who have had enough of the moronic behaviour stand up for the lads....indeed most of the team are just lads!!!! . What must they think about some of our fans?

I can answer that one for you Walsallone.

I know a premiership footballer who has dropped down to the championship as he is coming to the end of his career but he could definitely do a job for the Saddlers with his skill & pace. I suggested that we will have to get him to Walsall next and he said "no chance, I know what the fans are like, I have watched mates play there and I have seen them myself". He actually named a couple of instances so I knew he was talking facts.

So if these so called fans think that they are influencing decisions they could be right. But not in a good way, in a very bad way, how many potential players and managers think like this guy. No wonder we think it strange when we can't get a player we are after and they go to Oldham for example. They call for 'Whitney out' but what manager with any quality will actually want the job to try and satisfy these numpties.

[Soton Saddler]

good post JONNYOWEN......how sad it is that people have so little in their lives that they get a kick out of abusing the manager and the team. I think they need help as they clearly have problems. In fact all it is doing is strengthening JW s position as some of us who have doubts feel that he has handled the situation bravely as have the team. They deserve support and I hope that in the next home game that those of us who have had enough of the moronic behaviour stand up for the lads....indeed most of the team are just lads!!!! . What must they think about some of our fans?

I can answer that one for you Walsallone.

I know a premiership footballer who has dropped down to the championship as he is coming to the end of his career but he could definitely do a job for the Saddlers with his skill & pace. I suggested that we will have to get him to Walsall next and he said "no chance, I know what the fans are like, I have watched mates play there and I have seen them myself". He actually named a couple of instances so I knew he was talking facts.

So if these so called fans think that they are influencing decisions they could be right. But not in a good way, in a very bad way, how many potential players and managers think like this guy. No wonder we think it strange when we can't get a player we are after and they go to Oldham for example. They call for 'Whitney out' but what manager with any quality will actually want the job to try and satisfy these numpties.

Some really excellent posts here, makes me feel embarrassed to be a Walsall fan to be honest.
Same fans shouting abuse all day long, criticising the players for not celebrating with them when they score. Why would they?
Same fans losing their minds when the players dare to leave the club (backwards step, they'll be on garbage heap, money grabbing, no loyalty).

A lot of us need a reality check. Jon Whitney isn't doing the worst job in football history. He does not deserve the abuse he's getting. The players regardless of what a lot of this board think aren't getting paid enough to deal with this nonsense.
In my opinion we're exactly where we've been for the whole of our history and if anything we look more likely to be around the playoffs than relegation fodder.

And the rest of the footballing land, if they're bothered enough to care, laugh at our lack of support for our team and superiority complex.

Well done Whitney, well done players - keep it up.

[Tom_1992]

Genuine question for those having a moan at the ‘Whitney outers’. Would you rather they flipped their thoughts on the manager on a result by result basis? A lot of those fans will have watched some utter rubbish over the last 18 months and will have formed some pretty well informed opinions on the manager in that time, 2 wins shouldn’t change those views and if it did then they would surely lose credibility and be labelled as fickle?

Personally, I applauded the players yesterday and didn’t acknowledge the manager, as they were the ones who really dug in yesterday.

If people want him out then they’re fully entitled to express that view at the match, just as people who want him to stay are entitled to theirs. Just because you want him to stay doesn’t make you a better supporter or make those who want him out a “numpty” it’s just a difference of opinion that is understandable considering our ridiculous inconsistency under JW.

[Cowshed]

good post JONNYOWEN......how sad it is that people have so little in their lives that they get a kick out of abusing the manager and the team. I think they need help as they clearly have problems. In fact all it is doing is strengthening JW s position as some of us who have doubts feel that he has handled the situation bravely as have the team. They deserve support and I hope that in the next home game that those of us who have had enough of the moronic behaviour stand up for the lads....indeed most of the team are just lads!!!! . What must they think about some of our fans?

I can answer that one for you Walsallone.

I know a premiership footballer who has dropped down to the championship as he is coming to the end of his career but he could definitely do a job for the Saddlers with his skill & pace. I suggested that we will have to get him to Walsall next and he said "no chance, I know what the fans are like, I have watched mates play there and I have seen them myself". He actually named a couple of instances so I knew he was talking facts.

So if these so called fans think that they are influencing decisions they could be right. But not in a good way, in a very bad way, how many potential players and managers think like this guy. No wonder we think it strange when we can't get a player we are after and they go to Oldham for example. They call for 'Whitney out' but what manager with any quality will actually want the job to try and satisfy these numpties.

If he feels that his position has become untenable then if I were Whitney I would start to gather evidence towards a case of taking legal action against the club. Surely as an employer they are now failing in their legal duty to provide a safe and fair working environment for an employee. Some of the treatment he is getting is crossing the line and his employers are allowing it to happen .

[Mazza01]

Whitney will never win over the supporters it's all gone a little far now.

Unfortunately the club stil need to get rid.

[Optimistic]

For anyone who thinks that people are having a moan at 'Whitney outers' I don't think that's whats happening and certainly not in my case.

People are moaning about the 'support' being offered by certain fans and particularly at away games. If its true that the fans can be the twelfth man with good vocal support then it must be right that the 'support' offered by some is like having a man sent off at every away game.

You can voice your opinion as much as you like on here because that's what a forum is for, but at games there is no point turning up if you are a true supporter and do not offer support as all you do is get the club a bad reputation. If that's not a numpty what is.

As for being too late for Whitney that cannot be true. What happens if he got us to Wembley, what happens if he got us into the play offs or even the championship. Even if we finish in the top half or top ten that's not failure. The main definition of failure in football is surely relegation and we do not appear to be in danger of that at present. Don't get me wrong I am not a massive 'Whitney in' fanatic I just have an open mind at the moment because it can go either way.

I know he has made mistakes but a man who has never made a mistake has never done anything!

[ShyTallKnight]

I always said JW is a genius :mrgreen: