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Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Reports and reaction from the 2017-2018 season as Walsall finished 19th in League 1
swampysaddler
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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:56 pm

Walsallone wrote:Some people seem to want my views on that...well we were very poor. The goal was a joke and was made by a number of errors from our players.
The mistakes started before we kicked off ....yet another change in formation...no wonder the players were so bad in the first half...no one seemed to know what they were doing.
I will reiterate a point I have made many times before players at our level are not good enough for the Manager to keep changing systems. As Ray Graydon said at his first meet the Manager evening.."We will play a 4-4-2 formation and you won't find me changing that"..Now the formation does not need to be 4-4-2 but it should be the same each week.
I fear for us at Newport next week(I cannot believe I have just typed that!) and if we lose I think that JW is very much on borrowed time.Today showed that we are not getting better and although some of us are more patient than others even my patience is wearing thin.


Fair play Walsallone.
In another comment you say the next few games are important for survival.
So on that going how long do you think we give Mr Motivator ?
Newport ? Newport and another couple of games ? P45 first thing Monday morning ?

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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:37 pm

As long as we are outside the bottom 4 the changing of the manager is unlikely to happen until early birds are due to be sold as such a change may provide incentive to renew at THAT time. A change in manager now would incur compensation and the replacement may not improve things in time for the early birds. IMO


I thought we had more balance and an outlet to get the ball forward in a more controlled way when Ismail played on right side and Morris on left.

Don't think either side today will go up or go down and it was a poor game

I enjoyed Tyler Roberts turn that took out 2 defenders 1st half

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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:46 pm

Very poor performance, despite what Jon Whitney says. In fact, I'm not sure what game he was watching.

As others have said - from the team selection, to the last minute, it's a shambles.

Once again a change of formation, no Kory Roberts, no Agyei, no Cuvelier.

As a result we had no width, and with Bakayoko really struggling upfront, we couldn't even begin to play because nothing was sticking.

The whole point of playing 5-3-2 is that it allows your wing backs to bomb on - but Leahy and Kinsella had very quiet games, in fact Demetriou had so much time and space he was playing as an inside forward for large sections of the game.

Then, brain-of-britain Whitney decides to make a change, taking off Leahy and replacing him with Morris - not changing the formation, just putting at attacking midfielder at left-back, and in doing so, making it very difficult to go 4-4-2 later in the match, cos he'd just taken off one of his 2 full-backs.

10 minutes later, he decides to go 4-4-2 by taking off Wilson and bringing on Ismail, and finally, with some true width on the field, Southend had some defending to do.

Bottom line is that in 90 minutes we didn't really test their keeper - he made 2 routine saves in the first half, both from Roberts, both straight at him, and then in the second half his first save was in the 89th minute, and again, it was a pretty straight forwad save, just tipping over a shot.

Whitney has several problems

- he's built a squad that's unbalanced, we are very weak in central midfield, and only have 2 recognised wingers
- he's built a squad with a lot of loanees, who don't care whether Jon Whitney keeps his job or not
- he's got no idea how to organise a defence, he's been through something like 9 centre halves in the last 18 months, and his clean sheet statistics are shocking
- he cannot spot issues in games - today it was crying out for some width, for us to match Southend as 4-4-2, it took him 75 minutes
- because he can't spot issues in games, he can't make a positive impact. Had he made the change to 4-4-2 at half time today, we'd have probably won

He's just not the man to take this club forward, I don't know how long it's going to take the club to finally realise, but I don't think it's far off

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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:01 pm

Remember that our number 1 fan recognised true talent in giving Whitless a 3 year contract. Perhaps a critical observer might have thought about the 1st leg of the Barnsley playoff and the need of actually being in contention for the 2nd leg? Personally, I can't recall more than a rolling 1 year for top notch managers such as Graydon/Lee/Smith so why Whitless deserved the protection personally beats me.

I'd imagine that Moles et al reads these threads, so if you actually want to have a non-disasterous advance season ticket sales early next year, tell your master that he needs to dispose of this clown.

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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:04 pm

I sit just to the right of where Bonser sits. Second half and it looked like Jackson was coming on. Bonser got out of his seat went straight to Cutts who watched the game from the stand , had a word then low and behind the Jackson was sat down and s different sub made with even Baka coming off. Few minutes later Cutts , Sharp and JW on touch line talking. Never seen that before and I see it as Bonsor knowing crowd would go ape if Roberts came off for Jackson .
I think he wants to pull the trigger but doesn't want to pay him off

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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:47 pm

Dire today, have watched a team to lose being in the Championship by one point, in the 18 months Whitney has been in charged, he has proven he is tactless, no knowledge how to change a game or whom to select. But he proved that at the play offs when we got hammered by Barnsley
How much longer? One poster says Bonser will not act till early bird renewal if we are not in the bottom four, many games like today it will not be long.
Agyei and Roberts will be gone in January and we will have nothing left upfront. A cold winter beckons

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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:13 am


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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:11 am

Guest wrote:Poor defending for their goal.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1yWD- ... p=drivesdk

2 good chances to get a win there!

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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:35 am

Just a quick line to confirm Bonser now telling Cutler/Whitney what to do. It's embarrassing.

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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:45 am

Walsallone wrote:Some people seem to want my views on that...well we were very poor. The goal was a joke and was made by a number of errors from our players.
The mistakes started before we kicked off ....yet another change in formation...no wonder the players were so bad in the first half...no one seemed to know what they were doing.
I will reiterate a point I have made many times before players at our level are not good enough for the Manager to keep changing systems. As Ray Graydon said at his first meet the Manager evening.."We will play a 4-4-2 formation and you won't find me changing that"..Now the formation does not need to be 4-4-2 but it should be the same each week.
I fear for us at Newport next week(I cannot believe I have just typed that!) and if we lose I think that JW is very much on borrowed time.Today showed that we are not getting better and although some of us are more patient than others even my patience is wearing thin.


Wow, we must have been bad, thanks for the honesty mate. The fact that OUR team are becoming the 'drop like a stone'
statistic of the Division hurts like a stab to the heart (Despite Yoda's comments). The poster commenting that Bonser was 'interfering' with matters, points to the fact that he may be running out of patience. If he's not gone on Monday, a loss at Newport will be his death knell, regrettably that may also mean another failure to make a cup run in an already dead season.

So whatever happens, please let us at least beat Newport on Saturday, would be good to be in the hat again.

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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:57 am

Ancient Moaner wrote:
Walsallone wrote:Some people seem to want my views on that...well we were very poor. The goal was a joke and was made by a number of errors from our players.
The mistakes started before we kicked off ....yet another change in formation...no wonder the players were so bad in the first half...no one seemed to know what they were doing.
I will reiterate a point I have made many times before players at our level are not good enough for the Manager to keep changing systems. As Ray Graydon said at his first meet the Manager evening.."We will play a 4-4-2 formation and you won't find me changing that"..Now the formation does not need to be 4-4-2 but it should be the same each week.
I fear for us at Newport next week(I cannot believe I have just typed that!) and if we lose I think that JW is very much on borrowed time.Today showed that we are not getting better and although some of us are more patient than others even my patience is wearing thin.


Wow, we must have been bad, thanks for the honesty mate. The fact that OUR team are becoming the 'drop like a stone'
statistic of the Division hurts like a stab to the heart (Despite Yoda's comments). The poster commenting that Bonser was 'interfering' with matters, points to the fact that he may be running out of patience. If he's not gone on Monday, a loss at Newport will be his death knell, regrettably that may also mean another failure to make a cup run in an already dead season.

So whatever happens, please let us at least beat Newport on Saturday, would be good to be in the hat again.


The way to beat Newport is to sack Whitney tomorrow and put Ward in temporary charge, getting the 'sacked manager bounce'. Getting the odd win here or there which keeps Whitney in place is just prolonging the agony.

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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:52 am

No discernible system,players unable to do the basics.desperately poor central midfield with no "legs" or creativity.As a result defenders have few controlled forward moving options and there is no decent service to the forwards.Yesterday it was only when Ismail and Morris came on that we asked Southend some questions..We play different systems and players every week.
The responsibility for this lies with the manager.

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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:58 am

Well, that sounded dreadful.

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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:26 am

SaigonSaddler wrote:Well, that sounded dreadful.

It was dreadful, we've gone from playing the same system every week under Smith (when at times it needed a bit of shaking up) to a different system every week. We ended the match yesterday with one full back, 2 centre half's, 2 centre midfielders, 2 wingers and 2 forwards. There didn't seem any thought into the line-up and formation, it was desperation to get Zele on.
I'd be giving Liam Roberts a chance in goal as well, Gillespie isn't commanding enough and doesn't organise his defence.
Yesterday was a clear indication that Whitney didn't know what to do to make a change that would have an impact. I remember Keegan resigning from the England job after admitting he didn't know what to do next to make things better during a game. An honourable man.

Keegan, 49, who took the job only last year, took full responsibility for the defeat. He said: "I have had all the help I have needed but I have not been quite good enough. It's the end of the road for me.I have wished all the players the best and I know it's not good timing but there's never a good time. I look forward to life outside football."

Keegan said that before the match he had thought that he might resign if England lost. He said: "I feel I have had more than a fair chance. I have no complaints against the media. There's no one to blame for myself. I am not the man to take it a stage further and I know that."

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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:41 am

I’m glad some of the Happy Clappers are finally coming round to our thinking and seeing what we’ve seen coming for a while. The man is a joke of a manager, a complete fraud.

Throw enough shite at a wall and some will stick. That’s literally all Whitney’s done during his entire tenure as manager. He was constantly changing the systems last season until Sheffield United at home, matched up to them and we won. He then kept that system but other teams adapted so we were back to square one!! Back to throwing shite against a wall. He is absolutely clueless. Tactically inept playing some of the worst football since Dogface (I actually think it’s worse).

It simply cannot continue and he needs to go now! If I was shite at my job I’d get the sack, same applies here.

This is indefensible. The patronising stick poking attitudes of the happy clappers last week is nowhere to be seen on here and social media today. Soton Saddler, where are you? Stay under your rock.

Whitney OUT. NOW.

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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:12 am

scott_powell wrote:I’m glad some of the Happy Clappers are finally coming round to our thinking and seeing what we’ve seen coming for a while. The man is a joke of a manager, a complete fraud.

Throw enough shite at a wall and some will stick. That’s literally all Whitney’s done during his entire tenure as manager. He was constantly changing the systems last season until Sheffield United at home, matched up to them and we won. He then kept that system but other teams adapted so we were back to square one!! Back to throwing shite against a wall. He is absolutely clueless. Tactically inept playing some of the worst football since Dogface (I actually think it’s worse).

It simply cannot continue and he needs to go now! If I was shite at my job I’d get the sack, same applies here.

This is indefensible. The patronising stick poking attitudes of the happy clappers last week is nowhere to be seen on here and social media today. Soton Saddler, where are you? Stay under your rock.
w
Whitney OUT. NOW.

I'm not a fan of the term 'happy clappers' as it denigrates their viewpoint as being irrelevant and something to be mocked. I view those people as being temperate and patient and willing to give JW an opportunity to improve - I think that they have seen that this might not be the case and are adjusting their views accordingly. I've been listening to debates on WM about Tony Pulis and Steve Bruce, there are those who want them both gone and those who are advocating give them more time. The other point that is always raised is 'who are you going to get in to replace them?' Well, that isn't our job and we never really know who's interested, I do think that someone who could organise us and play to a consistent system could do very well with this group of players especially if they added a decent central midfielder to the squad.

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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:32 am

layzeedude wrote:With Franchise, Donny and Sarfend coming up he's got to be looking at these as winnable games. Fewer than 5pts from these 3 and I can't see even the most optimistic fans putting up with any more of this.


3 games and 4pts later...yeah, he's tried but it got to be time for some change. I've not been to the games but it sounds like things just aren't working. I can understand giving JW more time if we were playing well but just getting unlucky, but it sounds like there's zero positives to take.

Sorry John. Wish you all the best but let's call it a day.

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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:57 pm

Ancient Moaner wrote:
(Despite Yoda's comments).


Hey man, my post was never meant with any malice. Like I said, it was an honest question rather than a 'jab' or point scoring.

I spend less time on this forum because of this 'with us or against us' mentality that groups everyone into 2 camps. Despite the fact everyone seems to agree it's not good enough at the moment, the forum seems to be looking for reasons to argue.

I thought it was a fair question based on the fact that the 3 posts you made since half-time all referenced 'the other side' (ie the camp that you see as disagreeing with you). As you get older your priorities change (I now have pastimes I enjoy more than watching Walsall fc) and I'm just trying to gauge how much of the board these days is here to argue and how much is here to constructively talk Walsall Fc. I apologise if this offended you in some way.

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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:03 pm

3 games and 4pts later...yeah, he's tried but it got to be time for some change. I've not been to the games but it sounds like things just aren't working. I can understand giving JW more time if we were playing well but just getting unlucky, but it sounds like there's zero positives to take.

Sorry John. Wish you all the best but let's call it a day.


You lucky sod, I have!!

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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:05 pm

yoda wrote:
Ancient Moaner wrote:
(Despite Yoda's comments).


Hey man, my post was never meant with any malice. Like I said, it was an honest question rather than a 'jab' or point scoring.

I spend less time on this forum because of this 'with us or against us' mentality that groups everyone into 2 camps. Despite the fact everyone seems to agree it's not good enough at the moment, the forum seems to be looking for reasons to argue.

I thought it was a fair question based on the fact that the 3 posts you made since half-time all referenced 'the other side' (ie the camp that you see as disagreeing with you). As you get older your priorities change (I now have pastimes I enjoy more than watching Walsall fc) and I'm just trying to gauge how much of the board these days is here to argue and how much is here to constructively talk Walsall Fc. I apologise if this offended you in some way.


Good post Yoda - I’m fed up of the personal differences dominating the core issues... folks will disagree in any forum activity but it seems some are more fussed with their personal spats when someone disagrees with them rather than the issue the thread was started to debate.... UTS

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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:21 pm

SaigonSaddler wrote:Well, that sounded dreadful.

The party's over – it's time to call it a day.
Sorry Jon but we have been more than patient seeing the steady decline in organisation and quality in 2017 so that now we look and play like a team from the Bloxwich Combination with constant changes in formation and in personnel and the worst leaky defence we have had for quite some time. And that's forgetting the penalty count which is embarrassing.
We are not a hire and fire club and many of us are proud of that compared to some clubs. Equally the methodology of promoting from within is and was a good trait to have and the fans initially bought into that this time as well at the beginning with Whitney.
But, as in life, taking a job that you cannot do will always end in tears. In my opinion that was clearly the case as we saw things nosedive in the final months of last season and I am convinced that if there had been another 6 matches to play from May we would have been relegated. That was when the Board really should have acted and changed things and given someone else the close season to bring in players to form a good unit.
Just like Shrewsbury have done.
Don't get me wrong – we have some decent players in the squad and probably two of the best in the Division in Tyler Roberts and Ozzy. The latter two will be off in January if we carry on like this of course. We also fall out with Jim O'Connor and Laird behind the scenes and (whilst they are not the best defenders in the world) they were better than some of what we have now and importantly they were passionate about the club. Man management!!
The performances are now turgid and disorganised and are bad enough for Radio WM (Wolves Media) reporters to call us “third in a two horse race” on our in-game management.
If it is true that JB was there for the shoddy awful showing against Southend and indeed intervened to wake up Whitney on substitutions as reported by some then JW surely is already on thin ice. That must be true also for Sharps who is responsible also and particularly so for the defensive horrors.
If, as I hope, something happens quickly and things change then I personally hope that Neil Cutler stays. He is no doubt a very good goalkeeping coach as his track record shows. He could perhaps even act in an interim role as the Boss?
I am sure that the club recognise the passion and knowledge of members of this Board at UTS.
Why not send an email to Stefan Gamble to tell him just how you feel? It might just make the difference if he hears directly your views. I have found that he always responds.

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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:28 pm

The term 'happy clapper" is used to denigrate those views that do not correspond to the majority view on here which I am not sure is reflected by the majority of fans.It is a rather silly term and says more about the posters who use it than the rest of us. I am a supporter of the club and the team and am experienced enough(sorry SWAMPY) to know when it is time for a managerial change. I have been really disappointed with our last 2 home games and in the season so far results have not been too bad but our performances seem to be getting worse and that is my concern. Yesterday was a shambles and reminded me of some of the games under Merson . I think JW probably has next week to start to sort things out and if the Blackburn game is postponed I think the Gillingham ,Fleetwood and Wimbledon games will be decisive.
I hope however that in all those games the fans support the team as they did yesterday as the players we currently have will be largely those we need to get us up the table when this era ends.

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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:38 pm

scott_powell wrote:I'm only replying. I won't be contributing once this thread dies don't you worry.


From the Doncaster thread.

So what happened? Oh, we lost.

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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:44 pm

Guest wrote:
scott_powell wrote:I'm only replying. I won't be contributing once this thread dies don't you worry.


From the Doncaster thread.

So what happened? Oh, we lost.


The performance was awful so i felt the need to comment.

Why should I justify posting to you anyway?

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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:49 pm

Whitters wrote:
Guest wrote:Poor defending for their goal.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1yWD- ... p=drivesdk

2 good chances to get a win there!


And no 'hoofball' to be seen in those 50 seconds or so. :shock:

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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:58 pm

scott_powell wrote:
Guest wrote:
scott_powell wrote:I'm only replying. I won't be contributing once this thread dies don't you worry.


From the Doncaster thread.

So what happened? Oh, we lost.


The performance was awful so i felt the need to comment.

Why should I justify posting to you anyway?


It's more your comments about not posting that I'm interested in.

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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:01 pm

Guest wrote:
Whitters wrote:
Guest wrote:Poor defending for their goal.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1yWD- ... p=drivesdk

2 good chances to get a win there!


And no 'hoofball' to be seen in those 50 seconds or so. :shock:


Two minutes of 'action' here.

https://youtu.be/b_-pdY0_J0s


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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:07 pm

Guest wrote:
scott_powell wrote:
Guest wrote:
scott_powell wrote:I'm only replying. I won't be contributing once this thread dies don't you worry.


From the Doncaster thread.

So what happened? Oh, we lost.


The performance was awful so i felt the need to comment.

Why should I justify posting to you anyway?


It's more your comments about not posting that I'm interested in.


Again, I don’t need to justify anything to you.

Have a nice evening

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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:19 pm

From the footage a draw would have been a fair result :|

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Re: Southend United (H) League One, 28th Oct 3pm

Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:23 pm

Have only just had time to post on here, probably just as well as my language last night wouldn't have been pleasant.

Absolute disgrace, really really awful.

Forget these (increasingly) rare wins that keep him in a job for another few weeks. I'm fed up of "perhaps this win is the start of turning the corner" posts. NO, he's not good enough and never will be. Finish this NOW.

One thing that annoyed me is a couple of weeks ago Whitney pleaded with the fans not to take it out on the players (which we weren't anyway) but wait till the end of the game and give him the abuse. He even indicated that he would be happy to come over to the fans and take the flak. In the main I thought the anti Whitney chants during the game were kept to a minimum. What happened at the final whistle then? Whitney stood statue still in the technical area for about a minute and then scurried off down the tunnel. Where was the coming to face the fans Whitney? The one thing I didn't think you were was a coward!

WHITNEY OUT.

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